A (2:02)

So that includes just. It's kind of like someone that's on the go that needs to, like, I have a meeting to get to or wherever they need to go, and it's just something super quick. I have never heard of that.

B (2:12)

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's really good. And obviously we have still all the modalities that we would do, except if it's an abbreviated amount of time. So just getting it like in and out and what we found is that like making it a lot less and a lot less time and a lot less money is actually people are, you know, doing it with every six weeks when they're getting their brows done.

A (2:33)

Wow. So you just also from charging the 600, you just cost that amount in half and then just put it into the. Wow. Yeah. So have you always been in the LA area?

B (2:46)

Yes, always in la. Recently I've been working a lot in Salt Lake City because I've been partnering with this brand, which I'm sure we're going to talk about. And I have clients in New York as well, but yeah, always in la.

A (2:59)

So tell me about this new spot that you have that you relocated.

B (3:03)

Yes, we actually just moved into a new hq. So we have Brown Studio, the salons, and then we have Brown Studio Pro, which is our pro collection of products. So we put it into one HQ in downtown LA and we took over this, like, big, beautiful spot. I have my own office for once. Yeah, it's so nice. I was working from home for like four days, three and a half days out of the week, and I just felt like there was a disconnect between my team and, you know, I was like firing off text messages, them like, we need to do this, we need to do this. And I'm like, okay, we need to be somewhere where we're all working together on like the brand. We're creating content together. So yeah, we just moved into our new HQ and it is beautiful. It's almost done. It's taking a long time to build out because we did everything from scratch.

A (3:47)

Oh my God. The build out is insane. Yeah, yeah. Because I built this out so I can imagine over there. It's insane. So how many people do you have working with you right now total? Like, what's your team?

B (3:58)

Right now I have five studio artists and then for our support team and for Pro, I think that we have an another six. Yeah. So we have a total of 11. And I'm just kind of like haven't been in the mood to hire a lot of people. Yeah, you know, I've just, I've gone through having really big teams and managing big teams, but now I just like, I'm more focusing on a more intimate team, so it feels really good.

A (4:22)

Yeah. Do you have them as like employees or anyone boost friends from you or.

B (4:29)

My artists are employees and then our support teams are like a mix of like contractors, employees. Yeah.

A (4:37)

Look at him. He's A boss. Okay. How did you position yourself as a go to brow expert?

B (4:45)

Honestly, you know, I don't post as much content as I want to these days, but I was just on it every single day. Every day, all day. You know, like 10 and even five years ago. I mean, I go through my little spouts now where I, like, I'm really good with content, and then I go through, like, a lot where I'm just like, too busy. But I was honestly just on it every day, all day. I was like, always educating. Now I'm educating for my brand and educating other artists and students because we partner with a lot of schools, but really it just started with educating my clients. Like, okay, if you're going to come in for brow shaping, this is what you want to do. You want to get off your actives for, you know, like up to a week. So I was always just kind of like talking to my camera and I don't know, it was giving educator back then. People are like, he knows what he's talking about.

A (5:30)

I don't know.

B (5:30)

Yeah.

A (5:31)

Did you, when you started, like, working with these schools, was it something that you just wanted to educate up new upcoming estheticians on learning? Like, because they don't teach you anything, right?

B (5:42)

They really don't. No. I mean, when I was in school, I got to see a demo from like a substitute teacher of just a bra wax, a brow wax, and that was it. And this was like, you know, a long time ago, like 15 plus years ago. But with having the brand, I mean, we have so many schools that want to work with us. And that's something that I feel like we're teaching the new generation of, like, how to do these things because there's also a lot of holes. And that's something that we're learning is that a lot of esthetician teachers, they're like, very focused on, like, facials and, you know, like waxing. But people don't know how to do brows. People are uncomfortable with doing brows. So we have Brow you Brow University, and that's kind of like our online platform and like all of our training classes. But yeah, we do, like, white glove trainings for schools and for other professionals too.

A (6:26)

So do you go in and just teach them the, like, obviously your brow lamination and all that stuff?

B (6:32)

Yeah, brow lamination, lash lift, classic brow shaping tinting, which is new for us too, because I just launched a new collab collection. Yeah. So those four courses. And then we have certified, certified pro trainers that work for brow down, like across the US there's, there's like 30 of them.

A (6:49)

So do. When was it last year that it finally was a. Because we were not supposed to use brow tinting or something, right?

B (6:59)

Yeah, I don't think our scope changed since like 1979 or something. So it was just like last year that we got approved for actually doing tinting. I mean, tinting, like, you know, I've been tinting for a while.

A (7:09)

Yeah.

B (7:09)

And I had like a little hidden box that I would just have in case skateboard came in. You know, Working on this tint line too, I learned the difference between compliant and approved. And there are certain ingredients. Like, like a silver night tree.

A (7:23)

Is that.

B (7:24)

Yeah. So. Because we work with, I mean we work with like 30 plus schools and we have them in different states too. So like all the different states have different limitations for what they can do. But just being able to have like the four courses, lash lift, brow lamination, classic brow shaping and the tint, it's like you're going to learn something about brows and lashes if you're partnering with

A (7:42)

us and you hear here first, okay, what's harder? Building clients or building a brand People trust?

B (7:49)

Building a brand people trust. Yeah.

A (7:51)

Really?

B (7:52)

Yeah. I mean, building clients, like, you know, I think if you're talented, if you're someone that like takes the courses, like, you know what you're doing and if you build that, if you build that trust with your client, like, you will have a client for life. Right. They. And one thing that I learned about building a clientele is that once you build the trust with them, they only want to support you. They only want to do what you recommend as the professional. Building a brand, on the other hand, is hard because there's a lot of legal, legalities, there's a lot of marketing. Working with pros is very, very challenging too because, you know, we, we have tried a lot of products and we're a little bit harder to impress. Whereas. Yeah, you know, you can, you can show a client how to use a brow pencil. Like, oh my God, my life is changed forever, you know? Yeah. But it's like as a brand, you're like, okay, this is why you need this brow pencil and this is why it's going to change your life. And this is why you're going to use this to build your business. Because that' living as a brand. We're supporting other businesses that are building brands.

