Battle Lines — “Frog poison, tear gas and Novichok: Inside Russia’s chemical weapons programme”

Podcast: Battle Lines
Host: The Telegraph
Date: February 18, 2026
Featuring: Venetia Rainey (host), Arthur Scott Geddes (host), Hamish de Bretton Gordon (former CO, UK Joint CBRN Regiment), Dr. Gemma Boucher (Centre of Conflict and Health Research, King's College London)

Overview

This episode delves into the recent confirmation that Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was killed with a rare frog-derived poison, unpacking how investigators cracked the case, the broader implications for Russia’s chemical weapons capacity, and what this says about both battlefield and assassination-use toxins. The hosts are joined by two leading experts—Hamish de Bretton Gordon and Dr. Gemma Boucher—who offer deep-dive analysis into the science, forensics, geopolitics, and future risks (including AI-designed chemical agents) associated with chemical weapons.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Navalny Case: What Happened and How Was It Proven?

• Navalny’s Death Reexamined
  • Two years prior, suspicions abounded when Navalny died in prison. New evidence confirms he was killed with a rare frog poison, “ipibatidine.” (02:10)
• What is Ipibatidine?
  • “It was identified in the 1970s through chemical investigations looking at frogs in the Ecuadorian jungles… far more effective than morphine [as a painkiller]... [but] the very narrow range that it is effective… sits very, very close to the much wider range where it's lethal...”
    — Dr. Gemma Boucher (02:55)
  • Shelved as a medical prospect due to its lethality, but of interest to malign actors for chemical weapons (03:50).
• Who Else Has It?
  • While research uses exist worldwide, open publications from Russian institutions are a “smoking gun” indicating weaponization potential. Russia leverages this ambiguity for disinformation. (04:10)
• Synthesis and Use in Assassination
  • Russia didn’t harvest the compound from frogs; it synthesized it from scratch in labs:
    “I like to think of it kind of like Lego blocks… you could go into a separate box of Lego and build the same structure yourself…”
    — Dr. Gemma Boucher (05:17)
  • Small quantities suffice for targeted killings, so stockpiles can be hidden. (05:17)
• Forensic Challenge and Triumph
  • Getting tissue samples out of Russia was “a heroic tale… quite an impressive story.” (11:25)
  • “Once you have a decent sample... it’s so very important they are collected and prepared properly so that they are admissible… Porton Down is a designated OPCW laboratory…”
    — Hamish de Bretton Gordon (06:44)
  • Confirmation came from several European labs, eliminating doubt about the Kremlin’s involvement.

Russia’s Use of Chemical Weapons: Flexing Muscles and Sending Messages

• Signature Tactics
  • “They want to give a message they can kill anybody they want, anywhere in the world by using these exotic toxins...”
    — Hamish de Bretton Gordon (01:42, 06:44)
• Sending Signals
  • “It’s so unusual that it is as if they are trying to send some sort of signal… [Putin] has only stayed in power for 25, 26 years by being absolutely ruthless.”
    — Venetia Rainey & Hamish de Bretton Gordon (09:15-09:31)
  • Examples cited: Polonium-210 (Litvinenko, 2006), Novichok (Skripal poisoning), and a pattern of targeted killings. (09:31)

Chemical Weapons on the Battlefield: Ukraine as a Case Study

• Trench Warfare, Modern Tactics
  • Russia is using “industrial amounts of chemical weapons” in Ukraine—especially chloropicrin, “the first chemical weapon ever used in the First World War.” (17:16)
  • Battlefield Impact:
    “Using chloropicrin on the trenches is exactly the same as using a nerve agent… it gets people out of the trenches and then they’re sort of shot conventionally.”
    — Hamish de Bretton Gordon (22:42)
  • The use of “poor man’s nuclear weapons”—cheap, effective, and with significant psychological and tactical impacts. (17:16, 22:42)
• Range of Agents
  • Russia maintains an arsenal from “boutique” assassination toxins to mass-effect battlefield agents. Evidence suggests ongoing research (novichok variants, chemical precursors). (22:42)

