221. Baking it Down - Money Talks with the Miracles

Summary

Episode 221: Baking it Down - Money Talks with the Miracles Release Date: July 22, 2025

Hosts: Heather and Corrie Miracle
Guest: Ashley Miracle

---

Introduction

In this episode of Baking it Down with Sugar Cookie Marketing, hosts Heather and Corrie Miracle welcome Ashley Miracle, Heather's older sister, to discuss financial management tailored for bakery businesses. Ashley, who has extensive experience in marketing and personal finance through her role at YNAB (You Need a Budget), shares valuable insights on budgeting, financial planning, and leveraging financial tools to enhance business operations.

---

Welcome and Personal Introductions

[00:00] Heather:
Heather opens the episode by introducing Ashley, emphasizing the familial bond and the challenge of filling the high standards set by previous guest speakers like Amy.

[00:18] Ashley:
Ashley introduces herself as the eldest Miracle sister and shares a bit about her family dynamics, including her younger siblings Corey and Summer.

[01:02] Heather:
Heather humorously references Corey's attendance at Olive Garden, hinting at ongoing personal stories and family support.

---

Ashley's Professional Background

[01:37] Heather:
Heather inquires about Ashley’s career path, leading to a discussion about her transition from finance to marketing.

[01:40] Ashley:
Ashley details her six-year tenure at YNAB, a personal finance app, and her previous roles in marketing for a small remodeler and a government contractor. She highlights her responsibilities, including auditing resumes for authenticity, which underscores her attention to detail and integrity in her professional endeavors.

---

Introduction to YNAB and Budgeting for Bakeries

[03:02] Ashley:
Ashley introduces YNAB, clarifying that it stands for "You Need a Budget" (not a wine app as Heather humorously misinterprets), and explains its relevance to personal and business finance management.

[03:29] Heather:
Heather shares her personal experience with YNAB, praising its functionality by likening it to a "blanket over top of my checking account," which helps in allocating funds effectively without the mental strain of managing unassigned money.

[04:12] Ashley:
Ashley elaborates on the YNAB method, likening it to digital cash envelopes that prevent the need to carry physical cash, thereby enhancing flexibility and security in financial management.

---

The YNAB Method: Giving Every Dollar a Job

[05:35] Heather:
Heather delves deeper into the YNAB philosophy of assigning every dollar a purpose, highlighting how it aids in differentiating between guaranteed expenses, variable costs, and discretionary spending.

[10:08] Heather:
Heather discusses the importance of adapting the budget when financial realities change, such as unexpected expenses, emphasizing that YNAB facilitates easy reallocation of funds without viewing it as a failure.

[11:29] Heather:
Heather introduces Ashley's "recipe for bakers," a set of five questions to guide budget planning every time new income is received. The first question focuses on prioritizing immediate financial needs before the next paycheck arrives.

Notable Quote:
[12:24] Ashley:
"This helps you prioritize by keeping you on plan and forces you to make trade-offs, ensuring you're always aligned with your financial goals."

---

Handling Irregular Expenses and Building Financial Resilience

[16:55] Ashley:
Ashley shares a personal anecdote about receiving an unexpected property tax bill, illustrating the anxiety that comes with unforeseen expenses and the importance of planning for them.

[17:35] Heather:
Heather compares unexpected business costs to roller coaster rides, advocating for budgeting strategies that turn financial unpredictability into manageable, less stressful experiences.

[19:03] Heather:
Heather emphasizes the significance of knowing one's "cost to be," a YNAB feature that calculates essential monthly expenses, enabling better salary negotiations and informed financial decisions.

---

Strategic Budgeting for Business Growth

[21:20] Ashley:
Ashley outlines the benefits of smoothing out both spending and income through consistent budgeting practices, which can empower bakers to invest confidently in opportunities without falling into debt.

[25:06] Heather:
Heather connects financial stability to business confidence, illustrating how understanding and managing budgets enables bakers to price their products with assurance rather than desperation.

[27:26] Ashley:
Ashley discusses the flexibility of YNAB in adapting to sudden sales or opportunities, allowing business owners to take advantage without jeopardizing their financial stability.

---

Practical Applications and Personal Insights

[34:06] Ashley:
Ashley shares her favorite budget categories, such as "Just Because" and "Be Learning," which allow for personal indulgences and continuous education, respectively. This balance ensures that budgeting remains sustainable and reflective of individual priorities.

[36:34] Heather:
Heather highlights how strategic budgeting can differentiate a business in a competitive market by allowing for confident decision-making and superior customer service.

[38:32] Heather:
Heather underscores the importance of fostering creativity and planning ahead, using YNAB to allocate funds for future business endeavors like CookieCon, thereby reducing financial anxiety associated with big projects.

---

Overcoming Financial Challenges and Embracing Flexibility

[41:40] Heather & Ashley:
Heather and Ashley discuss the necessity of adapting budgets when unexpected expenses arise, reinforcing that YNAB’s methodology supports flexibility without viewing reallocations as setbacks.

[44:36] Heather:
Heather recalls a personal experience with a scam artist, emphasizing the protective power of a well-maintained budget in safeguarding against financial fraud and mistakes.

---

Listener Questions and Practical Tips

[47:21] Ashley:
Ashley responds to audience questions, offering practical advice on optimizing business aesthetics within a budget, the benefits of outsourcing specific business functions, and leveraging customer feedback to enhance service quality.

Notable Quote:
[55:37] Heather:
"Your financial budgeting approach is a differentiator because it empowers you to manage your business proactively rather than reactively."

---

Effective Free Marketing Strategies

[53:29] Ashley:
Ashley and Heather explore free marketing techniques, emphasizing the power of social proof and storytelling. They discuss utilizing customer reviews and authentic narratives to build trust and attract new clients without incurring additional costs.

[56:37] Heather:
Heather illustrates how genuine customer feedback and strategic storytelling can significantly enhance a bakery's online presence and reputation.

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[73:10] Ashley:
Ashley shares her passion for travel and how budgeting facilitates her ability to enjoy experiences without financial stress, reinforcing the broader life benefits of effective financial management.

[75:02] Heather:
Heather and Ashley wrap up the episode by engaging in a light-hearted "Who’s More Likely To..." segment, highlighting their personalities and reinforcing the familial camaraderie that underpins Sugar Cookie Marketing.

[93:35] Ashley:
Ashley thanks Heather for hosting and extends well wishes to listeners, especially those in the midst of planning for slower business seasons, encouraging them to embrace budgeting as a tool for business resilience and growth.

---

Key Takeaways

1. Adopt the YNAB Method: Assign every dollar a specific job to enhance financial clarity and control.
2. Prioritize Essential Expenses: Focus on immediate and long-term financial obligations before discretionary spending.
3. Plan for Irregular Costs: Allocate funds monthly for less frequent but predictable expenses to avoid financial surprises.
4. Build Financial Resilience: Consistent budgeting provides the flexibility to seize opportunities without incurring debt.
5. Leverage Free Marketing Tools: Utilize social proof and authentic storytelling to build a strong online presence and attract customers organically.
6. Embrace Flexibility: Adapt your budget as circumstances change without viewing reallocations as failures.

---

Resources Mentioned:

• YNAB (You Need a Budget): YNAB.com
• Sugar Cookie Marketing YouTube Channel: Search for "YNAB" for related content
• Cookie Design Lab: Yoursponsorsite.com
• Ramit Sethi's "Money for Couples": Available on YouTube

---

Quotes:

• Heather [03:29]: "It's like the blanket over top of my checking account... it helps you see where your money is allocated without the mental strain."
• Ashley [12:24]: "This helps you prioritize by keeping you on plan and forces you to make trade-offs, ensuring you're always aligned with your financial goals."
• Heather [55:37]: "Your financial budgeting approach is a differentiator because it empowers you to manage your business proactively rather than reactively."

---

Stay Connected:

For more insights and resources, join the Sugar Cookie Marketing Facebook Group and subscribe to the Baking it Down podcast series on your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Heather]

It is the podcast, and we have another guest speaker, of which everyone was a huge fan of Amy. So you got a high torch to hold. Tell us who you are.

[Ashley]

Hi, I'm Ashley. I'm the oldest of the miracle sisters.

[Heather]

Now, before we even jump in, I think you and I are the parents.

[Ashley]

Absolutely.

[Heather]

And then there's Corey, who's a second younger than me, and then Summer, who's our little sister, who's eight years younger than me. So what, 10 years younger than you?

[Ashley]

Absolutely, yes.

[Heather]

How old are you?

[Ashley]

I am almost 30. I'm 38, and she's 29. So we're nine years apart.

[Heather]

So whenever the four of us go anywhere, it'll be me and Ashley, like, letting our kids play at the playground, and then we'll sit on the bench.

[Ashley]

I think you and I share the title of oldest sister.

[Heather]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a mutual thing. So I'll be like, hey, Ashley was reading this book, and she was like, hey, here's some financial advice. And then we'd be like, okay to the other two. Okay. Like, when you need to put money in your piggy bank, this is what you do. So Ashley is filling in for Corey, who I saw on Sunday at the Olive Garden. No surprise there. Doing better, but still hurting, I guess.

[Ashley]

We love and miss you, Corey. I hope you're recovering well.

[Heather]

Cory better be listening to this. And Ashley has got an interesting story. Now she works in marketing, sales. And you have for many years. When did you get into marketing? I worked at finance for a while.

[Ashley]

Yes. So for the last six years, I've worked at a personal finance app, a spending app called ynab. Before that, I worked in marketing at a small local remodeler. And before that, I worked as a pipsqueak at a government contractor. And we did internal marketing to make people aware of the awards and benefit program.

[Heather]

And then you also audited people's resumes to see if they were lying.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

That was what you guys. Which is crazy because they actually caught people lying about master's degrees, and then they would get fired.

[Ashley]

Really sad.

[Heather]

You can't lie on a government contract. So now Ashley has been working for this app. Now I'm going to say it's called you need a budget, but they've now abbreviated to ynab. When Ashley said she was working for wine app, I was like, wow, we don't. As a family, we don't necessarily drink a lot. For her to go join an app about wine, it's very interesting. I could learn something but no, it's an acronym. Y N A B dot com.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Now, since you've been working there for six years, I've started using Wine App personally. And who else uses it in our family? Corey started two days ago.

[Ashley]

I'm so excited. I can't believe that Corey is using it.

[Heather]

That was the. The big thing is that we couldn't get the sisters to do it.

[Ashley]

Yes. And then last two days ago at lunch, Summer said, should I start and try YNAB again? And I said, absolutely.

[Heather]

The parents have spoken. Now, Jenny, our cousin, uses it. Yes, that's it.

[Ashley]

I think so you and J.R. use it?

[Heather]

Yes. Okay. Mom and Dad, I can't even get them to log into their computers without a password. They've used 50 times. So Ashley works for this app called Wine Oven. That's what she wanted to bring today, not a sales pitch on it. Trust me, I pay full price. There's no discount. But to kind of talk about the application of budgeting for a bakery business. Now, she created a script which is very professional, professional sounding and we're going to work through that to talk about how it applies to budgeting for bakery.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Business.

[Ashley]

YNAB is an app, but even more than that, it's all based on a foundation of the method. And you can take this method and if you use pen and paper, if you use a spreadsheet and you can apply it, you can apply it to your personal life. And we're going to talk about it with your bakery business today. And of course, I think everybody should try ynab just because it makes applying the method that much easier. But you can 100% use it however you are currently managing your finances.

[Heather]

So if I signed up for YNAB, I get a certain amount of days free, right?

[Ashley]

34 free days.

[Heather]

And if I have a Edu email, I get a year for free.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

You guys heard that from me first, right? And then if I gave them my affiliate link, we get months for free.

[Ashley]

I think you get, you get a month for free. And they get a month for free.

[Heather]

But they already get the month for free. So really I just benefit. Yes, but they were going to get the month for free anyway. So if anyone wanted to take pity on my ynab. So now I've been using YNAB for probably five years.

