← Becoming You with Suzy Welch
Becoming You with Suzy Welch
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Bristol. Has it Ever Happened to You?
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Today we recognise the achievements of candidates awarded doctoral degrees for their research. A doctoral thesis is a substantial piece of independent work based on original research. A doctoral degree is awarded in recognition of the candidate's success in pushing the frontiers of human knowledge further based on a rigorous academic methodology. We recognise this significant achievement today.
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The.
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Degree of doctor of philosophy.
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Dr. Susie Welch. Dr. All right. Well, there it is. You heard the claps. It happened. It happened. I did it. I did it. I walked across the stage at the University of Bristol in Bristol, England, and I got my PhD. And we're going to talk about that on today's podcast, but not really that. I mean, we're going to talk about something else. I'm going to tell you about the experience. By the way, this is the hat you wear when you're a PhD. Okay. That's why I'm wearing this gigantic floppy hat. And you can make the case that I went and got my PhD just so I could wear this hat. It's kind of spectacular. It's velvet and everything. But I think I might even just take it off for a moment because it looks good, but it doesn't feel that great. All right, Goodbye hat. I want to tell you about in today's podcast, not my velvet hat, but four crazy important transformative things I learned on the way to getting my PhD. And I think they may be happening or relevant to you as you are on your journey to whatever destination it is you are going to. If it's a new job, if it's a new role in life, it's a new relationship, we are all metamorphosizing and I metamorphosized to become a PhD. And I learned four really important things about myself and I want to share them with you because I would love you to learn them about yourself possibly no matter where you are, if you're just coming out of school, if you're in school, if you are going into your third half, you're retiring or you just had a kid. So I want to take you on the journey with me. It has a happy ending because I got the PhD and it's called of a surprise ending when you hear my fourth takeaway from the whole ding dang thing. And so I hope you are ready for the journey we're going to go on together. By the way, let me tell you who I am and what we're doing here. I'm Susie Welch. I am a professor of management practice at NYU Stern School of Business where I teach a class on management. Right. But I also teach this class called Becoming youg, which was what this podcast is named after. Becoming youg is a methodology that leads you to figure out what your purpose is, what you should do with your life. And students at NYU in Stern, the business school, take it. But I also teach it in open enrollment in three day workshops. I've taught it to thousands of people at this point, and I have a book about it. And so I teach becoming you, but I am also a person who is becoming. That ing part is really important. You are becoming. I mean, we are never done becoming. And I learned a lot in this last phase of me becoming. You know, look, this whole podcast is about finding out what you were meant to be and going on that journey. We are all on a journey. I mean, I know it sounds. Maybe it sounds cliche to say we're all on a journey, but guess what? Sometimes cliches exist because they're true. We are. The minute you think you're not on a journey anymore, that's not good. And so sometimes we have to push ourselves on the journey. Sometimes the journey is exhausting. But the journey is meant to teach us. It is all about the journey. So come with me on my journey to getting my PhD. One of the craziest things I ever did. And maybe that's why it taught me so much. So let's start with the first thing that I learned. And it goes back to the origin story of me getting my PhD. You know how old that origin story is? I got my MBA at the fancy pants Harvard Business School in 1988. I graduated. That's how old I am. And while I was there, I was a good student. Man, I was a good doobie. First of all, I didn't think I should have gotten in. And so I went in with this gigantic chip on my shoulder, thinking, I have no idea why they've accepted me. I. Why? Because I'd been a crime reporter in Miami when I decided I wanted to actually switch over to business, and therefore thought, well, I'm here in Boston. Why don't I just apply to business school? And I did this. Whatever. I applied to Harvard Business School. And they let me in. And I got there and I thought, well, I certainly don't belong here with all these bankers and all these consultants. I've got to work harder and prove myself deeper. And I just gotta. I gotta get up to bat every single day and hit a home run. And so I