252. Baking it Down - Piping Positioning

Summary

Baking It Down with Sugar Cookie Marketing 🍪

Episode 252: Piping Positioning

Date: March 17, 2026
Hosts: Heather & Corey Miracle

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Episode Overview

In this week’s episode, Heather and Corey deep-dive into the marketing concept of positioning—how your cookie business (or any business) occupies "mental real estate" in your customers’ minds. Using examples from both the baking world and broader commerce, the twins explore strategies for shaping and understanding your market position. They also touch on handling branding mishaps, customer service challenges, and the power of shifting (or holding) perceptions—a must-listen for bakers looking to stand out.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Twin Dynamic and Podcast Origins

• The episode kicks off with Heather and Corey’s playful banter about being twins and how people perceive them as interchangeable, drawing a light parallel to how brands can be perceived as undifferentiated unless they carve out a unique position.

• Quote (Heather, 02:11): "Hot take. I think it was hard for my mom to be like, these are two individuals when she was drowning in kids. So it was like, Ashley, the twins, Summer."

• Podcast Origin: The sisters reminisce about starting the podcast as a spinoff of their Facebook group to help busy bakers learn about business and marketing on the go.

  • (Heather & Corey, 05:00): "So five years we’ve been doing it and we got some loyal listeners..."

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2. Defining Positioning: What It Is (and Isn’t)

• Key Quote (Heather, 04:26): “Positioning is not what you do to a product. Positioning is what you do to the mind of the prospect.” — Jack Trout.
• Distinguishing Positioning from Branding & Value Propositions
  • Branding: Visual, design elements (logo, colors, fonts).
  • Value Proposition: The deal/offer—why a customer should care.
  • Positioning: The unique “slot” occupied in your customer’s mind, shaped by your actions, messaging, and reputation.

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3. Positioning Examples—Learning from Big Brands

Heather illustrates positioning with several well-known companies:

• Quince: Positioning themselves as "luxury essentials at radically lower prices."
  • Heather shares a story about experiencing their customer service: "Now I’m like, not only is it luxury essentials at radically lower prices, but it’s with fantastic customer service in my head." (Heather, 11:29)
• Shein: The opposite: Positioned as "cheap, fast, worthless" in Heather and Corey’s estimation.
• Other Examples (Mental Real Estate Game at 12:18):
  • Safe Car: Volvo (Corey, 12:36)
  • Customer Service: Chick-fil-A (Corey, 12:50)
  • Everyday Low Prices: Walmart
  • Quick Oil Change: Jiffy Lube
  • Quick Hamburgers: McDonald’s
  • Streaming: Netflix
  • Quality Groceries: Wegmans/Whole Foods
  • Dating: Hinge (now) vs. Tinder (past)

Memorable Moment:

Heather and Corey play a rapid-fire game matching product categories to the brands that dominate their mental real estate (12:19–18:39)—a clear illustration of effective positioning (“Who is the ‘chicken’ in customer service?”).

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4. How Positioning Works in the Baking World

The Challenge: It’s Not What YOU Say, It’s What THEY THINK

• Positioning is shaped primarily by the customer’s real-world experience—not your intentions or marketing.
  • Quote (Heather, 21:21): "What’s great about positioning... is you can advertise and market yourself in some way, but how your audience digests you is something you don’t have control over."

Gaining and Losing Position

• It’s hard to shift positioning once formed (23:47)—it can take “20 not lates” to erase being known as ‘the late one’ (Heather’s anecdote about being late to work meetings, 25:54).
• One bad experience can outweigh years of positive association.

Examples with Cookie Businesses

• A baker specializing in mini cookies: Position is “the mini cookie baker,” top-of-mind when customers want small, affordable treats. (Corey, 53:23)
• Price Positioning: If your only angle is “cheapest baker,” be prepared for burnout—price alone is a tough, unsustainable mental slot (Corey, 41:01).

Positioning is about Nuance

• Positioning can be multi-dimensional; for example, Heather and Corey’s cookie classes are “high quality, but $30 cheaper than the next place.” (Heather, 43:13)
• Their own business is positioned as approachable, witty, and consistent (audience feedback at 46:46).

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5. Creating (& Diagnosing) Your Own Positioning

The Positioning Formula (43:32):

For [target audience], [Brand Name] is a [Category] that [Point of Differentiation] because [Reason to Believe].

• Corey: Moms 30–50, Mixing Bowl Cookie Co., cottage bakery, “really flexible” due to home operation and empathy (44:04).

Reverse Engineering:

• What do your customers REALLY think of you? Ask, look at feedback, or deduce from behaviors.
• If you’re consistent but not differentiated, work to highlight your unique “something.”
  • Quote (Heather, 47:02): “Three of them said, ‘You’re just so witty on your Facebook page. I appreciate that.’”
  • Being friendly, approachable, or fun CAN be a valid (and strong) position, especially in service industries.

Actionable Advice:

• If you wish to reposition (e.g., from “birthday baker” to “wedding baker”), you must overhaul your marketing, visuals, and partnerships to match.
  • Corey’s example about shifting her bakery to attract more wedding orders, requiring new messaging and visuals (51:31–52:08).

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6. Practical Positioning Cases and Troubleshooting

Shipping and Customer Service Dilemmas (87:15)

• When events outside your control (e.g., FedEx shipping delays) impact your customer’s experience:
  • “Nobody was wrong. But it was wrong.” (Heather, 88:05)
  • Suggestion: If fully out of your hands & policies make expectations clear, a refund isn’t mandatory, but clear up-front communication is vital.

Cookie Class Management: Handling Slow Participants (98:39)

• If a student is holding up your decorating class, use gentle guidance, check in often, and offer visuals or cues to help them catch up. Having a co-instructor (like the Miracle twins) helps, but strategies can be solo-adapted (99:05–100:23).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• 02:11, Heather: “Ashley, the twins, Summer. Like, instead of saying Ashley, Heather, Corey, Summer, it was Ashley, the twins."
• 04:27, Heather: “Positioning is not what you do to a product. Positioning is what you do to the mind of the prospect.” — Jack Trout
• 10:24, Corey: “What the customer thinks about it is going to be the end all, be all. So they might have said... but the same quality. And maybe a few people have gotten it and said... now their new thing is their positioning is big fat liars.”
• 23:47, Heather: “I came late three times. It took 20 not lates for me to reposition in her head that I wasn’t a late person.”
• 41:53, Corey: “When you price your stuff cheaper, you get burnt out really fast because it’s a time end game... you can only be so much cheaper before everyone’s booking with you, and now you’re burnt out.”
• 46:46, Corey: "Three people said: 'you’re just so witty on your Facebook page. I appreciate that.' So maybe approachable... Is that a strong positioning?"
• 57:06, Corey: “...you’re always going to be able to come in, come out, and you’re going to always be like, ‘I can always go to SCM for either a quality answer or to learn where the market, the industry is going.’”

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Important Timestamps

• 04:27 — Definition of Positioning (with Jack Trout quote)
• 12:18–18:39 — “Mental Real Estate” Brand Game (Rapid-fire associations)
• 43:32 — Positioning Formula for bakeries; practical application with Mixing Bowl Cookie Co.
• 51:31–52:08 — Shifting positioning from birthday to wedding baker (strategy overview)
• 57:06 — Consistent value in Sugar Cookie Marketing & the Facebook group’s positioning
• 87:15 — Dealing with customer service and shipping delays (reader question answer)
• 98:39–100:23 — Managing slow class participants in cookie classes

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Action Items for Bakers

1. Audit How Clients See You:
   • Ask for feedback, read your reviews, check recurring descriptions.
2. Define and Sharpen Your Positioning:
   • Use the formula: For [audience], [Brand] is a [category] that [differentiator] because [reason].
3. Communicate Clearly:
   • Make your desired position obvious in visuals, messaging, and customer experience.
4. Embrace Consistency & Adapt When Needed:
   • Consistent experiences build trust in your position; missteps can require dozens of positive encounters to repair.
5. Be Ready to Change Your Position (With Work):
   • If you want to shift, overhaul your messaging and approach—don’t rely on old habits to win new customers.

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Fun & Relatable Closing

The episode ends with classic twin banter, reflections on “biting off more than you can chew” as an entrepreneur, doppelganger stories, and a reminder that most people are too busy worrying about themselves to notice your “flaws.” The encouragement: become self-aware about your business and take action to ensure your clients think about you the way you want to be thought of.

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For More

• Join the Facebook group: Sugar Cookie Marketing
• Check out their bootcamps & resources: TheCookieCollege.com

Next Week: New marketing topic and maybe, just maybe, some more sisterly shenanigans!

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“If you appeal to everybody, you appeal to nobody.” (Heather, 49:21)

Transcript

[Heather]

Cory and I have been arguing about audio, and now we're starting the podcast. We're not arguing.

[Corey]

We are discussing with a lot of aggression.

[Heather]

Listen, I could care less about all this equipment. I just know it needs to work together. But Corey, for some odd reason, takes it as a personal injury when I say, hey, listen, it caught your breaths on the last one.

[Corey]

I'm a literal person. When someone says, be two inches away from the microphone. My body will be two inches away. But Heather's like, you know when singers sing a real high note and they back off because you kind of close eyes and look off into the distance?

[Heather]

Do that. Here's the thing. Like, she wants to yell and then be shocked that I don't know when

[Corey]

the passion of marketing is going to take over my body. It just happens.

[Heather]

Let's hope that passion takes over right now with the podcast that we have. So you want to tell them what the sugar cookie marketing group is?

[Corey]

Yeah. Welcome to the Baking it down with Sugar Cookie Marketing podcast.

[Heather]

We're your host.

[Corey]

We're actually twin sisters that have never actually left the womb. We've been together ever since negative day nine months. And then we stuck together after that.

[Heather]

Question.

[Corey]

Do you.

[Heather]

I'm allowed to say this because I'm a twin. I don't think there should be twins. I think it's too hard for parents to manage.

[Corey]

Is that better? Is it better?

[Heather]

Thank you.

[Corey]

She's learning. 252nd episode Twins is difficult. And being a twin, it's. It's a mind.

[Heather]

It's a boggling experience.

[Corey]

Mind boggling experience because people treat you like you're the same exact person. Even my little sister on Saturday looked at me and she's like, is it weird being a twin? I said, what's crazy is I'm a twin to everybody else. I'm not a twin to myself because I don't see me. So Heather just looks like another sister. She. I don't know, she looks like me. My eyeballs are always facing outwards. I said, but to everybody else, they're experiencing twindom because we look the same, but they're also treating us as the same person. You would never go up of yours in today's society and be like, you know what? I like Trisha better than I like you. But for whatever reason, when it comes to twins, someone will be like, I think I like Heather more.

[Heather]

The other version. That's my twin. Hot take. I think it was hard for my mom to be like, these are two individuals when she was drowning in kids. So it was like, ashley, the twins Summer.

[Corey]

Like, instead of saying ashley, Heather, Corey, Summer, it was Ashley, the twins. And then me and Heather in our little dumbness would yell out, which one? And mom said, you knew which one

[Heather]

I meant, oh, it was Cory. So that's my hot take. I once met a guy and he had twin daughters or something, and he's like, I'll never tell them which one is older. And I was like, that's weird. But maybe I kind of get it because he wanted them not to see a comparison of their birthdays.

[Corey]

I had a baking client once. I only was able to bake for her for two years. So I don't know if she gave this up or maybe she hated me. She ordered two different sets of cookies for her twins because she wanted them to have individual birthdays even though they were on the same day.

[Heather]

See, I love that.

[Corey]

The investment, though, you would have to

[Heather]

say it doubles your cost versus saying you two shareguard you.

[Corey]

So I was like, wow. She was like, yeah. So this one, she really likes princesses and whichever this one really is into the singer. So we did two separate orders, but she picked them up on the same day. Gifts for the two kids. And I said, wow. I said, let me commend you as a twin myself.

[Heather]

You know, price anchoring, where you see one price and your mind anchor. So that was like, great anchoring. Like, my mom would be like, heather got this. So Corey. Or like, Corey made this cute. So Heather. And I was like, actually like, there's no.

[Corey]

You were held to the higher hard class.

[Heather]

Yeah, it was always the outperforming twin held the anchor, and then the other twin by default was underperforming.

[Corey]

And unfortunately, Heather loved to have her nose in a bus.

[Heather]

I may not have been queen of

[Corey]

the boys girls club. I definitely could read them both.

[Heather]

Okay, so we want to talk about what's coming, and I'll talk about it later in this podcast. But the AI collab is this week. The cookies and carrots class has just dropped, and the pre sale bootcamp is now set up for purchase, but that will drop April 1st. The quote for today is, positioning is not what you do to a product. Positioning is what you do to the mind of the prospect. Jack Trout.

[Corey]

Yeah, so if you've never heard of us before, we are the sugar cookie marketing Facebook group. This is just an arm of it. I told Heather one day that while I bake, I like to listen to things, and I can't necessarily log into the group and read because I have to be Decorating, cleaning, talking to clients. So what I said is, let's just make this podcast. And how many years has it been? 5?

[Heather]

4.

[Corey]

5.

[Heather]

It's the 252nd episode. So 2. 5. Somebody's doing this math in their hands. 5. 2 divided by

[Corey]

4.8 years. Oh, my soul.

[Heather]

Probably longer because we missed a few of these. So probably five years.

[Corey]

So five years we've been doing it and we got some loyal listeners. I mean, they do not miss a beat when we do not upload on a Tuesday. Someone will be there in the sugar cookie marketing group being like, no pod. What gives, huh? But this is just what we see happening in the group is what we bring to your attention. Or as marketing ebbs and flows, maybe something that's in the news, something that's catching on, a new platform update. We like to bring it to your ear holes so it's something you can marinate on while you're doing all your

[Heather]

orders for the week.

