← Beauty with a Twist
Beauty with a Twist
How I Went From Hair Stylist to Content Creator, Being a Brand & Standing Behind What You Endorse
01:07:26
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- [00:00]
A
In three, two, and one.
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B
Welcome, Zach.
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A
Hi.
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B
Thank you so much for being on my podcast, you guys. I'm, like, fangirling, literally. Okay. Because if you know, you know, go ahead and introduce yourself.
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A
Hey, everyone, I'm Zach Mesquite. I'm a hair stylist from Orange County, California. My IG handle is the Zach Mesquite.
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B
Oh, okay. Before we start, you guys, let me just say I didn't know that we live so close, so I know, like, so close. Literally so close. So I'm like, you guys crazy, but go ahead and tell us a little bit backstory, how you started your business and all of that.
- [00:38]
A
All right. Well, yeah, like I said, I've been. I'm a hairstylist. I've been doing hair, licensed for about 13 years now, and I kind of have morphed my career more into, like, the content creation aspect of doing hair. So I still am a cosmetologist, and that's like, you know, what I do. But my bread and butter is creating content at this point. And I'm known for extreme color transformation, specifically blonding.
- [01:04]
B
I know the blonding king. We're gonna get into it.
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A
And then I do a lot of hair extensions as well.
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B
Okay, so did you. When you finished school, did you go straight solo or kind of like, give me a little quick recap?
- [01:16]
A
Yeah. So when I first graduated beauty school, it was actually, like, the year that Instagram was starting to become a thing. So right out of beauty school, I made an Instagram account because I was like, I just thought it would be cool to, like, create content around doing hair. So I think that kind of motivated me to get independent as quickly as possible, because I knew that if I was going to do that, I needed to, like, have my own space and everything. But, you know, back then, the only way to really make, like, enough money to have a space like that would be if you owned a salon, which I was going to take years and years of work. So, basically, yeah, what I did is I went to a local salon. It was like, the nicest salon in the area. And I was like, I'm just out of beauty school. You know, I need an assistant position, basically. So I worked as an assistant to stylist there for about six months to kind of, like, learn the business side of things, and then kind of simultaneously started posting, you know, my work on Instagram. She would let me come in, like, on her days off and, like, take clients and stuff.
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B
Were they her clients?
- [02:19]
A
No, Like, I would just find my own.
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B
Okay.
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A
Some people, like, I had built up some clients while I was in beauty school a little bit, so they kind of, you know, I kept their information and stuff. Yeah. I just started trying to build clients up until I got to the point where I could rent a chair. So I did, like, booth rental for probably the first, I'd say, five years of my career until I got busy enough to where it made sense for me to, like, move into, like, a private studio suite thing. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm in right now.
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B
Okay, so you've been there then for a minute?
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A
Yeah, I've been in my current studio for three years, but I've been, like, working in. In private studio spaces for, yeah, like, seven, eight years now.
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B
So now that you've been in the studio spaces, do you ever think about owning?
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A
No. No.
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B
Yeah.
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A
No.
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B
People ask me.
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A
No, people ask me that all the time. Like, would you ever want to open a salon?
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B
Yeah.
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A
And the answer is always, like, hell, no. I would never want to own a salon for, like, multiple reasons. I think the main one is probably I'm just not good at, like, delegating work to people, you know, like, you have to. I don't know, like, that's why I don't work with an assistant either, because I can't, like, tell people what to do. It's like, you have to either, like, know it or you don't. And then I'm not, like I said, good at delegating. So when I have had tried to hire assistants in the past, I found that it actually just kind of stressed me out more. So I just really like, just being all on my own.
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B
Is it because you were always. You kind of feel like you always have to tell them, like, they could do this and you just kind of don't want to, like, micromanage?
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A
Yeah, exactly. I don't want to micromanage. And I just feel like I would rather not take on more work than I can handle on my own.
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B
Yeah. And I feel like, you know, owning. We always talk about it on the podcast, but owning a storefront, like, it's expensive, and I probably. You're losing more money than you're actually gaining in some aspects because, you know, there's so much overhead when it comes to certain shit, you know what I mean?
- [04:18]
A
For real. And then you got to deal with, like, you know, I'm. I'm so, like, not like, a people pleaser. And I feel like if you're going to own, like, a business like that, it's a customer service base like, it has to be very. The customer is always right type of vibes, and I'm not that way at all. So.
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B
So let me. Let me. Let me get into it. So, like, do you run into, like, some issues with some, like, lines and that aspect?
- [04:44]
A
Not at this point in my career, because I feel like I've established enough to where, like, people know what to expect before they even are gonna, you know, reach out to me. But, yeah, definitely the first couple years in the industry, like, building up a clientele and, like, just learning how to deal with all types of people, you know, Because I had never worked in any environment like that before.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Where you're, you know, it's like a service industry type thing. So, yeah, there definitely was, like, a learning curve, but I. I learned along the way that how important it is to, like, set boundaries. And even though you want to make your clients happy, I feel like the customer is always right. Attitude. A lot of clients kind of take advantage of that, you know, A lot of clients will literally, like, walk all over you if you let them think that they can just get whatever they want.
- [05:37]
B
Yeah, Especially there's, like, there. Especially with hair. I think it's a lot different, too. Like, they come in and they ask you, right. I want to go from jet black to fully blonde. And it's like, okay, hold the up. Really? Let's, like, we gotta. We gotta come back a notch, you know, so I can, like. I could totally understand that. But going back into, like, owning a storefront, I always. Always tell anyone that always asks me if I can go back. I mean, I do not regret my storefront at all, because, you know, it's beautiful. It's a really. It's in the heart of Rancho, if, you know, you know. Um. But I just miss being solo. There's nothing about being just by yourself and just, like, clocking in and clocking out, you know? Cause now I have all my booth renters. I have around, like, six. So I. Having to deal with all of them is just. I love my girls, but it's a lot, you know?
- [06:29]
A
Yeah. Managing people, like, it's just. I just don't have the energy for that. I mean, more power to you if you can do it, but it's. I don't have it in me.
- [06:37]
B
Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna get into some juicy questions, you guys. Cause we. I was going through them. I was like, wow, Marlo, this is pretty crazy. You branded yourself. We going back into the blonding king, right? At what point did you decide you weren't Just a hair stylist. You were a brand.
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A
Oh, I think it was when I realized that, like, brands were interested in me, you know, because, like, I was just doing my thing, posting my work, and, you know, getting clients.
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B
Okay.
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A
And then I started getting a lot of, like, recognition, like, a lot of attention from, like, you know, huge brands in the industry. And I was like, okay, like, obviously something about me is catching their eye. Like, I'm standing out. And then I think it was actually my. When I hired my agent that she helped me to see myself as more of, like, a brand than just, you know, Zach.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And just the work that I do, and she really has helped me to, like, understand how important that is to brand yourself.
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B
So how, like, long. When you got your agent, like, how long have you been in the industry for when you finally go, like, okay, I need. I need someone, And I'm trying to think.
- [07:44]
A
I feel like I was probably in the industry, like, license for about, like, seven years at that point.
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B
Okay.
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A
Yeah. So I just started getting to the point where I was getting, like, really well known, like, on social media. And. Yeah, so I'd say about. Yeah, about seven years, like, probably two years into, like, my really, like, doing a lot of content creation. But, yeah, about seven years, like, doing here.
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B
When did you, like, what platform did you kind of, like, start blowing off in?
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A
Oh, like. Yeah, my original platform that I started was Instagram.
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B
Okay.
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A
And then I built that up, and then I got it hacked, which was terrible. Yes. Literally, it got.
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B
You never got it back?