[Ashley]

Wow.

[Heather]

Now what I call it, or you can correct me on that, but I'm just telling my common baker friend over here that it's like the blanket over top of my checking account. It's like how I can. So your checking account before, before even checking accounts had buckets or these other things. It was just one lump sum.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

And it's kind of hard to envision where that's allocated to. So let's say if you were like, okay, I run this bakery and I won an Eddie, but I also know I need to pay my vendor fee. And you have, let's say you have $1,000. Your, your brain would say $1,000 for an. Any $1,000 for a vendor fee. And now you got mentally 2000 allocated when you only in reality have a thousand. And this app kind of tells you, no, no, no, it's 500 to 1 and 500 to other. And every month you can keep contributing to these buckets.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Okay. Okay.

[Ashley]

I like the blanket. I have not heard anybody say the blanket before. That's really good. I've heard the bucket analogy. And also if you've ever seen like old fashioned stuffing of cash envelopes, this is a digital version of that where you're not having to carry cash around with you. That could potentially be dangerous. Or if you're like me and lose things all the time. So this is completely digital. And you also don't have the issue in banks when you create buckets of having to move the money around. It's an incredibly flexible system. So what Heather is describing is the YNAB method and that is giving every dollar a job. So it's taking that lump sum where you look at it in your checking account and you're trying to think like, okay, I have this bill coming out next week and do I have money set aside for this coming out? And there's a sale on flower. Can I. That's a lot to keep up with. And also do the actual work of.

[Heather]

Yeah, because you have guaranteed expenses and then you have these pop up expenses and then you have these wants these. I want the Eddie or I want the 3D printer. But I know I have to pay the software fee. That only happens once a year. But I also have to pay for the cookie college. Cause I love it and I'll never leave. Which is billed once a month unless you sign up for the yearly. Right. So this. And you know, now that I have tasted of the sweet nectar of wine I have and I pay full price. It'll be one of those apps where they lower me into the coffin that I budgeted for and that's the only time you'll be able to get it out of my cold, dead hands.

[Ashley]

Do the listeners know about our Saturday.

[Heather]

Lunches tell them, let them into the family.

[Ashley]

Every single Saturday, we. So that's the sisters, me and the twins, and then our youngest sister, Summer, and my mom all get together for lunch.

[Heather]

And.

[Ashley]

And when I wake up on Saturday morning, I think, oh, I'm excited about two things. One, we usually end up going to a Mexican restaurant, and I love chips and salsa and Diet Coke. And then the other thing I'm excited about is hearing the cookie stories. What's the latest in the cookie group? And as an aside to those listening, like, the twins care so much about you all and celebrate your wins and love.

[Heather]

We talk about the cookie people so much. Ashley's actually outlawed it on Saturdays.

[Ashley]

I love to hear the stories.

[Heather]

Ashley, feel like you have 30 minutes to say whatever it is, and then we're going to switch back to talking about Summer's boyfriends. But, yeah, so on Saturdays. So that was a great point. One Saturday, Corey shows up her computer, and she said, I think I'm willing to take a bite into this app. And Ashley was like watching somebody learn how to toddle.

[Ashley]

Well, because I as Corey. So Corey is, like, my biggest connection to baking.

[Heather]

Right.

[Ashley]

And when I look at her and see how much effort and I know that there are people listening who think money is such a drag. I wish I could just get back to the creative part. This is an annoyance or something that I wish maybe if I ignore it, it'll go away. And I just want to do the fun, creative part of this. And my hope for those listening is maybe just planting a seed of, like, money can be more than this chore. You do work so hard for it. You are painstakingly making this icing and doing these decorations and thinking about your packaging and wanting your customer to have this incredible experience. So because you put so much effort into that, the money that you're making, that's a representation of all that work, and it deserves to get as much attention on the back end. So if that could just be my little call to you, all that money doesn't have to be a chore. It can be a way that you show up in the world and build the business that you're hoping to build and engage in your community and build the life for you and your family that you want to build, you're gonna hate me.

[Heather]

Could you speak closer to the mic?

[Ashley]

Absolutely.

[Heather]

But that's a great point, because when people talk about finance in accordance with business and you get that sweat on the back of your neck because, you know, you are not sure, you know, you're not pot. And I see it, like, how much I price this cake? You know, when I ask people, like, how would your mace. How are your main numbers? And they're like, you know, I can see people. Like, I don't know how to find that because I didn't track it. Um, but with this app, you know, every. I do, and I'm not the YNAB poster child, but I do log in twice a month, and I reconcile it. So it's like logging in. I say, yep, these are correct transactions. Here's where they went. So not only can I see where the money went, where it was supposed to go, and then where I overspent, I know exactly. Because now. Now they have a feature called, like, what's it cost to be me?

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

What is. Explain to me what that is.

[Ashley]

So cost to be me is a feature where if you go through all the categories we're talking about. So baking supplies, what are some other things, like hosting fees that somebody would have?

[Heather]

Yeah. All the website and software costs. With canva, we got 3D printers and filaments and, you know, software subscriptions to download cutter, file sels, and there's just a ton of that. Okay.

[Ashley]

So you would put a target on each one of those categories. I want to spend X number of dollars on baking supplies this month. YNAB will take all of those and add up the monthly cost and say, this is your cost to be you. So in my personal life, it's taking my mortgage, it's taking how much I spend on groceries, it's taking how much I spend on clothes, and giving me this number.

[Heather]

What a powerful number, though, when you have that cost to be monthly. Now you understand salary negotiation, bonuses, and what you actually have to make and what is not viable right now.

[Ashley]

Yes. We have one person wrote in this incredibly powerful story that she built out her dream plan.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Ashley]

This is how much I would love. Like, I would love to be able to spend this on myself and donate to this charity and have this much for dining out. And she took that number, and that became her guiding light, and she ended up getting a huge raise. But that reality of knowing, like, this is where I stand today is power to just have that knowledge, and then you get to decide how you want to act on that information.

[Heather]

I think in terms of a baker, it gives you confidence in pricing. Like, you know, as much as I'd love to give you a deal, but I can't make this deal if I don't have this money to run this business. So jumping back to your script which is so nice. Where would you like us to start? We have a lot of cute emojis. We have some breakdown in lines. It is my dream, just little write up.

[Ashley]

Well, I was thinking. So the YNAB method is to give every dollar a job. So that's what we were talking about before of looking in your checking account, seeing that number and giving every dollar a job. And if you've never done that before that can be a huge. There's a lot to think about. So I have a little recipe for bakers. These are five questions that you can ask yourself every time you get paid. So that's whether you sell a custom set, you go to a farmer's market. Every time new money is coming in. These are questions that you can ask yourself. And the first one is tied to that reality that we're trying to get to. And that is what does this money need to do before I get paid again?

[Heather]

I like that. So when I think of that and I'm just going to give one quick breakdown something you said every dollar job means when I log into my ynab there is a ready to spend category which is the budget. Like this money needs to be either allocated to once or to bills. Right? So we have, we're either working into the future of things I'd like to save for or we're handling business. This bill is due this month. The goal of YNAB is that ready to spend becomes zero dollars because every dollar is either allocated to a saving I want to buy an Eddy or I have a bill due this month. I have to pay my cottage bakery insurance. So that that ready to spend number is 0 means that every dollar was given a job. It was assigned to a task, a goal. I want a need a bill. And then every time more money comes in we start with the question again. This money has to be given a job. Every dollar job. Where is that dollar? So Ashley's first question is what does this money need to do before I'm paid again? So tell me that. Break down your own words.

[Ashley]

So this is important for two reasons in my mind. The first is priorities because if you want an Eddie but you know that you need to pay six or seven bills before more money comes in. That helps you prioritize where the dollars you have today. So we're not talking about future dollars, we are talking about the you currently have access to. So that helps you prioritize by really keeping you on plan of this is what this money needs to do before I get paid again. The second reason, when Heather is talking about every single dollar and getting that number all the way down to zero, why that's so important is trade offs. Because once you allocate a dollar. So today you might say, okay, I want this money for bills, this money for some goals. And then tomorrow you might say, okay, I've actually changed my mind. Now there's this new thing. Okay, I want. Because you, all those dollars have jobs. You have to talk to yourself. Is this new thing more important than the money that I have set aside for this other thing? So you are actually having these conversations with yourself on trails.

[Heather]

Sometimes I'll say, and I really. And I know this sounds like a Ynab sales, which this isn't. I do use it all the time, and I really, I'm a huge advocate for it. It is so wild for people to wrap their heads around what it is until they jump in on it. But now that I'm there, I'm like, I don't know that I could live my life without it. That said, so let's say on my first of the month, I like to consolidate, make sure everything's reconciled and assigned. So my dollars have jobs. Now let's say I don't have enough money to cover my goals. Like, let's say I'm saving for some big old purchase, right? And I'm like, okay. But Ynab tracks like, oh, this goal hasn't been met yet. So when you get paid, let's say you get paid. If you get paid, you know, 1st and 15th, you get paid every vendor event or every sale. When you say, okay, here's money incoming, then you can say, okay, here's the goal I want to meet. But like Ashley said, there's bill. If you don't pay your hosting, your website, your website doesn't exist next month. So we're going to handle that one first. We're going to make sure that that line item is budget forward first. And then let's say we do want that 3D printer. I have $10 left. Well, the 3D printer is $300. Well, I'm going to say this month it gets $10. Next month, maybe it get $20 and a YNAB. Lets me see how I can kind of claw my way up there. Now, something I really like about it is you can set goals. You can have Ynab. So if I say, okay, Eddie's $3,000, easy to think. And I say I want him by the end of this year, Ynab's gonna say, okay, it's gonna be 3,000 divided by 12, and that's what your monthly goal is gonna be. And then if you can't meet that goal this month, you can snooze those targets. It's called Now I do like that feature.

[Ashley]

Me too.

[Heather]

And it stops with this bright red sign that says, you didn't meet your goal. So, okay, that's a great one. Like when. When I think of a cottage bakery and what has to be done, you know, they always say, like, food, water, shelter, whatever, that's going to be these things that if they are not operating, I make less money. So website, social media, if you're running ads, that could be. Some people are really big into ads. If you are teaching cookie classes, huge margin there. But you have a venue cost. We've got to get those paid.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Heather]

And then you can have those. What do I wish I could do with this money that isn't allocated yet? And that would be my Eddy thing, or I want to go to Cookie Con next year in June or something.

[Ashley]

Absolutely. So that's the first question. What does this money need to do before I get paid again? The second question. Normally when I talk about the YNAB method, I'm talking about my personal life. And a big truth that I've learned as an adult is that there is no such thing as a normal month. I love, like, I love to set a goal at the beginning of the month of I'm going to go to the gym three times this week. And you have all these things, because in our minds, we imagine these perfect weeks and months. But that's not how life is. So the second question is, what larger or less frequent spending do I need to prepare for now?

[Heather]

I like the historical data of ynab. Ashley chastises my inability. You can restart your budget at any interval you want. I refuse to. My budget's five years old. It's my toddler. And I can see, like, what was March 2023 like for me? What happened that I didn't prepare for? Like, a big one is insurance on my cars is kind of an unpredictable number to me. And if I ever ask the insurance man, like, why did it go up? There's never an answer. It'd just be like, it's the cost of. Cost of life insurance has gone up. So it's like I can say, okay, well, that's what this was last year. Let me increase that for no reason at all and budget for it this year. Because that insurance is such a big kind of random number that comes at you so unexpectedly.

[Ashley]

I remember the first time feeling like, oh, no, is this what it means to be an adult? And in Virginia at least, which I just recently learned, not all have this personal property tax where we pay taxes on our vehicles. And that bill came into the mail, and to me, it was an emergency because I hadn't planned for it. And that was a terrible feeling. And what the YNAB method teaches us is to look ahead at this larger or less frequent spending that we have to do and just set aside a little bit of money every month. So if you think about spending, it can be like a roller coaster of, oh, my word, an emergency. Something happens, your oven breaks.

