Becker’s Healthcare Podcast – Joel Gordon, CMIO at UW Health, University of Wisconsin

Release Date: December 6, 2025
Host: Grace Lynn Keller (Becker's Healthcare)
Guest: Joel Gordon, Chief Medical Information Officer (CMIO), UW Health, University of Wisconsin

Overview

This episode centers on the evolving role of artificial intelligence (AI) in healthcare, leadership strategies for technology adoption, and the importance of partnership and governance in driving meaningful innovation. Joel Gordon, CMIO at UW Health, outlines current AI use cases, discusses collaboration across organizations and academia, and offers leadership advice amidst rapidly advancing technological and legislative landscapes.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. AI Use Cases and Enablement at UW Health

• Ambient Listening as a Game-Changer

  • Joel highlights "ambient listening"—AI that transcribes and structures clinical conversations—as a revolutionary tool being implemented at UW Health.
  • Importance of individualized support: UW Health uses real-time dashboards to spot who’s not fully leveraging tools so targeted support and peer mentoring can be offered.
    • Quote:

      “The best help we can find is the person next door that’s just nailing it… there could be that internal guru for the person that is struggling.”
      —Joel Gordon (01:54)

• AI as Enablement, Not Initiative

  • Rather than treating AI as a siloed project, UW Health pursues “AI enablement”—embedding AI tools into existing departments and supporting staff to master them, with AI teams fading into support roles over time.
    • Quote:

      “We call it AI enablement, not AI initiatives, because we don’t want the initiatives to ... be in charge of everything. ... Instead of bringing on AI as a project, we’re bringing in AI as an enablement that injects in and supports the teams.”
      —Joel Gordon (03:08)

2. Innovation, Partnerships, and Governance

• Balancing Speed and Sustainability

  • Discusses the tension between moving fast with technology versus building for the long term, quoting the adage,

    “If you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together.” (04:25)

• Intra- and Inter-Organizational Partnerships

  • Collaboration between UW Health’s operational teams and University of Wisconsin’s data scientists enabled rigorous, evidence-based rollouts, as highlighted by their co-authored articles in the New England Journal of Medicine.
  • They maintain open-source governance and share their tools and governance models publicly, encouraging knowledge sharing across the sector.
    • Quote:

      “Everything that we did—our governance, our structures, our things that we did with our patients—those are open source, public domain sharing that’s happening through a GitHub.”
      —Joel Gordon (06:18)

  • Emphasized learning from leaders like Mayo Clinic, engaging in candid exchange about nursing tool implementations and best practices.

3. Navigating Legislation and Compliance

• Internal Governance First

  • Joel underscores the importance of prioritizing internal policies, especially on security, compliance, and ethics, before trying to influence state or federal legislation.
  • Uses an analogy: Clean your own yard before trying to clean up the city.
    • Quote:

      “You can’t clean up the city if you don’t start cleaning up your neighborhood, and you can’t clean up your neighborhood if you don’t clean up your own yard.”
      —Joel Gordon (07:49)

• Policy Shifts Impact Operations

  • Noted challenges from the discontinuation of the telehealth waiver, forcing operational adjustments after pandemic-era growth.

4. Leadership Advice for Navigating Technology and Change

• Keep Curiosity Alive
  • Joel urges continual curiosity to adapt to evolving technology, balancing excitement and anxiety:
    • “Just, it seems like I vacillate between shock and awe and excitement about the unleashed power ... and that’s okay.” (08:50)
• Maintain Emotional Balance
  • Leaders should temper reactions—nothing is as good or as bad as it seems.
    • Quote:

      “When things are great, they’re never as good as they seem. And when things are horrid, they’re never as bad as they seem. ... Keep your emotional mind in check.”
      —Joel Gordon (09:09)

  • Skepticism and steady-headedness are important for evaluating predictions about the future of AI.
    • “If someone tells you what’s going to happen the next 12 to 18 months with AI in healthcare, take it with a grain of salt.” (09:29)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Leveraging AI to Support Individuals:

  “If we said 80 to 85% of your surgeons are great and the others are struggling, would you leave surgeons to be struggling with the healthcare on the line? No. ... You need to be able to find those people and help them along.”
  —Joel Gordon (02:22)

• On Open Source Governance:

  “You never know when you’re standing on the shoulders of giants when you’re going to be the next giant that someone wants to stand on.”
  —Joel Gordon (06:55)

• On Managing Change in Leadership:

  “It’s okay to be shock and awe sometimes ... but at the point of being a leader, you need to take the emotion out.”
  —Joel Gordon (08:53)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:58] – Discussion of AI use cases at UW Health
• [01:53] – Importance of individualized support for adopting new tech
• [03:08] – “AI enablement” philosophy explained
• [04:25] – Partnerships and collaborative innovation detailed
• [06:18] – Sharing governance tools via open-source (GitHub)
• [07:24] – Impact of legislation and strategic response
• [08:41] – Leadership advice for future technology advancements

Conclusion

Joel Gordon’s insights deliver a nuanced view of how UW Health approaches AI not as an isolated project but as a broad enabler—emphasizing individualized support, robust governance, and wide-ranging partnerships. The discussion also underscores the need for healthcare leaders to remain curious and emotionally balanced amid rapid innovation and regulatory flux, with a willingness to learn from and contribute to the broader healthcare community.