A (2:38)

Oh, I've heard about.

B (2:40)

Yeah, this is Lisa Barlow. She just thinks that she's better than everyone. It's really masking a deep insecurity. But that's a conversation for another day. Anyway, at one point she walks out and she's crying because of this fight that happens on the yacht. And she's on this like, dock. And it's like a floating dock off of the yacht. And all around her is illuminated. So she's. She looks like she's on, like, the set of an opera or something. I don't know how to explain it, but it's, like, so weirdly beautiful. And she's crying over nothing to her husband on the phone. And this other absolutely unhinged woman named Britney comes over and she's wearing, like, a gown, and she's kind of on her knees and the gown is spread around her. And I was just looking at it. I was like, you can't. You literally could not write this. It is so nuts and weirdly beautiful. I think there should be an opera version of it.

A (3:30)

Oh, like a Titanique kind of like parody opera.

B (3:34)

Exactly. Andy Cohen, Call me. And anyway, also, you can see all the fish swimming around them. It's just. I don't know how to describe this. It's just the most perfect episode of reality television. I watched it twice in one night. Oh, wow. I watched it by myself and then Jake came home and I was like, sit down, we're watching this. He didn't actually want to, but I do think he's grown to enjoy it. Anyway, it's just. Oh, God, it's such a good show. I don't even understand how it exists.

A (4:00)

You know, that I'm not a huge Housewives person, though I have dipped in to the new New York one. But I listened to Andy Cohen was on Call Her Daddy this week, and I thought the interview was so good. And I thought especially his career trajectory. And he was telling this about how things kind of went off the rails when they were doing the first season of Real Housewives, which was Orange county, and they almost scrapped it. And he was kind of in favor of just, like, pulling the plug. And there was just so much lore in it that was really fascinating. If you haven't listened to it, I would highly recommend it.

B (4:38)

I've seen clips of it. I think I need to because I just. I fully leaned into my fandom. I can't get enough of it. I find his career really interesting.

A (4:50)

Agree. I guess I didn't realize how much of a career he had before he became on air talent.

B (4:58)

I didn't know that either. Although I did see the clip where he says that he applied for a job at Logo and he didn't get it. And it's only because he didn't get it that he ended up at Bravo, which is just wild to think about.

A (5:10)

Yeah.

B (5:10)

But, yeah, he's built A wild thing. I also liked. I saw the clip where she said, what's the most high maintenance thing about you? And he was like, I have very specific hotel and flight requirements. And I was like, you know what? That's fair. I would, too, if I was that rich. Like, I found it weirdly endearing. I don't know why. Even though Lisa Barlow complaining about being in coach, like, disgusted me. I don't know.

A (5:35)

He was a good interview.

B (5:36)

He's.

A (5:37)

He was very chatty. He at least seemed fairly unguarded. I don't know how much of that is manufactured, but I really enjoyed it.

B (5:44)

Oh, I'll have to. I'll have to add it to my TBL to be listened. Yeah, tbl. Well, what's your high?

A (5:51)

I have two highs. My first high is that I got new author photos yesterday, and I'm so excited about them. It was such a positive experience. I had been wanting to get new photos and I wanted to slot it in before I got my last round of book feedback so that I wasn't trying to stress about both things at once. And I was pretty calm, cool, and collected about it until the day before. And it was supposed to rain yesterday. It was raining yesterday. And I was like, oh, is there going to be enough light? And I don't know. It's a big investment and I don't know. I wanted it to be worthwhile. And oh, my gosh, the experience was so positive. I loved the photographer. She sent the proofs right away last night, and so I've already seen some of them and I'm so happy with them and I'm just, like, really excited. So I think probably by the time this drops. Well, I don't know. She said maybe a week to edit. So. Coming soon. New Instagram photo.

B (6:55)

Yeah, I saw a preview of just one of them and it is so good. Like, you look absolutely gorgeous. So I'm so happy for you. That worked out because I feel like author photos are a lot of pressure.

A (7:05)

You know what was interesting? I was talking to some friends about it, and they asked if my publisher pays for them. And that's not my experience. I've never heard of it, maybe for some people, and they were really shocked by that.

B (7:22)

Yeah, I've never heard of that being the case at all. I mean, that would be nice, but no, it's like many things in author life, it is. It's just us.

A (7:30)

So that's half of my high. And then the other half of my high is that while we were taking these photos, it was Pouring, pouring. End of days raining. And as has happened a few times this year, my office window started leaking. And that has previously been where my printer is. And I. In the middle of the shoot, I saw that it was leaking. I went in and put a towel down. And I felt so smug about my decision to put my printer in the middle of my living room. I mean, it's up against the wall. It's not like, in the center of the living room, but because I cannot lose another printer. And so my printer has been marked safe from rain.

B (8:06)

That's important.

A (8:06)

And after how many printers I've lost this year, that felt pretty good.

B (8:10)

You're safe.

A (8:11)

Felt pretty good. Yep.

B (8:12)

Well, solid week all around.

A (8:14)

Solid week. What about on the low side?

B (8:17)

My low is I've just had a bit of an off week. I felt a little out of sorts. I haven't been sleeping very well. Winnie, like, pulled a muscle or something. She was doing zoomies. She had, like, all kinds of crazy moves out in the yard. I was like, what are you doing, girl? Like, just chill. And she just yelped unexpectedly. And so I was worried. But then she's walking normally, she's eating normally, drinking normally. And that's kind of the gauge I use for, like, is something really wrong or not? And she was jumping up on things, going up and downstairs.

A (8:49)

Where is the pulled muscle in her. One of her legs?

B (8:51)

It was my back leg. It was. I think she's fine now, but Jake was traveling, so it was just us at the house. And, like, that angers Winnie greatly as well. Like, she's obsessed with Jake, and I am just the person that sometimes gives her food. But she just didn't sleep well, and therefore I didn't sleep well. And so, you know, when you have one night of sleep that's off, it's not good. Then there was two nights and there's three nights. So I just didn't feel totally like myself. I felt a little bit, like, undisciplined when it came to work and, like, being on my phone and stuff. But I'm feeling better. I got some good sleep the past couple nights. So all's well that ends well. But. But, yeah, just a strange, strange week.

A (9:30)

I'm sorry. I feel like whenever my sleep is not good, I am a monster. So I fully understand.

B (9:38)

Yeah, it's. It really makes me marvel at how, like, new parents survive. Like, I just. I bow down to you guys. Like, it's impressive. But tell me your loan.

A (9:51)

My low is that I am fucking pissed about the imminent expiration of SNAP benefits. We're recording this on October 31st. They're set to expire on November 1st. I can't speak to anything that's going to happen in the next five days before the episode comes out. So excuse me if any of this is outdated or irrelevant, but I am so pissed that the current administration is using people's food benefits as a bargaining chip to get Democrats to end the government shutdown so that they can gut health benefits. Like, it's all so disgusting to me. I mean, I'm pissed about a lot of things that are happening politically, but oh my God, this is a new level. I have been donating to City Harvest, which is locally in New York City, and then also to Food bank nyc. And you know, you can look up your own local food bank who will be helping to fill those gaps in your own community. But oh my gosh, I am. I am so fired up about this.