studied, studied, studied. And that made me much better at school than all the kids who were there to network and party. God bless their little souls. And pretty early on, the dean of the school approached me. I went to his office. I actually thought I was in trouble. No lie, I thought I was in trouble. And I sat down. He said, well, Susie, hi. You know, we're watching you with, with great interest. And at this point, they'd asked me to be a tutor for students in finance, which I thought they had the wrong person, but apparently I was good at finance. And he said to me, you know, Susie, one thing I want to talk to you about is someday you're going to be an academ. And so I'm curious if you would just like to stay here and do it with us, get your PhD here at Harvard Business School with us. And I was just sitting there like, someday I'm going to be an academic. He was telling me, and why don't you just stay here and do it at Harvard Business School? I mean, there was just so much to process. First of all, I had gone in the door thinking I was in trouble. And then I have the dean telling me I'm going to be an academic and I should stay at Harvard Business School and get my PhD there. And he starts painting this picture of how glorious it will be. And all I could think to myself is like, I was having out of body experience. But mainly I was thinking, I will never be an academic, never, because I don't want to be poor. And you have to remember, at that time, I was poor. I was paying for my own business school. I'd been a reporter. I think my salary in those days, honestly, at the Miami Herald, when I was a crime reporter, there was like $15,000 a year. I was living, like many people, I was living month to month. And then my husband, who I was married to at the time, lost his job while I was in business school. And we were living off of fumes, and we lived in a house where we got regularly broken into. And I was driving a car where I could see the highway through the floor. And I thought, academic. I'm signing up for becoming a consultant. I'm going to the land of milk and honey over in consulting. And the consultants were interested in me, and so were the investment bankers because I had such good grades and it was all kind of working out. And I thought my days of being poor are over. So I very nicely said to the dean, you know, actually, I'm. I'm quite interested in really sort of practicing business, and I'll be going to Bain this summer. And he said, you know, he repeated, you're meant to be an academic, and you're going to be an academic someday, and I hope you'll reconsider this. And he kind of pursued me. And by kinda, I mean he wildly pursued me to become an academic for the rest of my time at hbs. And the whole time I was thinking, he's like, what's wrong with that guy? He's a nut job. And actually, he was a brilliant professor. But I thought he was crazy talking to me about this. Well, Fast forward to 2020, when I did become an academic. Long time later, and I. I was in the classroom and I was teaching Becoming youg at NYU Stern. And I thought I felt myself levitating off the ground. I felt my feet raising off the ground. And I thought, I'm as happy as I've ever been in my life. Why? Because I was living my purpose. I was living my values, my aptitudes, and my economically viable interests. That's the premise of the becoming you methodology. If you're just joining us, which is that your purpose lies at the intersection of these three data sets. Your values, your aptitudes, and your intellectually, your economically viable interests. And there I was teaching. I was an academic, and I was levitating, and I was like, I am transcendent. He was right. What did he see? He has since passed away. If he hadn't believe me, I would have tracked him down and I would say to him, what did you see that I did not see about myself? Okay, so I had become an academic, and I, as he had predicted, and I was extremely joyful to be one. I am still joyful to be one. I've recently been elevating my lectures that are starting up again in the fall for my management class. And I actually think to myself, this is literally like eating a profiterole. It's so delicious to me, by the way, if you've never had a profiterole, highly recommend. Okay, so anyway, I do have one vice, and that's it. That's eating profiteroles. So I did go on and have a career in business. I had a great career in consulting. And then I went on and I joined together my writing experience with being a consultant, and I went into broadcast journalism. I ended up writing books, and everything was kind of going along. And then I did end up at Stern. And when I got to Stern, I looked around at the other academics and I thought to myself, one of these things is not like the other. Okay? If you have kids, you know that the Sesame street song One of these Things is Not. And it was me. I didn't have a PhD. And I thought, I am never going to be taken seriously here as an academic if I don't get my PhD. So I went to my boss, the