Bad On Paper Podcast: "October 2025 Three Things"

Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter
Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Episode Overview

In this fall-themed episode of Bad On Paper, Becca and Olivia dive into October’s “Three Things”—a relaxed, thoughtful format where the hosts each bring a few topics to discuss. The episode is a blend of bookish discoveries, personal highs and lows, deep introspection about writing, and reflective chatter, all set to a cozy, seasonal tone. Notable topics include their favorite underhyped book picks, the lasting impact of plot twists, the emotional rollercoaster of creative work, and the evolving structure of their careers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Highs and Lows of the Week

• Becca’s High: Saw "Death Becomes Her" on Broadway (00:35)

  • Despite an understudy in a lead role, the show was "so funny, so campy, so good."

    “By virtue of this being my high, you can tell I was, like, so blown away.” — Becca (00:46)

• Olivia’s High: Returned to the Outer Banks for the first time in years (02:26)

  • Beautiful weather, time with family, walks, shell-collecting, and a memorable stop at her favorite Hatteras bookstore, Buxton Books.
  • Had a “full circle author moment” when the owner recognized both her and her published work.

    “I’ve ascended to the dreams of my younger teenage self.” — Olivia (05:20)

• Olivia’s Low: Faced rejection from a writer's residency (05:46)

  • Set a goal to normalize rejection and challenge herself to apply for things with uncertain outcomes.

    “I think I just wanted to put myself out there in a way where I knew there was a very black and white chance that I was either going to hear a yes or a no.” — Olivia (07:33)

  • Bounced back quickly and appreciated being “a little bit less sensitive to rejection.”

• Becca’s Low: Feeling out of sorts due to lack of routine (09:06)

  • Several weeks of broken routines due to travel, visitors, and incomplete reading habits.

    “I just feel very out of sorts in a way. And I think a lot of it actually has to do with that I haven’t had time to read a lot.” — Becca (09:11)

Three Things

1. Underhyped Book Pitches (11:40)

Each host recommends two favorite books from 2025 they feel deserve more buzz:

• Becca’s Picks:

  • Any Trope But You by Victoria Levine

    • Contemporary romance set in snowy Alaska, featuring a canceled romance author and self-aware use of romantic tropes.

    “This is like such a fantastic contemporary romance. … As the weather is getting colder and as people crave cold weather books, here’s one that you might have skipped in April when you were wanting summertime books.” — Becca (14:49)

  • Loved One by Aisha Muharrar

    • Blends emotional mystery, romance, and drama as a jewelry designer unravels secrets about her late best friend.

    “It kind of defies genre classification … it’s billed as an emotional mystery, which I really liked.” — Becca (17:03)

• Olivia’s Picks:

  • Tilt by Emma Petit

    • Taut survival story about a highly-pregnant woman caught in a catastrophic earthquake while shopping for baby furniture.

    “It is so emotional and so tender because it’s all about this woman and her unborn child and the relationship with her partner and the relationship between the three of them, what it will be.” — Olivia (19:26)

  • Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild

    • A wild blend of thriller, domestic drama, and love story following a couple navigating surrogacy and shocking life twists.

    “It is intense and it is so cinematic. ... It’s very over the top, but you can’t stop watching it.” — Olivia (22:59)

2. The Lasting Power of Plot Twists (24:30)

• Standout Twists:

  • The Safekeep by Yael van der Wouden — praised for its late, game-changing twist (25:52)

    “It almost feels infinite jestian in that it makes you want to go back and read the book again.” — Becca

  • Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn — the archetypal twist that defined a genre, with readers remembering exactly where they were when it hit (25:56, 26:34)

• Discussion: How social media (Bookstagram/BookTok) impacts the “purity” of experiencing a twist.

  • Olivia wonders if knowing a book contains a big twist affects the shock value, referencing Finding Grace as a current example (27:25)
  • Becca argues spoiler etiquette is largely maintained online, though marketing a book as “twisty” sets up different reader expectations (26:50)

3. Moods Across the Writing Process (30:54)

Becca and Olivia dissect their emotional states at each stage of writing a novel, collaboratively rating each stage’s joy or pain:

| Stage | Olivia’s Mood | Becca’s Mood | |------------------------------------|----------------------------|----------------------------------| | Idea/Kernels | “Neutral to slightly bad” | “A 10. Like having a crush.” | | Early Drafting | “Excellent...most powerful”| “An 8. Exciting, still confident.”| | Draft Middle | “Best or worst, powerful” | “Drops to a three, overall a six”| | First-Draft Ending | “Overwhelming, pride, but ‘shitty’” | “A 4. Struggle with endings.”| | Second Draft | “Love revising, natural high” | “8 or 9, very satisfying.” | | Third/Mid Drafts | “Can finally cut what doesn’t work” | “Challenging, fear, avoidance, another four moment.” | | Line Edits/Final Edits | “Good, plummets at point of no return” | “8/3 spike chart—thin-skinned about small edits.” | | Pre-Pub Awaiting Release | “Feels horrible, obsessed with reviews; breaks cycle by quitting cold turkey” | “Impatient, compulsive review-checking, then excitement as launch nears.” | | Book Launch & Promotion | “So happy, relieved, already immersed in next work” | “A 10, invigorating, but also had ‘unrealistic expectations’—disappointed at missed lists.” |

(Timestamps: 31:12–53:51)

Reflection: Careers, Journaling, and Looking Back (55:38)

• Olivia’s trip to the Outer Banks prompts reflection on her career's transformation since 2021.