A (8:49)

That's so true. That is so true. What, what made you decide to launch products instead of just services? I have so many juicy questions. I'M just trying to get through them.

B (9:01)

Yeah. You know what it was? I'll give you the kind of the short version of it, but basically, I was one of the first brow artists in LA to do brow lamination. And that's what really blew me up during COVID I did not stop working. I worked the whole time. In fact, I blew up during COVID and I was partnering with this other brand and I had a contract with them as an educator. And then the contract was over, and it didn't end the way that I would like it to end, but I was like, okay, people are still wanting to train with me, you know, and at the time, I was having people come from all everywhere, fly in everywhere to train with me to learn brow lamination.

A (9:38)

But then.

B (9:39)

But through them, okay. I mean, I think just to learn brow laminations, it was so new. And I was like, okay, well, I need product. Like, what am I going to do? I'm not going to use this brand anymore. Like, they don't, you know, the relationship is done. But I was like, okay, well, what if I come out with my own product? And then I had someone that reached out to me via email. They're like, we've seen your Instagram. We know you're doing brow lamination. Nobody does it in la or no one does it in the States. Like, we're trying to build the brand. Do you have any interest in creating your own? And I was like, yeah. And it just came at the right time that I just, like, went with it.

A (10:09)

Yeah.

B (10:09)

So in a way, I didn't know that I was launching the brand until I was, like, knee deep in it, that I'm like, shit, like, this is happening. I launched a second business.

A (10:19)

And you. You started. You went straight into launching the brownie, but you launched or other things first.

B (10:25)

Yeah, well, it started with brow lamination. I mean, we had styling products, we had like a brow. We had brow pencils. But brow lamination, the system really is like, kind of like what started everything. And it's made in Italy, too, so just never working with an international distributor, too. Yeah, there was, like, so much that I learned.

A (10:43)

So how long did it take you to build that?

B (10:47)

Well, I launched it coming up on five years ago, and I have to say, too, this, I'm going to be very vulnerable because I'm on beauty with a twist. Yeah, there's a beauty with this exclusive. But when I first launched, we launched with airless tubes. And airless tubes are, you know, like the pump tubes.

A (11:04)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (11:05)

Okay. So I had no idea that when every time you pump a tube you get air in it. So what does that do for step one? It completely deactivates it.

A (11:14)

Yeah.

B (11:15)

So I had built this relationship with all these students. You know, I had this big following as the brow lamination expert and we had all this faulty product, you know. So my first batch of people that bought my product, they were all faulty product, you know. So now if you see we have a quadruple coated aluminum, aluminum tube. But that first batch, I feel like I lost a lot of respect at that time. So really getting it back was a lot.

A (11:40)

Wait, I think, I think I got the first batch when I. You had an event. And I remember because the one I have right now, the system's not like that.

B (11:52)

No, it's changed now and it's like does, it's completely eris, does not oxidize. But yeah, that's something that I have never told anybody. But it basically I started off in like the major negative because of that mistake that happened and I had to like recover from that.

A (12:08)

Oh my. So did you post any? Oh, obviously you didn't talk about it. So like what were you telling the people that were purchasing it? Like what?

B (12:14)

I mean, we, we, we did everything that we could with customer service. You know, we, I, I, I went through a lot. It was almost kind of like pr. What is that called?

A (12:22)

Like, oh, like, yeah, I get you.

B (12:25)

What is that called?

A (12:26)

Pr? You didn't come up with an apology video though?

B (12:29)

I didn't come up with an apology, No, I didn't. But I did on the emails and I reached out to every single person and I called every single person and I was like, listen, I want to let you know that like the integrity is there. And like my, you know, like my, I wanted to have the most amazing thing, but we messed up and let us make it up to you. So we, I was able to actually send a new batch to every single person that got that faulty batch. And then we won most of our customers back, thank God. But I mean it just really like starting the brand off that way, it was really rocky.

A (13:01)

So did you start like one of the messages first started coming in. Did you already realize it on your own or kind of like how did that.

B (13:09)

It just started one day and then all of a sudden it just like every day we were getting multiple people, multiple people, multiple people. And you know, we were using it in salon too, but because we do so many services, we were pulling from fresh batches. You know, like most, you Know, we were going through, like, one to five tubes a week, so we didn't really even see it. But then we did our testing and everything too, and then we're like, okay, wow.

A (13:34)

So, well, that you heard it here first fold. What mindset shift helped you level up most?

B (13:43)

I think accountability. That taught me, like, major accountability because I had the option to either quit and pull the plug, but I had invested so many hundred, you know, thousands of dollars.

A (13:55)

Yeah.

B (13:55)

And I always joke and I always say, like, I could have bought myself a house, but I bought myself a brand. Really, though? Yeah. So accountability for one, and just being able to own my mistakes, for one. And then just, like, being relentless, you know, like, just knowing that I could have crumbled at that one point, but just knowing that, like, okay, I gotta keep going, you know, I gotta pivot, I gotta own it, and then I gotta be better.

A (14:20)

Did you ever deal with imposter syndrome, even at your level?

B (14:24)

I deal with it every day. Oh, yeah. I mean, I still am thinking, like, what the hell? Like, I'm just a kid from Whittier, California. You know, if people know where you're from, it's like, very suburb. It's very, you know, and I just think, like, wow, how do I have, like, four businesses? Three businesses? And how am I just having. You know, I don't know. I. I pinch myself every day, but I know that, like, when I'm in it and what I'm doing.