great Steve Blader. He was the chairman of the department at that time. And I said, steve, I think I need to get a PhD. And he looked at me, his eyes were like really big. And he said, susie, you don't need that credential. You're a professor of management practice. We don't expect you to have a PhD. You're perfectly well credentialed from Harvard Business School. And I said, no, I think I really need it. And he said, you don't need it. And I said, well, I need you to write the recommendation. I'm going to become a PhD. And he was like, okay, but you really don't need this. He must have gone home and said to his husband, she's a freaking nutter, okay? And he's a dear friend of mine. But I got to believe that what he went home and said to his husband was, susie Welch just continues to make me think she's vaguely insane. So anyway, I then thought, well, how am I going to get a PhD at age I was 60 something and 62 maybe at the time. And right at that moment, God did a very funny thing, which is he placed my lifelong friend, Evelyn Samuels Welch in my backyard. Now this is somebody who was my high school roommate at Exeter. We were two hungry, ferocious, ambitious little girls with families that couldn't deal with us. We were both sent away to Exeter to boarding school and we became roommates at 14 years old. And life is funny. It went on. She actually did become a very renowned academic. She went off to England. She got a PhD. She's a like, probably the world's leading scholar in the Renaissance. She became a leader in academia in England. She married a British fellow and stayed there. So she's visiting the United States a couple springs ago. We're sitting out in the backyard having a glass of wine and look, remember, We've been friends 50 years at this point. We've raised our children together. We've been through divorces and remarriages together. We just know each other. Once she said to one of my kids, sue, there are no secrets with Susie and I. And one of my kids said to me, is it true that the one person you have no secrets from Israel is Evelyn? And I said, well, since Jack died, yeah, probably. She's the one person who knows everything. So we're Sitting out in the backyard and we had enough wine that I was probably a little shifu. I don't drink a lot. So when I have one glass of wine, okay, I got drunk and I started to bitch and moan to her about how I didn't have my PhD. And I said to her, I'll never have my PhD. It's not right. I was born to have a PhD. This is my career now. I could never get one. And it's not fair. I said to her, because my research is really good. So at this time, I'd started to do research. Oh my God, the research department, nyu, they're still not over. What happened when I landed, I was like, bat out of hell with the research. And I said, my research is good enough to be in a PhD. I am moving my field forward with the work I'm doing in values expression. The work I'm doing in becoming you is thesis worthy. And I was raging away and she was like drinking her wine, looking at me, and she just finally said, would you please stop? You have to get your PhD. In Europe. You can get a PhD by publication. Everything that you've written before in your life is counted. You knit it together with a big, big thesis. You go before the examiners. It's a very robust way to get your PhD. It's in. It's very prominent in Europe. It's just not that prominent in the United States. Come to Bristol and get it with us. And she said, I'm going to have to separate myself totally from you. We're not going to be able to talk for a few years because of our relationship. So this is a legitimate high integrity process. But come and get it with us. I can open the doors to you. You're going to have to get in and all those other things. And I'm going to wave goodbye to you during the process. But shut up, Susie, and just get your PhD. And I said, okay. After I got over myself and I applied and that professor Steve Blader wrote one of my recommendations. The great Sonia Marciano, a strategy professor, wrote the other recommendation. I got in, I started the process. I got my thesis advisors. Evelyn and I had to agree to like, code of silence. We couldn't discuss anything I was doing. We did continue to discuss our children because that's what mom friends do. But we couldn't discuss anything around my thesis. And I went ahead and I started writing it. And a lot of times it was so hard that I. At late at night, I would think to myself, why are you doing this? Why Are you doing this? What's wrong with you? Okay. And have you had those thoughts? Have you thought, why are you doing this? What's wrong with you? I started to really beat myself up. And I happen to be a big advocate for the Enneagram. It's a personality type indicator. I use it in my class. If you don't know about Enneagram and you break your leg and you have three months where you can't do anything, go down the rabbit hole of Enneagram, you're going to learn a lot. I love it. I'm a type 3. That means I'm an