B (10:57)

It's disgusting. And yet. Am I surprised? No, just continually disappointed. I can't believe we have so many more years of this. But anyway, great resources. I was just looking up what Feeding America is doing, but I feel like the local resources are probably more impactful. We should put them in the show notes so people can, you know, maybe make a donation. A few dollars here, a few dollars there.

A (11:21)

Absolutely. And don't feel like you need to donate to the resources we post. Like, find your own local community food bank too.

B (11:29)

Yes, definitely.

A (11:31)

Well, let us take a quick ad break and then let us get into some things.

B (11:40)

This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. As I was just saying, I had some of the worst sleep I've had in a while earlier this week, and one of the very first things I did to try to reset after that is to change my sheets to make my bed as clean and comfortable and fresh as possible. And I love putting Cozy Earth sheets on my bed. They are in constant rotation in my house, along with of course, their bubble cuddle blanket and their bamboo pajamas. I am really serious, as we all know, about my sleep and when it is interrupted, I find that resetting like this by pampering myself and making my bedroom a true oasis is something that just immediately helps me get right back on the healthy sleep path.

A (12:26)

I love Cozy Earth's bamboo pajama set. I think of them as my house guest pajamas. They are so comfortable, but they also look really put together. If I'm going to be staying at someone's house where I might be hanging out in my pajamas over breakfast, they're designed with a soft Stretch knit that drapes beautifully and sleeps degrees cooler than cotton. This lightweight set keeps you cozy without overheating. And it's perfect for holiday mornings, winter nights, and beyond. And these would also make the perfect gift for the holidays. Who doesn't want high quality pajamas? And I also appreciate that they have all of the different options that you can mix and match of long pants, shorts, long sleeves, short sleeves. So you can kind of get whatever you want. I have short sleeve and short set for the summer, and then I have short sleeve, long pants set for the winter.

B (13:17)

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A (13:47)

Lilia, why don't you kick us off here? I want to know your gossip thing. Can we start there?

B (13:51)

Okay, so I was reading Emma Straub's newsletter on Substack yesterday. Do you know what I'm about to talk about?

A (13:57)

I think so. I almost brought some of this too, but I didn't feel well versed enough in it to speak on it.

B (14:03)

Okay, there's only one thing I want to discuss. So essentially in this newsletter, she's talking about how as a, you know, popular bookstore in Brooklyn, they get a lot of celebrities in and she kind of gives them their anonymity. But she felt compelled to expose this one person. And if anyone has been following the new Lily Allen album, it is a lot about her tumultuous relationship and breakup and divorce with her ex husband, David Harbour. And she has a lot of accusations that are thrown around, you know, nothing of what actually happened there, but doesn't make him sound the best, I will say. And in Emma Straub's newsletter, she says that this man came into their store and when he did, used a fake name, which, honestly, I think if you were to put this man in a lineup in front of 99% of Americans, like most people would not know who he is. So it's really presumptuous of him, I think.

A (15:07)

I feel like he had some very viral fame from Stranger Things.

B (15:12)

Right. But like, does that still count? We're not in the prime Stranger Things years anymore. It's been 10 years.

A (15:20)

No, I would say a third of people could identify him at the height of Stranger Things.

B (15:24)

Or now.

A (15:25)

Now. No, really you think that's high?

B (15:27)

I think it's high.

A (15:28)

Okay.

B (15:29)

Maybe a third of people would be like, weren't you in something? But I don't think people would be like, oh, that's David Harbour.

A (15:35)

Okay.

B (15:36)

So I don't really know under what circumstances one would need to use a fake name.

A (15:40)

Maybe you're pre ordering for pickup.

B (15:43)

Maybe. Anyway, the name that he used, Emma shared was Doug Cheese, which.

A (15:49)

What an unflattering fake name, which is.

B (15:53)

Just the best and worst thing I have ever heard. And I can't stop thinking about it. And it made me wonder. If you were to have a fake name, like if you used a fake name when you checked into hotels, you're really famous in this scenario, obviously, and. Or at bookstores, as one does, what would you go with?

A (16:13)

I would pick favorite characters from books for sure.

B (16:17)

Okay.

A (16:18)

The first thing that comes to mind is the idea of you. I would say Solene Marchand. Like, what a chic name. Not necessarily great for spelling over the phone. Or somebody just being able to jot.

B (16:28)

Down, not as easy as Doug Cheese.

A (16:31)

Not as easy as Doug Cheese. No questions for Doug Cheese. But yeah, I would just pick book characters.

B (16:36)

Okay, what would you pick? I think I would go absurd, like Doug Cheese. I also think I would enjoy having a name where I don't have to spell it every time. Like, kind of like you were saying. Cause, man, spelling my last name on the phone to people is really annoying. Let me tell is not very pleasant. I'm like, there's a you there. It's. I don't know why. I think I would go with something like, I'm trying to think of all the names that, that Jake and I sometimes say to each other when we introduce ourselves as fake names. Maybe like Martha Von Slatterhorn.

A (17:11)

You don't think you have to spell Von Slatterhorn?

B (17:13)

I. I think it's clear. It's clear. That to me is like a powerful. I've always liked the idea. Maybe it's because I really like the Netherlands, like, of having a really Dutch last name. I think they're pretty cool. I don't even know if Von Slatterhorn is Dutch, but Martha Von Slatterhorn. Yeah, I think that would be mine. Like, or maybe a middle name like Martha.

A (17:38)

You need a middle name in this scenario.

B (17:40)

Martha Monique Von Slatterhorn. Wow.

A (17:43)

Wow.

B (17:44)

Specific.

A (17:45)

It's like I'm going to give you so many details that there's no way I could be lying.

B (17:50)

Exactly. Like, Doug Cheese is just like, okay, that's. I mean, I get it. But also, we could do better anyway, Doug Cheese. I just love that she was like, I'm going to expose him in this moment. And after this, if you're compelled, you can go listen to the song Pussy palace by Lily Allen. And a picture might form of this man, you know, allegedly of the alleged.

A (18:13)

Doug Cheese, or I guess the official Doug Cheese. The alleged actions of Doug Cheese.

B (18:18)

Doug Cheese.

A (18:20)

The ballad of Doug Cheese.

B (18:21)

The Ballad of Doug. That's perfect. That should have been one of the songs.

A (18:29)

Maybe she didn't know what alter ego he was using.

B (18:32)

I mean, she knew a lot. She knew a lot. So I hope that she reads this. I hope she sees it and she just has a good laugh. Has a real good laugh.

A (18:42)

Did you see that she got on substack this week?

B (18:44)

I did, I did. So maybe she will see the post.

A (18:48)

I know. I am such a Lily Allen fan. Like, I have loved Lily Allen since college. We have a very long one sided relationship.

B (18:59)

I respect her. I was like, you know what, tell your truth. Like, just put it out there. Because I just know exactly the type of man that she is describing in these allegations. And like the way that he was like, well, don't you have to audition for that role instead of just being handed it? Like, sir, who do you think you are? Like, Doug Cheese, get out of here.

A (19:21)

Get out of here, Doug Cheese.

B (19:23)

Get out of here, Doug Cheese.

A (19:25)

What a great thing to yell.

B (19:27)

It's true. Although if I was being yelled at, I think I would want to be yelled at as Martha Monique Von Slatterhorn.

A (19:33)

Of course you would.

B (19:34)

Yeah. Like, so, you know, maybe this will come back to haunt me if I'm ever canceled or, you know, maybe if.