A (14:50)

Yeah.

B (14:50)

Feels good. So it's just quickly reminds me that, like, you're not an imposter. You're doing what you're supposed to do.

A (14:56)

What are you supposed to be doing?

B (14:57)

Yeah.

A (14:58)

And did you know, like, coming into this business when you first started becoming an esthetician, that it was gonna be the way it is now? Like, did you always say, okay, I'm just gonna stick to facials?

B (15:09)

Like, no, I mean, I knew that I loved browsing facials. Like, that was. Those two things were, like, always easy. And I wouldn't even say easy, because it's not easy. Right. I mean, you can still come across a client that has, like, the most, like, puzzle, hard skin type to, you know, to fix. Same thing with brows. You have people that are working on themselves, and you're like, girl, what am I gonna do with these brows? Right. So there are some brows that are impossible. But I don't know, for some reason, it just felt like a fun challenge for me. It didn't feel like something that would take me out, you know?

A (15:37)

Now this goes to my Next question. How do you handle competition or comparison in this industry?

B (15:44)

Well, you. You limit your scrolling time. For one. I don't observe a lot of. I don't observe a lot of content personally just to maintain my own creativity. And when I feel like I'm observing too much content, I, like, take myself out of it, because what I value most is my creativity and my perspective, and that's something that I always remember. Like, when I feel like I have, like, comparison or whatever, I'm just like, this is not good. This is not going to end well, you know, And I just got to stay on my own path.

A (16:13)

So do you think you scrolling on Instagram is kind of like. For example, I had a guest on this podcast and she was mentioning when she's on Instagram and she's scrolling, it's kind of like, why hasn't she posted today? And this person's posting this many stories, kind of, you know, again, comparing themselves.

B (16:31)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Or, you know, I look at other people that haven't been in this industry long enough that are maybe doing better than I am, too. But, you know, I. For me, it's also. I have to remind myself this is the long game, you know, Like, I'm. I'm building a brand. I'm building a legacy. I'm not just like someone that's trying to make some quick money.

A (16:48)

Mike drop. No, but it's true. I feel like your. Your content, I'm gonna say it's a lot more. It's educational for sure, but I feel like how you were saying, like, a lot of your posts, it's just like you building a brand. It's just not really, like these funny skits all the time. I mean, here and there is cool, but, like, it's not really what I see on your page. No.

B (17:10)

Yeah.

A (17:10)

So I really like that. Okay.

B (17:12)

Yeah.

A (17:12)

What keeps you motivated now that you're already made?

B (17:16)

Well, I say saying that I already made it is kind of wild because I don't know, I think I'm still me.

A (17:21)

Dropped a crown. Okay. Yes. You. I feel like if you don't know who you are in this industry, it's kind of like. Well, yeah, so everyone knows who you are. So.

B (17:32)

Yeah. You know what I think? Well, I like being busy, for one. I don't come from, like, a lot of money. I come from nothing, actually. So I think just being able to, you know, have the life that I love, I think motivates me. I think peace in my life motivates me more than anything, you know? Like, I. I do work a lot. Like I told you, I work like 16 hours, like six days a week. But that's okay. I have a lot more energy than most people and Big Aries energy. Exactly. I'm an Aries, so if anybody know. But yeah, no, I think what motivates me is just like, peace in my life and being able to provide for the people that I love and have taken care of me.

A (18:12)

Mm.

B (18:12)

Yeah.

A (18:12)

Okay, now I want to get into some, like, the controversial questions. I want to keep it juicy because I'm meeting with the twist. We get juicy. Okay, what's something in the beauty industry that you think is overhyped right now?

B (18:24)

I'm gonna say the thing that is overhyped is like, serial entrepreneurship. Like, I see so many. And this is from someone that is like an entrepreneur putting myself out there, you know, having multiple businesses. I see so many beauty professionals that are launching products like, every other day and not really following through with things. You know, it's almost kind of like I have 37 businesses and you're going to buy from every single one. You know, it just reminds me of, like a time when. And this was me at the beginning too, but it reminds me of a time when I was just trying to throw everything at the wall to see what would stick. I think there was, like, no focus and no follow through. And now, well, first of all, my mistakes are so expensive now. Now when I make mistakes, like, and the way that we do it, we want to do it in a big way. So it costs a lot of money to like, launch things. So I think that's what stops me from being all over the place. But I think the overhyped in the beauty industry is, I think, the serial entrepreneurship.

A (19:21)

Oh, my gosh, that is so true. I've seen so many brands. Not even. I'm just talking about brows, but I'm talking about, like, skincare brands that I get overstimulated of seeing so many different cleansers that kind of do the same thing. Or like, why do we need 15 serums in this brand?

B (19:40)

Right.

A (19:40)

Why do I have to. I'm a very simple person. So I just like to like cleansers and exfoliators and serums. And I don't. I don't want to go on your website and have to scroll through so many items.

B (19:55)

Like shiny object syndrome. Yeah, yeah. There was a quote that I read recently from Warren Buffett, and it was like, you have to write down 10 things that you really want to build on your business, and then Once you write those 10 things down, remove seven. And I was like, dad, okay,

A (20:14)

yeah, that's so true. Because at the end of the day, we, as you know, we buy products, you know, for our clients and stuff. And I just feel like, why? There's something new coming out every week. I'm just getting poured.

B (20:27)

Yeah.

A (20:28)

At this point, it's like I'm telling my clients, okay, that serum you bought last week, that's not working anymore.

B (20:33)

Yeah. And you lose trust.

A (20:35)

Yeah. And I sold it to you last week. But something new is coming this week and it's just, it's, it is annoying. So I really do, like, I really do agree on that one. What separates a booked out artist from one that struggles?