achiever. And I often use this type to explain myself to the world. I say, I'm an achiever. Enneagram type 3. It means I live for the claps. I'm validated by the collapse. You go, susie, good girl. You did it. And I started to tell myself, and I started to tell the world, I am getting my PhD because I'm an enneagram type 3. I'm an achiever. I need the claps. And I kind of hated it. But I thought that was the truth, and I used that as an explanation. And then I got my PhD. It was the hardest, Honestly, the hardest thing I've ever done. And after it was over, an interesting thing happened. For the integrity of the process, we decided that my board of examiners had to be killer because, again, I was friends with the president of the university. And so my thesis advisor said, who's the toughest, most respected, most renowned expert in your field in the United States? Forget the Brits. Let's bring in the Americans. And I said, well, that would be Bob Sutton at Stanford. And they said, do you think you could ask Bob Sutton to be one of your examiners? And I said, well, I've known him for a couple. I've known him since I was at the Harvard Business Review when I used to edit him. So I asked him and he said, yes, this was terrifying because this is like bringing in God, okay, to judge your behavior. And so he was my examiner, and he was brutal. Like, actually, during the examination, there were other thesis examiners, but during it, I actually thought, oh, my God, I'm not going to get my PhD. This is so hard. I thought Bob Sutton liked me. And I think actually at a certain point in my examination, I was on the verge of tears. I thought, oh, I'm actually. I'm not going to pass. It was like an hour and a half, two hours in, and I think Bob saw my face and he said, oh, Susie, you're going to pass, but this is what we have to do. And I was like, oh, I'm actually going to pass. That's how hard it was. I thought I was going to flunk in the examination because he was coming at me. So when it was all over, I wrote him to thank him because I learned a lot during the examination and they did make the thesis better and underpass. And afterwards he wrote me an email back, and I think I'm just going to read it to you, one line from it, because it's what I learned in this whole process. I'm going to try not to cry. He said, susie, you were an r. Remarkable, one of the most amazing and brave people I've ever met. I think I've stared at that word brave. I looked at this email. I was. I could barely function the day after I got it because he gave me this word, which was that I was not a little. A cheaper girl, that maybe I was just brave. This was just a whole other way of understanding me that was not mean. Like, I'm mean to myself. I'm like, you just want to hear the claps. Why are you so driven? Why are you so intense? Why can't you stop? But what he said was, I was just brave. And I thought, why can't I tell myself I'm brave? Maybe I am. I think I might be. I mean, not to be like an asshat, but like, I lived through my husband's death and then I reinvented myself and I did. Maybe not something. Maybe not something grubby and achiever like, but I did something brave. I did something scary and brave. And so I guess the first thing I learned was that we can be nice to ourselves in understanding our journey. I don't know, maybe you are nice to yourself already. So this is not relevant to you, but I don't think any of us are nice enough to ourselves in understanding. We explain away ourselves to ourselves in ways that are not always loving. And I think I'm 65 years old and this was a moment where I thought, susie, be tender with you. Stop picking on you. And so one of the things I learned about my journey to getting my PhD was that there was a way to understand me that was loving. So I thank everybody and I thank Bob Sutton, but I thank everybody who went through the whole process with me for bringing me to a place where I could actually understand the journey as something that was not about proving anything, but it was about becoming someone and becoming something I needed to be. And not proving anything to anybody but myself. So I wonder about your journey. Wherever you are. Are you being kind enough to yourself? I know it sounds like kind of a crazy question. I never asked myself that question my whole life. Are you being kind to yourself, Susie? But. And without Jack. Jack was super kind to me. And so maybe when he left, I had no one who was being kind in those details. But I have to fill that role for him now. So I learned that. That's the first thing I learned. And I want you. It makes me so tender towards you. If you're still here listening, which I hope you are, about whether or not you're showing kindness to yourself, I highly recommend it because it changed my whole frame of mind about my thesis. Okay, second, big learning. And it's not so much of a learning as it is a confirming. And that is that there are no shortcuts in life. No shortcuts. When I started doing my PhD thesis, I was