Clay Holderman, Chief Executive Officer & Neil Gomes, Executive Vice President at AVIA

Summary

Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

Episode Summary: Clay Holderman & Neil Gomes, CEO and EVP at AVIA

Date: November 22, 2025
Host: Scott Becker

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Episode Overview

This episode features a conversation with Clay Holderman (CEO) and Neil Gomes (EVP, Insights and Advisory) of AVIA, a leader in digital transformation for healthcare systems. The discussion focuses on AVIA’s expanding role at the intersection of healthcare and technology, with an emphasis on digital transformation, responsible AI adoption (especially agentic AI), recent strategic acquisitions like Panda Health, and building collaborative networks among health systems. The conversation is rich with insights into operational challenges, accelerating responsible innovation, and the future vision for AVIA and its partners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introductions and Backgrounds

• Clay Holderman shared his extensive leadership experience in healthcare, having served in roles from HCA LifePoint to CEO of UnityPoint Health, highlighting the complex pressures on health systems—from capacity and access to regulatory changes and technology waves. He explained his transition to AVIA from being a customer, motivated by AVIA’s unique approach to digital transformation and its capacity to drive change across a large network.
  • "[...] I've got over 25 years in health system leadership [...] I became CEO at Avia about nine months ago. I had been a customer of Avia. They had helped us dramatically change the friction of practice for providers at Presbyterian." (B, [00:54])
• Neil Gomes described his career focus on digital strategy and transformation, including roles as Chief Digital Officer in large health systems and insurers. Neil framed AVIA’s mission as helping organizations achieve digital value through network-driven collaboration, referencing their "5 Cs" framework (Calibrate, Curate, Connect, Catalyze, Celebrate).
  • "My career focus has been mostly on translating complex technologies, particularly AI, machine learning and automation, into strategies that drive measurable impact for healthcare organizations." (C, [02:26])
  • "At AVIA, we operate through [...] five core Cs [...] Calibrate, Curate, Connect, Catalyze and Celebrate." (C, [03:20])

2. AVIA's Focus for the Future: 2026 and Beyond

• Emphasis on Agentic AI & Responsible Innovation
  • Clay Holderman explained that agentic AI—the next phase beyond generative AI—is the hottest topic, with health systems eager to harness its potential but wary due to high rates of project failure (estimated 40% cancellation rate) from unclear value, cost, and risk.
    • "It seems like the entire ecosystem is buzzing and people are doing what calling agent. Everything is now an agent, whether it was really just machine learning or rpa." (B, [05:53])
    • "About 40% of agentic AI projects will be canceled in the next year due to escalating costs or unclear business value or inadequate risk control." (B, [06:37])
  • AVIA's approach: create learning cohorts, responsible use frameworks, peer collaboration, and deep dive into real-world use cases (e.g., patient access, nursing, contact centers).
    • "We've already pulled together more than 50 health systems on the learning journey about responsible use of AI, appropriate governance [...]" (B, [07:10])
    • "If autonomous AI was the brain in a jar, agentic AI gives us the arms and legs to take the next best action without human intervention." (B, [07:45])
  • Recent launch of "agentic AI thinking" cohort with 10 leading health systems; more cohorts forming to drive both strategic and operational implementation.

3. Best Practices for Adopting AI in Health Systems

• Skepticism and Pragmatism in Decision-Making
  • Clay emphasized that healthcare leaders are cautious due to past failed tech promises; real-world data and evidence—especially lessons from other systems’ mistakes—are critical.
    • "Health system leaders [...] are very skeptical of the promises that are made." (B, [09:22])
    • "There is safety and proof in learning from other health systems who are on the journey, not just where they've had some success, but more importantly where they've hit potholes and where they've seen risk." (B, [09:49])
• The Value of Networked Collaboration
  • Neil described the value of having a collaborative partner to vet technology, share research, and accelerate learning, which helps avoid the pitfalls of "shiny object syndrome."
    • "[...] having a partner like AVIA [...] to vet these types of promises and to get you to the right research, curate that research and get that to you so that you can make the right decisions, connect you to other health systems that are on that same path [...]" (C, [10:50])
    • "Being able to catalyze some of that change, even in small increments, sometimes can help." (C, [12:07])

