November 2024 Three Things

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bad On Paper – November 2024 Episode "Three Things"

Released on November 6, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Bad On Paper, hosts Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter navigate the post-election stress by delivering a lighthearted and engaging conversation focused on three main topics. Aiming to provide listeners with escapism and fun, they steer clear of election-related discussions, instead opting to dive into their personal highs and lows, favorite TV shows, upcoming holiday movies, festive decorations, and current reading trends among college students.

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Highs and Lows

Highs:

• Olivia's Highlight ([01:05]): Olivia shares her delight in hosting a book fair event at a Hudson Valley brewery. She praises the event’s ambiance, the camaraderie with fellow authors, and the beautiful weather. Enthusiastically, she mentions plans to expand the event next year:

  "I saw a bunch of people I don't usually see who were other authors at the event or just friends in the area... I think we are gonna do the book fair again next year and expand on it and hopefully make it even better." ([01:16])

• Becca's Highlight ([02:08]): Becca echoes Olivia’s excitement about the book fair and adds her own joy in planning a Friendsgiving dinner party. She is thrilled about her preparation, including purchasing tabletop decorations and compiling recipes, which she plans to share with her audience:

  "I'm throwing a Friendsgiving dinner party and I did it last year and I'm so excited to do it again... I'll link everything. So if you wanna steal everything wholesale, you can." ([02:08])

Lows:

• Becca's Low ([04:34]): Becca chooses to abstain from sharing a low, citing the collective stress surrounding the recent election and the uncertainty it brings:

  "I feel like I have stuff that I can't really talk about on air... it's a hard week for anyone listening, sitting in the uncertainty of the election. I don't need to low right now." ([04:34])

Olivia mentions her low focus is managing anxiety related to the election without letting it derail her productivity:

"My low, it is trying to not let the anxiety about the election just completely sideline my productivity any given day." ([05:05])

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Real Housewives of New York Discussion

Becca and Olivia delve into their observations of the latest seasons of Real Housewives of New York City, analyzing the show's evolving dynamics and production quality.

• Cast and Drama ([08:08]-[14:08]): They discuss the recent recasting of the cast in Season 14 and 15, noting that the lack of longstanding members affects the drama traditionally central to the franchise. Olivia highlights the youthful energy and relatability of the new cast, particularly appreciating the diverse fashion styles:

  "I love the fashion so much. I have to say, like, I love the fashion so much." ([09:17])

  Becca contrasts this with previous seasons, remarking on the manufactured nature of the drama and questioning the authenticity of conflicts:

  "I think there is a manufactured element to it. And even I got served some clips that were interviews... what parts were real versus what parts were manufactured." ([12:03])

• Favorite and Least Favorite Cast Members ([16:19]-[21:19]): The hosts share their opinions on various cast members. Olivia expresses admiration for Bryn, while Becca favors Jessel for her humorous and non-confrontational demeanor. Conversely, both express reservations about Rebecca Minkoff and Aaron, citing lackluster engagement and unnecessary drama:

  "I think Jessel is my favorite. I think she's so kooky and out of touch... she seems sweet." ([19:06])

  "I have really soured on her this season." ([17:04])

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Holiday Movies on Netflix

The duo excitedly discusses upcoming holiday-themed movies on Netflix, offering their pitches and critiques.

• "Hot Frosty" ([22:05]-[31:04]): Olivia introduces "Hot Frosty," a twist on the classic Frosty the Snowman featuring a chiseled ice sculpture brought to life by a grieving widow. Both hosts express intrigue and humor about the film's unconventional premise:

  "It's Lacy Chabert, and she is a grieving widow... he comes to life. And hijinks ensue." ([22:19])

• "The Married Gentleman" ([25:02]-[31:04]): Becca pitches "The Married Gentleman," starring Chad Michael Murray as a Broadway dancer organizing a holiday fundraiser. The conversation highlights Chad's transformation and appeal:

  "Brit Robertson... puts together an all male holiday review as a fundraiser to save this nightclub." ([25:22])

• Additional Movies ([31:04]-[31:45]): They briefly touch on other titles like Lindsay Lohan's upcoming film and "Carry On," a Christmas thriller starring Taryn Egerton and Jason Bateman.

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Christmas Decorations and Plans

Becca and Olivia share their enthusiasm for the holiday season, discussing tree decorating philosophies and upcoming festive events.

• Decorating Philosophy ([33:04]-[35:53]): Becca describes her love for kitschy ornaments and rainbow lights, while Olivia complements her style:

  "I like my Christmas tree to be as kitschy as possible... I have a disco tree." ([33:23])

  "I love that they're diversifying the cast in terms of race and stuff. That's been very refreshing." ([18:16])

• Festive Events ([36:36]-[38:43]): They plan to attend local Christmas festivals, host karaoke parties, and visit tree farms. Becca expresses excitement about the New York Philharmonic's live performance of "Elf" and attending "The Nutcracker":

  "I'm excited for the New York Philharmonic does a live performance of Elf." ([37:32])

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"Hear Me Out" Trend

Exploring the viral trend of unconventional crushes, Olivia and Becca engage in a playful "Hear Me Out" segment, sharing both typical and quirky crushes.

• Olivia’s Picks ([43:12]-[50:22]): Olivia presents unconventional attractions, including characters from the children's show Zebumafu and actors like Jesse Plemons:

  "He looks like Mark Zuckerberg, so not for me. But the other one, I just like to say hear me out." ([43:54])

• Becca’s Picks ([47:07]-[50:05]): Becca shares her admiration for comedians like Jason Mantzoukas and actors like Stanley Tucci, highlighting their unique appeal:

  "Jason Mantzoukas does it for me. Stanley Tucci... had the forearms and the soothing voice." ([47:20])

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Elite College Students and Reading Trends

Addressing a serious topic, Becca and Olivia analyze an article from The Atlantic titled "The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books," discussing the implications of declining reading habits among college students.

• Initial Reactions ([50:23]-[53:33]): Becca confesses her initial judgmental response to the article but acknowledges a shift in perspective after recognizing the rise in pleasure reading among younger generations:

  "I feel like pleasure reading is on the rise among young people... what's driving the Emily Henry, all of her backlist being on the New York Times bestseller list." ([54:58])

  Olivia reflects on the importance of bridging the gap between classic and contemporary literature to foster empathy and critical thinking:

  "Demon Copperhead is the first thing that comes to mind... incredibly diverse and engaging." ([58:54])

• Book Recommendations ([59:33]-[71:21]): The hosts propose alternative literary works that balance classic literary value with contemporary relevance, suggesting titles like "Gone Girl" by Gillian Flynn and "All My Rage" by Sabaa Tahir as potential curriculum inclusions.

  Becca emphasizes the need for accessible and relatable literature in academic settings:

  "What is the difference between reading classics and reading contemporary literature? I empathize with this because I have a really hard time reading things that are older." ([57:10])

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Book Club Picks and Obsessions

Book Club Selection:

• "Be Ready When the Luck Happens" by Ina Garten: Olivia introduces the book club's November pick, highlighting it as Ina Garten's engaging memoir:

  "Our book club pick for November is Be Ready when the Luck Happens by Ina Garten. This is her memoir you've probably been seeing everywhere." ([71:21])

Personal Obsessions:

• Becca's Reads: Becca discusses her deep dive into "Trust" by Hernan Diaz**, praising its intricate storytelling and multifaceted perspectives:

  "It's about a very wealthy couple in 1920s New York... the book is concerned with, like, what is the truth of that." ([68:19])

• Olivia's Favorites: Olivia shares her love for the song "That's So True" by Gracie Abrams and her recent reading of "Casket Case" by Lauren Evans and "The Night Circus" by Erin Morgenstern:

  "I love this song called that's so True by Gracie Abrams... Casket Case by Lauren Evans." ([66:17])

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Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Becca and Olivia encourage listeners to join their book club and engage with their social media platforms for continued discussions on books, TV shows, and festive activities. They sign off with enthusiasm, inviting the audience to connect and share their own "Hear Me Out" picks and holiday plans.

