Spring 2026 Catch Up

Summary

Bad On Paper Podcast — Spring 2026 Catch Up
Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter
Date: May 6, 2026

Episode Overview

In this lively spring catch-up, Becca and Olivia dive into everything going on in their writing, careers, reading lives, home renovations, and daily joys and struggles. The conversation offers an honest look at the emotional realities of publishing, creative pressure, ambition, and comparison, as well as the comfort of new hobbies, upcoming trips, and favorite books, TV, and even Crocs. The episode is equal parts therapy, pep talk, and celebration of the small things.

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Highs & Lows

Highs

• Olivia: Attended an exceptionally packed Liz Moore event for “God of the Woods,” moved to a high school auditorium due to demand (~1,000 attendees). Olivia describes being “almost making me emotional to see people put that much support behind a book that came out two years ago.” (00:36)
• Becca: Enjoyed a perfect spring day in Portland, Maine, sampling lobster rolls, watching soccer, and exploring the city. (05:22)

Lows

• Becca: Feeling overstimulated and overwhelmed since returning from Maine; battling construction noise and clutter in her office. “I just feel keyed up, like I can’t sit down and get into a productive place because of the noise.” (06:21)
• Olivia: Hit a “wall of anxiety, stress, depression,” post-publication and post-draft for her third book. “I just couldn’t get myself suddenly to do these things that I’ve been doing every day for months and months and months.” (07:50)

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Writing & Publishing Careers

Becca’s Update: “Back Where We Started”

• Five and a half months till publication, “It feels fake, which in some ways is good because it has kept me from getting crazy.” (11:41)
• Got blurbs from Annabel Monahan and Robin Lee: “I literally cannot actually look at them on my screen...it makes me... want to clench my eyes shut.” (12:30)
• Marketing and PR ramping up; has stopped reading in-depth reviews, focusing on the overall rating instead. “There’s no feedback that will offset something mean that will make me feel like this was net worth it.” (13:37)
• Navigating neuroses about Goodreads ratings and advance earning out: “Is that a bad omen?” (14:12)

Olivia’s Update: “Little One” & Career Reflections

• Measures post-launch success by reader responses and tags, not sales or ratings: “I don’t know [how it’s doing]...I get a sense of things by how often I’m tagged in reviews on Instagram.” (16:40)
• Discusses comparison with the hugely successful “yesteryear”: “It has haunted me in a weird kind of way...It’s the dream on top of the dream.” (18:57)
• Balancing pride in her work with industry pressure: “I know how hard I worked on it...this needs to be enough for you.” (20:01)
• On the pressure of advances and sales: “With Little One, it was a larger advance and I am scared that I’m not doing my job well enough somehow.” (21:50)

Facing Creative Pressure & Uncertainty

• Both discuss the drive to create a “breakout” novel and survive in the publishing world. “How many chances do I get and how do I balance what I want to do, what people want?” (32:15)
• Olivia on “Blue House” (Book Three): Announced in March 2026, recently sent a near-complete draft to her editor. “I’m like really, really obsessed with it, but I’m scared shitless that it’s not as good as I think it is.” (31:34)
• Becca on Book Three: Trying new structure (third person, four POVs, single timeline, “family dramedy” tone), feeling more confident with creative mess. “I have more belief in shitty first drafts.” (25:00)

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Reading Life & Book Culture

• Reading years: Both report fewer five-star reads so far in 2026; Becca’s sole five-star is “Hello Beautiful” by Ann Napolitano. (33:36)
• Olivia’s standouts:
  • “Vantage Point” by Sarah Sligar
  • “Good People” by Patmina Sabit
  • “Whalefall” by Elizabeth O’Connor (33:58)
• Cultural moment: “I feel like culturally we’re having a great reading year...There are so many more big book moments already.” (33:53)
• Speculate on "book of the summer" trends and year-over-year changes in literary culture.

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Hobbies, Home, and Daily Life

Hobbies

• Becca hasn’t had time for watercoloring but plans to return as home setup improves: “I was really enjoying it and I do feel like it’s really relaxing.” (36:31)
• Olivia mainly reads, writes, watches Housewives, or renovates her house.

Home Renovations

• Olivia details an upcoming major kitchen and dining room renovation (walls moving, new powder room, 10 new windows): “I’m so excited to have a new powder room because the toilet is essentially in the kitchen right now.” (43:06)
• Becca is decorating her new home: “I’m like, in the messy middle...But I’m excited for what’s next.” (43:59)
• Both describe the joys and stress of designing, ordering, and selecting furniture and materials.

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Fun, Travel & Purchases

Upcoming Travel

• Becca: Possible Italy trip in June for a collective 40th, Maine for the annual “lobster roll off,” attending a wedding in Scotland in October. (45:42)
• Olivia: Outer Banks in September, family visits in May, otherwise focusing on home and enjoying downtime. (46:34)

Favorite Purchases

• Becca: New 4'x3' bulletin board for her office: “I’m too excited about it.” (47:32)
• Olivia: Her first pair of Crocs in butter yellow, “I understood a whole new world. They’re so comfortable.” (48:10)
• Becca also touts new Rothy’s slip-ons: “I've been wearing them all the time...They're white and I don't have to worry about them getting messed up.” (49:17)

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TV, Entertainment, & Pop Culture

• Becca is watching much more TV this year: “There’s something really delicious about laying in bed at night and watching TV.” (33:00)
  • Real Housewives of Rhode Island, Euphoria, Hacks, Rooster, Scrubs reboot, and especially Ladies of London (new season): “It’s so delicious...none of them are relatable in a way that is so watchable.” (55:54)
• Olivia on multi-tasking TV: “While I’m watercoloring, I’m like, I can’t give it my full attention.” (37:10)
• Music: Both discuss the new Noah Kahan album and its Netflix documentary. Becca feels for his creative pressure; Olivia notes mixed reviews. (51:03–53:23)
• Movies: Excitement for “Devil Wears Prada 2.” (50:53)

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Notable Quotes

• “It was almost making me emotional to see people put that much support behind a book that came out two years ago.” — Olivia, discussing the Liz Moore event (00:57)
• “There’s something about watching how explosive it is that, like, makes me feel almost... every shred of small success that you’ve had seem, like, kind of laughable.” — Olivia on book envy and “yesteryear” (18:57)
• “It feels fake, which in some ways is good because it has kept me from getting crazy...” — Becca on pre-pub denial (11:41)
• “With little One, it was a larger advance and I am scared that I’m not doing my job well enough somehow.” — Olivia (21:50)
• “I have more belief in shitty first drafts where last time I was like, ‘Oh, no, this is a terrible sign.’” — Becca on book three’s process (25:06)
• “I’m like really, really obsessed with it, but I’m scared shitless that it’s not as good as I think it is.” — Olivia on “Blue House” (31:34)
• “I’m obsessed with my butter yellow Crocs. I will be in those all season long...” — Olivia (55:27)

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Book Club & Recommendations

• May Book Club Pick:
  Into the Blue by Emma Brody — Literary romance about two misfit teens reuniting as adults, with an unusually interesting ending. Discussion May 27. (59:55)
• Recent reads, Becca:
  • “Fame Sick” by Lena Dunham — “She wrote the shit out of this memoir. It is so, so well written on a line level...she brought the gossip.” (57:17)
  • “Found Time” by Caroline Goldstein — “A really interesting approach to a second chance romance...well done.” (58:41)

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Community & How to Connect

• Join the Facebook group: Bad on Paper Podcast BFF
• Instagram: @badonpaperpodcast
• Newsletters: liviamentor and beccafreeman.substack.com
• Becca's second novel, "Back Where We Started," releases October 2026 — available for pre-order now!