B (20:49)

I think it's consistency, for one. I think, you know, a lot of people, I think like, fake it to make it, but no, people can tell when you are faking it. You know what I mean? Like, learn what you do. I mean, obviously if you're fresh out of school, like try different things. Right? Because you need to know what your, it's good, what's gonna hit. But once you find out that one thing, just specialize on that one thing, you know? And then I think another thing too is that people start to see people as dollar signs as opposed to like long term relationships. I think a lot of people, like, see their customers as like dollar signs. Like, okay, that girl's got a lot of money, I'm going to work her. Right. But really I, you know, with one of my many of my clients and I, I, I have the opportunity to work with a lot of high profile clients, but I focus more on like the relationship and the trust that I'm building with my clients as opposed to seeing them as dollar signs.

A (21:39)

And I feel in this industry, everyone's coming as dollar signs, you know what I mean? And a lot of these like trends that you see on TikTok, especially how you just said, fake it till you make it. When they say, I'm completely booked this month, but in reality they're not, right?

B (22:00)

Well, yeah, a lot of people say that. And they're like, I'm fully booked this month, but I only have eight spots open. It's like, girl, I saw 25 clients a week, a day when I first started. Okay, you want to talk about fully booked? Were you seeing 150 a week?

A (22:16)

Oh, my gosh, no. But I really do see that there's a trend going where it's kind of like you have to fake it to make it. Causes you to say no. To like, say you're fully booked, not making any money, but do you agree on that? Do you think a new upcoming esthetician that wants to be fully booked and to say on Instagram or post like, hey, I'm completely booked this month. My wait list is open and I'll be opening up the next month and a couple of days or something like that.

B (22:46)

I don't think that's a good strategy. But I'm also. I come from, like, I was on the grind. Like, I was giving free facials at Whole Foods when I first started. Oh, yes. Yeah. I was not above it. I was just starting my business and I went to the manager of the Whole Foods beauty department and I was like, can I set up my table here and just give people mini facials? And that was something that I did and I did every Saturday for like the first three months that I did it. And that's how I booked my first round of clients.

A (23:13)

In a grocery store.

B (23:14)

In a grocery store. Huh?

A (23:17)

Wow. That is so. I never heard of that. So they let you. So they let you.

B (23:21)

Yeah, they let me. And you know what was amazing? Like, fresh. A new, fresh esthetician too, is that like, I got to build relationships with this brand too. And it ended up actually being bigger because I got like long term clients, a couple of my clients that I still have as clients, like many years later. But I also got to. That was my first exposure to working with brands too. And I wasn't even thinking, like, oh, I'm going to. I'm going to work with this brand or I'm going to use this product line. But these brands were also like, cool. We want to give you products to give free people free facials. So that was like some of my first brand partnerships, like, you know, 15 years and 15 plus years ago.

A (23:55)

Oh, my gosh. That's crazy. Never knew that. So was that like the only kind of. You started off and did you do anything else? Like.

B (24:03)

Yeah, I mean, I did a lot of free services. I think we all do, right? Yeah, but free is never free. Right. Because you're creating content with people.

A (24:11)

Um, but back then there wasn't content.

B (24:14)

Ish. Like, it was just. Yeah, it was just like popping off a little bit. But I mean, for marketing, I always took like photos and stuff before and after photos and everything of my clients for my website and for everything too. But you know, even now when I first. When I launch a new service in my studio for, you know, for anybody, I'll always give the free service to all of my top clients, I'll pull a top client list, my top 20 clients, all let them experience it for free. And that's how I launch every new service, even to this day, being super established.

A (24:47)

Wow. Now, do you. I know that SEO is like a huge thing right now. Is that how you guys are. How you're able to keep your artists booked is something that. Because it's a huge thing right now. Right. How are you able to have them booked out to.

B (25:04)

I like to hire people that are entrepreneurs also. Like, I like people that are running their business inside of my business.

A (25:09)

Oh, I know a lot of people

B (25:10)

like that, and a lot of people are not like that. And, you know, I. I think there are some inconsistencies too. I think that my girls can definitely, you know, work a little bit harder to book their books to, you know, To. To book themselves. But it's just a lot of different things. We do a model fee too. So where they. If they're not booked, then they have people come in, and then they're creating content, and then we're using them as models too. So, yeah, there's a lot of different things that we do.

A (25:38)

Dang. Okay. I'm gonna be a model. Do you think social media is helping or hurting new estheticians?

B (25:48)

Helping, for sure. Yeah. Because I feel like a lot of people can learn different things. I feel like when you start to copy, that's not good. Right?

A (25:56)

That's. That's.

B (25:57)

Yeah. So one of the things that I always say is, like, don't just look at estheticians when you're creating content. Like, look at things that are outside of the industry. You know, like, whenever I'm looking at a brand that I really, really like, and it could be something that's, you know, maybe a car related. You could say, like, okay, I really like this, and I like that piece of content. How can I turn this into, like, an esthetician's version of it?

A (26:20)

Oh. So that. That brings me to my next question. What type of content actually converts followers into paying clients?

B (26:26)

I think content where clients can feel the sensations. You know, like, when clients can feel like, I do, like, a lot of massage videos because that's what kind of, like, I'm known for. But I think when I post those things, so many clients are like, oh, my God, it looks so relaxing because you have people that you're, you know, that you want to work on that are, like, sitting in their office rotting that are like, yeah, I just want someone to touch my face like this, you know, So I think if people can kind of feel what the post is about, then I think that's what really converts.

A (27:01)

We, we getting some real. See, this is, this is, this is why I needed to have you on this podcast because we spent a long time coming. If you had to start over with zero followers, okay, nothing, what would you do?