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A
I never got it back. Stop it. Yeah, it was so scary, too, because I had, you know, contracts. Yeah, contracts that had to fulfill. You know, I mean, luckily I had my, you know, my clients. But at that point, I was already, like, you know, working full time as, like, an influencer too, you know, working with brands. And so I'm, you know, obligated to be posting a certain amount of times, you know, per month and everything. So I was, like, panicking, and then it was my agent. She was like, well, you know, you got to fulfill these obligations one way or another. So she's like, why don't you start a. TikTok was like, around the time TikTok was coming around, so I was like. I was very, like, resistant to it. Like, I did not want to do TikTok at first because it just seemed so overwhelming, you know, like, it's a different app, but it was a blessing in disguise because then now. Now TikTok is my main platform. I have way more followers on there than I did on my original Instagram account. And then that helped me to build up a new, you know, Instagram account because people were. Find me on TikTok.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So I never got my original account back.
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B
Wait, how. Wait, how many followers do you have that it got hacked?
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A
I was around 300,000. Yeah.
- [09:33]
B
Oh my. Did you click on something? Because that's how I got hacked.
- [09:36]
A
It was. And what was it? I got like an email. Me. Yeah.
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B
That a post was gonna delete or something and I clicked that link.
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A
It was. Yeah, it was some kind of an email and it was something like, oh, you're account password has changed or something. And then you click it and then it took me the thing and then it texts me a number thinking I was getting back into my own account. But it actually gave the hackers access to my account.
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B
Yeah, YouTube was just haters.
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A
It was probably the hair. It was probably the rats.
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B
Okay, so then did you. What kind of content were you posting that kind of like, have you blown
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A
up like, it was the. The blonde transformations for sure.
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B
Really?
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A
The blondes? Yeah. So that's when I kind of. In beauty school even, I kind of already figured out like the blonding was going to be my thing because I was just like good at it and I was drawn to it. So. Yeah, I noticed whenever I would post the like extreme like bleach out transformations on Instagram, it got the most attention. So I just kind of kept going with that.
- [10:39]
B
Yeah. Did you start your extension brand right away when you.
- [10:44]
A
No, the extension brand came about. Only I started that like four years ago, maybe five years ago. I started Luster Links and I, I created it honestly, just because I was doing a lot of extensions. I worked with a couple different brands. Yeah, I was working with a couple different extension brands and their quality was just not there. It was just not there because, see, for. For super platinum blonde hair, which is like obviously what I do and what I'm known for, like the hair has to obviously be process really to an extreme degree to get it light enough to match my client's hair and all the like big brands out there, the hair either was not light enough or if it was, it only would last like a few months. And it was expensive. And so I started just sourcing for myself hair, like directly from like vendors, like out of the country. And so I was just using it. And then naturally when people would see in my videos like that I'm using this beautiful hair and stuff, they'd be like, where do you get your hair and then I was like, well, why don't I just, you know, come up with the A name and packaging and everything? And so, yeah, I launched Luster Links.
- [11:56]
B
Marlowe. We're gonna beat this out. Okay. But they.
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A
It's not good.
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B
I actually got extensions from them and. Crazy. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. So, you know.
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B
No, I know there's just certain for me, when I wanted before I had like, really long hair and shout out to the prenatals, you know, but before, I was like, okay, extensions, extensions and all that. But you could just notice the difference and feel the difference between the hair, you know. So, yeah, it's crazy. But do you feel like now that you have your own brand of extension, do you sell it to like.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Oh, okay.
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A
Yeah. I ship hair all over the world. So, like, people. I ship hair to the Middle east, last week, Australia, like, yeah, like all over the place. Yeah. So. And I don't sell it only to hairstylists, so even, like, the consumer can buy it. Which was. That was a big thing too, was like, when I decided I was going to make my own extension brand, I was like, I just want it to be for whoever wants, like, good hair. But like I said, I'm not trying to compete with, like, the huge, you know, names. Everyone knows where they have, like, a huge range of colors. Like, I only have one color because the way I do extensions and I've done them enough, people are like, why do you only have one color? Yeah, it's because, like, I like hair to be the extension, to be a blank canvas. So, like, even if I had a client who is a brunette, I would start with platinum blonde hair and then color match that hair. Because if it's. It's, you know, blank, like, almost white hair, you can do anything to it and it'll match.
- [13:35]
B
Oh, I have never. Wow. Okay, so what if someone wanted, like a consumer Me. Right. Wanted to purchase, I had to do. I take it.
- [13:45]
A
Like, you would take it to your colorist. Yeah. So you would buy the hair or stylist would order the hair or whatever and. Yeah, they. They color match it for you.
- [13:55]
B
Okay. Shoes. I mean, did you always know you wanted to build a personal brand or did it just not, like, naturally happen? Obviously you said you're aging. Right. But did you feel. You guessed you did hair? But when did the content creation come? Like.
- [14:12]
A
Yeah, no, it never. I'm such, like a go with the flow person. I don't really, like, honestly think too far ahead about anything.
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B
Yeah. You know what? A lot of people in the beauty industry are turning to content creators. That's what I'm saying.
- [14:25]
A
Yeah, they are nowadays. Because now see, you know, what can be done with it. Like, I just did that whole creator event yesterday I was telling you about. So there's so many people in the beauty industry now that they, they see, you know, what some are doing, like me, and they're like, they want to do it too, you know.
- [14:39]
B
Yeah.
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A
So. But, you know, like I mentioned earlier, the year I graduated beauty school was literally like, I think the year Instagram came out, if I remember right. But it was very new. So it was, it was like back then, not how it is now. Now it's so oversaturated. But I didn't go into it thinking it would ever become the career that I have now because it just didn't exist that, you know, there was no such thing as an influencer. There was no, like, where you could ever do the things that I've been fortunate enough to do. Unless you were like, as, you know, some famous stylist who owns salons everywhere and celebrities.
- [15:15]
B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
So it came about just kind of accident. Like, originally it was just to get clients. I was like, you know, if I post my before and afters, you know, maybe this will help me get some. Some more clients in my chair. And then the brand started noticing and it just kind of over the years progressively kept evolving.
- [15:32]
B
Yeah. How, what did. When did you realize social media was your biggest leverage tool?
- [15:36]
A
Was that I would say the first time I had a client come in, because I would always, when somebody would book with me, if it wasn't someone that, you know, came up to me or I came up to them or whatever, like a random person was suddenly on my books. I would always be like, oh, how did you hear about me?
- [15:51]
B
Okay.
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A
You know, was it a whole. Did someone refer you or whatever? And this girl was like, oh, I saw you on Instagram. And I was like, really? That's how you. I was like, wow, people are seeing it, you know, So I think that was when I was like, wow, this is a really powerful tool that can actually, you know, build my business.
- [16:07]
B
Yeah. So when you finished going back, there was barely Instagram. So how were you kind of promoting yourself other than that?
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A
I would just hang out in the salon and wait for walk ins, basically. Yeah.
- [16:19]
B
Really?
- [16:19]
A
Yeah. So once I left, once I was done being an assistant, I was like, okay, I can't do this anymore. Like, I was making no money. You know, assistance is not even enough to survive on. I went to a salon nearby that was willing to hire me, like on commission. So basically I told him I was like, I don't have any clients. You know, I'm new, but like, I'm down to build.
- [16:39]
B
Yeah.
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A
So I just would have to go and just hang out and see. And they would run ads, they would do like Groupons and stuff. So there was always new people coming in and, you know, some of them would stick with me.
- [16:51]
B
So how is the hair industry? Because, you know, again, I'm in the esthetician industry. We're all in the beauty industry. How is it now so different compared to when you started?
- [17:03]
A
Oh, it's totally different because of social media, you know, so, I mean, it's different in so many ways. We could probably talk about it for an hour, you know, just on how different it is from when I started. But I think there's a lot of false advertising out there because people be editing their photos. You know, you can, you can tell when. I mean. Yeah, people are posting images that are not how the hair is actually looking in real life. There's a lot of that. There's a lot of people who, I don't know, like, do things, I think, deliberately to just cause drama because they know it gets views. Um, but there's a lot of positives to it as well, though. I think the biggest difference in the hair industry because of social media is that you can, as an independent stylist, become more successful than the stylist down the street who owns like a 20 chair salon. You know, you could make more money. So it's, it's cool that there's so many different ways, like, I've done so many things in my career that I was never, would never be even available to a hairdresser, you know, 15 years ago before I started. So there's a lot of pros to it, but also a lot of cons, I think.