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Memorable Moments

• The overwhelming support at the Liz Moore event moved Olivia almost to tears.
• Both hosts get candid about post-publication pressure, comparison, and coping with the reality of writing and releasing books.
• Excitement for upcoming travel and the simple joy of home, hobbies, and comfort — from bulletin boards to butter-yellow Crocs.

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For Full Episode Discussion:

• Skip to (11:19) for the deep dive on writing, publishing, and creative process.
• Renovation conversation at (40:33).
• Favorite recent purchases at (47:11).
• TV obsessions start around (50:00).
• Book recommendations and book club pick announced starting at (57:17) and (59:55).

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This catch-up episode is a cozy, honest behind-the-scenes of creative life — a must-listen for writers, readers, or anyone in search of relatable ambition, anxiety, and joy in the everyday.

Transcript

[A]

Hi everyone and welcome to Baton Paper Podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor.

[B]

And I'm Becca Freeman.

[A]

And today we're doing a spring catch up episode where we update you on all of the big and small things going on in our respective worlds.

[B]

I'm excited. Start with highs. What's high in your world?

[A]

My high is that on Tuesday I drove an hour north of where I live to see Liz Moore speak. It was actually in a high school auditorium because it was hosted by a library there. But they had so much interest in the event that they moved it to a high school auditorium. And I drove up there, I got there and I pulled into the parking lot and I looked at the time. The event was like at 7. And I was like, are the high school students still here? The parking lot was full. I was parked illegally, I'm pretty sure. So the whole time I was like, will my car be there when I get out? Because it was so jam packed. It was like I was at Disney World. Just every spot filled. I think there was like a thousand people there. It was crazy. I have never in my life seen a book event so well attended, like by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. And she talked about her career a little bit and then she talked about the God of the Woods.

[B]

That's what I was wondering. You were sending me photos and when did God of the woods come out? That was 2024.

[A]

It came out two years ago.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, is she still touring that book? I said it would be such a flexible. If she was like, now that I've brought all of you here and then just gave a totally random talk on a subject of her choosing. Like, if she was like, let me tell you about my favorite episodes of the X Files, she could have.

[A]

And we all would have been there. It was unbelievable, the amount of people there. And I guess it's for the paperback, which I'm assuming they probably waited a while because it was selling so well to launch the paperback.

[B]

Was she in conversation or it was just her?

[A]

No, it was just her. It was her behind a podium, which is the first time I've seen that. At the end they did have like pre selected questions from I think the library. The library community members. Yes. And so she answered those. But yeah, it was a very different format and pretty formal. But they had a signing line afterwards and I was dead center of the line and I waited for an hour and to see that many copies of a book. Like everyone had a copy of the God of the woods or Long Bright river or some People had five or six copies, like, for their book clubs, and the line was just snaking around this high school lunchroom. Like, it was almost making me emotional to see people put that much support behind a book that came out two years ago.

[B]

Like, now, did you get the sense, Wild, that it was people who had already read the. Or were there people who were coming into the paperback for the first time?

[A]

I think it was both. I went by myself, so I was eavesdropping a lot and just kind of getting a sense. And I think there was a lot of people who, like, brought friends with them who hadn't read the book. But a great number of people had the hardcover version as well. So I think it was a mix. But, I mean, people waited for a long time for those signatures. So I think you have to be pretty invested to do that.

[B]

I was asking because I was wondering if at some point does the statute of limitations on spoilers run out where the author is talking about the full content of the book versus usually when you go to a book event, it's the first week the book comes out. It's right after you're assuming that nobody in the audience has read it. So you're talking about the inspiration behind it. You're talking about maybe themes, but you're not really talking about the meat of the book like we might get into in a book club episode where you can talk about spoilers.

[A]

She talked a lot about the research that went into it when it comes to, like, the Adirondacks, because it was pretty close to there where the event took place. Even if you didn't know who she was, you probably would have found it interesting. And I was just hanging on her every word for the beginning of her speech, which was all about her career and how she had three books before Longbright river and to varying degrees of success, or I think her first book, she was like, I think 15 people have bought that book. Although I did buy you one of them. They had it for sale. They had it for sale at the event. So I was like, I'll buy it.

[B]

You're like, she's.

[A]

I didn't know this about her. Yeah, she is also a musician. She's a singer, songwriter.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that at all.

[A]

So her first book is about music, but yeah. So it was just really, really, really inspiring. And when I finally got up to her, she was so kind. But I said, I've never seen an event like this. And she goes, well, you know, it wasn't always this way. And I think that's an important thing to put in perspective because it really does feel sometimes like, you know, you see these people who have these huge books and they come into the scene and it's just that way forever. But that's not necessarily the case. So lovely. Tell me about your high.

[B]

My high is still Maine. Last week when we recorded, I was still there. And then I stayed the weekend. I came home on Sunday and we had a great Saturday fun day in Portland. We went out to lunch to a new to US lobster roll spot, which wasn't excellent, so I won't tell you where, but the vibes were great. It was just, like, fun to be out. It was a nice day. So we went and watched some of. My fiance wanted to watch a soccer game, so we went to this outdoor bar and watched some of that. We walked around. I don't know if downtown is the right word, but, you know, we kind of like popped into some places. It was just like a really lovely day of exploring.

[A]

That sounds just the perfect spring day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was it about the lobster roll that didn't quite cut it?

[B]

The mayonnaise was very skimpily drizzled on top of instead of mixed in. And so the ratios, the proportions were very off to me.

[A]

Do you have a low?

[B]

I am feeling pretty much since I got back, since the start of this work week, I am just feeling very overwhelmed and I'm feeling very overstimulated. And I was telling you before we got on that there's some construction going on, and I think I'm becoming more sensitive to noise. My old apartment was on a really busy corner, and so I think I was somewhat inoculated to background noise. I am so bothered by this. There's right now across the street a brownstone that they're renovating, which has been happening since I moved in and involves an extreme amount of power washing. And then now there's some construction going on on my building, so it's like double construction. And. And even with noise canceling headphones, like, I just feel keyed up, like I can't sit down and get into a productive place because of the noise. But then also, I was complaining to you about. I went up to Maine, I took a timeout from life, and so now I have all these little admin tasks. Also I have all this stuff I'm trying to sell on Facebook Marketplace. So my office is kind of a disaster right now. There's, like, clutter everywhere. Oh, my gosh. I don't know how to describe it. Except for I'm overwhelmed for no good reason.

[A]

I really do think there's something going on. Everyone I've talked to is like, scattered, overwhelmed, stressed in some different way.

[B]

Okay, I'm glad it's time to including myself because I can't quite explain it either. Well, tell me your low.