4. Panda Health Acquisition: Driving Scale and Depth

• Clay detailed AVIA’s recent acquisition of Panda Health—a platform similar to AVIA’s own Marketplace. Both offer searchable, validated information on thousands of digital health solution companies, enhancing their reach and data quality.
  • "Panda Health platform was very similar to Avia Marketplace. Both dealt in trying to sort through this confusing landscape of thousands of new solution companies." (B, [13:07])
  • "We now have 80,000 health system users in the platform, which creates a community that's giving feedback and ratings into the marketplace and giving us intelligence." (B, [14:06])
  • Panda brings a "human validation" layer to AI-driven recommendations, adding trustworthiness and depth to their solution catalog.

5. Collaborative Programs and Access for All

• AVIA’s most exciting development is the growth of their collaborative cohorts, particularly around agentic AI and autonomous enterprise, now engaging not just major systems but also smaller and independent health providers—making advanced transformation affordable and accessible.
  • "To watch people come together and discover together, co develop, build frameworks, vet use cases and leave with individual implementation plans—that's an exciting way and we're doing it at a syndicated cost that is bringing affordability to health systems of any size." (B, [15:40])

6. The Promise and Maturity of Healthcare AI

• Neil reflects on the shift from AI hype to genuine, scalable momentum, crediting improvements in the technical infrastructure (e.g., EHR, ERP integration) for enabling real transformation. However, he warns that effective vetting and implementation remain crucial for sustained impact.
  • "We are in this opportune time in the industry when AI and the promises of AI aren't just like vapor [...] There really is something positive about this, right. We see it every day." (C, [16:33])
  • "But that even more so requires us to be able to vet solutions well, make sure that we are working with the right organizations that have our interests in mind and also that we're able to produce momentum and results as we move forward, you know, and not just talk about these things [...]" (C, [17:24])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Real-World Collaboration for AI in Healthcare:
  • "There is safety and proof in learning from other health systems who are on the journey, not just where they've had some success, but more importantly where they've hit potholes and where they've seen risk." (Clay Holderman, [09:49])
• On Avoiding the AI Hype Trap:
  • "You can get really pulled into the marketing, into the sales pitches and think that this is the one thing that will solve all of your problems. And with AI even more so. [...] So you got to be really careful about that." (Neil Gomes, [10:51])
• On the Synthesis of Technology, People, and Process:
  • "If autonomous AI was the brain in a jar, agentic AI gives us the arms and legs to take the next best action without human intervention." (Clay Holderman, [07:45])
• On Healthcare’s New Phase with AI:
  • "We are in this opportune time in the industry when AI and the promises of AI aren't just like vapor [...] There really is something positive about this, right. We see it every day." (Neil Gomes, [16:33])

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Important Timestamps

• [00:54] — Clay Holderman’s introduction and AVIA’s mission
• [02:26] — Neil Gomes’ background and the "5 Cs" framework
• [05:53] — GenAI and agentic AI: trends and challenges in healthcare
• [07:45] — AVIA’s approach to responsible AI and learning cohorts
• [09:22] — Skepticism and pragmatism in health system leadership
• [10:50] — The unique value of collaborative partnerships in adopting AI
• [13:07] — Strategic rationale for acquiring Panda Health
• [15:40] — Expanding collaboration and accessibility for health systems
• [16:33] — AI’s evolving role: current opportunities and cautions

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Episode Tone and Style Notes

The conversation is candid, approachable, and optimistic but grounded in realism. Both Clay and Neil openly share their experiences and lessons from leading health systems. Their focus is on practical digital transformation, collaboration, and the careful, responsible adoption of cutting-edge technology for meaningful—as opposed to incremental—improvement in healthcare.

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This summary captures the key themes and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive guide for anyone seeking to understand AVIA's strategy and the broader digital transformation landscape in U.S. healthcare.