[Heather]

That's a good one.

[Ashley]

But we know things like that happen. So if we could set aside a little bit of money for maintenance. We're just trying to soothe out the roller coaster. Yeah.

[Heather]

If we could take. If we could take what's a Disney roller coaster. That's the Tower of Terror, and turn it into the teacup ride. You're still spinning around, and it's still a little crazy, but at least you're not feeling your guts rise into the middle of your throat when these unexpected purchases happen. Because the guaranteed thing is that there's unexpected expenses, specifically in business. You know, a great example, Canva tripled its price of its subscription. Like, we went from $30 to $100 per person. I mean, if you're. You're working at margin and you have no budget and everything is just tripping you up, that could absolutely throw someone so much that their cottage bakery could close. And I hate to see that happen. Then you have. The flip side is, like, less frequent purchases is the Vendi Blendy. Now, I always tell people the Vendi Blendy is always on Black Friday. It's always 12 months from the last one. You can say, okay, I want to spend some money. And that's what Ashley and I told Corey the other day. When you allocate money for something like that, it becomes almost free. Spending money like, it's no longer like, oh, I'm spending too much. It's like, this was in my budget allocated 500. I have to spend this. It's only right. So, yeah, that is one of those things. When I think of frequent, larger purchases now are not such a showstopper.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Because, okay, for a great example, I bought that stupid car, right? The tires on a Dash Viper are the widest production tire ever made for a car you could buy from a dealership. Each tire is $550.

[Ashley]

Oh, my goodness.

[Heather]

So you think, well, I'm just gonna get new tires. If you're used to some like, you know, typical four seater, you're looking at, you know, $400 for four. This one I'm looking at over $2,000 for four tires. I haven't had a. I had to buy them, I replaced them for the car. But now I have in my thing in four years I'll replace those tires for $2,500. YNAB, tell me what I need a budget for monthly for four years so that, that I don't even feel it at all.

[Ashley]

That's an amazing feeling.

[Heather]

It's a terrible feeling. Let me tell you what I will say.

[Ashley]

I was telling Heather before we got started that my husband and his dad, so my father in law are on this trip of a lifetime going to.

[Heather]

France to see people.

[Ashley]

The Tour de France. The Tour de France. My father in law is like really big into cycling. So we started saving for this trip nine months ago and it was just a little bit every month building up and now they are being able to like enjoy and be present in the moment and not have to think about the money. Because every dinner, every hotel, it's already, it's already there.

[Heather]

And you know, and I, and I try to tell Corey this and I think it's slowly clicking. It's like a pleasure to know it's already budgeted for because you don't have to wince. You know, you see those dads at Disney and they just record him getting the check and he's just, just astounded that it could cost so much. And I agree that Disney is rather expensive, but like when it's allocated for when you go to CookieCon. Let's pretend. Okay. CookieCon is in June 2026. I think be hot. It's gonna be hot. Not hotter than Virginia it is today, but it's gonna be hot. But we already know the tickets are $400, right? Lodging gonna be liberal here and say $600. So we're $1,000 now. We got food and oh, I want to buy that. Impulse purchases. Let's add another $400. So right now I need $1,400 to have and I didn't even include like traveling. But right now let's pretend I need $1400 and I can have a thought guilt free. Cookie Cod experience. That's so much better than I go down there and I'm like, oh, I don't know if I have the money. Oh, I'm going to put this on My credit card. Oh, I shouldn't be spending this. You know, it really changes how these things feel to buy.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

I would say before I got into personal finance, I wouldn't have said I had money stress. I was the kind of person that would just, like, put my head in the sand.

[Heather]

Ashley's an ostrich. I really am. Not all my sisters are ostriches, but Ashley and Corey are Cory's top ostrich. Ash is second ostrich.

[Ashley]

But I had this belief that I wasn't good at money. I just like to spend. And thankfully, I married somebody who is more responsible than I am. And it'll probably all work out and it'll probably. Probably be fine. But when I really stepped up and took control, it wasn't until that money stress was gone or a lot lower that I realized, like, oh, I did. Even though I want to claim being an ostrich, like, I still was having some of that money stress. So by giving yourself this little bit of breathing room, smoothing out the roller coaster, I think you'll be able to be more creative. You'll be able to show up better in your business. You might have more ideas for your.

[Heather]

Marketing when the desperation isn't the guide and you don't cheapen your prices to make the sale. And like you said, that lady who's like, this is what's gotta be for me to live the life that I want. You price with confidence. You know, I saw, I think, in the cookie college lady named Kia. I think it was cute. She was like, I sent 100% rush fee. The people needed a cake the next morning. And she was like, we were closed. We were done for the day. They were like, is there anything you do? And she was like, it'd be twice the price. And they're like, absolutely, here's my money. And she could confidently say that. Cause she knows her numbers. She has a brick and mortar. So she's definitely into her numbers. But it's like that. No, like, oh, if I don't. If I. I won't charge a rush for you because I really need the money. And we always tell people, like, the people I see that don't want to refund the mistake are people typically have already spent the money and can't afford to refund the mistake.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Heather]

It hurts too much.

[Ashley]

This is perfect, because this goes in exactly to my third question is, what can I set aside for next month's spending? Okay, so this is basically just getting you to the point where you have margin.

[Heather]

I like it.

[Ashley]

I Like this a lot, especially for people who don't have consistent income. And I see in the cookie group a lot that you talk about busy seasons and slow seasons.

[Heather]

This is a wild industry to be in. It's what I call the landscapers industry, where we make hay during the summer and then for them, the winter screeching halt. And then you're trying to be a snowplow guy. For us, this is our slow period. That's why we're running that midsummer membership sale tongue twister. Because come December, November, you know, I think the Eddie group was like, hey, we want to do a meetup. And everyone's like, don't touch December. You'll never see any of us. We haven't seen ourselves. We haven't seen our kids. It's just so busy. And then it goes to the screeching hall back in January. So go on.

[Ashley]

So again, so we just talked about smoothing out spending, the spending roller coaster. What if we could also smooth out your income? So when you have these huge months with a lot of holidays and it's the beginning of school and Thanksgiving, Halloween, all these stuff, and you start just slowly putting a little bit of the money that you make today into your plan for next month. And you get to the point where we call it fully funded on the first. And that is the most incredible feeling where your whole plan, all your little envelopes already have the money all full, and that gives you margin. And I think that goes back to what you're saying about people, the people who are more likely to be able. Able to give the refund or not act in desperation. I recently had dinner with an acquaintance who was leaving a bad work situation. And I was like, oh, no. Everything you hear is that it's such a bad time, you know, to be looking for a job and I are used. And he was so calm and cool, and he said, I have planned for exactly this. And there is something about that attitude. When I would imagine him going into an interview. And it's not desperate because it's a.

[Heather]

Power play because he doesn't need you. I think it's the difference, and I think about this a lot between when you go to an interview, let's pretend we want a day job and we go to the interview and you need it to pay your rent versus I know you need me, employer, because that's why you're hiring. And you come from this position of you need me more than I need you, versus this position of desperation where I need you more than you need me. And the Same with our clients. It's like blood in the water. Sharks can sniff it when they know you need them more than they need to do. Right. So then you're competing on price.

[Ashley]

I feel like we talk about that in some of our local groups where you have, you know, there's a painter or there is this person and they just spam the group and it comes across as a little bit desperate. Whereas if you were just consistent on your social media and you were posting updates to your website and you had these incredible. That will do the selling for you. You're not having to go and try.

[Heather]

To drum up and you become that baker who says, I'm now booking out for. For September. Right? Oh, my good. And I know that some of us are like, how are you booking out for September? I'm struggling to get tomorrow done. And I think it's again, that position of power. The reason why they're able to book for September is they're charging enough per order, they're getting enough orders that they're able to invest in that marketing. That's creating more orders, they're created better branding. Everything about them is like, if I order from them, I know I'm getting my cookies versus this. Like, in the comments, everyone tags everybody else. You know, I was looking, I was reading some random business and I was reading, they're like, nobody's buying for me. And when I went through the page, it was all this, like a guilt trip, like, you guys need to buy from me. It's hard out here and this is my livelihood. Like, wow, you're beating up your audience. You're bullying your own audience because you're not working ahead. You're working as a reactionary thing. So. So what can I set aside for next month's Sunny to explain how that app works? It has this one button. You can highlight all your categories and you can click the button underfunded, which means it's going to take your out. You're ready to assign your. And it's basically like, give every dollar job automatically and then I'll put you in the super red if you don't have the money for it. But I like to see what the devastation would be if I fully fund it. And then you can reverse it and then you can start individually funding the have to haves. Have to have to pays. And then you can say, okay, I want to pay. I want, I want, I want to go to Cookie Con. Okay, what do I have left over? And I can assign it to my Cookie Con budget.

[Ashley]

Okay, let's take your. I think you said Eddie was an example. $3,000, okay? And so you. Let's pretend that you have been consistently setting aside a small amount each month. And today, Eddie says, For the next 12 minutes, we are slashing the price.

[Heather]

Wild, okay?

[Ashley]

And you're like, okay, I want to be. I want to be responsible. I'm not taking money from bills that are due from other goals. But if you have worked so that you are a month or even two months ahead that margin, you can say to yourself, okay, I'm gonna pull back some of that money and spend it right now to take advantage of a crazy deal that you just. If you weren't working ahead and building that margin, you don't. That's not even a question. You would have to think, do I want to go into debt? Do I want to put this on a credit card?

[Heather]

I think you do. The click, close your eyes and buy the. I hope this doesn't hurt too bad. Something else. I have no idea what that thing is, but I want this thing now. That's why, you know, people are like, should I. Eddie has a payment plan, and there's an interest rate. And I'm like, eddie, if you market him, if you. He'll pay for himself, but he'll pay for himself at the $3,000. But now when, let's say, pretend that interest rate puts him at 4,500 with those additional payments, like, wouldn't you have rather spend the $3,000? Wouldn't you have rather waited and purchased him? Well, how. I'd be waiting forever. It's because you don't have a budget. And like, I was listening to ramit this morning.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Ashley put me on to Ramit, saying, I love Ramit. Money for Couples is a show on YouTube. It's free to watch. And he was saying, like, the guy was like, I think I want a car. And he was like, it's a math problem. It's not. I think I want. It's either I can or I cannot. And once you look at your budget, it'll tell you exactly what you can do. And if it's not in the budget this month, it doesn't happen. You don't have to be sad about it, but you can start working for it.

[Ashley]

When I. Even before I started working for Ynab, I used Ynab for about a year, and they offered free workshops. And I remember taking a workshop with one of the teachers named Dave, and he talked about, even if you don't have a car payment right now, Maybe your cars are completely paid off to start paying yourself a car payment and just get into the habit of like, okay, let's say the average car payment is $600. I'm going to start right now, even though I don't have it to one get into the habit. Like, how does it feel to have a $600 extra bill but you start building up this down payment.

[Heather]

Down payment? Yeah.

[Ashley]

So I would almost say like, like, let's set aside maybe 306, whatever for the eddy. And then you are paying. You're paying yourself for it. And then I think it feels so much better to buy something once you.

[Heather]

Taste of the nectar. And I always, you know, I was. I was a big credit card girly in my 20s and people would be like, you just need to cut them up. I'm like, cut them up. I'm. I'm using them to live. Why would I cut up what I need? But once you are able. And the reason why I was putting on credit card, I just didn't know what was coming. You know, you just don't plan for it or you overspent on this thing. Once you reverse that and it's a pain point to. I mean, it's a full stop on having fun. I felt to switch from paying off a credit card to using a debit card, that was such a mental transition for me because I'm like, the credit card is how I function. But it felt like budgeting in post. It felt like, well, I gotta pay my credit card bill. What did I spend? Oh, versus now I'm like, what will I spend? And please understand, Ynab isn't going to punish me for overspending. What it does is like, hey, girl, you went to Virginia beach and that was one too many crab legs than you budgeted for. Where do you want to take from? What do you want to borrow from? Because where do you want to borrow from? From yourself. Because that crab leg was real good. But now you have to pay that bill. So I really do like that. And I really do like to see the breakdown. It has pie charts and like, graphs to say, like. And if you did this for your business, could you imagine the power you'd have to be able to really see a snapshot of what last December looked like? Like, what did I do differently last December to make it look like that versus a December prior? And what will I do this December to really change that up?