[Corey]

And that is.

[Heather]

Sure.

[Corey]

When.

[Heather]

What do you feel like the month and year were of the first episode?

[Corey]

Hold on, let me think. I want to say it was a summer month.

[Heather]

Wrong. It's actually this month. Oh, it was a spring month. A spring month. Was you. Was it March? It was March.

[Corey]

This month in the day.

[Heather]

Can you.

[Corey]

The 8th?

[Heather]

The 21st in the year 2021 2? No. Can you guess what the. The first episode is? A intro that always plays. Unfortunately, it's horrendous. The second episode was filmed the same day. What was our first ever topic?

[Corey]

How to get clients.

[Heather]

Should you have a Facebook page?

[Corey]

Oh, I like that. That was a good starter one.

[Heather]

The answer was yes. Guys, if you're wondering, it was a

[Corey]

H episode because we were reading it. And now we realize people don't like to just hear someone monotonously reading off of a piece of paper.

[Heather]

Yes. Now you guys can hear us. Yep. Okay, so talking about today's podcast topic, I was thinking about it a lot, having moved this week, and a company that keeps showing up for me in ads and recommendations from other people and then on anonymous forums is a company called Quince. The wild part is my family hadn't heard of it. So Gams and my aunt, we call indeed Gams being our grandmother, they were saying, asking about like, oh, what did you purchase? And I was like, oh, I purchased this stuff from Quince. Well, where'd you hear about it? It's so funny. Ashley recommended it, but I seen ads about it. Well, how did Ashley found it? She found a UGC content creator who had a. Like to know it. And all the stuff was from this company called Quints. So you go to Quints and it is like a marketplace, but the only person selling is Quint. But they sell just about every home good type thing from linens and fabrics. That's what I purchased bedding. To now clothes and now jewelry and purses. And it seems to be ever expanding.

[Corey]

So is it a sheen of sorts?

[Heather]

No. And that's the. The caveat is Quince is the only seller, but it sources its stuff from the same manufacturing companies that high end companies sell. So specifically competing with West Elm and Pottery Barn.

[Corey]

I just. With the clothing is throwing me. How does clothing is, you know, come into that equation?

[Heather]

It's saying like staple pieces that will last forever.

[Corey]

Oh, so staple pieces in your life. So it can be a table, can be a pair of pants.

[Heather]

Yes. And the pants. I've always had this one pair of their pants in my cart. Never ordered it.

[Corey]

Don't know why.

[Heather]

I've been carting these things around for years. I already did order their bedding because I wanted to recreate this girl's like comfy looking bed. And I was wildly impressed with not only the quality, the price was lower than Pottery Barn and West Elm, but it wasn't cheap.

[Corey]

Right.

[Heather]

It was like that was what you'd spend there. But $100 up. In fact, they've gotten sued for this. Their ad says, do you want this? It's exactly what Pottery Barn sells, but $100 cheaper.

[Corey]

Interesting. Here's my thought behind not ordering the pants. Usually when a company says they're good at something and you know, they're, they do it really well, you're like, I'm really the, the, the housing stuff like my, you know, linens and the, the furniture. But when someone's like. And you know, we make jack of all trades.

[Heather]

Master. Yeah.

[Corey]

You're like, I don't know about that one though.

[Heather]

But okay. Having now tasted of their.

[Corey]

I know. Would you buy a balloon?

[Heather]

I would buy with more confidence now, actually.

[Corey]

Oh, Pinteresting.

[Heather]

Okay, so Quince, when you go to their website and order anything, their positioning. So again there's, there's a branding. It's what it looks like. So they use the fancy handwriting and it's got like the terracotta colors and the purples and the water. That's branding. Then you've got your value proposition. So they're better quality for less. Right. That's a value proposition. But the positioning and this is the key of this entire Podcast is what I think about them, the real estate in the consumer's mind, Right? So you can, you can do all this plays together. It's all part of the marketing focus thing. Right? But in this niche that we're talking about today, it's positioning. So Quince's positions itself as luxury essentials at radically lower prices. They really like that word, radically. Oh, that's so funny.

[Corey]

What's so funny about positioning is you can say whatever you want to about your brand. What the customer thinks about it is going to be the end all, be all. So they might have said, you know, radical discount, but. But the same quality. And maybe a few people have gotten it and said, you know what, this is not good quality. This is sheen quality. And now their new thing is their positioning is big fat liars.

[Heather]

Well, I think it's very interesting you, in this one sentence you just said, you told us what your positioning with Shein is. Cheap, fast, worthless. Yes, that is how it's positioned you has whether or not you can find some quality products in their inadvertent marketing and how you've imbibed it has positioned them as not worth ordering from.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather]

Derogatory, yes. But some people love shin. They love the deals, they love the fast fashion, the throwaway pieces. Now Quinn says we're absolutely not that. That's positioning in your head. Now I've experienced them, right? So I ordered them. Of course, I didn't know you couldn't order stuff across country lines. I got caught up in FedEx, got with Customs, added declare a bird type or something. But I said, okay, let me talk to Quince's support. And I was like, this is going to suck. No, you could text in. Somebody replied immediately through text message, wrapped it up, figured it all out. The next morning, everything was solved. So now I'm like, not only is it luxury essentials at radically lower prices, but it's with fantastic customer service in my head. Then I regurgitate that to Gans and Deaton. You now I'm on a podcast talking about it.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So you see that positioning can be really powerful because Corey just drags she in and then we just promote a coin. So it says they disrupt retail by offering high end goods like cashmere, silk and linens direct from factories to consumers. By eliminating middlemen and retail markups, they target the value conscious shopper. So that's their target, which we'll talk about in a minute. Looking for affordable luxury. That's what they provide. And dupes of higher priced items emphasizing Quality at a fraction of the cost. That is their entire positioning. And I say that's what they want me to think. And that's been my experience. It is now what I think. Yes, they.

[Corey]

You are now a true believer.

[Heather]

They have really dialed in their positioning within my target. Maybe they have other targets, but within the target that I'm getting remarketed to, they're hitting there. And now in my mental real estate, that is where they exist. So job building.

[Corey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Heather]

Okay, so you guys may be lost here, but I made a list of mental real estate, and let's see if Corey can peg it to the brand. Okay, this isn't branding. This is positioning. Right. Who is positioned in your head as a safe car manufacturer?

[Corey]

Volvo or Subaru?

[Heather]

Volvo is the one that we have written down here. Customer service, chicken, Chick Fil A. Why'd you pick it? That's what happened.

[Corey]

My pleasure. They're always willing to make pleasure. They're fast because there's a lot of fast food.

[Heather]

Chicken, kfc, Popeyes. But customer service, chicken. We think of Chick Fil A. I don't think of Popeyes as having a great customer experience.

[Corey]

No. I've. I've sat in a Popeyes drive through for 45 minutes, and I've never drive

[Heather]

through and they ran out of chicken.

[Corey]

I've never sat in a Chick Fil a line longer than two minutes. Yeah.

[Heather]

Fantastic. Customer service. Yeah. Gamson. I'll take her to Chick Fil A. And she'll always be like, the lines through the street head.

[Corey]

Do we.

[Heather]

Sure we want to go? I said, we'll be through this in two minutes. And then halfway through. What? We're just. They're just chucking us through the line. Gails are like. I just had to say it again. They're so amazing how quickly they move us. And that's positioning in her head. In her head. If I want chicken and I want it quickly with a customer service spin, I'll go to Chick Fil A. Yeah. Everyday products at lower costs.

[Corey]

Walmart. Yes. Nice.

[Heather]

Nice. You know, I'll tell you guys, my. My twenties, I didn't live by Walmart. I lived by a Wegmans. I mean, within, like, not even a stone's throw of sarcasm. I could throw a stone at the building and it would hit it.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And I don't even have good aim. That's how close we were. And I would go there so much that people would say, do you work here? No, I just. Huge fan. Then I moved from the Wegmans. That was really inconvenient for me to go to Wegmans so it was more convenient for me to go to Walmart. What I've been doing with my life Walmart's so much cheaper.

[Corey]

What's so crazy about Walmart is it is everyday lower prices. Customer service is not going to exist

[Heather]

in so you do go there with

[Corey]

Walmart and you self guide it isn't one inclusive experience. You better not be needing help with nothing.

[Heather]

I like being so consistent at a Walmart that they kind of know me there.

[Corey]

My Walmart in my area is so big and so many people go there. They'll never known you.

[Heather]

They will not know you there. Yeah there's two I moved and I have access to two Walmarts one one light up one 20 minutes away so I went to the 20 minute away one because greed got the best of me. Ptooie patui. Give me back to this funny. Okay, quick oil changes Jibbly. That's a lot because I never ever been but I know exactly have you

[Corey]

ever been One bazillion years ago but every time I drive by I'm like yeah they were pretty quick at it you know but that's that's their positioning in their marketing. You get in, get out, get an all change.

[Heather]

Ruthanne went the other day and I was a massive fan of judgment Free gym that would be Planet Fitness Judge Full gym.

[Corey]

It's talked full of people dead

[Heather]

gas. This is interesting because I wrote this one myself. The other ones I googled gas with

[Corey]

great convenience store it's either Wawa or Sheets. Both sell hoagies inside.

[Heather]

I prefer Sheets myself because I feel like their store is bigger.

[Corey]

Oh really?

[Heather]

Also feel like their bathrooms are cleaner but I know it's hit or miss.

[Corey]

I do think Sheets has more stalls.

[Heather]

Yes. They also have those really warped mirrors that make me look them you know like where it's or the other way. Yeah yeah yeah I'm going to get them compliments walking out to my car. Quick hamburgers.

[Corey]

McDonald's.

[Heather]

McDonald's quality groceries.

[Corey]

I would say either Wegman Wegmans for quality but if you're like talking healthy Whole Foods.

[Heather]

Oh that should have done that one. Healthy groceries Whole foods. The interesting thing is people listening who are trying to play this game as well. If you don't have these stores in your area that company didn't fight to position itself because it doesn't care.

[Corey]

It doesn't need to but you've probably thought of some place near you that has fought for that and that was

[Heather]

the multiple companies trying to fight for that real estate. And why you. Why you said one first, why you thought one first streaming service.

[Corey]

I say Netflix, and I think that

[Heather]

one is because it was first to market for so long. Now my default is I'll always see if it's on Netflix, which it never is now, and I'll have to go figure out where it is.

[Corey]

I know. I think Netflix has lost some of the edge, and they've allowed other ones to come up. And now the. You can have whole shows on a different streaming service. So it makes it difficult.

[Heather]

Usually Netflix shows became like trading players on the NFL. Like when the office left Netflix and moved to, what, Peacock or something, Whatever.

[Corey]

To me, Netflix was like a conglomerate that they took shows from everywhere and put them in one spot. But now you have, like, HBO Max has its own shows on there that Netflix will never have access to.

[Heather]

So, yeah, HBO Max is never gonna prime will be like, you can buy it through us, but you have to go watch it over there.

[Corey]

Like, oh,

[Heather]

best dating app.

[Corey]

Okay. I haven't been on a dating app, but I love to hear people's dating stories, and they're always on Hinge.

[Heather]

Same haven't been on dating app, but Hinge was the first that came to mind, so. But it's funny, if you had asked somebody maybe five years ago, I think they would have all said Tinder, which is now lost its mental real estate and has become the hunk of them.

[Corey]

I. I'll be honest that I couldn't even remember the word Tinder in my brain.

[Heather]

Crazy, because I think it was. But, like, when I was 19, I think everyone was on eharmony and that they were.

[Corey]

They were on plenty of fish. Girl, we ain't had that kind of money.

[Heather]

But you remember eharny had just like this. Just hold on, right?

[Corey]

I think it was first time was like, are you done with plenty of fish? We are here to match you with your beloved.

[Heather]

I think that you remember when I haven't been on any. I did think I made a match.com for B when I was 19. But just to like, this is before swiping. Swiper. No swiping. Yeah, but now, okay, like, eharmony was like, you remember we got a friend named Ashley to fill it out. It was like 50 billion questions.

[Corey]

Yeah, it was 1 million questions. So you'd be like, whoever you match

[Heather]

with is going to be the love of your life.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

Now you got this like, swipey, swipey thing. And it's just like, here's a couple pictures of myself. Here's catchphrase.

[Corey]

People are like, it's almost like marketing strategic. Whereas eharmony is like let's get to. Let. Let's get you to know you. So then the future other person knows who you are as well. Like eharmony was asking heavy hitting questions that you might have not ever asked yourself and you're like, wow, I'm coming to grips to know myself here. Whereas I think like those swipey, no swipey ones are like how what's your best looking picture and tagline and like hopefully it catches someone in two seconds.

[Heather]

Do you just feel like the E Harmony would be a better pitch better? No, obviously not because it's lost its market share. You said hinge.

[Corey]

I guess it's just the one that the young people are talking about. Maybe it's the low buy in. I think eharmony had a high price.

[Heather]

Well, I think you might be right. I don't know.

[Corey]

It's hinge free or is it not free?

[Heather]

I don't know exactly. Okay, if I say the word social media, who has that mental real estate for you?

[Corey]

I say Facebook meta to me at my 37th year of age and it's

[Heather]

also where sugar cookie marketing group exists. So I think that's why it's a heavy hitter in this mental real estate. Yeah.

[Corey]

But I will say that I, I spend a lot of time on TikTok. It has not been around as long, so maybe that's why my brain isn't tied to it.

[Heather]

Yeah. I wonder. TikTok seems more informative to me. I use Facebook mostly for the groups. Yeah. Fast car wash Flagship and that is hyper local does. I don't know, it just kind of swept in the past couple years and bought up all the other car washes.

[Corey]

It did. I don't know. It's now a huge conglomerate. Yeah. And if I see a car wash that isn't Flagship, I'm like, I don't think you're along for this world, friend.

