← Baking For Business Podcast
Baking For Business Podcast
#Ep 90: From Baking Blogger to Author: 1 on 1 With Sarah Fennel Of Broma Bakery
00:30:07
Loading summary
Transcript56 lines
- [00:02]
Chef Schomburg
Hey, sweet friends. My name is Chef Schomburg. I started my baking business with a bottle of Di Sereno and one bundt cake pan. Fast forward to today. From news to magazines, speaking on national stages and more, I can truly say.
- [00:15]
Amanda
That baking has changed my life. So now as a bakery business coach.
- [00:19]
Chef Schomburg
I get to help others have the same success. I've helped hundreds of my students across the world and my global membership program creates six figure businesses, mainly from home. The the Baking for Business podcast is an extension of that. From actionable tips to valuable tools and resources that can impact you as a business owner. I truly believe y'all, we would never have been given a gift if we couldn't profit and prosper from it. So come on, darling, what are you waiting for?
- [00:51]
Amanda
Hey, what's going on, baking friends? And welcome back to the Baking for Business podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today for another episode. Today we have an amazing guest in the house who has been a blogger for a while and now she is a cookbook author. She is Sarah Fennell, the founder and the beautiful woman behind Roma Bakery. I'm sure y'all familiar with the brand on Instagram. And here to tell us all about her new book, which features so many yummy things as well as just her journey within this sweet, delicious industry, is Sarah herself. So, Sarah, welcome to the Baking for Business podcast.
- [01:28]
Sarah Fennell
Hi, Amanda. Hi, everybody. I'm so excited. Literally, like, baking and business are my two favorite things to talk about. So I'm very excited about this.
- [01:38]
Amanda
Absolutely. That's what we're all about. And so for those who are unfamiliar with you, I want to go ahead and ask. I know you originally started blogging, but what inspired you to start your blog and how did you get your start in the desserts arena?
- [01:56]
Sarah Fennell
Yeah, so I, like many people who are in the food industry, grew up loving food. And so I had a mom who was very much a home baker. Like, she loved and always had cookies or brownies or cakes on the counter, but also, like, she was not technical at all. Like, sometimes her cookies would come out so flat, sometimes they'd be too puffy and overcooked. The biggest thing though was, like, we just had baked goods around because she had a huge sweet tooth. I then, like, got a huge sweet tooth from her. So we really just did it because we love dessert. And at the same time, when I was growing up, I was really into photography. And so when I went to college, I went to college liberal arts school, I went for anthropology. And I really missed having a creative Outlet. And so I decided to basically merge my two passions and take photos of baked goods that I made. And I decided to put it on a blog. I crawled it. Excuse me. I called it Broma Bakery. And it really was completely a hobby. Like, I had no intention from the beginning of turning it into a business. It was very much a creative outlet. So I did that all throughout college, and then I was in the restaurant industry throughout college, and then after. And long story short, I got burnt out in the restaurant industry. It's like, as I'm sure so many of your listeners know, it's so unforgiving. It's so taxing, like, on the body and the mind. It's just like, I have so much respect for people who work in restaurants. So I decided to quit my blog or quit my job cold turkey. And I basically, like, went home and I Googled how to make money on a blog. And I had no idea what I was doing. But I was really fortunate. I had saved up literally $8,500. That's, like, how much money I had to my name. And I decided to give myself two months and figure out if I could turn my blog into a business and into my career. And that was. Oh, my gosh, that was. Whoa, ten years ago. So. So it worked out. But really, it very much started as this hobby thing that I did just because I loved it and I had so much passion for what I was doing. But I also think it. It differs from a lot of other people in this way that I went full time before I had this proof of concept. And I think having that kind of forced me to hustle harder than I would have if I had had something to fall back on.
- [04:39]
Amanda
Yeah, absolutely. That definitely sounds like a beautiful, humble beginning. And you said 10 years ago, almost a decade of blogging and showing up and building your audience. It's amazing that you took that leap of faith with just a little bit saved up. Did you teach yourself, like, when you initially started your blog, were you watching all the YouTube videos? Or was there any particular course or anything you invested in to help you start that blogging journey?
