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- [00:04]
Tess Ingram
The telegraph.
- [00:09]
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Tess Ingram
Do they ever actually clean the ball pit at these kids play gyms? Or is my kid just swimming in a vat of bacteria catching whatever cootie of the day is breeding in there? A cootie that'll probably take down our whole family.
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- [01:13]
Tess Ingram
You still hear the drones, you still hear the explosions. I spoke to a friend in Gaza this morning. She lives in Deir El Bala. She said it was very loud there with strikes last night.
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These cuts will make the world less healthy, less safe and and less prosperous.
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Tess Ingram
Countries are continuing extremely risky research into bioweapons.
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Paul Newqui
It is a famine, the Gaza famine.
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Veneesha Rainey
I'm Veneesha Rainey.
- [01:36]
Arthur Scott Geddes
And I'm Arthur Scott Geddes and this.
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Veneesha Rainey
Is Battle Lines Global Health security. It's Wednesday 28th of January 2026.
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Arthur Scott Geddes
This week we're looking at Gaza. We've just entered into the next phase of the peace process and we're going to find out what the situation is like on the ground.
- [01:49]
Veneesha Rainey
Is it actually peaceful? How much aid is getting in and what is happening to Hamas's guns. Going to be speaking to someone from UNICEF who's just come back from a deployment and can tell us everything she's been seeing with her own eyes.
- [02:00]
Arthur Scott Geddes
And we'll be speaking to Paul Newquay, the Telegraph's Global health security editor, to get the latest on Trump's Board of peace.
- [02:06]
Veneesha Rainey
Tess Ingram, UNICEF spokesperson, you've recently returned from a four month stint in Gaza. Just give us a sense of what it was like there. Where were you staying? What were you seeing every day when you wake up and go for a walk in the morning?
- [02:18]
Tess Ingram
What has been interesting is over those four months, the situation has changed so much because I was obviously there in August Right through until right before Christmas. And in that time we had a ceasefire. So before the ceasefire, I think the sensory experience was, you know, loud explosions. The sites are, you know, destruction as far as the eye can see. And I was really spending most of my days, you know, with mothers with children. As you know, UNICEF is the UN children's agency, and famine was about to be declared. It was a devastating time, perhaps. You know, I've been in Gaza a lot over the past two years. I first went in January 2024. So that period there in Aug. August was, I think, the worst I had ever seen it. Since the ceasefire, we have seen things improve, which is positive. And I know we all want to hear that. We want to hear that finally something is shifting. And so for the past few months, obviously the explosions have. They haven't stopped. You know, there are still constant violations of the ceasefire and more than 110 children have been killed in this ceasefire, but they have become less. You still hear the drones, but you hear them less. And so that has changed. And for people on the ground, things have begun to get a little bit better.
- [03:29]
Veneesha Rainey
Can you tell us about some of those improvements? Let's start with some of the positives. Tell us about some of the work that UNICEF has been doing and how you've been able to make a difference to people's lives on the ground.
- [03:37]
Tess Ingram
We've managed to bring in almost a million thermal blankets. It's winter in Gaza. The weather is like it is here. It is absolutely horrible. It's wet, it's cold, the wind rips through because you're on the coast. So we've brought in almost a million blankets, 300,000 sets of winter clothes for children, and that's got everything from shoes and socks all. All the way up to a beanie and a scarf. And we've brought in 13,000 tents and a whole bunch of winter supplies that help families in these conditions. We've also managed to restart primary healthcare clinics and immunisation. We've expanded our nutrition response, we've set up more nutrition centres and we lead the repair of water and sanitation systems. And it's been pretty incredible to see the ingenuity, you know, our Palestinian partners on the ground, fixing things without the supplies that they need, because still many of those supplies aren't being allowed in. Thinking about how to repair a water system without the necessary pipes, or how do we get this old rusty generator to have another few months of life in it? Finding spare parts in markets, or taking a spare part from one machine and putting it in another. And these engineers, they're phenomenal. And I think I see that Palestinian ingenuity across so many aspects. You know, classrooms being one, teachers don't have the materials they need. And so, you know, I walk into a, a tent that UNICEF has set up for learning for children, and the teachers writing on the tarpaulin on the inside and using that as a chalkboard.