"Join us in our Geneva group under Bad On Paper Podcast or our Facebook group... See you on the Internet." ([72:23])

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Notable Quotes:

• "I think we are gonna do the book fair again next year and expand on it and hopefully make it even better." – Becca Freeman ([01:16])

• "I think there's less shame around genre fiction... more people are discovering reading as a hobby." – Becca Freeman ([64:32])

• "Shelving on how it's an empathy building experience... it’s a way to see yourself reflected back in literature." – Becca Freeman ([62:21])

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the engaging and multifaceted discussions of Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter in their November 2024 episode of Bad On Paper. From personal anecdotes and TV show critiques to festive plans and literary analyses, the hosts deliver a rich narrative that offers both entertainment and thoughtful reflections for their audience.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Baton Paper Podcast. I'm Becca Freeman.

[B]

I'm Olivia, mentor.

[A]

And today we have three things for you. We're recording this the week before. I'm guessing it's a pretty stressful time the day after the election for all of us, us included. We're in the past, so we're different, stressed. I've seen a lot of podcasts who aren't putting out episodes because what do you put out the day after the election? We're going for fun, we're going for escapism. Hopefully this is a good distraction and we're not going to talk about anything election oriented today.

[B]

However you're feeling in this moment, in the future, we are probably exactly where you are as well.

[A]

Yeah. Well, let's get into it with highs and lows. Olivia, tell me your high.

[B]

My high was. It was just the perfect fall weekend. This past weekend, you came up and visited. I had my book fair event at a brewery here in the Hudson Valley.

[A]

Which was so fun.

[B]

Thanks. It was fun. I saw a bunch of people I don't usually see who were other authors at the event or just friends in the area. And there were just lots of good meals and the weather was beautiful and it was just a really nice weekend. I was dead to the world from Sunday to Monday, but I feel now so energized from the whole experience. It was just really, really nice. And I think we are gonna do the book fair again next year and expand on it and hopefully make it even better.

[A]

I was going to ask if it was going to become an annual tradition.

[B]

I think so. Yeah.

[A]

It was so fun.

[B]

Thank you. And I enjoyed meeting so many of the people who came to the event, listeners who came from out of town. It was just. It was really nice.

[A]

Yeah, it was great.

[B]

Well, what's your high?

[A]

Well, so that's my high, too, but I figured you were going to talk about it. It was so fun. Olivia took me all over the place. We toured the. Your town doesn't really have a downtown, but we toured the area. I would say yes. You planned such cute dinners. Like, we had such a great time. You also really delivered on my fall goal of wanting to have an apple cider donut. So thank you. But now I feel like my other high is that I'm so looking forward to. I'm throwing a friendsgiving dinner party and I did it last year and I'm so excited to do it again. And this week I just bought all of the tabletop stuff, like all of the tablescape. Stuff. And I am so excited. I think I'm gonna do a newsletter next week and I'll put all of the details, like all of the recipes, all of the prep, all of the tabletop stuff. I'll link everything. So if you wanna steal everything wholesale, you can.

[B]

It sounds very fun. We were talking about this at the book fair with one of your friends who was there, which was really nice. And she was like, have you had Becca's stuffing? And I'm like, no, but it is the stuff of legends. I have heard about it. It literally is the stuff of legends. I'll see what I did there.

[A]

My friends are already fighting on text. They were like, I'm bringing a Tupperware for extras. I told Natalie that I would make two. I would make a double batch so that people could have leftovers. And everyone on the text is like, I'm bringing a Tupperware for leftovers. Like, I'm bringing a trough. And I'm like, guys, wow, I want leftovers too.

[B]

Well, you cook it from a recipe, right? Or do you cook it in a specific way? Cause I know you've shared the recipe in the Geneva and maybe on the Facebook group before, but is there a special ingredient that you add that makes it so uniquely amazing?

[A]

No, I think it's just a really good recipe.

[B]

Okay, well then it's accessible to all of us, which is nice.

[A]

It totally is. I mean, it's definitely time consuming. It's not something. And it involves literally an eye watering amount of butter. So it's not something that I would just like make on the regular, but for Thanksgiving.

[B]

Yeah, butter is great.

[A]

Totally worth the butter. Totally worth the effort.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Not that something needs to be worth the butter, but like, you know, sometimes you're making something, you're like, wow.

[B]

Yeah, I'd rather not know. Sometimes, you know, just send me to a restaurant. Whatever they give me, they give me. But yeah, when you're just sitting there putting the entire stick or two, it's. Yeah, I get it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Well, what's your low?

[A]

I'm going to abstain.

[B]

You're going to abstain from a low?

[A]

Like from lows? Yeah, I. I mean, I feel like I have stuff that I can't really talk about on air. Plus I feel like it's a hard week for anyone listening, sitting in the uncertainty of the election. I don't need to low right now.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I think if I have a low, it is trying to not let the anxiety about the election just completely sideline my productivity any given day.

[A]

I've actually felt the opposite. I felt like I need to be hyper productive now because next week I will be paralyzed.

[B]

See, that's why you're a smarter person than I am. Because that's a really good point. That's a really good point, though. I guess it says a lot about what we've all been through for the last like, say, decade of politics that, like, we're already aware that next week or when you listen, now has the potential to just totally derail us emotionally and just as a nation. So that's a good feeling. But maybe I'll do what you're doing and just really be as productive as possible for the next four days or whatever. We have five days.

[A]

That's what I'm trying to do.

[B]

Good advice.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Well, let's talk about some things. Yeah.

[A]

I'm kind of wondering if we're gonna have at least one overlap.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Well, I don't know. Based on your reaction, maybe this fear is unfounded.

[B]

Well, now I'm really curious about your things. Should we. Should we just get right into the first one?

[A]

Yeah. Should I do the one that I think might be an overlap?

[B]

Yes, please.

[A]

Okay. So we have both gotten deeply into this season and in general to the Real Housewives of New York, which we spent a decent amount of time watching over the weekend. We sucked Jake into it too. And what I'm finding so interesting is that I think in the reality television commentary universe, everyone thinks that this is not a good franchise or season yet. I am very into it. And I wanted to get your thoughts because you've binged the whole new New York, like seasons 14 and 15, I think, over the past few weeks. And I want to get just, like, your take on what you think of it. Yeah. I want to know if you have any theories on why it appeals, why.

[B]

Housewives in general appeals, or why New York appeals New York. Well, it's an interesting question, and it's funny that you say that you thought this would have overlap, because one of my things was almost going to be, if you had a Real Housewives tagline, what would it be? But I realize it's too hard to ask on the spot. And also, I couldn't.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I would need. I would need to workshop.

[B]

I couldn't even come up with my own. So I was like, this is not a good one to ask, but sort of some overlap, I guess. Like, I watch a lot of the Housewives franchises, so I can recognize that it's definitely, as it is now, a weaker franchise compared to, say, Salt Lake City.

[A]

What makes a strong franchise?

[B]

I think, and we talked about this in person, but I think because the cast is so new, for those that don't know, in season 14, they completely recast the housewives in New York City. Usually Housewives, you have at least a couple people who have been there for four or five years, if not decades, like in Orange county, where they've been doing this for literally the past 10 years. And so they have all this built up drama and resentment in history, and it just makes for more drama, which is like the whole crux of the show. But I think New York City is interesting because everyone is younger than on most Other franchises, most other cities. And, like, there's some people on New York City that are, like, around our age, which is really cool, and it's just a little more relatable. They talk differently, they argue about different things. And also, I love the fashion. I have to say, like, I love the fashion so much.

[A]

And I've said before that I like the Kardashians because there's guardrails around it. Like their family. They can get in fights, but it's not going to get too, too bad. And I think I like that it's not so dramatic because sometimes I've watched some other franchises or just episodes of other ones with Friends who are much more invested in kind of like the whole Bravo universe, and it stresses me out. Like, I get that knot in my stomach feeling when it gets too gnarly. And so the fact that some of these fights feel so manufactured and feel out of nowhere, I'm like, yeah, this is a level I can handle.

[B]

Yes, that's a great point. I think you're really aware with New York City, more than maybe any other franchise, that, like, they're all sort of trying to make sure they make it to the next season. You know, they're all like, okay, I've got to turn up the drama. I'm going to do something very unhinged. There's clearly just to, you know, stir up shit or get more airtime.

