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Bad On Paper
The Knight & The Moth Book Club
01:01:27
It’s Book Club day! We’re excited to chat about . We discuss the book’s setting and world-building, the main characters (and their romance), how this fits into the romantacy genre overall, and more! Obsessions Olivia - Becca...
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- [00:18]
A
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Bad on Paper podcast. Who are you? Oh, I'm Olivia, mentor. Do I usually Sometimes. Like, my brain, it short circuits and I don't do a thing that we always do, and this was one of those times. But I am Olivia, mentor.
- [00:32]
B
And I'm Becca Freeman.
- [00:33]
A
And today is our book club episode for August. We are discussing the Night and the moth by Rachel Gillig. Ooh, I just looked the window, and no, it was a gigantic bolt of lightning. It's extremely rainy and dark, so I think it fits the vibe.
- [00:49]
B
I agree. I think that feels very mood appropriate. I'm glad Mother Nature also came to book club today.
- [00:55]
A
Me too.
- [00:55]
B
Okay. Before we get into talking about this book, though, and I have no idea what you thought of it, so I'm very excited to hear more. Tell me your high.
- [01:03]
A
My high is very small and very powerful, and that is that I finished one writing journal and I began another. And my new one is this really beautiful green color that matches my nails, and it is like a linen. So if you move your nails across it, there's like, a sound, which I really like for some reason. Oh, okay. Well, I really like it, and it's just a really beautiful journal. I got this in Nashville. So my first entry is when I was at the Jenna's Book Club festival, feeling inspired as hell. And then I picked it up again today, and I was writing about everything. And then I was flipping through my full writing journal, which this is my second one. I'm going through about two a year.
- [01:49]
B
Okay.
- [01:50]
A
One every six months. And I was just looking at, like, where I started the journal. I started this one in February. I had 12,404 words of the first draft. Now I have 45,000. So I feel like that's not bad. No, that's not the goal I had, but I just love being able to go back and see the progress and where my mind was through all of the different steps. And it's been such a great mental health tool for me and creativity tool. And there's just something unmatched about the feeling of cracking open a new journal.
- [02:27]
B
I know that feeling of cracking open a new journal very well. I don't know that I've ever finished a journal, so that feels very aspirational to me.
- [02:36]
A
I usually have. Not until this writing journal habit. And now I've gotten two full, once finished, front page to back page. I use both pages, and I'm chugging right along. I'm excited.
- [02:47]
B
Wow.
- [02:48]
A
Well, what's your high?
- [02:49]
B
My high is that I Am going to San Diego for a girls trip that I'm very excited about. My friend Merritt Beck has a family timeshare there, and so she invited me and another friend to come out for a few days. And I think it's just gonna be pool time and playing mahjong. And she made us so many good dinner reservations. I think we're gonna go see some seals, which I'm really excited about. Like some beach walks. I am so excited. I'm basically on vacation for the last week of August and the first week of September. Two different vacations. And I'm really excited. I do not quite know what my work status will be during it, but I'm hoping that I'm really able to relax and unplug.
- [03:36]
A
That sounds really nice. There's one thing I know about merit, is that the trip is going to be top notch, very chic, very delicious. I'm excited for you. It sounds like the perfect getaway.
- [03:49]
B
I'm excited for me too.
- [03:50]
A
Well, what's your low?
- [03:52]
B
So my low is that I started my edits in earnest, and the first day I just sunk into this immediate smooth spiral of self doubt about everything. I basically spent my whole writing day going back over four pages and making changes and then unmaking them and then making them again and then unmaking them and then writing very woe is me comments in the margins to theoretically, my editor, but then like, resolving them out and being like, don't be this desperate.
- [04:23]
A
Wait, sorry to interrupt you. Give me an example. Like when you say a woe is me comment, what does that look like?
- [04:29]
B
I don't know what to do here. Like, can you help me?
- [04:32]
A
Yeah. Overwhelmed. Yes. Okay, I got it. Yes, I've been there. Okay, go on. Sorry.
- [04:37]
B
And so, yeah, it was not a good official start. Doing a little better the last couple days, but going at a snail's pace and trying to be gentle with myself. But also have all this travel coming up. So there's kind of a hard deadline that I am trying to hit. And you might be thinking to yourself, like, wow, it sounds like Becca's having a really tough month over the past few weeks. But really, we've just recorded three podcast episodes in five days, which has also added to the schedule stress. So I'm having a bad week, not a bad month.
- [05:10]
A
I think it's a busy time for me. Whenever I go into edit, I know where the majority of them are. And sometimes if most of them are at the beginning, it messes me up. So psychologically, are they pretty evenly split? Would you say? Or is there something about the beginning that's tripping you up? Other than it just being the beginning?
- [05:28]
B
No. There's two big ones at the beginning that I don't know quite how to implement.
- [05:34]
A
Okay. Sometimes I do this. When it's something small but annoying, I will leave it and go back to it. Do you ever do that just to get momentum, or are you very much like Virgo?
- [05:43]
B
That is what I've done now. I skipped one of them and we'll go to the next one. But the next one I can't skip because that will then inform things later in the draft.
- [05:52]
A
Yeah, that's always daunting.
- [05:54]
B
Yeah. Sorry. We're stressing me out by talking about it more, so we're just gonna.
- [05:57]
A
Oh, sorry.
- [05:58]
B
We're gonna move on to your low.
- [06:00]
A
Yeah, I don't really have one, so.
- [06:04]
B
Thrilled for you. Thrilled for you.
- [06:07]
A
But as you mentioned, it has been a very short period of time and we have been very busy, so maybe there just hasn't been time for something to fall apart. But, you know, it's only a Wednesday.
- [06:19]
B
Yeah, let's take an outbreak.
- [06:21]
A
Uplifting.
- [06:22]
B
No, let's talk about something that isn't my book.
- [06:31]
A
This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. One of my favorite ways to start a free Saturday or Sunday is to open all the curtains in my bedroom and look at the trees and drink a nice cup of coffee in bed. It just feels so, so luxurious to me and so relaxing. And one thing that makes the experience even better is doing so while wrapped in Cozy Earth's temperature regulating bamboo sheets. We've talked about these before, but they really are the perfect blend of being cool to the touch and just relaxing. Like this sort of moment of both comfort and also the feeling of being refreshed. I don't know, it's kind of. It's kind of hard to explain. I'm trying. But anyway, they're cooling and they're cozy and that is a rare combination.
- [07:14]
B
And.
- [07:15]
A
And they really do only get better with time and repeated use.