- [18:18]
B
Yeah. And then also, like, there's some dark stuff in the hair. I just feel like every. Yeah, every beauty. Anything in the beauty industry, there's like mean girls, you know, there's. There's this, this type, this type of crowd and this type of crowd. But let me just tell you, when I go to the shows, right, Because I go to, like the conventions and stuff, the cosmetology side is always just so, like, up and I'm like, I want to be on that side. Okay. Because we go to the esthetician side and we're like, very mellow and. And I'm trying to get a ratchet
- [18:48]
A
on that yeah, right. I noticed that whenever I walk through the, like the esthetician stuff, like, oh, it's kind of boring over here. Not a lot going on. It's kind of quiet.
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B
No, it's boring. I know. I gotta. We're gonna do something about it. What's something glamorous about this industry that people don't see, see the dark side of?
- [19:05]
A
Oh, probably, probably like working with brands because. Not always, of course, but I mean I've had experiences in the past where like, they'll take advantage like with a lot of like the, the influencers of, you know, in, in the industry. Like, especially if they know you're new, sometimes they'll definitely take advantage of you.
- [19:29]
B
Like what do they not. They tell you that they're not going to pay or they'll kind of be like. Because I'm going to tell you a little example. They'll be like, you share a 30 second video and we'll send you a product or something when you know it's much more than that.
- [19:42]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Just try to lowball you. I mean even something as simple. Simple as literally like lowballing you or. Yeah. Not paying you or you know, just not holding that, not treating you well, you know.
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B
Have you ever had to like fire a brand or not fire, but like stop working. Stop working.
- [20:01]
A
Yeah. For. Yeah. I've worked with multiple different ones early on in my career. You know, for various reasons I just didn't like working with them anymore. But I've been very lucky to have gotten a contract with Wella and I've been with them for almost nine years now. So. Yeah. And so that's why I've stuck with them so long is because I, I worked with a lot of, you know, big brands before.
- [20:23]
B
Yeah.
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A
I came to sign with them and I did see, you know, the dark side of how it can be. So I've been very happy with them, which is why I've stuck with them so long.
- [20:33]
B
You know, Marlowe, let's beep this name out too. Okay. I don't know how the hell I'm on their PR list. I'm not even a hairstylist. But you know, thank you to them. But like they send me so much stuff too.
- [20:46]
A
Yeah.
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B
Have you ever been or not just like worked with them in general?
- [20:51]
A
I've never worked with. I know people who do though. I have some influencer friends who do
- [20:57]
B
I need to look up the brand that you work for?
- [20:58]
A
Yeah. Well, as amazing. I. Wella actually is the number one hair color brand in the whole World.
- [21:04]
B
Okay, well, we're gonna speak to them. Okay. How do you project your energy when you're the face of multiple brands?
- [21:11]
A
How do I project my energy? I think I just always am myself. Like, I. I just am very big on just not being fake. Like, I. I don't care who's in the room, who I'm around. I am the same at all times.
- [21:25]
B
Oh, let me get the energy. Hold on, hold on, Let me see. I'm getting a little bit of Leo energy from that.
- [21:31]
A
I'm a Pisces, actually.
- [21:32]
B
Are you serious?
- [21:33]
A
My wife's a Leo.
- [21:34]
B
Really?
- [21:35]
A
Huh.
- [21:35]
B
Yeah, I got like really big Leo energy.
- [21:38]
A
Really?
- [21:38]
B
Yeah, because they're okay.
- [21:40]
A
I've been with her so long, like, some of her Leo is like, absorbed into me.
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B
What do you get? Do you know much about.
- [21:47]
A
I don't know anything about it.
- [21:48]
B
I'm cancer.
- [21:49]
A
Okay.
- [21:49]
B
We're water science.
- [21:50]
A
Water signs. So then does that mean we would get along or.
- [21:53]
B
Just the best. Okay, so your birthday is coming up.
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A
Yeah, on the 19th. March 19th. Okay.
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B
Pisces.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So, but you going back into that, you have that brand that you're working with. Are you a face on other brands?
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A
Like, no. Well, is my only. I'm exclusive with them.
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B
Oh, yeah. Because you can't be. Yeah, totally. We know. You know?
- [22:14]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
How? No, let's name. We're gonna save that question. Do you ever feel pressure to look a certain way because you are the brand?
- [22:23]
A
I definitely feel pressure to look a certain way. Yeah, for sure. I think, I mean, not just because of social media, just my personality just naturally. I mean, I can remember being in probably like first grade and like, looking in the mirror, making sure my hair was perfect, my clothes were perfect. Like, I've always been very conscious of, like, my appearance. And I definitely, like, once I started putting myself out there on social media and, you know, seeing what I look like on camera, you definitely start noticing, you know, all your flaws and.
- [22:55]
B
Oh, yeah, I know.
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A
And then when you're doing, you know, like a meet and greet and you're having to take pictures with hundreds of people and, like, you want to make sure those pictures are going to look good, you know, they're going to repost them. And so, yeah, definitely feel a lot of pressure. Yeah.
- [23:08]
B
And. And also too, like, because you come in, you. You have this, like, aura. But such. For me, it's a good aura.
- [23:15]
A
Oh, thank you.
- [23:15]
B
Like, such a. I don't know when I, when I first walked in, it's just confidence, you know, And I love that. But I know the rats don't.
- [23:21]
A
The other.
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B
You know, the rats just look like
- [23:25]
A
the rats hate it.
- [23:25]
B
Why do you have so many haters? Let's just get into the team. You have. I see you post about it, like, I do.
- [23:31]
A
Yeah.
- [23:31]
B
I think you just posted one last night. It was selfie. So funny.
- [23:34]
A
Yeah. You know, I think what it is is, like, I. I think that I'm super big on energy, personally. And I definitely feel that energy either attracts or repels, you know, Like, I feel like if you're on a certain frequency, there are certain people who will be drawn to you and there will be certain people that are repelled by that frequency. So I really think that because I am so real and just authentically myself, like, I think that that frequency that I'm on is very repelling to the rats because they're on a negative frequency. You know, like, because if you think about it, and I'm super into, like. Like, if I could just, like, go to college and, you know, just learn anything, I would love to study human psychology.
- [24:21]
B
Really?
- [24:21]
A
Yeah. I just love to, like, think, okay, why does somebody. When I see somebody post some hater shit on my page? I think to myself, like, what must be going on with them that they think it's, like, normal to do that? You know, Because I don't know anybody in my life, at least I hope none of my friends or any or anybody that I would actually associate with thinks it's normal to go online and, like, troll somebody. But that's crazy.
- [24:44]
B
What's like trolling? What.
- [24:46]
A
Like, I don't like anything and everything. I mean, it could be anything from, like, my appearance to my client's appearance to the work that I did, or the way I. Like. The other day I posted a video because I'm going to launch a new product with my hair extension brand. That's these lace toppers. Or they're also called closures. I don't know if you know anything about, like, about those, but basically it's like a. It's like a little hairpiece that can be attached to the top of your head. Like, so if the client's hair is, like, super thin.
- [25:18]
B
Yeah.
- [25:18]
A
Or super broken and like, they don't have enough to cover extensions anyways. They can be called closures or they can be called toppers. It's kind of like a tomato, tomato thing. But, like, I got so many haters in the comments because they. Because I'm calling it a topper because that's what I thought it was called. So Many people are so mad and like offended that I'm calling it a close, not calling it a closure.
- [25:40]
B
And like you guys, other hairstylists were telling you.
- [25:42]
A
I think it's a lot of hairstylists, but like, it could be something like that. Like how I phrase something, it could be like, if it's not even hair related, it could. Like I saw earlier when I checked my account, someone was left a comment like, oh, I love all your fake jewelry. Like, it just like, what the hell? Yeah, it's like, let me live. You know, like, it could be anything.