[A]

I got served a reel with Crystal Minkoff, who has been on the past few seasons of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And I can't remember if she got kicked off last season or is kicked off for the upcoming season.

[B]

Is she related to Rebecca Minkoff who is on this season as a friend of.

[A]

I mean, it's through marriage. Minkoff is her last name, but I don't think so, but maybe. Anyway, Crystal is Asian, so her and Rebecca are not blood related, I'm fairly certain.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So anyway, she was talking about in the interview how it came to be that she got kicked off the show. And she was saying that the producers reached out to her and they were brainstorming storylines for the season, and some of them felt like a bit too much of a stretch. Like, it started with what's going on in your life, but then it kind of stretched the truth in a way that she wasn't comfortable with. And she didn't say what they were pushing her to do or what was really happening in her life versus what the storyline they were going to show. But, like, there is a manufactured element to it. I Have no doubt. And even I got served some clips that were interviews, I think, with Kristen Cavallari about the Hills. And it was like, what parts were real versus what parts were manufactured. And she was saying a lot of times they would have to, like, reenact things that happened in real life or, like, amplify things that were happening in real life. And so, you know, there definitely is a fakeness to it. And it feels like this season they're like, okay, we just need people to yell at each other. And so, like, the yelling comes out of nowhere and is kind of has no basis in reality. But then I did see a clip of. And I sent this to you of Jessel on an interview somewhere saying that the season ends so catastrophically that. That they needed to stop filming early and somebody, two people needed to be like, leave the premises.

[B]

Yeah. I think the interesting thing about Housewives is what you're saying. It is obviously manufactured and pushed a certain way, but I think there's so much overlap with real feelings and emotions that a few seasons into it, it's impossible to figure out which is which anymore. Which is why I feel like New York City is hitting its stride this season and probably next season. I will make this prediction here. This is now a Bravo Historian podcast by me, that it's going to be, like, the most explosive, like, dramatic, interesting season because it's going to have. Oh, it's going to have all the two years of buildup, and no one's going to know, which is the storyline, which is just real drama.

[A]

My hunch is that a lot of the things that they're actually angry about with each other or that the actual resentment and animosity they have is about things that are happening behind the scenes. So about the machinations of, you know, who's getting more press, who's getting more screen time, et cetera. And so, like, this week. Have you watched this week's episode?

[B]

No, I'm not caught up all the way, actually. I'm like, maybe two or three behind.

[A]

Can I give you a light spoiler?

[B]

Oh, sure. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So in this week's episode, Aaron and Jenna get into a huge fight. It basically seems like Aaron was mad that Jenna wasn't reaching out to her because her mom is going through cancer treatment. It's like, well, I don't think you're actually friends off the show. Like, this isn't real life, so of course she's not reaching out to you. And so it is a level of manufactured. But then it also seemed like Bryn was stirring the pot because Aaron and Jenna were getting close at the reunion and Bryn was mad that they were like stealing her thunder. And so like I'm sure some of this just has to do with shit that is like petty shit that happens off camera. That's too inside baseball. Cause they also have to play it off as if there's an awareness that they're not on a show.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That they're just regular people.

[B]

I always think about what the exact wording is in the contract or the rules where it says you cannot actually mention the show on the show. Cause there are so many arguments where the thing I'm thinking that I want someone to say is like, you're obviously only doing this because you're on a show and you want airtime or whatever. Like for example, we talked about this. But Jessel last season has this list of what she would say back to mean things people have said to her or she's heard have been said about her. And in my mind I thought of course you are writing this down so you have it handy for the confessionals. So when they're playing your little retorts edited into the actual in real time drama, it fits perfectly. But of course they can't say that. So I wonder what that rule is. Thou shalt not mention the show on the show or whatever it is.

[A]

Right. Who's your favorite and least favorite of the. And I'm talking about these as characters. This is not a value judgment on them as humans.

[B]

I have a love hate relationship with all of them. As you should with any good housewife, I think. But right now I really find Bryn very interesting. Like I really like her.

[A]

I have really soured on her this season.

[B]

That's good to know. I mean it's episode to episode. Like Jessel I had some real problems with and I have grown to like more. I would say maybe Bryn. I find I like Jenna a lot. I mean I was like a Jenna fangirl back in the day. I interviewed her once in a red carpet actually and I was like so scared. So it's funny to see how awkward she is.

[A]

When I went all the way back on your Instagram a few months ago, which I think you really hated, how excited you were about your job at J. Crew.

[B]

I really, I mean it was kind of funny to me when she was talking in the show about how like how she couldn't walk out her door. Cause she was like so famous at the height of it. But honestly, like she was like a figure within blogging fashion. I Mean, the J. Crew bubble necklaces was an era. And the sham chambray, the chambray shirts, the gosh, just all of it.

[A]

And I also kind of remember her modeling in some of the campaigns and in the catalogs. Like she was not just a force behind the scenes, but she was very much a face of the brand.

[B]

Yes. And I really love her style. I think it's really refreshing that like she does something different and she wore jeans at the reunion. That's one thing I really don't like about Housewives is that it's a really, like, I don't know, specific and one sided. I don't know what I'm looking for, what word I'm looking for, but portrayal of beauty. And I understand that. Cause it's like the pinnacle of beauty standards and wealth and all of this. I think it is great that they're diversifying the cast in terms of race and stuff. That's been very refreshing.

[A]

Who's your least favorite right now?

[B]

I really don't like Psych. I just. Maybe she's just not a very good actor. And it doesn't feel organic even remotely. And it just is strange. It's like it's not. If you yell louder, like it's gonna feel more real.

[A]

I know what you mean. At the end of last season, the fight that she got in with UBA and Brynn just felt so out of nowhere. Like it felt like she got taken aside and it was like, your position's in jeopardy for next season, so you better stir some shit.

[B]

Yeah. And but having said that, the thing she said at the reunion that was like, I was actually embarrassed or mad at myself and I took it on you. I was like, that's maybe the most evolved thing I've heard someone say. Having said that, if that was her plan all along, then of course. But okay, you said that you've soured on Bryn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where are you? Do you have favorites? Least favorites?

[A]

I think Jessel is my favorite. I think she's so kooky and out of touch. Perhaps too out of touch. But I think she's good television. I think, like her and Pavitt's relationship is really funny to me. Like, that dynamic is really funny. She wants to be a housewife so badly. Like in the, in the most recent episode, she throws this clueless themed birthday party and she has four outfit changes where she's posing for like photos with everyone. And I'm like, you just, you know what you're doing here? And I, I think she's like, funny But I think she seems sweet, you know? And all of her drama is fairly low stakes, it feels like.

[B]

Yes, I would agree with that.

[A]

But she's not starting shit.

[B]

Yeah, I would agree with that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. As far as liking the least, I think Rebecca Minkoff is not well suited to this. I almost wonder because she does get a lot of screen time, as if she's a full cast member. And they did announce her at one point as a full cast member, where I almost wonder if she was so bland that they then demoted her to a friend of. And there was so much drama about her being a Scientologist. But yeah, she, like, shows up to this clueless birthday party in, like, a black skirt suit. Like, it is. She is just not good television.

[B]

She has to.

[A]

She won't engage. When somebody asked her, like, what do we say about the Scientology rumors? And she's like, say, no comment. Like, she's not engaging.

[B]

Yeah, I was gonna say she has to be a good example for the Church of Scientology. I was glad that Bryn pushed her on that, though, a little bit.

[A]

Anyway, the other person that I don't love is I don't love Aaron. I feel like Aaron to dish it out, but can't take it. And she is such a shit stirrer. She starts so much drama, and then the minute any of it comes back to her, she is such a special snowflake.

[B]

Yeah, I see what you mean. She's definitely sensitive.

[A]

Yeah. And I feel like that happened on the trip last season. And I was really annoyed about that. And then it just happened, this episode with the Jenna stuff, and I was like, Aaron, I did not like how.

[B]

They ganged up on her, though, in the hot tub time machine. I did not like how they ganged up on her. That, to me, felt horrible to even watch.

[A]

I don't remember it well enough. Cause I watched it last year.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I watched it, like, two days ago. Cause I somehow just decided to watch 40 episodes within a very short time period. So that's.