- [05:10]
Sarah Fennell
So I went full time in 2014. So it was very much the beginning of, like, the course era. Like, courses were not, I feel like, big until, you know, 2016, 17, 18. So it was soaking as much free content as I could. It was YouTubing everything, Googling everything, and really just, like, bootstrapping it with what I could figure out. I really tried at that time to make a lot of connections, too, with other People who I knew were doing it full time, and I would literally email them and I would, like, ask for their advice and really just like, get the information that I could. And I think that all of that together was so helpful for me. And I also think that, like, not letting a lack of information stop me from going and figuring it out on my own was also really helpful. So, like, I relied on trying to, like, figure things out, but when I couldn't figure it out, I would still go and try to do it on my own. So trying to figure out, like, why when I was photographing something the light didn't look right, or trying to figure out, like, how to get my edit to look just like how I knew I wanted it in my head, but, like, couldn't find from tutorials online and really, like, a lot of, like, trial and error to kind of like build up.
- [06:31]
Amanda
Trial and error is always the greatest teacher for sure. And so as you started educating yourself and building and you went for the blog, how did you specifically typically decide on the baking niche? Was it just because of that love or did you try other things savory?
- [06:49]
Sarah Fennell
It was really because of a love of baking. Like, I. It was never even a question if I was going to have a blog that was savory or sweet. Like, it was sweet. I felt much more comfortable with baking, and I think in my teens and early twenties, I was just more interested in baking. I am a very technical person. I love when things have, like, their very defined parts. And so baking just really appeals to me in that way. Feels very formulaic. It's interesting. I've learned to cook better since then, and I really like cooking now. But baking has just always it feel like, I'm sure you feel the same. Like, it just feels different. Like there's something about baking that just like, it makes me so much more excited.
- [07:37]
Amanda
Absolutely. You definitely have to do what brings you joy. And so from blogging to now, focusing on a book, can you walk us through the process of turning your blog content into a cookbook? Was that always something that you wanted to go after or was the opportunity just brought to you?
- [07:56]
Sarah Fennell
Yeah, I actually did not want to do a cookbook for the longest this time because I had heard from so many people that it was so much work and I was so worried about just becoming overwhelmed and like, really wanted to make sure I had enough time to devote towards it without going crazy. So for a long time I didn't want to do a cookbook and I was totally fine with being in the online world. I also think that people create cookbooks for so many different reasons. For, for myself and in my journey. I knew that I didn't want to create a book until I felt so, so confident in every aspect of my skills that would go into that book. So feeling really confident in my brand, feeling really confident in the voice and sort of the writing that goes into the book, feeling really confident about the recipes themselves, feeling confident about the photography, feeling confident about how well I could market it. And so it really took me a long time to sort of feel like I had mastery in all of those areas, to finally be okay with being like, okay, now let's put this pen to paper onto something that will exist for the rest of time. And you can't go back and edit it. Like, that's so terrifying to me. So. So, yeah. And in terms of how we structured the book with recipes, it's 100 recipes, 76 of them are brand new, never before seen, that we developed specifically for the book. And then 24 are from the blog. The ones that we picked from the blog we decided to do for two reasons. One, there's some that are just like, fan favorites. Everybody knows them, everybody loves them. So, like, our brown butter chocolate chip cookies are the most popular recipe on our blog. Like, I knew I needed to include those in my cookbook. And then others are ones that are really good base recipes or, or creative recipes, but recipes that, like, are our favorites. We have an oatmeal cream pie cookie recipe in there, and that recipe is like, oh, my God, it's like one of the best recipes I have ever, like, eaten, made, think about. And so those recipes too, these ones that are, like, doing well on the blog, but we really wanted to highlight and bring to a bigger audience. That's what we chose to do too.
- [10:18]
Amanda
I love that because too often people are always, especially as business owners, always in the create, create, create type space when it comes to content. But I love the fact that you repurpose, not in a sense of just, I'm going to add this too, but more so I want to add to the user experience and really just bring out the things that people love already.
- [10:41]
Sarah Fennell
Absolutely. And I think that that's one thing that I really strive for in my business in general, is really making sure I'm centering my content around the user and really keeping, like, who I'm doing it for front and center. Because the more that I can have that picture of who it's for, the better I'm able to figure out, like, would that type of person be interested in this content? Does that type of person even care about, you know, this, would this fit into their lives? And it's like a, for me, it's a really helpful way to sort of figure out just generally what content I should be producing because there's so many amazing recipes out there. There's so many ways that you can do things and it can almost become overwhelming when you're just thinking, oh, just generally this seems good, this seems good, this seems good. And so, yeah, I think like centering the user in that is just so, so important.
- [11:33]
Amanda
What are some of your favorite memories that you've had in creating the book and overall around how long did it take you to go from start to bringing it to fruition?