[Ashley]

Okay, I'm only saying this because I think maybe you would like this example, the show csi. Okay, Usually Starts with a body.

[Heather]

Yep.

[Ashley]

And the detective all standing around it and trying to figure out what happened. And then what's the Tom Cruise movie where they can see into the future?

[Heather]

Minority Report. Love it. He can see what will be a deadline. And you're saying, why not?

[Ashley]

Instead of paying for an Eddie on credit or with a payment plan, what if I look to the future and know I'm gonna buy that in cash? And I also think it's motivating. Maybe we take on a couple extra orders, maybe we sign up for some corporate accounts to see what it's like doing corporate without the Eddie. But you're more motivated to get that money. And then it's gonna feel so good. Divide in cash.

[Heather]

It's going to feel so freeing because it's not a. Like, it's not a death sentence. And up your package arrives. Right. I hate that feeling. When you order something you know you shouldn't have, you. You're opening the box, you have half joy, half dread. And it's just like, oh, man, I would love to have enjoyed this thoroughly, but I'm half enjoying it because I'm half worried I couldn't have afforded this. And I still bought it. Versus I knew full well I'd budget for that. I reached my budgetary goal and I purchased the thing. Now when the package arrives, sheer joy, Just a peachy keen. I get it, open this. And I did it. And I did it the right way. So I really do like. So that's just to recap one. What does this money need to do before I'm paid again? To me, that sounds like, let's focus on bills with the have to then. Then the. The have to's the second one kind of still goes to have to. What? Maybe be a have to that I'm not absolutely sure about or one that isn't renewed every month.

[Ashley]

Right. Because if I ask you your personal bills, it's really easy for people to come up with, this is my rent. This is my groceries. But they will forget about Christmas that it comes. But just like you said with the Vendee Blendy, it comes around every 12 months.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

That should be built into your regular plan.

[Heather]

That should be. And for example, because I use YNAB personally, I'll put in everybody. And Ashley would hate my ynab. I have everyone's name, and next to them, I have the birth date. And then I have the target set for their birthday and set it on repeat. So by the time I think summer, what up the sister spending to $100. Ashley gives the best gift, so she doesn't want to have it, but so I have it. When Summer's birthday is on February 14, I have $100 allocated. I'll spend that and then March, it'll start. That $100 divided by 12. So it'll allocate the. Is it 12 bucks? No. What's 100 divided by 12? Shoot.

[Ashley]

I always do. Really.

[Heather]

So start that $8.33. So then we have. What can I set aside for next month's money? So the first two are I'm handling this month and I'm handling this year. What might happen. I like those. But number three said, I'm handling the future. So we're making sure that the important things are allocated for. Then we're getting a little, like a little good. And we're going to say, well, let me just make sure next month is. And then this is kind of the more fun one. And kind of what I've been pushing us for. What goals, large or small, do I want to prioritize? And I think that's the Eddie the Cookie Con, the Vendi Blendy. If you want to sign up during the midsummer membership sale, that would be that one.

[Ashley]

In my personal spending plan, one of my favorite, I have two favorite categories. I love a just because. And that is poor Corey having surgery. I didn't know when I, when I built and created this plan that that was happening. But I set aside a little bit of money just because. So then it's like, okay, well, let's get Corey. We all got her, like, a little gift to try to make her. That felt so good to have that. And then my second favorite category is always be learning. I love a course. I love wanting to learn something else. Or Heather saying, we're going to go take a rug Tufting Classic rug Tufting glass. This is our newest thing. But I have a little bit of money set aside. I don't use it every month, but I love to join. Like I'm taking a journaling class or some kind of membership, something like, like the cookie college. So let's start building these wants and these goals into our plan. Now.

[Heather]

I really like how Ashley approached this. There's you have to pay these bills or your business does not survive to see next month. Then there's these. You have to pay these potential bills or your business doesn't survive next year. Then there's. Okay, that's good. What does next month? Can we handle next month now? Because if you have this month budgeted and next month you're invincible. You're. You're by and large far above and like we say, community over competition. But your competition likely isn't doing this. So this is that, like, how do I beat somebody who's been in the market for five years? Amy had said it last year, she's like, they carve out your niche. And I don't think people realize your financial budgeting approach is a differentiator, you know, because. Interesting.

[Ashley]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Heather]

I really think, like when you're not pressured, when you have an oopsie budget, then because Corey's got the oopsie budget, which we built into the budget, and she'll say 100% money back guarantee, no questions asked. If you're not happy about it, I'm not happy about it. Here's your money. That's a differentiator. And it came from a budget.

[Ashley]

Wow.

[Heather]

She doesn't have to think about refunds because it's allocated already.

[Ashley]

Okay, another Corey example for the 4th of July, I ordered from Cori for my mother in law. She was having a party and my mother in law could not get over the car cookie, the thank you cookie.

[Heather]

Oh, great example of that.

[Ashley]

So that is building in. Like, I have a goal to have my customers have the most incredible experience ever. So what I noticed that Corey does the car cookie, the thank you cookie, her there was tool, there was stickers. It. I felt as like the client. I felt like a million bucks carrying that box into the party. So I'm having such a great experience that is going to.

[Heather]

But now Corey's packaging costs are higher than her competitions. But it's not going to throw her because she's already budgeted for that higher cost of packaging. Because. Because that's the differentiator. Right? And then you people who are like, I have the best ingredients ever sold, you got a higher cost of ingredients, you're gonna focus on that. And for you people who are like, I actually am the cheapest baker possible. I like to work barely above margin, you're gonna need the budget even more because you're saying my razor thin margins keeps me competitive. I'm able to get those cheaper orders. But now every dollar has a bigger impact for you guys. And I think all three businesses can thrive. Like I said, the gas station up here, the line is 30 minutes long and it never shorts. But the gas, gas is $0.10 cheaper per gallon. Okay, so now what goals, large or small, do I want to prioritize? She has maybe here, ask yourself what is important? What is an important want? And this is the fun part of a budget, I think.

[Ashley]

I think this is why I think some people are turned off by money and trying to make a plan because it feels restrictive. And this question right here opens you up to money is a possibility. If I make more, if I'm smarter with what I have, I have space to dream.

[Heather]

Yes.

[Ashley]

And to really build my dream baking business.

[Heather]

Now, this is not a Ynab pitch, but actually does work for the app and I do use it. You guys know I'm really big into Excel and you may be saying I could do all this in Excel and you can. The one thing I think Excel doesn't excel on is dreaming. I think it is a great thing to calculate numbers and percentages. And, you know, here's my pie chart, here's what I have, here's what I allocate. But I can't really, like, easily add dreams to Excel. But in Ynab, because of how it works, both past and present and future, I feel like I can have a. Well, here's Eddie. How much does he cost? $3,000. What if I, what if I did want him for Christmas? What would I. Would I need be saving? Okay, well, that's a little too aggressive. So let me move him to a mid March gift to myself. Right. What would I need to then? And Ynab's like, oh, you moved that target date. Yeah, girl, you funded for this month. We'll lessen what you owe us each month allocated towards this thing. So what are your dreams? I think you like to travel.

[Ashley]

I love, I love traveling.

[Heather]

Ashley's a traveling sister.

[Ashley]

I love, I would say I probably spend the most on. I love makeup and skincare.

[Heather]

She does love makeup and skincare.

[Ashley]

So, like, that's a important thing. And what I think is so cool about talking to different people and talking about money is when we get to this question of the goals and the fun, that's when you really get to.

[Heather]

Learn about people's personality, what everyone's dreams are. We, me, Summer and Ash and I invite Corey and she don't want to go on Saturday went to season 52. No surprise there. And you know, it's this question. I always say if you ask this question to people, it's a really interesting answer. When was the last time you fell? Because it will say a lot about the person, right? Because you fought. I fell when I was hiking up a Mount Everest. Like, oh, you're an action packed person. But Summer wiped out. There was a slick spot in the bathroom and she said, I've never fallen on all fours. You know, full, full. What do they call it? They call it yard sale when you fall because everything falls off of you. So it's a full yard sale. Scorpion, she said and that some lady walked in and someone was like it almost needed her to walk in because I had to stand up quickly. I wanted to to sit on the floor and cry. So that's kind of thing where if you ask somebody last time they fell, you'll learn a lot about them. But if you ask what's something your budget is dreaming of, you'll see a lot about where kind of their priorities are.

[Ashley]

I think if you are going to be successful long term with managing your money that your plan should reflect you. I should be able to look at it and learn something about you. And that's what makes it sustainable. When you were talking about switching from a credit card to a debit card and like this is where all the fun goes out. A lot of people that we work with have a lot of debt. And I had debt coming in to Ynab and you know, there are some methods where it is going scorched earth. I am, I'm going to be miserable for years.

[Heather]

I did try that approach first. It was miserable.

[Ashley]

For some people it works. But some people are truly in, you know, talking about like a student loan debt where they you want to be.

[Heather]

You're looking for decades.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

No, like let's build in, let's be, let's be aggressive. Let's pay it off. But like let's build in, let's breathe some fun. Like you still for it to be something that you want to keep up with.

[Heather]

When I did fitness competitions, far cry from where I am today. But the guy, personal trainer, he would say every Friday after 5pm there's no rules.

[Ashley]

Wow.

[Heather]

He said eat as much and whatever you want. Because he was like, at the end of the day, you can only consume so much food before you're full. So he's like, I'm not really worried about that. But if you don't have that built in, you will not stick with this plan. So it's like you have to have the enjoyment. You know, granted it can't be the whole week of eating whatever I want. But you have. But man, I would look at Friday and I'd be like, go to Wegmans. I'd be like, I'm getting this and I'm going to save you to Friday. I can't say that I was super honest. Maybe I saved them for Thursday, but Yeah, I think having those little respites. And granted, we're talking about business budgeting, but same thing, when your business is super lean and you're just getting started, and you see all these people with these things, they're like, what? I wouldn't. I can't believe I never used a projector. And you're like, well, shoot, I don't have a projector money. But you could, because the projector is. Let's say it's 150. Or let's say you find someone used and I'm a refurbished girly through and through. I love refurbished things. And you find one at a discount and you've budged it for it. What a fun purchase. And then you can start saying, well, I'd love to go to CookieCon, maybe not next year, but maybe the year after that. You can start budgeting for that now you get that oopsie budget. Now you're really working in a different kind of strategy. You're working in front of your business, not behind your business. Like Ashley said, you're not CSI seeing the dead body and asking how it died. You're Tom Cruise proactive. You're looking into the future and saying, okay. And that's the whole thing about Minority Report is I'm looking to the future to mitigate the dead body. So you can stop the dead body.

[Ashley]

One example falls apart after Tom Cruise is in it.

[Heather]

It is fine.

[Ashley]

Okay, so my last question, and we've kind of touched on this throughout, but it is, what changes do I need to make, if any? And when I was in my twenties, I had tried true traditional budgets, where you make this plan at the beginning of the month.

[Heather]

Month.

[Ashley]

And we talked about it, but no month is a normal month. So I would say I'm only going to spend $250 on XYZ this month. And the first time I went over that amount, I think I failed.

[Heather]

It makes you now want to open this? Yeah.

[Ashley]

So this is a wash. Maybe I'll try again next month.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Ashley]

The YNAB method says something changed. You got new information, something came up. No big deal. Let's just take a pause, let's reallocate. We can move money around if needed. Nobody fails. We just got new information and we're making new choices. So I think yesterday or the day before, I saw somebody in the cookie group talking about shipping was so much more than they were expecting for these. Cut me. It was custom boxes that they were ordering.