[A]

These trying times. These trying times. I agree with you that I like the fashion. I also like seeing where they go. I think it's really fun to me. And I'm sure there's some PR element of what locations will clear themselves for them to shoot or. I don't know if there's a payment involved of them paying Bravo for the exposure or something. But I also just like seeing where they go. I like seeing their apartments too.

[B]

Oh, I love the apartments. Jenna's apartment is so cool.

[A]

Yeah. All right. I think I've gotten my fill there. What is your first thing?

[B]

My first thing is also entertainment related. And that is I wanted to discuss some of the holiday movies coming to Netflix this season.

[A]

Please, please.

[B]

First off, I want to talk about.

[A]

I already know Hot Frosty the Married Gentleman. Oh, no.

[B]

Do you know what Hot Frosty is about?

[A]

No, I only know about the Married Gentleman on Netflix.

[B]

I'm so excited to pitch this to you. You have no idea. Okay, so I.

[A]

Tell me the name again.

[B]

Hot Frosty.

[A]

I'm trying to think if I could even give you, like, an entertaining guess at what this is. I don't think the title is descriptive enough. I did an event a few weeks ago with Georgia Clarke for her new book, Most Wonderful, and I brought a bunch of titles and made her guess the plot. But it was like Christmas at the Alpaca Farm, where I feel like I had more to go on. Like, Hot Frosty. I'm like, is this a live action Frosty the Snowman, like, experiencing global warming movie? That doesn't sound like very. That doesn't sound like it would have you this content.

[B]

It's a pile of environmental changes and the end of civilization. No. It's so wonderful and amazing. Okay, so I'm reading this from a Marie Claire article to give it full credit. We'll link it in the show notes. But the gist of Hot Frosty is the plot of Frosty the Snowman, except he's hot. So it's Lacy Chabert, and she is a grieving widow, of course, who magically brings to life a particularly chiseled ice sculpture in her hometown. So I watched this trailer, and it's literally like she comes across this very hot ice sculpture. Abs, muscles. And she puts the scarf around him and then he comes to life. Of course he's naked when he comes to life. And hijinks ensue. I cannot wait to watch this.

[A]

We're sure that this is Netflix. I feel like Lacy Chabert is like a queen of Hallmark.

[B]

So I think that Netflix and Hallmark have a deal because There are also 10 other Hallmark movies that are coming to Netflix this Christmas. This is a brand new, like, original, though, and it is definitely Netflix. But yes, she definitely also has a deal with Hallmark. So I think they have some sort of thing going on.

[A]

I guess it does sound a little too racy for Hallmark.

[B]

Yeah, he's naked a lot. And there's lots of abs, which does sound a little much for Hallmark.

[A]

I feel like for a while, Netflix was doing a lot of holiday ghost movies. Where a woman fell in love with a ghost and I'm like, yeah, yeah, an ice sculpture. It feels very obscure. Erotica coded, like, let's go.

[B]

It does. It absolutely does. It looks really funny actually and kind of good and I'm really quite excited to watch.

[A]

Okay, what else do you have for me?

[B]

More apps. You already mentioned this one. This is the Merry Gentleman, which I have not seen the trailer for, but starring Chad Michael Murray it is. Why don't you pitch it? You know this one better than me actually, so why don't you pitch it? I'm looking at the photo still from Netflix and it's just like the most muscles ever seen.

[A]

I don't even need a description is the problem. Like I know I can do this off the top of my head. So Brit Robertson, who I actually really like as an, as an actress. Her parents own a small town nightclub that is at risk of going out of business and she's a Broadway dancer and so she puts together an all male holiday review as a fundraiser to save this nightclub. So it's basically like a Magic Mike esque performance where Chad Michael Murray is one of the dancers and she gets more than she bargained for, which I assume is love.

[B]

I love in many, many ab muscles.

[A]

Like I gotta tell you, Chad Michael Murray looks good in these. Like if this is a comeback vehicle for him, he's good.

[B]

Like spend some time.

[A]

He's set up for this.

[B]

He spent some time gym, tanning. Not a hair on that man's body.

[A]

He is smooth as a porpoise for some reason. Like the blonde highlights. It's kind of working it. He has made it work for this era.

[B]

I feel so scandalized by the image I'm looking at which like he's holding his belt buckle and then also his hat and it's just like shirtless. Anyway, this one comes out November 20th and Hot Frosty comes out November 13th, so it's right around the corner.

[A]

So I am hosting Friendsgiving on the 21st and I have already told all of the guests that there will be an optional late night viewing of the Married Gentleman.

[B]

Midnight drunk. Honestly, that sounds great.

[A]

Not midnight, but you know, like it's a weeknight. It's a Thursday where it's like if you gotta go home, I get it. But like I'm going to be drunk watching the Marriage.

[B]

Oh, it's the day after. Sorry, I flipped the dates around in my mind.

[A]

Yeah, it can be like an 8A 9pm viewing.

[B]

That's a great addition to the schedule. There's also a Lindsay Lohan movie coming up November 27th. I'm not really as interested in that one. It's basically just like, exes are forced to be together, I think.

[A]

I'm not interested in that movie, but I am interested in Lindsay Lohan's comeback at large.

[B]

Very happy for her.

[A]

I feel like she has proven herself. Like, she was in the Netflix holiday movie a few years ago and, like, was a dumb script. It was a dumb movie, but she was good. Like, it was. It was a good Lindsay Lohan performance. No, the amnesia one.

[B]

I don't know if I watched that one.

[A]

It was a Christmas movie and she was like a hotel heiress and she had a terrible fiance, and then she got amnesia.

[B]

I did watch that. I also watched the Irish one. So I'm really invested in her career as well. I'm here supporting.

[A]

They keep giving her terrible scripts, and I'm like, let's get her to an actually good movie. She doesn't have to be the star, but let's really put her in something.

[B]

Well, Freaky Friday.

[A]

I know, but again, so exciting movie. Like, give her a.

[B]

That's a classic.

[A]

It's a classic.

[B]

But give her Oscar winner, Jamie Lee Curtis.

[A]

Yeah, but put her in an Oscar contender. Let's see. Let's just see what happens.

[B]

I'm with you. I'm with you. Finally. Personally, for me, is it cake? Holiday edition is coming. There's a sickness in my brain in which I will watch every season of Is it Cake? I don't know why they give it to me. I watch it. And then finally. This is something I didn't know about until today, but there is a Christmas thriller coming out starring Taryn Egerton as a TSA agent who is playing a cat and mouse game with a vindictive traveler who is played by my favorite, Jason Bateman. So I think this will be good. It's called Carry on. It's out December 13th.

[A]

You know what else I'm excited for? Happy birthday, Taylor. This is on Lifetime, not on Netflix. And I looked up a bunch of these for the event. I did. To try to find ones that had titles that somebody could guess what they were. I'm excited for one on Lifetime called Make or Bake Christmas. Do you want to try to guess what it's about before I tell you?

[B]

Make or Bake Christmas.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Starring Vivica A. Fox.

[B]

Okay, so definitely a woman who I would say she's widowed or divorced. And she is forced to compete in a baking challenge with her arch nemesis who Then she falls in love with.

[A]

It's about a hostile corporate takeover.

[B]

Right, that was my second guess, obviously.

[A]

So the description reads, with Christmas fast approaching, Leslie, known for her experience in all things domestic and top lifestyle brands, is looking to expand her business. She sets her sights on the bakery Sugar Bakers, owned by Denise Sugarbaker and run by her son David. Determined to make a deal before the end of the year, Leslie sends one of her top employees, Emma, to go undercover as a seasonal employee in order to convince them to sell. Emma unexpectedly finds herself falling in love with the quaint bakery, the Christmas spirit, and especially David.

[B]

So it's Emma's love story.

[A]

It's Emma's love story. I'm not sure which character Vivica A. Fox is in that description.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would love to see Vivica A. Fox as like a kind of like deranged Martha Stewart lifestyle expert.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I can see hell bent on a corporate takeover of a small town bakery.

[B]

She'll be great in anything. That sounds layered. It sounds different than I was expecting. There's a few different plots in there. They just were like, we're going to do them all. We'll see.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. I love that.