[A]

My low is I had this moment. I just hit like a wall of anxiety, stress, depression, I don't know. I just hit this absolute wall this week. And this is the first week. Thank you. I'm feeling better. A little bit better. But I've hit this, like, post publication, post draft writing for book three, where I just realized I've just been going pretty hard for a long time. I just couldn't get myself suddenly to do these things that I've been doing every day for months and months and months. I felt so down about myself. I don't know. Like, I just felt really, really deeply off PMSing so it could have something under a full moon, no less. But, yeah, I don't know. I think I. All of my events as of this week are kind of behind me now for Little One. The book is in the world for two months straight. Basically, I have been both doing stuff for Little One and then also working nonstop on book three, which is great and a total gift of a life. But. But I just. Yeah, I just hit a wall and I crashed. And I was not expecting it. Cause I've been just chugging along really happily for a long time. Yeah. But we're getting through it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We are pushing through past this week.

[B]

Hopefully the moon and your period abates and you just all of a sudden,

[A]

the clouds clear and the power washing as well.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yes, I can hear them. They're power washing right now. But it does feel warranted that you've been going pretty hard and we're gonna talk about all the things that you've been doing. We'll loop back.

[A]

Yes, we will. Yes. But first, let's take an ad break.

[B]

Let's.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

I'm excited we're doing this. I feel like we, you know, sometimes skate along the surface of what's going on in highs and lows, but we haven't gotten deep in a while, so I'm excited to just catch up.

[A]

Yeah, I. I am too. Well, let's just dive in.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Where should we go first?

[A]

I thought we'd start with writing.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Because back where we started, like, I want to know where you are in that process, what it's feeling like. How many months are we out at this point?

[B]

We are five and a half months out.

[A]

Five and a half months. Okay. So getting there. But, yeah, tell me everything. How are you feeling?

[B]

It feels fake, which in some ways is good because it has kept me from getting crazy because it does not feel real. It does not feel like it's going to come out in October. Even though there's a date, there's a cover, it does not feel real to me.

[A]

When do you think it will start feeling real?

[B]

I think it's honestly in my best interest that it stays unreal as long as possible. I mean, a couple things have started this week that are making it feel more real. So I got two blurbs this week that Olivia. I literally cannot actually look at them on my screen. Like I have to squint to look at them because it feels so surreal. Annabelle Monahan gave me the loveliest blurb. She is just human sunshine. I adore her writing. I adore her as a person. She's fantastic.

[A]

And.

[B]

And then I'd sent it to Robin Lee, who wrote the Idea of youf, which obviously, you know, is such a huge book to me as a romance reader. And she sent a really lovely blurb. And I just. I have passed them on to my editor. My editor was like, congratulations. You should be so proud. And I'm like, I honestly can't look at them. It makes me. I just want to clench my eyes shut. I'm like, oh, my God, it's too much.

[A]

That's so exciting, though. What amazing people to blurb your book. Scary, but exciting. Especially when they're that good.

[B]

That happened this week, which made it feel a little more real. And then we are scheduling a marketing and PR kickoff call. So we're, you know, going back and forth to find dates and times. So I think that will make it feel more real. I don't know. I'm still pretty tuned into the overall rating and the number of ads, but I've stopped reading the long form reviews. I read one that was like three stars. That was like a little bit harsh. But I also did it without getting my feelings hurt, which I'm pretty proud of.

[A]

Yeah. I was gonna ask you, what made you step away from reading them? Was it just. You're like, it's time, or.

[B]

I was just like, no good can come of this. Like, there's no feedback that will offset something mean that will make me feel like this was net. Net worth it. So I'm like, just stop. And I have. And I. I don't plan to go back to reading them, but who knows? Oh, do you know what my current neurosis is? It's about to drop under 4 stars. It's like 4.03 right now and trending down. And I'm like, is that a bad omen? Is that, like, at what point will people see it and not want to read it? Because a lot of times, like, early ratings of books are so high. Like, it's like 4.5 for some books or something. Because it's people who are fans and are usually excited. So I'm like, oh, what does it mean that mine's like, in the low fours?

[A]

I don't think it really means anything.

[B]

I'm sure nobody is paying as close attention to this as I am.

[A]

You did tell me once, and it continues to haunt me to this day.

[B]

What did I tell you?

[A]

You said it was something like, as long as you have a 4.1 by the time your book comes out, you're fine.

[B]

Why did I say that? What was my data point? I wish I knew. I wish I knew why I thought that.

[A]

It haunts me. I have no idea.

[B]

Did you have a 4.1 when your book came out?

[A]

I don't know. Such a bad influence. Probably not, little one. I don't know. I have been so far removed from the rankings. Even now when I get. Have you. I'm sure you're getting them the obscene amount of AI generated. Help me.

[B]

No, I don't know. AI pointed this because my email address is not on my website. It's a contact form. So, you know, if somebody wants to email me, they can respond to a substack newsletter. Like my email address is accessible, but it's a contact form that then generates an email to me on my website instead of having it there. So I think like a lot of them, they just scrape it. Because I've noticed authors complaining about this and I'm like, I get one a month maybe.

[A]

Oh, interesting. Well, good for you. But I was gonna say that sometimes they will pull the number. I hate the feeling, or hated the feeling of when I was more tuned into it with such a bad influence, when I would see it go down, but I wasn't reading reviews, but then I would know what was trending down. So then I would be like, what did the reviews say? I think it's great that you're, you know, not reading them at least. And. And yeah, I think that's good. I mean, a four is solid. That's an amazing rating.

[B]

Which. It's going down.

[A]

That's normal though. That's normal. No one goes up, I don't think.

[B]

True. Yeah. Things feel surreal on back where we started.

[A]

Well, it's very, very exciting and I know people are so thrilled for it and I'm excited too.

[B]

Thank you. Well, what about Little One? I feel like we haven't really post mortem to how you feel about the launch. You've obviously been going around doing so many events promoting it, but, like, how do you feel about the launch period? Do you feel differently than you felt with such a bad influence? Like, what's going on upstairs?

[A]

I mean, it's funny because Liz Moore blurbed my book. And so when I went in line and I was so nervous, I was like, thank you so much for blurbing my book. And she was like, so, how's it going? And I was like, I don't know. You know, like, that's such a tough question. And people ask it actually a lot, as you know, because I think it's just the natural thing. Oh, the book is out. How. How's it doing? And truly, I don't know. I don't ask for sales numbers, I don't look at ratings. I get a sense of things by, like, how often I'm tagged in reviews on Instagram, that's really my only true gauge. I was tagged in a review yesterday. That said, in my opinion, this book is not getting nearly the hype it deserves, which I appreciate it deeply. But that is also a vibe check in and of itself. So I. I mean, you know, I think there is also something about seeing a book like yesteryear be everywhere like it is right now.

[B]

Do you feel comfortable talking about that?

[A]

Well, yeah, I mean, because it's your.

[B]

Not your ghost book, but it's like the book you use to torture yourself. Like mine is bad words.