[Heather]

Oh, yes. It was $200 for the boxes and $200 for shipping.

[Ashley]

But let's say she, let's say there was no other option she had to place that order, that she didn't know about that when she made her plan or what she expected to spend this month. So she got new information. Let's move some money around to try to cover that shipping cost again. That goes back to having margin, why it's so powerful. If she had a little bit of money into next month, pull it back, pay that shipping cost. So asking yourself, what changed? And it can be like a kind of, I think, go ahead.

[Heather]

A great example of what this is. Okay, pretend you, you buy it in. You give me a free month of wine now because you feel bad because you knew you ought to get a free month if you signed up anyways. And you say, okay, this is great. I built it out. And there's a bit of learning curve there. I don't think it's the most intuitive thing, but once you get it, it just clicks.

[Ashley]

Ynab, you're not only learning a new app, you're also learning new methodology. So you guys are already ahead of the curve because we're talking.

[Heather]

Actually, a couple years ago, Ashley's co worker Ben wrote a song for us and did a Facebook live about it, which you can find on our YouTube channel, Sugar Cookie Marketing, and then search YNAB, I think is the acronym. But okay, here's a great example. We have our budget, we have our monthly cost. Well, ordering cookie cutters is a cost. So you're going to say my, you know, Amy was an like a not typical. She made three orders for cookie cutters last year. But let's say you're a big cookie cutter order, which a lot of us are, and you say, okay, my budget per month is $50 in ordering cookie cutters. Well, with the cost of fees, you're looking about three cookie cutters. @ that price, maybe you got a deal. Maybe you stack some codes or whatever. But let's say three $50. Well, a bamboo A1 mini printer when it goes on sale is $200. But the cost of printing a cutter is so much smaller there. So we can say, okay, I'm looking at $50 per month. It's $50 here. How many, how much does buying an A1 mini, let's say I'm going to save for that. Then I'm going to be able to switch my cutter ordering allocation over to my STL subscription allocation and I can stop with the ordering cutters that are getting eaten by my shipping costs. And instead I Can do a digital delivery and then print them downstairs. And that's one of those ones where you're like, okay, here's what, here's what my current, my current setup looks like. Where can I optimize? A lot of times, and I do like Ynab because it keeps me honest on subscriptions. I can say like, I'm not using that for that cost. My cost per use on that app is not high enough for me to warrant buying it. And a lot of times it gives me like I got this eyebrow growth serum and I'm like, cool, I don't need that every month. So I go back in and I adjust it to every 12 weeks, which saves me more money. I don't have a bunch of bottles of stuff expiring. And then I'm able to still have great eyebrows.

[Ashley]

Love it.

[Heather]

Yeah. So as you have some questions here, let's go through them.

[Ashley]

Okay. These are my questions for Heather.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Ashley]

What's a recent purchase that felt worth every penny? And this can be personal or business?

[Heather]

For the business one. I usually typically make WordPress websites, so we had sugarcookiemarketing.com as a WordPress website. But the cookie college was a Podia platform which is a subscription where we can sell those memberships.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Heather]

And I said to Corey, the disjointedness of the two brands across those bothers me a lot. So what if we look at the cost analysis of how much WordPress plus the plugins is actually costing us and if it's more than moving over to Podia, let's move sugar cookie marketing to podiatry. And we did. And I'm really happy with how similar those websites are now laid out.

[Ashley]

Oh. Because when I was trying to do some research for things to talk about, I went to your website. I was like, wow, this looks so good. I can't remember the lighting on that. It looks really sharp.

[Heather]

So now what I'm able to do technically with the sugar cookie marketing website because now it has that built in subscription backend is I can say here's sign up for email list and get a free email drip campaign of whatever I want. I still building that part out. Yeah. So now it's like very. I was able to look at the cost. WordPress is great until you really look at the recurring cost at scale.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Heather]

And then things get pretty expensive when you buy bundles. Like when I said, Corey, like the more we. And I love WordPress and I hate it, but the more we pare it down from it, the more options we have reinvesting that money in something that might be faster loading, which means better conversions, which means shorter funnels. So that's what I did.

[Ashley]

Okay. I love it. Okay, question number two. If you had $500 to spend only on your business's vibe, so this is aesthetic packaging, brand experience, what would you do?

[Heather]

$500. Here's the thing, you know, in my mind and Ashley Ynab, the app she worked for, they had this big event for fans Ynab Fans club. Ashley brought me a bunch of merch back and I was like, you know, you don't realize the economies of scale until you need to make a merch bag. And then you're like, wow. One, this one $2 trinket that people would likely throw away times 500 is just thousands of dollars and nobody would want this thing. You know, if it's a pen, you always get those pens and stuff. So in my perfect world, I would love for people who sign up for the cookie college, you get a merch bag, it's just financially unfeasible. So maybe probably investing. That'd be cool. A digital merch bag. So there's one investment, but there's a long term payoff. That'd be a neat idea.

[Ashley]

That is a good idea.

[Heather]

I'll think about that.

[Ashley]

Good answer. Okay. If you could permanently outsource one part of your business, no matter what the cost, what would it be?

[Heather]

Permanently outsource one. I think it would be great when people. I'm just talking about the sugar cookie college thing. I think it would be great when people leave to have an exit interview. That would be a tremendous amount of work for me to do right now. But I think it would be cool to have like a customer service person assigned for when people onboard to have direct questions to and when they off board to like have. I think that would kind of add to the experience of people's membership. That would be what I would do.

[Ashley]

That's very cool. That's what we did when I worked at the remodeling company. I love to read those. I always felt like you learned even with the critical ones, like, you still. You learned so much, really.

[Heather]

And that's. How could you imagine if a baker. That's a thing. That was bakers. It's always this conundrum and you tell me what your thoughts are. Do I reach out to the client? They didn't tell me if they liked it or not, but I'm like, if you ask them on their opinion, they'll typically have one. Are you ready? Because if you want the praise and worship session, which who doesn't, that's wonderful. But what if they're not happy? What's your plan of attack then? You know, but imagine if you implemented. Not every opinion is meant to, like, completely restructure a company. Would you imagine the competitive edge you'd have?

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

If you really said, wow, I see this as a weak point SWOT analysis of sorts.

[Ashley]

That's interesting. I get my nails done once every four or five weeks and they send a text, just an automated text. And it said, please, if you loved your experience, please rate us. Here's the link. If you are not happy, please call. And we would love to make it right. I've always been happy, so I've never had to make that call. But they were trying to get ahead of me.

[Heather]

Yeah. Somebody had asked me and they were like, I got an email from this company, larger company, and when I. And it said, how would you rate your experience? And when I said five stars, it took me to Google. But when I said one stars, it took me to their email address.

[Ashley]

Whoa.

[Heather]

And I said, yeah, it's how they get in front of those very starting. Yeah, it's interesting. Customer feedback is fascinating because you'd like to be something for everybody, but then that would be disillusioned to your core values or whatever. But at the same time, that feedback is really powerful. Powerful. Ashley put me onto her hair salon lady. They do not have online booking.

[Ashley]

It's their one big drawback.

[Heather]

Yeah. I said, ash, like, I wish they'd ask me because I would be like, if I could just book online, not have to call, that would be wonderful. I said, but their service is good enough that I'm willing to do that. But I said, we even both agreed they'd be a powerhouse in their space if they had the online booking.

[Ashley]

Which is funny because they're. I feel like they're only. They're savvy. They're showing up on social media every day. Their salon is beautiful.

[Heather]

My Botox lady makes more money off me because I can click of a button, change my schedule, and if I raise an eyebrow and I see that eyebrow raised, you best believe I'm going to move that schedule up. And I even apologize to her. I said, do you hate them constantly kind of moving around? She's like, heather, this is. It's open because I'm available, so love it. And it's that thing we talked about, the shorter funnel versus that longer funnel. And that salon has a longer funnel. I had to reschedule it and I dreaded having to reschedule to give them my money because I just didn't want to talk.

[Ashley]

Even the last time when I was checking out, I made my next two appointments.

[Heather]

Oh you can do shoot shoot.

[Ashley]

Sounds like I just don't want to have to deal with it. Okay, last question. We've talked a lot about spending money but I would love to know what's your best free marketing move honestly and.

[Heather]

This is going to sound like a shameless plug, but it's a free shameless plug. So how shameless could it be? The we have been running this group for five years. Ashley's lived every minute of it and we've had so many bakers teach Facebook livestream does not mean what we always say is it doesn't mean you're the best. It just means you've done something we haven't. Tell us how you did it, what you wish you didn't do, what you wish you did better. There's over 150 of those on the Facebook the Sugar Cookie Marketing YouTube channel. That's easy listening while you're decorating to just let those play in the background. I think to draw an 150 experiences of other bakers is the best free marketing move in terms of what you're so we have a bunch of ones on vendor shows. Listen to that. We have a bunch of ones on cookie classes. Listen to that. As far as like absolutely free stuff, I'm going to say that the fact that AI is free right now, I don't believe it'll be free forever. It's just such a high cost. It's like one of those ones that introductory to market get us all used to it. Every Gmail subscription I have has increased tremendously because of the AI integration.

[Ashley]

Oh wow.

[Heather]

It's free to start. They get you used to it. You seem to like it. So using that AI not liberally, conservatively to to I heard someone say tell AI your thoughts and say critique me as if you were somebody who is finding the loopholes in my plan.

[Ashley]

Right.

[Heather]

And because you don't want the using that AI just to tell you right is a rough go at it. Right. Because we don't want everyone just to tell us echo chamber. But using AI to tell you you're wrong and to look at the the AI blind spot I think would be an interesting idea. Free also.

[Ashley]

I'll ask myself the same question. But going back to getting the reviews I see how hard people bakers are working to get reviews because the Happy customers are off living their lives and they enjoy the cookies and now they're on to the next thing and they aren't thinking, I should go leave a review. So when you get one, use that, use that, use that.

[Heather]

Tell us how you you're almost we can imper into our customer base with you. Like as a customer, how would you want to see a baker tell you they got a good review?

[Ashley]

I think even if I'm not meticulously, if I'm making a purchasing decision and I'm not meticulously reading every single review, I love to scroll on a website and just kind of see a banner of okay, there's actual humans. Other people in my neighborhood are using this baker. They liked them enough to leave them review. That makes me feel really good. And even if I'm thinking about not wanting to spam on social media, let's say you created this incredible set and you want to post it and so you have like your blurb that's like your main part of the post. I would underneath of it a couple little dashes, five yellow star emojis and just add in a really solid customer quote and it just feels I'm just like, as I'm scrolling, I'm like beautiful cookies. Maybe I'm not even reading your meticulously.

[Heather]

Written, you know, we're all skimping our own right?

[Ashley]

But I'm seeing those emojis and I'm like, oh, noted. Like that's really good because that's how I found the hair lady that somebody had posted her and said it had a good review. So we, we want social proof and I think it's so hard to get those reviews. Don't be scared to use the same review again and again people seeing it the first time.

[Heather]

Now a question for you. I'm going to ask AI to come up with some questions for you to say which one of us is more like to. But while I say that, can you walk us through why you purchased from your nail artist? Now here's the thing about Ash. She's the best gift giver. She doesn't, she's not going to find you. Someone says she's going to get you the best. She saw it on TikTok, it's trending, it's nice. And you're so, you're like, I would like quality over price savings. That's you. You're not a Costco girl, you're an anthropology girl.

[Ashley]

Okay, I like Costco too.

[Heather]

We don't like Costco. Cory and I are going to get a membership so we can get the pizzas.

[Ashley]

Why have a membership? We should go.

[Heather]

Shoot. Okay, so, but, but okay, your nail lady, what's the average ticket? We live in a high cost of living area. It's very crowded and Ashley's not cheap.

[Ashley]

So after tip, it's 100, 120.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Ashley]

For just basic.