[Heather]

I think flagship's coming for you to buy you. So that's my example. So, okay, remember back to what this is. Positioning is what the real estate in Corey's head was earned by these companies. Right. So a lot of these, some of these you'll be like. I was going to say Volvo too, but she also said Subaru. So somehow Subaru to what makes a Subaru? Subaru is finding that positioning within your head as well.

[Corey]

So.

[Heather]

Right. Positioning is that it takes a while to change a positioning within the client's head. But I really like it. So Quince's website, I went to it and it said, this is on their about page. We started Quince to challenge the existing idea that nice things have to cost a lot. Our mission was simple. Create products that equal or greater quality than leading luxury brands at a much lower price. Because we believe quality should never be a luxury. That messaging. So that's a messaging. That's what they're telling us. Right. It's just everywhere in their website and the big takeaways is it's quality, luxury cost less. So that's kind of what they're doing now. In my head, they're growing their market share there because I thought the other day, oh, you know what? I moved to this house. I actually don't own silverware. I should check to see if Quince has it.

[Corey]

Because now what's great about positioning and also bad about positioning is you can advertise and market yourself in some way, but how your audience digests you, it's something you don't have control over. So if Quince said, you know, great quality stuff at a low price, Heather buys it and it's not quality, but it was a low price. They have lost. They have worked against their whole marketing team. And now Heather has super adverse where they're whether she ordered from Sheen, which is known for its low quality but cheap prices, and maybe she gets something that's low quality and cheap. They came right in, right in at where they promised.

[Heather]

I want to be honest, the pricing of Quint is nowhere. Like, don't, don't log on and think that you're going to see anything Shein at all. Like, it was like considerably not cheap, but it definitely wasn't as much as what had Quints had. I had this issue with customs and I didn't realize the packages coming across the state or border had quince. You know, FedEx was like, if you

[Corey]

don't get back to us, we're shipping it back to Quint and you'll never

[Heather]

get this order again. Had Quince not helped me with the support side, I would have said, okay, you're luxury for less at the cost of support. Yes.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Then I said I'd never buy from them again if I did not get this package because of this issue. Because I did buy the thing three weeks ago and it's gotten hung up for so long. However, their text chat was available 24 7. I immediately got a response which surprised me and it was resolved by the time I woke up. The Next morning.

[Corey]

Yeah, it's. It's funny how your messaging can work for or against you if you don't hold up your end of the bag and right.

[Heather]

I can tell you fast burgers and Corey thinks McDonald's but if I said quality burgers she knows I would say

[Corey]

probably a sit down or restaurant with

[Heather]

you would have said that. Bobby Flays. Right. Oh, burger.

[Corey]

Burger Palace.

[Heather]

Burger palace was great. I really liked what was the one we went to during COVID It was the only place was open. You had to pick it up and leave the.

[Corey]

Oh, what is that?

[Heather]

Burger joint.

[Corey]

Burger joint. Burger joint. Yeah, it was really good.

[Heather]

Grandpa's. So here's what I want to talk about. What is positioning? So now we kind of talked about in theory of it. Quinn says the example because I was wildly impressed with him. It's been on my mind how it was like really nicely packaged. Each of their linens comes in a bag that matches. I got all these emails as soon as they bought on how to care for it. Okay, great. And then all these, if you leave a review will give you a discount. Okay. So they're, they're leaving leaning heavily on this. Leave consumer reviews to gain more market share.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But I think they kind of earned it. So what is positioning? Positioning in marketing is the strategic process of shaping how the target customer perceives the brand or product as it's related to competitors aiming to establish a unique, memorable and desirable place in their mind. So you see, this is all what focus on me, buddy. This is all what the consumer perceives of the brand.

[Corey]

It's almost the final bastion of marketing. You've done your marketing post, you've said what makes you different. You've done the whole order and now it's whatever lies in the hands of the customers, the cookies in their hands and now their thoughts about you.

[Heather]

Like mind control. Like how close can I get to a brain that you think exactly what I want you to think. However along the line is it doesn't matter how much all these pieces are great, fantastic. If something doesn't align, that consumer will and your mind position you in a different place. Yes, I think you can have a fantastic everything and have one snafu and that positioning in their mind and be

[Corey]

like, oh, oh, you can have a client that's ordered from you for years and years and years and years and then you mess up maybe big time on an order and the final thought they have about you on their final order because they're never going to ever think of you for another order. Will be the negative one.

[Heather]

When I worked for a company, they had a lot of meetings that I thought were a bit pointless. Okay. I thought we could have done them through an email, but whatever. They wanted the meeting. So the meetings were all over this. We're in the, you know, dmv. So there's three states. They were all over the three states. There was never just one place. So one of the meetings was about an hour away in traffic. Right. So it's kind of hard to predict it during rush hour. They obviously scheduled then, and I showed up late to like three of them. Probably like by late, I mean like five minutes. Enough to send the apology and say, sorry, guys, traffic is crazy. But not enough to be like, that person is disrespectful. Right. That said, the counterpart, the marketer from Maryland, always called me late.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

She always said, oh, there's Heather. She's late. I came late three times. It took 20 not lates for me to reposition in her head that I wasn't a late person.

[Corey]

It's hard to reposition someone's opinions about something. So someone will have a lot of good experience with, let's say Krispy Kreme doughnuts. And then one day they'll wear it.

[Heather]

Are you gonna speak cream kick again? Is that why you brought that up?

[Corey]

Because I found my gift card that Arch gave me.

[Heather]

Oh, yeah. From. Was that your birthday? Yeah.

[Corey]

So you can have a lot of good experiences with the company, but the. The last bad one can be the only one that they remember. You have to think about how often will Heather order from Quince. You probably don't need bedroom furniture very often. I hope not.

[Heather]

Just running through bed frame. Yeah.

[Corey]

So the bigger the purchases. Let's say if you are a baker that specializes in solely wedding cakes. We're hoping these people aren't getting married multiple times. But you know, as someone who's been married twice, it has there for a reason. But you have that one experience with them where your. Your messaging has to massive match their positioning of you so you can continue to grow so that they spread good news about you instead of being like, don't buy from so and so. They're horrendous. Right.

[Heather]

So the positioning is hard to control because it's out of our hands.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

We can do the best job if you don't stick the lane at one time. Does it cost it? Do you have to earn it back? Does Quint. Again, the order wasn't without its faults. I. But I'm a huge fan because of how the faults were handled. So even though the order didn't go well, it didn't go according to plan at all. I was delayed by three entire weeks. I was still a huge fan because of how it was handled.

[Corey]

Well, that's, that's fantastic on their end and for your end that you're still a big believer even though there was a snafu in it. And I wish everyone was able to give a company that, you know, benefit of the doubt that grace. And as much as bakers are like, I mess up, I'm human. I mean, bakers are still lambasting suppliers online all the time. So it's not like a return favor.

[Heather]

And it's so funny. People do as I say, not as I do. I would be able to at one point say that Amazon's two day shipping, they almost beat it by shipping it in a day, but I can no longer say that. So they gained a lot of market share if they. Through that positioning of, you know, you have access to more things, you have access to faster shipping if you pay for Prime. But now there's an A lawsuit against that prime thing. Or was it there? I'm not sure if it was on the shipping. However, shipping's a part of it that you pay for two day shipping, but you're lucky if you see it in about, in a week, which is actually a normal state of shipping. Now the issue is positioning in people's head around shipping times has been altered so greatly by Amazon that when your shipping is actually a normal five to seven, seven days, people are like, where was this? Would it get lost in the abyss? Why didn't I. Yeah, it was so funny.

[Corey]

I ordered something like a body oil or lotion something yesterday and it was like, huh, I don't know, we'll just see. It was supposed to like add probiotics to your skin or whatever. I just saw a video and it caught me and I, when I got to the shipping, it said five to 10 business days. And I was like, wow, I'll never get this. I'll be old by the time I get it.

[Heather]

Same with free shipping. Because prime makes you feel like shipping's free. Yeah, sure, it's probably baked into the price, but it makes you feel that way. And now when shipping is paid, I'm like, oh.

[Corey]

But their messaging was for the longest time get it in two days or less. And because they had to, I don't know, stop that or it's not guaranteed anymore, they've lost a lot of the foothold and now people are like, oh, Amazon, even though they could have given you 200 items in 200 day, in two days, in 2 million days they earned for course kid German that they switched it up. Now you have an adverse positioning in your brain about Amazon shipping because they have changed it.

[Heather]

The buzzword for the opposite of positioning is depositioning. You would deposition your, your competitors while you position yourself, but it's almost like Amazon has depositioned itself against itself. So we were always like two day shipping. This is so great. And then we're like, oh, it's five days, I'll go somewhere else. At this point I have access to anything. So there's types of positioning as you kind of think through this. And we'll end up on the positioning formula which I already forced Corey to work through earlier today. She said this is good for people. Type submission price based positioning emphasizing high quality and affordable cost. That was from a Google search. But Quince fits right in there. High quality, lower cost.

[Corey]

And I will say it's a little bit harder in a baking realm. High quality, low cost. Because we know high quality means extra time. So you know, Quince may have the stuff in storage ready to roll and they can pull it off the shelf, send it to you. Whereas we think bakers, you know what, fast, you know, good, fast, cheap. Choose two of the three.

[Heather]

Which one? No, here's the thing. Quince, I believe one of their ads told me what they made off the sale of the purchase because they said radical transparency. They really like the radical world word. So they still said, we will make a profit off you, but here's how much that is like interesting. Interesting transparency but awesome trust building because I know everyone's got to get theirs. But they're like, but we're not getting, we're not paying. Then they're like, because we eliminate the middleman.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So kind of a concept there too. You could be price based, of course. Say I don't want to, I don't want to argue on price, but she wants to argue on a quality positioning, which is the next one. Quality or premium positioning highlighting superior craftsmanship or luxury to justify high costs. And their example is Apple. So Apple's like, hey, it ain't cheap, but it's great. Yeah, yeah, it ain't cheap but you're going to be able to zoom in on the surface of the moon. But you always see now the positioning is that Apple cameras are better than Android. And then the Android people are like, ours are fine and we don't need yours. Get your overpriced crap away from me, you know. Yeah.

[Corey]

But the number one purchased phone brand is Apple.

[Heather]

My mom has always had a Mac computer. I cannot help her with it. I've never had a Mac computer. I don't have an iPhone. I literally all I'm doing is googling what they could Google if they had their own problem.

[Corey]

We like when your hands Google it.

[Heather]

Do I type it better than you? So she wanted to switch, she said head I want to switch to Microsoft, Dell, Windows. She wanted to a Windows computer. So but I was super nervous because I was like I'm a huge fan of Dell computers but I'm not sure if you will think it's the same quality. So every week I go and I say how do you like the new computer? I love it. Yeah, right. So so now you can see that Apple was seen as like Dell's trash or all these other ones are trash. And then now you can kind of see the market share shifting a little bit. Android technology is catching up. You have the Google technology on their phones which everyone is a huge fan of and now Apple has kind of felt stagnant.

[Corey]

Well Apple, if they say extended battery life on a new phone one more gosh darn time and that phone does not extend for the rest of its life, stop baking it at sales point.

[Heather]

But for a long time Apple's entire positioning that it was just a higher quality product which I'd agree with up until now but even then it's still in my head that it's probably a nicer phone. I got it. You're not going to see me fighting for the reputation of Android Apple version. But I think quality and premium positioning. But Corey said she's like well I wouldn't want to fight on price based but you actually do because you say that our cookie classes are a lot cheaper than down the street. Different.

[Corey]

Different because there's a different, you know, time in prepping a class is a different thing than bending over the same custom set for two hours. So I will say classes, yes. Customs no, no.

[Heather]

But in your pre sale you said I baked in a loss leader a smaller cookie that you thought people would be interested in because it was cheaper,

[Corey]

priced cheaper priced easier design.

[Heather]

So it's just interesting that you can have and remember positioning is delegated to a target audience. You can have multiple list, you know, target segmentations in there. So I'm never going to buy jewelry or purses from Quince. I just don't need it. I'm not huge into jewelry. So they don't need to worry about what that positioning is for me.

[Corey]

Yeah, sure. Because you're not there. Think of the grocery stores. If you're unfamiliar with Whole Foods. Whole Foods has. You'll never guess Whole Foods. It's more of a organic, natural, not. You're not going to find like a Coca Cola product there because you're not finding ranch dressing.

[Heather]

Even if you want to find this.

[Corey]

Because what they're doing is leaning towards the segment of the audience who wants Whole Foods in their diet. So if you like Coca Cola, you are no longer in Whole Foods value proposition. They, they don't want you. They are now competing with people who might go to a Trader Joe's or a Wegmans. And how can they get you into Whole Foods? Because we know Wegmans does natural food dyes now. So they kind of are trying to edge into Whole Foods. So what is going to make Whole Foods? They are pricier, but you can find.

[Heather]

No, when I go to Whole Foods, I do, I do call it positioned. I do believe it's food. It's fresher. I don't know.

[Corey]

It lasts.

[Heather]

The peppers last longer in the fridge. When I go to the Whole Foods they just built in the Springfield, Virginia. It's their like newest one. As soon as you walk in, you're met with way too much fruit at the front door. Right to your left is way too close to the front door. Flowers. Fresh flowers. Yeah. And then oddly, right in the walkway, where you wouldn't want to be is all these soap bars. They smell amazing. They're all natural soap bars. I'm not a soap bar girly. But I do stop and smell all those three things when I walk in the scream, this stuff is fresh.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

Right. If you had rotting food, Safe saveway, you'd put it off to the left in the back, you know. And if you had flowers that didn't turn over, you'd try to not put them up front.

[Corey]

But I think Home Foods is like,

[Heather]

listen, we're going to show you just how fresh this is by positioning literally physically these things that the front. You can see that the rest of the store will follow this. Yeah.