- [26:03]
B
It's just. You know what, it's so funny because if you go on their, like actual Instagram on their profile picture or their TikTok, it's like you're really mad. You need to, you need to go
- [26:16]
A
get yourself if you can even see their page because usually it's private or
- [26:20]
B
does it even have user 5656?
- [26:23]
A
Yeah, it's like a cat as a profile picture, you know, or their dog maybe. But yeah.
- [26:28]
B
Now going back to that, what do you think the biggest misconception is about you?
- [26:34]
A
Biggest misconception? I get a lot when people meet me that they thought I was going to be rude or mean.
- [26:42]
B
Really?
- [26:42]
A
Yeah, a lot. I can't tell you how many times people are like, will tell me that they were like, scared of me at first because they thought that I was going to. They thought I was like, going to be this, like, conceited, like, snobby kind of rude person.
- [26:56]
B
Maybe.
- [26:58]
A
I don't know. I think that I come across as nice. But maybe because I do a lot of clapbacks and stuff, they think I'm just ready to just like, you know, cut you at any moment, which I am. I mean, don't get me wrong, but like, you have to be mean to me first in order for me to do that.
- [27:11]
B
I know. And you know what? I got that too. Like, where I went to an event, there was people taking pictures, right. Because of the pod and all that. But I was just so afraid to come up to you because you just look so to yourself.
- [27:22]
A
And I'm like, I think it's something about just being on camera. I don't know, it's like a separation when you watch somebody, you know, like if I've, you know, if you've ever met like a celebrity or something, like an actor or singer or whatever. Like there's something about just seeing someone on a screen that is almost like they're like not a real human or like, you know what I'm saying. I think that's what it is. Yeah.
- [27:43]
B
Have you ever worked with a celebrity
- [27:46]
A
trying to think? No, the only. Well, no, not that I can, like, technically talk about because, like, usually if it's like an A list or a lister, they have you sign all kinds of ideas and stuff. So I think I can probably say,
- [27:58]
B
okay, then maybe we should. We should go back into our last podcast because she was like, all the
- [28:03]
A
celebrities, but I mean, sometimes they don't. I know some people that work with them and they don't have them sign anything, but I did. I guess my most like, celebrity story that I can just talk about is I inadvertently worked with Nicki Minaj because I was collaborating with her stylist at the time. Tokyo styles.
- [28:23]
B
Love Tokyo style. Okay.
- [28:25]
A
Yes. And Tokyo was like, Nikki needs three 50 inch blonde wigs by this weekend or something. It was like a few days and Tokyo had all these bundles of hair, but it was like black, like Indian hair, which is very hard to lift a blonde. And it was 50 inches long. So I was up for like two days in a row, like, coloring all this hair. But anyways, this was early in my career, you know, this is years and years ago. So I was, like, excited to do the collab. I wasn't gonna even get paid for it. And then she, like, didn't even tag me, and I was so disappointed. But Tokyo did. Tokyo reposted it. She did it, but Nikki didn't.
- [29:00]
B
Oh, Nikki's getting very. Yeah, right now.
- [29:04]
A
I'm more team Cardi now.
- [29:05]
B
Okay, me too.
- [29:06]
A
Yeah, definitely.
- [29:07]
B
Yeah. I'm very much Team Cardi. Because if, you know, you know.
- [29:11]
A
Yeah.
- [29:12]
B
What? You know, let me go back because we're going to do this for the rats. How do you handle criticism then? Or jealousy, but from other stylists?
- [29:21]
A
Mm. I feel that, like, going back into, like, me being into energy and stuff. I feel like that energy is almost like food for me. I'm almost like, I. I almost feel like if I know that somebody is hating or is jealous or is intimidated or has a problem with me, I'm almost like, yes. Like, give me that energy. Do you know what I mean? Like a vampire or something. Because think about it. They're sitting there expending their energy, having a problem with me when I don't even know who they are, you know, they're not even crossing my mind. So I feel like it's just. It's just like I'm just like, growing from it, like some kind of villain or something.
- [30:05]
B
The reference is about parting Me out. Yeah, that was the best. Okay. Yeah. But I get you. You know, I feel like again, going back into that, I can't really relate because I really don't have that. But once I do, I'm. For me, I'm gonna be like, okay, that's my I made it moment. Maybe. You know what? I did get canceled a couple times on TikTok.
- [30:29]
A
Oh, man.
- [30:29]
B
And it wasn't a really good. It was really. They were coming after my image and that's when we were going back and like the whole camera thing. Yeah, I completely get it. I got canceled for not even something that I said but agreed to.
- [30:40]
A
Oh.
- [30:40]
B
And they were just attacking me. And then I think they're more cruel on TikTok than Instagram.
- [30:46]
A
Absolutely. I don't know what it is, but like, I mean, there's haters on all platforms, but TikTok is like beyond. You got to have a thick skin to be posting on TikTok.
- [30:55]
B
Yeah, like a really thick skin. And then for me, when I first got my. I can't. My cancellation moment, I was like, yeah,
- [31:04]
A
but I bet you it benefited you in the end.
- [31:05]
B
Can I tell you? I felt good.
- [31:07]
A
Yeah.
- [31:07]
B
I was like, keep on coming. I'm not gonna respond because I don't got time for that.
- [31:12]
A
Yeah, no, you don't got time to respond to the rats once in a while. They'll catch me when I have time and I'll do a little clap back.
- [31:19]
B
But yeah, you know what, if it'll make me money or nothing, I really wanna, you know. Okay. What? I also want to say that one. Let's get into some hairstyling questions. Okay.
- [31:30]
A
Okay.
- [31:31]
B
First of all, pricing wise, I wanna, I wanna know, I wanna know your menu.
- [31:36]
A
Okay. I. It depends. Some things I have like a set price for the service and then some things I do an hourly rate and then some things I do a day rate. So it really depends on. On what it is going to require. But I basically try to make it to where, you know, it makes sense for me to be able to spend as much time as I do on the client because I do definitely take my time. I feel like you can't rush the kind of stuff I do. So my prices for some things are definitely higher than the average stylist. But I also think my prices for others are probably lower than some, you
- [32:10]
B
know, for like a haircut.
- [32:12]
A
Yeah. So like for a haircut, you know, I only charge like 75 bucks.
- [32:16]
B
Oh.
- [32:16]
A
Because I'm just doing. If I'm cutting hair, it's usually very minimal. I don't have any clients that want these, like, precision, you know, bobs and stuff like that. Usually the extent of. Because they all have long hair. All my clients are long, thick hair. And if it's not naturally that long, it's extension. So it's like blending their extensions in or doing a little trim at the bottom, a little face frame. So it's like, you know, why. Why am I gonna price gouge people when I'm just. I'm not doing anything crazy, you know? But then, you know, for my coloring and my things that are really something I'm known for and can't be really replicated by anyone else, then, you know, that's where my prices are. Probably a lot higher than the average stylist.
- [32:56]
B
Yeah. There is this. I don't want to say her name, but I'm going to say it, and then we could blurt it out.
- [33:03]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [33:04]
B
And she was like, if, you know. You know who I'm talking about. But it was a huge, huge thing on TikTok.
- [33:12]
A
I made a video about it.
- [33:13]
B
Oh, my God.
- [33:14]
A
Kind of a little spoof of it. Well, with all that drama, you know, it's like how much she charges, but then she's not actually, like, touching the hair. Huh.
- [33:22]
B
What do you think about that?
- [33:23]
A
I. I personally think it's crazy. Like. Yeah, I think that's crazy. You know, like, you can't. Like, I feel like my prices are justifiable because no one else is going to touch your hair. You're paying for me to do your hair. It doesn't make sense to me to put your name on something. But then it's like a bunch of basically students doing the work. That, to me just doesn't. It's not justifiable.
- [33:46]
B
It was 4,000 for, like, a very. Even if they're blonde. Yeah.