[Heather]

And how long does it last?

[Ashley]

I mean, even at four weeks, it still looks perfect. It's just the grow out.

[Heather]

And Ashley's actually not the design this time, but typically she's getting little designs on it.

[Ashley]

She really, my lady is very good at that.

[Heather]

And as she's literally saying, here's what I saw on the Internet, I want you to make this right. So it's not like the lady's like, here, pick from my preset designs. You're saying, I want this design. Now tell us how you found her, what convinced you and then what made you come back?

[Ashley]

I think I was scrolling on TikTok and I saw somebody mention a Russian manicure. And this person was not local to me. It was just talking about what's the difference between all these different types? And I was not somebody. I did my own nails and I think I felt a little bit overwhelmed. I didn't know what gel, I didn't know what hard lay, I didn't know all these words. So then I went to my favorite place on the Internet, Reddit, and I went to the, the Nova subreddit. So that's our area, Northern Virginia. And I just typed in Russian manicure.

[Heather]

I was like, you don't post a Reddit?

[Ashley]

No, I've never, I've never posted a Reddit in my life. But again, to be honest, like, that's another. Reddit is a huge form of social proof because it's.

[Heather]

Or you don't know who's writing that. You can kind of tell when it's like astroturfing and people are bragging about themselves anonymously. Reddit's anonymous website.

[Ashley]

So then I went, somebody in the Nova subreddit was asking about Russian manicures. My nail place, which is Shape of Nails and Rest and was recommended. So I went to their Instagram account. So that is like a little customer journey.

[Heather]

You see Ashley's customer journey. You are going. You're ping ponging.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Okay, keep going.

[Ashley]

So I didn't go to their website. Maybe I did land, but it was very, it was really basic and it was just booking. I wanted to see tagged pictures. That's when I go into photography.

[Heather]

Go on, keep going.

[Ashley]

So I'm going on to their Instagram, skimming theirs, but really looking at tagged pictures because I want to see an average girl like me taking a picture of her nails. Is she happy? How do they look? I would probably do the same. If I didn't have my built in baker with Corey and I wanted cookies, I would be searching.

[Heather]

I see you absolutely do.

[Ashley]

In a Facebook group, a local Facebook group in the Nova subreddit.

[Heather]

The interesting thing though is you're not making. I've never. Ashley and I, are we even friends on Facebook? I don't think you really use Facebook.

[Ashley]

I feel like you're like a celebrity on Facebook and I just have to follow you.

[Heather]

But Ashley, I never see you post. Ashley actually goes to threads that have been posted and I'm gonna guess in the last couple six months and you read the comment sections. So for you bakers, you're like, everyone's tagged here. I'm not going to tag myself. You're missing out on these lurker types.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

And that's where those comments and I know if I know you are like me, you're looking for the comment that has a lot of reactions. That and if somebody's bragging is recommending themselves pictures and the person sounds approachable.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

And I think that goes a long way because you can tell when somebody is asked to recommend somebody else. Right. We can all see through immediately. Yeah. But when somebody's like, hey, listen, it's me, like. And Corey knows I have an issue with this. When people do third party tagging themselves like, Heather Miracle can do it. Like, as if I'm not Heather Miracle who can do it. I'll be like, hey, I'm Heather, I can do it. And here's why. And here, you know, I'm going to tag a couple of my clients if they're willing. They friend me on Facebook. Obviously they're biased. But from the mouth of babe, could you imagine how impactful that would be for somebody like Ashley who lurks in post threads and never posts himself? Okay, Ashley is really big in AI. Let me ask you those questions back to you. Oh, and then we'll go back to these AI questions. What is a recent purchase you felt.

[Ashley]

Was worth every penny before I. So I do travel. Not a ton, but like one big trip a year that save up for. And then with work, we've had these fan fests, so these kind of shorter trips. I'm an overpacker to my core.

[Heather]

You are. We even say Ashley two weeks before a trip. You don't know she's here anymore.

[Ashley]

I like all my little things and I like to bring them with me.

[Heather]

That was one thing you were working on is that that disappearance you do two weeks before a trip to prep is shortened down to one week.

[Ashley]

But something that I struggle with is opening suitcases in these tinier. Like if you're traveling overseas and you're in these little hotel rooms and you're having these big clamshell giant suitcases, it's hard to open them.

[Heather]

Did you get that suitcase that comes with the up thing?

[Ashley]

It's. It's like. I think they call it a. What do they call it? It just opens on the top and it's. It's almost an old fashioned form. So I unzip the top and then I just pull everything out.

[Heather]

Oh, that's neat.

[Ashley]

So the brand is l'. Jelle. It's I think Japanese.

[Heather]

I think I would have slotted that if I said it myself.

[Ashley]

I don't know if I said it right. I said it with a lot of confidence here first. But that has been. So I've taken that on every trip and I just bought one size to see if I liked it. I liked it so much that now I'm considering buying a smaller size of it.

[Heather]

Oh. Because the small guy is good for those. Like quick trips.

[Ashley]

Quick trips. Like if I want to just carry on.

[Heather]

Yeah. Okay. If you have $500 to spend on. Do you have five? Could you spend $500 on. Why not? Business buy.

[Ashley]

Well, if I'm. Let me answer this. As I was a small business and a baker, I think going above and beyond for somebody who was my dream client.

[Heather]

Now here's this interesting thing that this app does that actually works for it. They're all remote. All the employees are remote and they gather once a year. Have you had your gathering?

[Ashley]

It's every other year. So no.

[Heather]

Yeah. And they have this customer delight officer and this person lurks. There's these groups about this app because it's pretty popular and then there's a lot of, you know, customer support there and they'll find somebody like. Wasn't the example the people who met on the plane?

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Can you tell us a story?

[Ashley]

So was that. Was that one of our stories or was that just an example? I'll tell you a more recent one. Somebody reached their 10 year YNAB anniversary and they did a funny post. We have a fans led Facebook group. So we have nothing to do with it. We just pop in when they need questions asked. But it's a great place to, like, see our customers in action. Do you want me to post?

[Heather]

That is ridiculous. No, we're gonna wait. Okay. Are you done? Okay. That's wild. That they could just put.

[Ashley]

Okay, so someone posted that they were so excited about their anniversary and that if this was like a true relationship, that they would have expected an edible arrangement.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Ashley]

Hehe posted. Moved on. But our delight person, who that's her sole job is to look for delight opportunities, got their information and sent big balloons that said 10 and sent an edible arrangement. So I think if you could, you know that you have this one customer who recommends you, who pays on time, who lets you have creativity over the designs and is just a perfect customer.

[Heather]

Clearly, as she's been listening to us.

[Ashley]

Go ahead, listen. On Saturday, you see her in maybe one of your local groups and I have got to.

[Heather]

You have got to be kidding me. Okay, that brother's printer, if you want.

[Ashley]

The $500 turn off, we're going to outsource the printer. That's ridiculous.

[Heather]

Okay, go on.

[Ashley]

You see her post something in another group just looking for ways to delight and going above and beyond. Maybe the person, maybe you have a great customer who places an order. And like Corey, with my example for 4th of July, not only did she do what I asked of her, she also did some extra simple cookies that were perfect for the kids at the party so that the adults got like the more custom ones like that. That to me, if I wasn't her sister, she would have a customer for life. So taking that $500 and looking for ways to delight your customers.

[Heather]

There is a lady local. Local to you and you actually met her. I ordered a cake and she dropped it off at your house. Lucy Q's.

[Ashley]

Those cakes were incredible.

[Heather]

Crazy. Her ability to make things that aren't supposed to be cake into cake. But she does this interesting thing. She's on Facebook more than I could ever be. So she's in that Nova foodies group. And when there's somebody who's like, I ordered this cake and I didn't really like it, or I had this bad experience at a bakery or my plans fell through and she'll offer to make the cake for free. And that's loss, right? Because she's making the cake for free. But the amount of social currency she generates by always being willing to. And I know, you know, cake people, it's harder. But cookie people, you can have your frozen blanks in there, print them off with Eddie or do a custom little piping job on them. And really, truly delight somebody at the zero dollars made. But that long term currency because everyone recommends Lucy Q's when you have a last minute order because they know that she can assist.

[Ashley]

Great example.

[Heather]

Like that example. Okay, what's your best free marketing move?

[Ashley]

I would say the social proof 100%. And then I think storytelling.

[Heather]

Okay. Ashley talked to me and now it's a book that you keep. I bought it and I started. It's called Storytelling Story brand. Story brand.

[Ashley]

There's all. I mean I have so many books but it really just comes down to that there is something in humans that just love a story connect and the more descriptive. So if I was baking cookies tomorrow, if I was going to say this is my new thing, I think that's what I would do. I would start, I would get an overhead, start decorating and tell stories and have that be. People just love that. So I think more than step one.

[Heather]

Step two, Corey Ashley is the reason why Corey got on the podcast and told her cancer story. Because it had been a long Saturday conversation of Corey saying, well, it feels weird to let people into something so personally odd like you know, we're talking about bakery, not surgery. But then Ashley was like, but this is you and people would you say and all your videos on TikTok end with and I'm obsessed. And this is the one thing you're not obsessed with. And I think more people would be interested and really to report back. Yeah, people really showed up.

[Ashley]

I mean the comments and the love and the support that Corey also Ashley.

[Heather]

Lurks in the sugar cookie market.

[Ashley]

Absolutely. I got in there and I really quiet.

[Heather]

They turned us into AI. Kim and Heather did. And you know what I want to say to you, AI, I already thought I had a lot of teeth, but you took teeth from Corey and put them in my face. There was more teeth than teeth should teeth. Yeah. Ashley will screenshot it immediately. I'll be like, she'll be in my sisters and my mom's Snapchat group saying, look at this or I can't believe this or did you guys delete this? So.

[Ashley]

Yeah, I think going back to what we were talking about, posting yourself or posting too much in community groups. I think when you're genuine, it's that.

[Heather]

Genuine aspect of it, which is vulnerability.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

Which Ashley and I talk about a lot as our kids frolic about them all and kind of letting people into a place that could be injured. Like they always say it's hard to be vulnerable because likely that shielding is there for a reason. But nobody Ever gets to know the real you.

[Ashley]

And I think because I've done the Corey, and I'm obsessed, and that is a cute, but a little way to, like, keep people out because it's hard to show up. And. And I know you're thinking, I got into this business because I love baking, and now I'm having to get on social media and be an entertainer. And it is cringe. But what do they say? Like, you have to get through the cringe.

[Heather]

Like we're just saying on Saturday we were walking into the mall that the stupider you sound, you sound to yourself. The actually more entertaining, the better it comes across in video. Ashley and I used to do some video work for her. And you were pretty good at presenting, but when you had the clients on there, it was like Ashley would have to pick up her own energy to pick them off the ground. And, you know, it feels dumb at the time, and it edits very well. And now you used to do YouTube as a hobby, back when YouTube was kind of getting.

[Ashley]

Back in the day, like 2013. You were actually my outsource. You're the answer to that outsourcing question of what I didn't want to have to do. I don't want to deal with all the tech. So I would have Heather come, please. And I know what I do, but, I mean, storytelling. The better you are at communicating. If I was going to sign people up, like, I've taken so many courses. The best one, and if you just want to get a taste of it, is called Ultra Speaking.

[Heather]

Okay?

[Ashley]

They have a YouTube channel. It is all about. We talk about this all the time. Life is about connections. And the better you are at communicating, the better you are being genuine and vulnerable, the deeper your connections are.

[Heather]

And it's just that. And when we're in the world where everyone feels like they can say whatever they want on the Internet and feel no repercussions, they're gonna say the one thing they're gonna say, heather, you have a lot of teeth. And they're not wrong. But, you know, you're like, I'm so worried that if I put myself out there, someone will step on that one button. But what you're gonna find is that 99% of people will show up the way you wanted to. And then you just disregard that one.

[Ashley]

Which is easier said than done. Because I can think I'll be falling.