- [07:18]
B
If you're looking to treat yourself to something to make your life a little bit better, I cannot recommend the bamboo sheets. Or hear me out. It's getting closer to cozy season. And if you heard me talk about it, rave about it last year and you didn't pick one up, it's getting to be cuddle blanket season and I really couldn't love mine more. When I think of coming home from a busy day, running around the city and turning on the TV to watch some barbecue brawl and climbing under this blanket. Even just that thought is making me feel relaxed. It is truly so magical. It's a little bit weighted. It is just like an instant feeling of ah.
- [08:04]
A
Oh, that's very relaxing just to listen to. Especially as it rains. Right now I'm like, wow, that does sound nice. Anyway, you can head to cozyearth.com and use our code BOP for 40% off any of the items that we have talked about here and more. That's code BOP for 40% off. And if you get a post purchase survey, make sure to let them know that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on Bad on paper. Your bed should be more than a place to sleep. It should be your happy place. Cozy Earth makes that possible.
- [08:38]
B
All right, Olivia in to this book the Night and the Moth by Rachel Gillig. Our first romantasy since doing fourth wing back in 2023.
- [08:52]
A
Quick plot for me, the first romantasy I have read since then.
- [08:55]
B
There you go. Double whammy. Quick overview before we get into it. So Sybil Delling, who is known only as Six when we meet her, is a diviner, which is one of the six holy women who interpret the God's will via dreams. And one by one her beloved fellow diviners begin disappearing. And Sibyl turns to Roderick Mendacious, a heretical knight to the newly appointed king, to help her find her sisters, a quest that takes them across the entire kingdom and presents just as many questions as answers. So this book is the first book in a planned duology, meaning two books. So we do. And on a cliffhanger here. Olivia, we have not spoken about this. I know this was a quick turnaround for you reading wise. How was the experience? What did you think of the book overall?
- [09:50]
A
I think I'm pretty neutral on the book.
- [09:52]
B
Oh.
- [09:53]
A
But I think there were moments where I was neutral positive. That sounds like.
- [09:58]
B
That does not sound disease reading. It does not sound.
- [10:01]
A
There's. There were some moments where I went a little higher than that and some moments where I went a little lower, but overall I think I was pretty much just middle of the road.
- [10:12]
B
Oh, I picked this thinking that you. I know you don't read a lot of romantasy, but I could picture like the moodiness and the atmosphericness of it appealing to you.
- [10:23]
A
Yeah, it definitely really did in parts and that was, I think, some of the high moments for me. I will say I definitely enjoyed this more than fourth Wing. Personally. I. I want to know how you feel about that comparison. Yeah, there was a lot to like about it. I Am not a fantasy person. So I'm coming in this at a deficit. I think the thing I struggle with in most fantasy, I think I recall struggling with this with Fourth Wing, is like, there's always some sort of a battle.
- [10:49]
B
Sure.
- [10:50]
A
You know, it's like a complicated battle with complicated rules and complicated world building, and I just find myself fade away very quickly from that, and then I have to get back into it, and then there's another battle. And then. So it's a little bit of that push and pull, but I found the writing to be excellent. I really enjoyed the world. So the first two chapters, I really struggled with. I was like, oh, my God, this is gonna be hard. And then I was really in it, and I loved it. And then the fighting happened. I kind of was a little bit out of it. But anyway, you love this book. Tell me what you loved about it. I can absolutely understand why so many people are losing it over this, and I want to know what did it for you.
- [11:31]
B
Okay. So I believe I read this back in June for the first time, and I reread it this week for this episode. And I really appreciate how different this is relative to other books in the current romantasy genre, both in terms of the creatures, like, the Just the topic matter we're talking about. I was like, oh, diviners and gods. That's so different than. We're getting a lot of Fae right now. There's kind of a mini resurgence of vampires, you know, I was like, okay.
- [12:07]
A
This feels different, but still vampirey. A little bit, slightly.
- [12:13]
B
Yeah. A little vampirey. Yeah. So I. I really appreciate how different it felt. I really liked the writing in it. I feel like the writing was different. Definitely a cut above other romantasy books I've read. And it just felt so moody in a way that was maybe almost like gothic. Like, it felt like. It just felt very transportive. And I think, in general, I really like the romantasy genre. I feel like romantasy more than any other genre is something for me that's like, fully absorbing. The first time I read this book, I read it in a day. And if I'm reading a Romantasy, it's something that I don't want to put down. And it truly does feel like an escape from my real life, which sometimes I want. And this one really gave that to me. And I also really appreciate that it was short. It was 400 pages, which, you know, for a Romantasy is pretty short.
- [13:06]
A
And the chapters were quite short.
- [13:09]
B
Yeah, it read quickly to me, which I appreciate, because sometimes I agree with you. The battles are definitely my least favorite part of a romantasy. I get why they exist, and, you know, that they help create stakes and danger and they move the plot forward. But I can sometimes, like, really tune out during too much world building.
- [13:29]
A
Yeah.
- [13:30]
B
Where it's like, here's the politics of, like, this fake world. And I'm like, I don't care.
- [13:36]
A
Yeah.
- [13:36]
B
Or like, if the magic system is too complex, like, I was like, I can just tune out.
- [13:41]
A
Yes, I'm the same way. And I was getting really sort of lost in the opening when it's the drowning and the blood and the dreams and the dream world. I was like, what is happening? I was getting really lost, which is really a me problem.
- [13:53]
B
But, no, I think the opening to this book is very purposefully confusing. And I want to talk about that because I thought it was kind of a neat magic trick that the book opens in a way. I must have read the prologue to this book three or four times when I first read it. And I was like, what? Who? What's going on?
- [14:13]
A
I read it, I was like, no idea what's happening. Going to push forward.
- [14:15]
B
Oh, no. I, like, kept rereading it, and I was like, what is this? Trying to tell me who?
- [14:19]
A
That's probably.
- [14:20]
B
And then you flip the page and then you're like, it doesn't seem to connect. But I thought it was a really neat magic trick that it's like you have no understanding. And then, you know, towards the end of the book, it loops back to this same story, and you're like, oh, my God. This has taken on completely new light. But, yeah, the book starts, it says, you know this story, Bartholomew, though you do not remember it. I'll tell it to you as best as I can and promise to be honest in my tale bearing. If I'm not, that's hardly my fault. To tell a story is in some part to tell a lie, isn't it? And then also in this less than one page intro, it says, I loved this line. It says, your craft was obedience. You learned how to dream and how to drown. And I was like, where are we? What's happening? I'm intrigued.
- [15:05]
A
Yeah. I was like, if this is the whole book, we're gonna struggle with Olivia.