- [11:44]
Sarah Fennell
So it's been a little over a two year process. I started writing the proposal for the book in June of 2022 and the book comes out in October of 2024. So it's a long process and that's pretty standard. Like two years for a cookbook is very standard. Some of my favorite memories, I would say from the process, there's the less discreet memories, I would say of just like in being in the writing stage and writing a head note that I'm just like, yes. Oh, that's so good. Or like that's, that's such a fun like way of getting someone excited about this and just getting in those, those grooves, it just felt so good. And then I feel like, I mean turning in the manuscript was just like, it felt like such a, such an accomplishment and something I was so happy about. I mean, I think it's like 80,000 words or something. Or maybe it's, maybe it's closer to 90, but like it's, it's a lot, it's a lot of words. And obviously never having written a book before, that just felt so cool to be able to like have this big body of work to turn in. And then I have had so much fun with the more like salesy part of it, like introducing the book to my audience, seeing how they're responding, creating content to push pre orders and things like that. It's been so fun because I feel like it's called back on like my course days. So I actually had a school that was like for food photography and we had a bunch of different courses in it.
- [13:24]
Amanda
Hold on.
- [13:24]
Sarah Fennell
Pause.
- [13:25]
Chef Schomburg
Yeah.
- [13:27]
Sarah Fennell
Oh, let's talk.
- [13:28]
Amanda
Carson, I know that you're going. You took my next question from me.
- [13:34]
Sarah Fennell
Okay. So it was really cool to like have the sales aspect of that and like be able to do that in this new way.
- [13:41]
Amanda
So, yeah, and speaking of sales, one thing that people may not know about you, besides the blog and besides the cookbook, is that you actually took a great chunk of your time to step in as a course creator and help other bloggers with food photography and courses and things like that. So did you tap into any of that experience and bring it over?
- [14:10]
Sarah Fennell
Absolutely. So it was so interesting to me because when you're creating courses, you're somewhat following this, like, pattern, this sales pattern. And the biggest thing I learned from that, because, I mean, we probably did. We probably did between 30 and 40 launches of all of our courses over the lifetime of foodography school, which was like six years. Basically, I shut it down because I wanted to spend more time growing my career. Like, it got to the point where, like, I needed to prioritize myself and like, give myself time for the book and things like that. But anyway, so. So we, we did so many launches, and there was so much invaluable information that I learned from doing those launches and like, understanding how to, how to connect with a consumer base on a bunch of different levels and understanding that you need so many touch points and so many, like, sort of points to hit a sale. Like, just, there's so many fascinating parts about courses that, like, I really geek out on. And I directly translated that to the cookbook in terms of our entire sales sequence. So that's been so fun. And it's something that I never would have thought was so useful in my own career, but it's, it's made such a difference.
- [15:38]
Amanda
How have you handled. Because too often I meet people that want to do something different, and I'm always advocating and telling people, you know, baking is just a skill. There are many different ways, like course creation. I know you also had a membership, but blogging. So when you did decide to do the teaching portion and then you stated you recently closed it, how was it to. To pivot? And how do you view your pivots? Because I just look at them as tests. I know some people will say, well, oh, it didn't do well, or it failed. And I'm like, no, nothing fails. They're just, they're just tests that help me bring the vision to life more. So was it hard to close that chapter?
- [16:19]
Sarah Fennell
It was really hard to close that chapter. I, I really dragged out the close as long as I could. Like, I, I tried to keep it open as long as I could because I didn't want to close it down. It just felt like, I mean, not only did I feel like it was impactful for the people we were doing it for, but, like, I also had a team. I loved being part of a team. I was the employer for all of these people. Like, that was so important and special for me. But I think ultimately the, the reason why I chose to pivot was because I was finding that my own personal brand was often taking a backseat to all of the things I had to do for photography school and to show up for other people. And I think that if you're listening to this and you create courses or, you know, are interested in creating courses, you can absolutely do that and have an amazing and fulfilling career, and that can be your main thing. I have always balanced that with my own career. And I ultimately just had to make a decision. Do I want to have my career be focused on helping other people's careers, or do I want to have my career be focused on taking all my knowledge that I do know and leveraging that for my own career and for my personal journey? It just made more sense to continue on my path and, and really be able to put as much energy and effort as I could into my own career. But I don't think that, like, I. I don't think that's like, the right move for everybody at all. It's just what, like, felt. It felt right for me. Like, I felt like I would be doing a disservice to my own career by not giving it all of my energy, you know?
- [18:12]
Amanda
Absolutely. And I mean, who doesn't want to aim for the title New York Times best selling author, right? Yeah.
