Are lesbians “real” in the way society claims? Or is much of what we call lesbianism a modern cultural phenomenon driven by social dynamics, politics, jealousy, and intra-female competition rather than innate same-sex attraction?

In this provocative episode, Simone & Malcolm Collins unpack shocking stats (e.g., 36% of lesbians in their 40s, 50% in their 50s, and 75% of those 60+ were previously married to men), question historical “lesbians” like Sappho (whose poetry may reflect jealousy or performance rather than lust), and explore why female sexuality seems far more fluid and dominance/resource-oriented than male sexuality.

We cover:

* Skyrocketing lesbian/bisexual identification among young women (Gen Z at 5.4% lesbian)

* High rates in sports, academia, military, and urban monocultures

* “Lesbian bed death” and low sexual frequency in lesbian couples vs. gay men

* Why historical records show clear gay male attraction but mostly spinster/companion “lesbian” pairings

* Political lesbianism, the “U-Haul” stereotype, and why women may pair with women for compatibility rather than raw sexual attraction

This is NOT denial of individual experiences—some women are genuinely same-sex attracted—but a challenge to the “born this way” narrative when data and history suggest something more complex (and often male-projected) is at play.

Episode Notes

There are a variety of odd things about lesbians:

* One analysis of Census data found that around 36% of women in their 40s with same-sex partners were previously married to men

* Despite there being fewer women who identify as lesbian (A large pooled analysis reported that about 1.5% of men and 1.2% of women in surveyed populations identified as gay or lesbian, respectively), there are more lesbian marriages than gay marriages, at least in the USA (roughly 53% of same-sex marriages are lesbian)

* Women make up the lion’s share of the LGBTQIA population, but mostly due to their identification as bisexual (around twice the rate of men)

* The rate at which women identify as lesbian or bisexual is trending up with younger generations more than the rate at which young men are identifying as gay

* The percentage of lesbians among professional athletes is significantly higher than the percentage in the general population (e.g. approx 30–38% of WNBA players are openly lesbian or in same-sex relationships; this is 15–30x higher than the general population) whereas there is no difference with male athletes.

* There are also disproportionately more lesbians in academia, STEM fields, psychology/social work, law, nonprofits, the trades, and the military

I want to go through this data and get Malcolm’s impression.

Historical Lesbians

Sappho

People claim that Sappho was a lesbian (meaning a woman whose primary erotic and romantic attractions were to other women—based on the strongest available historical evidence: her own surviving poetry.

* It is argued that her poems (from around 630–570 BCE on the island of Lesbos) provide clear, direct expressions of intense desire for women,

But if her own surviving poetry is the evidence, she is no more a lesbian than modern male songwriters who write for female artists, or right-wing body building appreciators, are gay.

For context: Most scholars think Sappho’s primary audience was other women in her own elite social circle, especially the young, unmarried women she taught and led in song. Her poems were composed to be performed aloud with music, often in a small, aristocratic female community, at religious occasions (especially for female deities) and at events like weddings

In other words, you could argue she was a micro Taylor Swift.

Alleged Evidence from Her Poetry

* In (one of her most famous), the speaker describes overwhelming physical symptoms of desire—trembling, sweating, feeling near death—while watching a beloved woman sitting with a man. The intensity is portrayed as romantic/sexual jealousy and attraction to the woman.

* OK, let’s look at it:

* “That man seems to me to be equal to the gods

* who is sitting opposite you

* and hears you nearby

* speaking sweetly

* and laughing delightfully, which indeed

* makes my heart flutter in my breast;

* for when I look at you even for a short time,

* it is no longer possible for me to speak

* but it is as if my tongue is broken

* and immediately a subtle fire has run over my skin,

* I cannot see anything with my eyes,

* and my ears are buzzing

* a cold sweat comes over me, trembling

* seizes me all over, I am paler

* than grass, and I seem nearly

* to have died.

* but everything must be dared/endured, since (?even a poor man) ...”

* This could just as easily be interpreted as a girl observing romantic competition.

* It’s as if far-future humans discovered fragments of Katy Perry’s “I kissed a girl” lyrics and were like “OOOH SHE IS A LESBIAN”

* “I Kissed a Girl” was written by Katy Perry, Dr. Luke (Lukasz Gottwald), Max Martin, and Cathy Dennis, and recorded and released by Katy Perry in 2008 as her breakthrough single.