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Arthur Scott Geddes
So when the ceasefire came in, there was obviously elation in Gaza that, you know, the fighting was going to stop with the progress that's now being made in getting all of this material, in getting more supplies into the Strip. What's your sense of the morale there at the moment?
- [05:15]
Tess Ingram
There was a crash after that elation and I saw it, and I also saw it in the February ceasefire when I was in Gaza. People going, finally, we have peace. But then realizing that a ceasefire in and of itself doesn't stop them from being hungry or it doesn't mean they're not walking hours to find water or for that winter example, doesn't mean they have somewhere dry to put their children to bed tonight. And we have made improvements. The situation has got slightly better. But we're coming from such a low base of absolute horror of the last two years. We can't unite, do that very quickly. So for most people, I think the feeling is now trying to continue to survive on a daily basis while looking forward to the medium term, okay, where am I going to live in six months time and what's that going to look like? And will my child be in school and starting to think about the future?
- [06:10]
Arthur Scott Geddes
So we've done a lot of reporting on the famine and the shortages of food. The UN recently announced that for the first time, enough food was getting in to cover the very minimum needs of the population in. Is this working now, this process of getting in enough food, or is there still a lot more that needs to be done?
- [06:26]
Tess Ingram
It's good news that we're getting more in and like the winter response, families are getting more access to food. And when I talk to parents, they do speak about going from that terrible situation that we saw in the middle and, you know, third quarter of last year where families were lining up at a food kitchen. We all saw those pictures with a bowl, waiting hours to get a small bit of rice and lentils. The problem we have now is that while more supplies are coming in, the prices are still remaining stubbornly high, particularly for nutritious foods like proteins and animal products, dairy. And so we need to see the volume of food aid continue to flow in at scale so that those prices drop even further. Because when I talk to families, they still tell me I can't afford what's in the markets. And that's why, unfortunately, we're still seeing stubbornly high rates of malnutrition in kids, but also in pregnant women. And that will have a knock on effect because as we know, if a pregnant woman is malnourished, the baby's likely born early or underweight.
- [07:27]
Veneesha Rainey
How much is getting in compared to how much you'd like to get in? Are we able to sort of put a percentage on what is waiting at the border, is getting in or something like that? And what are the barriers? We spoke a lot over the last few years about Israeli restrictions on certain dual use goods that could come in, you know, NICU units for babies and stuff like that. Is that still happening?
- [07:46]
Tess Ingram
UNICEF is bringing in at the moment, on average about 300% more in terms of pallets than we were before the ceasefire. So that's a, that's a significant increase. It is good, but we're coming off a low base, so we were not getting very much in. So 300% increase from a low base is good. It's almost as much as we would want to bring in every day. We could bring in a few more trucks every day. And the issue we find is that we have the trucks what we call manifested or saying. We're saying we're ready, we've got them loaded, this is what's inside them. But often the screening process at the borders is slow or there are issues with the trucks. And so we don't always get in the number of trucks that we would like to every day. I think right now we've got something like 900 trucks ready to come in. But it's not just about the volume of trucks. And I think this is really important. It's also about what's on those trucks. And so to your point, there are still items that we would like to get in that we aren't always able to get in, particularly at the scale that we would like to. There is this thing called dual use, and that's an Israeli term for something that they believe could be used for military purposes. Items like generators, like batteries and like pipes that we use in these water and sanitation system repairs. They're things that we have consistently struggled to get in. So we'd like to see more of that.
- [09:04]
Veneesha Rainey
What would the opening of the Rafah crossing, if it does reopen, what impact would that have? I've seen reporting that it's going to be pedestrian only and that no goods will be allowed in. Is that your understanding?
- [09:13]
Tess Ingram
That's the understanding at the moment, yeah. And we'd like to see, of course, it be open in both directions for pedestrians so that people can come and go. It's a really critical corridor for medical evacuations, so that's important. But also for aid, it was the main aid corridor and we haven't had that access since May 2024.
- [09:33]
Veneesha Rainey
So all aid is currently going in via Israel rather than Egypt. That would be the only other country where aid could route in via. Is that right?
- [09:38]
Tess Ingram
That's right. So, yeah, we really want to see Rafah open for all of those reasons, but it needs to be done in a way where people have the confidence that if they leave, they have the right to return.