[Corey]

So you're going to see as you think about your bakery's positioning, you might be heavy into using an eddy printed cookie. And then maybe your positioning can be either fast turnaround or cheaper price depending on how you build that. If you're more of a customs focused person, you could have a position that you do higher end designs for weddings and things like that. Do you see how we're now shrinking but we're pinpointing who we're talking to.

[Heather]

Exactly. Because you find I think it would be hard to have the same positioning to a wedding cake client and a smash cake client. Great to serve to friends or shove your face into it fistfuls in your hand. If your husband jumping in every kid shoving it in. Application and use positioning associating a product with a specific frequent usage scenario. You have any ideas?

[Corey]

Say that one more time.

[Heather]

So application or use positioning associating a product with specific frequent usage scenario one that red light therapy. Any skin care brand. It's really saying Olaplex. I was listening to kind of a rise and fall of Olaplex. Yeah Olaplex isn't that old but it's technology around Bond. You know Bond.

[Corey]

You know what? Because they didn't explain it. They did not explain it.

[Heather]

They said the lawsuit that Olaplex caused balding. The lawsuit was thrown out. They had no merit. But it caused such a depositioning in the market because here I am buying this crown, this overpriced shampoo so I can get more hair and you're telling me I risk losing it all.

[Corey]

There was a seven step program that. No, you were big in the Olaplex because. But then I'm like why do I have this this what do these do and where do I use them? At what point in this thing There was no knowledge based behind it. So I, I wanted to be a believer and then I'm left with these weird products and I know how to use shampoo because that was drilled into me from a young age. But how do I use the Oil Bonder 5000?

[Heather]

You know what I use today? The Oil Bonder 5000. You gave me your cast off and

[Corey]

now I don't buy Olaplex anymore. Right.

[Heather]

And nobody does. Their IPO was one of it was valued at something billion dollars and now it' seen at 90% market share loss or something with the documentary that's my twin elect guys if you wanted to hear it there. But positioning so associating PR when Olaplex kind of, I hate to say it kind of aligned with like TikTok or something wherever all these UGC creators like look at my hair, it's so strong. And I'm like give me more. Who doesn't want nice full strong hair?

[Corey]

Sign me up.

[Heather]

Get it away from me. I want the BAL spot user group positioning tailored a tailoring a brand specifically for defined demographic or interest group. So it said like Johnson and Johnson, you think baby powder.

[Corey]

Right.

[Heather]

Baby products. When. When you say that's a great position because I don't have a kid. But I would say like Johnson and Johnson. If I said coffee, what do you think of starbs?

[Corey]

I guess.

[Heather]

Right. So. And. But now you see people want to take Starbucks market share by saying, well, we're different. I was, I was reading that. Just a quick like documentary on coffee shops and why they went to that industrial look.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Initially is because they couldn't afford it. So an industrial is an unfinished area.

[Corey]

It is, yeah. It's ceiling up there.

[Heather]

But they said then it became kind of the trend. So you were the best coffee shop if you were an industrial. And then it went from that being cheap to that being expensive. So now they've gone to. They said. Then they went to this super clean white space, like two. Two. You know, and it felt like, woo. Then they said, now they want this, like Fusion. And he was referencing some coffee shop that started that's in a surf shop shop where community is built over coffee rather than this. Like my Weta, my custom Weta.

[Corey]

So just I need any sweet frog to find a partner in one cleaning product.

[Heather]

Sweet frogs.

[Corey]

I need the yogurt to not. Do you want.

[Heather]

Do you want overpriced yogurt? But you, you get to pick your own taverns.

[Corey]

Do you want to sit next to someone's old yogurt on the wall while you.

[Heather]

Do you want to know where Covid started? Isn't a safe route, I think because. And that's the issue with franchising. And if you ever want to go down the pipeline of Panera franchising and how they had to buy it all back.

[Corey]

Dairy Queen franchise.

[Heather]

Dairy Queen franchising. IHOP franchising.

[Corey]

Oh, yeah. No, yeah.

[Heather]

No. This is just interesting that at one point these places were ihop, the International House of Pancakes. If you said pancakes, you went to ihop.

[Corey]

And now we're like, now Nate took me to IHOP last weekend. He was like, which one you go to? I said the good one. Like, because there's a good one in the back.

[Heather]

Bad one. The bad one is the secret one. It used to be a good one. Okay. And then the last one is competitive positioning. And this is the one where you can directly compare product to the benefits products benefits the rivals and higher superiority. And Quince is doing that in those ads where it's now facing a lawsuit because it said, west Elm, we're cheaper than them. Look at this product. It's the same we just bought it from the same place. Yeah, but that, that did motivate me because I, not our older sister, does not want to deal. That girl loves to pay full price. She was like, do you want some of my furniture? And I said yes, knowing it'll be high quality furniture. Cast.

[Corey]

Yeah, no, you're not going to get it. But that's the type of person she is. She's a buyer that doesn't want to question anything. But if it doesn't have a name brand, she thinks the quality is now at risk.

[Heather]

So somewhere along her line is that higher quality and higher price are very correlated and there's no compromise there.

[Corey]

When you're now as a baker thinking about this and you're like, there are bakers who come through who start up and they think they can be the better priced baker. It is what everyone has to go through. You find that when you price your stuff cheaper, you get burnt out really fast because it's a time end game. We have just two hands in 24 hours. And the sets are difficult, the colors, the lettering. So you can see that a lot of bakers will try to come out and break through and say, I'm the best priced baker. That's my positioning. I'm the better priced baker. I'm cheaper, I'm better. And it always kind of the industry does level it out out there because you can only be so cheaper before everyone's booking with you. And now you're burnt out and you're not seeing the benefits of taking all these orders because you're so tired.

[Heather]

Right. It's like the gas station by Ruthanne's house. If I posted in the Northern Virginia subreddit and I said, where's the cheapest gas? I'll almost admit to you, about 60% of people would say that gas station. But it's a horrible experience.

[Corey]

It's horrendous in all regards in every regard.

[Heather]

It's the worst except for its price. So you see that the compromise of price was everything else about getting gas. Whereas if I said great convenience store, I'd say sheets, but I know I'm paying a premium. Yeah. But that I would never. Not even. It doesn't have a bathroom. But if it did, the cheap gas station, you'd never see me touching. Oh, you never see me there. The handles are disgusting. So the handles of the gas pump are disgusting. Yeah. And yes, I do judge handle cleanliness. That place would have the worst bathroom in the world. But the cheap price would be there.

[Corey]

So you can see that it doesn't necessarily always work for the baker world to say cheaper pricing when you're making something that's handmade, custom made.

[Heather]

But here's the thing. Time Quince is like, we're not the cheapest. We're just slightly cheaper with uncompromising quality. And that's a position that's kind of hard to explain to your audience. And I wouldn't necessarily be as on the nose as Quince is about that. But you know, it's just out there. Like Corey and I, I think our quickie classes are very high quality. However, we're still $30 cheaper than that next place.

[Corey]

Yeah. But then we are also more expensive than somebody else down the road, so.

[Heather]

Absolutely. So there, there's some. You can see that we're cheaper, but we're not the cheapest. So I think there's some elbow room there. A positioning formula and I had Corey work through it. So she already stuttered through this. So that's why she's going to sound smooth. What is your target audience with your bakery?

[Corey]

Pretty much, I would say 90% is moms.

[Heather]

Moms at what age?

[Corey]

Moms probably around between 30 and 50. Buying for children.

[Heather]

Okay, okay. Or teens if they're in their 50s. The twin mom, I guess. Yeah, sure. Okay. Four moms between 30 and 50. Mixing bowl cooking company. Brand name is in the category which is Corey says cottage bakery. That the point of differentiation. What did you think your point of differentiation would be?

[Corey]

So this is hard because I don't think I've ever sat down and thought what differentiates me from the person down the road. But I think it's my ability to be flexible with whatever design event thing. So I can do high end stuff. I can do the fun stuff. I can do the weird stuff.

[Heather]

I do believe you are flexible in your own boundaries. On Booked.

[Corey]

I am having heard your grumblings. That's also confusing for my audience because I have a calendar that says booked. But then you. If you know me personally and get around my calendar and send me an email, I'm probably going to say yes to you.

[Heather]

So. Right. So flexibility in all aspects because. And what's their reason to believe? So it's for target audience. Brand name is the category that pointed differentiation because. And so let's put those in for you. So for moms in their 30s to 50s, Mixing Bowl Cookie Co. Is a cottage baker that is really flexible because I

[Corey]

have the flexibility in my schedule. I work from home. My kid is now a self licking ice cream cone. I don't have little ones, my husband's understanding. So I have the flexibility in my time.

[Heather]

Okay, that's for you. Now this one says the reason for them to believe because she can relate.

[Corey]

Never telling them no. I'm never saying no.

[Heather]

So Corey's the hand heard. No. Cottage baker.

[Corey]

I. I'm gonna squeak out some sort of yes. It might not be the yes you wanted, but it'll be the yes you get when.

[Heather]

And I think another way to kind of reverse engineer this if you're struggling through it. So let me just go through it one more time for. Insert your target audience here. So Corey said her target audience for this positioning is moms between 30 and 50 years old. Right. With kids. Brand name Corey Mexican Cookie company is the category cottage baker. That point of differentiation is really flexible because she has the ability to work around her client schedules. So do you think this is the reverse engineering? What do you think your client, who is a 30 year old mom thinks of you? What do you think that mental real estate is for them? When I tell them I see bowl

[Corey]

Cookie company, I do not think they think flexibility.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Corey]

Because I don't use that in any form of my marketing. It's almost a secret. So I think they just think really consistent designs. So I don't think I have a really money maker positioning. My bad.

[Heather]

Muddled.

[Corey]

Muddled. Muddled for sure. I'm not known as the last minute baker anymore, but I started my business off as that to really kind of grow it. Consistent designs. But there's a lot of bakers who do consistent designs.

[Heather]

Okay. So we're not very differentiated.

[Corey]

Yeah. So I would say that's, that's a point that I need to work on. Because what was funny is I did a pre sale this weekend and the people who came in for my pre sale, three of them said, you're just so witty on your Facebook page. I appreciate that.

[Heather]

Three people of them, Three of them think that you are, are conversational, you're entertaining.

[Corey]

So I thought maybe approachable. Approachable would be a good way. But is that to me, is that a strong positioning?

[Heather]

Do you think you would be more apt to buy from a company that was friendlier than not?

[Corey]

Yes, for me personally, yeah.

[Heather]

Okay, so then it is a positioning.

[Corey]

I just always think it's a strong. A strong one.

[Heather]

One.

[Corey]

A strong one.

[Heather]

So how could you firm up that positioning in the rest of your market? If I want to be positioned as the approachable, friendly baker, what would need to change in my marketing, My branding, my marketing, my value proposition?

[Corey]

I Think if I, if that was my position to become approachable, more approachable, I think I would really have to nail down my return responses, make sure that my form is very educational so that when you leave the form, there's no question in there.

[Heather]

I think putting your face in more videos, you're right, you're correct.

[Corey]

Getting my face out there, more relationship. So you know what to expect and who to expect it from.

[Heather]

Let's do it for sugar cookie marketing. So I would say for bakers who have switched over to a monetization, so bakers who sell, sell target items. Sugar cookie marketing is the Facebook group. I'm going to put us in that category that has no nonsense marketing for the baker who needs an efficient, effective answer.

[Corey]

I, I agree with that. I think that is the positioning there.

[Heather]

I think the depositioning is people are like, they're too strict and they delete everything. But I think in exchange, you're not bullied. You don't have to worry. You can post something and not be afraid that someone's going to call you dumb or use a laugh reaction.

[Corey]

Well, just like, you know, with Whole Foods, you know, if I want a Coca Cola, I'm not going to be able to go to Whole Foods to get it. Sugar cookie marketing, if you want to complain about clients, you're not going to be able to go there and get that. But what you are going to be getting from Whole Foods is something with not no GMO and no artificial flavors. And what you're going to get from sugar cookie marketing is a direct answer to the question that you have at hand.

[Heather]

So it is okay to lose people? Oh, yes.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

That's the whole point is you can, you know, if you appeal to everybody, you appeal to nobody. If your friends, to all your friends to them. That's the whole thing. Right. If I'm everything to everyone, I'm actually nothing to anyone because they don't. There's no way that can be true. So there's something you're hiding. And nobody likes to purchase or befriend a distrustful person. So when you say, okay, I'm going to niche it down, which we always say niche thrice, name your price. Right. So you're going to niche it down. And within that niche, I'm going to be very consistent in my product offering. People know exactly what to expect. Yeah. So you see that somebody's like, hey, where can I find this cutter? You know that one comment right there and the comments are off, is going to say, hey, can you go asset in baking with sugar cookie marketing. Why? Because the audience we targeted years ago said can we not have a group that does everything and as such does nothing?

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So can it just be about marketing, sales, business, packaging, printing strategy? Can it not be about cookie cutters, icing, mixing, butterblade? So we said okay. And that niched it down. And now to honor that differentiation, it's a very strict policy. Think it's like a rude policy, but it's like, hey, let's keep this on target so that people when, when they come here, they, they get their answer. Yeah.

[Corey]

What's so funny about positioning is I've positioned myself. I, I enjoy birthday orders. I enjoy the themes that are surround birthday orders. I enjoy the fun colors of birthday orders. So I get a lot of birthday orders and in showcase in my marketing I showcase a lot of birthday orders. But now I feel like if I was trying to be like, well, I never get wedding orders anymore. I have pigeonholed myself by one. Always showcasing birthday orders, by always doing birthday orders, by posting about birthday orders, People will bypass me for wedding orders because it's not something I position myself. It's not the first thing they think of. When someone says I am having a wedding shower and I need a baker for it. They're zooming right over me because I've just been posting friends of. So you see how your marketing can affect your positioning to your clients. Because if I really wanted to change it, let's say I want to change and I want to be the wedding baker for northern Virginia. I would have to stop posting in positioning to people that I like birthday orders.