* There are loads of female written or sung songs that feature admiration for other women:

* “Suddenly I See” – KT Tunstall

* “Put Your Records On” – Corinne Bailey Rae

* “Without You Without Them” and “True Blue” – boygenius

* “Embody” – Frankie Cosmos

* “Valerie” – Amy Winehouse

* “Nana Was a Suffragette” – Helen Watson

* “Mama, I Remember You Now” – Marit Bergman

* “Isabelle” – Alba August

* “Take It As It Comes” – Vivian Girls

* Other fragments mention women by name (e.g., Atthis, Anactoria) in contexts of affection, beauty, separation, and longing, often with sensual imagery.

* In Fragment 1 (the “Hymn to Aphrodite”), the speaker prays to Aphrodite for help in winning back an ALLEGED female lover who has rejected her, using language of pursuit, flight, and reciprocation typical of erotic poetry

* Grok when asked to summarize the original Greek without referencing external sources: The speaker (Sappho) passionately calls upon Aphrodite, the immortal goddess born of Zeus, who weaves wiles and sits on a many-colored throne. She begs the goddess not to crush her heart with grief or anguish.

* She recalls how Aphrodite has heard and answered her prayers before: the goddess left her father’s golden house, yoked her swift sparrows to her chariot, and flew through the bright air over the dark earth until she arrived. Smiling with her immortal face, Aphrodite then asked what the speaker was suffering this time, whom she wanted to bring back to her love, who was wronging her, and what she most desired to happen.

* Aphrodite promised that the beloved—who now flees—would soon pursue; who now rejects gifts would soon give them; who now does not love would soon love, even against her will.

* The poem ends with the speaker pleading for Aphrodite to come now, release her from painful worries, grant whatever her heart longs to achieve, and stand as her ally once again.

* I also asked Grok if she is referring to a woman:

* The speaker in Sappho’s Hymn to Aphrodite (Fragment 1) is asking Aphrodite for help to win the favor (or return the love/affection) of a woman.

* This is clear from the original Greek text in the lines where Aphrodite speaks:

* τίνα δηὖτε πείθω ἄψ σ᾿ ἄγην ἐς ϝὰν φιλότατα; (”Whom again must I persuade to lead you back into her love?”)

* τίς σ᾿, ὦ Ψάπφ᾿, ἀδικήει; (”Who, O Sappho, is wronging you?”)

* καὶ γὰρ αἰ φεύγει, ταχέως διώξει... αἰ δὲ μὴ φίλει, ταχέως φιλήσει κωὐκ ἐθέλοισα (”For if she flees, soon she will pursue... if she does not love, soon she will love, even unwillingly.”)

* The key indicator is the feminine participle ἐθέλοισα (”willing/wanting,” in the phrase “even against her will”), which grammatically marks the beloved as female. Earlier translations sometimes rendered the beloved as male (e.g., “he” in some 18th–19th century versions), but modern scholarship and editions overwhelmingly accept the text as referring to a woman, consistent with Sappho’s recurring themes of desire for women.

* I took the English translated text and submitted it to Perplexity, asking: “Please summarize this poem. What is the author asking the goddess aphrodite to do?”

* It wrote:

* This poem — often titled “Hymn to Aphrodite” and attributed to the ancient Greek poet Sappho — is a lyrical prayer to the goddess Aphrodite, asking for divine help in matters of love.

* The speaker (Sappho herself) calls upon Aphrodite to relieve her from emotional pain and to assist her in winning the affection of the person she loves. She reminds the goddess of previous times when Aphrodite listened to her pleas, descended from heaven in her chariot drawn by birds, and comforted her, promising that love’s power would soon turn in her favor — that the one who now rejects her will eventually return her love.

* In short, Sappho is asking Aphrodite to:

* Ease her suffering caused by unrequited love.

* Intervene in the situation so the beloved will reciprocate her feelings.

* Be her ally once again, just as the goddess had been before.

* An image to keep in mind: Sappho is like a heartbroken devotee calling her divine patron down from the heavens, pleading for the goddess’s aid to transform longing into love.

Scholars generally agree these are not mere “platonic” frie...

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