- [33:53]
A
Yeah. It was a lot. Yeah. And I mean, and for me to do, like, what that girl had done, it would probably cost more than that, to be honest, but it would be only me doing it, you know, and it would be perfect.
- [34:04]
B
Yeah. And you don't have your assist.
- [34:06]
A
You don't have an assistant or no assistance.
- [34:08]
B
And then she would just go in for, like, a quick. Like, it was. I just seen videos of him, like, at the very end, she would come in and then she would just do, like, one tooth. Little hair trim.
- [34:16]
A
Yeah.
- [34:17]
B
And then a little fluff and be like, how do you look? That's it.
- [34:21]
A
I mean, obviously, like, she's been able to build a very successful business for herself. So it's obviously been working. But the thing is, all it took was that one girl to make a video and kind of expose it.
- [34:32]
B
Yeah.
- [34:32]
A
And then I'm sure it's hurt her. Her business, you know?
- [34:35]
B
Yeah. I. I want to know, are. Do you think hair stylists are undercharging?
- [34:41]
A
Some definitely are undercharging. Yeah. There's a lot of hairstylists that need to raise their prices, for sure. I think that's what a lot of stylists struggle with, is getting the confidence to charge what you feel that you're worth. I know I definitely struggle with that myself, like, the first couple years of my career, because I'm like, you know, you start with your base prices, and then it's. That first price increase you ever do is so scary because you're like, oh, my gosh, am I going to lose all my clients? You know, are they gonna. Are they gonna, like, argue with me about it? Because you're hoping, you know, that you can just raise them and everyone be like, okay, sure. But that's not, you know, that's the reality, you know, so it's definitely intimidating. And I think that's one thing that I always. Because I do educating, too, and I feel like that's a question that always comes up. Is, is price related and how do I increase my prices and how do I charge my worth?
- [35:35]
B
Do you think it's good for someone to char. Like, to raise prices, like, every year or.
- [35:40]
A
I think so. I think it. I think how frequently you raise your prices is just going to depend on different things. Like, I think maybe you should. My personal theory of. Of when you should raise your prices as a hairstylist is when you're starting to feel spread too thin with how many clients you have. Like, you're starting to feel overwhelmed, like, I have too many clients, then it's a good time to get rid of some. So what you do is you raise your prices. The ones who don't want to pay the prices anymore go away, and then you replace them with ones who do want to pay your prices. So every time you want to purge a little bit, just do an increase.
- [36:18]
B
Oh, okay. You're giving me some pointers from my own, because I'm like, I. I look at. You know what I do. I just got a Hydrafacial, and if, you know, you know, very, very expensive machine. There's like, a huge controversial thing. Like, why Is this machine $50,000? Right. Okay. It's very expensive. So what I do is I look the People around my area to see kind of like based off how much they charge. And then I kind of, yeah, go based off that. But then I also, like, damn, they don't charge that much. Like, I gotta charge more because, you know.
- [36:52]
A
Yeah. And that's totally up to you. That's the coolest thing about being in the beauty industry, I think, is. And working for yourself is that you can have the freedom to decide how much you want to make. So if you feel like, hey, I need a raise, you give yourself a raise, you know.
- [37:07]
B
Yeah. Do you include your. Because me include. Always talk about tipping. Do you include the tipping in your price or.
- [37:14]
A
No, I set the price at whatever I feel like, okay, I'm happy making this amount to do this, even if I get zero tip. Because you can never expect a tip, you know.
- [37:24]
B
Yes.
- [37:24]
A
You know, I mean, they're always appreciated. I have some clients that tip incredibly and I have some clients that just don't tip, you know, and so I. I think it's important that you. You never want to pick your prices with the assumption that you're going to get a tip because you might not.
- [37:41]
B
Yeah. We've had someone on the podcast, they include their tip in the price. So, you know, there's a lot of contrast.
- [37:48]
A
It's kind of the same thing, though, if you think about it. It's like. I mean, are they doing it to where it's like it automatically adds a percentage on top of what the client thinks they're paying, or is it just that they just make it. No, the amount that they want.
- [38:00]
B
Yeah.
- [38:01]
A
Yeah. That's kind of what I do, I guess, basically, you know.
- [38:04]
B
Yeah, they. I think he just adds it to the price. There is no, like, added on, like, only the year. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I think that's a smart way. But also it's like, not. We. That's why I got canceled, because you guys came for me about the whole dollar tipping thing. But anyways, it's not. Yeah, we don't need to be tipped. What's something clients do that drives you crazy? But no stylist says it out loud?
- [38:29]
A
No, Silas says it out loud. Oh, that would be hard to think of. I mean, I can easily think of a lot of things that clients do that drive me crazy, but I'm like, I can't think of. I can't think of one that's like, somebody doesn't say it loud. Because nowadays I feel like there's so much content that, like, we put out that kind of makes fun of that stuff. You Know says it out loud.
- [38:50]
B
Okay, then just tell me something that a client does that drives you crazy so I know I don't do it.
- [38:53]
A
Okay. I think what drives me crazy is when they want to change their hair completely like every single time they come in. Wait, like I've had people like that and like where, like it's so frustrating. Like you'll spend like in their initial appointment, like a whole day. For example, like I had this one girl, you know, 12 hour appointment, like 7000$, like this huge transformation. And then the next time I saw her, she wanted like it was to get her platinum blonde from like a mess of hair. The next time I see her, she wants to put low lights in. I'm like, girl, we just spent all day making you platinum blonde and now you want low lights in your hair?
- [39:33]
B
Like what do you say to that?
- [39:35]
A
I'm like, are you sure? Like, like you're sure what? I'm like, it's your hair, I'll do it. I'll charge you and I'll do it. But I was like, you have to know though that you, if you. Then the next time you come in, you can't say you want to be platinum again, you know, so that's the hardest thing for me personally that drives me the craziest is when they want to switch it up every single time because your hair is going to get ruined.
- [39:57]
B
That's crazy. Yeah, I want to know about the $7,000.
- [40:00]
A
Yeah, a lot of it's the extensions though too.
- [40:03]
B
Is it like. Here you go Zach, here's your cash or like a zell or like 7k on here?
- [40:11]
A
Yeah. Usually if it's a high ticket like that, they'll either sell me or just pay with a credit card.
- [40:17]
B
Okay, I want to know what's your highest. I just give me a number.
- [40:20]
A
The most I ever made on One person was 10,000. And that's actually my most viewed video of all time. 25 million on TikTok.
- [40:29]
B
Yeah, I'm in the. Take the fucking mic.
- [40:32]
A
Yeah. It only happened one time though.
- [40:35]
B
Okay, wait, hold on. This is a lot. What was it?
- [40:40]
A
So she had about chin length, box colored, dark brown, very damaged hair. This girl, she had only ever done her own hair and she was a big party girl. So like she would, you know, be on all kinds of substances, slapping bleach on and cutting it herself. So she. And then she walked out of there with 40 inch long ice, platinum blonde extensions and platinum blonde hair.
- [41:09]
B
How long did that take you?
- [41:10]
A
It took 14 hours. Yeah.
- [41:14]
B
Did you get canceled on Tick tock because of that, did you? What was the comments? I want to know what the comments were. The.
- [41:19]
A
A lot of com. A lot of the comments were really awful, honestly. But it was because this client. And actually rest in peace because she actually has since passed away. It's very sad. Yeah, she was actually a really famous influencer herself. But anyways, she had a very extreme body. Like, she was super into body modification. Like she had her bbls and her expandable breast implants and everything. So she was, you know, very voluptuous, covered in tattoos. So a lot of the comments and I think why also that video went so viral is because, you know, she had an extreme look to her. But. Yeah, but as far as the comments about my work and stuff, yeah, it's totally like, oh, you did it wrong or oh, her hair is ruined or she's gonna go bald after this. Or you ripped her off. I mean, thousands of comments telling. Saying that I ripped her off and no hairstyle should ever make that much in one day. And anything you can think of, they said it.
- [42:12]
B
I love it.
