Bad on Paper Podcast: June 2025 Three Things Episode Summary

Released on June 4, 2025

In the June 2025 episode of Bad on Paper, hosts Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter delve into their personal experiences, discuss industry insights, and engage in lively conversations about books and current events. Structured around the "Three Things" format, the episode offers a rich tapestry of discussions, punctuated with memorable quotes and thoughtful reflections.

1. Personal Highs and Lows

The episode kicks off with Becca and Olivia sharing their personal highs and lows for the week, setting a relatable and authentic tone.

• Becca's Highs and Lows

  • High: Recharging her social battery after feeling drained, leading to productive work sessions on her manuscript.
    • Becca Freeman [01:10]: “I’m getting closer to that running downhill feeling. So I’m almost in the pocket.”
  • Low: Managing her energy levels and balancing social engagements with work commitments.

• Olivia's Highs and Lows

  • High: Returning to work on her third book after a hiatus, achieving significant progress.
    • Olivia Muenter [03:26]: “So I too, am feeling zesty in a way now.”
  • Low: Navigating health anxiety following a dermatologist appointment and the uncertainty of potential medical results.
    • Olivia Muenter [05:22]: “I have this band aid on my face now because, of course, the spot is in essentially the center of my face. So it's a little embarrassing.”

2. Industry Insights: Taylor Jenkins Reid’s Phenomenal Success

Becca introduces a detailed discussion on a recent Time article titled "How Taylor Jenkins Reid Became a Publishing Powerhouse," highlighting the remarkable aspects of Reid's career and publishing deals.

• Massive Book Deals

  • Olivia [13:14]: “Six book deal, $8 million a book. Is that... is that the numbers?”
  • Becca [13:22]: “Five books, millions of books, pennies. How do you feel about that?”

  The hosts express awe at the scale of Reid's deals, contemplating the implications for both authors and publishers. They debate the sustainability and fairness of such lucrative agreements, questioning how these deals impact other authors and the broader publishing ecosystem.

• Career Trajectories

  • Becca [14:31]: “It almost makes me feel good to know that the bar could get that high. Like, that's exciting.”
  • They emphasize the importance of persistence in the writing career, noting that Reid's success was built over several books, challenging the notion that top authors achieve fame overnight.

• Personal Reflections

  • Olivia [17:05]: “I love knowing that even the best authors, like they all improve. You know, there's room for improvement.”
  • The conversation shifts to the pressures Reid faces, including being compared to literary giants like Jonathan Franzen and the emotional toll of public expectations.

3. Business Spotlight: Hailey Bieber’s $1 Billion Sale of Rhodes Elf Cosmetics

The hosts pivot to a discussion about Hailey Bieber's business move to sell her cosmetics brand, Rhodes Elf, reportedly valued at $1 billion.

• Valuation and Equity Concerns

  • Olivia [32:05]: “I have a strong reaction to the number one billion. Am I glad that there's a woman getting a billion dollars somewhere out there?”
  • Becca [33:02]: “It's based on like the brand equity and potential future sales.”

  They analyze the feasibility of the $1 billion valuation, questioning the actual financial gains Bieber would receive versus the company's total valuation. The conversation highlights the complexities of business valuations and the impact of celebrity endorsements on brand worth.

• Market Implications

  • Becca [33:31]: “If you're selling 2,000 to 3,000 books a week, you're selling 100 to 150,000 books a year. Like, that is big success.”
  • Drawing parallels to the publishing industry, Becca and Olivia discuss how substantial sales figures can translate to significant success, whether in cosmetics or literature.

4. Language Learning with Duolingo

Becca shares her experience with Duolingo, raising questions about the effectiveness of language learning apps in real-world retention and conversational skills.

• Effectiveness and Retention

  • Becca [35:13]: “I sometimes will feel like I don't remember things and then they'll make their way into my dreams.”
  • Olivia [36:04]: “But I think, I think you could understand.”

  The hosts explore the strengths and limitations of Duolingo, pondering whether the app fosters genuine language proficiency or merely trains users to perform well within the app's structured environment.

• Supplementary Learning Methods

  • Olivia [37:10]: “The only solution I know of to find this out is spending a summer in France.”

  They conclude that immersion and real-life practice are crucial for achieving true fluency, emphasizing that apps like Duolingo are valuable tools but should be complemented with other learning strategies.

5. Book Battle Game

In a spirited segment, Becca and Olivia engage in a "Book Battle," comparing their favorite books from the past two years through a series of matchups.

• Matchup Highlights

  • Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros vs. First Lie Wins by Ashley Elston
    • Becca [43:17]: “I think Fourth Wing, because anything that keeps me up until three in the morning, that's just like.”
  • Yous Again by Kate Goldbeck vs. The Bodyguard by Katherine Senner
    • Becca [44:14]: “I would have to go with Yous Again by Kate Goldbeck.”

  The game showcases their diverse reading tastes, with each host defending their choices based on personal connection, genre preference, and emotional impact.

6. Podcast Longevity and Industry Trends

Becca initiates a discussion on the challenges facing independent podcasts, noting a trend of similar shows discontinuing their runs.

• Advertising Landscape Changes

  • Becca [51:17]: “There are fewer advertisers and a lot of money is going to the very top of the podcast landscape.”
  • She shares that her podcast experienced a 15% revenue drop compared to the previous year, highlighting the shifting dynamics in podcast advertising.

• Community and Intangible Benefits

  • Olivia [56:03]: “I think of it as this little bit of... there are intangibles to it.”

  Despite financial challenges, both hosts emphasize the non-monetary value of their podcast, including community building, personal connection, and support for their writing careers. They express confidence in their podcast's enduring relevance and the strong relationships they've cultivated with their audience.

7. Personal Obsessions

The hosts share what they’re currently obsessed with, adding a personal touch to the episode.

• Olivia’s Obsession

  • Olivia [68:17]: “I am obsessed with author Coco Mellers who wrote Cleopatra and Frankenstein.”

  She admires Mellers' style, fashion, and writing, expressing a desire to emulate her aesthetic and creativity.

• Becca’s Obsession

  • Becca [69:31]: “I'm obsessed with the Wacol red carpet strapless bra... the best strapless bra I've ever owned.”

  She praises the bra's comfort and fit, highlighting its impact on her wardrobe and confidence.

8. Book Choices and June Book Club

The episode concludes with the hosts discussing their current reading selections and announcing the June book club pick.

• Olivia’s Reading

  • Olivia [73:11]: Discusses Cleopatra and Frankenstein by Coco Mellers, highlighting its engaging narrative and emotional depth despite a seemingly unappealing premise.

• Becca’s Reading

  • Becca [74:35]: Shares her disappointment with the second installment of Filthy Rich Fae, deciding to discontinue reading it in favor of other interests.

• June Book Club Pick

  • Olivia [75:24]: Announces All the Other Mothers Hate Me by Sarah Harmon as the June book club selection, describing it as a hilarious mystery with a blend of humor and suspense.

Notable Quotes

• Olivia Muenter [37:21]: “The fluent foreign language speakers are gonna have to tell us.”
• Becca Freeman [57:45]: “I feel more confident taking risks... we can have a really interesting conversation with.”

Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Becca and Olivia offer listeners a blend of personal anecdotes, insightful industry analysis, and engaging literary discussions. Their candid conversations about challenges and successes provide a relatable and inspiring narrative for aspiring writers and avid readers alike. The episode wraps up with a sense of community and anticipation for future discussions, leaving listeners eager for the next installment.

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