← Becoming UnDone
Becoming UnDone
144 | Nadalie Walsh: Embracing Change and Championing Mental Wellness in Gymnastics
00:55:56
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- [00:04]
A
This is becoming undone. Well, when I tore my Achilles, I was in a wheelchair because I did some really bad damage to the other leg. Couldn't walk for many months. But I just remember getting to practice and I maybe cried a little bit for, like, a few seconds. And then I realized that my friend and teammate was struggling with her dance, and I wanted to make her better. So I got out of the wheelchair and I crawled and I helped choreograph on my knees. In some ways, I think the ceiling that I was put under, it was a slow, like, kind of death to my spirit in a lot of ways. And so I'm able to step into trusting and being who I am and rediscovering that I don't need to have a silenced voice. And I do believe that actions speak louder than words. And so I always carried myself with what my beliefs were and treated people in the best way that I absolutely knew how. But at the end of the day, I think I am right where I need to be in order to launch into being able to help more people and to really, really be who I am. I'm Natalie Walsh, and I am Undone.
- [01:19]
B
Hey, friend. I'm glad you're here. Welcome to yet another episode of Becoming Undone, the podcast for those who dare bravely risk mightily and grow relentlessly. I'm Toby Brooks, speaker, author, professor, and learning scientist. I've spent much of the last two decades working as an athletic trainer and a strength coach in the professional collegiate high school sports settings. Over the years, I've grown more and more fascinated with what sets high achievers apart and how failures that can suck in the moment can end up being exactly the push we needed to propel us on our path to success. Each week on Becoming Undone, I invite new guests to examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to. To falling into place. I'd like to emphasize this show is entirely separate from my role at Baylor University, but it's my attempt to apply what I've learned and what I'm learning and to share with others about the mindsets of high achievers. It's been a heck of a week here in Central Texas. Things are winding down for the semester, and the life of a professor slash student means I've got one final to write and and two others to take. If I can manage to survive, that'll put me nine credits deep into my latest goal of getting a master's in exercise physiology. Several people have asked, so I guess now's as good as any to tell you a little bit of the story as to why somebody with a PhD is pursuing another Master's degree, especially considering it's in my own department of Human Performance. It's a fair question, so let me try and explain. First, there's the pragmatic and maybe even slightly insecure reason. When I finished my Bachelor's degree in athletic training from SIU Carbondale, I wanted to pursue either biomechanics or exercise physiology. Thought either one would make me a better athletic trainer and strength coach. But most importantly, at the time I wanted a job at a major D1 school, and when Arizona offered me a graduate assistantship, I jumped at the chance. As a GA athletic trainer, I got a whopping $9,000 a year and free tuition toward a Master's degree in Exchange for working 50 to 60 hours a week as an athletic trainer to an assigned team, in my case mostly women's gymnastics. Those first two years, Arizona had a Master's in physiology, but it was a heavy lab based program and that would have had me doing research 20 to 30 hours a week. Meanwhile, the other gas were all in teaching and teacher education, doing minors in what would later become kinesiology. Whether I wanted it or not, that was really my only option. So I ended up completing both my Master's and my doctorate in teaching and Teacher ed with a minor in Phys Ed or Kinesiology. At the time, there were no doctoral programs in athletic training, so even though I didn't have a PhD in the field, I've always worked in Kinese or rehab science departments. That said, part of me always felt a bit like a pretender. While it's explainable and fairly common for ats of my era to have masters and doctorates in education rather than a hard science, I always felt like I chose what was easy instead of what was best. I worked with those credentials and degrees for years until, because of an interview on this very show with former student and former guest Dr. Ram Hadassah, I decided to get an MBA. I'd stalled out my attempts to get promoted at my old job, and going back to school seemed like a logical way to take some ownership rather than just constantly feeling like my future was in someone else's hands. So while I was working full time and enjoying my son's senior year of high school, I also managed to knock out an MBA through Louisiana State University, Shreveport. And I did it in just 13 months. It was a lot of hard work, it was stressful and at times a little overwhelming, but in the process I realized that it was showing me a whole new perspective on higher ed. Seeing things from the view of the student again was making me a better teacher. Not only was I learning new things about business, leadership and entrepreneurship, my love for learning coupled with a realization that I'd been coasting reignited a fire within me. When I graduated. That MBA marked my fifth degree and my second master's. So when I was considering coming to Baylor, they told me in the interview that after one year faculty could take courses for free. So I immediately began to search and I saw that exercise physiology degree was waiting for me. And unlike Arizona's more lab based program, Baylor's more practically oriented options are more doable for me even while I'm working full time. So for insecure me, I finally got to prove to myself that not only could I have completed that degree back at U of A all those years ago, eventually I'm going to find a way to actually make it happen while earning my sixth college degree in the process. Which leads me to the second reason I'm doing it. I really just love to learn. That's the dorky, nerdy answer. I'm planning to finish all requirements for this degree by next spring if everything goes well. And after that I've already got my eye on another Master's in Theology and Sports Studies in Truitt Seminary at Baylor, which would take another three years or so for degree seven. And who knows? I'll neither confirm nor deny that there's a spreadsheet in existence somewhere mapping out a way to get another doctorate, this time in higher ed leadership for what would potentially be my eighth degree. We'll see. The short answer is that I hope I will never be fully satisfied. I'll never really arrive. Pursuing better isn't a destination for me, it's a culture. It's a mindset that I hope is forever bringing me closer to maxing out every ounce of my God given potential. And speaking of maximizing potential, I'm thrilled to introduce you to this week's guest, Natalie Walsh. She's a powerhouse. A former NCAA Division 1 gymnastics coach, culture builder, mentor, mom, and now CEO. She's led programs, built teams and shaped lives for over two decades in one of the most demanding sports on the planet. I got connected to Natalie through my friend John Court, who's the highly successful head coach of women's gymnastics at the University of Arizona. My first year as a GA athletic trainer with the team was John's first year as an assistant there, where he had moved from his role as head coach at the University of Vermont to be in the PAC 10. John's been at Arizona ever since eventually ascending the head coach. He's not just a great coach, he's a great person. He's been a longtime supporter of the show, and knowing the themes and the storylines that often dealt with, he connected me with Natalie, who herself has been head coach at several programs. So shout out on this episode to you, JC. Natalie's story isn't just what happens in the gym or in the midst of a competition. It's about what happens when the career you've poured everything into suddenly ends and what you choose to do next. In this conversation, we dig deep into identity transition and the quiet courage it takes to keep moving forward when your path unexpectedly shifts. Natalie's take on leadership, mental wellness, and faith is refreshing and raw. It's a reminder that sometimes the undoing isn't a breakdown, it's a breakthrough. And it's a necessary step toward a future we have yet to fulfill. I hope you'll enjoy my conversation with coach, mentor, author, and now friend Natalie Walsh in episode 144. Dive in.