A (19:40)

You get so famous that you need to use this pseudonym, people will just see right through it and they will be like, oh, you mean Olivia Mentor.

B (19:49)

Yeah. Also if I fail miserably as an author and I have to pitch a book under a pen name, you guys are going to know. No one else will know but Martha, Monique.

A (20:01)

There will be signs.

B (20:03)

There will be signs. Well, what's your first thing?

A (20:06)

I'm going to start with my podcast thing. So I would like to hear about your current podcast listening lineup because I feel like I've lost some shows that were my favorites and I specifically am looking for more and new writing podcasts. Okay, so tell me what you are listening to on a regular or semi regular basis. Across all things.

B (20:33)

Across all things. I'll tell you the ones that come to mind. So I love. It's mostly like I would say reading focused, but in terms of really good author interviews, I love the Book Gang podcast hosted by this woman named Amy, who has great taste in books but is just an incredibly thoughtful interviewer. And if you want to start somewhere, there is an episode that she has with Emily Haybeck, who's the author of Sharkheart. Everyone knows deeply love Sharkheart. And it was such a powerful interview that I cried. Oh, wow. And at the end of every episode, she asks the author what they are proud of right now. And I don't know why. There's something about that question that just always brings me such comfort. And I always think about, like, what am I proud of myself right now and my career and like taking that moment to reflect I think is so nice and generous of her. But it's just, it's a very. It's like a comfort listen with just really in depth, great author questions.

A (21:38)

Okay.

B (21:38)

I also love listening to Pen Pals, which I've talked about before, which is hosted by Chrisaran and Kelton. And this is all about the writing process. They are two writers who are trying to get published. So it's all about their journey, but it's also just about like, how to keep going in the face of rejection and how to stay inspired. And I really love that.

A (22:00)

I'm gonna check this one out. I've heard you talk about this a few times.

B (22:03)

Oh yeah, you'll like it.

A (22:05)

I feel like this maybe fills some of the niche that I'm looking for in terms of, you know, the day to day writing life as opposed to, you know, the author interview of reflecting back on a fully polished.

B (22:20)

Well, here's what you'll love the most about their episodes. Okay, so at the end of every episode they talk about their writing goal for the next week.

A (22:28)

Oh, I do like that.

B (22:29)

And then at the beginning of the next episode, they talk about how they did with that goal. And I really love that structure. I think it's so, so great. I think they're doing something really cool. I was like lucky enough to be a guest on it recently. I don't think the episode is out yet, but they let me be a part of the goals in the beginning, the end. And I felt like I was on the set of a movie I really liked. You know, it was co. Finally, I have a third one I think you're really gonna love. That is kind of new. Ish to me. I had heard about it for a really long time. It's called Glamorous Trash. It's Hosted by Chelsea DeVontes who is a writer, a comedian, and I've known her. Our books came out on the same day in 2024. So we connected that way. And I've seen that she has this podcast where she recaps celebrity memoirs, among other things she has guest hosts on and really just goes super deep on these memoirs. And I don't know about you, but I'm the kind of person where it takes me like 200 times of hearing about a podcast before I commit to listening to it for whatever reason. And so I recently started listening to it because again, I promise this is not a plug just for me. But I was lucky enough to go on and recap a book by one of the women on Sister Wives.

A (23:43)

Oh my God, Name a more perfect guest than Olivia Mentor. Talking about Sister Wives, I was super.

B (23:49)

Nervous, actually, because she does such an unbelievable job going so deep on these books and bringing her own personal experience into it and picking really interesting guest hosts. And I was just like, maybe I'm not the perfect person for this. I was. Afterwards, I was like, maybe I didn't do a good enough job. I was so nervous. If you want to start with an episode, I highly suggest the episode on Alison Stoner's memoir that we briefly mentioned last week in an ad. I was just blown away. Like, I was blown away by the level of thought put into these episodes. She is so funny and so smart, like, interesting. I was, like, trying to be on my best game when I was on the episode.

A (24:32)

But I'm listening to Lucas Gage's memoir right now called I Wrote this for Attention, and I wonder if there's an episode about that I can listen to once I finish the audiobook.

B (24:44)

There might be, or it might be coming up because they do like pretty much every major one. Even like Kevin Federline's audio only memoir they did recently and they just tore it apart and it was just a joy to listen to.

A (24:57)

Okay, this gives me some good ideas and listeners. I'm also super interested if any of you are fans of writing podcasts and have recommendations. I find podcast discoverability so difficult because, you know, there's not really a good. Like, the categories aren't super useful.

B (25:16)

Yeah, I agree.

A (25:18)

I think writing and book podcasts are all under arts, so it's much broader and it includes a lot of, you know, like the NPR shows, et cetera, which are great shows but are not what I'm looking for. And so using the charts or the categories is not the most useful.

B (25:33)

I find what's on your rotation right now.

A (25:36)

So I always listen to the Shooting the Shit episodes from the Shit. No one tells you about writing.

B (25:45)

Same.

A (25:46)

I'm obsessed. I love that series. It's two agents, Cece Lira and Carly Waters. Carly's been a guest here before, talking about kind of industry gossip and publishing trends, and I find it to be the perfect mix of juicy and helpful. So I love that I've phased out a little bit of the main podcast because I think it has a very big focus on querying and kind of selling your first book, and so I don't listen to that as much. I do tune into some of their author interviews, but I never miss the Shooting the Shit. It's like a special series of episodes within the main feed. I do listen to almost every episode of Books beach and beyond, which is Ellen Hildebrand's podcast. They just get such a good guests, and I feel like the conversations that they have about writing are so interesting. But that podcast is seasonal, so I think they do maybe like 10 to 12 episode seasons in the summers, and so it's not on right now. So that's kind of left a hole for me. I do tend to listen to a good amount of episodes of the Open Book With Jenna podcast, depending on the guest. Sometimes she interviews authors, sometimes it's other people, but she does get some really good authors on there, which I really like. And then I kind of bop in and out of the other people. With Brad Listy podcast, I find the conversations that he has with writers to be very interesting, but he skews incredibly literary, so I usually only listen to episodes with authors whose books I've read. I like the writer's routine podcast depending on the guest, but I do feel like because it's in the uk, it's just as frequent that I don't know who the guest is, but then there's others that I really like that have gone more spotty or sporadic. Like, I really like the writers on Writing podcast, but they've gone to replays every other week. I used to really like the Publishing Rodeo podcast, which is very gossipy, and they've all but stopped publishing, although they did have an episode last week, but it doesn't sound like it's going to be ongoing.

B (27:48)

You know, I listened to that one last night, and I understand why it's so negative. Like, I get it, but it's hard.

A (27:55)

It's hard. I would never recommend it as the only thing you listen to because it has such a pessimistic view of the publishing industry.

B (28:02)

It is. I'm like, oh, yeah, this hurts me, but it's honest. And I do very much appreciate that about them.

A (28:09)

Yeah. And I'm still mourning. I used to love this podcast called First Draft Pod with Sarah Ennie. And it. I mean, it stopped publishing probably three years ago, but that was such a good one. And the archives are still fantastic if you never listen to it and want to dive in. And then, you know, I'm also still mourning a thing or two with Claire and Erica, which was one of my not writing related, but just one of my every week auto listens. And, you know, that stopped publishing a few months ago. I know we have a lot of listener overlap, so there's a lot of listeners who are with me who are probably mourning that as well. But yeah, I'm looking for some new podcasts that I can get into and listen to. I want to be in, you know, I want to listen to, like every episode.