B (27:19)

Well, I can't see myself starting from zero, to be honest, because I've diversified my streams of income now that it doesn't just come from products or from brand or from services. They're coming from different things. But if I had to start all over, honestly, I would do the same thing that I did. And that was like every person that I touch, rebook them so that. And give them an all star service that they can recommend more people. I think so many people focus, like when they're just starting their business, they think like, okay, you're a new client. I'm going to offer a new client discount. You're going to get 50% off. But what is that client seeing when they first come in? Oh, this guy's going to give me a discount. I wonder if I can get a discount every time. Whereas if you say if, if I have you come in and I'm charging you full price but giving you an all star experience, you're going to be like, wow, this is amazing. This is elevated. I'm going to tell everybody about it brick by brick.

A (28:09)

No, really, though, what's a mistake you see beginners make over and over again?

B (28:16)

I think a mistake that I see beginners make over and over again is that they don't treat themselves like an actual brand. They treat themselves as an individual. You know, I see so many people that get on their Instagrams and they talk about, you know, how frustrating is that? This client is 15 minutes late and that's not the way that I run my business. It's so disrespectful. It's like, why don't you pick up the phone and tell your client that directly? Okay. Don't scare people off. Because that's when it's like, it's giving. I'm an individual, it's giving. I'm not a brand.

A (28:50)

So very compassionate about that.

B (28:52)

I am.

A (28:53)

No, you really don't like it. We're really going to get into the tea because, I mean, I'm not even going to be a hypocrite to do this. But not to every client. But every single time a client does this one thing wrong, right? They kind of make it seem like I've Been having this lately and you know, it's only just one client that has been late. Not no call, no shows or cancellations. Like you guys really need to stop canceling day of like, you know, going on a rant.

B (29:23)

Yeah, yeah, just block them. I have fired so many clients.

A (29:27)

Oh yeah?

B (29:28)

Yeah, just block them and just say like, unfortunately we're not a good match. Like, you waste my fucking time.

A (29:38)

No, for real though. No, because I'm like. So I, I was, I. In the beginning I was like that, you know, like I didn't post like every single client, but I kind of like a reminder of like what you shouldn't be doing. But truly to this day I feel like now that there's so many people in the industry that have been posting rants and it just makes me. Now as a client, I don't want to go to you because. Are you talking about me?

B (30:03)

Right. Exactly. And would YSL Beauty do that? Would Milk Makeup do that? Would Road Beauty do that?

A (30:11)

No, they wouldn't.

B (30:15)

Would Louis Vuitton do that?

A (30:16)

Absolutely not. What's one thing you tell esthetician who want to hit six figures?

B (30:24)

I always say don't focus on the money. If you're money driven, this is the wrong industry for you because money will come. But if you focus thing on things like building relationships with clients, with being consistent with perfecting your art, with, you know, maintaining a relationship with your clients, the money will come. I've never been money driven. I've never had, you know, aside from year one when we had the faulty packaging, you know, it's never been an issue, you know, to worry about money.

A (30:52)

Yeah. And I feel like again, a lot of people worry about the income. They see a person making six figures or over six figures, but. And they think that's going to happen to them, you know. But I feel like when it doesn't, they're like, why me? Why is it, why am I not getting booked? You know, why does this person have a G wagon and I am doing the same thing and I'm not. Right?

B (31:16)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's, it's really just you have to treat yourself as if you're, you're a business. You know, you have to take your business seriously is what I always say. Like if this is something fun and cute and now you can do your makeup on your friends and you can have people come over so you can give them a little facial, like cute, you can do that. But if the moment that you start to treat yourself as if you're a brand is when you will see yourself start to make money.

A (31:42)

If someone is brand new, what should they focus on? Skill, content or clientele?

B (31:47)

All the above, but one thing, skill first. So I think you have the fullest focus on your skill. One of the things that I always say is that your content, your, your skill should be bulletproof. You should be able to do any kind of brow, any kind of shape, any kind of hair type, any kind of skin type, any kind of age. So you need to focus on that first because once you can focus on your skill set is when you can really start to first of all create content about it and then the clientele will come.

A (32:17)

So you mentioned working with high profile client. What is that to you?

B (32:22)

Well, I would consider high profile client, like a celebrity or someone that has like high visibility, like someone that has a lot of eyes on them. But I also work with a lot of billionaires now too.

A (32:33)

So what is like the difference? Like, tell me, like, how is it working from a billionaire client to a celebrity?

B (32:39)

There's a huge difference. So celebrities, it's very like, well, they don't respect your time. I mean they never stay on time, you know, and that's not everybody, this is a generalization. But typically they can say like, can you come for a house call at 8pm and you could just be sitting there waiting until midnight. You know, there have been like a couple of clients where they have had me come, you know, ask me to be there eight. Yeah, I'm doing their brows at 2am What? You know. Yeah. So now I charge with the hour. Where as billionaires on the other hand, it's the complete opposite. So they tell you if you're going to be there at 7:00pm, you're starting at 7, 7:01. If you tell them that you're going to be done by 8pm, 801, they're taking a conference call or they're talking, you know, they're talking on, like on to the next thing. So I feel like that is very like a huge contrast.

A (33:25)

Yeah. And with working with celebrities sometimes because I've had so many guests on this podcast speak on working with celebrities and sometimes saying that they're not the best to work with and don't want to pay, you know, some dose. Let me, let me clarify it. Influencers and celebrity.

B (33:48)

Oh yeah, no, I don't, I don't work on a lot of influencers. Yeah, yeah. I mean, unless it's like an established thing where it's like. And now I have my influencer Sign contracts. So it's like, if you are, if I'm going to give you this free service, this is the deliverables that you're going to give to me. This is what you're going to post and this is, you know, you're going to do all that because yeah, if you need to have those kind of things and this is something that I recommend for everybody. If you're going to use any influencers, if you're going to work with any influencers, make sure that it is very clear what you are seeking from them. Because nothing is really free, right? You're providing a free service. You're using all of your back bar, you're using your skill and your talent and you need to be very, very clear what you want from influencers.