- [18:20]
Sarah Fennell
Yeah. But like, that's, I think also what's so amazing about, like, being in the food space online right now. There are so many different ways that you can, like, reach that top. There's so many different ways that you can explore. And like, just like you're saying, like, baking is a skill. And it's so interesting you say that because I, I had this lecture that I did for students at the School of the New York Times, and it was about how you can do whatever you want in the food space, but you have to make sure that you're thinking skill first. So, like, baking's a skill, photography is a skill, marketing's a skill. And you can take those skills and you can spin them in so many different directions, but it has to be a skill first and foremost.
- [19:01]
Amanda
Absolutely. And it's definitely was still an amazing thing because there are so many different bloggers and bakers who were able to learn from you. The one the ones who did succeeded. And you can definitely tell when I scroll on someone's page. I remember the early days of. I'm like, oh, I know where you took a class at, because that look is just nice. Is nice. It's very, very nice. Absolutely. You yourself, now that you're an author, do you have any favorite cookbooks or cookbook authors that inspired you?
- [19:38]
Sarah Fennell
I, like, literally have an entire closet of cookbooks to my left. I'm like, I need to peek in. Yeah. Okay. So I think. So I think in terms of vibes, I think that Molly Baza's two books Cook this Book and More is more. I think they have added so much personality to the cookbook space, and I think she's done such a good job at really pushing the boundaries of, like, how fun and how creative a cookbook can be. So I think that she's done such a phenomenal job in terms of, like, books that I love to bake out of and cook out of the most. I'm absolutely obsessed with Otto Langhi's books. I go to them all the time. And one thing I love about those books is it really feels like you can create an entire meal or an entire experience with like, multiple recipes in the book. I love books where, like, you can mix and match recipes together. So, like, get a side from this chapter and get a main from this chapter and a dessert over here, but they still all sort of tell a story and work together. So I love that. And then I, I also, I mean, I have to, like, nod to Claire Saffitz. I think that what she's done with baking books is phenomenal. She's just shown that there is this really big audience out there that wants a strictly baking book. And I, I love that. I think that the baking community is a little underserved in terms of cookbooks. Like, there's not a ton of broad baking books out there. There's a lot of sort of like niche down single subject baking books. But yeah, I think, like, she's. She really has shown in the last few years that there's such a need for more of those.
- [21:27]
Amanda
With your book coming out, what would be the first recipe that you would want somebody to dig in and try?
- [21:34]
Sarah Fennell
Oh, my God, that is such a tough question.
- [21:39]
Amanda
It's like picking a baby.
- [21:41]
Sarah Fennell
I know. It is like picking a baby. Okay, okay. So maybe we'll do like sort of a quick and easy recipe and then a more like fun takes your entire afternoon recipe. Quick and easy recipe. Okay. I might go with one of the Single serve recipes. The single serve double chocolate cookie that's on the front of the book is absolutely incredible. It creates two giant cookies. It is so good. I make it probably like once every two weeks whenever I want. Just like a little cookie at the end of the night. So that is so, so good. And it's just so easy. If you're looking for like a full afternoon bake, the Nutella Smith island cake is insane. It's basically, it's nine layers of vanilla cake, really like this very, very eggy, delicious, like yellow cake batter. And then the layers in the middle are this like Nutella ganache. That is just so good. You know, it has a little bit of a salty note, a little bit of like a umami note from the nuts in it. It is like, it's absolutely insane. It's, it's such a good cake.
- [22:53]
Amanda
That sounds so delicious. And I'm seeing so many more people enjoy ganache now, aside from just regular buttercream. So that sounds like a wonderful twist to a classic.
- [23:03]
Sarah Fennell
Yeah. And it was really hard to get the texture right because with ganache you're obviously working with two or one thing that's a liquid, like a cream, and one thing that's a solid chocolate. And with this you're kind of working with a liquid and, and like a, a spread. And so like with the Nutella and so getting that, that consistency right was, was really tough, but I think we did good. I, you know, whoever's listening to this, get back to me, let me know.
- [23:34]
Amanda
All right. And I'm sure it tastes phenomenal. I've been able to sneak and look at it. So I saw the picture of it. It is stunning. And lastly, before I let you go, do you have any plans for the book? Will you do a book tour or any particular fun lives or anything you have scheduled?
- [23:55]
Sarah Fennell
Yes. So we're doing a book tour. It's going to be in the month of October. I think it's nine cities. It might be ten something around there. But we're doing like a full country book tour. So there's information for that on my website. It's all, it's brahmanbakery.com cookbook. It's all there. I'm so excited for that because something that I have loved about this process is going from being online to like, in real life. And there's the online to real life of having a physical book instead of, you know, a blog post and pages. But then there's the real life, like meeting all these people who have like Pretty much given me my career, like to be able to actually meet the people who follow me, bake from my site, like buy the products that I recommend, all that. Like I am just so, so excited to meet people.