B (28:53)

Yeah.

A (28:54)

Oh, and we. I mentioned this at the top of the episode with youh High, but I've been listening to more Call Her Daddy recently. I don't have any particular affinity for Alex Cooper, but just the guests that she gets are insane. And so I listened to the Shonda Rhimes podcast that I mentioned a few weeks ago, and then this week I listened to the Andy Cohen one and I was like, I subscribed to it this week just to be like, oh, I want to have the option to see who the guest is if I want to listen.

B (29:23)

Yeah. I mean, people love it for a reason, right?

A (29:26)

Yeah. But I'm excited to check out Pen Pals on your recommendation. And hopefully also Glamorous Trash does an episode about Lucas Gage's memoir. I'm very curious to hear if listeners have other writing podcasts that they recommend.

B (29:38)

Yeah, let us know. I feel like they always, whenever someone posts, like, hey, I'm looking for more bookish writing podcasts, they always have suggestions. So, yeah, guys, let us know, please.

A (29:49)

All right, what's your next thing?

B (29:51)

My next thing, we're gonna go. We're gonna go spooky. Okay. Today's Halloween. Yep. I feel like I haven't really leaned into as much to the season as I usually do because it's been a really busy time for me. Like, I did get a lot of pumpkins, but not, I would say, like 50% less than in past years. But I was wondering, do you believe in ghosts and the supernatural? And I want to also ask about, like, psychics, astrology, all of that stuff.

A (30:18)

Do I believe in ghosts? I think 90% no. Okay, 10%. Sometimes you hear a story that's so wild that I'm like, well, maybe. What about you? Do you believe in ghosts? Can I just pause at something really quick?

B (30:34)

Sure.

A (30:35)

I'm gonna guess that you don't, because if you lived in the house that you live in and you believed in ghosts, I think your anxiety level would be a lot higher.

B (30:45)

Yeah. So I guess the easiest answer, like, if you had to. If I had to place a bet, you know, I would say probably, no, I don't believe in ghosts. However, like, I very strongly believe impossibility, you know, Like, I. I. Not to get super religious or anything, but I saw this clip from the actor from somebody somewhere. His name is Jeff. I forget his name.

A (31:09)

Yes, I love him.

B (31:10)

And they asked him a question, like, basically, do you believe in an afterlife? And he got really emotional and he said, like, I don't want to, like, have an existence where the possibility that my mother isn't seeing me succeed in this moment after all of these years of hardship isn't a possibility. Like, I choose that, you know, even if I'm wrong. And I think there's something really beautiful about that and something that resonates with me when it comes to the more supernatural, you know, side of things. Ghosts, astrology, all of those things. Not that astrology is supernatural, but a little more. Not based in science, maybe. So, like, I don't know. And with ghosts, there have been sort of, like, creepy things that have happened in our house. Like, sometimes I'll hear, and sometimes, I mean, like once or twice I've heard Jake say my name, but he didn't, or vice versa. But what's funny is, like, I'm never scared, ever. Like, I ever. Even if I'm here all alone, which I'm very, like, anxiety prone. So the fact that I like, you know, can't know what's in every closet or whatever, like, freaks me out. But when I'm there, I just feel very calm. I feel very at peace. And so I don't know if that's because ghosts aren't real or because I have friendly ghosts.

A (32:23)

Well, you've been a very steward of this house. So, you know, in terms of a house pride perspective, assuming the ghosts are former owners, they're probably very happy with you.

B (32:34)

I hope so. I did have this experience the other day where we. A few weeks ago, it was so nice that we usually had our front door open, like, all night, wide open, and then we have screen doors. But I mean, like, literally, like, overnight. Well, no, but I walked downstairs one morning and Jake was gone doing something. And I texted him and I said, did you open the front door at some point? Because we usually don't have it open at like 7 in the morning. And he said no. And I realized we had left it open the entire night. Wide, wide open.

A (33:06)

Wow.

B (33:06)

Like you could see in our hallway if you were to walk into our yard. And then I remembered that I had woken up in the middle of the night and look towards the door of our room and I had seen someone there.

A (33:20)

No, Olivia, no.

B (33:22)

I know. You know what's weird? I tell this. I've told this story to a couple friends and they freak out at this part, but even that. And like I. I was half asleep. You know, it's like one of those sort of, you're half asleep, half awake and you're. Oh. And like I kind of tried to wake Jake up and of course he's like, what are you doing? And then I put it together and I was like, maybe we let in a spirit from the cemetery across the street.

A (33:42)

Now do you feel like it was a spirit? Because in that scenario I would be more concerned about it being a serial killer who was alive than a ghost.

B (33:52)

I don't think it was a serial killer. I don't know. I feel. I don't know if it's just a false sense of security because I live in like a small town.

A (34:01)

I also, I mean, you read the Quiet Tenant. That's where over indexes on serial killers.

B (34:08)

I know. Well, listen, I'm a big woman. You want to try to take me down, good luck to you. I will fight you. But I will tell you. I was walking yesterday and this guy pulled up. He was in a pickup truck. He had like a. An old time newsboy hat. He's probably 75. Okay. He stops me, he goes, do you live in the old Asburnson house, which is the family that lived here like 50 years ago? And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. And he said, did you find any old medical equipment or stethoscopes that I could have there?

A (34:40)

What?

B (34:40)

Because the guy was a doctor who owned the house. And so I didn't really think anything of it. And we started, we Talked for like 25 more minutes about the town. And he's lived here for 50 years and all on and on. And then I came back to the house and I was like, how did we start talking? And then I was like, the stethoscopes. And that kind of freaked me out a little bit. But I don't know, it's not that I'm naive about, like, danger or anything. I just, for some reason, feel very safe here and I probably shouldn't anyway. There's creepy things all around. I do think about the Quiet Tenant often.

A (35:11)

I do, too. And I. I don't live in the type of town that book was set. This is why thrillers are hard for me.

B (35:19)

That's understandable. It really is. But any. What about, like, astrology and, like, psychics? Do you believe in that kind of thing?

A (35:27)

Okay, astrology, I think no. Which is funny because I do identify so much with my sign as a Virgo. But I think that's just a personality type or a collection of traits. I identify just as strongly with my Enneagram type, which has no bearing on when I was born under what moon? I think it's just more a way to tag one's identity than it actually being, you know, imbued.

B (35:58)

Right.

A (35:59)

Traits based on the position of the stars and the moon that you were born under. And then psychics. I think that most psychics are probably bs, But I have heard stories from people who. And especially I think it's even more tantalizing when it's a non believer who have had psychic experiences that are absolutely wild, that I do have to believe that there are some people who have tuned into some other frequency.

B (36:28)

Yeah, I'm with you. I kind of believe in, like, the possibility, but the majority, I would say, are probably, you know, it's scams.

A (36:38)

A friend of mine had a very wild psychic experience years ago, and we talked about this, and I was like, send me this psychic's information. And I've had this saved in the bottom of my inbox on, like, the main page of my email for literally years. And I'm honestly scared to make an appointment with a psychic. I'm scared of hearing them on something bad.

B (37:08)

Yeah. Can you tell them, Like, I don't want to know the bad thing. I'm sure you could if there's a bad thing.