[Heather]

Asleep saying, wow, I can't believe they said that to me.

[Ashley]

Because I can think of, you know, back YouTube, you have, like, 99. I mean, I still think I can list out the mean comments.

[Heather]

Isn't that crazy?

[Ashley]

And I wish there was a magic pill that we could all take.

[Heather]

You can't, because they're like, this one I'll be taking to my grave. Did I skip that question? What you would outsource?

[Ashley]

Yeah, but I came back around to it.

[Heather]

What would you outsource today? Same stuff.

[Ashley]

I mean, I love the creative part, so anything that frees me up to do the creative part, then. Yeah. So like, Heather with the technical stuff, or like, if I was doing ads, having a media buyer who handles that part of it and just lets me do the creative part.

[Heather]

Yeah. And you have that kind of team. You have the guy who does the graphics. You say, here's kind of what I. And I was telling them that you're the sister who uses AI to get a general mock up, and then you'll give it over to the graphic design people and they'll turn it into kind of what you want Sometimes.

[Ashley]

I'm not a graphic designer. I'm not an artist, and I have these ideas, and I don't always know with words how to describe it. So I'll do a little bit with AI, come up with. And I'm like, I know this is terrible, but this is what my mind. And they're like, okay. And then they take it, make it their own, make it so much better.

[Heather]

And I was telling them, like, AI relying on it heavily. Like, the only thing. I don't know if that's the right answer right now. Maybe it will be. But using it as the jump point of the starting point or the script, the draft one, and then making it into the draft two, that becomes the production. Yes.

[Ashley]

And I think this will be my last thing about storytelling. But. But with more and more people using AI and things like this concern about everything sounds the same, everybody. You own your own story.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

So.

[Heather]

And you own your own tonality and your own way of talking and the way of writing. Jenny Snapchat at me this morning. She had called yesterday and gotten into a spat with the team on this rule. She helps do code enforcement for hospitals. And they were talking about. About something specific, whether or not it was a law or not. And Jenny said, it is. Of course. This lady said, you're wrong. Jenny calls code enforcement, and they're like, no, it is. And so she writes back an email and said, hey, just want to copy everyone on whatever. And then she was like, this morning, she was like, look at this. They got AI to write back to me. And Jen was like, I don't want to spend my whole day writing emails to AI. Although Jen uses AI as well.

[Ashley]

So.

[Heather]

Okay, there's one thing you could whisper to every baker. Who cares what it is? What would you whisper to them? And they all had to hear. It can only be a sentence.

[Ashley]

It's not about you.

[Heather]

Oh, that's a great one. Explain it. Expound.

[Ashley]

I think and I, I know because I'm creative and I have these ideas and you know, I make this video and I'm so proud of it. And I can see the same with, with bakers and making these incredible cookies and I think we get. Sometimes there is artistry and that's so fun and we have to like want that for ourselves. But at the end of the day it's the customer.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

At the end of the day for me it's if a piece of content flops, I can't, I can't let it derail my whole day.

[Heather]

That is what Ashley be like. Man, I spent a long time because you did TikTok content creation and you really tested some interesting content bugs. It's between organizing your pantry to just having your cat's foot walk through something to talking and explaining stuff. And it was really interesting to see because you're like, wow, it seems like what I spent forever on nobody cared about and my cat's foot was just popping off.

[Ashley]

So.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

So if I could just say yes. I think we all need hobbies outside of the thing we make money on.

[Heather]

Because they say don't move to where you vacation because then it's going to turn into housemates.

[Ashley]

And I think it's. That's especially hard for people with creative jobs.

[Heather]

I know because you're like, I'm already. If I do this creative thing over here, I make money. So Corey got into painting rocks and we were like, that's weird. But it makes sense because she's not going to sell this thing. She's actually in. There's a, there's a trend here where you leave painted rocks in people's yard and they post about in a group. So she wish she took them and she left them in people's yard. And then. Yeah, then you show supposed to bottom of that group. Okay, moving here. Here's some AI questions.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Heather]

On I said, hey, I'm interviewing my older sister and I want her to answer some. Who is more likely two questions about me and my twin. Okay, can you come up with 10 interesting. Okay, so I haven't read these. Who is more likely to spontaneously plan A last minute adventure. You. I'm the driver. But I've tagged along with you guys.

[Ashley]

That's funny because Summer and I were talking yesterday about wanting to do something and we looked at each other and we're like, well, Heather will drive us.

[Heather]

Yeah, I'm really, I'm never gonna say no to a plan, but Corey is the one who drug us to, to Maryland.

[Ashley]

That's true. Sometimes I think of Corey like she's home home. She's working, she's baking cookies, you know. Yeah.

[Heather]

But yeah, sometimes can I say she's a last minute adventurer. Not by definition. That will never enter email signature. But every once in a while she'll get these wild hares.

[Ashley]

And that was so fun going to Maryland to that bakery. So it was a great.

[Heather]

Really Munch the cat, the Nashville thing. Corey.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Heather]

Yeah. Okay. Who's more likely to remember everyone's birthday and thoughtful gift? Not Cory. You wanted to say that one.

[Ashley]

I think if we shared the oldest sister title. I think Heather took all the organization.

[Heather]

And actually took all the thoughtful gift giving.

[Ashley]

I. I dream of having Heather's level of calendars. And she had one day. I'm gonna get you to make one for me. She has this lifetimeline. Cause I, I can never remember. Like, when did I do YouTube?

[Heather]

I don't know.

[Ashley]

When did I get married? I don't know. But Heather knows everything, so. Yeah, you definitely.

[Heather]

But I'll say that you. So here's what I tell my other two sisters. Like, Ashley will be like, hey guys, I'm gonna get a gift for dad. Do you guys want to go in on it? I'm like, get her your money. Pay a tax. Pay a little bonus for getting it. She's buying a card. Include. Because little sister and Corey don't pay quickly. And then they get axed from it. I'm like, if Ashley's doing this off again gift giving, get her money right now. So me and Ashley be like, I PayPal do it. And I was like, I know, I saw it. And then those two would be like, well, I'm working on it. Who's more likely to be found reading a book quietly on a Saturday afternoon?

[Ashley]

Well, I don't think that Corey reads.

[Heather]

I've never touched a book.

[Ashley]

These are hard questions. I think Corey could be found watching a cozy movie curled up with Ray. I think you could be found.

[Heather]

Ray is her other husband. I'm just kidding. It's her dog.

[Ashley]

Her giant dog. Yeah. So I know you listen to books.

[Heather]

I listen to books. You'd find me quietly listening to a book while I drive around on Saturday afternoons. Ashley would actually be the one you'd find quietly reading.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

There's not a book you have read that Ashley hasn't read from. When we were little kids, we used to tattle on her. Be like, mom, Ashley's reading her book and ignoring us. And she's reading it in a way to purposefully leave us out. Who's more likely to be the first one on the dance floor to party?

[Ashley]

That would be Heather.

[Heather]

That was because this one time, guys, I don't dance. I don't like it. I don't like the thought of it. I'm not good at it. Can't keep a rhythm, can't keep a beat. But if that's how much I don't like it, Cory likes it 10 times less.

[Ashley]

I don't think we could pay money for Cory to get up there.

[Heather]

We went at this family wedding. We never have these. My dad walks out there and he's like, anybody want to go with me? And I'm not one to let a man go down in the ship alone. So I did, and they have never let me forget about it. I cringe at the thought. Who is more likely to be meticulously organized in their closet or desk? Yeah. Cory and I really went our separate ways that way. Who's more likely to be into completely new and exact food?

[Ashley]

Oh, that's a good question. Who is. Who is always driving? I feel like you two are always.

[Heather]

I drag Cory with me.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Heather]

And then she's very happy with the experiences in post.

[Ashley]

Because my experience with U2 and food is that you guys find a place.

[Heather]

And we park it. That's our family.

[Ashley]

I like it. I feel like that's always been.

[Heather]

Where are you right now? Where's the. If I think you go to. It was La Touche La. That bakery Jer likes. Jer. Ashley's husband. Jer eats like none other.

[Ashley]

He food is his.

[Heather]

Chocolate is his.

[Ashley]

Yes. If we were looking at his.

[Heather]

The conch.

[Ashley]

Oh, the conch.

[Heather]

That's where Ashley goes. Ashley goes to this remade Burger King into this fancy restaurant. But it used to be a Burger King, so I make fun of it all the time. But it's this really fancy restaurant where chocolate is made into every. Every part of the menu.

[Ashley]

There's a little bit of chocolate in each thing. Even a steak that you order. And the food is incredible.

[Heather]

Did you go to chocolate making class there?

[Ashley]

And it was so. Yeah, that was so fun. But I will Say my level is you guys, where like we go to the same place and he's the one that's always so need somebody in your life.

[Heather]

You're pretty adventurous, especially when Jer's touting you around. Yes. Who is more likely to be the peacemaker in an argument? More likely to leave is more likely to have started the argument.

[Ashley]

I feel like our youngest sister. I know she. I know we're doing which twin, but I feel like Summer is. We needed her now. We should be glad that mom and dad decided to have one more.

[Heather]

She keeps mom and dad out of arguments. Summer is truly the intercessor. And then she does. I said her and Ruthanne are water off a duck's back people. They do not let it stick to them.

[Ashley]

That's wonderful. That's a wonderful way to be. Wish I could be like that.

[Heather]

Yeah. I asked Summer about it the other day and she was like, you just gotta realize, like you said, it's not about me, it's more about them. And I'm just happen to be what they mentioned. Who's more likely to pull an all nighter to finish a project.

[Ashley]

That would be you.

[Heather]

Oh, really? I was gonna say Cory.

[Ashley]

Really?

[Heather]

She does late night baking sometimes.

[Ashley]

See, maybe I just don't have all this information. But sometimes with you, I feel like I get snaps really late at night. And Cory's guilt. Cory is like meticulous with her bedtime to me.

[Heather]

Yeah. Like Ashley, you when you go to bed, I'm guessing you're like an 11 girl.

[Ashley]

I like. 10 is my hope. But if I'm reading and sometimes it's.

[Heather]

Really good, it's closer to 11. Who's more likely to adopt a new pet on a whim? Absolutely Corey. Because she does that, I'm like, wow, this is a life sentence. And you just the other day we're talking about Corey's husband's police officer goes to drop off. I don't know, for some reason he was at the pound. What do you call it when it's the Prince William County Animal Shelter. Oh yeah. And he sees a bulldog. Of course, Corey has his bulldog Ray. And he was like, this bulldog needs us. And she sends me a text, meet me at the animal shelter. We go there, we rescue this dog, she rehabilitates it, gets it adopted out. That's Corey.

[Ashley]

That's Corey. Cory loves an animal, has a heart for an animal.

[Heather]

Cory loves an animal. Who is more likely to accidentally break something valuable?

[Ashley]

Oh, I don't know. I feel like you both are very conscientious.

[Heather]

People. You know, I think it's because we're twins and we shared so much.

[Ashley]

So it was.

[Heather]

So I got to keep my stuff. Nice. Yeah. Okay. So I gotta go through my sponsors. Do you listen to the podcast I listen to? I never.

[Ashley]

I haven't gotten to the sponsors.

[Heather]

So we have. I'm just gonna read these out and then I'm gonna tell you what they're for. As if you've never heard this before. You guys can see our sponsors on their website, sugarcookiemarketing.com scroll down. Ashley said it was pretty. We also have the Cookie my logo collab. Now Ashley knows what collabs are.

[Ashley]

Love a collab.

[Heather]

And this is on Friday, July 25th. If you're listening to this on Tuesday, I'm going to give you guys the copy. This one's going to be a little bit more. You're going to write a little about yourself because you're cookifying your own logo to demonstrate that you know how to cookify your logo. It's a great skill set. One that's going to be on the 25th at 10 Eastern Standard Time. You can find more about that on the website. But our sponsors, we have Cookie Design Lab. Oh, actually, I'm so sorry, Corey's not here to keep me on track. We have a text in podcast question and you can win the Cookie Design Lab month in it. And she has been great about that. Let me just pull up those questions real quick. In all my Gmails, I have to pay more because AI is a part of them. You use AI a lot, right?