A (34:28)

Because they sometimes won't post you, right?

B (34:31)

They won't post or they'll, you know, you can give them like a whole thing and chart, you know, charge. You can carve out three hours of time because they're late and then they only give you a story tag. It's like, no, babe, like, that's not how we work now.

A (34:44)

Tell me about the celebrity clients. I want to know about Cardi. I, like, let me just tell her. Just tell me she's easy to work with. Tell me.

B (34:52)

She is.

A (34:53)

She really.

B (34:53)

She's very, she's very sweet. She's a hard worker. She's the kind of person that she could be doing nothing and you're just like entertained. She can just be like looking at her phone, like scrolling and she's just so funny. Like, she's, she's just so charismatic and so funny.

A (35:10)

What about Lotto?

B (35:11)

Lotto is beautiful. She's so hot. I was honestly, I got so nervous and I was like sweating because I was like, damn, you are a masterpiece.

A (35:20)

And she's pregnant. So it's like, oh, my God, I can imagine her baby. How about Lizzo?

B (35:28)

Lizzo is very sweet. Yeah.

A (35:30)

Really? Did she carry, what, does she play her little flute all the time? I can't just imagine that. How about. I know that you worked on Noah Cyrus too, right? You know, Miley Cyrus is like one of my biggest. Like, I'm like obsessed. What is one thing that's fun about working with celebrities?

B (35:55)

It's good for your brand, it's good for your marketing. People care about it. Which is funny because I've, I've done so many other cool things in my career that I would consider bigger. But for some reason people think like, oh, you work on celebrities. You must Be, like, the best.

A (36:11)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, when you work on some type of celebrity, they. It really enhances your brand for some. It just makes it, like, it. It blows up, you know? So I feel like, yes, it. It. Especially a lot of, you know, beauty industry people, when they work on, like, skin. I mean, influencers in general, it's kind of like, oh, you worked with her. Like, she must go for you for a reason. They kind of. But in my case, since I worked with influencers, I respect them, and I. But when they post me, for some reason, I don't really get as much clients from them that I do with word by mouth. My actual clients.

B (36:52)

Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I always say, everyone always asks me, like, how do I start to work on celebrities? And one of the things that I always say is, like, start to treat your regular clients like celebrities. And that's what I did. I treated every single one of my clients like a celebrity. And I. Low key manifested actually working on celebrities.

A (37:09)

How did it. What was your first celebrity?

B (37:12)

First celebrity. I mean, I had some, like, little ones. I think my first celebrity that I ever worked on was this DJ named Little Boots. This was, like, when I was, like, a new esthetician, but. Yeah.

A (37:27)

Never heard of that.

B (37:28)

Yeah.

A (37:29)

Okay, let's get into some fun questions. What is the craziest client experience you've ever had?

B (37:36)

I feel like I've had so many.

A (37:38)

Give me, like, your craziest.

B (37:40)

Well, and I. This was actually a celebrity client. And so normally, anytime that you work on a celebrity, it's normally, like, in preparation for, like, a big shoot or something. So it's normally, like, me, like, the spray tanner, Isabel. Yeah, it was me, Isabelle. Isabelle had just sprayed this client, and she was just standing there, like, naked. And then I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna do your brows now. So I worked on the client naked and sprayed. I was. She was standing up, and I was doing her brows.

A (38:10)

Wait, how were you. You were laminating her brows while she was, like, completely.

B (38:16)

Yeah, yeah. Completely naked. Another one. Another client that I worked on. I had worked on this new client, and I love this client, but she. The first time that I ever worked on her, she was skinny dipping. I don't know why all my stuff is, like, naked stuff, but she was. She was skinny dipping in her pool. And then I was like, hi, I'm Renee, and, you know, I'm walking in with all my stuff. And then she's like, okay, I'm ready And then she just goes to the edge of the pool and just lays her head back.

A (38:40)

You're.

B (38:41)

And then I was like, okay, yeah, I can do my. I can do your brows while you're in the pool naked.

A (38:46)

And also, you can't wet your brows.

B (38:49)

Well, that. That one. We only did a classic brow shaping.

A (38:51)

Oh, okay. I'm like, how are you in the pool? About to get a lamination.

B (38:55)

Yeah.

A (38:55)

When you can't wet your brows. How about. Has anyone ever, you know, not liked a service that you provided?

B (39:05)

Of course.

A (39:06)

And how do you. How do you.

B (39:09)

Well, I. I like to read clients. You know, one of the things that I always say is, like, it doesn't matter how good you are. If a client doesn't like your work, then they don't like your. Your work. Right. Because this is art. So art is subjective. So, you know, you can look at like, one of a big. Like the big painters, and there were so many people that don't like them. So why am I gonna have an ego about my own work, you know? So I think remembering that it's art for one, and art is subjective always helps me. But another thing is that, like, I want a client to be happy. Right. So I always stand by my work. And, like, what don't you like about it? Let's fix it. I want to make sure that you leave happy so they never fully leave. Being unhappy with the service. Sometimes it'll take me double the amount of time and not so much anymore. But when I just started. Sometimes it'll take me longer to get to what to make them happy, but they always leave happy.

A (39:59)

Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's you wanting them to leave at least somewhat.

B (40:04)

Yeah. Reaching a positive resolution. Yeah.

A (40:07)

Love that. What's something people assume about you that's completely wrong?

B (40:14)

Actually, I didn't know that people assume this about me until someone told me about this, but someone told me that they think I'm very serious.

A (40:21)

What?