- [24:52]
Amanda
Absolutely. And what advice would you give to anyone who's a baker who maybe wants to get started blogging and, and do as you and just start their own blog? What advice or tips would.
- [25:05]
Sarah Fennell
Oh my God, so many tips. Okay, so first of all, we talked about skills based so I think like without a doubt work on those skills and baking and make sure they're really the best they can be. But, but also on that note, if you're talking about going into the online space, visuals are still so, so important. So signing up for a course that involves photography, even if it's just iPhone, photography is going to be so helpful. Even if you are planning to mostly do videos like creating reels and TikToks. I use so much compositional knowledge every single time I go to shoot a video. So I think having that background is going to help to make your bakes, which you're spending so much time on and are, you know, beautiful, I'm sure in front of you. It's going to make that translate to the screen because without that it's like you're, you're just shooting yourself in the foot if it can't look as pretty as it does in front of your eyes. And then I would also say that unfortunately for you know, some content is like the biggest way to really boost your career right now. So being really, really involved on social media, and I say unfortunately because it really does mean that you have to be creating content every single day in order to see that growth on social media. And sometimes that can just mean doing stories. Sometimes, like it doesn't have to be like a full on post, but showing up on social media every single day is just going to be so, so helpful not only for boosting your chances of success in the algorithms, but also for giving you those little analytical moments of this didn't work. This did work. Ooh, people really responded to this. Ooh, no they don't like this. And it's like this teaching moment every single day that you're just gathering data on. So just showing up online even when you don't feel like it.
- [26:54]
Amanda
I love that. Those are all wonderful tips. Sarah, from the bottom of my little southern heart, thank you so much for coming by today for telling us all about your new book. I'll have all the links to the book, the book tour. Sarah's website in the show notes. And before I let you go, Sarah, are you ready for a game of lightning round?
- [27:15]
Sarah Fennell
I'm so ready.
- [27:16]
Amanda
All right. What is a dessert you cannot live without?
- [27:20]
Sarah Fennell
Chocolate chip cookies.
- [27:22]
Amanda
What is your favorite color?
- [27:27]
Sarah Fennell
I don't know. I want to say beige. I love neutrals.
- [27:33]
Amanda
That's new. I like that one. All right, who is your celebrity crush?
- [27:40]
Sarah Fennell
Oh, Ryan Reynolds.
- [27:43]
Amanda
Wonderful choice.
- [27:44]
Sarah Fennell
We meant, like, real celebrity crush, right? Yeah. Okay, cool. Oh, my God. No, wait. I mean, Ryan Gosling. Ryan Gosling. Sorry, not Ryan Reynolds. Ryan Gosling. Okay, there we go.
- [27:56]
Amanda
Okay, that's a good one, too. What is your favorite kitchen utensil?
- [28:01]
Sarah Fennell
A whisk.
- [28:02]
Amanda
A whisk. That sounds awesome. And then the last one, which we will have you skip, which is usually what is one of your favorite books. And because you're here with us today, we will recommend that all of our users be sure to pre order or go out and get your new book, Sweet Tooth, which is amazing. Sarah, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. It really is a blast just hearing from all your expertise. And I know so many people are dying to get the book, so we really do appreciate it.
- [28:33]
Sarah Fennell
Thank you so much. Such a blast to talk to you too.
- [28:37]
Chef Schomburg
How amazing was listening to Sarah's journey within this baking industry. You know, her online school was really, she's being so humble, but it was really one of the top places that bloggers went in order to elevate their photography and things on their blog. And so to see her pivot to a cookbook and focusing on her, I love to hear that. One of the things I love the most is honestly, when people are just honest about why they change. Because you hear me say it on here, on social media all the time, like, we have multiple gifts. We can do multiple things. And although niching down is great, if you find that something no longer works for you that it doesn't bring you joy, always think it's amazing to change and to do something else. And so it's not really that big of a change for her because recipes have always been the center of her business and her brand. But it's nice to see her now step into the realm of being an author. She's actually currently on book tour and I have all that information below as well as her website and how you can get your hands on a copy of her new book, Sweet Tooth. I pray that this episode inspired you, motivated you, and encouraged you. And please do me a favor, tag me on social media as you listen. I would love to shout you out and share you. Thanks so much for tuning in. Have a great day and bye for now.