[B]

Would you say you're most excited for Mary Gentleman?

[A]

Absolutely no competition. If it lets me down, the tour is over, the tour's ruined.

[B]

I'm pretty excited for that one, too. I do think for me, Hot Frosty wins only because as a child, I owned a VHS tape of the movie Jack Frost starring Michael Keaton, in which a truly traumatizing plot, the kid's father dies and comes back as a really menacing looking snowman who just melts all the time because, you know, it's getting warmer. And when he melts, he's gone and his dad is gone. And I don't know why I liked that as a kid because it's very dark, but I did. So I think this will be a nice romantic version of that.

[A]

You'll have to report back. That one, I will say, does not grip me. I think as a premise, it is utterly ridiculous. And like, for the logline alone, 10 stars. I can't say that I'll be tuning in for that necessarily, but I do await your review.

[B]

Okay. I will be here with it. I will.

[A]

Well, that kind of dovetails into my next thing, which is just that we were talking about it this weekend and I thought maybe we could talk about it on the podcast too. I feel very festive very early. I am ready for Full Tilt Christmas. Like, we are recording this on Halloween, October 31st. I'm ready for the clock to strike midnight. I'm ready for the holiday season to begin. I think I might put up my Christmas tree this week. I think in the post election stress, I want a Christmas tree up to look at.

[B]

I support you. I'm really feeling it too. Like, I'm really feeling it. This is our first Christmas in our house that we're staying here.

[A]

No, it's not. Oh. I was like, that's. That's a lie.

[B]

Yes. Thank you. But that we're staying here and that we didn't put up any decorations last year. I don't know. I guess it just really shows how jumbled my mental state was that I was just like, no, I'm not doing this thing that I absolutely love. So I am ready. I am excited. Garland going up and down the stairs. Michael Buble.

[A]

Oh, that's going to be gorgeous.

[B]

Fireplaces on hot Frosty playing in the background. Okay, so tell me about your Christmas tree decorating philosophy. Are you a kind of like traditional, like all the family ornaments? Do you have a theme? No. Oh, okay, tell us. Walk us through it.

[A]

No, I am a hardcore rainbow lights person.

[B]

That's the same.

[A]

I like my Christmas tree to be as kitschy as possible. Right now I have a. It's like 10 years old. It has seen better days. It's from Home Depot. Like a pre lit fake tree. When this one kicks it, I would say there's a 50% chance that I get a silver tree with rainbow lights. Like, I like very kitschy Christmas silver. A silver tree. Haven't you seen those? I have like a disco tree. Yeah.

[B]

So in a lot of. Not in addition to.

[A]

In place of. Yeah, in place of. I have a lot of kitschy ornaments. Like, I love the ones that are like the celebrity busts. Like, I have a Cher one. Grace got me one a few years ago. That's a dumpster fire ornament. I have roller skein ornaments. Like, they're just funky ones. I have some like plain balls too, to fill things in. But like, for the most part, it's kitschy. I like a food ornament.

[B]

Did you have a favorite ornament growing up?

[A]

I'm sure I did, but I can't think of it. I do remember my least favorite ornament, but not my favorite.

[B]

Well, tell me about your least favorite.

[A]

My least favorite was this Santa ornament. And he had like, his beard was like doll hair. Like he had real hair. And like, I cannot tell you how creepy this Santa was.

[B]

Sorry, I'm imagining a Lifetime movie where that creepy Santa comes to life and then someone falls in love with him.

[A]

He would be on like a sexual assault registry. Like, this Santa looked so rough. His doll hair beard was so creepy looking. And I'm like, who picked this out? Like, who was like, yes, this must be on our tree.

[B]

There are a lot of decorations that are also kind of terrifying. Like my mom has the carolers and all of their mouths are just stuck in these singing positions. But it looks like they're screaming. They're just all.

[A]

I thought you were going to say it looks like they're ready to give up blowjob.

[B]

Well, that is one interpretation. They look kind of frightened though, which I mean fair either way, I guess. It's just they all look so alarmed in their Christmas village. What monster is chasing them anyway? Yeah, I'm here for a creepy Christmas decoration though.

[A]

Every now and then I can actually picture that. I could also picture you at some point having a creepy doll room of creepy dolls that you find at the restore or something. And you're like, it's so creepy, I need to buy it. And then you buy too many and then you just. You have a small room of them.

[B]

I buy things for many reasons. Some would say just any reason, but never is it because I find this really creepy sometimes it's like, I love this thing. Some might find it creepy. I find it charming. But never a doll. Not a doll person.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My mother in law does have three Christmas trees in her house every year. One is always a Barbie Christmas tree and it is only Barbie Christmas ornaments and she collects them.

[A]

That's kind of fun.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

Is it a pink tree?

[B]

It is not pink, I don't think. I think it's just green. But I've always appreciated that.

[A]

Do you have any other Christmas events? Christmas things, holiday season things that you are excited for outside of decorating and your hot frosty movie?

[B]

Gosh, I have a few things. We have something here called Candlelight Night. It's like the town Christmas festival, which I'm excited for, especially now that I have more friends here. I think we're tentatively planning a party in which I'm calling the dress code. Fancy dress, comfortable shoes with midnight karaoke.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

Again, this is all in my Christmas.

[A]

Karaoke or just general karaoke.

[B]

I feel. I feel like I may require everyone to do one holiday song and then the song of their choice later in the night. Again, I've thought about this a lot. For someone who may or May not be actually having the party. What else? I think that's about it. Just getting a real tree for the first time in a very long time. I'm excited about that. Potentially going to an actual tree farm around here. Just all the things I'm with you. I'm so excited. I'm so, so excited.

[A]

Can I tell you something that I am very excited for?

[B]

Yes, please.

[A]

Friend. Allie instigated this, and I was less excited because I don't think I fully understood it, but now I do. So the New York Philharmonic does a live performance of Elf. So it's at the Philharmonic theater. They play it Elf, the movie on a huge screen, and the orchestra plays all of the music for it.

[B]

Oh, that's fun. I've heard of that for Jurassic park and stuff. That sounds really fun.

[A]

I'm very excited. At first I just thought it was a concert of the music, and I was like, allie, I don't know if I can listen to two hours of them playing the ba dum ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba. Like, I'm like, I don't know how many songs I'm such a great song, though.

[B]

Shout out to whoever composed that. Cause I just immediately thought of Christmas the second that you sung it.

[A]

So I'm really excited for that. I'm also excited for the Nutcracker, which is my favorite New York City Christmas thing. And I didn't go last night. I was just a little overwhelmed with book stuff, and I didn't make it happen. And so this year, I got my tickets. I'm ready.

[B]

Oh, good. I've only been to Nutcracker maybe once, but I love that as, like, a Christmas tradition. So. Sounds fun. Will you dress up for it?

[A]

Absolutely. I bought this red skirt From J. Crew 2 months ago that I have already earmarked as my holiday skirt. There is a brushed cashmere sweater that J. Crew also has that is always excluded from their sales. But I'm really hoping it goes on sale on Black Friday and I'm going to have, like, my all red holiday outfit.

[B]

Oh, I love that. Oh, I love color bl. Like a red skirt, red top. It's just satisfying pairing color blocking.

[A]

I'm ready. Let's take a quick ad break and then let's get into your next thing.

[B]

This episode is sponsored by this is small business behind the Buy, which is the official companion podcast to Prime Video's new show called Buy it now, where entrepreneurs compete to win $20,000. I think we have a lot of very, very creative listeners, so if you are someone who is interested in how ordinary people turn their big ideas into a business. Or if you just want to learn from real entrepreneurs and get actionable advice on how they succeed, this is definitely for you.

[A]

So in each episode, you hear directly from the winning entrepreneurs on the TV show and they talk about their backstories, their challenges, the business strategies that turn their dreams into a reality. From the intense preparation to the thrill of winning, the podcast explores every angle of what it takes to pitch, win, and build a thriving business. When you tune in, you get inspired by real stories of real entrepreneurs.