B (40:22)

Yeah. I don't know. People thought that I'm. I'm like, very serious. I mean, I think you know me on a personal level because you know my husband for many years and stuff too, but I am not at all, like, I love dumb shit. Like, all my feed is just all the dumbest shit that I just love. Oh, yeah. And I just. I love, like, being silly. Like, it's like there's two. There's kind of two things. Like, one that's like me, that's a business. You know, the business person that is the educator that Is very serious. But then on my personal life, I'm literally like a degenerate. So.

A (40:50)

No, for real. So, you know, then, you know, if you weren't in the beauty industry, what would you be doing?

B (40:56)

I'd be a singer. Yeah, I'm originally a singer, a trained singer. And yeah, if I wasn't in the industry, I'd probably be a singer.

A (41:05)

I seen you working on that. Are you still, like, you had.

B (41:09)

Yeah, so I, I still study opera. And actually after this, I have a voice lesson too. So. Yeah, it's just like my thing that, like, you know, it's just like my personal thing. It's like my church, like my hobby.

A (41:20)

Yeah.

B (41:21)

That I like to kind of just keep up. And I low key always say, like, one day I'm gonna sell it all, move to Italy and be an opera singer.

A (41:28)

I can honestly see you doing that.

B (41:30)

Me too.

A (41:32)

Then the next couple years, watch like, it's gonna for sale. Biggest pet peeve as a brow artist. Oh, I have one.

B (41:40)

For clients or for other artists?

A (41:43)

Let's do both.

B (41:44)

Okay. For clients, I will explicitly tell clients, don't touch your brows because your brows are in bad shape. Right. That's why you came to see me. Right. But then clients will just be like, I just had to tweet, like the little one, you know, like, people are just get really neurotic about their brows. I think most brow clients are very neurotic and they like things like perfect. You know, that's like the typical client who like, pays a premium is that they're very into their brows. Right. So I get it. But girl, when you try to give yourself a new shape or you're giving yourself an upside down. You like, what are we doing? Yeah, Like, I'm like, okay, so we're, we're going with something else now. Some clients from brow artists, I think it is one of the things that bothers me the most is that people don't really look at people's features. They'll just kind of like, just do the same brow on every. They'll do the same brow on, like every person. No matter the face shape, no matter things. Like when me, I. When I work on brows, like, you can't ever tell that it's my brows because all the brows are all different. And I look at people's cheekbones, I look at their face, face structure, I look at their noses, I look at the way that they dress, I look at their vibe. Like, I just, I look take into account all those things, and then I kind of create A brow from there. Whereas, like, I think a lot of people be like, well, this is my look. That's my signature stamp.

A (43:07)

Oh, my gosh. I've never heard someone describe it like that. Yeah, because you really. For your brow specifically, I can never really tell what is your brow. But as for other bra artists, I just know that that's their bra, you know, because they do do those same exact brow on everybody.

B (43:27)

Well. And I think for me, like, my style is quite luxury when it comes to brows. Like, I don't want my clients to be like, they got this stamp on their face. I want their friends to be like, you look really good. Like, you look, like, young. Like, what is it? You know?

A (43:41)

Do you think that the Instagram brow. First of all, look at my brows. Do I need to work on my brows?

B (43:47)

Your brows are beautiful. They're stunning.

A (43:48)

Okay. But I don't want the Instagram brows.

B (43:50)

No, your brows are gorgeous. I love myself.

A (43:53)

Do you think the Instagram brows, like, is something that I. Okay, let me rephrase this. But a lot of brow lamination that I see a lot of brow artists doing is so Instagram brow. I like more. I miss the fluff.

B (44:09)

Mm.

A (44:10)

You know, you don't see these celebrities or going. And just to have that Instagram, that's, like, not a Runway thing. It's just, like, very. I like the messy look.

B (44:19)

Yeah, well, you know, everyone's different, right? Like, everyone has different. They have different. Different styles. But, you know, I think the point that I'm trying to drive home, too, is like, you should know how to do all those different techniques. You should know how to do all those different styles. So I think as a brow artist, you should really know how to do every single one of those techniques. If you want to do the stamp, give your client the stamp. If you want to have that, like, fluffy, beautiful brow, know how to do that, too, but have many different styles in your toolkit.

A (44:47)

Yeah. I want to talk about really quick, before we're getting close into ending this podcast, I want to talk about your system, your brow lamination system. Would you ever sell it in store to everybody?

B (45:04)

To, like, a consumer?

A (45:05)

Yeah. Like, not just estheticians, to every consumer. Like, if Ulta were to offer you

B (45:11)

a. I have been offered, actually, to create a consumer line, and I really go back and forth.

A (45:17)

I want to know. I just want to know what you. Your thoughts about it. Because.

B (45:20)

Because here's the thing. Like, we have to. I'm in a difficult position because I'm an educator, and I respect A professional. And there's a level of integrity that is required when you're working with professionals. On the other hand, there's other companies that are making at home brow laminations that are not giving the kind of education that someone like me could give. And they're frying off their brows. They're like messing themselves up. And you know, because we work with so many different states, you know, someone like in the midwest or something that doesn't have access to like these amazing places. I mean, in L. A and in New York there's like all these amazing options, right? But like somewhere. I trained someone in Idaho recently and it's like I'm the only person, I'm the only person that's here. And I'm like, so what does everybody else do? And they're like, they work on themselves. So that's the thing too is that like these things are happening at home already. You know, people are doing their own things. Press on nails. Look at press on nails. In the past year, like everyone is doing that. Right. Did it affect the nail industry? No, it didn't. But did it affect giving more availability to everybody by having an at home kit? So I really am conflicted and I understand the role that I play in the professional space, but I also see the consumer space too, that they need something amazing. So I really go back and forth.

A (46:40)

I think that's such, such a tricky question because as a beauty professional for me, I want it not to be available to a consumer because I don't want to lose the client.