- [15:10]
B
It was so disorienting to me because it says, you know the story Bartholomew. And I was like, who's Bartholomew? And then you immediately get introduced to the diviners. And the first time you hear Bartholomew is from Bartholomew. Saying, Bartholomew. And you're like, that was him in the first page. That doesn't sound like him. Like, and I was just so. I was very confused until I got a couple chapters into the book as well.
- [15:34]
A
Yeah. The Bartholomew of it all. For a long time, I was like, why is he calling her Bartholomew? And then the explanation was like, he calls everyone Bartholomew. And I was like, that's a very weird explanation.
- [15:45]
B
Yeah. Like, that doesn't help.
- [15:47]
A
Okay, sure. And then at the end, you know, it comes together in this specific way.
- [15:52]
B
And you're like, bartholomew.
- [15:55]
A
But I was like, why is no one explaining? It must have been a hundred plus pages until. Or 50. It was a large chunk before it was. Someone was like, why is he calling you Bartholomew?
- [16:06]
B
Yeah.
- [16:06]
A
Can someone explain this to me, please? But, yeah, I do think it's clever how it all ties together in the end.
- [16:13]
B
That was really satisfying for me. So I feel like this setting in the world building were key differentiators for this book. So I want to spend some time discuss that aspect. So seasonally. This book came out in June, and I was really surprised when I was rereading it to pick up on the fact that the story takes place over the course of a few weeks at the end of summer. Do you feel like that matched the mood of the story for you?
- [16:38]
A
I guess it makes sense because they're outside, you know, they're escaping and, like, doing all this fun stuff in the beginning. So you'd kind of need some nicer weather. But it feels a lot darker and moodier. For sure. Like, maybe we could have moved early fall.
- [16:53]
B
Yeah, it feels very fall. Like, this feels. One of the reasons I wanted to pick this book was because it feels like a very moody coming into fall book. Those are the vibes to me.
- [17:05]
A
Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Also, the publisher was like, okay, we'll, you know, have all of summer to build buzz, and everyone will be talking about it, and then once we get to fall, everyone's gonna want it even more, and it'll push people over the edge. Like, maybe that was some of the thought process. Because you're right, it is very gothic and moody and shadowy. For sure.
- [17:25]
B
Yeah.
- [17:26]
A
There are people I meet and they only read Romantasy, which I really struggle with because I'm like, oh, well, I love reading so much, and I don't know how much we can connect on this beyond the basics, which I definitely participate in, but I feel shut out of a whole culture sometimes. And that's by choice, but I feel like you are more familiar with a lot of it. Though it's not the only thing you read, of course.
- [17:49]
B
And so I like a big cultural moment. I like a moment when we're all excited about the same thing.
- [17:54]
A
Yeah, I mean same. That's what I'm doing with Project Hail Mary. I'm trying to create a moment. I think there is a moment. Actually I'm not. I keep talking about it like I am actually in charge of the excitement behind this multimillion dollar movie event, but it's neither here nor there. I am totally with you. And I was gonna ask you, of all the fantasy you've read, you talked about the vampires, the faes, how does this compare to you? Like did this do it for you more than a fairy?
- [18:24]
B
I don't know that that's quite the scale I would judge it on of like I have a hierarchy of this is the creature that I prefer. But I do think that we're very much in a fairy era of fantasy and they can feel really duplicative. And so I appreciate it the same way that fourth wing has dragons, which felt so different than anything else. Like I really appreciated the differentness of this. And I think that having something that is a challenge to the gods versus like a personal quest also makes this story feel bigger than some of the other romantasy stories where somebody's on a personal quest, we're saving the realm, we're not just saving our family member or something.
- [19:17]
A
That's interesting. I was really attached to the idea that 6 Cybil, we later learned, was going after her sisters, for lack of a better word. And that was the motivator at the beginning. And then of course it kind of shifted. But I got a little bit lost in the practicalities of like what was actually happening. Like there were the omens and then there was the objects. And like, if you ask me right now, Olivia, write a paragraph explaining what that was about. I honestly don't know if I would be able to. To succinctly get there maybe.
- [19:53]
B
Oh, I feel like the omens were just individual gods in a multi God system. And each of them had a talisman that was their magical object which originated from Aisling Spring. And all of those objects had two powers. One of them was destructive and one of them was transportive of moving through space.
- [20:16]
A
I would probably say I would be able to describe 80% of that.
- [20:21]
B
Okay, you're there.
- [20:22]
A
So I was almost there. How did you feel about the blood of it all? Because didn't really like the amount of time that people were drinking blood and I was like I don't know why this was a choice. And then I wondered, do you think it was a direct call out to the vampire romanticies of the past or was it just this makes sense, let's do this? I don't know.
- [20:46]
B
I liked it. I was not expecting it, that's for sure. But there was going to be a vampiric element to it. But it made sense to me and I thought it was interestingly applied. For me, everything just has to make sense. And in this one, everything made sense. I think there are some areas that are less explored and we can talk about that at the end that I with the duology, I'm like, okay, I assume this will be fodder for the next book. I was not confused or feeling like anything was not explained well enough that I found it unbelievable. So I was like, yeah, this makes sense in the context of this book.
- [21:24]
A
Okay, I respect that.
- [21:26]
B
I want to talk about the world building really quickly. So I saw somebody in our Geneva group say that they thought Rachel Gillig's work is always a little too light on world building. But the flip side of that is that she managed to deliver this book at 400 pages versus I looked them up. 4 fourth wing is 517 pages. I was really surprised to see that the first book in ACOTAR was 417 pages. The more accurate thing would be to compare word count, which I didn't look up and I don't know if that's readily available. And then Quicksilver, which is kind of another big Romantasy series right now. The first book of that is 624 pages. So I guess I'm curious, would you rather, and I know this isn't your genre, but like, would you rather a tighter length or would you rather more world building?
- [22:15]
A
I don't know if I have an answer to that right now. But I did want to say that I looked at the Goodreads reviews very quickly for this and there is a. I think it's two stars or something. And I feel comfortable airing that only because I think this book has like a 4.4 thousands of ratings. Like, I'm not worried about, to be honest.
- [22:35]
B
A big TikTok book here.
- [22:37]
A
Any Romantasy book, like, I swear you could do anything and it would rank higher than most other books. There's just, I think people have an affinity for Romantasy in this way that, like, it almost always works on the whole, but not always for everyone, obviously. And this person wrote the longest Goodreads review I have ever seen in my life. It had to be tipping the scales at like a thousand plus words. It was long, okay? And a lot of it was on the world building and how it was flimsy and I could tell that like, oh, I had this glimpse into fantasy readers minds in this way I had never had before. To me the world building didn't feel light. But also I'm coming from a non fantasy person, you know, so to me it felt like the right amount. I couldn't have done a longer book. Like it was the right length to me. So if I had to choose, I guess I would choose tighter length over world building. But I mean I think this is a better book than Fourth Wing and it's a hundred pages less and I think that language is better. Would you agree with that?