• Revisiting early podcast episodes and yearly goals episodes brings perspective on change, success, and creative effort.

  “It was just, it was really meaningful. I suggested if you ever are on a long walk and you think you can do it or want to once in a while.” — Olivia (60:04)

• Becca notes how seven and a half years of podcasting serve as a unique, personal time capsule.

  “I have a record of a fifth of my life. … I have this vision of my 80 year old self going back and listening from the beginning.” — Becca (59:16)

• They discuss the vulnerability and humility in making your creative process and goals public.

Becca's Final Thing: The "Personal Curriculum" Trend (62:19)

• Inspired by TikTok, Substack, and their own interests, Becca and Olivia share ideas for self-designed "courses" for the fall.

  • Olivia’s Personal Curriculum:

    1. Shipwrecks, Castaways, and Survival at Sea

       “It is all about surviving extreme circumstances on the high sea across history.” (64:14)

    2. Knife Skills 101 — Aspires to impressive, efficient kitchen cutting.
    3. The Career of a Writer — Studies the long-term trajectories and reinventions of various novelists.

  • Becca’s Personal Curriculum:

    1. Supes: Old Classics and New Favorites — Her eternal autumn/winter tradition of making soup (65:46)
    2. Watercolor: Light and Shadow — Deepening her painting practice.
    3. Family: An Outsider’s Perspective — Reading family novels focused on outsiders integrating into existing clans, as research for her next book (66:03)

• They trade podcast and newsletter recommendations to support their ongoing "studies," such as Writers on Writing and Caroline Cala d'Onofrio’s newsletter on famously mean reviews of classic books (71:46).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I’ve ascended to the dreams of my younger teenage self. So it was nice that she saw my name and she recognized me.” — Olivia, on being recognized in her favorite indie bookstore (05:20)
• “I think you’re getting your rejection reps in.” — Becca (09:00)
• “Maybe this you’re leading the resurgence.” — Olivia, encouraging Becca to champion underrated books (14:33)
• “‘The cover’s giving: this is a woman thinking for 300 pages.’” — Becca, riffing on misleading book covers for Finding Grace (23:39)
• “The plot twist that it makes you want to go back and read the book again.” — Becca on The Safekeep (25:52)
• “The purity of the plot twist.” — Olivia, on the impact of social media on the “twist” experience (26:34)
• “I think a second draft is like an 8 or a 9… this part feels really good for me.” — Becca on revision joy (38:18)
• “For some reason, I thought [Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret.] was a modern version of the story… but I didn’t realize it was set in the 70s, and that just made it so good.”—Olivia (75:32)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:35 – Becca on "Death Becomes Her" on Broadway
• 02:26 – Olivia’s full-circle author moment at Buxton Books, Hatteras
• 05:46 – Olivia on rejection and artistic risk
• 09:06 – Becca on losing her routine
• 11:40 – The "under the radar" book pitches begin
• 24:30 – Salient plot twists, plot twist discourse
• 30:54 – Moods at every writing stage ("cheerful charting")
• 55:38 – Reflective discussion on personal growth, podcast as a time capsule
• 62:19 – The "Personal Curriculum" discussion and hosts’ course picks

Obsessions of the Week (73:09)

• Becca: "Man I Need" by Olivia Dean—admitting to a chemical-level musical obsession (73:09)
• Olivia: Movie "Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret"—calls it "cozy" and "tender" (75:32)

Recent Reads Highlights

• Olivia:

  • Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild ("so cinematic," "could not put down")
  • Maggie, or a Man and a Woman Walk Into a Bar by Katie Yee (literary, plotless, beautiful sentences)
  • Sam by Allegra Goodman (coming-of-age, "underrated gem")
  • A Marriage at Sea by Sophie Elmhurst (true survival story)
  • Female Fantasy by Iman Hariri-Kia (romantasy fanfic-inspired contemporary)

• Becca:

  • The Wilderness by Angela Flournoy (friend group fiction with complex structure, strong character work)
  • Totally and Completely Fine by Alyssa Sussman (fun, fade-to-black romance)

Community & Further Engagement

• Join the Bad On Paper Facebook group and BFF/Geneva groups for book prompts and discussions.
• Follow Olivia (@oliviamenter) for updates and to pre-order her new novel, Little One (out February).
• Keep up with Becca (@beccamfreeman) for Substack musings and updates.

This episode is rich in candid creative insights, genuine book passion, and comforting friendship—even in the face of career uncertainty, making it the perfect autumnal listen for readers, writers, and creative souls alike.