- [09:50]
Veneesha Rainey
I was reading sort of official UN stats and I think the number of interceptions, you know, technical speak for stuff being looted, I guess, en route, which was a huge story last year, has gone down massively, which sounds like good news. Do you still see some examples of that? And what kind of interactions do you have with Hamas in terms of organising distribution of aid? Are there any sort of restrictions that they place on where aid can go and where it can't?
- [10:12]
Tess Ingram
The looting of aid was a massive challenge for us and it was at that peak where people were so desperate they didn't know where the next meal was coming from. Then we saw when the ceasefire came into effect and the volume of aid coming into Gaza increased, we saw the looting decrease. And so that's great. And now it's almost non existent. It's very rare. It also, I think, happened that there was more security personnel, if you like, on the streets, Hamas police, which were helping with crowd control. In terms of. If they dictate where and when we're distributing aid. No, we're really, you know, deciding where the communities are that are in need. And we're going straight from the crossing to our partners, and they're our partners, we distribute to the door. It's not always a door. Sometimes it's a tent, sometimes it's a nutrition centre or a hospital. But we really are going from the crossing, right, to, you know, the women and children in their places of refuge.
- [11:13]
Arthur Scott Geddes
I was wondering if you could just outline what you feel the most urgent priorities are for improving people's lives.
- [11:18]
Tess Ingram
For us, making sure that people have access to safe water is massive because our priority is to help people return to where they want to live. Now, at the moment, of course, that's restricted because this so called Yellow line prevents people from moving to the eastern part of the Gaza Strip. But in that western side of Gaza Strip where the vast majority if not all of the population are at the moment, people want to be able to return to places in the very north, like Baitlachia, where I was just a few weeks ago with these families. But to do that they need water because you can't survive without water. So we really are repairing water systems as a priority to make sure that people can be where they want to be and that they have access to water. And I think one mum explained it really well to me. I was talking to her and she said, you know, for the past two years I've lived in fear, but now I have a new fear and that is that the water truck came today, but it might not come tomorrow and it might not come the next day. And I think that's where people's heads are, is trying to find a way to exist in complete devastation where the systems that they need to survive, like healthcare and water and sanitation, have been torn apart.
- [12:29]
Veneesha Rainey
My understanding is that since the ceasefire there is still military activity going on in Gaza. I'm wondering what your experiences were around that. According to Gaza's Hamas run health ministry, nearly 500 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli strikes over the past three months. And that includes I think just over 100 children which you mentioned earlier. How regular does it feel? Is this all stuff happening around the so called yellow line that's demarcating where Palestinian and Israeli controlled areas meet or is it happening across Gaza?
- [12:56]
Tess Ingram
It's happening across Gaza and also in proximity to the yellow line. I have met children who've been injured during the ceasefire and it's devastating because I think we would all agree that in a ceasefire no child should be killed and injured. And a child, you know, what should a day look like for them? They should be able to sleep safely, wake up, have a shower, something to eat and go to school. And of those five things, I think children probably have two at the moment. And one of them is that the safety is not guaranteed. Maybe they're having the drink and the bite to eat before they go to school if they can. But that safety, it's still in the back of parents minds. You still hear the drones, you still hear the explosions. I spoke to a friend in Gaza this morning, she lives in Deir El Bala. She said it was very loud there with strikes last night. So yeah, a hundred, more than 110 children in just over 100 days. That's a child a day and that is not what we should be seeing during a ceasefire. I met a little girl called Tala and she was in her grandparents house near the Yellow line in mid to late October when there was a strike on that house. And she was buried underneath the rubble. And she's five years old and she was stuck underneath the rubble for 24 hours until she was pulled out. And her family who she was with, they were all killed and she was burnt and she had broken bones. And this is in a ceasefire.
- [14:24]
Arthur Scott Geddes
And it's not just, I suppose, ongoing violence that's threatening these children. We've also written about the issues posed by unexploded ordnance. Is that something you have experience of? Is that something that's still an ongoing concern?