- [08:22]
C
Greetings and welcome back. Becoming Undone is the podcast for those who dare bravely risk mightily and grow relentlessly. Join me, Toby Brooks, as I invite a new guest each week where we examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to falling into place. This week, fortunate enough to have a friend of a friend, and that makes her a friend. Natalie Walsh joining us, a storied background as an NCAA gymnastics coach. Natalie, thanks for joining me.
- [08:46]
A
Well, thank you so much for having me, and thanks for just doing the work that you do. I think it's great.
- [08:50]
C
Well, I appreciate that. I started the show based out of a panel discussion that included two former gymnasts that I worked with during COVID I was teaching a course on psychosocial aspects in athletic training, and we were working remotely and students couldn't get together and they were bored to tears. So I convened this panel discussion and both of the gymnasts talk about how their identity was so closely linked to sport. And so that's been really central to the work that I've done here for the longest time. But before we get too deeply into that, I always like to start at the beginning with my guests. So tell me your story wherever you would start it.
- [09:31]
A
Wherever I'd started. Wow. Well, I. I have lived in four different states. I've moved all over for coaching college gymnastics, and I have a family and three kids, and they're all pretty grown up now and a grandbaby on the and so life has just been really full and really wonderful. And in my time of coaching college gymnastics, it was. It was amazing. And it was always a lot of. I wouldn't say trial and error, but a lot of really staying true to who I was, no matter what was going on around me. And whatever the pressures were, whatever the expectations were, just staying really focused on. I am here to serve these women and to build them into the people that they actually are meant to be. And in the highest level of athletics, that's. That can be really hard because you have to perform and you have to compete. And. And in all of that to be said, I just really feel like I built a career that was amazing and I impacted lives, and now I get to continue that and impact other lives and. Yeah, yeah. And so I'm in the transitioning time and I'm excited about it.
- [10:40]
C
Yeah, no, super exciting. So my story in gymnastics, athletic trainers aren't like coaches. I. I showed up at the University of Arizona and was told there was a position with football, there was a position with volleyball, there was a position with gymnastics. And I went there. And I. I'm vocal about sharing this because my two years with gymnastics transformed my life, no doubt about it. But I wanted football. I would have settled for volleyball. And I prayed to the good Lord, don't give me gymnastics. And sure enough, I got gymnastics. And I always kid with my students. Now I say, you know, it's the only sport where you walk in the facility and the word death is actually stamped on every piece of equipment in there.
- [11:18]
A
Right.
- [11:19]
C
So it. For an at. It's not unheard of to have no background in the sport and show up and get assigned that. That's not the case for coaches. So talk us through a little bit about your entry into coaching and maybe your athletic background leading up to that.
- [11:33]
A
Yeah, definitely. So I was. I coached at a very, very young age. I actually published a book a couple years ago, and I write a little bit about my story in that. It was kind of funny because it would be like high school athletes wouldn't show up to coach their kids. And then I was the middle school athlete that stepped in and just took over. And so my coaching started super young. I've never had another job, to be honest. It's always been about coaching. And so anyway, one thing led to a next, and my senior, My junior year of college tore my Achilles tendon. My coach ended up leaving and pulling me aside and saying, hey, are you going to do a senior year? And I was, you know, the captain and I ran all of I was a Division 3 athlete at University of Wisconsin Oshkosh and I I ran a lot of the conditioning and I led and I choreographed and I did all these things that I thought that was just me being me. I didn't know that that was a lot of extra and I didn't realize it was valuable. But when my coach left, he recommended that I stay and coach and so ended up being an assistant for two years and then took over my own alma mater at 23 years old. Couldn't even rent the vans. Had to get help with that because I was 23 and had 3k under the age of 3 and just it was a juggling act.