- [23:49]
B
Yes and no. I think the language is much better. I think the plot is more exciting in Fourth Wing. It's higher stakes. I liked the romance better in this, so. So I don't think I can quite compare them head to head. But one thing I think about the world building is that we judge all of these books in a vacuum, you know, where it's like the book has to contain the entire world. But in many cases, I've read many other romantasy books, I've seen other fantasy type shows and I do feel like you can kind of shortcut some of this. I was like, oh yes, I understand what this is. This is kind of like a Game of Thronesian world where there's different townships or different areas of the kingdom that have different aspects and it's kind of this like medieval, not contemporary type world where there's no technology. And like I was like, yes, I get all of this. I don't need all of this like explained to me in terms of like the history of Traum or you know, the history of like all of this. And so in that way I'm like, we put it on the shoulders of every book to contain a full world and system. But I'm like, you can kind of shortcut it and take out a lot of the stuff that is familiar from other books and shows for me. And like on the one hand you can judge that against the book where it's like, it's incomplete. And I was like, no, I understood what this was. I understood the country, if that's what we want to call it. I understood the magic system as well as I think I was supposed to. I don't think that like we delved into the origins of the magic, but I was like, okay, the magic is. The spring is magic. There are six magical objects that exist that have these powers. And I assume that we'll dive deeper into this in the next book. But I was like, yes, I appreciate that this is 400 pages without chapters and chapters worth of political history.
- [25:44]
A
Yeah, I agree. And I also think this book was interesting to me because I think that if you take the romance out of Fourth Wing and you take the romance out of this book, I think this book stands better on its own.
- [25:57]
B
I agree with that.
- [25:59]
A
Okay. And not to say that, I mean, they're romantasy. It's, like, not really the right way to judge romantasy, probably, but that's always interesting to me because I think it changes how I personally rate a book. In my mind, this romance was much.
- [26:12]
B
Less explicit, and it was much less of a plot point than in Fourth Wing and certainly in the later two books in the Fourth Wing series.
- [26:22]
A
Hot take. But I think I actually would have enjoyed this book more without the romance.
- [26:26]
B
Oh, no, I disagree. Well, okay, let's pivot. Let's talk about our characters, and then I want to get into, like, the aspects of this book. So tell me how Sybil worked for you as a main character.
- [26:37]
A
I liked her. I had no problems with her. I liked that she wasn't immediately enthralled. Well, I guess she was kind of immediately enthralled by the night, but I don't know. She had her own world. She had her own things going on. I liked how she interacted with the gargoyle. I. I never had a problem with her. I. You know, it's not like she's my favorite character I've ever read, but I thought she was interesting. And I saw some reviews that said that she was inconsistent, and I don't agree with that at all.
- [27:06]
B
There was a recurring theme about her body image and her generally being proud of being strong from being a stoneworker. And I'd forgotten about this aspect until I reread the book, and I was like, oh, I think Olivia would really appreciate this aspect. Was I right?
- [27:21]
A
I didn't clock it as, like, a body image plumb line, but I guess you're right. And, yeah, I did appreciate when they were measuring her bicep, and her bicep was, like, huge.
- [27:29]
B
Yeah. And she was. And she never talked about being embarrassed of her body. Like, she did say, like, he tried to pick her up, and she was like, I'm heavy. And he's like, it's no problem. But, like, she seemed to Be really content with the strength of her body, which I was like, oh, I really like this.
- [27:43]
A
Yeah, I thought that was nice. I liked how much she loved how, like, the chisel and the hammer, it was, like, always important that she had it. You know, it was her thing. I really enjoyed that.
- [27:53]
B
I felt like she was a lot more relatable to me than so many other Romantasy books. So I feel like the blueprint for a lot of Romantasy is she's just a normal girl who learns that she is chosen. Either she has, like, unknown powers, she has this, like, special lineage, or she has, like, some important skill. Whereas in this case, Sybil starts out chosen, and then she realizes it is not the blessing that she thought it was, and she, like, sets out soon searching for purpose. So instead of a story about, like, needing to come into this power that was, like, you were selected for, it's more about, like, what is my purpose in life? And I felt like that was, like, a very universal, very human concern. And then, I mean, I hope that this isn't, like, so widely relatable, but she was, like, dealing with survivor's guilt, which I thought was really interesting. Like, it felt like her concerns were much more. More immediately relatable than in other books. You know, a lot of Romantasy main characters tend to be young. I don't know if bratty is the right word, but, like, they're immature. And a lot of Romantasy is enemies to lovers. And so they're, like, starting a romantic relationship with this man who either, like, is their enemy, treats them poorly, is dismissive of them, and they're like, I don't know what to do. And, like, I just. I felt like Sybil was more emotionally mature. Like, she felt more adult than a lot of other Romantasy characters. And I was like, oh, yes, I'm not frustrated with you in the same way that I'm like, oh, my God, Feyre. Like, what are you doing?
- [29:36]
A
Would you not consider this enemies to lovers?
- [29:38]
B
I would consider it enemies to lovers in that they have different worldviews about the gods. They're, like, intellectual enemies, maybe, but, like, they're never on different sides. Like, even from the beginning, when she's like, I need you to help me sneak out of the cathedral. Like, he does it. Like, they're really just enemies in their beliefs. Which also made the romance better for me because I usually find an enemies to lovers romance difficult to sell me on. You're either too much of enemies or it's too flimsy. And you're not enough of enemies. So I liked that. This was not what I would consider, like, a full enemies to lovers.
- [30:21]
A
Yeah. And to your point, I think the power dynamic was really cool because she. In her own way, she was very powerful and sort of revered and almost famous, and I guess people kind of sexualized her power in a way, and they kind of like, oh, I want to look. I want to look beneath the shroud, and everyone wants to be with them, and. But when they go, you know, out on their journey and they meet people like, oh, my gosh, a diviner. And it just changes the dynamic entirely, I think, and. And gave her a lot of depth, in my opinion.
- [30:52]
B
How are you picturing the shroud, by the way? I found this really difficult. I was picturing. Can I tell you? I was picturing it like a ninja turtle's bandana over their eyes, but, like, without eye holes. Okay. That you too.
- [31:05]
A
Well, at first I kind of thought it's just like a, you know, a veil. But then as it went on, people kept referencing, like, touching her chin or kissing her, and I was like, what is happening?
- [31:18]
B
It's not covering as much as her. Of her face as I initially thought either.