State of Russia’s Chemical Weapons Program

• Continued Research
  • “You have to presume the Russians will always use their scientific apparatus to do what they can to develop new agents… they like to assassinate people in ways that grab headlines…”
    — Dr. Gemma Boucher (20:53)
  • “Whether Russia has got anything in between... it’s pretty clear they are still working on novichok.”
    — Hamish de Bretton Gordon (22:42)
• Supply Chain and Infrastructure
  • Beyond the labs, Russia maintains extensive supply chains for precursors and manufacturing—key targets for disruption. (20:53)

Artificial Intelligence and the Next Generation of Chemical Weapons

• Dual-Use Dangers
  • AI can exponentially accelerate toxin discovery and design—an experiment generated 40,000 dangerous molecules in six hours, including nerve agents (VX). (25:49)
  • “Of course, as with any dual use technology, there's promise and the peril… when you have that ability in AI… that gives the opportunity to turbo speed the kind of research…”
    — Dr. Gemma Boucher (26:22)
• International Response
  • Work is underway at the policy level (via Chemical and Biological Weapons Conventions and the WHO) to address these new threats. (27:54)

Legal, Policy, and Strategic Responses

• International Treaties and Enforcement Limits
  • The Chemical Weapons Convention and OPCW have made progress but struggle with state noncompliance and lack real enforcement capability. (28:04)
  • “We now have evidence… this will go [to the ICC]… it does seem remote at the time, and particularly with Russia.”
    — Hamish de Bretton Gordon (28:04)
• Erosion of Taboo
  • The “taboo” on chemical weapons use has been shattered, particularly after inaction in Syria (“the Obama red line”). (30:27)
  • “The taboo needs to be tried to be replaced, because these are horrific weapons.”
    — Hamish de Bretton Gordon (30:40)
• Information Warfare
  • Russia not only uses chemical weapons but muddies the waters with disinformation, exploiting confusion for diplomatic cover. (32:08)
  • “[They] come out with preposterous narratives… we have to step up on the information front and say we will counter this at every possible turn.”
    — Dr. Gemma Boucher (32:08)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you have no morals or scruples, you’d use chemical weapons all the time because they’re so effective.”
  — Hamish de Bretton Gordon (17:16)
• On information warfare:
  “It's not just the use of chemical weapons… that erodes the integrity of the convention. It's also... making a mockery of it by malign actors, by those who further preposterous narratives.”
  — Dr. Gemma Boucher (32:08)
• Personal Reflection:
  Arthur Scott Geddes reveals that his great-grandfather survived a gas attack at the Somme—“chlorine gas. And yeah, I think he was quite sick afterwards.” (34:01)

Important Timestamps

• 02:10 — Introduction to new findings on Navalny’s death
• 02:55–04:02 — The science and origin of ipibatidine
• 05:17 — Synthesis of frog poison in Russia
• 06:44 — How evidence was gathered and verified
• 09:31 — The political message in Russia’s use of exotic poisons
• 11:25 — Forensic and lab investigation processes
• 13:47 — The international announcement with Yulia Navalny at Munich Security Conference
• 17:16 — Russian chemical agents on the Ukrainian battlefield
• 22:42 — Range of chemical agents and continuing Russian research
• 25:49 — AI in chemical weapons design
• 28:04 — Legal tools and the limits of international conventions
• 30:40 — Has the taboo on chemical weapons broken?
• 32:08 — Information warfare and misdirection by Russia
• 34:01 — Personal family link to chemical weapons history (The Somme)

Final Takeaways

• Russia uses chemical weapons for both high-profile assassinations and as a brute force tool on the battlefield.
• Novel or exotic agents (“boutique agents” like ipibatidine) serve propaganda and psychological objectives as much as physical ones.
• Detection and attribution are possible but require painstaking international scientific cooperation.
• The taboo on chemical weapons is weakening, and Russia exploits both the limits of enforcement and the power of information warfare.
• The AI revolution poses fresh risks of hyper-accelerating weapon discovery.
• Ongoing, determined action—both technical and informational—is needed to hinder these programs, reinforce taboo, and call malign actors to account.

For further detail and ongoing coverage of global security and health, follow Battle Lines on your preferred podcast app and subscribe to The Telegraph.