- [12:45]
B
There's a debate that rages to this day about coaches and teachers. Is being good at those jobs an acquired skill set or are you born with it? In Natalie's case, you could make a pretty convincing argument that she was born to coach. While many of us have stories of our childhood where our teachers or coaches might have been lacking, Natalie doesn't ever complain. She serves as far back as middle school, she's found herself not only being confronted with opportunities to coach but but actually taking advantage of them. When they popped up at UW Oshkosh, she wasn't just another athlete on the team. She found herself as a choreographer and in many ways filling the role of an assistant coach while still competing. When her competitive career was derailed by injury, she barely took a moment to grieve before literally crawling back into the gym to help her teammates be more successful. And it wouldn't be long before she'd get her chance to be the head coach for real. And you heard her coaching is the only job she's ever had so far. And as powerful as that is, there's no denying that a significant part of her identity had been tied to that reality. It will be years, however, before she'd realize just exactly how much though.
- [13:56]
A
I just poured into those athletes, met them where they were at and one thing led to a next in my by my last year there, which was my fourth year, we won the national championship and that opened the door for me to go to Division 1 ball state. Totally rock my world. I was not aware of half of what I was getting into but you live and you learn and I went through things from like they built me a facility and then put a 10 foot ceiling over the whole thing so you couldn't use it and made the pits too small and too shallow. And I learned everything from all about Equipment to remodeling facilities, to how do you respectfully, politefully, and really in a strong way stand your ground with administration? And so I fought to get a new gym and we did. And then that took me to Utah State after that. That opened the door there because really transformed the Ball State culture and took athletes to NCAA regionals. And then that opened up Utah State. And Utah State in nine months, just took that team. It was actually the highest jump in all of NCAA history to go from taking over a team that was ranked so low to in eight months, getting them to be at the NCAA level at regionals. And then that opened another door to return back to my more grassroots in the Midwest and take over University of Illinois for two full contract periods. And now I am not there anymore, but I'm definitely spreading my wings and learning from everything. So that was a big overview. Hopefully that wasn't too much.
- [15:30]
C
No, it was great. And as you're talking a lot of times in this show, something like an Achilles injury. You've been a competitive gymnast. I don't know how old you were when you started, but typically athletes in gymnastics are little bitty and so it's central to what you do. Like, your day is probably built around training. For a lot of guests, they would describe a career ending injury like that as something that was transformative and it sends them off in another direction. It sounds like you didn't get a chance to necessarily grieve that you were right into coaching mode right away. And so it. It simply became the next page in your journey. Would you say that's accurate?
- [16:09]
A
Yeah, I can really vividly remember, well, when I tore my Achilles, I was in a wheelchair because I did some really bad damage to the other leg. Couldn't walk for many months. But I just remember getting to practice and I maybe cried a little bit for like a few seconds. And then I realized that my friend and teammate was struggling with her dance and I wanted to make her better. So I got out of the wheelchair and I crawled and I helped choreograph on my knees. And I don't know, I think for me it was honestly a. So, you know, I'm a faith woman. I feel like what the enemy means for harm that God takes and turns around for good. And we have an opportunity to partner with him in that and for me partnering with him in that moment to take what was meant for evil and harm and to destroy me and to just basically crush the head of that snake and say, no, I. I still have worth and value and I am gonna crawl on my knees and help her get better. And so, yeah, I, I don't feel like I stayed in that pit and I don't even think I saw myself as in a pit. I felt a little sad for myself for a little while, but I think I knew deep down I'm made to pour into others. And while the sport was great and all for me, I wasn't the best athlete, but I was really good at other things. And so I just stepped into the other things and yeah, got some rub burns on my knee, but, you know, help the damn thing.
- [17:31]
C
So powerful. I love that mentality and it's, it's just kind of a next mentality where you just move on to whatever that next challenge is. And commendable, to be sure. So you recently concluded an eight year tenure as head coach at University of Illinois. And that's a Fairly recent development. August 2025, if I'm correct. Looking back, how would you say you're processing this transition both professionally and personally?
- [17:56]
A
I think in the personal side, I'm processing it in like, I think we get called and our heart gets called into certain scenarios and then you pour everything into what you or like the scenario you're in and there comes a point where it's like you're ready to be transplanted into a new pot. And I can honestly say that I felt, that I felt like, okay, I have created this great culture here and the athletes are happy and healthy and we're cruising and it's great. But my passion was so much more in the human than just like winning championships. Not that I didn't want to win highly competitive, but so personally, I think 2020, you know, the hindsight is 2020, looking back, I could see that I honestly could have even left sooner and felt fulfilled, and I didn't. And so sometimes life throws you a curveball. And for me, I was coming up on the end of the contract and my administration said, you know, we're not gonna, we're not gonna give you another one and we don't have a reason and you didn't do anything wrong, you did great. You this, that, and, or just making a shift. And so I could have sat there and been really angry and frustrated. And in some ways, it's always devastating when you have somebody else make some sort of decision. But in the true grand scheme of things, I should have made that decision. And so while I could be bitter and angry, I'm not. I feel like the, yeah, the path that I have now, I get to walk in more radical faith, blind trust. I get to pour into more people and I think I get to be more me. It was a very like the environment in the college setting. Like you can talk about pretty much everything about your faith. And to be honest, like I have a really strong faith and I it was hard to not always be able to give the true answers that would set people free.