- [31:21]
A
Yeah. But I'm like, it had to be kind of in place in order for, you know, everyone not to see her. Her stone eyes. So. Yeah. I don't know. It made me go back and look at the COVID again, though, which was. And the COVID made me love the.
- [31:37]
B
COVID over her head. But the COVID is beautiful.
- [31:39]
A
She's. She's drowning. Yeah. It's a really cool cover that I appreciate so much. Now, having read the book.
- [31:45]
B
Yeah.
- [31:45]
A
Were you into Rory? And I must say, before you answer that in this negative, prolific Goodreads review, this reviewer only refers to Rory as Eyeliner Elmo, which.
- [32:01]
B
Which is.
- [32:02]
A
Oh, God, I couldn't stop thinking about. And I had to share.
- [32:06]
B
Oh, God, I liked him. I thought he was maybe a little thin on backstory. Like, it was really just summarized, but I was like, I'm not sure I know enough about you, but I do feel like I understood. And he acted consistently, like, in the present. And I was like, yes, I understand who you are as a character right now. I don't understand everything that's informed that necessarily. I loved that he was, like, so head over heels for her and wasn't trying to hide it. It wasn't a game. I liked that. And I loved. There was this line kind of early in the book where she thinks that he might be one of the Omens. Because he has the Artful Brigand's coin. And he says, I'm not one of your precious gods, diviner. I'm the one who's killing them. And I was like, you're so hot.
- [32:56]
A
Okay. See, there were moments where I was like, hot. But every time, every goddamn time, this guy was like, you like that? I'm a bad knight.
- [33:05]
B
I was like, it worked for me. Stop it. I worked for me.
- [33:08]
A
I was like, fucking hate this. I was like, I cannot deal with. You think you want a good night, but I'm a bad night.
- [33:16]
B
That's not how I was reading it. I wasn't reading it.
- [33:18]
A
If, like, that's how I was reading it.
- [33:21]
B
I did half listen to it this time. I do think that helps that somebody else is acting out the dialogue in a way that prevents me from reading it. Like that.
- [33:30]
A
You were into the eyeliner.
- [33:31]
B
No, but I was into the symbolic nature of the eyeliner. And that it was like, in deference to. Wasn't it like, Maude's tribe or whatever you want to call it, wore eyeliner because of the tree sprites.
- [33:46]
A
Oh, wow. I might have missed that. But I felt like, make it better.
- [33:49]
B
It was like something he adopted out of, like, respect for mods lineage, which I was like, okay, I like this. You're like a.
- [33:57]
A
That changes things. That's better. Because I was kind of picturing Adam Lambert.
- [34:01]
B
Sure.
- [34:01]
A
And maybe that works for some people. For me, it just kind of threw the night vibe off. I did really like the hot spring scene.
- [34:08]
B
Oh, my God. So one thing that worked really well for me about this book is it is just dripping in longing. Like, I think other Romantasy books have more explicit on the page physical interactions. And in this one, they prolonged it so long, like when they were in the hot springs, I was sure they were going to kiss. I'm like, yes, absolutely, you're gonna kiss here. And instead, their first intimate act is that he, like, bites her, but in a gentle and sexy way. I was screaming.
- [34:39]
A
I was screaming, twilight. I'm just saying. I agree. To me, the best part of that scene was that nothing actually happens. And then he just leaves. And she was like, I'm gonna. I need a minute. And I was like, yeah, I get it. I get that for sure.
- [34:56]
B
Also, after she's injured and she wakes up and she's in the chiming wood and he finds her and there's this really intimate moment where she ends up telling him her name. And again, I was like, oh, this is where they're gonna kiss. Even though she was, like, just recovering from a very serious injury, which I was like, ah, you're kind of taking advantage of her if you kiss her. But instead of. Instead, they, like, she put some of her blood in his mouth. Which sounds vile when I say this, but, like, it mirrored the divining scene, and it was, like, so intimate. Like, there was just so much longing in this book. And I was, oh, my God, I was so here for it.
- [35:36]
A
Do you think the payoff was worth it?
- [35:38]
B
Yes and no. I think the on the page. I keep saying yes and no. I cannot answer a straight question. I think that the on the page sex was less sexy than in, say, like, Fourth Wing or in other series. I think, like, the sex scenes, if you're reading for, like, the smutty part of it, is better. But I thought that I was like, oh, my God, you two want each other so badly. I, like, really believed in that. And I thought that the moment where he's telling her she takes off her shroud, he's telling her how beautiful she is, and the juxtaposition with her seeing her own eyes and thinking about how ugly she is, I thought it was, like, really powerful. Like, I thought that the sex scene had more meaning and it maybe did more for the story and the plot than it does in other books. But it was all less sexy because.
- [36:32]
A
It'S, like, a big moment that. When she's been, like, dreading. What? Yeah, I thought about that, and I really liked it overall, too. But I did think, like, would it have been more powerful if she saw for herself first and then showed him?
- [36:44]
B
No, Because I don't love a plotline where the man has to convince the woman that she's beautiful. And so I thought that, like, him saying it without her feeling negatively was more meaningful. Does that make sense?
- [36:59]
A
Yeah, I see that. I guess I was envisioning, like, she sees it for herself. She decides that after some. I get complicated feelings. I can imagine if you're seeing that your eyes are now stones. She decides, like, okay, this is me, and I'm confident in who I am for X, Y, Z reasons I'm beautiful. And then she shows him, Oh, I thought might have been more powerful than him confirming for her she's beautiful and then doubting it and then him confirming for her again. You know, like, I see it both ways. Like, I think the way it works is good. But I did think, like, I wonder if this had gone a different way, how it would have changed things.
- [37:36]
B
Maybe more scenes, more pages.
- [37:39]
A
Yeah. It's true.
- [37:40]
B
Okay. We've talked about Sybil and Rory. I feel like we cannot not talk about Bartholomew when we're talking about this book's main characters. I saw the same Geneva comment where somebody was commenting on the world building. Somebody said that they would lay down their life for him.
- [37:55]
A
How? It's the best part of the book, for sure.
- [37:57]
B
Okay, yeah. Like, what did you think of Bartholomew?
- [38:00]
A
Oh, yeah, I loved him. I felt about him how I felt about the Dragon of the Wing. I can't.
- [38:05]
B
Taryn.
- [38:05]
A
Yes. And I feel like the book is nothing without him. So much so that I actually got. At one point, I was like, oh, is this gonna go a project Hail Mary direction where the friendship story is actually the most powerful thing? I would have loved that. But I thought he was so funny. I don't know if, like, the reveal at the end really changed how I viewed him.
- [38:29]
B
Like, it. Shut your whore mouth.
