Is Vatican II the result of a “gay Jew infiltrating the Catholic Church”? Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the shocking story of Gregory Baum — a matrilineal Jew, former Catholic priest, and openly gay man who authored the first draft of Nostra Aetate, one of the most controversial documents of the Second Vatican Council.

In this episode, they explore:

• Baum’s background, conversion, active homosexuality while writing key Church documents, and later life

• The content and lasting impact of Nostra Aetate on Catholic teaching regarding Jews, other religions, and interfaith dialogue

• Why many traditional Catholics view Vatican II with deep suspicion

• The broader implications for Church authority, doctrine, and demographics

A wild, uncomfortable, and thought-provoking discussion on faith, identity, institutional capture, and theology. What do you think — infiltration, urban monoculture influence, or something else?

Watch until the end for Malcolm & Simone’s unfiltered reactions.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. If you clicked on this video and are wondering, is this a clickbait title? It is so much crazier than you think, right? So I saw a title going through on a Redeem Zoomer video. We’ve had him on the show. I think he’s a great content creator, but he’s a pretty small C conservative content creator.

Doesn’t really lean into c- clickbait. Generally tries to dig into the meat and bones of religious history, Christian history, and theology. And it was the, the gay Jew who infiltrated Catholicism or the Vatican or something like that. Anyway, I read this and I was like, “Wh- this isn’t normal Redeem Zoomer content,” right?

It mu- it can’t possibly be true, Malcolm. I start listening to the video. I get to the end of it and I’m like, “Oh, my God, I have to know more.” So I need to clarify a few things about this particular individual and the influence they have had on Catholicism. [00:01:00] First of all is this somebody who was just, like, same sex attracted or, you know, not, not actually sleeping with men?

Or maybe they, long after writing the documents that became important parts of Vatican II Nostra A- aetera m- they, they maybe long after had gay sex or started doing gay activism or something like that. They were, while they were a priest, during the time period they wrote these documents, having active gay sex with men Yeah and

Simone Collins (2): then it’s like- Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold, hold on.

You, how can you be a Catholic priest and a, I mean, I guess you could be a ma- a matrilineal Jew And that’s the other, right, so here’s

Malcolm Collins: another thing. I was like, maybe they’re just ethnically Jewish or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, they’re probably not actually a

Simone Collins (2): Jew. They’re just matrilineally, ooh, matrilineally Jewish, and that’s it, right?

Yeah, so- And then that would be-

Malcolm Collins: He is, by the way, matrilineally [00:02:00] Jewish. His, one of the things he fought hardest to normalize within the Vatican and Catholicism as a policy is that it is immoral to attempt to proselytize to and convert Jews to Christianity. Does that sound a lot like somebody who actually deconverted from Judaism?

That makes no sense if you actually believe Christian principles, right? Like, you would... I’m, I’m saying this, I’m trying to be, like, as... I have, I have tackled this particular conundrum every way I can in my head, and the only way, because then, like, wouldn’t he convert back to Judaism?

But the only way I can get it to make sense when I piece together his various writings, and then it does make sense, is he thinks that, that the [00:03:00] Jews are still under the first covenant. And that as such, you can have a b- believe that the Jewish worldview is both 100% correct and accurate, and the Christian worldview is simultaneously 100% correct and accurate. Because the first covenant stands and you have the second covenant. And so he basically, I mean, if this is true, it means that he 100% believed in, even if he was telling the truth about being a Catholic, Catholicism and Judaism.

Or a form of Catholicism that’s heavily different from other forms of Catholicism, because now we’re gonna get to, what did he write? So he wrote Nostra Aetate. This is an official declaration of the Second Vatican Council. It was overwhelmingly approved with a final vote of 2,021 in favor and only 88 against, and it was promulgated or officially issued by Pope Paul VI on October [00:04:00] 28th, 1965.

What that means in terms of Catholic doctrine is that’s not the same thing as a papal bull, right? Like, it doesn’t mean that it directly came from God. But what it does mean, according to the catechism of the Catholic Church, or, like, their official documents about what all Catholics have to do, is Catholics, quote-unquote, “owe it religious assent or a sincere submission of intellect and will.”