[Heather]

Well, Corey should go then sign up for wedding venues. You know the wedding. What do you call them when you go to and it's like a convention and you sell your wear. Vendors. Vendors events. Yeah, like a vendor event. Corey should go to a wedding vendor event. Her cover photo, her marketing should put push wedding content. And then she should see how many brides she can get to leave reviews or how she can get in there or strategic partnerships with photographers who do wedding photography or people who do floral for the weddings. That's how I would do that. And then I'd have a profile on the knot. My website would be very wedding focused. My colors, my branding would tend more towards the white rights.

[Corey]

Yeah, you have a lot of bakers like me who if you order a wedding set, I'll take the wedding set. If you order the birthday, I'll do the birthday anniversary. I'm going to say yes to everything because at the End of the day, as we like to say, money is money. So you'll have to figure out what is now your. Since you are a jack of all trades, what is your positioning to your audience that you know what is going to make them come to what comes to mind when they think of you? If you say yes to everything. If you are a jack of all trades trades. A lot of bakers can focus on last minute orders. Maybe because they're newer, they aren't as well established and they can be the last minute, last order taker baker. That rhymed. And that's how I started mine and I was the last order taker baker. And then as I filled up I, I hit ahead where I had to turn people away and they're like, oh, I thought she was an order taker. Do you see where people are like whoa, I thought Amazon was two day shipping and they're not.

[Heather]

Not Positioning is always a pain point because you're trying to, you have so much mental real estate that you're trying to shift over to a completely different thing. And I think it's, it's just what happens nature of competition when somebody is cheaper and faster and more last minute than you. It's not a place that you can even always say marketing is never stagnant. If something goes up, something also must go down.

[Corey]

Yeah, there's a local baker to us here. She's super nice. She moved her business and changed her business to only making mini cookies. So she only does minis. She'll do them in any theme that you want to, but she only makes minis. So that was her. If you wanted something small, a sweet treat to accentuate something bigger, she was your go to baker and I thought that was pretty genius to do it that way. So now her price is cheaper because they're smaller cookies.

[Heather]

Smart though. If somebody's like, hey, I'm not here for a good time, I'm here for a good time now, for a long time. If I'm here for a gift and I don't really care the size, yeah, that would be a very price conscious. I would do. So the way to think about this entire podcast is what do your clients think about you? Focus girl. So what do your clients think? Again, we can't con we mind control hasn't been delved out to the masses yet. So if I can't control their minds, what are they likely thinking? Remember I was late to that meeting three times, but I was forever known as the late person. Darn. It took me 15 non lights actually took me 15 earlies to get that out of her head.

[Corey]

Yeah, that's. That's what's crazy. So you gotta wonder. And it's something we might not ever know the answer to. Because, you know, unless you're super tummy tummy with your clients, you can't be like, hey, what do you think when you think about me? You know, but it's something you can control on your end because do you promise them that, you know, the cookies are fresh and then you're giving them fresh cookies? Okay. Probably in their brain. You're a fresh cookie baker.

[Heather]

Yeah. In our family, your positioning is don't approach Corey with cookie orders. She wants to take what she wants, so don't ask.

[Corey]

And I've been trying to deposition that and say there's a form everybody has to fill out.

[Heather]

I have placed in the order. I control the form. I'll squeeze mine in to get to that real estate lady.

[Corey]

And yes. And there is a form.

[Heather]

Just kidding. So it's just interesting to see what the minds of your clients think about you. We can say, here's the branding, here's the messaging. Here's the value proposition. Here's all these buzzwords. Here's the top list. Segmentation. But what do they think about you? Because that dictates a lot. And if you want. If you're like, well, I don't know that they think anything. Okay, what do you want them to think? And what would shift in all of those other things to make that the messaging?

[Corey]

I know. And that's. I even think that's something for me to even consider. Even though I love marketing and marketing is the funnest part of the business for me, I don't know my customers necessarily can. Like, if I asked five different ones, I don't know what five of the different things would say. Would three of them land on the same thing? Maybe. I hope she's approachable. She seems fun, she seems nice. She's consistent. And, you know, I can only hope that. But I don't know that I think

[Heather]

you say, I. I just really like making really cute designs. Really cute sets. And that little bluey one you sent me this morning was a very can. I think I would think naturally about that. Like, I feel like you're your talent. I know. Keep staying in the lines. The cleanliness of the clean designs. Clean designs. Yeah. And then the cute styling is probably what I would think about most friendly, approachable.

[Corey]

That's because you know me. And we argued before the podcast.

[Heather]

I was gonna say Something right. Just slipped my mind. Oh, yeah. Corey and I had said once last year, we want. When anybody, even if they took a break from baking for two years and they came back to the sugar cookie marketing group, even in their first click, I want them to be able to learn something.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I want them to be able to ask a question and get an answer or click a button and learn something new. So that was our positioning, is that it's consistent marketing content over a long period of time. Yeah.

[Corey]

So you're going to be able to find maybe a post where we do a How much do you charge for this? And you're able to scroll through and be like, oh, I think I'm undercharging for a Paint your own palette and cookie. So that's something that you can learn.

[Heather]

So.

[Corey]

So no matter what you do, you're going to be able to come in, come out, and you're going to always be like, I can always go to SEM for either a quality answer or to learn where the market, the industry is going. And I think you've done a very good job for that.

[Heather]

Well, thank you. You have done great job as well.

[Corey]

Patting you on 2001. Yeah.

[Heather]

I think the podcast being around for five years and almost every topic has been about marketing is staying consistent with how I want people to think of sugar cookie marketing in their head. Every newsletter has a marketing topic. Every. Not every post. Sometimes I make them funny. But that's to increase engagement so that when you ask your question, you get more of an answer from a larger group of people that are engaged in the group. And then I hope the third differentiator that you think is. And then no one will be mean to me. Yeah.

[Corey]

Yeah. I like when people say this nicest corner on the Internet. That really tells me by force. Yeah.

[Heather]

Nicer else.

[Corey]

So as you're a baker listening to this podcast, you're going to want to ask yourself, and if you don't know the answer, you're like me. Thank you. We're together in this. What is the. What are people thinking about you and your business? Is there something that is drawing people to you? Do you have nice bathrooms in your gas station? Are you really nice when people ask

[Heather]

for a chicken sandwich, Are you very consistently open? There's positioning where I'd say, well, I'm just not sure that they're taking orders right now. They take big. It's hard to. Big breaks is the equivalent of me being late to that meeting a few times where I'm like, yeah, where you're not.

[Corey]

Now people are second guessing.

[Heather]

I don't know.

[Corey]

She took my order to last year. I don't know if she's still doing it.

[Heather]

Yeah, yeah. So think of the way that you interface with your clients. If you're very like self centered, if you're very like me, egotistical, it's going to be harder to see outside of yourself because you're like, I'm the best, of course they want to come to me. But try to put the other shoe on and see how you interface. Where are the averages of the emails you're getting from clients? What are the average of the reviews you're seeing? Are you seeing very few reviews? Then maybe there is a little gap in the market there, right. The, the egotistical market. Maybe there's something, a blind spot that you're not seeing. So reverse engineer that. See what you think your clients think of you. Maybe pull some, some distant friends that are willing to give it to you straight but also aren't.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah. It's something for me to think about. And since Heather's thought about it, I'm like, h, am I just a blase person? This year I've told Heather in my own marketing, I've been been trying to build relationships first and to build a relationship they have to know me. And that's something I'm not technically good at because I'm more of a private person. I like to put things out there. But man, I have been pushing my boundaries.

[Heather]

If you listen to last week's podcast, which is posting do's and donuts, we went through Corey's highest performing posts in the February, I think that was when you were testing some posting content types. And that most highest performing bucket was relationship market marketing.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Yeah. So Corey said, well, I'm really private. Well, your positioning is probably not that you are a wide open, personable person. And now you're trying to shift that and that's going to take time in, consistency, time in.

[Corey]

And it's so funny. It was. I saw someone comment to someone else, hey, thanks for recommending mixing bowl. And then the lady says, did you know she's an Leo wife? And I was like, oh, that's so funny. That was something I typically don't, you know, ever push, say my husband's, you know, in law enforcement. But it was a way that she associated me with cookies and was able to recognize recommend me.

[Heather]

I like it. So again, think of positioning this week. Just think of the position. If you don't want to think about your own Positioning. Because it feels a little like, I don't know, that was a little pie in the sky girls. I don't really know think of where you order things. Why do you pick Papa John's over Pizza Hut? Better ingredients, better pizza. Bob Jones. Right. Why do you, why did you pick that gas station? Are you more price driven? Gas is expensive. That gas station is on my mind.

[Corey]

Is it the location? A lot of the this, you know, especially for where we are, we choose things because based on location. I know a lot of people choose me just because of the area I am at. I, I try to hock my wares in a, in a group of hay market people. And it's about 40 minutes down the road and she's like, yeah, that's too far. Like so location was big for her.

[Heather]

Right. You know, if, if you're allowed to deliver delivery could allow you to be. Positioning is like, hey, this baker is really flexible because they're willing to show up to my job.

[Corey]

Job which I think bakers who take under the amount of a. Like a lot of bakers require two dozen. If you were to able to take orders less than two dozen. I know I do one dozen or up. But it's some people that take even fewer than that half dozen. You could get clients just because of the fact that you offer smaller scale.

[Heather]

So then the positioning in your client's head would be this person is flexible on order totals. Yeah. Right. So just something like it's just another component of marketing. To think it as a whole umbrella. If we just focused on branding. Branding, branding, branding. But nobody saw it. What's the point of branding if we just focused on customer service customers, but you have a crappy product, nobody's buying it. We don't need customer service. Right. If we just focus. But positioning I think is kind of that equal sign if all of these components are added together equals. What do my clients think about me? I think it's kind of that last thing that can go back and realign the other components of it. Make sense. Yeah.

[Corey]

And I think being true with yourself on this, a lot of us going to be like a really tasty cookie. I've never met a baker who said my cookies taste disgusting, but they look cute like. So being honest with yourself is going to be a huge part of knowing if what you're doing is working. If you're like, I create a consistent product every single time. Like that is a generic form. And I see a lot of bakers spit that out. But can you say like through the Entire process, I'm consistent.

[Heather]

A better question, can you get your clients to think that you're consistent? The key of positioning is client mental. Real estate, consumer real estate. What do they think? You can tell me all day long. Quince can tell me we're better, faster, stronger, cheaper. But if I do not think that, then they didn't position correctly.

[Corey]

Correct. Something for us to think about.

[Heather]

Corey said. I'll be taking this into my week.

[Corey]

I shall, I shall, I shall.

[Heather]

Moving on, we have the pre sale Cookie College boot camp is coming now. Corey has assigned me my roles in this. You have me writing templates for email follow up because pre sales are based on selling the product before you bake in. So you'll bake one, you'll shop it around to your audience. You'll sell X number whether you want to set that or have it to be an endless thing. But the reminders of getting people to show up at this pickup date are integral in a successful pre sale. And we'll talk about building the form she's got me assigned to and then we'll talk about follow up marketing through email. And then may add a a messaging component, an SEM component there.

[Corey]

Nice. Nice.

[Heather]

So that will drop April 1st through 3rd. Now you can purchase it. Right now it's 13. You can go to thecookiecollege.com all the enroll now buttons will take you to that course. You can purchase it today and you don't have to worry about it. And on April 1st we'll send you an email that the course has dropped. You can join the private Facebook group and then you get that 13 discount code to sign up for the cookie college which just gets you all your money back. But that code, the 13 discount last forever for as long as your membership is active. So if you want to nail pre sales but you're like, oh, I really wish I got those other two boot camps. We dropped just in person cookie classes. And then you did photography. This is our third one pre sales. If you sign up for this and then join the cookie college, you can get those past pre sales. That said now now on the cookie college website you can purchase those past boot camps individually.

[Corey]

You said past presales.

[Heather]

I know I said in my ass. Did I say past presales? Did I just muddle my message?

[Corey]

You muddled the message. Did I just deposition myself? You have depositioned yourself as a smart twin to the dumb twin.

[Heather]

So April pre sales is April 1st. That's in 15 days. May. I'm doing a 3D printing course from start to finish. We'll go to bamboo.com together. We'll order ourselves the right printer. I'll tell you everything you need to order to get started the cheapest way possible. And then through the. That course, which will be. Then we'll make the design a cookie cutter. We'll purchase an STL, and then we'll also use Fusion 360 to make a bridge.

[Corey]

I will say Heather came in handsy. I had a 3D printer emergency this week.

[Heather]

All right, First I got. First I got a Snapchat video. And I'm saying, we got a problem. We get problem. She's like, the filament said, it's not loaded into the spool or the print head or whatever.

[Corey]

Yeah, extruder, extruder.

[Heather]

So I said, we got to do this through a phone call. I can have to do it in these single photos. And then we got it. So what it had. What had happened was her filament got too moisturized. Moisturized filament. PLA doesn't like moisture, and it causes it to splinter. And it's so funny, if you go to these 3D printing subreddits or Facebook groups, you'll see that when the moisture has fully. Like, people have left a roll not, you know, stored correctly, and they've just left it out to the elements. And you open it, and it'll just be shattered pieces of filament. Unusable.

[Corey]

Here's the thing, but it's on. It's the machine right now. How am I going to store that differently? It's ready to go for a print.

[Heather]

Which is the difference is these ones that come in the casings, you can actually have it dehydrate your filament. You can press a button and put your rolls in there, and it'll kind of suck it. I keep it. What do you know, those little. I don't want to say it's called decanters, but like. Like those pockets of pearls. Yes. Little things that come in here.