- [19:46]
B
This is absolutely a sentiment that I think I understand and it has been highlighted to me in the year and a half since I left my role at a state institution, started at a Christian school myself. Natalie's clearly thankful for the time that she got to spend at the helm of the Big Ten women's gymnastics program. Prior to that, she'd managed to lead her alma mater to a Division 3 national championship in 2007. Then she spent six seasons at Ball State from 2008 to 2013, leading that program from a 65th overall ranking to 42nd. That experience parlayed into success at Utah State, where she guided the team to three four straight NCAA team appearances. Then Illinois, where among other accolades, she was named regional coach of the year in 2022 and led two athletes to the NCAA individual championships. But despite that slow, steady climb, she felt annoying in her spirit that whispered she could be doing more. Sometimes life has a way of suggesting we change course. Other times we get knocked out of the boat we're in and are forced to change directions. I felt this moment myself after more than 14 years at Texas Tech. I was comfy in some ways complacent, but certainly not content. For Natalie, that subtle whisper that she heard telling her to go all in was a problem at a state school like Illinois. While we can coach and teach and suggest changes, where we as believers can't go is to dig too deeply into faith. It's a tough balance to strike. But just two seasons removed from that incredible 2022 season, she she found herself non renewed. Where some would see tragedy, Natalie saw opportunity. Either way, though, that didn't mean it would be pleasant or easy.
- [21:21]
A
And I know this isn't what your podcast is about, but hey, you asked me to be here and no, I love it. In some ways I think the ceiling that I was put under, it was a slow like kind of death to my spirit in a lot of ways. And so I'm able to step into trusting and being who I am and rediscovering that. I don't need to have a silence voice. And I do believe that actions speak louder than words. And so I always carried myself with what my beliefs were and treated people in the best way that I absolutely knew how. But at the end of the day, I think I am right where I need to be in order to launch into being able to help more people and to really, really be who I am.
- [22:04]
C
Yeah. No, I love that. So powerful. I've spent the last 14 and a half years at Texas Tech. Prior to that, I was at SIU Carbondale. I spent most of my career in public institutions, and this past year moved to Waco. Started at Baylor, and I didn't teach in the fall, but I taught in the spring. And it was. It was jarring for me to be able to be a hundred percent like I could. I. I can distinctly remember having conversations with students and, and going all the way to the threshold of talking about faith, but then realizing, like, this is a state school separation of church and state, and just feeling like I couldn't be my 100% authentic self. And this semester in particular, I'm really leaning in, and it's. I'm right there with you. I'm tracking that. In order to be who I fully am, I needed a change. And that wasn't something I necessarily sought out, but, man, I'm thankful for it. And so I love that you. You mentioned that. And that. That you recognize to hold on to, whether it's animosity or, or bitterness or anything like that for going in another direction doesn't serve you, and it doesn't help you build upon the ministry or the platform that you have. During your time in Illinois, you were highly successful, multiple All Americans, Big Ten event champions. According to my records, 23 all Big Ten selections, Region 3 co head coach of the year in 2022. Can you share some of the mindset or coaching principles that you honed in that aspect of your life that help you build culture and cultivate high performance and maybe how that's translated into the work that you're doing today.
- [23:44]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you asking that. I wholeheartedly believe in servant leadership. I believe that as the head coach, if I were to sit at the top of that triangle and I would be the one that, hey, I'm in charge. You listen to me. You do what I say. You make me look good. You, you know, it's all about me, or it's all about you making sure that you make me look good by your performances, then I would have destroyed more hearts, and I think I would have become really caught up in my identity of their performances, making sure that my worth was, you know, being seen by their scores or their wins. And I believe that servant leadership is the way to transform hearts and culture, build trust. And so what that means is like taking that triangle and flipping it upside down, I'm at the base and it is my honest, like, role, responsibility and the honor to get to bear the weight and to be able to empower people and encourage them and to not micromanage my staff, but release them to do what they want to do and how they want to do it and be there to support them and give freedom and ask my athletes, what do you think? What do you want? What is in your heart? What's in your voice? And to really teach them to use their voice, to teach them about self worth and value. I think that for me, the servant leadership, the being willing to be transparent myself and tell them, hey, like, if I would walk into a practice and I knew, oh, I came from a tough meeting or I had something going on at home, I would just gather them and say, hey, I want to tell you that I'm going through this, you know, this small thing. I'd be transparent. And I just want you to know I know you're going to feel my energy. And I want you to know that it's not any of you. And I don't want any of you to automatically assume that it's something about you, because that's what they'll do. When you have a level of authority and you walk in the room, everybody is looking at you. They want to know, like, are they pleasing you? Are they making you happy? Are they upsetting you? And so my whole philosophy was just about empowering people, serving, leading, by bearing all of the blame, even if it wasn't mine, I take the blame and the responsibility and not taking all the credit. And so I feel like that culture instantly bred trust. And then I never pushed too hard, too fast to where they weren't believing in the process in themselves. And so my team's always peaked more at the end. And you know, I wish I could have been the, oh, we get out of the gates and win everything right away. But I really believe that the journey I was developing young women who could be great moms or be great leaders or go out in the workforce and be wives or whatever they choose to be. I really, really tried to make sure that what they were learning was life altering. And the ones that loved it, loved it. If they didn't like it, they didn't like it. But I definitely loved all of them the same. So that was kind of a long answer.