- [38:31]
A
What? What?
- [38:32]
B
That was one of the most powerful scenes in the book. I felt like.
- [38:36]
A
I don't know. It didn't. What? It didn't hit. It didn't hit. I'm sorry. I. I know. I. I'm glad it did for you. I still loved him. I still loved him so much, but it felt a little info dumpy for me. I don't know. It's hard to explain. I feel like I'm now denigrating the character, but I'm not.
- [38:56]
B
I thought Racky sucked a little. You're like, he was the best.
- [39:01]
A
But, like, it's not really. It's not about the character. It's about how he was used in that scene. I just felt like I didn't know if that was what I was craving. But I loved him. I thought he was amazing. Like. Okay, so tell me about, like, your experience reading that reveal at the end and him telling Sybil all this stuff. Like, take me through for your experience, because that is absolutely valid.
- [39:23]
B
Well, I initially thought that he was kind of like a dobby ripoff from Harry Potter. He's comic relief. He's saying these mixed up aphorisms or idioms, basically. And, you know, she's always like, oh, gargoyle. And I. But he's, you know, trying to help. And then he's her squire. And I was like, oh, this is cute. But I was like. It all felt a little sick, silly to me. And then getting to that scene, I thought the scene with the Heartsore Weaver was probably my favorite part of the book. And I thought the way that it was done was also. I loved so Much where he'd been trying to tell her the story for the whole book. He's like, do you want me to tell you a story? And she's always like, no. Like, I'm good. And so he's like, always had this story, and she's always shut him down. And then the way that it comes out, where the heart story weaver is like, yeah. And then the Abbess came here with her first diviner. What was his name? And then Bartholomew was looking for Sybil, and he calls everyone Bartholomew. So he's like, calling from outside the room, and he's like, bartholomew. And she's like, yes, Bartholomew. And I almost was like, I wonder if the book would have been more powerful if it ended on that line and then waited for the whole battle at the cathedral for book two. Because I was like, oh, my God, this takes on a whole new meaning. And I don't know if you could have cut it there without going into his story. I guess maybe that's the way a Book two could have started. And I thought the story was really powerful. I mean, it was info dumpy. But it didn't bother me because he'd been trying to tell her this story the whole time. And also it seemed like he was retelling something that the Abbess told him. And so the first page, the prologue of the book, is actually the Abbess speaking, not him speaking, because also, it was like he feels kind of guileless in a way. So it was like when the line says, to tell a story is, in some part to tell a lie, isn't it? I was like, that doesn't sound like his voice.
- [41:24]
A
So you're making me want to reread it, because I feel like you're inspiring me to appreciate things that I have not yet appreciated. But now I'm like, oh, you know what? You're right. So I would.
- [41:33]
B
I read this book twice myself, and I think that rereading anything, you pick up on different clues that you might have missed the first time.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah. Yes. Do you think that most of this, you were thinking about the. After the first time you read it, or do you think it was that second go round that really had you diving into some of the. Especially the beginning and the end of it all?
- [41:55]
B
I think the beginning and the end of it all came more into focus the second time. I also think some of the clues that he'd been trying to tell her the story all along. I think, you know, the first time, I'm really reading for the world and the romance.
- [42:08]
A
Okay, yeah, same. Which you Don't. That's what I was focused on.
- [42:11]
B
There's not, like, a ton of foreshadowing for necessarily.
- [42:14]
A
Do you think that the book would work without Bartholomew?
- [42:17]
B
You know, my temptation is to say yes and no. It would be a less.
- [42:21]
A
You can say that.
- [42:22]
B
It would be a less fun book, for sure. But I still think it could work where it was just like, there was a first diviner. They're not in this story. This is the history of the diviners. Again, it would probably be pretty info dumpy. I strongly prefer it this way, but I guess my inclination is to say yes. It could have worked.
- [42:43]
A
Okay. I think it would work too.
- [42:46]
B
It wouldn't be as special.
- [42:47]
A
Yeah. I think that his character added an important feeling of warmth that was needed. Although the book is cold and damp and all these things, I think it needed lightness and heart beyond the romance. And he did it so well.
- [43:03]
B
Well, let's talk about beyond the romance. Did you foresee that the diviners were dead before Sibyl found out from the ardent ordsmen? Like, what did you think was happening in this plot? Because, I mean, my mind did not automatically go to, like, they're being fed to the gods.
- [43:19]
A
I had no idea what was happening. It did make perfect sense once we got to it. I was like, oh, yes, we know for a little while that they want their blood. And I'm like, that does make sense. I wanted them to be alive really badly. Like, at least some of them or one of them. I really did. How did you feel about it?
- [43:35]
B
I think that I assumed that maybe they left without her because she seemed like the most rule follower. She'd never gone to Coulson Faire before with the rest of them. She never snuck out. She wasn't having little flings with the people who came to the cathedral. So I was like, yeah, she kind of is the stick in the mud. So if you were gonna have an escape plan, like, maybe you wouldn't tell her. And so, yeah, I think I thought that maybe they'd crafted a plan and abandoned her.
- [44:04]
A
That's a good theory.
- [44:05]
B
And so it was so heart wrenching to be like, oh, she's looking for them. And, like, they left without her. And then you're like, oh, my God. No. They're like human sacrifices.
- [44:16]
A
And I think the thing that made it hit the hardest was the one by one of it all. When they were leaving. Oh, that was when she'd wake up and they'd be gone. That was the part I was, like, so hooked. Cause I Thought it was so mysterious and chilling and yeah, I loved how it opened that way. I loved it.
- [44:33]
B
Okay, let's go to the ending. How did the ending work for you? I understand the ending is my least favorite part, so I'm not.
- [44:45]
A
So I have to full transparency. I saw someone post about this book earlier this week and they said, I feel about this book like you could have just done one perfect super strong season, but instead you had to leave room for a season two. Oh, and also it's fantasy. So like, I knew that it would be a cliffhanger. It was fine. I wasn't like outraged or anything. I was just, oh. Like, I don't know. It was very Game of Thrones, the boy king kind of thing. What about you? Because I feel like at that point we've just had the Bartholomew reveal. You're like as emotionally on it you've ever been. So walk me through what getting to that twist was like.
- [45:28]
B
Okay, so I almost wish it ended at Bartholomew. I understand why the ending scenes back at the cathedral needed to happen. I rather them have happened at the top of a book too. So I guess I disagree with the commenter that, like, I just wish it happened at the top of a book too, instead of saving it for the ending. Like, it felt a little too neat. The Abbess just being like, here is my evil villain origin story and just telling you instead of discovering anything. It also felt very rushed. Like there's three huge things. They kill the Abbess, they destroy the cathedral, and then they're double crossed by Benji. And at one point Sybil says, like, Rory was bleeding out. And I was like, is he. Like, I didn't realize.