A (37:14)

I'm sure you could. But then I would be worried about what bad things do they know about that they weren't telling me? I don't know.

B (37:20)

I think I've told you this. Once when I was living in the city, my friend visited me and we looked up psychics on Yelp, and we visited one, and we literally just ended up in this random brownstone in the Upper east side. And I don't think the woman lived there. It was unclear, but she was actually very good. Like, I. I don't Know, if I believe her totally, there's something about it that felt real. And if not, it was just very fun. To be honest, I spent money in worse ways just in the name of fun. But I kind of think that it's all like a tool to know yourself a little bit better. Like, what are the things you want to believe, you know, and why is that? And I feel the same way about astrology, I think. I don't know. I like believing that there's, like, room for magic, you know, even if it's, you know, statistically, like, probability wise, probably.

A (38:09)

Not real, you know, we had a. I think she would call herself a psychic on the podcast years ago, and we had been introduced to her through friends, and we thought it would be really fun to have her do. Maybe she was a tarot reader and she did a tarot scope, basically, I think that's what it's called, where basically she pulled a card for every sign of the zodiac to give a general reading on the year. So theoretically, every listener heard it. And then for Grace and I's signs, we had her pull three cards. And I don't remember what mine was, and I don't remember if it was very applicable, but in Grace's, she said that she was going to romantically reconnect with somebody from her past. And I remember afterwards, Grace and I kind of laughing about that because her saying something like, oh, my gosh, like, that would be a nightmare. Like, I don't want to. I don't want to romantically reconnect with anyone from my past. And that was the year that she reconnected with her now boyfriend, who was somebody who she had met at a dinner party years before. And it did end up having some truth to it.

B (39:17)

I kind of love stuff like that. It entertains and delights me. That's why I'm like. I kind of want to believe that maybe some of it is true. Yeah.

A (39:26)

On the psychic side, I. I feel like I've heard too many stories from people who I don't think are particularly inclined to find connections to make a reading true, who are more skeptical and have heard things and then that seem too random or bizarre to just be, you know, something that a psychic tells everyone. But, yeah, I think I'm. I think I believe in that. Not every single psychic, but some people.

B (39:55)

Yeah, I'm with you.

A (39:57)

Well, I think this is a great topical transition to our next ad for a thriller.

B (40:08)

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A (40:38)

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B (41:07)

As Carrie digs deeper into both cases, Brooke scrambles to cover her tracks and Eve's voice begins to rise from the past. Together, their stories unravel a web of lies, betrayals and long buried secrets that lead to the shocking truth of what happened to Eve. Shea brilliantly weaving scripted scenes with dialogue within traditional narration, Wendy Walker's the Room Next Door is a deeply immersive, richly complex, nail biting thriller. Follow every step and misstep. Brooke, Carrie and eve take don't miss Wendy Walker's new Audible original, the Room Next Door. Go to audible.com the Room Next Door and start listening today.

A (41:51)

All right, for my next thing, I have a guessing game. So I was listening to an interview with an author named Corey Doctorow who wrote a book called Insidification, which is about the life cycle and deterioration of tech platforms. On the newsletter the Honest Broker, which we've talked about here in a couple different contexts. They were the ones that had that great AI article that we talked about a few months ago with the rocks for dessert analogy. Anyway, during this interview he brought up a factoid that I had never heard before and it sent me down a rabbit hole. And the factoid may or may not be true. What do you think the most expensive liquid you can buy legally or without a special permit is? And the example he gave is a common thing.

B (42:48)

The most expensive liquid you can buy without a permit.

A (42:53)

Like you can just go to a store and buy. You don't need to have.

B (42:56)

Go to a store. Yeah, okay, I was thinking like Lava.

A (43:00)

I don't know what the Lava resale market is.

B (43:02)

I'm like, because you wouldn't need a permit, but there'd probably be some strategy involved. Liquid. Hold on. I'm gonna get this. Maybe I'm not gonna get this. Like, juice.

A (43:13)

I don't know. Juice.

B (43:17)

I'm thinking of a grocery store. Like an erewhon. Cold pressed bullshit. Electrolyte. Watermelon. I don't. I have no idea. I don't. I'm thinking. I don't think I'm thinking the right way for this. So just tell me.

A (43:32)

Think about the context of the podcast. The podcast is about tech platforms. Does that bring you any anywhere?

B (43:42)

No, I. Are we talking about, like, water?

A (43:45)

Like. No. So the example that he gave or when he used this factoid, it was about printer ink, which, because it's sold in such small quantities, printer ink is up to $12,000 per gallon.

B (44:01)

Okay, that does make sense.

A (44:04)

It kind of blew my mind. So then I went on this rabbit hole to look up if this was true, and I found this article on how stuff works. And it. So who knows if that's a very reputable source, but it had a few others that were more expensive than it. But, like, under what context would you be buying it? So the most expensive.

B (44:23)

Lava.

A (44:24)

No, it's scorpion venom.

B (44:26)

I mean, I feel like those are.

A (44:28)

In the same bucket, which apparently it's used in medication development.

B (44:33)

Oh.

A (44:34)

And I was like, well, can I just buy this? And, I mean, I looked it up this morning. I didn't. I didn't actually try to buy it because who. I'm not putting my credit card in there, and I don't need. Well, so scorpion venom is up to $39 million per gallon. So I found this website. It seemed like a science lab distributor, and they were selling it. It was $1,500 for 10 milliliters, so, you know, like drops of it. So it does seem like I, as a regular citizen, could buy it. Is it legit? I don't know.

B (45:08)

Good to know.

A (45:09)

I don't know. It's good.

B (45:10)

I'll tuck that in the back of my brain.

A (45:12)

The top was scorpion venom. Second was king cobra venom, which is $153,000 per gallon. Then horseshoe crab blood. I didn't even get into why one would need horseshoe crab blood. But it's $60,000 per gallon.

B (45:26)

Okay.

A (45:27)

Then insulin. $13,000 per gallon. But insulin, I feel like you need, like, it's not a permit, but you need, like, a prescription. I can't just. I mean, maybe on certain places on the Internet I can just buy. But, you know, I would say that's not a normal person thing. And Then the one thing that they had above printer ink, which I think is a weird, weirdly too specific thing, is they said Chanel number five up to $26,000 per gallon. But I was like, yes, I can imagine. There are definitely more expensive perfumes than Chanel, but I can imagine. Very specialty perfume. If you gross it up to the gallon, that could be very expensive.

B (46:04)

What if you mix them all together? Oh, God. What would you get?

A (46:08)

What would you do with that?

B (46:10)

I'm making a very expensive soup. That will certainly kill you.

A (46:14)

Wow. Is this your serial killer origin story?

B (46:18)

Yeah, I think it would be cool. That's the. What. Is that what you choose? You know, just. You'd have a whole backstory. I wanted to choose the most expensive liquids in the world. Surprise. It's not lava or watermelon water. And you know, that's how you killed the people. I don't.

A (46:36)

I think we've learned that if Olivia serves you. Soup run.

B (46:41)

Yeah, I mean, it's soup season, but this redefines soup season. I think maybe this is why she.

A (46:47)

Isn'T giving away those stethoscopes, because she needs it to check if she's really killed you.

B (46:52)

Yes.

A (46:52)

Or just put you into a very deep slumber. But this whole thing started. Printer ink, $12,000 per gallon. That blew my mind.