- [26:37]
C
No, I, I love that perspective. It certainly sheds light on a number of things. And I mean, I'm not unlike a lot of folks you know, love. The Olympics have been horrified at some of the things that have come to light, and in particular in women's competitive gymnastics over the years. Just atrocities that were swept under the rug. I think the mental and the physical abuse that occurs to a lot of young gymnasts is, it's, it's as tragic and it's as awful as it is widespread. And so one thing that I took. Bill Ryden was a former guest on the show. He was the head coach I worked with at Arizona. And something he said to me, maybe my first day in the gym, he said, I am in the business of reclamation. I am here to bring highly successful, you know, they were good enough to get a Division 1 scholarship, but they've spent over a decade, over half a majority of their life competing in a sport. Some of them, they don't even like it anymore. They're broken physically. They've been in many instances psychologically abused, if nothing else.
- [27:43]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [27:43]
C
And he said, it's my job to put them back together, to help them sort through what their relationship with gymnastics is, what it means to them, how it, it ties into their identity, and hopefully allow them to walk out of the gym at the very last time, hanging their heads high and realizing that the sport brought them more joy than harm. And I, that was weird for me to encounter that, that discussion, especially day one, because I'm used to basketball and football and baseball where they're going to college so they can go pro, right? And you know, it's a much different mentality. Knowing that and reading part of your bio, you've spent a lot of time in the mental health space, particularly in the gymnastics community. What would you say inspired you to champion mental wellness and how did you bring that to fruition?
- [28:33]
A
I like Bill Wright and feel like my career was just built on putting broken pieces back together and putting hearts back together and helping. When I say helping athletes trust, it's because their trust was broken and somebody abused them or they in their youth had a lie that they believed. And I just went after helping them dig up those lies and replace them with truth. And I would definitely say that because I saw the same thing happening over and over and over. I wanted to make a difference. And making a difference was being able to take what I was able to put together in the sense of like helping these athletes, you know, develop their self worth and realize that they're they're worth more than their score and their routines, and that they do have voices, like all of the things that gymnastics taught them when they were little. Be quiet. Line up. Don't say anything. Don't cry. You know, do it again. You're not hurting. That wasn't good enough. All of that had to be uprooted, and it feels foreign to them. I had athletes say, just yell at me. No, I'm not going to just yell at you. And why. It's because that's not the way that you need life to be. You don't need to be yelled at. I can hold you accountable. I can push you, I can challenge you, but I'm not going to degrade you. And so I would say that because I saw that for so many years, I just really started to realize, like, this is really what it's all about. And I wanted the community to see it. I wanted to the campus to see that it was about not just mental health, but mental wellness and total wellness. And I wanted that to be the thing that we realized was what we stand for. And we had at Illinois had one of my athletes call me one day and she just said, my brother died. My brother just died. Fentanyl overdose. He's gone. And that was the thing that catapulted all of my Illinois teams to say, yeah, there's a lot of causes we can have and a lot of schools that are supporting a lot of things where I feel like sports should be about sports. You don't need to always use your platform to have any sort of political agenda or, you know, something that is going to be dividing any. Anybody in the stands. And so this was the thing that brought everyone together. And I feel like that overarching, just mental wellness. And my team saw it too. Like, bringing people together is what we needed because community connection and transparency is what actually heals people's hearts. And so that. That was kind of the. The way that. That started. And then I. I would have camps and clinics and every single one of my camps and clinics the last five years, I have mental training involved mental wellness and confidence building, because if I can reach the grassroots, then I would love to be the catalyst to help a lot of athletes that go to college and help those coaches, because those athletes are more. Well, yeah.
- [31:33]
C
So, yeah, I think that's valuable insight. And I think sadly, a tragedy like that can serve to kind of coalesce an idea so terrible that it had to happen, but powerful and inspiring that you were able to leverage that into. Into something for good. For the first time in a long time, you're on the outside looking into this thing called women's collegiate gymnastics. And college athletics is evolving, no doubt. Facilities nil, transfer portal, athlete well being, lots of changes especially, I mean, it's been a long time since I've been in the space. From your vantage point, where do you see the future of collegiate gymnastics heading?
- [32:14]
A
I think it's going to head in a great direction for a lot of schools, but it could be a pretty volatile space for some of the other schools. And it's too early to really tell where the whole thing is going to play out. But beside just where gymnastics is going, where I think college in general with what is happening with these athletes, the money they're getting, the pressure they're going to have, the decisions they're going to need to make, the lack of commitment that they're being taught that they can show to their word with transfer portal and all of those things, I think that we have a whole generation of athletes that really need really good mentorship. And so that's actually what I'm developing an entire company and business on developing young people to be ready for what the NCAA is bringing, going to bring to them. And it's going to come with identity and solidifying who you are and having your feet planted and knowing how to communicate, knowing how to say no, knowing how to set boundaries and all of the things that I think I did while teaching my athletes, I really want to bring that to the athletes before they get to college. Because with the levels of depression, anxiety, suicide that I saw happening in athletes, not just like on my team, that would struggle with that, I would talk to all the other coaches. They struggle with all of these really heavy things and with that, like the changes with the ncaa, unfortunately, I don't see that being something that gets smaller for them. Those pressures don't get less unless we as adults with the experience and the vision can step in and decide, hey, I'm going to create an avenue to get you the training and equipping so when you get there, you can stand on your two feet, you can be you. You don't lose your voice like I started to, because you feel like you have to fit in a box that somebody else wants you to fit in. Like, you don't need to have that. And so I think gymnastics is a great sport. I think it can go in an incredible direction and it's wonderful for so many schools, but we'll see how it is for some of the others. But at the end of the day, those athletes are going to need a lot of support across all the sports.