- [42:13]
A
Yeah, like the, like again, I just soak it all up.
- [42:15]
B
That's what I'm saying. I would just like, oh my God, you. But you didn't make the 10k. I did anyways.
- [42:21]
A
Yeah, and then I made more than that. Even on the views, you know, when they're.
- [42:24]
B
Thank you.
- [42:24]
A
Yeah, so just keep, you know, keep it coming.
- [42:27]
B
So do I want to know your schedule? Do you work every day?
- [42:32]
A
Not every day. I usually am in my studio Tuesday through Friday.
- [42:36]
B
Okay.
- [42:36]
A
And I usually start my first client at 11. And then I try to be out of there by like 8 o' clock usually. But sometimes I'm there later, like if it's a long project. But yeah, that's my, my regular schedule.
- [42:49]
B
I'm so proud. I don't even know if you. Like, we've never met outside of this, but I'm just so proud of you.
- [42:53]
A
Oh, thank you.
- [42:54]
B
Like, the amount of, like, it's just your energy, you know, like you're giving me real big CEO, real boss energy. And I love it. I love it. It's. It after I just heard the 10K. Okay. That's all I heard you guys. I'm like, down. Okay, let me see. Let me just. Let me get some juicy questions in here. Well, oh, what's a controversial opinion you have about the beauty industry?
- [43:19]
A
A controversial opinion about.
- [43:21]
B
Give me the juice. Come on. The tea.
- [43:25]
A
I really don't like the super avant garde things that a Lot of like platform artists do to people's hair like when they're on stage. I don't know how controversial it is, but I think like I never you ever paid attention to like when they're up on stage, they'll just make the models look ugly. It's like I like beautiful hair. You know, like when you take someone's bangs and raise it off to where they're like bald headed in the front or just like chop just you know, flinging hair and they're just chopping and just making a show of it. But then the model is like fucked up at the end, you know, like I just, I'm not impressed by that. I think it's very dumb. So I would say that's probably my.
- [44:06]
B
Okay. He felt real deep about that one.
- [44:09]
A
Yeah, I hate it.
- [44:11]
B
Okay, how about like a controversial like. Okay, for example, like on Tick Tock, right? Like this trends that you see. Is there any trend that just drives you crazy that people are.
- [44:21]
A
It drives me crazy when I mean it's quite probably kind of a stupid little. I mean it just, it's just kind of irritates me. I don't know why. When people take something that is nothing special and try to give it like a new name or something and I can't even think really exactly of a specific example of this. But there's a lot of hairstyles that will try to just like rename something something else and try to take credit for. I feel like there's a lot of that. This recycling ideas. But. Oh, trying. You know what I'm saying? But like trying to act like they came up with it and then getting mad when somebody does the same thing and acting like you invented it. There's a lot of that. I feel like.
- [45:04]
B
No, there is a lot of that. Like they're. They're taking that idea that they seen from somebody else and they're trying to recreate it and coming up with something
- [45:11]
A
that are copying and not giving credit.
- [45:14]
B
I hate that.
- [45:15]
A
Like I never, I'm. I don't know, you know if I can with 100 confidences, but I never saw a single hair size ever say what they charge until my video started going viral where I named the price in the beginning but nobody gives me credit for it. That was my idea.
- [45:31]
B
And honestly I see it all the time.
- [45:33]
A
Yeah, yeah. So many size. This was a blank, blank, blank thousand dollar client. This was a bottle thousand dollar client. And never acknowledges that I was the first one to do that.
- [45:43]
B
Are you really the first one to
- [45:44]
A
do That I think I was. I never saw. And then one day I was like, you know, I'm going to just say what I charge. And then the video went super viral because the number. People are thinking the shock factor.
- [45:54]
B
And that's how you get them. That's a really good pointer, is you kind of have to share. Right? Like. Like, how would it. Like the intro to the first three seconds of the video are the most important. Right?
- [46:06]
A
The hook.
- [46:07]
B
Exactly. The hook. There you go. Is the most important because as soon as you say that number, if I'm hearing 10k. Oh, I need to sit down.
- [46:14]
A
You're gonna watch? Yeah, yeah.
- [46:16]
B
There's another creator on Tick Tock. I don't want to name her. She is. But everyone. She's like, I don't know her name. She's a hairstylist, too. Sticker. She charges.
- [46:23]
A
She charges a lot.
- [46:24]
B
Yeah, she's huge on Tick Tock. She's. And her extension brand, too.
- [46:29]
A
She's extensions, too. I might know. I'm trying to think.
- [46:31]
B
I'm gonna send you her page. So, you know.
- [46:32]
A
Okay.
- [46:33]
B
But she also, like, the first thing that she does, and that got me thinking, is that she says her hook is this client came in and I. She charged. Or I charged her for. And then it sounds like a ridiculous seven, eight grand for this. And then she goes and. And she says the down. She breaks down the price.
- [46:51]
A
Oh, that's cool. I mean, I love it. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm just being like, messy, saying, give me credit. But I do think it actually is very beneficial that a lot of hairstylists are doing that now in their content, because I think it helps the clients out there, because, you know, they're watching these videos just as much, if not more than other hairstyles are. It helps them, I think, to have a more realistic expectation so they don't think they're going to walk. Maybe if they've seen a video where someone is saying, you know, this costs this much money, they're not going to come and complain when they walk into a salon and the price is high, higher than they maybe thought. So I think it only benefits the industry by being more transparent about pricing.
- [47:32]
B
But let's just be real. You started and that's it. Okay, that's.
- [47:35]
A
But I did start it. I don't know if I did.
- [47:39]
B
Is loyalty in this industry real or
- [47:41]
A
transactional, like, with your clients? Me personally, I never feel ownership over my clients. Like, I know some hairstylists do. Like, they'll get really mad if the client goes somewhere else or whatever, I have my limits. But, like, for example, if. If some. If a client of mine, for whatever reason, went somewhere else and. Yeah. Got their hair messed up or something and wanted to come back, I wouldn't be like, no, you can't come back now. Because I would be like, yeah, you're gonna come back. And now it's gonna probably cost you a lot of money for me to fix it, you know? But the only. The only exception I have where I won't take a client back is if they, like, just go and go to someone else and then, like, try to lie about it, because I've had that happen. Like, they.
- [48:29]
B
Yes.
- [48:29]
A
Think I'm not going to be able to tell, you know, that they went somewhere else.
- [48:32]
B
Do you say something?
- [48:33]
A
Do I say something to him? Yeah, I'll be like, I can tell. You know, I'm not dumb. Like, I can tell you got your hair done, girl. You know, so. Yeah. So if they do that. Because my big thing is I hate liars.
- [48:46]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [48:47]
A
I hate liars. Like, liars make me madder than anything else. I'm too real to be cool with life.
- [48:53]
B
So you. You tell them, like, right. Like, you.
- [48:55]
A
Yeah, I'll be like, I can tell. Like, why are you lying to me? Like, if you would just tell me that this is what happened, we can move past it, you know?
- [49:02]
B
Like, I'm not mad.
- [49:03]
A
Yeah. I'm mad at you. Yeah. Now I'm mad because you lied, you know?
- [49:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like. Yeah. Honestly, I get that all the time. Like, I have clients because I do Brazilian, and they're like, oh, I didn't. I didn't shave. And I can clearly tell, like, you're
- [49:22]
A
going to be telling her, like, the
- [49:24]
B
root of the hair is just not how I left it when I been waxing you. Like, no, no, no, no. But you know what? I should. I should call them out on their shit, because I really don't. I'm like, oh, okay, Nisha.
- [49:34]
A
I mean, you have to gauge your relationship with. Every client is different. I have some clients that, like, I've kept, but, like, they don't know that I know. But they went to someone else one time and that's it. And they try to play it off. I have, like, two people that I could. But it's just. It's just like, whatever, you know, it just. With certain. It's a great opportunity if a client is already kind of on your nerves to get rid of them, you know?
- [49:56]
B
Oh, yeah. So I Want to get into like the, the business of it?