B (47:00)

I haven't thought about expensive liquids this much ever in my life. Same. So I'm accessing a part of my brain that has. It's been dormant forever, and that's why I'm really struggling to comprehend this.

A (47:11)

But now it's awake, and you're using it for evil.

B (47:14)

I have a laser printer now, so unshackled by the chains of printer ink.

A (47:18)

Just getting the screwdriver.

B (47:19)

It feels great.

A (47:20)

Just get this girl some scorpion venom and she's ready.

B (47:23)

I'm ready. Yes. Now, if each of your fingers was a dispenser of one of the most expensive liquids in the world, which ones would you choose?

A (47:32)

I don't think I need any of them.

B (47:35)

I would choose the king cobra venom.

A (47:37)

Because that's defense mechanism, I assume, at any point.

B (47:41)

Yes. Like in if I was walking, someone tried to kidnap me, we're done. Because, surprise, you're dead anyway. I'm just kidding.

A (47:51)

Or are you.

B (47:53)

What was your.

A (47:53)

What was your fake name again?

B (47:55)

Martha Monique Von Slatterhorn.

A (47:57)

Yeah, Martha Monique Von Slatterhorn, Queen of the vipers, World's bougiest serial killer.

B (48:04)

Listen, it sounds great.

A (48:05)

Martha Monique Slatterhorn's million dollar soup. Tell me you wouldn't Listen to that podcast.

B (48:12)

It's already taking shape in my mind. It sounds entertaining, informative and deranged. Creative and deranged.

A (48:19)

Okay, what's your last thing here?

B (48:21)

My last thing is habits. I would like to know what is one new habit that you have developed this year that you like and you want to keep and one new habit you've developed this year that you are not a huge fan of and you would like to kick to the curb.

A (48:37)

Oh, okay. You go first while I think.

B (48:41)

Okay. So the new habit I would like to keep is that. And this is one of my goals for the year, but I have really been dedicated to exercising regularly, and it has felt really nice. I have walked, I feel, like, thousands of miles around my neighborhood. I have developed, like, a weightlifting routine that's very easy. It's just like 20 minutes, three days a week. I'm really proud of myself because I just feel really good, and it's just helped my mental health. So I really like that. And it's taken me, like, a few years of living here to find what works for me and what works for me in this, like, season of my life. So cool. A habit I would like to get rid of. I know I came up with this topic, and then I was not prepared with my answer, but I figured it would just come to me. A habit I would like to get rid of. I will say that I have not been the best about cooking this year. For the most part, I've had stretches where I'm cooking a lot, and I've had stretches where I'm not. And I always feel slightly better when I am cooking. So I think I would like to be a little more disciplined about not eating out as much just because it is so expensive. Honestly, like, so, so expensive. And then also in the past few months, I've been online shopping a lot more than usual, and it hasn't been great for my credit card bill. So I think both of those I'd like to work on. What about you?

A (50:04)

Okay, so I would have said, but I have fallen off this habit, so I will tell on myself. I have stopped doing duolingo, and I was doing French duolingo every day when I wasn't traveling, and I really feel that I was learning a lot, and I really liked that habit. But then things got kind of busy at the end of the summer, and I let it fall by the wayside. So I would have said that. Oh, you know what? I would say this is the first year. I mean, I guess technically starting in September of last Year I've started regularly long form journaling. It's not an everyday practice, but I would say that I'm doing it definitely every other week, sometimes weekly and sometimes multiple times a week depending on my emotional state. And I have enjoyed it tremendously as both a way of documenting my life and then also as a release of big emotions. So I would really like to hold on to that. I'm like halfway through a pretty large journal and I'm so proud of that because you know how much journaling FOMO I've had in the past. So I would really like to keep that. And then. Oh, you know one thing that I have been thinking about for Black Friday, I would like to kick my phone out of my bedroom. And so I guess the habit would be before bed or first thing in the morning, social media or email checking. And I'm very interested in one of those like techy alarm clocks. Like I think. Oh, not one of the, not one of the light ones. So the two features that I'm looking for is I've gotten pretty into brown noise this year.

B (52:03)

I love brown noise.

A (52:05)

So I want something that has a noise machine function. And then I don't quite trust an analog alarm clock. I want something that I can set using a phone app or that, you know, comes up digitally. It like tells me what the alarm clock time is so I don't mess up the AM PM thing. Like I have a really simple alarm clock right now and figuring out if it's on, which alarm is set, what time it's set for is like not intuitive. So those are kind of like the two functions I'm looking for the light of it all. I sleep with a sleep mask, so I don't really care about the hatched like wake up, gentle light function. But yeah, I'm thinking of buying one of those on Black Friday if they're on sale, if I can find a good deal. And I'd like to kick my phone out of my bedroom.

B (52:52)

That seems like a great goal. Yeah, I keep mine like on my dresser if I'm disciplined, but probably only about 50% of the time. But even that helps, just keeping it out of reach.

A (53:02)

Well, I'm not ready to do that because then I'm usually a one snooze person. And so then I have to get out of bed.

B (53:09)

Right.

A (53:09)

That's not a habit I care to change. I want to be able to like hit my snooze without getting out of bed.

B (53:14)

Okay. So sorry, when you say kick your phone out of your room Like, I.

A (53:18)

Would charge it in the kitchen overnight. Yeah. So I would buy an alarm clock, one of those fancy alarm clocks that has a brown noise feature that has an alarm clock that I trust that would.

B (53:30)

Right.

A (53:30)

Be in my bedroom.

B (53:32)

Yes, I get that. I guess I wasn't understanding how that's different from keeping out of reach. Oh.

A (53:37)

Because I want to be able to just reach over and hit snooze. I don't want to have to get out of bed.

B (53:42)

I see. Okay. Yes. The alarm. We're talking about the alarm specifically. Yeah. Okay, I gotcha. Yep. Well, what's your final thing?

A (53:49)

So my final thing is my seasonal thing. And I think we've talked about part of this, but I don't think we've talked about the second part. So do you identify as a pumpkin or an apple or a. Neither or an other fall person?

B (54:05)

This is triggering me because it's making me think of the potato or the bird thing.

A (54:10)

Well, no, just, you know, this is a. I know. Taste preference thing. And then I would like to know, within your preferred flavor profile, what are the fall treats that you most look forward to?

B (54:23)

Scent wise, I think pumpkin has the slight edge. Okay, Slight. Taste wise, I'm more apple.

A (54:32)

Okay. What are we looking forward to in there?

B (54:35)

I love a cider. Hot cider, chilled cider. Apple cider donut. I love that.

A (54:41)

Oh, do you remember last year you brought me to that ice cream place that had apple cider donut ice cream sandwiches? Oh, my God.

B (54:50)

Oh, yes, fortunes. Yeah, we went there the other day. It's very delicious place. I haven't had an apple cider donut. Actually, you know what? I'm getting one today. I'm going to Golden Harvest and getting one.

A (55:01)

Oh, I wish you could get one for me.

B (55:03)

I'm putting it on my to do list. And I'm gonna get a cider, like a cold cider. Oh, it's so crisp and so. Just deliciously sugary. I also really like a pumpkin bread, though. I like a banana in the form of a banana bread. Pumpkin bread, or like pumpkin seeds on the little. The crispy, sugary crust. So those are some of my treats. I'm not a big pie person, so, like, pumpkin pie. Fine. Apple pie, fine. Yeah. You're apple, right, though? Right? It's through and through.