- [34:25]
C
Absolutely. I think a lot of wisdom in what you said there. So no doubt about it. Being a Division 1 head coach for decade plus, I don't even know what the years are. If you count all the way back 25, all the way back to Oshkosh, it goes way back there. No doubt that creates a work ethic unlike a lot of other jobs. And it can be jarring to go from that crush of constantly recruiting, constantly preparing. I mean, there's just, there's no end to the demands on, on a particularly head coach. And now you've made that pivot. So talk to us a little bit about what you're doing today and how maybe that's been influenced by the work ethic that you were able to craft over the years.
- [35:11]
A
Yeah, well, starting an entire business and company is no joke. It is work. And I am, I'm so grateful. I feel like my two and a half decade of running programs, I ultimately was a CEO of people and managing everything. And so stepping into building a business, it's unchartered territory for me. But then again, it parallels very well to what I was already doing. And I will say this, like, I have even more respect for all the people that were working in the program. Not like for me, but working in all the different collegiate programs, whether it was the content creator or the person who was, you know, doing all of the bookkeeping or the person who was making sure that appointments were set. Like, there are so many things that I've learned to appreciate even more about how much time all of that stuff takes. And so I would say that just to kind of answer your question, the self drive and the motivation and the tenacity that I have was really developed in the two and a half decades of running programs. The difference is I have some, I just like more control over my schedule, my time, and I always prioritize well, but I really do, I do love this next chapter that I'm in. I really, really do. And, and I think a lot of people think, oh, you know, everybody's striving and clawing their way to want to get to the top, to at that, that top NCAA level. Like, I know I could always go back and it was my choice to not go back. I mean, I, I have a, plenty of, a great resume to step in somewhere else, but at this moment, I think I just really needed to go down a different journey. And I think all of my CEO experience is serving me well. So I'm running a business. I'm doing a lot of culture coaching for coaches. I'm coaching coaches, I'm coaching athletes, helping parents, and doing a lot of mental training and identity building, and the sky is the limit, and I'm traveling a lot. And so that's awesome.
- [37:12]
C
Right? Again, talking with Natalie Walsh, former Division 1 NCAA women's gymnastics coach and today owner and CEO and all things of Timber Ridge Venture and events, mom of three. So you're balancing a lot of responsibilities these days, as you look back, and for a lot of my guests, I guess I'll start here. Now, I have to tell you just straight out, your perspective on big changes in life is unlike pretty much any guest I've ever had. And I'm now closing in on, like, episode 136. By the time this goes out, we'll be closing in on 150. And just the positivity and the what's next is. I have to say, it's infectious, it's inspiring, and it is certainly something that a lot of us can learn from, but I have to kind of poke a little bit. Talk me through that last day when you. When you shut off the light and close that door. After eight years in Champaign, Urbana, what was that like? Was there. Was there any tinge of regret or sorrow or grief, or were you just onto the next thing?
- [38:15]
A
No, I really believe that you have to feel hard. Like, feel what is going on and identify it and don't just brush over it. Toxic positivity is pretending nothing's ever happened that's wrong. And I would say those last moments, I mean, it was really hard, and it was really. I went home to a great support system and family. And I think the hardest thing was being told he's done nothing wrong. You know, we're just. We just don't. Like, they never even said the words, we don't want you. It was just reading between the lines. That's what it was. And. And so just administrators make their decisions to go different directions, and whether the decision was the right decision or not. I feel like I don't want to be somewhere if somebody doesn't want everything that I have to offer. And so in answering your question, I mean, yeah, there was a lot of, you know, confusion, and I honestly, I cried and I processed it. And I remember a day or two later, just sitting around the table and with my family, and somebody in the family started to say one, like, negative word, and I just stopped and I said. I said, hey, I Don't want you to say that or anything like that, because that is bitterness. And I just feel like the Lord told me, he said, for all the bitterness that's all around you and all the negativity, do not let that take root inside you.
- [39:39]
B
This is such an incredible witness, and honestly, a lesson I needed to be reminded of today. Oftentimes, in my past, I would show my support for people I cared about, who I knew had been wronged by criticizing those who I perceived to have wronged them, or even just kidding around about those people that I'd lost respect for. Heck, in my world, to roast a shared connection that we both dislike is almost a love language. But Natalie's stance here is a reminder to me, and hopefully to you, that allowing that root of bitterness to grab hold of the soil of your heart is a mistake. And the deeper you go and the longer you let it fester, the harder it is to remove. But Natalie knew better. Even though she'd had a great career marked with lots of success and plenty of accomplishments, her administration decided that they wanted to go in another direction.
- [40:23]
C
Now, no lie.
- [40:24]
B
This kind of thing has eaten me alive in the past, oftentimes in job applications. The recovering perfectionist and people pleaser in me. I know there have been seasons in my life where the thought that someone didn't like me or Natalie's case didn't find any reason to fire her. They just wanted to point the program in another direction. That kind of thing would have kept me up at night. But here's the thing. We aren't for all people. I used this example just today. Do you like every flavor of Gatorade? Not likely. I'd rather drink Windex than that cucumber lime stuff. I choose what I choose because I like it. And in so doing, I also don't choose what I don't like. Well, friend, so it is with people. I'm not for all people. Some may look at me the same way I look at that cucumber lime. You're the same way. So when Natalie says, I don't want to be anywhere if someone doesn't want everything that I have to offer, that's what she means. And if we find ourselves any place where our people aren't, then it may be time to ask some hard questions and consider how we might need a realignment.