[B]

So in the first episode, for example, you hear the story of a nurse turned entrepreneur named Felicia. And Felicia was driving home with her toddler in the backseat when they started choking. But even as a trained nurse, she just froze in the moment and wasn't sure what to do. Luckily, everyone was safe in the end, but the incident inspired Felicia to create a product that would save lives and help parents know exactly what to do in a health emergency.

[A]

Follow this is Small Business colon behind the by on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A big thanks to this is Small Business for sponsoring the show. All right, Olivia, what is your. Are we on your second thing?

[B]

We are on my second thing, but it's going to be my final thing because I had a third thing and it was a little more serious. And you know what? I feel like? Not the time, not the place. We're going to revisit another episode, but this one is very fun, I think. Have you heard about the Hear Me out trend?

[A]

The Hear us out where it's. It's like a Lonely island video from two weeks ago's snl. Three weeks ago's snl when Andy Samberg was a guest or he was like, I don't know, he did something. They did a Lonely island short. And the song is called Sushi Glory Hole. If you have not seen it, it's hilarious. And the whole song, he's giving a pitch. Him and one of the other guys from Lily island are giving a business pitch. And the people they're pitching to, it's Kenan Bowen, Yang and Maya Rudolph. And the people are like so horrified that they keep trying to get up. And then it's a rap, so I can't do it. But he's like, hear me out, hear me out. They just keep repeating it. So I wonder if it's like spawned off of this or I'm going to send it to you. You need to watch this after we finish.

[B]

So the Context that I know the phrase in is this trend of being like, hear me out and then naming a kind of unconventional celebrity or just person or character crush. So, like, hear me out.

[A]

Unrelated, I did not need to tell you. I did not need to tell you about Sushi Glory.

[B]

I'm glad that we worked those words into the podcast today, though, because I just. I feel like we hit some sort of bingo somewhere.

[A]

I hope AI is listening.

[B]

Anyway, I wanted to know your hear me out picks, and I wanted to share mine. I have three, ranging from obscure to just not a real human. Still have a crush on them.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

To a little more conventional, but still, I think, not necessarily a conventionally attractive person. Shall I begin? Shall I begin my presentation?

[A]

Yeah, this is gonna take some thinking for me. I don't have. I wish you teed me up for this. I won't hold it against you.

[B]

I'll give you a few.

[A]

I could have come up with some real weird ones if I had time to find.

[B]

I can give you some moments to research and we can get back to it if you want. Google around.

[A]

Well, yeah, you tell me yours. Okay.

[B]

I wanna start by asking you if you've ever heard of a little show called Zebumafu. Me and you and Zabufu. Have you ever heard that song?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, that probably makes sense because it was a children's show that existed for one year in the late 1990s. However, one of the hosts of that show, they're brothers. One of them looks like Mark Zuckerberg, so not for me. But the other one, I would just like to say hear me out. Very attractive. One of my first ever crushes.

[A]

Do you remember his name? I need to Google him. I have no context for this. Or how does one spell Zeboumafoo?

[B]

Great question. Z, O, B, O, O, M, A F, O, O. He's now in his mid-50s.

[A]

I see.

[B]

Chris. His name was Chris Craig.

[A]

The person you're talking about now, did you have a crush on him as a child watching this?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or are you saying as an adult? Because this man looks a solid 50 in this photo.

[B]

Everyone looked 50 in the 90s. No. At least I didn't have a crush on the lemur. Are you looking at this lemur? I'm sorry, I've never actually looked at this fake lemur. This is the most terrifying. This was the. The character I liked. I think Chris Krat is cute. He's in his 30s here, probably.

[A]

I don't think so. You don't think he's cute?

[B]

Well, Hear me out.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

Okay, fine.

[A]

Well, I'm saying I don't think he's in his 30s. He's a very conventionally attractive middle aged man.

[B]

55.

[A]

Seems like a. Oh, okay. Seems like you were like, picture a hot accountant. That's who I would picture.

[B]

Yeah. Six year old me was like, I'm into it. I don't know what it was. Maybe it was just like the song. It's a good theme song. The lemur is absolutely horrifying. But I think I'm gonna find some people out there who also are Zabumafim fans. Zaboomafu. I'm sorry? I added an M there. Which. Why not? I mean, it could be anything. It's not a word. Anyway, so that's my first one. Is Chris.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Chris Crapp from Zaboomafu. Second one.

[A]

That's a deep cut.

[B]

Second one. We're getting weird. Have you seen the animated film Anastasia.

[A]

Back in the day? Sure.

[B]

Okay. Demetri in Anastasia is one of the hottest animated characters ever to exist in this presentation. I will. I'm just kidding.

[A]

He's very hot. He's very conventionally attractive. I don't think anyone needs to hear you out.

[B]

Well, yes, but he's not a human being. I would like to say also in terms of the animated characters that I find attractive.

[A]

Hercules.

[B]

Hercules.

[A]

Hercules is the hottest Disney character in my opinion.

[B]

I would agree. But also, what about the main guy in the Lost Empire?

[A]

Don't know what that is.

[B]

Google it. Because he looks like Dimitri, but with glasses. He looks like a hipster. Demetri.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Yep.

[B]

It's the floppy.

[A]

He's comped off the same template.

[B]

The floppy hair. The floppy Sean Hunter Boy Meets World hair really does something for me. So those two. And then my third one, which I think is. I don't know what you'll make of this. Jesse Plemons, the actor.

[A]

Oh, he just seems like a sweetie. Yeah, I can see that.

[B]

But you know, he's not like the Glen Powells of the world.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

But he's married to Kristen Butz. I mean, he's clearly attractive, but like in a slightly unconventional way, which I really enjoy.

[A]

I see that.

[B]

Thank you. Okay, you've had some time. If you need some more time, I also could just name people that come up as people. Hear me out a lot. Like Arthur the aardvark.

[A]

No, no, he's a child.

[B]

I guess that's true. No, that's a good point.

[A]

So the first one I Would like to bring up that I've always felt like I think there's a different attraction quotient for men that are very funny.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Jason Mantzoukas. Hear me out.

[B]

I'm looking it up. Oh, yes, I see this as well.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's kind of an oddball. It works for me. The only thing, and I know this because one of my good friends has like a deep crush on him. Like, I would need to step aside, girl, code wise, he's allergic to eggs. And she's like, it would be really hard because he's so allergic that we couldn't make out if I had eggs. And so she's like, I would have to give up eggs for him. Which seems like a lot.

[B]

She's really been through all the. All the stuff.

[A]

She really has.

[B]

I feel like he's kind of like Nick Kroll. Bill Hader.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like any comedian is kind of like, that's attractive. That's a great choice.

[A]

You know who else does it for me? And this has a lot to do with the forearms and the soothing voice. Stanley Tucci. I don't think that that's a controversial one. I think a lot of people will hear me out.

[B]

Not controversial, but fully supported.

[A]

But not a Glen Powell.

[B]

A good point. Yeah. A little. A little different. Yeah. I will never forget, by the way, this has stuck with me when. When I said I have a weird crush on Jason Bateman and then you said he looks like Tig Notaro and now it's all I think about.

[A]

He does.

[B]

But I still have a crush on Jason Bateman.

[A]

In his aging process. They are converging.

[B]

Specific yet accurate. What do you think of like Woody Harrelson? There's something about Woody Harrelson that kind of does it for me.

[A]

No, I mean there's something about him that just seems too chill. Where I think I would if I met him in real life, my inclination is that I would be really annoyed by him. Like I would want to punch him. Same with Matthew McConaughey. Like, just not for me. I wouldn't punch anyone. So I don't know why that is my inclination.

[B]

But yeah, I mean, it's your truth.

[A]

Andy Samberg, too. Going back to sushi glory hole. I would hear him out.

[B]

What about non comedians other than Stanley Tucci, who's not a comedian?

[A]

Stanley Tucci. I mean, you really put me on the spot here.

[B]

So, so sorry. I've been thinking about this for hours.

[A]

I'm sure there are such weird ones scrolling through a Reddit thread to see other people's. Right now I feel really panicked.

[B]

I'm like, I did come up with some Channing Tatum. I was like, okay, we're operating from two different worlds. If you're saying Channing Tatum and I'm saying the host of 1999 Zebumafu, just.