A (55:31)

I'm. I'm anti pumpkin. I'm apple.

B (55:34)

Apple. Wow. Shots fired.

A (55:36)

And taste wise, I love a Macintosh apple. I don't know if that's a particularly popular apple choice. Cause I think it can skew a little Mealy. But I love a Macintosh apple.

B (55:48)

A mealy apple.

A (55:50)

It depends what level of mealy, because I do think a Macintosh apple is a softer apple. Maybe mealy's not the right word, but it's not as crisp as, like, a honey crisp apple.

B (56:00)

A soft apple is just nothing for me.

A (56:02)

Oh, I love an apple.

B (56:03)

Like, if I touch an apple and it's even a little soft. Goodbye. Going in the compost. It has to be crisp.

A (56:10)

Okay.

B (56:11)

Crunchy.

A (56:11)

Okay. It is still crunchy. I don't know. I love a Macintosh apple. I agree with you on apple cider. Every year for friendsgiving, I usually make an apple cider cocktail with, like, bourbon and apple cider. And then I usually do club soda. I think you could do ginger ale, but it's. That's a little too sweet for me with, like, a cinnamon stick and some, like, thinly sliced apples as garnish. And I love that.

B (56:39)

Nice.

A (56:40)

I really like. I agree with you. I'm not a huge pie person, but I love an apple crisp. Love an apple crisp with, like, that crumbly topping. Oh, my God.

B (56:50)

I do love the crumbly topping. Yeah, me too. Texture wise, that's good for me.

A (56:55)

So my friend Merit for mahjong two weeks ago made these salted caramel apple pie bars, and it was a recipe from Sally's baking addiction. Oh, my God, these were so good. It was basically like a shortbread on the bottom and then apple pie filling in the middle and then a crumbly topping with, like, a caramel drizzle on it. Oh, my God. It was one of the best fall sweet treats I've ever had.

B (57:28)

That sounds divine. That sounds delicious.

A (57:30)

It was so good. And it skewed more portable apple crisp to me than pie.

B (57:36)

I like that. Yeah. The balance is important because, like, I do like the filling of an apple pie, but I like the other parts more. Like, I like the crumbly parts, the crusty parts. Yeah. So I feel like if it was more balanced and equal, I would like it.

A (57:50)

Oh, my gosh. This. These were so good. I'm not a big baker. I don't like following instructions to the letter, which is kind of a prerequisite for baking. But I could see myself trying to make these at some point.

B (58:04)

That sounds really good. You know what I had the other day that I've never had before, and it was delicious. What? It was a tiramisu, but instead of, like, the lady fingers, it was a cornbread. Now, I'm. I know that sounds actually insane. I quite picture that we went to this place. I'll do a shout out because it was so good. Called Hilltown Hot Pies in Great Barrington in Massachusetts, including incredible food. Incredible food. And this was the dessert. I do not like tiramisu at all. And I was so full. I could only have one bite because I had. We got like six pizzas. It was out of control. There's four of us pizzas.

A (58:37)

It's not a pie place. I was thinking it was like, oh, sorry. Yeah.

B (58:41)

Yes, it's pizzas. But this is one of their two desserts. And the server was like, you have to get this. And so it was unbelievable. If you're in the area, you should go. Since we're talking about desserts here.

A (58:51)

Well, those have been our things. Should we take one more ad break and then transition into some end matter?

B (58:57)

Yes. This episode is sponsored by Quint. As the air turns crisp and the holidays draw near, comfort becomes the best gift of all. Quince delivers layers that last. Sweaters, outerwear, and everyday essentials that feel luxurious, look timeless and make holiday dressing and gifting effortless. And have I mentioned the pumpkin cardamom candle yet? Yes. Quince makes candles and they are excellent. This pumpkin cardamom candle is probably the best fall candle I have discovered in years. And it burns perfectly. I can't emphasize enough how good of a gift this candle or any of Quince's candles would make. Quince really does have it all. They have 50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters made for everyday wear, denim that never goes out of style, silk tops and skirts, and basically every type of outerwear that you could want to take on the coming seasons. These pieces are perfect for gifting or upgrading your own wardrobe. Every time I go to Google a certain staple piece that I'm in search of right now, Quince pops up with just what I am looking for. And I love knowing the quality is going to be so good every time. So step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished and last. From Quince, perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to Quince.com BoP for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com B O P to get free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Quince.com BoP well, what are you obsessed with?

A (60:47)

Okay, I am obsessed with. Have you ever shopped on the RealReal before?

B (60:52)

I have not. I've sold things on the realreal before.

A (60:56)

Same same. I have consigned things on the realreal but I've never shopped there because I find it extremely overwhelming. I know Grace has shopped there and gotten some great finds, but I find it too overwhelming. But I was looking for a specific coat. So I bought this coat from Vince probably five years ago and it's one of my favorite coats. And when I bought it, it was expensive. It was probably like $500. And the price of the coat has gone up. And I would say now the coat is like $800 or $900. And I can't quite justify that. But I need a new black coat. And so I was like, oh, I wish I could get this coat. So I looked for it on the real real and I found the exact coat and it was $160 and it came and I don't even know if it had been worn. It doesn't have tags on it. But the vent in the back still had the stitches in it. So I don't think it had been worn or if it had it not extensively. And I am so happy. I feel like I got away with something finding a deal on this coat. There is one slight problem which is that the coat is not actually black. It is navy. It's a very dark navy, but I'm not mad about that.

B (62:14)

And you thought it was black.

A (62:15)

It was sold as black. And then I wore it earlier this week with a black sweater and I was like, nope, this is navy.

B (62:20)

But well, it's such a good deal still.

A (62:22)

I needed a dark color coat. I don't have a navy coat. And I was like, this is fine. This still fills the hole.

B (62:28)

I'm gonna look there because there is this coat that I saw an influencer wear the other day and I have never had such an absolutely intense reaction to item of clothing. And I think it's sold out. But maybe it's on the real real. I don't know. Does the brand cost?

A (62:42)

Oh, yeah, maybe.

B (62:43)

I don't know if that's high end enough. But to be on the real real. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna check there because I was like, I need this coat immediately.

A (62:51)

I wanna say that I think maybe specifically there are deals to be had on dark color coats because their photography is not great. They do it on a mannequin and on a black coat. You can't see any of the details. So they all just look like black. And so if I did not know specifically what coat I was looking for and I could tell by the shape of the lapel, that this was the correct coat because it doesn't have the item name. It was just called Vince Black Coat. I wouldn't have been able to differentiate it. So, yeah, I think the secret is like going in looking for a specific thing.

B (63:30)

Okay, that's good to know. It's very good to know.

A (63:33)

What about you? What is your obsession?

B (63:35)

I am obsessed with this season of Dancing with the Stars and I have never been into the show, but here I am.

A (63:41)

That's what I was gonna ask. I feel like this show, this season is having a renaissance. I all of a sudden know so many people who are into it. Who was the contestant that brought you in?

B (63:56)

You know, that's a good question. I mean, I do watch Mormon Wives and so I was kind of interested in that part of it. But I also like Robert Irwin because I'm like a human being and who doesn't like Robert Irwin. But I don't know why. I just think there was something about the mix of contestants. Oh, wait. Also Danielle Fishel from Boy Meets World.