[A]

And the thing about yesteryear is that it sold right in between when such a bad influence came out and when I was selling Little One and there was like a really short period of time. And so from that moment, which was probably the moment that I was the most sensitive to, like, everything in my career that I've ever been in, I heard about this, you know, seven figure deal and the Anne Hathaway of it all. And that was two years ago almost. And so it has been two years of seeing this book get every single thing you could want. And there's something about watching how explosive it is that, like, makes me feel almost. And like it is, you know, literary suspense that is cultural commentary. There's a slew of differences, of course, although the covers are.

[B]

I was gonna say the like. Obviously this doesn't mean anything, but the color schemes of the covers are really similar. Like, they visually feel comparable.

[A]

Right, right. And yet they are really not. Because yesteryear is doing like a, you know. What? One in ten million books.

[B]

Oh, yeah. It's like book of the year, Book of the summer territory. Like, it is a rocket ship.

[A]

And there's, of course, like, a surface pool of jealousy that is, like, all encompassing, even though, like. And partly it is because I so deeply admire how Caro is handling the rollout. I think everything she posts is so thoughtful and interesting. She just seems so cool, you know, and it's just the fantasy, you know, it's the dream on top of the dream. There's something about it where it makes it really difficult to not find every charrette of small success that you've had seem, like kind of laughable. And that's silly because we should all be proud if we're publishing books in any sense. And I am very proud of littleone. But, yeah, I will read it, and I am looking forward to it. But it has haunted me in a weird kind of way.

[B]

And I think that Exists. For every book you publish, there's a book that's getting better, and it wasn't yours to get. Nobody's entitled to anything, but you can't help but looking on and, like, there is this jealous little gremlin that's like, why not me speaking for myself?

[A]

Oh, yeah. I think it's also really cool just to know about her story and how it came to be and that this is possible and that people are this. In a similar way to seeing everyone hold the copy of the God of the woods in that room. Like, it's just. It's cool. It's very cool. But when you have a book that you want even to have, like, a fraction of that, it can be a little difficult. But I will say that with Little One, I'm really proud of it. Like, I am proud of that book. I'm proud of what it had to say. I know how hard I worked on it. I know how many hours I put into it, how. How much of myself I put into it, and how much it is an improvement from my first book, which I'm also proud of. And also, Tor was amazing. Meeting people has been amazing. Someone emailed me the other day thanking me for the book, saying it was one of their favorites of all time. And there was a time in my life when, like, that. And I printed it out. Cause I was like, this needs to be enough for you. You can't spend your life freaking out about the yesteryears of the world when you have such good things right here. So, yeah, that's how I feel about it.

[B]

Do you feel just looking ahead for myself? Do you think you feel chiller than you did directly post publication for such a bad influence? Because I think there was some level after the Christmas Orphans Club came out that I had nothing to compare it to. I had no frame of reference. And so I feel like I was maybe more prone to spinning out because I didn't know what to expect. And I do very poorly in uncertainty.

[A]

In some ways, yes. In some ways, no. I think the. The great thing about my.

[B]

For me, for Future October me, I

[A]

think it's different because. Because my advance for such bad influence was fairly modest. I was really operating from, like, a place of I know I can earn out.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And when I earn out, I feel like I've done my job. And I did that in the first month. So I was like, oh, great. Check. I can relax. Whatever happens from here. Like, whatever reception it has, whatever good, bad reviews, like, I've done my job. And with little One, it was a larger advance and I am scared that I'm not doing my job well enough somehow. Even though I tried as hard as I possibly could because it's so much harder to earn out, I just, I worry. You know, I felt with both books I've been in the very lucky, I think in rare position to feel like both publishing publicity teams, marketing teams gave everything they possibly could have. Like, I feel like I was set up for success in every possible way and I felt very supported. And so I just feel more pressure with this one.

[B]

I feel like I want a gold star, you know, like, I want, I don't want to let anyone down. I don't want to disappoint anyone. You know, like last time I was like, my editor took a chance on me. Like, I don't want them to regret it. And so like, I just, I felt a tremendous amount of self imposed pressure. It's weird because, you know, earning out is obviously an unimpeachable success metric. But it's like, where in the, in between, like where in the gray are they happy? You know, because I think the stat is like 70% of books don't earn out. And so, you know, I think there is an area in between and I think that's really hard because it's like, I don't know where that gray area is.

[A]

So do you think right now you feel less pressure?

[B]

No, I feel more pressure because I signed a two book deal with the Christmas Orphans Club and back where we started. So I was not worried about selling my next book because it was already sold. And now I feel a tremendous amount of pressure because it's like, okay, this third book that I'm working on, I want them to be happy and I want my track record to be improving so that like somebody wants to buy this third book and it's not like, ooh, sorry, you had two chances. I feel much chiller about this than I did two years ago while I was working on this because I felt like I had quit consulting and I put all my eggs in the author basket, which was dumb. And now that I've really worked on beefing up my newsletter and I feel like I'm diversified across more things and it's not all on books. So I focused really hard on that last year and I feel I'm not like, oh my God, if I don't sell a book this year, I'm not gonna be able to pay my bills. Like, I'm not in that place whatsoever. And taking some of the financial pressure off of it. Obviously, there's the ego pressure of, like, I wanna sell a third book. I wanna keep publishing, I wanna keep doing this. And. And I don't want to be like, oh, I can sell a book at half of the advance for my first two. You know, so there's an ego component, but, like, from a financial stability component, I'm like, much chiller.

[A]

Chill is good. Let's talk about book three then. Like, what is exciting you about that right now or what is scaring you about that?

[B]

Everything is scaring me, but not in a bad way, if that makes any sense. So I'm like a month into working on it. I had like 23,000 words that I'd worked on over the past few years while I was also writing back where we started. So I'm not starting from nothing, but, you know, I've just kind of. I'm a month into like, restarting and like this being the focus. And I think I feel to overuse the word chill. I feel so much chiller about this than I did about back where we started. Because that process was so hard and uncertain on the writing level. And it got there. And so now I feel like I know that even if it isn't where it needs to be out of the gate. I feel like I have more belief in shitty first drafts where last time I was like, oh, no, this is a terrible sign. Like, what is? What does this mean? And I was spinning from the get go. And so with this one, I'm like, oh, like a lot of this will get cut. It'll get changed. I'll figure it out. Like it's an iterative process and I have more faith in that. So I feel good. Like I'm freaked out about everything. It's like a big pile of mush. But I think that's fine. So I've really worked this month on being consistent and kind of like reteaching myself that I can do this and that it's not scary and that the way that I do it is to just sit down and chip away at it day after day. I'm really proud that even this week where I was saying how unfocused and how overwhelmed I feel, I've still sat down every day. And, like, is the word count impressive? No. But, like, I've worked on it and so that feels good.

[A]

I think that's the only way you build confidence in this career. It's just like doing it. Even though you cannot see the final product necessarily, you know that it will. You will get There because you have before.