- [46:18]
A
But then Benji's like, he'll be fine. I was like, yeah.
- [46:21]
B
Like, I was like, I didn't.
- [46:22]
A
What?
- [46:22]
B
Everything's happening so quickly that I was like, nothing landed as hard as it could have. Although there was one line that I pulled out that really worked for me kind of right towards the end. She says, just as I'd been all those weeks ago, I'm barefoot in the apple orchard, martyring myself. And I was like, that is a mic drop line to me.
- [46:48]
A
That's very good.
- [46:49]
B
Yeah, I. Yeah, I really, really liked that.
- [46:53]
A
Do you think I have a first question for you.
- [46:55]
B
Okay, hit me.
- [46:56]
A
When is the next one coming out?
- [46:58]
B
It's expected to be released in 2026. I mean, that's from the AI overview.
- [47:03]
A
That's interesting. Which we know we don't trust.
- [47:05]
B
Which we don't trust.
- [47:06]
A
But I guess my question with the endings of Romantasy books with this book is, are they written with the sort of larger picture knowledge that most people are reading this and going truly, like, right into the next. So it's not so much like you're trying to land the plane and, like, create this big perfect ending. It's like a cliffhanger, as in, like, the end of a chapter. That's all it is. It's not really the end, in which case I'm like, I don't know if we can judge the endings the same way that we judge them for other books necessarily.
- [47:37]
B
Well, I think there are two distinct camps of people. The people who read in real time, where this is the ending until 2026. And you're like, okay, you have to make me want to read that book versus the people who have the second book available. In which case I agree with you. If you really like the rest of it, having a softer ending probably isn't a deal breaker.
- [47:56]
A
How do you feel?
- [47:58]
B
I mean, I'll definitely read the second book. I guess one of my biggest open questions is that, to me, the ending sets this up as, like, a fight between Rory and Benji, our possibly alcoholic boy king. And, like, he doesn't strike me as a worthy adversary because even far into the book, he's kind of just a prop. Maud and Rory are telling him what to do. He's kind of hapless. He's, like, easy to take advantage of. And I'm like, I don't know that this kid's a worthy adversary. Like, I don't know. Is that an interesting book to read? So I'm like, is there a bigger boss? Is there, like, someone else that we're going up against in book two? Or does he play it into someone else's hands that then becomes part of it? So, yeah, that part felt the most anticlimactic to me, where I was like, I'm not sure that I believe that you could pull this off. Benji. Like, there was no scene where he's training.
- [49:01]
A
That's true. Yeah.
- [49:02]
B
There's no scene where he's doing a lot of training, and it's like, oh, he's a gifted swordsman to be able to pull this off. So it was really just that their defenses were down.
- [49:10]
A
He's a very kind of flat character in general. So maybe the second book will be about learning about his dark side. And maybe it'll be like, you read the first book and you're like, now it all clicks. I mean, obviously he has a dark side. We know this. But I mean, like, as you said, he never seemed smart and calculating.
- [49:30]
B
Yeah.
- [49:30]
A
You know, winning against him, you would.
- [49:33]
B
Just be like, yeah, he's an idiot. Like, that didn't feel satisfying.
- [49:38]
A
Yeah.
- [49:39]
B
You know what? It really surprised me about the ending. So I was trying to think about how I felt about Rory and Sybil being separated, because the romance reader in me is like, yes, we want a happily ever after. I want the lovers to end up together. And I was thinking about it, and I was like, I actually think that this is for the best, because in Fourth Wing, the lovers end up together. I'm gonna spoil the end of Fourth Wing really quickly. Just the first book. So if you do not want to hear that, just fast forward twice. It'll be quick. At the end of Fourth Wing, the couple ends up together. They join the resistance, and then the whole beginning of the second book is just like, basically about her insecure attachment style. And it was so annoying.
- [50:18]
A
So I don't even know how far I got, but so I'm almost like, did not get far in the second one.
- [50:23]
B
Instead having it be that they end up separated, and now he has to go rescue her. Even though that means less romance in the second book. Like, it doesn't just start from, yes, we. We love each other. More sex, more like, developing this relationship. I was like, I think I actually prefer that because otherwise you need to have plot in the romance. You need to have, like, it can't just be like, this is great and going swimmingly.
- [50:54]
A
Was the second Fourth Wing so bad that you would not read the next one?
- [50:58]
B
No, I mean, I did read the next one, but I. Oh, wait, there's.
- [51:01]
A
Another one over there.
- [51:02]
B
Third one. Yeah. But I strongly. I feel like the second one is, like, by and far the weakest to me.
- [51:07]
A
Oh, there is a third. Oh, my God, it's so fast.
- [51:10]
B
It had a huge cliffhanger such that I was like, okay, I'm definitely gonna read the third one, but I felt a little tricked into it.
- [51:19]
A
You will read the next book in this series, though.
- [51:22]
B
In the Night in the Stonewater Kingdom. Yes. Yeah, for sure. Will you?
- [51:26]
A
It depends. I won't pre order it, but if I was in a certain mood, like, if it was a day such as today, Non Stop Rain, Dark, Moody, I may pop into my local bookstore and see it and think, okay, I'll give it a whirl. But I don't think I'll be, like, thinking about it in the interim, necessarily. But there were moments that were just, to me, so deliciously transportive. Like, I just felt like, oh, this is so different than everything I have read lately, and it is so nice to be in that headspace. So, yeah, I could definitely see myself chasing those moments again.
- [52:02]
B
What do you think will happen in book two? Or what areas do you think we'll dive deeper into?
- [52:08]
A
I think we'll learn more about Benji. I imagine he'll become a more fully fleshed out character, more evil. But also, I think I would like. I think it'd be interesting to see also, like, a more charming side even. You know, like, kind of give me both, give me both, make it complicated. I mean, I think it's just going to be Rory trying to, like, rescue her, get her back, I guess.
- [52:32]
B
Okay.
- [52:34]
A
What about you?
- [52:35]
B
I think that there's going to be a lot more about the sprites. And, you know, they were kind of alluded to where it's like, we're trapping them, we're starving them. So it seemed like there was a lot more to be told with the sprites and kind of that lore, or maybe it's like there's magic there or something. Another thing that I really wonder is, so the Abbess made the magical objects using the magic of Aisling's spring, but it seemed like the hammer and chisel which she gave to Sibyl might have some powers that we have not discovered yet to, like, manufacture magical objects. And I almost wonder, like, can Sybil make new or more magical objects?