Transcript

[A]

This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by two brilliant leaders from healthcare. We're joined today by Clay Holderman and by Neil Gomez. Both of them currently work at Leading Up Avia Health. Avia Health is a magnificent organization at the sort of intersection of digital transformation and healthcare. Clay previously served as the CEO of the UnityPoint Health System, a hugely well respected health system. Neil served in Leadership in Digital Excellence Digital Technology at Jefferson Health, also a magnificent system. Clay and Neil, let me ask you each to take a moment to introduce yourself and then we'll talk about sort of what you're most focused on, recent acquisition efforts, and what you see in the future of Avia Health. Clay, can you take a moment to introduce yourself?

[B]

Sure. Scott, thank you so much for having us. And you've already mentioned part of my background, so I won't repeat it, but I've got over 25 years in health system leadership. First coming out of HCA LifePoint, later going into Presbyterian as EVP and COO in New Mexico in a peer provider environment, and finally as CEO of UnityPoint Health in the Midwest. So I understand very, very well the pressures that are on health systems to manage capacity, create access, deal with labor shortages, deal with new regulations, with Medicaid funding, with the implementation of OB3A, and you can go on and on all of that shrouded with a wave of new technology. I became CEO at Avia about nine months ago. I had been a customer of Avia. They had helped us dramatically change the friction of practice for providers at Presbyterian. And so I was excited by their unique approach to digital transformation. Avia works with more than 40 health systems across the country. Systems like Boston, Children's, Geisinger, Indy, Anderson. And what we do is help with digital transformation. We serve one in nine hospitals in the United States and we serve over 42 million patients. So because of this, we're in a very unique position to drive transformational change.

[A]

Well, fantastic. And I always pronounce it Avia. Great. Thank you so much. Neil, can you take a moment and tell us about your background and introduce yourself?

[C]

Sure. Thank you very much, Scott, for having me on this podcast and Clay and Avia. I have played different roles in healthcare, but mostly focused on digital and digital transformation. I am currently the Executive Vice President of Insights and Advisory at Aavia Health. And my background is primarily rooted in leading digital transformation and enabling strategic growth across the healthcare ecosystem from both provider health systems like Jefferson Health and Common Spirit Health, where I led the Digital functions there to recently a major health insurer healthcare task where I was also the Chief Digital Officer. My career focus has been mostly on translating complex technologies, particularly AI, machine learning and automation, into strategies that drive measurable impact for healthcare organizations. And my expertise is about solving the most critical operational and financial challenges in healthcare today with technology that is both innovative and responsible. And I'm at AAVIA because I believe in the mission and vision of the organization and I want to help more than one organization at a time to achieve strategic value through digital with greater speed, discipline and impact. And at Alvia, we operate through, as Clay was saying, a unique network driven collaborative system which is built on the foundation of five core Cs we call them to ensure our members consistently achieve their goals. And those are Calibrate, Curate, Connect, Catalyze and Celebrate. To calibrate and calibrate, we assess a health system's digital ecosystem and capability, giving them an objective starting point and a clear roadmap. In Curate, we help cut through the noise of the 7,000 plus or even more maybe digital health solution market with solutions like Aavia Marketplace and Panda Health, which is a recent acquisition and we're really excited about that and we'll talk about it in a bit too. We also provide customized intelligence and proprietary insights within a unique Insights framework to ensure that health system investments are targeted and effective. And then we connect, which is very most valuable part of what we do. We facilitate peer to peer collaboration across the AVIA network and this allows leaders to learn from each other and accelerate their efforts. Learn from mistakes too. And most importantly, we catalyze, we ensure actionable results through special time bound programs like Avia Nexus. We move transformation from strategy to measurable outcomes in a matter of weeks. Not even months or years, but weeks even. And then finally we make sure that we celebrate these efforts of our members of the people we work with to showcase their wins, which validates their efforts, supports internal buy in and elevates their reputation as industry leaders. So as Clay said also in summary, AAVIA is not just a consulting firm. We are a closed loop partner that provides continuous insights network, the network effect of connection and a disciplined approach that is needed to turn digital ambition into lasting strategic value.

[A]

Neil, thank you so much. And Clay, let me turn it back to you and just talk a little bit about as you look at 2026, what is Avia most focused on? Where are you most focused going into this next year?