[A]

Yeah, but then there's other people in here who I really am hearing out, like, one person was like, Jameson Spader. And I was like, doesn't do it for me.

[B]

Oh, that. I don't. That I don't really get.

[A]

Me either. Me either. So, like, some of these are too normal, and then some of them are too singular.

[B]

People are interesting where it's like Adrien.

[A]

Brody, and it's like, he just has a big nose. He's hot.

[B]

He is very hot.

[A]

I wish I had something weirder to add to the mix here.

[B]

Those were great choices. I support them all. And if any pop up, just, you know, bring them to the class, Bring them to the group.

[A]

I will. I'm excited to hear other people's too. This thread is not doing it for me. I don't know who half of these people are in this thread.

[B]

Well, what is your third thing? Bring us on. Okay.

[A]

My third thing. I asked you to read an article in preparation for this.

[B]

Oh, God, I've blocked this out, but now I'm remembering it.

[A]

So it's an article in the Atlantic, which is behind a paywall, which sucks. But I feel like we're deep enough in the episode and I don't think the Atlantic is listening, that I will tell you that there is this website that you can use called 12ftio and you can put any link into it, and it'll get you around the paywall. So, anyway, the article in the Atlantic is called the Elite College Students who Can't Read Books. And the peg for this is a professor of literature at Columbia who has students who came and complained to him that the coursework is too much and they cannot read a full book and that they never had to read a full book in high school. And I've had a real journey with this article because at first my reaction was really judgmental. I was like, oh, my God. Like kids today. I was the grandpa on the lawn. And I was like, technology's ruining everything. But I've really come around to a different point of view. So, anyway, I sent this to you this morning. I'm curious, what was your read on it?

[B]

It depressed me a lot, but I don't necessarily feel like I blame Them. I understand it's not like I'm saying kids these days, but the stuff about what that would mean for the publishing industry if people aren't reading is really scary to me. And I had never actually thought about.

[A]

But that's where I came around. So I read this article. When it came out, I had a really judgmental reaction. And then yesterday I was listening to a podcast and it was mentioned super briefly. I'll tell you about the podcast episode because it's my obsession. I'll tell you later. And it came up super briefly in the context of this episode. And the thing is, is that I think pleasure reading is on the rise among young people and maybe not college students, but I think like young Gen Z, especially women kind of directly post college who, you know, the kind of crop of people who discovered Colleen Hoover during the pandemic. These people who are just sucking down books. You see them on TikTok. Like, I feel like pleasure reading is at an all time high. Like it's what's driving the Emily Henry, all of her backlist being on the New York Times bestseller list all of last year. Like the Taylor Jenkins Reid having a resurgence on the bestseller list. Like not new books, but like books going super mega viral that aren't, aren't new releases. And so on the one hand, in an academic setting, kids can't read books. But I do feel like there's a surge in pleasure reading. And so it kind of got me thinking, like, what is the point of a college English class where obviously for an English major you're getting ready for probably a job maybe as a writer or working in academia. And so having this broad base of historical literary context is important for you perhaps. But like as a core or gen ed requirement, it's like you're testing to see if you want to be an English major, I guess. And then I feel like there's some snobby element of general cultural literacy. And I feel like this is really antiquated. Where college was like meant to prepare you for polite society, where it was like a very like have versus have not thing. And so being able to have a educated conversation about Shakespeare or something like that had value. And in today's world, like, there are certainly circles and corners where that's relevant. But it's like, it's kind of like the, you need to learn how to do long division. And it's like you have a calculator in your pocket where it's like you need to know something about Shakespeare. Google it. And it's like, what is the difference between reading classics and reading contemporary literature? And I empathize with this because I have a really hard time reading things that are older. I think that technology has accelerated at such a rate that even when I read Bel Canto or when I read something especially older than that, it feels so, so out of context for the present day, which there's value to. But I understand not being able to read that.

[B]

I think those are all great points. I did wonder while reading it, like, okay, obviously I am not expecting, as one of the professors quoted in the. The article does, that people are saying their favorite book is Jane Eyre coming out of high school right now. Like, that doesn't.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, that was ridiculous. And there was a real snobbery to. Somebody quoted in the article said that students are saying that Percy Jackson or, like, Harry Potter books are their favorite books. And it's like, you can judge Harry Potter for its author for other things, but I don't know. I feel like it's like the snobbery around guilty pleasures.

[B]

Yeah, I understand that. I'm wondering, where is the room for something between Jane Eyre and Percy Jackson? You know, like, if you're going to Columbia and you just graduated high school and your favorite book is still Percy Jackson, like, what is happening in high school where there is not something in between that, you know, that is really hitting with high school students?

[A]

And I read so many in my high school curriculum. And from talking when we did that episode a long time ago about what do they teach in high school English today, it does sound like it's different. But I would say 90% of what I read in high school was dead white male authors.

[B]

Yeah, definitely.

[A]

So if that was the only reading I was doing, I would understand not coming out of it with a great love of reading.

[B]

Yes. I also think that something I really took away from the article was less the content of what is being assigned to them and more the attention span issue, where there's one person that said they can't even get through a sonnet, which, I guess it depends how boring the sonnet is. Also, who among us is, like, reading sonnets for fun? But that is true. That is an effect on all of us, of smartphone use. And it really made me think about, oh, like, I am so distracted by my phone. Like, I honestly cannot imagine getting anything done in high school. If I had had a smartphone, like I have now, like, there's no way, no way I would be able to focus on anything, let alone a book.

[A]

I totally get it. But I think that there's such a difference between reading something that you don't want to read and reading something that you enjoy.

[B]

Do you think there's value in reading things you don't want to read?

[A]

I do think so. It depends. Like, I think that it can be a valuable lens to learn about a historical context. So, you know, reading about World War II, I think reading in general is an empathy building experience. And so I think it's a different lens on history. Like, what value are you getting through reading Shakespeare? I guess appreciation of the fact that Shakespeare never liked Shakespeare, basically invented the core of every type of plot that exists in literature today. But I don't know, I guess I don't see a huge value. I wonder if for core or gen ed English, if it should be more geared towards reading appreciation. I googled what is the point of a college English class, which is such a silly thing to google. But one of the results that came up, the Google Smart result said English courses go far beyond writing essays and interpreting classic literature. You will use written and verbal communication in virtually every career. And learning English builds additional skills like critical thinking, empathy and cultural sensitivity. And so if that is the goal, I don't think you need to read Shakespeare to do that. And so I was kind of thinking, if you were building a curriculum for students who are not English majors and do not need to necessarily have this literature history underpinning their education, what book would you want to teach that kind of is that middle point between Shakespeare and Percy Jackson.

[B]

Ooh, interesting. Demon Copperhead is the first thing that comes to mind for me because I feel like it's this perfect example of incredible storytelling, incredible character development on a level I've never seen. Language also, it's based on a classic, David Copperfield, and at the same time it's this real commentary on a specific American issue that's real and happening and it gives you this view into this other world and builds empathy. I mean, I think it's per. If I could just do a class on that, I think that would be great.

[A]

I don't know how popular your class is going to be given how long that book is, but I agree, I agree with your reasons stated.

[B]

Thank you. Did you have something in mind or something that came up for you?

[A]

I had three that I thought would be really interesting. I mean, I think no book has had a bigger impact on contemporary fiction trends more so than Gone Girl. I think it's really interesting you could think about the role of an unreliable narrator. I think tying into A cultural context like female rage and the societal conditions that built to this being interesting to our society.

[B]

That class I would take immediately. And it's actually really interesting you say that because I saw a clip of an interview with Gracie Abrams who is 20, I don't know, 21. And it was with letterbox. And so she was naming her four favorite movies and the first one was Gone Girl. And the first thing I thought was I wonder if she has read the book or she only knows it in the context of the movie. I'm sure she knows it's a book but. Well, I'll be in that class, front row.