[B]

It's scary because this book, I feel like every book I keep doing something different, which nobody's told me that I can't do that. But I feel like that is kind of the messaging you get in the publishing industry is like, do the same thing, but differently. And I keep doing something different. Like the Christmas Orphans club was, to use my term, that did not take off at all. A friendmance. It was like a book about friendship. Back where we started is a romance. There's a friendship aspect to it, but it's a romance. And then this next one, as I conceive of it right now, like it's a family dramedy with one to two romance B stories. I'm also kind of relearning how to do something every single time because I'm not doing the same thing. And so that's exciting, but also scary. Also, I'm writing this book in third person, which is the first time I've done that. So, you know, instead of I, it's in she. And it doesn't feel quite natural yet. But my past two books have been dual timeline. This is a single timeline. But it's as I conceive of it now, it's four POVs. And as I was reading other multi POV books, I was like, oh, yeah, they're pretty much like all in third person because otherwise it gets really confusing who I am. So I'm trying to just enjoy the mess I'm making.

[A]

I think that's the right perspective to have. Is it past tense or present tense?

[B]

Back where we started is in both. So the present chapters are in the present tense. The past chapters are in the past tense. This is all in the past tense, so we'll see. I want it to feel like a Bill Lawrence show. That is the vibe I'm searching for.

[A]

Ted Lasso question.

[B]

Ted Lasso Shrinking Scrubs. Like, I want it to feel good and, yeah, I want it to be an upper.

[A]

Okay, I like the sound of that. That's such a good comp.

[B]

What about you? Tell me about where you are with book three. Because I feel like you've been toiling behind the scenes, but it hasn't come up here that much. And also, you already sold this book.

[A]

Yes. Where are we? Yeah, I actually. So it has a name I haven't even talked about this year, I realized. But I announced it in March. But it's called Blue House. I sold it in December 2025. I announced it in March 2026. And I have just Sent nearly completed version of it to my editor, at which point.

[B]

And you sold it on partial. So you sold it on, like, half of the book. So you're kind of in a weird spot where half of it is, sorry, I don't know why I'm clarifying this for people, but, like, no, no, it's go for it partially a later draft, and then, like, the. The second half of it is a first draft.

[A]

So basically, I have now, I would say four or five times written up to a certain point, then gone back to the beginning, which is a little maddening, mostly because I want to be like, I have a full first draft, or I've written hundreds of thousands of words, probably, but I haven't actually written the end, which I'm itching to do

[B]

you know how it ends or you're still figuring that out?

[A]

I do know how it ends. I don't know, like, every single thread and detail, but I guess I should give the basic pitch of what it's about. So it's about a woman who returns to her family vacation home in Hatteras island in the Outer Banks of North Carolina, and it is falling into the ocean, falling apart, and she is forced to confront the dark history of the house and her history with the house.

[B]

Where are we positioning this genre wise?

[A]

I think the easiest comp is the Paper Palace. It's like atmospheric, emotional suspense. There is a mystery sort of a crime element to it, but there's also a romance that's like a pretty strong through line of the story, which has been a joy to write. Although, as you were saying, very new and different for me. But, yeah, that feeling that the Paper palace gave me of just being. I've had this note card on my bulletin board since I started writing it. And it's just the word sweet. Like that feeling of just being swept away by a story, you know, there's also waves. So I'm really just leaning into the theme here, but it's kind of what I'm going for. But, like, there's the romance. There's also. I've put a lot more humor than I was expecting into it, which I'm like. I'm waiting for my editor to be like, why is there this joke about Tucker Carlson? I'm like, I don't know. It just felt right in the moment.

[B]

Oh, I'm so excited to read this eventually.

[A]

I've been thinking about the wedding people a lot, too, as I've been writing it. Like, there's something interesting about the way it managed to combine like, really a lot of darkness with like a lot of romance and beauty and humor. My only goal with the book so far has been, like, just follow every creative impulse you have to give your whole self to it and see what happens.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like really, really obsessed with it, but I'm scared shitless that it's not as good as I think it is.

[B]

It's so scary to share a first whole draft with somebody and be like, did I make anything?

[A]

I know, it's so scary. And I think I'll just be totally real and, and honest. I think the thing with Little One, whether it is a success or not or whatever is not my breakout. I think that's clear. So who knows, maybe that could change. But I think now I'm really chasing this idea of like, what's gonna be the breakout novel? And I just like, I believe in this book so much that I'm scared that I'm wrong.

[B]

I completely understand that feeling.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like the pressure of this industry. How many chances do I get and how do I balance what I want to do, what people want? Yeah.

[A]

But one of these summers coming to, I don't know, beach chair near you, hopefully, and any other career stuff going on that you want to update people on or talk about?

[B]

I want to talk about non career stuff.

[A]

Okay. So how is your reading year going? Like, do you feel like this is a good reading year for you?

[B]

No, no. On multiple levels. First of all, I am watching so much more TV than I have watched in past years, which honestly, when people are like, how do you read so much? It was that I barely watch TV and now I'm watching a lot more tv.

[A]

Did you get a new tv?

[B]

No, but it's in my bedroom. And there's something really delicious about laying in bed at night and watching tv. And so I've just been watching a lot more tv, so my quantity of reading has been lower also. I don't know if I'm just pickier this year, but I have had a single five star read this year. I've had a lot of four star reads, so it's not as if I'm having a bad year. Right. But the only five star read I've read this year for me is hello Beautiful by Ann Napolitano. I don't know, how do you feel about your reading year? I feel like culturally we're having a great reading year. I feel like this year there are so many more big book moments already. Like, I'm thinking of strangers, I'm Thinking of yesteryear, I'm thinking of Lena Dunham's memoir. There just seems to be a lot of big book moments, which makes me really excited as a reader.

[A]

I agree. I have read a lot this year. I only have three standouts, though.

[B]

What are they?

[A]

Vantage Point by Sarah Sligar.

[B]

Oh, my God. I started that while I was in Maine. I haven't finished it.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

But I'm really enjoying, especially the writing of it. Like, it is really well written. I'm probably only 10 into it, so I'm not positive what the mystery or suspense is yet, but I'm really enjoying it.

[A]

She's really talented writer. Good People by Patmina Sabit. And then Whalefall by Elizabeth o'. Connor.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There are a lot of other ones that I felt pretty strongly about. Like, I loved. In her defense, I love Murder Bites. But, like, in terms of, you know, my top shelf of my bookshelf.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That can only fit so many books. Yeah, those are the three. A lot of four stars beyond what I even just mentioned. So, yeah, maybe we're getting more discerning.

[B]

I also think that I may be pickier in a year that I have my own book coming out because I'm like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I feel good about, like, books. I feel like books are having a moment again.

[B]

I'm trying to think if I agree with that. I feel like there's more community around books. Like, there's a lot of event stuff happening.

[A]

I just feel like these big cultural moments that we're having with books are more and more rare. Like, I. Last year.

[B]

Last year was a weird. I don't think there was a book of the summer last year. Like, I think a lot of people said Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid, which I agree was a big book, but I don't think that was any bigger than a regular Taylor Jenkins Reid book.

[A]

Yeah, I think last year was the year of the Correspondent.

[B]

I think it was the year of the Correspondent.

[A]

Well, what other hobbies are you still watercoloring?