- [50:01]
A
Sure.
- [50:02]
B
How what separates a six figure stylist from a seven figure beauty entrepreneur?
- [50:09]
A
I think what separates it is probably, I guess just laziness. You know, some people just don't want to put in the work that it takes to get, you know, to that status, you know, because it's a lot like, especially I think social. It requires having a social media presence. I think to make that kind of money in this industry, you definitely have to be utilizing social media one way or another, whether you're showing yourself in the content or not. And I think a lot of people don't realize how social media really is like another full time job. Like, I probably spend more hours working my social media than I do actually doing hair, you know, and I'm still like, I'm in the salon pretty frequently. You know, I'm there at least four days a week and working long days.
- [50:55]
B
And you still have time to post.
- [50:57]
A
I have to, you know, I got these contracts that I got to fulfill.
- [51:02]
B
You need a social media manager, but then also you.
- [51:04]
A
I do myself, yeah.
- [51:05]
B
Oh, I would think that you would have someone that would run your page because you're so.
- [51:09]
A
But I think that's really important. I think that's why my numbers are always really high, is because I like engage with my audience and also just with people. Like, you really have to socialize on social media, you know, so you have to put the time. If you just have somebody like editing a video for you and putting a scheduled post so it goes up and then maybe responding to the first few comments like, you're never going to, you're never gonna, you know, make it and be successful in social media. You really have to put in like hours. You know, if I post a video, which I post something pretty much every day, I know that I have to every couple hours throughout the day, I need to make sure I sit there for a few minutes and like respond to some comments, like, comments, you know, make sure I post my story a few times. Like, you have to constantly be working at it because if you let it slide for even like a few days, your engagement goes down. You have to keep the momentum.
- [52:04]
B
So is that how like your Instagram, like blew up your first one? Your first, your first. The one that I hacked?
- [52:11]
A
Yeah.
- [52:12]
B
So you were you posting every day? Like, was it something different? Was it just hair? Was it just like.
- [52:17]
A
Yeah, it started when I first started my first Instagram account. It was just, you know, with the intention to get clients. So I would Just post before and afters of up their hair. And I didn't even show my face or anything for probably, like, the first year. And then I started being like, you know, maybe I'll show myself. Maybe I'll show. And then just gradually, I guess I would just try here and there, like, showing a little bit more of, like, you know, my life outside of doing here. And I just noticed, like, the people would respond to it more. And then I started noticing when I would go to, you know, like, industry events and stuff is like, oh, wow, people are, like, recognizing me. Or I'd, you know, be walking around the mall and somebody would come up and be like, oh, I follow you. And like. And then I saw the benefit in that I was like, okay, it's definitely beneficial to not just be known for my work, but also me. The faith behind, like, knowing, like, yeah, who's behind the work. So, yeah, I just kind of kept doing a little bit more of that.
- [53:16]
B
So you were just incorporating, like, you know, you doing the hair. Not necessarily just of the hair.
- [53:22]
A
Yeah. But also even stuff. Not even related to hair. You know, I'd post just, you know, like, lifestyle stuff or, like, you know, me on vacation or my wife and I at dinner or our dogs, you know.
- [53:32]
B
Do you have just a business or do you have a personal too? Or is it just.
- [53:36]
A
I just have my one account. Yeah. So I just have. It's. It's kind of a little bit of both. Yeah. So I might. I'm on both my. On my Instagram and my TikTok and my YouTube as well. I'll post, you know, like, my pets, but I'll also post my work and I'll.
- [53:53]
B
Do you think it's, like, smart for someone to do that, though? Like, if they're.
- [53:57]
A
I think it depends. I think I always tell people, like, you need to utilize. You have to think, what am I using my social media for? Because if you, like, let's say like, you. You know, you own this space and you have, you know, it's like a. What would you. Is it a salon or a med spa or.
- [54:14]
B
I would consider a med spa.
- [54:15]
A
A med spa. So you. That probably to make that successful and everything you want to build up as more of, like, professional, you know, I. I would assume, like, if I owned a med spa or if I owned a salon, I would probably keep it more professional because the goal with my social media, if it was to just keep my salon busy, would be to just show really good work and show the space and attract clients. But maybe if, like, you're somebody who's just independent like me and just wants to get your name out there and, you know, work with brands and do, you know, you know, partnerships with them and travel and, like, do more things like that, then I think it's beneficial to show your personality in other aspects of your life, because then you build up more of, like a fan base versus just a clientele like me. I don't even take. It's. I'll take maybe two new clients a year, you know, so I don't use. Yeah, I'm not using social media to get clients anymore. I'm using it just to continue to build my brand up, you know, and obviously continue to create content for the brands that I work with.
- [55:21]
B
Because you're radius, you're established.
- [55:23]
A
Yeah.
- [55:23]
B
You have your clients and all of that. And I feel like, you know, going back to that, there is a lot of beauty professionals that incorporate their personal life into their Instagram, but it's kind of like, I don't see why you going to. And I used to do this, so I'm not even gonna say I didn't, but that's why I kind of stopped sharing too much of like, I went out, I partied, and I did this and I didn't. Because that's kind of not what I wanna.
- [55:53]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [55:54]
B
Perceive my page as, you know.
- [55:55]
A
Yeah, it totally. That's what I'm saying. It totally depends on, like, what do you want people to know about you? Like, how much of you do you want people to know? Because if you want to just build a fan base and you just want people out there to kind of know what you're all about and want to follow you so that they potentially support whatever endeavors you may have in the future, then stuff like that is beneficial. But like I said, if you want to just be perceived as just a professional and for your work, then, yeah, it doesn't make sense to be showing yourself, partying, you know?
- [56:26]
B
Yeah. And that's why I changed that. I was like, that's not. I'm not trying to be a content creator in that aspect and just show a day in my life because I think I'm tired of seeing a day in my life.
- [56:36]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It's annoying to watch.
- [56:38]
B
It's annoying to watch. I'm not even gonna lie.
- [56:40]
A
Like, yeah, there's certain people I like to see that from, because if for whatever reason I find them interesting, you know.
- [56:45]
B
Yeah, but it's more like a content creator. We're not. You know what I mean?
- [56:50]
A
Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. Like, it just, it really just depends on. You put. You get out of it what you put into it, you know, so whatever type of stuff you're posting, you're just going to gain more followers, people who are interested in that, so you can kind of tailor like your audience.
- [57:05]
B
Okay, we're. Let me, Let me get into two more questions before we end this podcast. Okay. What is the biggest mistake stylists make when trying to scale.
- [57:18]
A
Scale meaning like where other clientele. I think a huge mistake that a lot of stylists make is offering discounts. I don't think you should ever offer a discount or any kind of an incentive like that. And I.
- [57:31]
B
Not even model prices, like model prices.
- [57:35]
A
That's different because that's like still benefiting because you need the content. You know, sometimes you just need a model because you want to create this look and you want to wait for some. A client to be down to do it. That's different. But like, you know, for example, being like, oh, this month I'm going to do 20% off all my services, you know, because. And I get it, like, you're trying to build up your clientele, you're trying to get busy. But what I noticed, because early on in my career, like I had mentioned my first salon is that was a commission salon. So what that salon would do to get all of us commissioned salon stylists clients in our chairs is they would run groupons. So, you know, people would purchase, you know, a haircut or a cut and color package or whatever. So obviously super cheap, you know, and the people who are looking for discounts, in my experience, are the most difficult clients to work with. It's almost like. And it's not. There's always definitely exceptions to the rule, but more often than not, the more money somebody has to spend, the easier they are to work with.
- [58:37]
B
Wow.
- [58:38]
A
And I think that any hairstylist can attest to this. Like, I think it's because when you're, when your money is low, you're really concerned about every dollar that you're spending.
- [58:51]
B
Exactly.