- [14:35]
Tess Ingram
It is. Particularly when we talk, for example, about wanting to expand our learning program. To do that we need space to put up these big, we call them high performance tents, but they're like, you know, these white wedding marquees, those kind of hard pieces of tarpaulin. And we have to clear rubble and we have to make sure that there's no unexploded ordnance there. It's a problem and, you know, that slows our expansion, particularly because space in Gaza is so limited. The population is crammed into half of the Gaza Strip. There's still massive amounts of rubble on the ground. But it also poses a danger to children who are just running around and playing in the rubble. I met twins, Yahya and Nabila and they were playing in the rubble when they picked up something that they thought they could play with. I think their mum said that they thought it looked like a tuna can and it was an unexploded something. And they both had terrible abdominal injuries and were in hospital. One of them had an amputation as a result of the explosion and ultimately Nabila died and Yahya has since been evacuated for medical care. But these are just two of so many kids and those risks exist for more children. I think the other danger in the rubble at the moment is families are seeking shelter in the shells of buildings. And we're seeing in this winter weather, buildings collapse on families as well, which is devastating. But it's an impossible choice for a parent. Do you stay in an inadequate makeshift shelter or a tent where, you know, we know that 10 babies have died from hypothermia this winter? Or do you try and find some semblance of a building knowing that it can crash down around you?
- [16:17]
Veneesha Rainey
There's another element that girls and children are having to deal with and that's this issue of orphaned children. And I'm wondering how much you guys are seeing that and what, I mean, what help can UNICEF provide orphaned children? I mean, we saw the term wounded child, no surviving family come out of this conflict. The final death toll was more than 70,000 according to the Hamas run health ministry. And thousands of those will be parents. How is UNICEF helping orphaned kids?
- [16:39]
Tess Ingram
I've met children who are caring for their younger siblings more than I would like. And I've met amazing, mostly women who have taken in extended family, nieces and nephews who have become orphaned. I think in Gaza there is really strong extended family, which is so important. And as unicef, our response is when we find a child whose parents have been killed, tracing the extended family to see if we can find somebody who's close to the child that can look after them. And we call it kinship care. And to us that's the best approach. Failing that, we work with local partners on the ground who take care of children who have no family. And yeah, there are likely thousands of children. We don't use the term wounded child, no surviving family. We use unaccompanied and separated children. And in some cases that can include a child who's lost and maybe we can trace somebody and reconnect them. But in other cases, they're children who have lost everything and are the sole survivors of their family.
- [17:49]
Veneesha Rainey
Just finally, I'm wondering what you think are the big challenges going forward. We've talked about a lot of them and how optimistic are you that things will continue to improve? We've heard Donald Trump talking about his board of peace. We're entering the second phase of the peace deal now that the final hostage body has been recovered. Rafa, border crossing opening. Okay, just for pedestrians, but it's a start. Do you feel like things are moving in the right direction?
- [18:10]
Tess Ingram
I think that there's momentum and that momentum has to lead us one, to a lasting peace. That's imperative. But two, to a people focused Palestinian led reconstruction of all of the Gaza Strip, not just half of it. We, it's critical. And when I talk to people in Gaza about what they think about what's happening now, and that's so important, not enough people are saying, hi, people of Gaza, what do you think? They say to me, I just want to be able to know that the bombs are going to stop falling, that the drones will go quiet, one, two, that the crossings will open and that we will have choice to leave, to reunite with loved ones or get medical care and return. And three, that I can build my own home or be part of that process in the place that I want to. If I want to go back to Rafah or Khan Younis or Baitlachia, that I can choose to do that and be in my community again. I think we've got some way to go before those dreams are realised. And I really do hope that the international community continues to put pressure in the right places to see that happen. Because ultimately we're talking about Gaza's kids again. You know, we're unicef. What do the children of Gaza want? And they want to be able to remain in Gaza and have a normal life. And that looks like sleeping safely, going to school, living in a community with their friends and families and doing the things that they love to do. I think we often forget that the kids of Gaza were doing ballet classes and playing footy a couple of years ago. They tell me about the ice cream shops that they miss and, you know, that's what we've got to get back to.
- [19:50]
Veneesha Rainey
Ter Ingram, UNICEF spokesperson, thank you very much for joining us on battlelines.
- [19:55]
Arthur Scott Geddes
After the break, Paul Newqui takes us inside Trump's board of Peace.