[B]

Oh. So I have not been watercoloring this year, but I'm excited to get back into it. And I can tell you very specifically why I have not been watercoloring. So in my office, there's no overhead lighting. I don't have any lamps yet. So my office is really only usable when there is daylight. And it's really only since daylight savings time that, like, after work, it's been light in here. And then until the week before I went to Maine, I didn't have a Dining room table. So, like, there wasn't a table in the house to watercolor at. So I was really beholden to like sunlight in a weird way. So the only two times I've watercolored this year.

[A]

Do you do a lot of midnight watercoloring?

[B]

Traditionally, no, but like, it was something I was doing in the evenings, in

[A]

the evening, like after dinner. Right? Yeah.

[B]

And so the only two times I've watercolored since I moved were to make cards for people. Because that was one of my goals this year, were to make cards. And so I've done like the bare minimum. But I'm really excited to get back to watercoloring.

[A]

Well, I'm excited for you.

[B]

Yeah, I was really enjoying it and I do feel like it's really relaxing. I don't know, am I going to read anything if I. Between TV and watercolor.

[A]

You can TV and watercolor at the same time. Maybe if you like, wash on your laptop or something. So then you could kind of get two done at once, make time for reading.

[B]

My friend Molly, when we were in Maine was like, you watch TV very differently than most people. And when I watch TV, I'm like 100% in. Like, I cannot do two things at once. Like, I don't want to watch it while I'm cooking. And also she was like, the amount of times that you rewind something because you didn't hear it or like you went to the bathroom and you missed 30 seconds of it, she's like, is wild.

[A]

Oh, okay. Yeah. That is different. Especially if you're watching like Real Housewives.

[B]

It was, it was like watching Real Housewives. So something about me is like, while I'm watercoloring, I'm like, I can't give it my, my full attention.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

That Alicia deserves.

[A]

She does. She. She really does. What about you?

[B]

What, what's going on hobby wise for you? Are you like, thrifting? Are you. I don't know what's going on. Outside of work and Housewives and reading,

[A]

I really haven't been doing anything except writing, reading. And if I have free time, I'm either watching an episode of Housewives or I'm hanging out with friends, out to dinner or something. And that's kind of it. Like, and house renovation stuff is a whole. I feel like it's like a. The kitchen is like a, I don't know, part time planning job in my life. I feel that also navigating, like, I don't know if you found this at all, but the second you tell someone that you're like, renovating a kitchen or something. It's like, everyone has a very strong opinion on, like, don't get this type of countertop and make sure you do the layout this way. And of course, all my friends are very kind and thoughtful and.

[B]

Friends. Or like your parents or people online.

[A]

I mean, I just feel like maybe it's more just. I'm aware that everyone has opinions, so I'm, like, afraid of doing it the wrong way because a lot of times, like, we ask people who we know who, like, do this for a living, their opinions, and then they say, like, oh, you could do this. And it's very helpful, but it also overwhelms me.

[B]

Well, wait, can we pause here? Yeah, let's take an ad break. And then the next category is house stuff. Let's fully get into it.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Okay, back to the kitchen. Tell me where you are in this. Like, are there plans yet or you're still planning? When does it start?

[A]

We have plans. We designed it ourselves. Okay. Like online or just A very simple online program. Where to get, like, the general layout. I have mood boards I've made for each space chosen, paint chosen, appliances, ordered some of the appliances.

[B]

How intense is this renovation? Like, are we moving water lines and electric lines, or are we basically sticking with where everything is and just upgrading? Like, the cabinets, the appliances, et cetera? Are we knocking down walls? Like, how big is this?

[A]

The majority of things are staying in the same place, but we are moving walls, small walls. So yeah, it is. But, like, our wood burning stove is staying in the same place. Our sink is staying in the same place. Our stove is staying in the same place. But there's a powder room, the kitchen. A room off of the kitchen which will be sort of like the easiest thing to describe it is like a scullery or a butler's pantry, but it's essentially gonna be an extension of the kitchen and then the dining room. So. And we're opening right now the entrance between the dining room and the kitchen is just a doorway. And we're doubling the. Anyway, my point is it is pretty involved. It's different floors. The ceiling's coming out.

[B]

Wow. Putting in new windows too, because you wanted more light.

[A]

Ten new windows. Wow. Which before, if there's any old window, people listening, just know that they were not old, old. Like, the majority of the few windows are like 1980s, but you're creating new

[B]

windows that don't exist.

[A]

Yeah. So the windows are ordered, have been ordered, paint's picked out, countertops are picked out. Still need to pick hardware, lighting, furniture.

[B]

How long does it take?

[A]

My best guess is we are going to start early June to mid June at this point, and I would predict that we finish sometime in August.

[B]

Okay. And you fully hired contractors for this? Like, Jake isn't diying this or it's. It's both.

[A]

We hire contractors, but we are going to do the demo.

[B]

Okay. Oh, fun.

[A]

Which, frankly, I cannot wait to tear some of. Some of.

[B]

It's kind of like a smash out of there.

[A]

Yes. I'm going to feel, because, oh, gosh, there's so many things that just, like, drive me up the wall that I'm just excited to tear out of there.

[B]

Okay, wait. What are you most excited to see go and what are you most excited about that will be new?

[A]

I'm so excited to have a new powder room because the toilet is essentially in the kitchen right now. So I'm so excited to be able to have a guest bathroom downstairs with a sink. A sink is helpful, so then people don't have to Wash their hands in the kitchen sink after using the bathroom that's three feet away. And lights. We just do not have lighting in there. So it's so dark, and I feel like it's never clean because I can't see anything. That's what I'm most excited about.

[B]

Oh, I'm excited for you.

[A]

Well, what about you? I mean, I read your most recent substack post, which I really, really enjoyed. Love those. That striped fabric.

[B]

It's really hard to take photos of interiors. I was like, this all looks so janky because it's a work in progress. And then also, like, I'm not very good at interior photography. So I'm like, oh, like, it's hard.

[A]

It's really a lot harder than you would think it is.

[B]

I was like, this looks much worse than I feel it looks in person. Which is the more important thing, how it looks in person?

[A]

I mean, it looks good, but I know what you mean.

[B]

Yeah, I'm like, in the messy middle. I've ordered most of the big stuff. I'm not doing my bedroom right now. I'm doing my office and, like, the living dining, kitchen, which is kind of like all one big room. And almost all of the big stuff is ordered. Not all of it's been delivered. Some stuff, like, I'm waiting on a living room rug. I'm waiting on my coffee table. I can't remember. There's a couple other things I'm waiting on. So the big stuff is chosen, and then next will be, like, the littler things of mirrors, knickknacks, some of the lighting, styling, everything. So I'm excited for what's next.

[A]

That's the fun part.

[B]

I know. I agree.

[A]

Well, I'm excited to see the mirrors, the knickknacks.

[B]

I'm really happy here. It feels like home. Much more quickly than I expected. Like, I was so sad to leave my old place, and now I'm like, fuck that place.

[A]

And look at your. Look at your zoom background. My gosh.

[B]

Oh, my God, my shelves.

[A]

I mean, it looks fake in a good way.

[B]

I haven't traveled that much this year, so coming back from Maine, I was like, I did have this really, really powerful sensation of, like, I'm coming home. This place is home now.