[Corey]

Absorb.

[Heather]

Yeah, yeah. When you buy the AMS add on, you can put the four in there. You can shove those. They have places for you to put those to keep moisture out of your rolls. So essentially, after you're done, you should be storing your roll.

[Corey]

Wait, you're supposed to unhook the filament when you're done?

[Heather]

Yeah. They have filament storage containers and everything.

[Corey]

So you have to squeeze that up the tube every single time.

[Heather]

It's a single button to press in a bamboo printer. But, yes, you would Just say mine

[Corey]

had to shove it up the tube till he swampled it all the way. And then he was ready because he was just broken.

[Heather]

But you would just, you know, just wind it backwards and it would just. The automated one winds itself back up. Don't know what you guys are doing. But in that 3D printing course, we will, we will set up a bamboo printer. I set one up for Corey. She's been printing feverishly.

[Corey]

Feverishly.

[Heather]

And then we will load a filament into the extruder head and warm up the heat bed.

[Corey]

Yeah. When that thing starts, started printing and nothing was squeezing out, always a little panic. Shoot. I said I might have to throw the whole thing away.

[Heather]

And I get a desperate call from Gore saying, hey, can I get out? I was like, she must need this cutter a lot. Yeah.

[Corey]

I was like, I. The lady was coming over to see what the cutter was because she ordered a custom design behind against my better judgment. And I was like, well, shoot, she's coming over and I don't even have it. And like barely even. And squ out some squishiness.

[Heather]

Yeah. With these bamboos. And I, I, my prints are perfect. I haven't had to deal with this. But you can do a, like a step loss. Like if it stops mid print. Cause there's an issue, you can tell it. Hey, pick up where you left off, bud.

[Corey]

Oh, funny, funny. Ender.

[Heather]

Ender could never. Ender could never. So that of course will be in seven weeks. That'll be on May 7th. So we're trying to keep them to the first week of each month in the last two or three days. So April 1st, pre sales. May 7th is 3D printing. And Corey and I are arguing over June. Yep. Yeah, well, but if you missed a past boot camp, you can now purchase that. The only thing that doesn't come with it is the cookie college discount code which expires. But just sign up for a new boot camp. You can grab that code and join us and never have to pay for another boot camp again.

[Corey]

What I can't wait to hear is as these boot camps go. So I've done the food one. I'm doing the pre sale one. Heather's did he did the food 1. The food Photography one. We kind of did the cookie classes together. But you took the head on that one. And then you'll take the head on the 3D printing. I wonder who's going to be the people's favorite teacher. Like teaching.

[Heather]

Choosing your favorite twin teaching styles, what

[Corey]

they like the most. I unfortunately have Even over an explainer.

[Heather]

Well, unfortunately, well unfair to you, to me is that I am your camera holder and you're not mine.

[Corey]

No, you could put that on a tripod and stand with me if you wanted to. Baby girl, Girl, Baby girl.

[Heather]

Are you gonna edit it?

[Corey]

Baby girl.

[Heather]

So if you guys want to check out these boot camps, go to TheCookieCollege.com I think they're really nicely set up worksheets. You get, you get the modules that are pre recorded. You get the launch Facebook live and the closing live Q A and then you're able to re watch those now, no expiration.

[Corey]

I think the best part of the boot camp it's being taught by people who are actually doing the thing. So classes got a class coming up even on April 4th. Pre sales. Been doing them consistently since November.

[Heather]

3D printing. I taught 3D printing to my friend.

[Corey]

So I think it that's the differentiator, the value positioning is the twins are actually doing it as they're teaching you. So it's not just one thing I did five years ago. And I'm trying to remember back because the markets are always changing.

[Heather]

There's more bakers, technology is changing.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Heather]

What worked in 3D printing five years ago? Thank goodness. Doesn't work now. Than goodness. Okay, moving on to the gossip column. I'm going to read this again completely anonymous if you want to message in the gossip column. I pinned it in the cookie sugar cookie marketing group but I could refresh it. I think I'll add it to the website here soon. I had my pre sale this weekend for St. Patrick's Day and I swear I counted. But when I did my final count I must have gotten lazy. A lady ordered five cookie cards. They were $3 each and I only included four in her bag. Thank goodness her husband counted in the car because I had the extra. I just thought I had over baked so I was able to slip it into his bag and apologize. He then went back through the entire bag because he wanted to really make sure everything was in there. I don't blame him and I felt so bad. Like the cookie thief. Though I had had all the supplies in my fridge Anyways, keeping in the SEM in the back of my mind I emailed the wife who had placed the order and I apologized about the issue. Told her the crisis was averted but offered her a discount on a future presale order if I I was quote unquote lucky, pun enough to be able to earn her business again if it was a big deal to him. I knew he could possibly make it a big deal to her. When he was retelling the story, she sent the nicest email back and said she looked forward to ordering again and loved the designs. I'm so glad I swallowed my pride and emailed her before he got home. I think I may have saved the relationship and hopefully have a future customer for my next pre sale. Not gossip, but I love a happy ending.

[Corey]

Dare I say that baker fixed the positioning that the husband could have overlaid to the wife. Wife.

[Heather]

So in my head her positioning was makes wrong things right quickly.

[Corey]

But if she had not, then it would been the husband's like, can you believe I drove all this way and

[Heather]

this lady was going to stiff me

[Corey]

on this cookie that you paid for?

[Heather]

I yeah, as a not husband myself, I would have been like, wifey, look, I saved the day and I been like this evil baker tried to ruin your day and I'm the savior now give me a smooch. That would have been me. So yeah, no, I like this thing in front of problems. It sucks though. I was reading in another group anonymously, I was reading and the baker had scheduled a pre sale pickup for a certain time. Like it was a wide range. It was like 12 to 7pm so the lady shows up at 12, but she was like, but I, but I didn't have her order baked yet, so. So she just asked her, just give me some time, just give me a few minutes, I get a bake. But the lady's like, I just want a refund. But she was like, but just give me for a minute. So she, the baker was like, I don't want to give her the refund because I did take the product.

[Corey]

I, I did happen upon this thing too. The baker thinks she was correct in saying that it was a 12:30 to 7:00 clock pickup. So your order would have been ready any time within there. But I know, but the customer said no. When you said 1237, everything was ready at 1230 and I have until 7 to pick it up.

[Heather]

How could you have translated that another way?

[Corey]

I honestly think the baker, I was having issues with the bake or whatever that the stuff wasn't rising correctly and it was throwing her off. So I think she was able to reposition it in her brain to say, you know, it was ready within the time frame 12:30 to 7. It just wasn't ready at 12:30. So that was a miscommunication. Miscommunication, not enough communication. And then she was Suffering for it because she didn't want to refund her. But the lady did not want the product anymore more.

[Heather]

And the lady had left. She literally went home, didn't follow up till the next day. Like, she never got the product either. That was a big key thing. I think sometimes when product exchanges hands, it blurs the line of like, I don't think they should get their money back. I was reading on Reddit yesterday, it was just wild. Of course, Reddit's anonymous and it's. It was in the subreddit for like legal advice. They had ordered from. I think it was like an Indian restaurant. This is again, not local to me. I don't know who these people are. They'd ordered this massive order. I think it was $4,500. And it involved all these meets. And then the owner calls and was like that person who took your order. They just help us sometimes, but didn't realize that this is actually a $20,000 order to. Instead of 4,500, we need you to come up to 7,500. But the person was like, no, because like, I wouldn't have bought it from you in the first place. And the event, so close now, you know, they had already paid. Everything was there. So the owner of the restaurant was like, okay, so they end up back at 4,500. But they alter the amount of food. So they cut out one of the, like, you know, it's those big legs of meat and then you can cut from. Yeah, they cut one of those out like the chicken one or something. But when he. They got the order, they had like the rice, the this, you know, those, you know, those silver pan things that you do when you eat. Like it had like one chicken leg in it. So like the, the, the owner of the restaurant had cut the entire order and only provided. But because this was the issue of the legal advice and why they're asking questions. They had to serve it because they needed to give these people something. But everyone had to leave the event early to go get more food. There was just enough food for 350 people.

[Corey]

Wow.

[Heather]

They said the legal thing is because they served the food, they no longer had legal recourse. Now it's like a civil suit or something.

[Corey]

But I say that you got to feed them some.

[Heather]

I know. So it's when that product exchanges hands. But in the example of the one that you and I were snooping on. Yeah. Is the product hadn't exchanged hands, so it would have been a full refund for me.

[Corey]

That's why the comment? The comments were divided. But why wouldn't you give a refund? She does not have the thing in her hand. And then somebody people are like, I see where you're coming from. And you should have, like, communicated that. But you did bake it for. And now you have like, whatever these two things sitting in your house that you're not gonna eat because you eat it all the time.

[Heather]

You know, here's what I would have done. Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry. Let me deliver to you as soon as it's done. Yeah, if I didn't want to refund, that would be the. That would have been the best choice of action.

[Corey]

What is that on your head?

[Heather]

You know, there's the air so dry up here. And then they're hills. I had to use a hair mask and I didn't use my drying clarifying shampoo. I'm really fighting a battle. So there's not a lot of product in my hair because I needed to see where the problem was. And then I use that Olaplex oil.

[Corey]

Do you see where your problem is? Where's your problem?

[Heather]

Drying?

[Corey]

Look how big your bump is. Now looking at the side view, you

[Heather]

have a bump it in there. There's no hair here.

[Corey]

It's a hole.

[Heather]

Sorry, guys. I'm fidgeting with my hair. Okay, so that is the gossip. And yeah, I guess Cory and I were reading our own gossips. We had the gossip of that one customer that lambasted the bakery. We thought kind of did the repair offered full refund, baked for the anniversary, just asked till Monday, even set expectation response. But that is a gossip column. Guas upcoming collapse. Okay, so the AI cookie collab is this Friday, which today is Tuesday. Yesterday I sent out my copy help templates and I had this thought. Some people, people, some people just hate AI and within your audience. So you may do this collab, which the positioning of this collab is, hey, when my customers send me AI, I can still incorporate it. Yeah, but you're going to have people who have positioned AI as evil in your comment section, and they're just going to lambast the fact that there's even an AI generated image. Right? So in the copy template help, I also help you to deposition. All we're going to do is say, thank you so much. I love the feedback. Great thoughts on this. Right. So we don't want to engage, we don't want to argue, and we don't want to validate because we don't want that comment section to turn into turf war.

[Corey]

You know what? I found a great A baker had posted. I don't think necessarily Eddie and printed cookies are controversial anymore, but she made a controversial statement on the thing, like a hot take. I don't think it's cheating when you use Eddie to help you print cookies. So the comments were both for Eddie and against Eddie. And on the comments that were against it, she wrote the best, most generic response. And I think that we should use that. If you experience that, that's fair, you

[Heather]

know, because it validates. What you have to kind of understand is people's projection is based on an experience that they had that we may not have had. If I live next to an AI data center and it was blowing that, I would hate it too. And I'd be in the comment section just hating on it. Right? Yeah. So that is unique to them. They're missing what this AI collab is. And it was taking this AI generated but bunny Easter bunny. And you recreate it within your skill set to say, hey, when you send me something that's almost impossible to pipe, here's how I can try to attempt to recreate that. Same with the whole, like, I don't do character cookies, but I do the likeness of. So it's kind of like that. So maybe like, I can't do this AI. A lot of that AI stuff is like, you know, stuff is float. Icing is floating. You know, we can't possibly do it. So we took this bunny and then you recreate it within your own skill set. So if you go through these. The. The event listing in the Sugar cookie marketing group, it's the top pin comment there. If you've registered, you'll get an email to as well. But it has copy templates with the caption is to kind of mitigate that whole, like, I hate AI argument.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Like, if you love it, if you hate it, I'm still receiving it as inspo and it does help me design your set. So here's how I can incorporate that.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Then I have some comment replies for if you get some AI hate AI.

[Corey]

Hey, that's fair.

[Heather]

Fair.

[Corey]

That's fair. I appreciate your opinion. Thanks for the comment.

[Heather]

And what you don't want to do is be like, I hate AI too. But you're doing a collab and what you also don't want to do is like, AI's great and you're just an idiot. It's just not the time or the place for that argument. And then you should be able to get a bunch of bakers who are participating saying, very cool. I like how you recreated. Yeah, yeah.

[Corey]

And that will kind of steer the comments in the way they need to go.

[Heather]

Now. Question. When you post, when you post on Friday, Cory sent me her pictures. Are you going to post a carousel of like yours? And I would. I would encourage people. And I wrote it in that template. Copy is like, I would definitely have the inspo photo there because that's kind of the point of it. Here's what I was sent. Here's what I can do. If you just say here's what I can do. I think we're kind of missing with that.

[Corey]

I was. I was thinking of making a collage. A collage and having it in the same photo together so you could see them one next to the other. So you kind of understood it versus just seeing an amazing eye photo and not clicking around to see what was next. So if you did a carousel, they'd have to scroll. You know, if you did a collage, it's one singular photo. So they would be able to imbibe what the concept was right then and there.

[Heather]

I guess the benefit of the carousel is that both images would take up the full screen. But the detractor of the carousel is it requires somebody to swipe. If you took the AI, generated one and wrote text on the image, it says swipe right to see how I. That's a decent idea. But I probably would do what Corey does and do a split screen in a single image. Here's the thing.

[Corey]

I have three exact cookies that I've done that someone has sent me AI for that I have translated into a cookie. So I thought I could do all three of those. So it kind of give them a little bit more to feast upon.

[Heather]

I would love to look at that personally. Okay.

[Corey]

Okay, I will. I will have to locate all that.

[Heather]

Thank you so much. I think one is a spaghetti boot.