- [20:07]
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- [21:44]
Arthur Scott Geddes
Welcome back. You're listening to Battle Lines Global Health Security. So we're joined now by Paul Newqui, the Telegraph's global health security editor, who's going to take us through what's going on with Trump's Board of Peace. Paul, welcome to Battle Lines.
- [21:56]
Paul Newqui
Thank you.
- [21:57]
Arthur Scott Geddes
So for listeners who perhaps haven't been following the latest, what is the Board of Peace and why was it set up in the first place?
- [22:03]
Paul Newqui
Well, the border peace originally was to be the device that oversaw the 20 point peace plan for Gaza that both Israel and Hamas signed up to last year. It has since become much more grand. The Board of Peace, people say, its critics say, has aspirations to become the new UN Trump himself, the president perhaps of the known world, will be there forever. And he also has absolute veto over all the board's activities. So it's become much more controversial in the last week or two.
- [22:42]
Veneesha Rainey
And there's a kind of three part structure, right? You've got his sort of executive Board of peace which has Marco Rubio, Tony Blair, Jared Kushner, his son in law. And then you've got a Gaza executive board which also has Tony Blair for maybe reasons we can get onto, and then a sort of Qatari diplomat, a Turkish foreign minister and a bunch of other sort of more Middle Eastern focused figures. And then below that you've got a sort of technocratic Palestinian board which is going to deal with the day to day. Is that about right? Where are we supposed to look for the significant bit?
- [23:11]
Paul Newqui
Yeah. So originally there was going to be a technocratic committee in Gaza made up of Palestinians overseeing Gaza, and then a board of peace external to Gaza, but advising that technocratic committee. So that's where they started. And as you say now it's morphed into various different levels, four in total, I think. And people look at it in different ways. Some say, well, it's gone completely sideways. The big board at the top is a grab for the UN etc, etc, and Trump's thing. Others say, well, maybe that's a classic Trump distraction technique. And yes, he's got this mad board which Putin may join and Netanyahu and others wanted for war crimes, but actually what he's really got is what he's always wanted, an executive Board of Peace run by Tony Blair and others who make a bit more sense, Kushner and others who've been directly involved in the process. And yes, he's got this technocratic board made up of Palestinians, which people really haven't complained about as it's been announced. So maybe you could see the big board of pieces, a distraction. And he's got what he's wanted all along and people have taken their eyes off that. Certainly there's a reporting that Netanyahu is furious that these junior levels have been constituted as they have, with, as you say, Turkish and Qatari representation, which he'd always opposed, end up at a Board of Peace itself is getting all the attention. And worse for him, he couldn't turn up to Geneva to be there because guess what? He would be arrested for charges of possible genocide.
- [25:02]
Veneesha Rainey
Stop the Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, from going in his place.
- [25:05]
Paul Newqui
Yes. So he apparently, apparently stopped the President going in his place, which seems a bit odd, but the reporting is that he did that because he's cross about Turkey and Qatar being represented on the lower board.
- [25:18]
Veneesha Rainey
I guess that gives you an insight already into some of the political schisms within this Board of Peace. And we should also say that a bunch of countries have said they won't participate. The uk, France, Canada, Norway. So it's not going to be a rival UN yet anyway. How much progress do you think this Board of Peace is going to be able to make in terms of solving the Israeli Palestinian conflict? Or perhaps a bit more small in terms of solving the current Gaza conflict, which we are still seeing ongoing airstrikes. We've entered the second phase of the peace deal, but it's not clear how, if anything, we'll reach a more permanent resolution.
- [25:52]
Paul Newqui
I'm by nature optimistic about it. I have been from the start. I've always thought the 20 point plan actually quite clever. I think it's got enough detail to pull people together without so much that it would never be implemented. And I think that it's also true to say that, broadly speaking, it's held. And now we're seeing this second phase move into effect. The first phase was all about the release of hostages. The live hostages were released just this week. We've seen the very last corpse found and repatriated. So that part has worked. We've also now got this technocratic committee in place and we've got the sub board to the Board of Peace with some pretty sensible people on it, to be fair. The other thing that's happened, I think it's Quite well reported, is that the US Command, which is now sitting there in Israel, has, over the last few months, really got a grip on the idf. And some of the excesses that we were seeing at the beginning have stopped or at least slowed. I think that the Americans have a grip, and I think that there's a genuine will to make sure it works. Surprise at the end of it, of course, is this, you know, great building enterprise, a new Costa on the Mediterranean, which could make people a lot of money. There's nothing wrong with making money. And it could make Palestinians not only money, but, you know, create a life for them that they could only dream of. Early on in this process, you know, before the whole peace process got going, the Blair Institute that was doing a lot of polling in Gaza, found that if you ask Gazans what they wanted most, if they could dream a bit, they would like to see Gaza become the new Dubai of the Middle East.