[B]

You know Scott, we've been to several of your gatherings and you can't walk into Any conference room, wait more than five minutes until you're going to hear about Gen AI and now agentic AI. It seems like the entire ecosystem is buzzing and people are doing what calling agent. Everything is now an agent, whether it was really just machine learning or rpa. And health systems nationwide are looking on how to harness the promise of these agentic AI capabilities to improve efficiencies, strengthen access and strengthen quality. But unfortunately, about 40% of agentic AI projects will be canceled in the next year due to escalating costs or unclear business value or inadequate risk control. What Avia has done is since OpenAI launched ChatGPT, we've already pulled together more than 50 health systems on the learning journey about responsible use of AI, appropriate governance of AI frameworks and an understanding of the risks and benefits in areas of promise use, case development and economic modeling. We just launched our first cohort of a gentic AI thinking, which is a different way of thinking. If autonomous AI was the brain in a jar, gentic AI gives us the arms and legs to take the next best action without human intervention. So we had 10 leading health systems in our first joint, our first cohort launch just last month. We've got a second cohort being formed now, but they'll look not only at the top, like how do you think differently in a gentic AI strategy and implementation, they'll go deep into use case application development, in contact centers, in patient access and in nursing with an autonomous enterprise nexus which takes not just the agentic technologies but the whole spectrum of digital transformation and says how do we reimagine the future of work? And that's being co designed with health system COOs and CFOs and it's solving on how do you have a high impact financial and operational transformation that really is going to go beyond just the incremental change we've seen. And then finally in that agentic wave, in that AI wave, we see the need for better insights, a source of truth, a place to vet technological solution companies, a place to determine who's agent washing and who really has vetted and trusted solutions. With the recent acquisition of Panda Health platform, the Avia network now represents more than 80 health systems and more than 75% of US health systems are on our platform with deep research on over 7,000 solution companies in 120 categories. So Scott, biggest trend, agentic AI. And we're trying to meet that challenge in a number of ways.

[A]

No, Fantastic. And take a second clay because one of the beauties of yourself and Neil in leading AVIA you guys have actually led health systems and led some of these important efforts. So when you look at some of these issues, Clay, like agentic AI, if you were still leading a health system, you had a multi billion dollar health system as CEO, where would you sort of, how would you start approaching agentic AI? What would be the process of trying to figure out where to make the biggest impact and how to use it?

[B]

Scott, thanks for asking that. Health system leaders have several decades of experience with failed promises from technology. Health system leaders are by nature very skeptical of the promises that are made. And they understand that it's the most highly regulated industry on the planet, more so than nuclear power and more so than aviation. You know, putting in place solutions in healthcare are complicated. And so, you know, the first thing I think you do is you. You look for real world evidence, real world data, not marketing promises. I think that's what Avia really does, is instead of going it alone and trying to research this sea of new ideas and new promises and new claims, there is safety and proof in learning from other health systems who are on the journey, not just where they've had some success, but more importantly where they've hit potholes and where they've seen risk.

[A]

Thank you. And Neil, let me ask you to take a shot at the same question. Because you ran Digital Information Consumer Experience, talk a little bit about, you know, how would you approach this? Because you've got the beauty of sitting in both seats. You're now running aviation, but you also did this in a health system, right?

[C]

Yes. And many times the challenges that we face, a lot of things that Clay said. Right. You can get really pulled into the marketing, into the sales pitches and think that this is the one thing that will solve all of your problems. And with AI even more so. Right. Because that is actually, actually making that claim that it can transform industries and transform organizations across. It's not just one little thing that it will solve. So you got to be really careful about that. And I think having a partner like aavia, even in other organizations where I worked at Jefferson, we worked with aavia, for example, but having them more as a continuous partner working with you to vet these types of promises and to get you to the right research, curate that research and get that to you so that you can make the right decisions, connect you to other health systems that are on that same path, may have not even figured it out, but are on that same path so you can ask better questions of each other and also move each other along. I think that's important. Your stakeholders, seeing that there are other organizations that are doing this and engaging them in those conversations is something that Avia can also help you do and I think is a good partner to do that. And then just from my lens, right from, from being in this position, trying to decipher what will and will not work, I think being able to, to catalyze some of that change, even in small increments, sometimes can, can help. And organizations like AAVIA can help you do that. They're bringing people to bear on some of these types of.