[Corey]

Yeah, one is one. It's an owl.

[Heather]

And then we have this funny. So that AI cookie collab is in. Is in three days. It's on Friday at 11am Eastern Standard Time. You're going to post. You're going to use the hash SEM, collab, AI. It's going to be all one word. And then if you go to the event listing, I can help you with copy templates. I already got them pin there. You just fill in the information with your own. In April, on April 17, we have pipe a park collab. I like that one. You're going to pipe a flower cookie and take it to a local park and the copy that day when we have the collab is going to be telling your local audience about a park. I encourage people take that cookie and put it next to a part of the park that's identifiable, that your audience will be like, hey, I've been there.

[Corey]

Like the sign on your way in,

[Heather]

or the lake, or a statue that might be there, or if it's like rolling hills with horses. Something where people are like, I have been there. And I like to tell people I've been to this place. Yeah, so that one. And then May, we're going back to the main street. May we're going to do the main street collab because it is. Is the beginning of summer and I think it would be a high performer.

[Corey]

High performer. I want to say with the collab, we have a lot more people signed up for this AI collab. If they all show up, who knows? But if this is your first time doing it, we ask that people engage in the first hour. That's why it's important for you to set your alarm for 11:00am Eastern Standard Time, because that's when you're going to get the most juice, and that's when you're actually going to give the most juice. If you post at 8pm at night. I'm so sorry, you're missing the point of the collab. I.

[Heather]

You, you'll re.

[Corey]

You'll reap the benefits of it for

[Heather]

sure, but you reap the benefits from your audience. Yes.

[Corey]

You're going to miss the judge, the boost, the comments, and getting your post out in social media. So that's why I think the most when people come back to the group. My post didn't get a lot. You need to make sure you have the hashtag within the caption. You need to make sure that you're posting roughly near 11am Eastern Standard Time,

[Heather]

which you can schedule. So no excuses. Yes.

[Corey]

And I, I have been known to schedule mine and then I'll go in there and start commenting. I do have to refresh because Instagram is weirder now with hashtags than it used to be. So sometimes I'll have to refresh and go back into it. A safe way to do this is if they've commented on your post, you should go comment back on theirs because they are obviously finding you through the collab and that's a great way to go back and make sure you've checked all your boxes.

[Heather]

I like it. I like it. If you use AI in this clap, I will ban you from future claps because that would be the opposite of the point of this. The point of this is making AI into reality. Not using AI on AI. AI, AI.

[Corey]

We did say it was appropriate if you printed. Yeah.

[Heather]

If you had an edible print, which is a strategy. Remember all the collabs. To try to push marketing. So if you want to say, like, hey, while I can't really pipe this, we can print this. And you.

[Corey]

You could.

[Heather]

Because I see a lot of STL shops pushing.

[Corey]

I've actually had to turn a client down on a potential order. What she wanted was a astronaut flamingo. And I said, this is so cute. It is way too difficult for me to handpipe. So I might not be the better baker for you, but I have this option where it could print it. And that was a way to transform that.

[Heather]

So that's a. You did it. Because I've seen it.

[Corey]

Yeah. Yeah. She said yes. Thank you.

[Heather]

Very nice. Save the sale. Upcoming event. What's popping con is in four weeks. It's April 16th. You can use code TWIN for 25 off. Cookie con is in 14 weeks. I think they've already dropped the add on clauses as well. And thank gwed the vendy blendy is in 36 weeks. How dare you. How dare. Upcoming holidays. St. Patrick's Day. I see Cory's wearing green. Camp pinch. I did.

[Corey]

I did.

[Heather]

I don't own green. I checked my whole closet. Don't got it.

[Corey]

I. I wore it just in case because I had to go and give some cookies to my husband's coworker. But I saw his other co workers gonna pinch you. I said I didn't want to be at risk for a pinch if I didn't need to.

[Heather]

Yeah, well, I hated going to school and that we had to wear uniforms forms, so there was no grain. But I'm trying. And you couldn't wear wristbands either. So it was always like you weren't

[Corey]

allowed to wear colorful nail polish.

[Heather]

Yes. There was just wide open for the pinching.

[Corey]

We would. We would put a green line of marker on our.

[Heather]

Oh, yeah. April Fool's day is two weeks. Not a big seller. I might remove it from my countdown. Easter is in three weeks. It shows up on April 5 this year, so we should be knee deep in the east. What is. Are you doing Easter pre sale.

[Corey]

I have already started. Girl. The money is rolling in.

[Heather]

I did your link. Tree country Teacher appreciation Week. Kind of a decent seller for people at seven weeks away. Nurse appreciation Week. Not as much of a seller as it was the beginning of COVID when we were really Frontline, working it Mother's Day course is not a big seller. Other people beg to disagree. That's in eight weeks. So if you haven't ordered your cutters, now is the time. Unless you have a 3D printer, then you could just print. It's true.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather]

And then graduation asterisk different for different areas is in 12 weeks, which is another big school selling seller.

[Corey]

I already have my graduation orders rolling in.

[Heather]

Really? 12 weeks? Yeah, they're. They're.

[Corey]

I have two that came in. What's so funny was one lady was like, I see that your form isn't open for me. Can I make my order? And I said, yeah. At the time it wasn't open, but it or it had opened since then and someone took her week. But then yesterday she emailed like, okay, yeah, I want to take it, but I want to be like, girl, you I. February 15th is when I told

[Heather]

you, yes, sorry, girl, we're flexible and positioning here. You take that. You took the order to Ender.

[Corey]

I haven't responded.

[Heather]

She'll be taking the order and moving to the STM about it segment. If you text in at 571-55-65644, you could win a month of cookie design lab. I owe two people emails for the cookie design. I'm so sorry. I just remembered. I'll give do it.

[Corey]

You said it last week.

[Heather]

Woe is me. Forgiveth me because I have have send. However, Corey, we have three texts today.

[Corey]

I think last one I've chosen. I think I'll choose number three. I think the last two I've chosen

[Heather]

one and 2602 area code which I googled was Arizona. I have a question about customer service. I had an order that needed shipping allowed in my state. The customer ordered priority shipping, which wasn't cheap at all. I told her the expected delivery time and I added that there wasn't much I could do to control FedEx other than dropping off the box. Weather does what weather does. And I assumed it was a cause of the package delay. Of course, the box arrives after the party, which the cookies are branded for the party, so there's nothing the client could really do with them either. And there's no insurance claim here because everything arrived just later than I thought. She's miffed. I'm upset. FedEx. FedEx. Do I do anything for the client? Do I just say I'm sorry? What are your thoughts?

[Corey]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Heather]

That is, I. Nobody was wrong. But it was wrong.

[Corey]

Comes down to Communication. And what was the communication before it went out? What is your guarantees and your non guarantees. Did you express to her that hey, this might not right arrive in time once it leaves my hands?

[Heather]

It sounds like it. However, the client still didn't get so when everything you did everything right and the answer was still wrong. There's a point. And I I know we're big on like refunds and customer service. Weirdly, I do not feel called to a refund for this.

[Corey]

I I had a client yesterday. She's paid in everything. She's been on my books for months and she needs to pick up the order on Thursday. I was middle of her order yesterday and she messaged me that the child has RSV and the the whole birthday is now not not a birthday.

[Heather]

Oh.

[Corey]

And so thank goodness she said I just wondered if they freeze well which I know she was being polite because

[Heather]

she wanted to know she could get out of it technically.

[Corey]

But she couldn't because I was literally halfway through it, nothing on my side. So I was again, they actually freeze really well.

[Heather]

What if she said I want to cancel? Well then you have to go back to your policies. Yeah. Make the policies the bad guy. So in this case case, hopefully Arizona, the policies are the bad guy. I if you did everything right and you set the expectations that once it leaves your hands. Which is what they said. Once it leaves my hands, it leaves my hands. You know. You know it's just that wasn't within their control and they made it, they were explicit. Now I'd say possibly this go back. You can't go back in time. So future orders, I would say if someone says I need these shipped priority.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Which means they need them by a very specific date, you'll have to say, hey listen, I needed this order about a week ago or put it somewhere if you need them priority shipped. We want to get them out. Here's how you'll freeze them when they arrive early. Yeah.

[Corey]

One thing I do do do is no matter if someone orders from me five months ago or one week ago, I always send a one week pre pickup email email. And that's just to establish because once I had someone who went into labor early so the baby shower was no longer because the baby now existed in the world. So then I learned from that. Let me make sure that I always email one out before I start prepping anything. So my hands have not done one ounce of work for their order. And I will allow someone to cancel if something has happened within that one week. So one lady I don't know how she knew her kids were going to be sick on Saturday, but she said they were going to be sick on Saturday. Saturday. And I said, hey, you know, I don't normally do this, but because you have told me before I have done anything right now, I will allow you out of this order because I have not started.

[Heather]

I agree that that's a play an easy place to bend the rules because you're not out anything.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

You know, okay, the time and getting the order secured.

[Corey]

And you won't. The problem is I see bakers be like, well, I could have taken an order if they weren't there. You know, in the. The grocery store worker, if they didn't drop the eggs, it would have had more eggs to. To sell. There's going to be things that happen.

[Heather]

That one I see a lot of people say, well, it's a non refundable deposit. And then I'll see in the comment section of another group, people are like, but you didn't bake it. So you're not out ingredients, you're not out time. Technically you're out a little bit of time. But I would say that customer service ability there is the least risk for you because there's not a lot of time.

[Corey]

Sure.

[Heather]

Cost associated with bending that rule. Yeah. And letting that person out. Because here, here's the thing. You always have like, you know, somebody's sick, which is a bummer. But then you have have like travesty where somebody has passed away or you know, the mother was having issues with the delivery where you're like, okay, well then the rule there. Because I want. But at the end we can bend the rules multiple places when of course this situation is completely different because you have product rendered set expectations. It wasn't even in the fault of the baker. The clients out these cookies because they can't necessarily use them. But the product and service were provided within the expectations.

[Corey]

I guess you could say that they could file a claim with FedEx.

[Heather]

No, no claim because the product was delivered covered and it wasn't broken. So there's no claim either.

[Corey]

But can you say if FedEx. And I'm not good at shipping because I never ship anything. Can you say to FedEx it didn't arrive in time like you promised it would be here and it did not get there.

[Heather]

I want.

[Corey]

Can I get. Can you. The insurance part.

[Heather]

You know, can you file a claim with FedEx relate delivery. I'm not the first person ask. You can. You can file a claim. So maybe that one money back guarantee Applies to many but not all services like Express or International. The packages that at least a day late. So possibly that is an option. Good thought. So I would try that then.

[Corey]

Yeah, because then if you got your money back, then that would be a little bit.

[Heather]

I mean if you got your money back, give the client their money back. Now everyone's happy.

[Corey]

Yeah, sure. Yeah. But let's.

[Heather]

If you get your money back, give the client. I'm like, screw that.

[Corey]

Keep it all. Keep their money. Keep that money. A billionaire new business model.

[Heather]

Let's shift everything. We never have to fake another text message in. Not a winner. But first my heart Albany, New York hi twins. I sell custom cupcakes, cakes and brownies. You've talked about funnels before and if I want orders now, I need a shorter funnel. If I post on Instagram or Facebook and tell people to click the link above my website this way that they see I'm a legit know what I offer, it gets them to me fast. But then to order, I tell them on the website to email me to discuss their custom cupcake or cake order. And once we're on the same page, then I send them the square invoice to pay me in full to reserve my time. Should I have just told them in my social media or marketing campaigns to email me to start and skip the website because that's the shortest funnel? I'm not sure if you can just add an email as a link to social media sites that don't have a click and pay for product on my website. Well, I do for classes but not for food. Can you advise me if my current funnel is good or not? Hopefully Corey picked my number. Heart or Heather kept reading through all my questions. Thanks for the great advice and the genuineness you share. You're all a breath of fresh air here. That's so sweet. So the question is funnel. Funnel is from when the client discovers to you to when they place the order. How long does that take? And on the Internet it's typically seen as clicks. So let's say I opened Instagram. So I tapped my phone one time I saw this post. I clicked expand on the caption that tells me to click to the profile. So I click again. Now in the profile it says click the link in my bio which likely takes me to a link tree if not directly. But let's say if it takes me to a link tree now I have to click on the website. On the website I have to click down to find custom cakes and click on there to realize it's Telling me I have to send an email. So I have to go to Gmail and click again, type the email, a lot of clicks and click send. Now we have to go back and forth quite a few times. I'm clicking, clicking, clicking, and then I'm sent an invoice, my final click. Every click is the chance to lose a customer. Right? So she's saying, but I have this whole website. It makes people feel confident. However, she understands there's a lot of clicking. Right. So let's now go through the funnel. If we remove the website. So what we can do is actually eliminate the whole click to my profile because we don't need them to go there. We can have the caption actually say email me. So you want your email to be very short. We could also have it in the bio as well. So you could give them two options. So they click to Instagram, they click expand on the caption right there they see the email address. Or you can say, or go to my bio and click there. Which a link tree you can do. It's called a mail to tag, which you can do mail to colon in the email address. And it might be in. It might. It should automatically open to the default sender on that application

[Corey]

issue. An email is not clickable.

[Heather]

No, that's why you say. But we have an option to say click the link in bio or email me at.

[Corey]

Yeah, you are saving them one singular click them. Not going to your website and finding your email is allowing them to have a shorter funnel. You are correct. And whatever caught their eye. Eye, you know, probably caught their eye. And they don't necessarily need to say her about me section. They don't need to go through where you're located because they probably know. So you would bypass the website fully. It's good to have a website. But yes, you not allowing them to just click to the website to buy without even talking to you does cost

[Heather]

you a little bit.

[Corey]

But here's my clicks. If you're. You can still do both.