[A]

The other thing that I thought of was Kitchens of the Great Midwest by J. Ryan Straddle, which is. It reads almost as if it's interconnected short stories. It does come together into being a full novel but you don't necessarily know how the characters are connected as you're reading it. And so I think in that way it's easier to consume because it's like discreet stories. But so much of it has to do with food memories. And I think that's something that both you can connect to your own life. Everyone has different food memories. I think that's really interesting from a cultural context of who your parents are and what food traditions are passed down and especially if you maybe have immigrant parents and which food memories are unique to you versus like McDonald's, like the American childhood food cultural experience. I think there's something really interesting where it's like, I think so much of the role of being a reader is just like it is an empathy building experience. It's seeing other people's experiences. It's a way to see yourself reflected back in literature and process feelings that you have about either larger cultural things that are happening or individual experiences. And it's like a mirror to our world and our historical times. And I think there's a way to talk about all those things and also just close reading and analyzing something. I think there's a way to do that with all sorts of different texts that aren't necessarily Jane Eyre.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with you. I never heard of that one, but it sounds great.

[A]

Oh, it's so good. Oh, and the other one that came to mind was All My Rage by Sabaa Tahir, which is a YA book. So it's about high schoolers, so in terms of just age, proximity to a college student, but it's about children of immigrants and living in California in a town that's very impacted by the opioid crisis and by economic factors. And I think there's something really interesting there about similar to what you said about Demon Copperhead, just about a specific type of American experience that maybe most students going to Columbia might not have experienced firsthand. I'm really curious to hear what people say in the Geneva group because I almost didn't bring this because I was like, I'm not a teacher. I don't know anything about the whys of why we teach things. But like you initially reacted, you're like, this makes me scared for the publishing industry. And it's like I feel like there are more readers than ever. But that's happening outside the context of school.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, your perspective definitely did make me think about it differently than my knee jerk reaction, which was just like terror and kind of sadness.

[A]

Well, I saw a stat recently that historically they've said that the largest book buying population is older people. You know, it's like women whose children are out of the house. I don't know what age, like 55 plus or something, whose children are out of the house and or are retired. And that is the largest segment of the book buying populace. But I saw something that it was like now the audience of people. I wish I remember the number. It was like under 35 is larger than the segment of over 55 and.

[B]

They'Re all bad on paper listeners. That's the.

[A]

Yeah, we did that. We did that. No, but just like I do think that especially as genre fiction, like things like fourth wing and romance and thrillers have just become like, there's less shame around them with regards to it being a guilty pleasure. I feel like more people are discovering reading as a hobby.

[B]

Yeah. And I also think that we are fairly in the infancy of like the book talk of it all and books going viral, for lack of a better term. And so I think sometimes it can feel like everyone's reading the same five books. And of course it's always like that to agree. But I think TikTok kind of really emphasizes that, especially for a Gen Z audience. But I think as booktok and booktube and all these things start to expand, I think those titles are going to get more and more diverse and there's going to be room for a lot of stuff in between Shakespeare and Colleen Hoover, which I think is best, because that's what helps everyone find the books they like the most. Well, let's get into some en matter. Tell me what you are obsessed with.

[A]

Well, like I just alluded to in my last thing I listened to this episode of the Culture Study podcast hosted by Anne Helen Peterson, and she just did a whole episode about book talk. And her guest was a woman named Alyssa Morris who writes a newsletter called Romancing the Phone, which is all about trends on BookTok. And I thought this episode was fascinating. And I thought that the discussion and the level of discussion about book trends in terms of like, not dismissing readers of certain things, like, I just, I was fascinated by this. I think anyone listening to this podcast, I mean, I'm glad that they don't have a full book podcast because I would be jealous and scared all our listeners would leave. But like, oh my gosh, this episode is so good.

[B]

Oh, it sounds great.

[A]

What about you? What's your obsession?

[B]

I love this song called that's so True by Gracie Abrams. It really reminds me of some sort of a life change makeover montage in an early 2000s rom com for some reason. And it's just really fun to play in the car. And it's very catchy and just fun and I like it a lot.

[A]

Is this the song that we were listening to in the car over the weekend?

[B]

Yeah, that was the first time I heard it and I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting.

[A]

You commented on it.

[B]

Yeah. And then it kept showing up. Just I would see it places. Yeah. So then I started listening to it and I was like, oh, I actually really like this.

[A]

I was there for the discovery. Well, tell me what you read this week.

[B]

I read Casket Case by Lauren Evans, who is a podcast listener, and I really enjoyed this. It's like I was looking for something Halloweeny or spooky ish, which it's not. It's actually extremely cozy. It's a romance about a woman who falls in love with a man who works for death, like death as a business and she works for a casket store. And I thought it was just like the perfect light Halloween read. And it also had some really interesting themes about death in general, which I liked. And then. Drumroll, please. I finished the Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern, which again, was the perfect book to read in October.

[A]

I want a whole episode of your reactions. No amount of reaction to this is too much. I want to live vicariously through you getting to read this for the first time.

[B]

It was very fun. It single handedly made me go buy hot cider so I can then put cinnamon in it and drink it. And I really liked the ending as well. And it's long. It's long. I've been reading some long ones but it was good.

[A]

I wish this author had more books. She wrote a follow up called the Starless Sea, and I think that must have come out five or six years ago. But I would read her grocery list, like, anything.

[B]

Well, what did you read?

[A]

So I am like, three quarters of the way through Trust by Hernan Diaz, which is part of my backlist fall reading list. Have you read this one?

[B]

No. I've owned it for so long, and I read the first couple pages and I was a little bit overwhelmed and I stopped. But everyone says it's amazing.

[A]

I'm enjoying it so much, and it's not my usual fare whatsoever. So I think Grace was the one who was like, you need to read this. You will like this. It's about a very wealthy couple in 1920s New York. He is a kind of like the pinnacle of the finance industry in New York at the time. And the book is told in four different parts, and each part is a different perspective on his rise and how he accumulated his wealth. And the book is concerned with, like, what is the truth of that? And so it's really fascinating. And the thing that stood out to me so far, you know how we were talking about in the Bel Canto Book Club that one reason we didn't think we really liked it was because there was so little dialogue.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

So this book has no dialogue for the first 200 pages? None.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

I was so compulsively reading it, and so it was really fascinating to me how the story is woven together and how the story feels very pacey to me without any dialogue.

[B]

That makes me want to check it out again. I'll have to pull it out of whatever pile it's in.

[A]

Yeah, I'm like, three quarters of the way through it. I'm really enjoying it. And usually I wouldn't talk about a book until I was finished if I wasn't sure. But I've heard the ending of this book. Like, everyone says, the ending is so fantastic, so surprising. So I'm like, I feel confident.

[B]

Report back.

[A]

Also a Pulitzer. So, like, if I am the dissenter that doesn't like it, my opinion doesn't matter. And then I also read. I don't even know what to call it. It was published as a book originally, but it's only 39 pages. So, like a pamphlet. It's called the Getaway Car by Ann Patchett, and it's out of print now, but you can find a PDF online for free. And it is basically pitched as a writing craft book. There are very few tips in it. And she's not very authoritative in terms of like, this is how you write something. I would call it much more like her writer origin story. It's from 2011, so you know, it's after Bel Canto, but before some of her later big hits with the Dutch House and Tom Lake. But I loved this. I wish every author, in addition to saying that we want more annotated books, I wish every author had a 39 page primer on how they got to where they are.

[B]

Me too. I would read this for sure.

[A]

I'll send it to you.

[B]

Oh, thanks.

[A]

Would you like to tell us about our book club pick for this month?

[B]

Yes. Our book club pick for November is Be Ready when the Luck Happens by Ina Garten. This is her memoir you've probably been seeing everywhere. So you can read it, listen to it.

[A]

I've heard the audio's great. I've heard she's like a very endearing narrator and she like laughs at the text. It is very like. It's fun to hear from her. Yeah, I think I'm going to do that.

[B]

Well, join us. And join us in our Geneva group under Bound on Paper Podcast or our Facebook group, which is also under Bound on Paper Podcast. If you want to talk about any of this, share your hear me out or your theories about why kids are reading less or anything, Christmas, whatever, we're there and we're on Instagram at Batter and Paper Podcast. And I'm on Instagram oliviamentor and on Substack and all the things also under oliviamentor.

[A]

I am on Instagram ecamfreeman and on Substack. I am just under Becca Freeman with no M. So see you on the Internet.

[B]

Bye.