[A]

That was one of the things I was going to ask you because it can take a while sometimes, so that's such a good sign that you're already feeling that way.

[B]

It does feel like home. Does it feel done? No. There's a ways to go, but I'm excited.

[A]

I'm excited for you and I. I don't think anything ever feels done. I'm like constantly trying to remind myself of that. Moving on to some fun things. What's going on that's fun. Like, do you have any fun plans coming up for spring or summer?

[B]

I keep seeing all these articles about how summer travel is canceled, which because

[A]

of oil prices, because the economy.

[B]

Right now I'm supposed to go on this trip to Italy in early June with all of my college friends as like a collective 40th birthday trip for all of us. So I'm really excited about that and I hope it happens. Obviously I'll go up to Maine for the lobster roll off, which is going to be in July. I'm excited. Oh, you know what I'm really excited for, which I guess isn't really summer, so I'm not answering your question, is my friend Molly, who lives in Maine is getting married and her fiance is British and they're getting married in Scotland in October. And I'm so excited for that. I've never been to Scotland.

[A]

Oh, that's going to be so nice. Where, like in the Highlands or.

[B]

No, they're getting married in Edinburgh at an art museum there.

[A]

That's incredible. That'll be great. You'll love it.

[B]

Yeah, I'm really excited. What about you? Are you traveling this summer or is this the summer of kitchen? Are you going to the Outer Banks?

[A]

That's the only thing we have planned. Both of our sets of parents are visiting in May, so coming right up. And then the only other thing is we're going to the Outer Banks in late September. I really would like to get another weekend there to work and to do some research related things sometime between now and end of September if possible. But otherwise, just honestly being home, like I've been so busy that I just haven't even had that much time to just like be here and be able to say yes to all social things and whatnot. So it'll be good, hopefully.

[B]

What about a best recent purchase?

[A]

Well, I hope our new range that we got is good.

[B]

Oh yeah, sure. Big purchase.

[A]

It's back. It's backordered till the end of July. So fingers crossed. We like it when it gets here. But in terms of things I. I actually use, I don't know. Let me think. I did make this outline, but let me think about this for a second while you tell me about yours.

[B]

I think that you and the listeners will both be very excited about mine. I bought a bigger bulletin board. It is 4ft by 3ft.

[A]

Fantastic.

[B]

Versus I think my old one was 3ft by 2ft.

[A]

That must be the same size as mine.

[B]

I'm getting a dresser that's going to go in my office and it arrives on Friday and so then I'll be able to actually like have it at eye level. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited for my new bulletin board. I already put all the stuff from my old one on the new one and I have so much more space. So I'm really excited about that. I'm too excited about it.

[A]

Fantastic. I'm happy for you. I got my first pair of crocs.

[B]

Oh, did you get Jibbitz?

[A]

No.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I got my first pair of crocs. They're butter yellow. I slipped those bad boys on and I understood a whole new world. They're so comfortable.

[B]

What did you buy them for? Like are they to serve a certain purpose or are these just now you're like, I'm entering a Crocs phase of life, like comfort overall. Else.

[A]

I got them primarily for gardening because I had a pair of garden clogs but they always felt too like restrictive and non breathable so, so I was like, oh, these are kind of like my rubber Birken socks. I wear everywhere but they have a little more coverage but they're still breathable. And now I just kind of wear them everywhere. But there's, I think they're actually kind of cute styled like. I, I, I like them.

[B]

Do you know what I got? They sent them to me. I didn't buy them and I like them so much more than I imagined. I've been wearing them all the time. Is this pair of Rothy's like slip on? Yeah, it's the cruiser loafer and I got it in. It's called Raffia knit. But they're kind of just like, I don't know, they're a little beachy, but they're closed toed. I need a pedicure so badly and they're so comfortable. I've been wearing these everywhere.

[A]

They look very comfortable and breathable.

[B]

I also like that they're washable. So they're white and I don't have to worry about them getting messed up.

[A]

That is key. That's kind of why I like the crocs because I can just hose them down.

[B]

Yeah. Now I want to get you a jibbet.

[A]

Please don't.

[B]

I wonder if I can find a friend.

[A]

One friend, My. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. My friend has one that's A flashlight so you can turn it on.

[B]

Like, a functional one.

[A]

Yeah. And so, like, when you're walking outside at night, you can, like, see your path because it's illuminated by the light that attaches to your Crocs, which. Yeah, I. There's. I'm wearing them right now. They're with socks. They're so comfortable. So, so comfortable. Well, any other entertainment? You've been watching a lot of tv.

[B]

So much tv.

[A]

So. So what's. What's been your.

[B]

Your.

[A]

Your best watch?

[B]

I mean, my lineup has just expanded. Like, I feel like I'm just watching more stuff, so, you know, I have the Real Housewives of Rhode Island. Spoiler. My obsession this week is piggybacking on yours. I started watching Ladies of London just starting with this season that they reset. I'm obsessed. Yeah. I'm watching Euphoria, which I'm not decided on if I will keep going. Although I guess we're three episodes in.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Just the new season.

[A]

Oh, the new season.

[B]

New season. I'm watching Hacks. I'm watching Rooster. I'm watching the Scrubs reboot. I think there's other things, too. Like, I'm just. I am really beefing up my lineup of things that I'm watching because I just love being in bed watching TV at night.

[A]

It does sound really nice.

[B]

Oh, you know what else? I'm really excited. I want to try to go see the Devil Wears Prada, too this weekend.

[A]

Okay. You'll have to report back, because from the marketing, I'm like, is this only cameos? Is there a plot? Or is it just a bunch of famous people?

[B]

I feel like they have no reason for this to not be good. Like, they've had 20 years. They have clearly all the money in the world. Like, if they made this and messed it up, I will be furious.

[A]

I have not heard anything from people who have seen it, which seems like

[B]

a bad sign, but I don't think anyone's seen it.

[A]

Oh, I thought it already came out.

[B]

It comes out on Friday, and they did the premiere, but, like, I. I haven't seen a lot of people going to screenings.

[A]

All right, well, I probably won't see it, but I do want to know how it is, so let me know.

[B]

I'm very excited. What about you? What are. Where are you on entertainment things? Oh, have you listened to the new Noah Khan album?

[A]

I listened to about half of it, very casually. I. I was. I don't know. I'm a little bit on the fence. Have you?

[B]

I have. I Think it's too long. And I think a lot of the back half of it are, like, these depressing songs that. Well, it's very little grow on me, but I'm like, I don't know that this whole album was necessary. Like, there could have been some editing in here. Like, there are songs that are stronger than others. You know what I did do, though, as I watched the documentary, his Netflix documentary. I love a music documentary.

[A]

We know. You watched the Jonas Brothers one.