[Ashley]

I'm trying to be. I think it's like a. Trying to find the balance because you hear people say, you know, it's causing all this. Like, we live in a land of data centers.

[Heather]

Did you know over 70% of the Internet comes through where we live? And specifically closer to where you live?

[Ashley]

Yeah. So I'm like, oh, no, am I contributing to all these data centers and all this water being used then? Also you don't want to be left behind and you want to be an early adapter. So trying to find that.

[Heather]

Do you pay for it? Do you have a subscription to Chat Ch.

[Ashley]

No, just the regular.

[Heather]

Okay, now you get to be Corey. You get a pick from these texts. We have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. So whatever number this wins a Cookie Design Lab, just email me at Heather.

[Ashley]

SugarCookieMarket7 came to my mind.

[Heather]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Corey, thank you for sharing Your story. Praying for a smooth surgery and a quick recovery. Heather from Alabama. So, Heather from Alabama, send me an email and I get you hooked up. You got seven days to claim it because we're back on our regular scheduled programming. Let me just click through a few of these, if you don't mind. Hi. Hi. I'm in the middle of listening to the Amy podcast and I just wanted to text before I forget that if you use the TikTok Studio app to edit your videos, you can save them without the watermark and you don't have to post it first. You can also schedule to post your videos. Oh, that's cool. Great to know.

[Ashley]

Now you use I like Capcut.

[Heather]

Capcut.

[Ashley]

But that's interesting.

[Heather]

That was interesting because Capcut's no longer free, right?

[Ashley]

I do pay for Capcut.

[Heather]

Oh, you do? I should have asked you what your apps that you pay for. Hello, ladies. Just letting you know I'm thinking of you both today. Hoping that everything goes according to plan and that the bladder stays put and that the recovery is swift and painless and that the caretakers have an easy and worry free time of it. Love you, sugar sisters. As a caretaker, I did pretty good. The Olive Garden was hit or miss, but yeah, that was so funny. On Saturday, I'd screenshotted the text Nate sent me saying, hey, it went really well. And I said, was there any issues with the bladder? And he was like, no, not at all. And my little sister's like, heather, that was so inappropriate that you would have broadcasted Corey's personal bladder surgery. And I was like, did you not? I said, no. And I'm not a question. You did not listen to the podcast where she went very involved with the.

[Ashley]

When I saw that, I said, oh, there is a limit. We want to tell stories, but we don't want to make them too.

[Heather]

Cory's like, listen, girls, go get it checked. And here's every reason why, which I know is pretty good. Cory's not gonna listen to. This will be fine. Last one. Hi, twins. I hope everything is going well with Corey's recovery. STL me about it. Posting strategy for LinkedIn. I just created a page for my cottage bakery, but I'm kind of stuck on what to do next. I'm ready to get in my corporate girly era, and I figured this would be a good place to be, but I'm stuck as to what kind of things I should be posting. Should it be different than my usual on Instagram, Facebook stuff? Right. Kelsey from Texas, what are your thoughts?

[Ashley]

I'm not a LinkedIn girly, unfortunately. But I do think coming in and having a purpose for each platform, I think maybe we rely too much on just repurposing.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

And even repurposing from TikTok to Instagram. Like, things work for one platform that don't work for the others. So I think getting in the head of your dream client, what are they seeing on LinkedIn? This is something that I'm learning for myself this year. That has been our competition is not our competition. Our competition is what our customers are looking at online as they're scrolling. Because everything is about attention. So you could have the most beautiful cookies. But if people are swiping right by. So seeing again, not what you like on Instagram or LinkedIn, what your dream.

[Heather]

Anybody likes anything on LinkedIn, what your.

[Ashley]

Dream customer is looking at and engaging with and seeing how you could show up there.

[Heather]

Which is exactly why the cookie my logo collab is meant for corporate girly era content. Because you're going to say, hey, guys, here's my logo imprint and here's it on a cookie. And that content's gonna be great for LinkedIn because you're gonna repurpose that caption instead of the one that I send you. You're gonna say, hey, LinkedIn. I know a lot of you guys struggle with what to give your clients. If it's anything like a trinket that you know they're gonna throw away. What if it's a trinket that they can actually eat and enjoy? And here's how I can get you to that. Here's an example of my logo. And then my logo turned into a cookie. And I can do that for you. In fact, it makes for a great Christmas present because I can also also put your logo as a sticker on the back so that they can eat. I can add a QR code as well. I can add a cookie tag that makes it kind of a little more of a special gift that you know that it's not going to take up and clutter their house. Corey gets a lot of corporate orders from that. Specifically that. Saks Fifth Avenue. No. Uneven Marcus that with the shoes. Yeah. Because they were like, we want to give our clients something. They obviously are big spenders, so a trinket's not going to cut it, but a cookie is just a little something they can take a picture of and then.

[Ashley]

And like what she did for a Sephora opening where Credit card.

[Heather]

She turned the Sephora. And if you're wondering if that credit card was Black it was. And she was like, this is gonna mess with people's teeth. And they were like, we don't care. That credit card is black. So that's something to keep in mind. So if you guys want to text in, it's 571-1-556-5644. If you have any questions about YNAB or business budgeting, you can send it to me. I can send them to Ash and she can absolutely post about them. For the first time ever, blow the dust off her profile. We have another sponsor. Baking me crazy. Use code favorite twin to save 10 off of that as a baking supply shop. Royal batch is a meringue powder. It's bakedybake.com use code twins to save 10%.

[Ashley]

Bakeity baked. That's so cute.

[Heather]

The website is ridiculously cute. The bag is pink and it's on a feathered like a adorable furry patch. Daisy makes is everything cake pops that you need. I'll get a code from her. So help me. Eddie the printer. Not a discount, but you can put budget form right? We just talked about that today. Um, you can go learn more about him at Eddie Printers users group on Facebook. I think that they're doing an in person meetup in Orlando in January, so that'd be something to budget for as well. It sounded like $400 tickets. Sounded like, don't quote me on that. And then this one is just an affiliate if you want a Bosch mixer, which Corey said maybe in her delusion of pain meds, that we will be giving away a Bosch mixer the first week of August to anybody who's a member of the Cookie college, meaning if you signed up for the midsummer membership sale, which you budgeted for and you said, well, I would like this at a discount because I don't want to pay full price because why would I do that? Because then I can allocate more money to my other ones and needs. So I'm going to sign up for the Cookie College during the midsummer membership sale that starts this Sunday to the following Sunday. That week after we're doing a Bosch mixer giveaway for anyone who is in that Cookie College private group, which you can get if you sign up for the cookie College. The sales page is almost done. I'll make that the homepage. And it kind of walks you through what everything is, what the discounts are, how much you stand to save, and then the common Q and A of how do I get in? Do I need to cancel? What am I on the hook for? How much am I Going to pay. What do I get if I pay this? And which one do I get when I sign up for this membership? Do you have Twinterest?

[Ashley]

What's that?

[Heather]

Twinterest. Wow, you really, truly don't listen to me.

[Ashley]

Sorry.

[Heather]

Yes. Even if you didn't, you turned it off at the end. That's fine. It's something you found interesting. Typically it happens to be a purchase, but something you bought or experienced or did and you're like, wow, that was so interesting. I would love to tell the podcast.

[Ashley]

Verse about it just recently.

[Heather]

Yeah, you kind of, kind of do whatever. There's no rules.

[Ashley]

Let me look and. Oh, can I tell it? Have you guys talked about the Finch app?

[Heather]

This is a good one. This is a good one. I have talked about it, but I want you to tell them because it was your idea.

[Ashley]

Okay. I, I've been, you know, asterisk on there.

[Heather]

Corey forgot to log in during the surgery. Paid the thousand dollars to keep her streak. Oh good. Thousand bird bucks.

[Ashley]

We could do a whole nother conversation about streaks and the pros and cons of streaks. But looking at ads and trying to learn what ads work or not, I just tried to see what me as a consumer stops. And I kept seeing these ads for this cute little self care apple with an adorable little bird loves an ad. I do love an ad and it kind of reminded me, got a little bit of animal crossing vibes where you decorate their house and. But what for me, with goals and habits, I have best of intentions and I usually have the time to do stuff, but I forget, I forget that I set an intention to start this habit or you know, I need to do this or I want to practice my breathing once every day. So I use this Finch app and.

[Heather]

I just, just, it's gamification in the cutest possible way. Because you're a bird.

[Ashley]

Yes.

[Heather]

And then you can connect and, and if you wanted to study the psychological addiction of the Burb app, because Ashley's able to send me kudos in the morning and then I'm buddied up with summer for doing one thing that makes us happy. And then everything I do, I get rainbow bucks where I can use to go buy clothes for my bird. So Ashley put us onto that. And the way the app is very interesting, but the more you use the app, the cheaper the subscription gets. And so I, I said it said if you do this for 100 days straight, we'll let you buy it. $40 for the year.

[Ashley]

That's so interesting.

[Heather]

And I was like, I'LL get to the 100 days. Now I think about like 200.

[Ashley]

Wow.

[Heather]

Ashley's bird is like a luxury bird. My bird is like, is that free? I'll put it in my house.

[Ashley]

Okay, that's my answer. The fin chap.

[Heather]

Let me think of what I was interested and girl, I think it's this rug tufting thing. I feel a call to it. You know why I feel this call to. I was going to buy for Brian a Viper rug rug, and a guy said, hey, I'm selling this rug. And I said, sold. Found him on Reddit. And he was like, absolutely great. And I was like, here's what I want. This, that and the other. I. I made an offer on it. He took the offer. Then I see him post in the Viper Facebook group and he's like, I'm selling this rug. And I was like, hey, you sell that to me.

[Ashley]

I bought that.

[Heather]

I said, I hope you have. Because he was like, I accidentally have one rug left over. Like, you can't accidentally have one rug left over two times. I said, I hope this is a must marketing ploy. And if it is, I am for it. However, if it is not, you sold this to me on Reddit. I've paid you. So let's, let's start chit chatting here. Also now, guy with real name because Reddit was anonymous and you're like, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. It turns out he was a scam artist. And yeah, he was just a liar. So I, this will be my, my topic and PayPal. He called me a guinea pig. You call me a rude name, not rude. Destruction of my life. Yeah. He was like, oh. Because I had said if you're. If you. I said to everybody, listen, I've already paid Viper people. I've already paid for this rug. If I get the rug, I'll post that. I got the rug. I'll be the guinea pig. But then he's like, you wrote it. When I filed the PayPal claim, I said, I just wanted the rug. Okay?

[Ashley]

But I will learn tufting and we.

[Heather]

Will make our own Viper. But yeah, there's a Tufting business.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Heather]

In Tyson's mall where I park. So I said to the sisters, would we go? And they said, yes, maybe it'll be like, yeah, our new thing, you just don't know. So that takes us through the podcast. Thank you so much, Ash, for filling in.

[Ashley]

Thank you so much for being here. Corey, we love you and hope you are recuperating into all the bakers listening. I hope you are resting during cuz this is slow time, right? Slow season and have the most incredible fall for your business.

[Heather]

We are all ready and every baker's posting about spooky season.

[Ashley]

Oh yeah.

[Heather]

And everyone's like, you can just see rear in for it because it's too hot right now. We're also in the lull of holidays. Okay, how many beach themed platters are people buying? But come spooky season, classes start picking up up platters start picking up DIY kits start picking up and then it's just off to the races.

[Ashley]

Amazing.

[Heather]

Okay guys, we'll see you next week. I think Cory will be back. We'll be in the middle of our midsummer membership sale. The cookie collab will have already happened and I'm sure I'm missing something, but we'll cover it again next week. Thank you, Ash.

[Ashley]

Thanks for listening.