[A]

Types of use.

[C]

Cases and projects and getting things done very quickly so that you can actually show results and not just talk about it.

[A]

Thank you very, very much. And talk about it. If you think about sort of clay, I'll go to you first. This. What's the one thing you're most excited about right now? I mean, I know you guys just did this acquisition or maybe take a moment and tell us about the Panda Health acquisition, then tell us maybe the one thing you're most excited about. If it's not that, or maybe it's that and something else.

[B]

Yeah, super. So Panda Health platform was very similar to Avia Marketplace. Both dealt in trying to sort through this confusing landscape of thousands of new solution companies. And these are generally young in their life cycle. They may be startup, they may be Series A or Series B, and there are not a lot of other people who are cataloging them deeply. But both Panda and Avia had some similarities. We were both founded and governed by health systems for health systems. And we both had taken a deep look at creating a single source of truth marketplace that would help people cut through the hype and really understand what are the interoperabilities, what are the core technologies that are employed, what are the claims, and how would that compare to what you would expect in a category or a channel for capabilities for adoption. And so by bringing them both together, we've done a few important things. One is we've reached critical mass and scale. We now have 80,000 health system users in the platform, which creates a community that's giving feedback and ratings into the marketplace and giving us intelligence. The second is we have deeply researched AI workflows that are more than a GPT or a Gemini or a Claude search or a Perplexity. These are deeply scripted AI workflows that tap proprietary databases as well. Well as open market. The last thing you want to do when you're dealing in an evolving market is rely on just Internet based AI searches that are deriving their information largely from Marketing data. And then the third thing is Panda brought over deep human validation. And that is a step that's critical. Human in the loop we hear about across AI implementation, but human validation of AI generated or scraped content we think is a big, big differentiator from some other marketpl that may be evolving. So the second question.

[A]

Go ahead. Yes, no, please go right ahead.

[B]

Second question. What are we most excited about? You know, our DNA is collaboration and I guess what we're most excited about is seeing the number of avia historical members and independent physician independent health systems that have not historically experienced aviation coming together in these collaboratives. The AgentIC AI collaborative and now the autonomous organization, the Autonomous Enterprise Collaborative. They've really captured the interest and the importance and the priority of health system C suites across the country. And to watch people come together and discover together, co develop, build frameworks, vet use cases and leave with individual implementation plans. That's an exciting way and we're doing it at a syndicated cost that is bringing affordability to health systems of any size.

[A]

Thank you. I think that is so important also the ability to bring some of these technological changes to smaller health systems which are struggling compared to the larger health systems. Thank you so much, Clay. Neil, take a moment on the single thing you're most excited about this coming year.

[C]

Yeah, Clay said a lot about it and also I'd like to just at least put one comment in about the time that we are in. I feel like we are in this opportune time in the industry when AI and the promises of AI aren't just like vapor. They might have been in the past, that we might have got jaded with with high expectations in the past. There really is something positive about this, right. We see it every day. We are using ChatGPT, Gemini and other systems and we also have a progression of other technologies like ERP technologies or EHR technologies that have now been been able to ingest these types of new gen and other genic AI and other the technologies really well. So the technological infrastructure also in healthcare organizations has evolved to be able to utilize this. That is why we can talk about autonomous enterprise and orchestration across processes and platforms. I think is really a great time to be doing this. But that even more so requires us to be able to vet solutions well, make sure that we are working with the right organizations that have our interests in mind and also that we're able to produce momentum and results as we move forward, you know, and not just talk about these things or experiment, experiment, experiment. Don't have scale.

[B]

Really.

[A]

Phenomenal. I am so excited to watch what the two of you do with Avia. It's remarkable the careers you've both had. It's remarkable the intersection of the two of you with Avia and Avia Healthcare. We're very excited to watch this going forward. Clay and Neil, I want to thank you for taking the moment with us today on the Becker's Healthcare podcast to discuss what you're doing. Both of you are remarkable leaders. I'm so excited to see you leading Avia. Thank you for joining us today.

[B]

Thank you, Scott.

[C]

Thank you, Scott.