Are Catholic exorcisms making a comeback? Demand for exorcisms is surging, with the number of U.S. exorcists growing from ~12-24 to about 150 in recent years — yet priests say they’re still overwhelmed.

In this episode, we dive into recent reports on the rise in exorcism requests, linked to occultism, esotericism, and satanism concerns raised even at the Vatican. Despite our strong anti-Vatican and anti-mysticism stance, we make the case that structured Catholic exorcisms are surprisingly effective — and often superior to modern psychology for certain issues.

We contrast safe, regulated Catholic practices with riskier charismatic/Pentecostal approaches (which have led to tragic outcomes). Plus: the surprising power of ritual, placebo without deception, how big “before-and-after” events rewire self-perception, and why evidence-based rituals like exorcisms can deliver durable mental resets.

We also discuss minor vs. major exorcisms, house blessings, our kids’ convergent “basilisk exorcisms,” and why believing you’ve been “cured” can outperform many clinical interventions.

Timestamps below. If you’ve ever wondered whether dramatic rituals can hack psychology better than therapy — this one’s for you.

Make exorcisms big again? Let us know your thoughts.

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Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we’re going to be talking about the phenomenon of the surge in exorcisms that have been happening with articles like Demand for Catholic Exorcism Reportedly on the Rise.

So we’ll go over a couple articles that talk about this recent surge in exorcisms, and then we will go over why Exorcisms are, and people know on this show we’re generally seen as having a, and I I think it’s important to cite your bias as a pretty anti-Catholic bias. But Catholic Exorcisms specifically are demonstrably a good thing.

They, they should hold

Simone Collins: on. No, we actually love Catholics. We have a bias against C, the Catholic Church and

Malcolm Collins: Vatican.

Simone Collins: Catholicism.

Malcolm Collins: The V, the Vatican. Yeah. Yes.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: We’re anti Vatican channel. Yes,

Simone Collins: yes.

Malcolm Collins: But, but this is one thing the Vatican does very well.

Simone Collins: Yeah, we, we are weirdly, despite being very anti mysticism as well.

We’re weirdly like, yeah, exorcism’s great. This is,

Malcolm Collins: I think a lot of people would be surprised. I don’t [00:01:00] because they know that we’re very anti Vatican and we’re very anti, we’re anti mysticism. Many people would even call our form of Christianity secular in its nature. So they would be surprised that we would be like, Hey, that thing that, like even Catholics get kind of embarrassed about the whole normalization

Simone Collins: of Yeah, you don’t hear them talk about it a lot.

Malcolm Collins: Exorcisms. And I’m like, no, that’s really good. Like,

Simone Collins: well, because we believe in evidence-based interventions and guess what? Placebo works

Malcolm Collins: well. Yeah. Which is what I’m gonna go into. If you’re like, well, I’ve heard all these horror stories about exorcisms, where people died and where children were abused and none of those were carried out.

By Catholics, they were all carried out by Pentecostals.

Simone Collins: Oh, see, I told you Pentecostals,

Malcolm Collins: that’s

Simone Collins: who you gotta watch out

Malcolm Collins: for. It was charismatic Pentecostals too. They’re they’re bad kind. Yeah,

Simone Collins: they’re, they are witches. Just Pentecostal equals witch. I don’t know what to tell you, Malcolm,

Malcolm Collins: that that episode went live on our private, where we point out that many of the practices in Charismatic Pentecostal [00:02:00] Christianity do not come from Christianity.

But they were actually borrowed from AOC cultist in Theosophists of the 19 witchcraft twenties

Simone Collins: witchcraft.

Malcolm Collins: They, they literally just took witchcraft in, integrated it into Christianity. But I didn’t want to be too spicy with that one. So we, we shelved that episode.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You were like, personally, I, I know why you were willing to go so hard on Catholics and you’re not willing to go hard on Pentecostal Pentecostals.

Malcolm Collins: At least the Protestants. Anyway, anyway, I’ll, I’ll keep going here. I love your, your, it, it’s, it’s actually about voting. So if we were able to run for president, the Pentecostal vote is in a very important vote.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I feel like the, the Pentecostals are fractured enough because they’re also, they’re much more likely to be following individual charismatic preachers to be like, yeah, all the other Pentecostals are witches. We’re just not. And so they’re all gonna be like, yeah, Pentecostals very tic. My guy actually

Malcolm Collins: vets everything he does.