See CCC 892 to 893. It is not optional. And I will read through that, the, like, official Catholic doctrine on these types of policies. But what it said and what it introduced to Catholicism as a concept is that other religions, including religions outside of the Abrahamic tree, like Hinduism and Buddhism, have a ray of divine truth to them.

And it’s even written ... It can be interpreted, like now, [00:05:00] after I went over this document, I understand now why so many of our Catholic friends hate Vatican II. ‘Cause I’m reading this and I’m like, “Whoazers.” Like, this is pretty wild. And it, it goes through and sort of praises things about other major religions and sort of creates commandments, essentially, for Catholics around getting along with them rather than necessarily trying to convert them.

That’s crazy. Very

convenient if a Jew had entered the, the, the Catholic Church. Okay. By the way, other final crazy thing is he also deconverted- Oh ... from

Simone Collins (2): Catholicism. So he, like, came in, vandalized church policy, and then- Vandalized church

Malcolm Collins: policy in a very d- and note, when I say he wrote the Nostra E- Eleata this document- It’s not like he co-wrote it or something like that.

He wrote the entirety, as far as church history and anyone is aware- Okay ... of the first [00:06:00] draft of this document. How- Yes, it was heavily edited after its first draft and before it entered the sort of church law and stuff like that. And actually, it seemed to have gotten even worse in future edits. In his original writing of it, it was really just focused on Jews and Christians getting along and Judaism being partially true.

Okay. And all of the, like, Hinduism and Buddhism stuff was added by other people afterwards. Oh, wow. So, like the his, his group of buddies- It was the ‘60s. It was the time. Yeah but the reason he left was also crazy. So within the church and during his time in the church, he was a well-known LGBT activist.

Oh. And he left the church, and we’ll go into that because as he said the, the, the, the church’s stance on gays. Which is odd because one he... If- he was a priest. He’s not, in C- Catholic terms at least, it’s, that, that doesn’t [00:07:00] just mean you can’t sleep with women. You can’t sleep with anyone as a Catholic priest.

Yeah. Right? Like- Yeah ... their stance on gays had nothing to do with the fact that he couldn’t sleep with men. Yeah, it’s, it’s about

Simone Collins (2): celibacy. It’s not about selective celibacy.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, although he was doing that anyway. Well. He ends up, by the way, long-term dating another Catholic priest who is gay or former Catholic priest who is gay.

Simone Collins (2): Oh, I just, no, I just want the yaoi manga version of this. After leaving- It sounds fantastic.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Y- you know how G- oh, you wanna get even more manga? Do you know who he’s married to today?

Simone Collins (2): Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t know. Who? What? An ex-Catholic nun.

Simone Collins (2): God, you said that and my, my computer just, like, demonically shut off. It, it was like- ... it wasn’t used to process that. No, it was

Malcolm Collins: an

ex-Catholic nun who he’s married to now. Oh my. Well,

Simone Collins (2): a very

Malcolm Collins: mannish

Simone Collins (2): nun perhaps.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. They don’t have any [00:08:00] sexual relationship. I think it’s so that he can more easily have both a long-term pr- relationship, which is something he’s always wanted, and practice casual sex with gay men in, in potentially large numbers.

So okay. I’ve set the scene, I think. This is absolutely crazy. I now understand why, like, all of the sane Catholics who, like, are, are our friends are all like, “Yeah, I’m not, like, a big fan of Vatican II. That... Some w- some fishy stuff went on with that,” right? And l- let’s, let’s just go into this, okay?

‘Cause it gets... , so he knew he was attracted to men in his teenage years but remained celibate during his time as a priest. Ordained in the 1950s, left the priesthood in 1974. A- and note his conversion into Catholicism is also pretty fishy. So we’ll get into that as well. In his 2016 autobiography, The Oil Has Not Run Dry, he publicly came out. He described falling in love with men [00:09:00] emotionally in his younger years. The joy mixed with pain because it couldn’t b...