- [41:29]
A
This is your test. You can take the Beta Satan, which is the spirit of offense. And if you can be offended, Natalie, then you'll be a victim. And if you're a victim, then you're going to spew out words that are going to just kill and destroy. But like, I want you to have life and life abundant and I want you to speak positivity and I want the power of your tongue to radically transform and to. For you, Natalie, to know that what you say matters and, and whether nobody hears it or you're saying it, a room alone, like it is going to impact the environment. And so I had a choice. And I think, like, I needed to grieve where I needed to grieve, because I don't think that my feelings are too big for God to handle, but I needed to grieve with him and I needed to give it to him and walk through that with him and then to lean on family and to really fight the urge to be angry and fight the urge to blame myself. Because at the end of the day, you can search everywhere. There's not a single negative thing. This is just the decision. And they ended up, you know, hiring my staff that I hired and I trained. So that means that that culture was good because if it wasn't good, they wouldn't have kept them. And so I get to bless that, I get to empower that. And I probably sound sound. I don't know how I might sound, but I do feel like you feel it, you process it. You don't ignore it, and you learn from it. And then when it creeps up again, you feel it again, you process it and again, what the enemy uses to try to destroy you. I think that God wants to turn into good. I. I'm not a person that believes that all things happen for a reason. I think, I don't think God sends us bad things, but I do think that there's an evil world out there. And I don't think I was super appreciated who I really am. And now I get to. I get to bring who I am to even people like you and spread my story. And so I appreciate you asking.
- [43:21]
C
No, I love it. As you're talking, I'm thinking you said, I don't know how I sound. I would sum it up in two words. Refreshing. For one thing, it's so tempting for us to look for blame. And for me, that goes one of two directions. It's either an outward facing cannon, and I will point that bitterness cannon and I will just gnaw on that little morsel of resentment and it never satisfies, it just makes you more miserable. Or you can turn it on yourself. And like, what did I do? Where did I go wrong? How could I Been better. And I love the fact that you call that out. You recognize that you had a role in it, others had a role in it. But maybe there's not blame to be had, and that's a little revolutionary. In this world, there always seems to be someone to blame. There's never just a mutual parting of ways or accidents never happen. It's all premeditated, and it leads in a certain direction. The other thing I would say is it's inspiring to me is that the thought that you could be somewhere for eight years, pour your career there, and have it prior to that. And also just knowing what I know about college gymnastics, leaving a team is a hard thing to do, and leaving girls that you brought there had to have been a hard thing to do. But the perspective on that, that this is. I mean, it's really what the show is all about. You didn't have to fall apart in order to realize that you had a task left undone. So I want to applaud you for that. It really is both refreshing and inspiring.
- [44:53]
A
Thank you. I appreciate it.
- [44:56]
C
Yeah. So I want to be aware of your time. I've got two left for you here. First one's a little bit of an oddball. I love music and the emotions that it can frequently represent. If we were to play a montage of your life, what song would we pick to play in the background and why?
- [45:11]
A
Oh, you should have gave me this question before we got on this so I could have thought about it. Oh, there's like, two that kind of pop in my head, and they're by the same artist. It's Kim Walker Smith. And one is how he loves and the other one is where you go, I go.
- [45:31]
D
He is jealous for me.
- [45:36]
A
Love's like.
- [45:36]
D
A hurricane I am a tree bending beneath the weight of his wind and mercy.
- [45:49]
A
Oh.
- [45:52]
D
How he loves us so oh, how he loves us us how he loves us so where you go, I go where you say I say what you pray, I pray what you pray I pray where you go, I go what you say, I say.
- [46:26]
A
What.
- [46:26]
D
You pray I pray what you pray I pray.
- [46:35]
A
How he loves is just all about, like, God loves us. And I just think that so much of the world just tries to tell us that we're not loved, we're not enough, we don't belong, and we failed and all of that. And so that. And then the. The. Where you go I go I feel like is really good. Like, if you could montage my life, because I really do want to live a surrendered life, and that. That can be a really difficult thing. And I've learned to surrender more and more things throughout even just recent weeks, months. And so I would say that those two things, hopefully. And I think with the How He Loves song, there's this part where it's like he is jealous for me. Well, like that means that is a fury of love and I. If I hate me, then I can't receive love. And so I have to really keep working through the process of, you know, we all deal with self hate in some way or we all deal with like self criticism and self denial and self deprecation. And so that's not the way we're supposed to feel. We're not supposed to be self righteous, but we're not supposed to hate who we are. And so I would say I wouldn't want that song to play because I'm so loved. I would want people to see my life play out and them to know that, like, you are loved in your worst moments when you did terrible things. Because we all have the terrible stories. You're not asking me all my failures. All of them.
- [47:57]
C
Right.
- [47:57]
A
So, yeah. And then the where you go, I go is just. It's kind of like a. I would say like a battle song a little bit. And sometimes you have to go to battle and you go to war and you're on the front lines and you have to trailblaze for other people. So.