- [58:51]
A
So you put more value on that dollar. So it's more important to you. It's almost like you're set up almost to have buyer's remorse because you. It's hurting them to spend the money, you know, like, they want us, they know they want the service. But like, they're like, oh, damn, I really shouldn't be spending this. So they're going to critique so much harder everything about it. So I feel like when you offer a discount, even though in the immediate you might be getting clients in your chair, in the long run you're just going to be stressed out and those aren't going to be clients that you're going to want to keep because they're
- [59:22]
B
going to always expect.
- [59:23]
A
Yeah, you're just going to draw a certain type of person. It's just a personality type. I mean, people. I. Because I think like about myself the way I am, I. If I can't afford to get something like by like the best, the best version of whatever that is, whether it's like, let's say if it's like some kind of beauty service, if I can't afford to go to like the best person for it, I just will wait until I can, you know, I'm not gonna go look for a cheaper way. Yeah. You know, like for years I was so insecure about my teeth and I wanted veneers. I could have gone down to TJ and got them done for like five grand, you know, versus here where it's like 50 plus. But I was like, then, you know, who knows, I could have problems. You know, usually if something is a lot cheaper, it's for a reason, you know, so. But I'm super easy going, you know, because like, when I. I'm never one to complain about something because I know that I've invested money in somebody who really knows what they're doing, you know, so.
- [60:25]
B
So what are ways that stylists can bring someone into their chair?
- [60:29]
A
That social media. I think social media is the best. I don't think you need to go around and hand out cards anymore. I mean, back in the day that's how we had to. Yeah, I remember beauty school. They'd be like, yeah, make business cards and walk around the mall, hand them out. I think when you're brand new, you know, and you need obviously to work on somebody so you have content to post on social media. Just, you know, ask your friends, your family. You're going to know somebody in your immediate circle that is going to be willing to let you do something to their, to their hair or, you know, their makeup or their nails or whatever it is in the beauty industry you're doing. But chances are you're going to have at least a handful of people that'll let you, you know, play around on them and get content that way. Or even like when. In my early years of doing hair, I did a lot of like collabs with influencers, you know, because I was trying to build up my following and stuff. So I would. I would reach out to a girl that had a lot of followers and be like, hey, I'll do your hair. You know, if you post me and tag me and stuff like that. And it was really beneficial. So you can, you know, work with influencers. You can do stuff like that. But I don't think you should ever, like, run ads or discounts just to the general public.
- [61:40]
B
Ads.
- [61:42]
A
Ads. Ads meaning like. Like, like Groupons and stuff, not like, advertisements. I probably should have worded that differently, but, yeah, like, you should have run, like, like incentives.
- [61:52]
B
Yeah, yeah, I don't want. Groupon is crazy.
- [61:55]
A
You attract crazy people. Like, 99% of those Groupon clients were nuts.
- [62:01]
B
How were the clients when you had them?
- [62:03]
A
There were crazy people, like, and also there are people who always are getting their hair done pretty much on from a Groupon, so they're going to somebody new every single time. So then you're dealing with, like, who knows what in their hair, you know, layers upon layers of different work.
- [62:17]
B
I never even thought about it like that. That's so true.
- [62:20]
A
Yeah. So.
- [62:21]
B
And I know I do. I had to fire, like, this one client that I'm thinking specifically because she would always ask me, what discounts do you have? And I'm like, we don't do that. Like, I don't. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Go somewhere else. And then she would be like, like, basically always coming in and what just come. Do you have today? What's this? And I'm like, I can't. Like, I had to fire her because I had to fire clients before.
- [62:47]
A
Yeah. Yes. You got to do it because. And I'm sure every time she came in, you probably felt stressed out all the time. They rob your energy because she's just like, oh, my God. Like this. Yeah, just bad vibes.
- [62:59]
B
Okay, let's get into one more question before we end this podcast. Let me see. Oh, let me get into a really juicy one. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay, so we're going to end it with bang, you guys, because this is my last question before the podcast ends. How or what is your thoughts on those hair stylists that perceive as this person online and they're promoting products that don't actually work just for the check.
- [63:26]
A
I feel that it's just very fake and very cringy. Like, I. I feel like you can tell when you see a hair stylist influencer who every year or two is with a different brand. It's like, okay, do you actually believe in what you're selling or are you just promoting whoever's gonna pay you more? You know? Like, that's why I think. Yeah, that's why I think I have. The reputation that I have in my industry is because I don't bounce around. I mean, I've been with Wella Pro for literally almost nine years now. Like, and I stand on what I say. Like, I don't change my opinion over the years unless, you know, technology changes or something. But I know some other, you know, hair influencers that will absolutely promote products that they don't use or that they know are not good, or they're saying that they use this brand, but they're actually using something else on their clients and not posting about it. So there's a lot of fakeness, for sure.
- [64:26]
B
Yeah. And it's also like that for estheticians. They're promoting skincare brands that are not good for you because they're getting paid for a check. Like these. These. What is it on Tik Tok Shop Medicube is like, a huge thing, right. And it's, like, not good. They're promoting beef tallow. Like, all this. Right.
- [64:46]
A
I'm like, I was gonna ask about that beef tallow. No.
- [64:48]
B
0.
- [64:49]
A
I was like, it doesn't. It sounds like putting butter on your face or something. It's like animal fat.
- [64:54]
B
I've. I know a lot of people that benefit from it, but would I recommend it? Would I use it? No. Why would. No.
- [64:59]
A
Yeah.
- [65:00]
B
You know, or Michaela on Gear. What's her name? On.
- [65:04]
A
Oh, the makeup artist.
- [65:05]
B
And she. Yeah, and she promoted a lash mascara. She was.
- [65:09]
A
Yeah. And she never addressed it.
- [65:11]
B
I never addressed it. I'm like. Stuff like that.
- [65:14]
A
I'm saying. Yeah, I hate the fakeness in the industry. And so that's interesting that it's in. I. I mean, I assumed it would be in the SD world as well.
- [65:21]
B
Oh, yeah. Thing is, I think it's all beauty industries that we all have our, like, nitpick, you know.
- [65:27]
A
Yeah.
- [65:27]
B
And I love that I have, you know, I get to do this and I have a podcast because we. We get to all share our, you know, opinions. And there are certain things that drive because you could say something and someone will disagree, obviously, because they're fucking rats. Right.
- [65:40]
A
But only rap work.
- [65:44]
B
But it's crazy because this is why I love doing this podcast because I get to learn so much. But we are going to end this podcast. We always used to end this podcast with the quote, but we're going to End it with, you know, whatever you want to end it on. You can end it with a question for me. You can end it on something that you want to leave the audience with. Okay, what do you have to say?
- [66:03]
A
Well, first, I'd just like to thank you for having me. It's such an honor. It's great to meet you. And this is a lot of fun. I would say to anyone watching, because usually anybody who watches anything that I'm talking about is people who are interested in social media and the beauty industry is. If you're looking to get into putting yourself out there on social media stuff, don't let your insecurities hold you back. I think that a lot of people are shy or are. Are afraid to be negative, negatively perceived. But, you know, if you have haters or rats, it means you're doing something right. So if you want. If you want to have a goal to be an influencer or to create content or just simply build up more clientele, like, don't be afraid to put yourself out there.
- [66:45]
B
Yeah, I love that. And just do it.
- [66:47]
A
Just do it. Yeah.
- [66:48]
B
What's the worst that's going to happen? They fucking hate on you.
- [66:52]
A
Their video will probably go viral if they do, you know.
- [66:55]
B
Well, thank you so much for coming on my podcast and you guys. We hope to see him again. Okay. But first of all, we add. Let me add this in real quick. When we look for guests, right, we typically ask, like, who would they like to see? And I got so many people that were sending me your Instagram.
- [67:14]
A
Really? That's amazing. Wow. I'm honored.
- [67:17]
B
I'm like, okay, we need them. I don't know how we're gonna get them, but we need them. So thank you so much.
- [67:21]
A
Thank you guys for nominating me.
- [67:22]
B
Everyone.
- [67:22]
A
Everyone who did.
- [67:24]
B
Well, we'll see you guys next time. Bye. Bye.