[B]

Yeah, I watch Billie Eilish. Like, I'll watch any music documentary pretty much. He talks about how much pressure he's feeling about writing this album and how it needs to be as good or better than Stick Season. And so I ha. I, you know, I really feel for him. It's not a sophomore creative project because he. He'd done albums before Stick Season, but it's like, it kind of is a sophomore project of, like, after he's blown up and, like, the amount of pressure, like, I really. I really felt for him in some

[A]

ways, I'm kind of, like, glad that he just got it out of the way so he can, like, move on. Because I feel like even if he had waited five years, I think whatever would have come after six season would have been. It would have been an immense amount of pressure. So now I hope that he can maybe just relax. But I have seen pretty. Pretty mixed reviews. But again, I think that's kind of inevitable. I will say that I heard the end of August for the first time when it came on the album, and I had this spark of like, ooh, what is this gonna be? That made me think maybe I should listen to the rest of it in its entirety. He's a cool guy, though. I just think he's an. He's an interesting person.

[B]

I would be really curious to hear your thoughts on the documentary. He also talks a lot about body image in it, which I did not expect.

[A]

I saw that clip. I saw that clip of him talking about it, and it felt very raw.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I still want to watch it. Jake Washington said it was. It was really good.

[B]

Well, shall we take an ad break before we get into some ad matter?

[A]

Yes. This episode is sponsored by Wayfair. Clearly, we both have home decor on the mind lately, and it's a topic that can be so fun, but also, as I was saying, incredibly overwhelming. And this is why I love browsing Wayfair for items like bathroom tile and hardware and so many other things. It makes it so easy to filter by price or style or dimensions. And this is also true, by the way, for outdoor furniture and accessories. I am so ready for picnics and grilling and eating outside when we have friends and family come to visit us. And Wayfair makes it easy to make those spaces perfect. They have so many outdoors pillows that are adorable, by the way. And so I think I'm going to add some of those to our lounge chairs very soon.

[B]

Whether you're looking for outdoor seating, grills, major appliances, storage, patio lights, rugs, decor, Wayfair is your one stop shop for home. Also, installation and assembly services are available for a truly seamless experience. I actually just did this. I got a bookcase for my living room and I was like, this is going to be too heavy for me to put together myself. I've been proud of. I've been putting together some of the little stuff, but this, I was like, there's no way. And they book it for you right through Angie. And so it's just like literally a one click. You just add it to your order. The process is so seamless. They send you reminders. I was so impressed by how easy it was.

[A]

Get prepped for patio season. For way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style. Every home.

[B]

Wayfair. Every style, Every home. All right, Olivia, what are you obsessed with?

[A]

I have nothing.

[B]

Your crocs.

[A]

I've been. Well, sure. My crocs. Yeah. I'm obsessed with my butter yellow crocs. I will be in those all season long, so. Yeah, right. You saved me. Great. My brain isn't working well this week, clearly, but, like, let's just move on to your obsession because I'm so happy about this. It is such a spectacular franchise. Tell me all about Ladies of London.

[B]

Well, I'm not caught up yet, so no spoilers.

[A]

I'm not either. It's.

[B]

I'm just. It's so delicious. Last night I was out to dinner and I was like, I get to come home and watch an episode of Ladies of London. I feel like all of them are such characters. Like, they are just wild human beings that I'm like, none of them are relatable in a way that is so watchable.

[A]

Martha, how is that a real person? She is one of the most beautiful people I've seen on television ever. Like, she is stunning. She looks like she is out of a different era.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She has a magpie that lives with her in this. Like, I don't like the Apartment. It's Hegate. She's a magpie named.

[B]

I do not.

[A]

Oh, my God, Martha.

[B]

Minute that she brought out goggles that you need to wear so he doesn't peck your eye out, I was like, I'm done.

[A]

I'm done with heck of Mark Francis and his absurd gold. Like, it kind of makes all the other housewife franchises look really not as interesting.

[B]

It's so good. I'm enjoying it so much.

[A]

Are you team Margo or team Mark?

[B]

I'm team Margo.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

So far. I mean, we'll see.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, it's a. It's a amazing cast. Amazing cast.

[B]

Yeah. I'm.

[A]

I'm so glad you're.

[B]

I'm so enjoying it.

[A]

Well, what about reading? I haven't read anything.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

But you have.

[B]

Speaking of enjoying, I read Fame Sick by Lena Dunham, which I don't know how you feel about Lena Dunham in general, but she wrote the shit out of this memoir. It is so, so well written on a line level. Like, it's fantastically written. But she also brought the gossip. Like, she talks all about her relationship with Jack Antonoff. She talks all about like, things on the set of Girls. She talks all about addiction issues she struggled with, about health issues. Like, it feels very. No holds, no holds barred. No bars hold. You know that phrase, that one.

[A]

The more you say it, the less clear I am. If I ever knew that phrase. Actually, me too. Yeah, I do know what I mean.

[B]

It feels that I really liked it also, you know, like, she's obviously has a bias towards herself, but she also. I don't think she makes herself the hero of it in any way that you feel like. I rolly about it. Like, I finished and I felt like I was like, she really did a great job explaining herself and her motivations. And I was like, yes, even if I don't agree with you, I understand what was going through your head. But at the same time, I also feel like if, for instance, Jenny Connor, her ex co showrunner, were to write her own memoir, I could easily be convinced that Lena Dunham was a real piece of work. I enjoyed this memoir so much.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

I read it. I've heard the audiobook is really good too. So there's that. And then I read Found Time by Caroline Goldstein, which is. I think it's the newest or second newest. 831 stories release. And this is a second chance romance. And it's really interesting because it's about these two people who meet when one's still in college. One's just out of college in 1993 at a Jeff Buckley concert. And then they have this like week long romance and then they run into each other at a tribute concert 30 years later. So they're in their late 40s, early 50s. And I thought it was a really interesting approach to a second chance romance. Cause it's like in the first, they're young and wild and free and they meet at the tribute concert because they're both bringing their teen daughters there. And so then, you know, in the present they have much more baggage and responsibilities. And it was just, I thought it was really well done. And you know, all of the 831 stories books are novellas. So it's, you know, around 200 pages. Like it's very fast.

[A]

Well, what about our May book club pick? Tell the people.

[B]

I'm so excited. We are reading into the Blue by Emma Brody. And this is a romance on the more literary side of romance, I would say. And it is about AJ And Noah, who are two misfit teenagers who meet working at a video store. They bond over this like very niche improv comedy show. And just as things are starting to get romantic between them, he disappears. And then they run into each other as adults as they're both trying to make their way in the entertainment world. And I think that what deep cuts is to indie music, this is to improv. So it has like a lot of like SNL in it. They're working on an improv sci fi show at part of it. Like I loved this and I think I loved all of it. I loved the romance. But what I loved most, it has one of the most interesting endings I've ever seen in a romance. I cannot wait to discuss this, which we will be doing on May 27.

[A]

I can't wait either. Well, if you want to talk to us about any of this, you can join us in the Facebook group, which is under Bad on Paper Podcast. Our BFF group is under Bat on Paper Podcast. It's linked in the show notes. Our Instagram is about a paper podcast and I am on Instagram and the rest of the Internet and on substack liviamentor.

[B]

I'm on Instagram ecamfreeman. My newsletter is on substack eccafreeman substack.com and my second book, Back Where We Started comes out this October and I would love it if you considered pre ordering it or if you've already done that, add it on Goodreads, request it at your library. Thank you for supporting me.

[A]

Do that now and we'll see you next week.

[B]

Great. See you then. Bye.

[A]

Bye.