- [27:44]
Arthur Scott Geddes
Let's dig into that a little bit more. We've seen recently what's been described as a US master plan for the future of Gaza, including 180 town blocks, parks, agriculture, sports facilities. I mean, you've been into the Strip since the war. Do you think any of that's a realistic possibility, or is it just a pipe dream?
- [28:01]
Paul Newqui
Well, again, you can look at it fatalistically and say, well, the place is in ruins, which it is. You know, it's rubble and desert and poorly sanitized refugee camps. It's terrible. That's a negative way to look at it if you're a builder. Well, you know, it's pretty easy to clear. It is desert, after all. It sits on a coast, a historic strategic location next to some of the richest nations in the world. So you can look at it both directions. And it is certainly true, I think, to say that when I was leaving university, it would be very hard to imagine Dubai springing out of the desert and becoming what it is today, or indeed Riyadh.
- [28:45]
Arthur Scott Geddes
So one of the big ifs before that can happen, and one of the big ifs of this phase of the peace deal is this process of disarming Hamas, or should I say putting their weapons beyond use. How difficult is this proving and why is the language used to describe it so important?
- [28:58]
Paul Newqui
Well, I think that it's not fair to describe it as difficult just yet, because that phase of the plan is only just starting. You know, Hamas has got to surrender, first of all, its political influence, and it has done that. And this new technocratic committee is taking over the running of Gaza and Hamas should have nothing to do with the running of Gaza. Now, the guns, the plan says, should be surrendered over a period of time. They're not using words like surrender or even disarm. It's decommissioning. It's being weapons put beyond use. The language of the Northern Ireland process, the Good Friday Agreement, and that's really important because soldiers have been forced to surrender on battlefields for centuries, stripped of their arms, stripped of their clothing, often manacled, marched off. You know, that is a language of war. This is a peace plan, is trying to build a peace, and therefore you don't want to provoke humiliation. And just as in Northern Ireland, the IRA's arsenal was gradually decommissioned over six or seven years, quietly away from the cameras, but overseen by a trusted intermediary, the Canadian General de Chastelin, we could expect, I think, to see a similar process happening in Gaza. The Israelis, of course, are much more cynical about it, with good reason. You know, Hamas has done some pretty horrendous things, not just on October 7, but long beyond that. And it's, in many people's view, a cult that is unlikely to change its ways. We'll have to see. But the idea is to get them to disarm gradually over time so that eventually it is no longer a terrorist group within Gaza, but part of the broader body politic.
- [30:59]
Veneesha Rainey
And this is clearly a really big issue. I was reading today that the UN Human Rights in the occupied Palestinian territories said it's recorded at least 80 reported killings of Palestinians by Hamas since the ceasefire, mostly in clashes with rival families and summary executions. So these weapons are bad for Palestinians, too. This isn't just Israel saying this?
- [31:17]
Paul Newqui
Absolutely. I mean, Hamas is a terrorist group and a gang, just in the same way that the IRA was a terrorist group and a gang. The IRA did the most horrendous things to people in Northern Ireland who it regarded as traitors, or even some that it regarded as drug dealers. It would do this horrible kneecapping of them. And that's how terrorist groups enforce their rule, through fear and terror. It's not all directed at Israel. And so, yes, the decommissioning of its arms, the bringing of it gradually away from a terrorist organization to something that is more acceptable to the body politic would be good all round. Absolutely.
- [32:01]
Veneesha Rainey
Israel has to hold elections by October this year.
- [32:03]
Paul Newqui
It does, yeah.
- [32:04]
Veneesha Rainey
Whose Likud Party is, I think, second in the polls behind Bennett's party. What impact do you think that will have on the peace process in Gaza?