Simone Collins: No, my guy, yeah, my guy, they’re not [00:03:00] ma his magical spells are only from God, from Jesus, but everyone elses magical spells and there are speaking in tongues that is all satanic.

And it’s, I dunno about that. It’s not with I speak in tongues, it’s just not, it’s fine.

Malcolm Collins: Alright. All right. So, to go into this according to the Baltimore sun, requests for exorcisms are increasing and priests performing the ritual are in greater demand than ever with a number of exorcists in the United States growing from about a dozen, 15 years ago to approximately 150 today.

Simone Collins: that is insane to me because I thought they were, this still is very. When I was in college, remember I had that really embarrassing crush on the Catholic, who then became a priest. Yeah. And there were, there were on two occasions. He was like, oh yeah, like, I’m gonna go to an exorcism today. That, I think that happened at least twice.

So I thought they were like way more common if, like, within one college campus.

Malcolm Collins: Did he wanted to like go recreationally watch exercises.

Simone Collins: He was, no, I think he was gonna help the priest, you know, like to be the assistant ex exerciser, I don’t know what the words are here, but like you, I [00:04:00] think he was gonna help the priest.

Exercise the demon. And

Malcolm Collins: I was, was like, but you know, was at the Vatican, so he was like on fast track to he

Simone Collins: well, ‘cause he’s the best. Well no, the last time I saw him was at the Vatican, but I, I think he came back too. Like now he’s in the

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, he was on fast track to like church stuff anyway.

Simone Collins: No, he’s, well, yeah, no, but like he’s, I mean, I would want him ‘cause he, he like really knew his Catholic stuff. But like. I wouldn’t want him at an exorcism, but

Malcolm Collins: he’s actually a great example of how Catholicism can lower, like why they have a lower birth rate than other iterations of Christianity.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because you would’ve wanted to marry him and likely would’ve converted to his religion and had lots of kids with him, but instead he wanted to become a priest.

Simone Collins: Yeah. For the backstory, just so I, I relive the most embarrassing parts of my life on this podcast ‘cause you also won’t delete my old videos on this channel.

When I was in college, there was this guy in my honors class on the divine comedy that had like a Jew and a, and a and a [00:05:00] pagan, wicked goth girl and me, the like raised Buddhist liberal and then some like Protestants in it. Talking about Dante’s divine comedy, which is of course very Catholic in its inspiration as hate fan fiction.

And. Then he was the one Catholic. So I, I became very I, I’m like, I’m attracted to passion and intelligence and he had a lot of it for Catholicism. So then I got this big crush on him ‘cause he also looked kind of like Matt Damon, not retarded.

Malcolm Collins: Dude,

Simone Collins: like, like real Matt Damon, like good. And so I was like, okay.

Like I, I, I’m like, I have a huge crush on you. And so I would I worked at a cupcake shop at the time. I worked closing shifts. So I would get all these free, very expensive cupcakes at the end of the day, and I’d walk home with these heavy bags until my fingers bled. And I would, he was an RA in his dorm, and I’d be like, oh, well I’m gonna deliver cupcakes for your, the students in your dorm.

And then while there, you know, I’d show up in his room with all the cupcakes and I’d be like, oh, I have this [00:06:00] question. I just, can you explain to me why gays go to hell? And then like, he’d sit down and like, talk to me about like the hardest things about

Malcolm Collins: over and over again. You asked him about Catholic doctrine because he found that that was the one thing that he’d get really nerdy about.

Simone Collins: It would allow me to stay in his room longer. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Oh

God.

Malcolm Collins: And then one day he’s like, Simone, like, like, these, these meetings with you have really moved me and helped me decide my direction in life and I’m gonna join the priesthood. That is the worst.

Simone Collins: This is how good my game is

Malcolm Collins: ever.

Simone Collins: But yeah, no, this is, this is maybe, maybe part of the reason why, it’s not best,

Malcolm Collins: but, but think about this in another context. If he had been in another denomina...