A (64:14)

Oh, yeah.

B (64:14)

Who I love. And everyone knows I love Boy Meets World and Pod Meets World. Although I kind of stopped listening these past. This past year or so. I just like her as a person. She seems so cool and it was just an interesting cast and people kept talking about it. We have YouTube TV right now for once because of football season. And so I put it on and you know, the thing is, it's so low stakes. Like it just doesn't matter. You know, it's a competition and they are competitive, but like, at the end of the day, who cares? Like, no one is really getting scored below a six that I've seen. Like, everyone seems super into it and committed and there's a lot of people that are very good. And it's just like, it's just silly and entertaining and light and I just like need that. And it's light in a way that like Real Housewives isn't.

A (65:02)

Somehow Real Housewives is stressful.

B (65:05)

It can be. Yeah, it can be. It also, like, doesn't matter at all. But I think the thing about Dancing with the Stars is it's very like, positive. Even the judges feedback is like, even when it's bad, it's kind of nice, you know, And I just like it. It's just a fun watch. Well, what have you read?

A (65:24)

Okay, well, I finished Kiss of the Basilisk by Lindsay Straub, which I had started last week. That is my insane snake shifter smut book. For a book that has its first sex scene in the first 10% of the book. I was like, where do you go from here? You know, how do you raise the stakes? How do you keep somebody interested? She did it. She raised the stakes. It was wild. Look, I think that you either have heard me describe this and you're like, I want to check this out. Because you think it's ridiculous because you're like, you like a smutty Romantasy book, or you're like, becca has lost it. And I think that is absolutely right. Like, follow your gut instinct. You either know that this is for you or not for you. I'm not here to sell you. I'm just here to tell you of its existence.

B (66:15)

What's the most out there thing?

A (66:18)

We'll have to bleep this because it's a spoiler.

B (66:20)

Okay.

A (66:21)

But I'll tell you, Olivia, that at one point, she does have.

B (66:30)

Have to. She has to. Uh huh. Okay. All right.

A (66:35)

I think I will be reading the next book. I'm not ready to do it back to back, but I think, yeah, I think I will read the next book. I gotta know.

B (66:45)

Yeah. Okay. Well, enjoy. Thank you.

A (66:49)

So I read that and then after that I read Female Fantasy by Iman Harir Rekia, who was the person who recommended this book to me, and you had previously read this book. And this book is a capital C caper. It's really fun. It's two books in one. It's a contemporary romance about a girl who is very obsessed with this romantasy series and she compares every man that she dates to the hero of this series and nobody measures up. And then there's also a fake Romantasy. It's like a light parody of a romantasy about mermaids that is also, you know, like about half the book. I thought this was so fun. I thought it had some really poignant insights about the romance genre and about romance readers and about how dismissed the genre gets. Yeah, it's really fun. It's a little kooky. I think a good litmus test for this book would be if you enjoyed Jane and Dan at the End of the World by Colleen Oakley and you like that kind of Scooby Dooish capery type novel. Like it's not taking itself too seriously. I think you'll like this.

B (68:07)

Yeah, it's a romp.

A (68:09)

It's a romp. Yeah.

B (68:10)

Well, I read Sister Wife by Christine Woolley Brown, who is one of the former wives on the TLC show Sister Wives, which has been on for 19 seasons. If you are not aware, which is a long ass time. Christine is the first of. Of Kody Brown, who is the husband, the first of his wives. There are four of them. She's the first to leave him since this. Two more have left him. So now he's down to just one. And he barely deserves that, if we're being honest.

A (68:40)

So, and where does she fall in your preference ranking of sister wives?

B (68:45)

She is my second favorite. My favorite is Janelle, who is heavily featured in this book because Janelle and Christine are very good friends. But I read this book. It's been on my radar for a very long time. And I read this book to recap it with Chelsea on the Glamorous Trash podcast, which was an honor, although I hope I did it justice. Anyway, if you want to hear my very in depth thoughts about this, definitely listen to that episode, which should be out. I think. I think it should be out by the time this episode comes out, if not soon after. But, you know, this is all about her experience growing up in this really specific community of fundamental Mormonism, which is different than LDS church, I should say. And she comes from sort of like Mormon royalty and like polygamous royalty is how it's described. And so it's about that and how she met Cody, her experiences with him. She came in as the third wife, which was always what she wanted. She wanted to come in as a third wife because the second you're upsetting the, you know, the monogamy, but the third, you can kind of just skate in. It didn't work out so well for her, but it's all about kind of discovering like just how much of a monster Cody is. She doesn't use that word. That's my word. And just like the absolutely terrible things that Cody said to her and her experience of just breaking away from that, which I think is super brave because I always think about how hard it is for people to leave terrible men. But imagine like you have three other wives who are choosing to stay and you have to be the one that's like, I'm going, you know, and I'm breaking up this family. And anyway, I'm glad she did. She's since gotten married and fallen in love and seems very happy. I did have some problems with the book.

A (70:36)

Marriage. Polygamous.

B (70:38)

No. Okay. They are monogamous. I, yeah, I have some problems with the book. I mean, it's hard to like judge a memoir because it's someone's story, but it wasn't a perfect book to me. I think the show was more entertaining, but there is a lot to unpack. So anyway, if you want to hear everything, go to that episode. But overall, I think if you like Sister Wives, you'd find it, you'd find it an entertaining read.

A (70:59)

Okay, well, if none of those books appeal to you, we also have our November book club pick, which is our last book club of the year because we only do a short month in December and then we take a little holiday break. So we will be reading the Correspondent by Virginia Evans, which is a book completely told in letters about a woman who is a retired lawyer. And she writes to everyone. She writes to her family members, she writes to her neighbor down the street, she writes to past colleagues, she writes to authors whose books she loves. And you would not expect this to be a terribly plotty book based on that, but it is. And this book is so different than anything I've read. And this book is also a word of mouth sensation. It came out earlier this year and has really been kind of like slowly but surely gaining traction based on bookseller recommendations, reader recommendations in a really cool way. And I'm excited to discuss it. I think it's a great book. Olivia said last time for this time of year there's a lot of plot threads about difficult family relationships. So you know, heading into Thanksgiving, I think that's a nice topic. And yeah, yeah.

B (72:20)

And if you want to talk to us about your writing and reading podcast you love and recommend or any of the what we've discussed today, you can join us in the Facebook group which is under About On Paper Podcast. We're also on Instagram @batonpaper podcast. We have a group chat room under Bow and Paper podcast which is on the BFF app formerly known as Geneva. And I am on Instagram at Olivia Mentor. I am also on substackiviamentor, not Martha Monique Von Slatterhorn, but keep that name in mind cause you never know.

A (72:51)

What if she's running a parallel social media profile as Martha Monique Von Slatterhorn?

B (72:58)

Who knows? I'm just planting seeds now. Planting seeds. You can also pre order my second novel, Little One, which comes out in February. And if you are interested in pre ordering a signed copy, that is now an option as well. And you can find that link at the Rough Draft Bookstore website or my personal website. And I appreciate your time.

A (73:23)

And after you're done getting your pre orders for Olivia's book Little One or your signed pre orders, I am on Instagram ecamfreeman and my newsletter is@beccafreeman.substack.com and we will see you next week.

B (73:35)

Bye. Bye.