- [32:11]
Paul Newqui
It's delicate, really. Really delicate. Netanyahu is under a huge amount of pressure from Bennett, who is not attacking, as many people assume, from the center or even the left, but the right. He's right of Netanyahu. You know, he regards, if you believe his rhetoric, that the inclusion of Turks and Qataris on these boards, you know, as an absolute betrayal, not by Trump, but by Netanyahu, who's allowed it. So Netanyahu is under huge pressure and you wouldn't be surprised if he found a way to upset the peace process to make clear that he was not kowtowing, not a vassal of Americas as this process goes on. But on the other hand, what would Bennett bring? Many people think that Bennett's rhetoric at the moment is pumped up simply to win votes and Israel has moved massively to the right over the last two years. But on the other hand, it shouldn't be forgotten. Bennett once ran the west bank for Israel and was very much a pioneer of the idea that Israel should take that over despite the international treaties and whatnot.
- [33:30]
Arthur Scott Geddes
So given its broader scope and also perhaps given the fact that he's struggled to attract, you know, many countries to join it, do you see the Board of Peace having a life beyond this conflict and do you think it could stabilize and solve some other conflicts around the world?
- [33:44]
Paul Newqui
I think that the top level Board of Peace, the board to which Putin's been invited, et cetera, et cetera, it's hard to imagine that is really going to take on a life of its own. There is just so much that is wrong with it, governance wise, that European nations like Britain, like France, like Germany, it seems to me, are very unlikely to join. Even Italy, you know, which is a little bit Trump adjacent with Meloni at the helm, has said no for the moment, albeit in that case citing a technical reason, which is that it's against the Italian constitution, which has some rather special rules protecting against fascism because of its history. So I think it's quite hard to see that board taking off. If I had to bet on it, I would say that it's going to be around for a little while. It'll probably wither. But the real meat in the process is the executive board of the Board of Peace. Hopefully that will remain solid and last long enough to see this rebuilding process in Gaza started.
- [34:57]
Arthur Scott Geddes
Paul Newqui, thank you for joining us on Battle lines.
- [34:59]
Paul Newqui
Thank you.
- [35:00]
Veneesha Rainey
Well, aside from Trump's Board of Peace, I feel like there was something to be quietly optimistic about there with that earlier chat with Tess. The story around Gaza has been so unendingly depressing that it was good to hear that aid is going in and there are improvements being made and it's not fixed by any stretch of the imagination, but that's better than it was before, definitely.
- [35:20]
Arthur Scott Geddes
I mean, you know, it is uplifting to hear that, you know, people are able to make a difference these people's lives and that more stuff is getting in ultimately. Like she said, though, there are huge problems that remain and it will be interesting to see how it pans out for the rest of the year.
- [35:32]
Veneesha Rainey
I think as well the contrast between these two halves of the podcast where you've got Tess talking about, you know, families in these freezing tents and a teacher writing on the side of a tarp to give a lesson to some kids. And then you've got Trump's Board of Peace unveiled with all of its glitz and glamour at Davos last week, with all of these autocratic leaning leaders filing up to shake his hand and display this big shiny piece of paper that says World of Peace. And by the way, have you seen the logo? It looks almost exactly like the UN's, only they've made it gold and the world map has been tilted so it's just focused on North America. I think the contrast between those two sort of worlds feels enormous and that makes me worried for what kind of real progress there'll be. That's all for today's episode of Battlelines Global Health Security. We'll be back again on Friday. Until then, goodbye.
- [36:18]
Arthur Scott Geddes
Goodbye.
- [36:19]
Veneesha Rainey
Battle Lines is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles and hosted by me, Venetia Raney and and Arthur Scott Geddes. If you appreciated this podcast, please consider following Battle Lines on your preferred podcast app. And if you have a moment, leave a review as it helps others find the show. To stay on top of all of our news, subscribe to the Telegraph, sign up to our Global Health newsletter or listen to our sister podcast Ukraine the latest. You can also get in touch directly by emailing battle linestelegraph.co.uk or contact us on X. You can find our handles in the show Notes. The producer is Sophie and o'. Sullivan. The Executive producer is Louisa Wells. Telegraph's Global Health Security team is supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
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