B (46:49)

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

A (46:50)

You know what I mean? Like I, I'm gonna beat this out. They came out with, you know, they're in ulta right now, you know, and they're, you know, they can get that exact scrub with their ulta points for free instead of it buying it for me that I retail it.

B (47:08)

Yeah.

A (47:08)

You know what I mean?

B (47:09)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's another thing too is that they do have to have exclusive things that are prom there that are pros because obviously we use a lot of actives, you know, like in skincare, there's a lot of actives that someone could really fry up their face. Same thing with lamination. People could really mess their hair up and they can permanently damage their hair. So as of now, I stay like on the pro space, but I see on the other side that there is a need to. So I don't know that I'm the one to fill that consumer side, but I definitely think that there is a need for better consumer Products. Because people are going to do it anyway.

A (47:42)

Yeah. And honestly, TikTok Shop is such a huge thing right now. And again, I feel like these brands, you know, they see it and they see those dollar signs, so they're gonna obviously say, hey, not only should we have it, but for profess, but we should also sell it for consumers.

B (48:00)

Right.

A (48:00)

And I feel like it's like a huge controversial thing that's happening right now on Tick Tock that why is this brand able to sell to them? And it's kind of like, you know.

B (48:11)

Yeah.

A (48:11)

Also too, that this brand is selling shaving gel when they're known for just wax.

B (48:17)

Right. Yeah. That's a money grab. Yeah.

A (48:20)

You know.

B (48:21)

Yeah.

A (48:21)

So it's kind of like, well, us then, huh?

B (48:24)

Well, my drive.

A (48:28)

Okay, let's move on. So what's something that you're working on? Because I seen a little collab that you're doing. Let's talk about it. What, what, what is this tint all about?

B (48:38)

Yeah. So I just finished working with Borbaletta Pro. If you guys don't know Borbaletta Pro, they are a professional lash brand that does lash extensions and lash lifts. And they invited me to collaborate with them to help build out a full brow collection. So we together created like 45 SKUs that are going to go into CosmoProv. They're starting off with 250 doors. Eventually they're going to be in all CosmoProv stores. And that's everything for like brow tools, brow wax, brow tints, which everybody is super excited about.

A (49:07)

That's literally what I'm excited about.

B (49:08)

It's so nice, but it's just like a really nice, like long wearing hybrid tint. That's amazing. And the colors are just so good and they're just customizable and the long that the wear is just like so long. So that's my current collaboration, if you don't know already. I collaborated with Mature Verity Pro to create the industry's first brow wax.

A (49:29)

Amazing, by the way.

B (49:31)

Yeah. And that's sold globally already. And then I think with Browdown, we have some things that are coming too that are going to be really good. A lot of education stuff that's coming now that we have hq, but yeah, still kind of like on, you know, Pro Tools and everything too. So lots of stuff coming.

A (49:48)

The works. Do you have brow ambassadors for, you know, your upcoming tents? Are you going to do anything like that? Because I'm. Do you have broad ambassadors right now?

B (49:57)

Yeah, so we have ambassadors and then we have certified pro trainers, so. Certified pro trainers. Most of them I've trained myself and we have 30 across the US so if you're looking for any brow education or anything, you can always go to our website, search a certified pro trainer near you and you can always find out how to use Brown Studio Pro.

A (50:17)

When do these tints come out?

B (50:18)

They're already out.

A (50:19)

Oh, they're already out?

B (50:20)

Yeah, they're already out. They're on barbaletta.barbelletapro.com soon to be in Cosmoprov doors. So Cosmoprov is literally everywhere. Everywhere, yeah. So you'll be able to find them there and then they'll soon be on Brighton studiopro.com When do they do they.

A (50:35)

When did they launch at CosmoProf?

B (50:37)

They. I think that they are already launching in 250 locations. I think some kind of, like the big ones right now. And then they're going to go to, like, eventually all of them. There's over like a thousand locations. So I think the team is working on, like, the rollout of them being, like, available everywhere.

A (50:53)

I'm so excited. Not only when you came out with that wax too. I have never. This is the first time, right, that they made an exclusive wax just for brows. Right. So how did that come into play? Did they reach out to you or.

B (51:08)

It was just a relationship? Honestly, I, like, randomly just tried the products, the wax, and I was like, I really like this. This is really good. And then just learning about the brands and about the brand and how they, like, source all their natural, raw ingredients and how it's mostly, like, organic. And I'm like, this is a really, really high quality. So I kind of was. I, like, immediately switched from other wax brands and started using their stuff. And then I met with the team, you know, and we got really close. I got really close with the team in Italy and here in the US and then I was like, I have this really crazy idea that I need to tell you. And I told them. I was like, we need a wax that's just for eyebrows and it needs to be specifically for eyebrows because the eyebrows so sensitive, you know. So that's where we launched the sculpting brow wax. And yeah, rest is history. If you guys ever have any ideas and you want to work with brands, shoot your shot. Because you never know when people are going to be like, you know what? Yeah, let's do it.

A (52:04)

Yeah. Because I have never. I mean, there is a lot of soft wax that people use for brows, but if you do notice if you do brows, it does leave. It's so, you know, red and there's hives right away and it's just, it's so sensitive, the area. And once I started using that soft wax, it was a game changer.

B (52:24)

Yeah, it's so good. We always say it's like the precision of soft wax with the gentleness of

A (52:27)

hard wax and I'm obsessed.

B (52:29)

And it has hyaluronic acid too, so it really hydrates the skin and there's no redness.

A (52:34)

Okay, well, watch me get the hybrid in store too. Okay, well, thank you so much for being on my podcast.

B (52:40)

Thank you.

A (52:40)

And it's been a long time coming and next time we're going to have, if you don't know, shout out to Matthew. His husband is amazing, so shout out to him. Love you. But thank you so much for coming on my podcast and we'd like to see you back again.

B (52:53)

Thank you so much. Bye.