- [53:20]
A
That seems like a good guess.
- [53:22]
B
So I'm curious if more magic comes into it where this one was very much about. Like, we're discovering that all the magic in the world is not real, the gods are not real. Like, the magic is the spring in these objects, but the omens are great pretenders. I wonder if, like, there actually is more of a magical system that we just haven't discovered yet.
- [53:46]
A
What would be Your ideal book 2 reading experience?
- [53:50]
B
I think it would be really fun if Rory and Bartholomew are kind of, like, on the road as a buddy comedy for a lot of it. Like, that could be, like, very project Hail Mary vibes, and they're, you know, so opposite. Like, I could see that being really fun and funny.
- [54:06]
A
We'll definitely read it if that's what happens. That would be incredible.
- [54:10]
B
But I don't know beyond that, to give that commenter or that reviewer that you saw credit. Like, it doesn't feel like there's a ton of open mysteries other than Benji making Sybil go with him, that I'm like, oh, yes, there's more to the quest. So I'm very Curious to see where she takes it.
- [54:29]
A
I know a lot of people are going to be waiting. This is a huge book.
- [54:32]
B
Okay, one last question for you. I was curious as I was reading this. As someone who grew up in religious schooling, did this book about questioning the authority of the gods have any, like, extra resonance with you?
- [54:44]
A
Do you feel that is a great question? I don't think so, but I did appreciate that part of it, for sure. Yeah. I would be interested to hear from other people who have grown up in religion and now have. What's the word for it? Deconstructed it anyway. Have evolved in their views how they would feel about it. But no, that didn't strike me necessarily. Okay.
- [55:07]
B
I was just wondering as I was reading and thinking of you.
- [55:11]
A
Oh, I appreciate that so much.
- [55:13]
B
Okay, shall we get out of this book and into some ed matter?
- [55:17]
A
Yes. But let's take one more ad break first. This episode is sponsored by Quints. By now you've probably heard us talk about quints more than a time or two. And if you have not pulled the trigger and gotten yourself something nice yet, your main question or hesitancy might be is it really as good of quality as they're saying? So I wanted to take a second to personally confirm that we have both purchased things from Quint. And speaking for myself anyway, I can absolutely say that the clothing and accessories that I have gotten from Quint have felt like markedly better quality than items I own of a similar price point. Like, everything looks better, everything lays better, everything washes better. It really just is that little extra bit of luxury feeling in the clothing.
- [56:09]
B
So my favorite quince item, and I think maybe the item that they're best known for, is my Mongolian cashmere crewneck sweater. It's 50 bucks. You cannot beat that for cashmere. And like, it is comparable in quality to something that is two, three, four times the price. It is a wild value. And we're just getting into potentially cooler weather here. I only have one. I have a camel colored one, but I think I'm definitely going to get a second this year. Like maybe I wonder if they're going to do something in like a cobalt blue or a red. I could see both fitting in nicely into my wardrobe by working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middleman. Quince gives you luxury without the markup, and quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.
- [57:02]
A
Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with quince. Go to quince.com pop for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com BOP to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com BOP.
- [57:24]
B
All right, Olivia, what are you obsessed with?
- [57:27]
A
I am obsessed with the song Night Moves by Bob Seger, which I'm sure you are familiar with.
- [57:33]
B
Yeah. Tell me more about how this happened.
- [57:36]
A
I was thinking about it the other day. I wrote it into a scene I was writing on a whim. And ever since I've been listening to it. And I just think it is one of the most classic, excellent summer songs. You take yourself out for a drive with the windows down and blast this song, like at 5:30pm on a Friday and tell me what can touch you. I think nothing. I just. It is such a classically good song. I love it. It is simple. It's kind of silly. I love it so much. Are you a fan?
- [58:06]
B
I mean, I'm a fan insofar as I like this song, but I haven't really thought about it critically. Like, I'm gonna have to put it on after we finish recording.
- [58:15]
A
You should. And imagine this is how I think about it. Like, I think if you played this song to any person, whether they have reference for it or not, any age group, decades in the future, I think you. You start shimmying a little bit, and I think that's a good sign.
- [58:29]
B
Yeah. Built in shimmy.
- [58:30]
A
Yeah. Well, tell me your obsession.
- [58:32]
B
My obsession is that I got this J. Crew yellow suede bucket bag. Oh, my God. I'm so obsessed with it. I've been having a lot of fun wearing it, even in the summer. I'm like, can you wear suede in the summer? But, like, it's yellow. It's bright yellow. The color on the website is called chartreuse, but I would call it yellow. I am so obsessed with this.
- [58:54]
A
I looked it up. It's so pretty. They have so many nice suede bags. I've been really debating getting. They have one that's just. I don't know the style name. It's just like a shoulder bag. It's kind of a small one and it's red suede. And I love it, but the yellow is so pretty. Great choice.
- [59:09]
B
I love a yellow pop of color. I'm not really somebody who would probably wear a full yellow dress. I would have to be very tan. So having a yellow accessory has made me really happy. I will just say that the only thing that maybe you should know about this bag is that it doesn't fully close on the top. There's just a tie to tie it closed. So like, I don't know that I would wear it in Europe on a crowded subway where I might have a situation to be pickpocketed. But you know, like wearing it out to dinner here I'm like, this is fine.
- [59:46]
A
Good advice. Yeah. Well, what have you read in the past 48 hours?
- [59:51]
B
This book. What about you?
- [59:53]
A
This book.
- [59:54]
B
No new reading. We're gonna have a lot to tell you next episode. I feel like reading wise. On that note, do we know what September's book club pick is here on August 13th as we record this?
- [60:06]
A
I do not know yet. I think we need to chat about it at some point. Give us a minute and we will be sure to update you guys with the pic.
- [60:13]
B
Yeah, we will share it on Instagram and I'm on vacation, so do you want to commit to putting it in the Geneva group too? Like an announcement?
- [60:22]
A
Yeah, sure.
- [60:23]
B
Okay. Okay. Well, that's what we've got for you. I would love to hear you the listeners impressions of this book. So much of why I chose this book is because I loved it and I don't know anyone in person who's also read it. So I am excited to hear from the Night and the Moth fandom. So let's chat. You can find us in the Geneva group under Bat on Paper podcast. We have a Facebook group under Bat on Paper podcast. You can find us on Instagram, you guessed it, Batonpaper podcast. I am on Instagram beccamfreeman and my newsletter is@beccafreeman.substack.com and I am on Instagram.
- [61:07]
A
And substack and my personal website liviamentor. And you can pre order my book Little One, which is out in February right now. And I would appreciate it so very much.
- [61:19]
B
See you next week.
- [61:20]
A
Bye.