- [48:12]
C
Yeah, well, I dropped those into a. I've got a Spotify list. It's like a mixtape of all my guests. And so that one's kind of a fun one. As you're talking. I'm also kind of reminded for all the things I loved about working, two years of women's college gymnastics, I will say that you can't help but be with them that much and pick up some of the bad as well. And I was a basketball player growing up so I could have a not so good game and we could still win and all's well that ends well. Nobody posted my failures in on a website or in a news. I mean, gymnastics cultivates that perfectionist mentality from the earliest of ages. And. And I think that self loathing comes into the equation pretty quickly. At least it did for the many of the athletes I worked with. If they weren't perfect, they felt like they'd failed. And I love how you've woven your faith into that. And he doesn't expect perfection. He expects surrender. And that's, that's a powerful way to look at it. Again, talking with Natalie Walsh, former Head coach at the University of Illinois, now owner and operator of, of a business. You also kind of alluded to some other things that are kind of in the pipeline, maybe authoring and coaching and speaking. So I always kind of conclude with this one. What for Natalie Walsh remains undone.
- [49:31]
A
What remains undone? Yeah, I have a pretty big vision for developing this business, to have the opportunity to go around and speak and inspire and to help people change cultures in their businesses, in their, in their workplaces, in their gyms, their teams. I really feel like my training is really valuable and I've got a really good handle on how to effectively communicate, how to adjust these things. And so what's left undone is like, I want to reach as many people as I can with the doors that God opens for me. I don't want to go pushing them down. Like people either want this or they don't want it. But I'm working with families, parents, kids that need mental training, mindset training, uprooting lies and replacing them with truth. And it's called be ready. It's a be ready mental training, nutrition and NCAA preparation program. And if anybody is interested in it, you know, reach out to me. My name, my parents spelled it weird and I always didn't like it. N, A D A L I E instead of a T. But it served me well because now my website, my email, my Instagram is all Natalie Walsh. And so there is only one of me. And so I think what's really just undone is me continuing to forge down this new path and be ready to help other people be ready for the NCAA and helping other coaches, mentoring other coaches to be ready to learn how to be a servant leader and then helping business leaders be ready to learn how to empower their employees so that they can have a powerful and effective environment. Because I truly believe that as a leader you have the most authority, but you have that authority given to you so that you can shift the atmosphere. I want to shift the atmosphere.
- [51:23]
C
And if you can convince a 21 year old young lady to perform a routine on a 4 inch wide beam, you can, you can figure out how to get somebody to turn in their, their quarterly reports on time and stuff like that. So that high performance mindset certainly serves well.
- [51:39]
B
Well, I will be sure to drop.
- [51:40]
C
Those socials in the show. Notes and description, description. If people want to look you up and send them your way. Natalie, thank you so much for joining me today. I really sincerely mean it. Your perspective is a breath of fresh air and I sincerely appreciate your outlook.
- [51:55]
A
Oh, thank you so much. It was awesome just getting to talk to you. Great questions and thanks for sharing little bits about you. And I hope this, I hope this really serves your viewers and continues to build you even more. I'm Natalie Walsh and I am undone.
- [52:11]
B
In a world that celebrates the climb. Natalie Walsh reminds us that there's sacred strength in the fall, or even just in the redirection. Her story isn't just about what happens when the lights go out in the gym or the job title disappears. It's about what rises in the quiet after the identity, the purpose, the calling that can't be taken because it was never given by others in the first place. From crawling on her knees after injury to standing tall in the face of transition, Natalie Walsh exemplifies what it means to be undone in the best possible way. Not broken, but reborn. Her refusal to let bitterness take root, her commitment to servant leadership, and her boldness and speaking truth even when it's inconvenient. That's the kind of courage that doesn't just change careers, it changes lives. I'm thankful to Natalie for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to unknown podcast.com ep144 to see the notes, links and images related to today's guest, Natalie Walsh. I'll be taking next week off to celebrate the holiday, but after that. Coming up, I've got Marissa Nelson, who among other things is is the newest faculty and mentor for John Maxwell Leadership for John Maxwell Leadership International. Hear how her story began in rural North Dakota and how she transitioned from teen mom in a single wide trailer home to now owner and CEO of multiple multimillion dollar businesses. This and more Coming up on Becoming Undone. Some big news this week my new episode has launched along with my allnew Science of the Comeback digital app. If you're looking to go deeper with me or this movement of Becoming undone, check out tobybrooksphd.com it's your hub for resources, speaking info and one on one coaching opportunities. I'd love for you to check it out. Sign up for my newsletter and connect Speaking of Coaching My all new, all personalized all you coaching app@scienceofthecumback.com launched this week. If you're a high achiever facing burnout, loss or a major transition, it may be time to rebuild with purpose. With the Becoming Undone app, you'll gain clarity on who you are. Beyond titles and roles, there are daily tools for mindset, identity and momentum you'll also build a personalized blueprint to help you navigate your next chapter and exclusive one on one consults with me as you build your strategy and execute your goals. Join the community of achievers reinventing themselves. Your comeback starts now. For a limited time, I'm offering 20% off for while a Black Friday launch special. But act fast. This discount will only last for one week. That's it for now. Becoming Undone is an I Creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Tell a friend about the show. Follow along on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn at Becoming Undone Pot and follow me and my social handles. Toby Brooks, PhD on Facebook, Instagram X, LinkedIn and TikTok. Check out my link tree at linktr EE backslash. Toby Brooks, PhD listen, subscribe and leave me a review at Apple Podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. Till next time, Keep getting better.
- [55:41]
A
Sa.