[Heather]

You can leave the website link in bio and shorten up. So if you. If your link in bio is just your website, you could sign up for something like link tree corn. I use an app called Shorby which allows you to have multiple links in your bio. Technically, yeah. I think if you have a business account, a lot of people are set to creator accounts on Instagram, but if you have a business one, you could have your email address in there, I think. Don't quote me on that. I know you can have your address like A direct clink to click to message.

[Corey]

Let me see what mine is while you talk.

[Heather]

I think you said to creator because you made me look it up the other day but don't quote me Creator has the benefit of more audio options. Okay so we could have the email you could do order at at emails

[Corey]

right at the top.

[Heather]

Oh very nice. So sure so sure be those link trees we have the but it's still an extra two clicks so Corey could say email me at hello at mixing bowlcookie co.com or click the link in bio. It would be hard for me to remember hello okay but I could and eliminate having to go to the website. I don't see the point of them going to the website if it's just to show your brass and be like hey look at all else that I can do but still now you got to find another way to get to me. Yeah I'd cut that that out personally. Yeah you still have your website which is great and you can use that in other forms of marketing but for that call to action there I would just have them get to that email as soon as possible for customs and

[Corey]

I will say that I bypass my website and have them go to a jot form that I have because that's the information I really need. If they want to peruse my website they can but that is an extra whole click that they have to now do two clicks so I will bypass my website all the time. I still think websites are great great as they have a ranking factor in places like Google so you can show up and people could be clicking and you didn't even know they was clicking in the first place.

[Heather]

Websites are great for pre sales websites kind of suck for customs so when I go to Quint right if we're back on that I just I just buy what I wanted but nothing that was that custom made for me. If it was I'd expect the back and forth to dial in the the details so good question I would my personal take sounds like K is the same as shorten that funnel up don't send them to the website shorten it have the option for the website use a link tree but first link have an email if that's where you know you're going to end up anyways and shorten that funnel for them Last one another New Yorker. What's the best way to deal with people who are holding up the rest of the cookie decorating class?

[Corey]

That is so me and Heather do have a little bit of an advantage because there's Two of us. And when I see a slow one, I will go over and follow them closely myself, and I'll just stay over in that corner of the room. If you're working by yourself self, Heather does a great thing where she memorizes people's names a little bit. And you can. You can kind of tell who your problem child is going to be. So you can be like, Janice, Janice, just.

[Heather]

Just.

[Corey]

I want to catch you up here. I'm going to just show you the. The slide beforehand so you can see where we're at. And then maybe you kind of talk a little bit slower and explain a few more steps to get Janice right back on where Janice needs to be. Turns out when they're slow in one step, they're typically slower in all the additional steps. Steps you'd want to focus on the majority of the class. And then maybe you can just whisper to Janice, hey, this is the next step.

[Heather]

And that's why you're slow. Yeah, that's why me and Heather actually

[Corey]

have a few different ways that they can see the steps. So I actually bake a set and put them in those 3D things. And then now I'll set that in front of Janice.

[Heather]

Display. Yeah. So when I see a. A slow goer, I'm gonna say, hey, the rest of the class, if you're. If you're not here yet, no sweat. The rest of the class, we're going to move on to the next slide. Janice, let me know, and I'll show you that other slide. Or printing out those playlists. Give people a little reference point, little tiny card with all the steps in it. It's not like, super advanced. It's better than having to print out the slide deck, which is like 50 slides, 40 slides. So, yeah, I would kind of find your person and be like, hey, Jan, Janice, Janice, let me know. And I'll. I'll scroll back. But with the rest of class, we're going to move on. Hey, guys, just so you know, we have 15 minutes left. I do. Like, it kind of speeds the Janices up a little bit. Yeah.

[Corey]

I will say that as a class gets to the end, you're no longer necessarily teaching so much because they know the drill that you can kind of walk around. You're going to be like, okay, class, here's the next step. And then maybe walk towards Janice and just look over Janice's shoulder and be like, Janice, what you're going to do next is this.

[Heather]

And then you're going to do that. What you're going to do is finish because I'm going to leave. Janice, it's lunchtime. I'm hungry. I've got to go. Janice, listen, that takes us through the text. If you guys want to text in and a chance to win a month of cookie design line which is an STL software that's pretty nifty core uses it all the time.

[Corey]

I used it this weekend.

[Heather]

571-556-5644 is the text in code for that sponsors cookie design lab. Code twins saves you 15 off if you didn't win this week. Baking me crazy Code favorite Twins twin takes you 10% off. I hope you guys all think of Heather when you type that. Bakety bake code twins takes 10% off your order of twin. If you bought the 25 pound bag of baked a bake, could you text in please?

[Corey]

And where are you storing that? Where is it in your home?

[Heather]

I think they put it in the child's restraint seat because it's big enough to fit there. Oh, what's popping Con is again, in just a month you can use code twins to save 25 Bosch Nutrimil code sugar cookie saves you $20 and gives us 20 bucks bucks. Everything else is an affiliate. That one's the only affiliate one. And last but not least, Primera the Eddie the direct to food printer. No code there. They don't run discounts. But we'll have Jennifer on the podcast later this month. Oh, wait for next month.

[Corey]

Yeah. She'll be talking about both Eddie and Freddie. Eduardo and Freduardo will be Eduardo.

[Heather]

It will be an interesting I love from the mouth of babes. To hear more about primary, more about Jennifer, how they all work, how they go got into this. Whose bright idea was it to be like, hey, we print stuff. Let's print on food.

[Corey]

Yeah. And here the latest about Freddy, which I've not been able to witness in person quite yet.

[Heather]

I think someone said he'd be at cookie con but you can't buy them there for some reason. You can't buy those machines at CookieCon. Freddy ready. But you can place an order and they'll ship them.

[Corey]

Yeah, you wouldn't want to be able to. You wouldn't want to be having to

[Heather]

cart this in an airplane.

[Corey]

He'd be taking the seat seat next to you.

[Heather]

You'd have to buy Eddie a seat. Yeah. Do you have a twin tur score.

[Corey]

My twin trust. My twin trust. I had one and now it's kind of behooved out of my brain. Do you have one?

[Heather]

Yeah, I'll tell you this. I want to get into rug tufting, but I need now a rug tufting frame.

[Corey]

You have a frame.

[Heather]

You need to attach it. So I have nothing attach it to no more. A table. Yeah, you need a table with a lip on it. However, they say you could start there, but you won't end there. You'll end up at a 2x4 configuration. So I was like, okay, not handy myself. Do I need the Ryobi nail gun? Do I need a tax strip? How do I get two by fours from the home deep to my house?

[Corey]

Yeah, I think you get a truck.

[Heather]

Yeah. No. So I'm like, wow, the cost of just the thought of this is too high. And also the knowledge base isn't there. Etsy. I said Etsy maybe. Yeah. Somebody sells a pre made 2x4 frame, all you do is just drill. You just screw in the.

[Corey]

Oh, nice.

[Heather]

Yeah. So I placed my water. So thank you, Etsy. Turns out.

[Corey]

How much did that set you? Right?

[Heather]

It was a large frame. It was 4 by 5. And those frames need support legs. Right. So they were like, you'll end up. If you want to make larger rugs or more like elaborate rugs. Yeah, I know I biting off more than I can chew earlier here, but I'd rather buy. Buy once, cry once, whatever.

[Corey]

You're talking to a world of bakers, sugar cookie bakers who also bit off more than they could chew.

[Heather]

And now we're as someone biting off more, they can chew actively. It was 300, but includes tax trips, all the hardware set it up. Listen, I cried. I cried as well. I cried as well, but it included the yarn guy. When you. I was gonna. The other option for this podcast today was gonna be it sucks to suck. Like it sucks to start something. You're just so bad at it. It's like eyes water.

[Corey]

You've seen me start many of things and I'm okay with the sad Google

[Heather]

Photos memory was your clouds, your cloud cookies.

[Corey]

Oh yeah, they're all glowing.

[Heather]

Must have been six years ago today or something. It's a springy day where those clouds

[Corey]

were bringing Claudio in today.

[Heather]

Didn't we do a collab where you recreated one of your first cookies?

[Corey]

I did Bob the. Did it do Bob the Bob.

[Heather]

No, no, I don't think he did.

[Corey]

He was. He was blobbing about. I don't think I could have. His eyes were literally flowing off of him.

[Heather]

So anyways, I'm at the sucking to suck part, but we must continue for it. It's just part of the Process.

[Corey]

Part of the. It's part of the process. It is part of the process.

[Heather]

Yeah. My. My twin was soloplexing, so I already covered that one.

[Corey]

You did. You did? Twintellect1. If we did one was yesterday at the gym. I felt like I was in the way. Technically, people can be in the way, but when you're in a place, you're not technically in the way. So I was telling my son, who walks like this, he just looks like

[Heather]

he tries to take a small amount of space, but he's also 6ft dollars. Yeah.

[Corey]

Two shoulders, they're so up, and his head's way down. I said, you will be in the space that you're in. So you can e. Either command it or you can shrink into it. So yesterday, these people were. Everyone was moving around me, and I was literally standing, waiting for Nate to do whatever he was doing on the little fly machine. But I felt like I was in the way. And then I. I felt myself trying to shrink down because I didn't know there's people whizzing by me. And Nate was like, just be where you are. Just be where you are.

[Heather]

You can only, you know, Ruth Ann, 86, turning 87. I've said 87 so many times, I think she's turning 89. God. She was like, if she's like, you know, I always ask her, like, what's one thing you tell the whole world after 86 years on it? And she was like, nobody cares. Nobody cares what you think. They care about you. They're too busy caring it about themselves. So they don't care. Like, you are caring. You're making up that they care. Which is a little egocentric when you think about it.

[Corey]

Well, I think a lot of people are like, everyone cares so much, but you don't realize that's so self in intro focused. Instead of being like, they're so busy about their own lives, they could care a lot less about mine.

[Heather]

I used to be so worried that something in my teeth.

[Corey]

Yo, I remember you did this little.

[Heather]

Okay, I'm. I'm confessing, so I don't need a confessional. I'm telling them. I'm telling you I did. That's what I just want to confirm that I'm going to cry about it later. When you had teeth, this rig, you got to be worried about it. Okay.

[Corey]

These things are going to show a pep. A cow one. Yeah.

[Heather]

I've never seen a peppercorn who didn't want to long extend his stay here in this grill, so. But then you got to say like, hey, we all have tefers and they all got stuff. And I'm like, it's one thing to be cognizant. But now saying like, hey, do I think my teeth that would have destroyed me, destroyed me if someone was like, yeah, you do it gross.

[Corey]

Oh yeah, I know. But then it would be like a non thing. Okay. My twin trist was. Do you think people. Do you think that everyone has a doppelganger? Right now I'm talking to my doppelganger and it says other.

[Heather]

But people think Anna Kendrick's.

[Corey]

Oh, they think you. They definitely confuse you. This weekend I had to do an about face, which is a military term for turning around, I believe because I walked into the gym and I swear I saw my ex husband, which would be great.

[Heather]

I'm so sorry Corey didn't do an about face. She didn't about Snapchat immediately saying doesn't and it really did look like him.

[Corey]

It it.

[Heather]

Honestly, what did your heart rate do?

[Corey]

Oh, it. My little apple watch is like, are you already on the treadmill?

[Heather]

No girl, I love how your ex husband doesn't speak to you but you think he'd lie down.

[Corey]

That's what I. It was so it took me so bad. He lives states away. I haven't even seen him myself in years. But to see what looked like his twin. They could have been twins. Was.

[Heather]

And he's not kind of like a blending. He's got a unique, unique features like you and say, oh, that's him.

[Corey]

No.

[Heather]

Yeah, I'll agree the Snapchat. I was like, that looks just like him. It. It was.

[Corey]

Honestly, I think it could be his twin. I think I could have been like, his name's Rick. Is your name.

[Heather]

There's a subreddit

[Corey]

Mitch.

[Heather]

Oh, I thought you said something else on the podcast.

[Corey]

Richard and Mitchell.

[Heather]

Mitch, there's a subreddit for posting yourself and trying to find a doppelganger.

[Corey]

Oh, that's so funny. Honestly, I saw the guy again the next day and I was not taken aback so my heart rate wasn't up that I was able to stare at him like a creep. And it looked just like him. Even from every.

[Heather]

I thought you were going to say like and in the light was different. You're like, no, no, no.

[Corey]

He looked even more so like even my Nate, my now husband was like, are you catching feels right now? I said, no, it just looks just like him.

[Heather]

You know, it's kind of like your brain's like something eye separation, teeth, mouth form how their hair is. Something about this. Your brain's like, we have files on this person.

[Corey]

Yeah, files. A whole file cabinet just yanked out.

[Heather]

If you ran into your ex, Rob, what would you do? I was like, run out screaming.

[Corey]

Yeah, but you never. You never know what you'd actually do. Because I was walking into the gym

[Heather]

to sign in, and I see this dude that looks like him, you know, like, in your head. It's like, this is what I tell him. Like, you absolutely wouldn't tell you that. You'd scream none.

[Corey]

You're doing about face. Leave.

[Heather]

Thank you for coming to today's podcast. If you run into your ex husband, please text in to buy 71565-6445.

[Corey]

Or if you have a doppelganger out there and someone has confused you for that, I would love to hear that story.

[Heather]

I had platinum blonde hair. My hair's fried. Speaking of why, I probably need more products today. And a man came up to me and he's like, my wife, I don't want to do this. She stinks. You're a Lady Gaga.

[Corey]

And I said, oh.

[Heather]

I said, that's so funny. I'm not. He's like, she said, you'd say that if you were Lady Gaga. That's it.

[Corey]

I said, do you want to say here? Maybe she's gonna realize.

[Heather]

Okay, see you guys next week on the podcast.

[Corey]

Thank you for tuning in.

[Heather]

Yes.