told by my thesis advisors that I had to read all the literature. All the literature, all, every single freaking thing that had ever been written about values expression. This is my field. What your values are, how you express them. And guess what? This is not a small body of work. I mean, people have been writing about values for a very long time. I started by reading about what they wrote in 1904. And I read every single academic paper from all around the world that's ever been written about values expression. So I thought, I don't need to do that. I know everything. I've read all the important papers. I don't need to read every single thing ever written. But of course, your PhD has to have a literature review of everything that's ever written. And so I telling my thesis advisors I'm going to get some help from a postdoc who's at a university in California. I'm going to ask somebody to help me. I'm not a PhD. I'm not an academic. I need some help. And they said, we understand. And so I hired this guy to help me. And he was tremendously helpful. Except that at the end of the day, to really write the thesis, he could only help me so much. And I did have to read every last paper. Academic paper. I read so many academic papers from so long ago, so many in such excruciating detail that if I wanted to kill someone, this would be my choice of weapon. I would make them read some of these papers I read. They're so boring. Okay, some of them were great, but it was true. Look, the only way out is through. I had to do it because guess what happened when I got through reading all the academic literature and I thought to myself, how in the world did I ever think I could write this thesis without doing this reading myself? How did I ever think I could teach this stuff without reading all this academic literature myself? And once again, it confirmed for me that the hard stuff is the good stuff. It's hard for a reason, because it's worth it, right? And I actually. I want to relate this actually to parenting. Because, you know, the reason the first time I learned this was when I had kids. It's so hard to raise children, for God's sake. All right? I raised four kids. They're in their 30s now. Thank God. It all came out okay. It was so hard. And we had a wonderful family. But I don't know. Like, I bailed my daughter out of jail, okay? She was a big animal rights activist. She still is. And one day, it was a beautiful Sunday, Sunday afternoon, I'll never forget it, in New York City. And my cell phone rang and there was a woman on the other line. She said, this is New York City Police Department. And I remember another one of my yelling at me to do something. I said, excuse me, the New York police are calling me. And they said, we've got your daughter. She's been arrested in a protest at some. At a fur store, and we need. Jack and I needed to go bail her out. We got her with her fingers, purple from her fingerprinting. She had a mug shot. She was 14 years old. I remember thinking, why does it have to be so freaking hard? Why does everything with kids have to be so hard? Why did I. I mean, I could. I could. I could have a 17,000 hour podcast about the hard things about raising children. And not just because I worked. Because ra kids is hard no matter what. If you. I know there's a lot of moms who listen to this podcast and dads, apparently, who listen to this podcast. I. I feel you. You think, what's the point? Why does it have to be so hard? I am here to tell you, it has to be hard because the hard stuff is the good stuff. That. That young woman who we bailed out with, her mug shot, defiant. I'll never forget the look on her face. She was so proud. She. We were like, why'd you do this, Eve? Why'd you do this? And she was basically. She didn't say it, but she was basically thinking, you know, all right, she was proud of it. I'm proud of her. To this Day. You know what? She's a spectacular young woman. All the hard parts ended up being worth it. All of them did. And that's just true about with everything in life. When your relationship is hard and you fight for it, it's worth it. When something at work is too hard and you think you can't do it, but you put in the work and you think, this sucks. It's hard. It's worth it. I don't know. Call me a Pollyanna about this stuff, but the hard stuff, the rough stuff, is the good stuff. And I learned that again with my thesis. And I. One day, One day something's going to be easy for me, and I'm going to, like, not be able to understand it. And sometimes some things are just wonderful and easy and sweet and delicious and you think. And actually, I'm always a little bit surprised by it. But my thesis, once again, I thought I could do a little shortcut on one part of it, and, man, I got kicked in the butt with that. And I wonder what's going on in your life right now. I wonder what's going on in your life right now. That feels very hard and you resent it. Can I just wrap my arms around you and with love, say, all the good stuff is hard stuff. I just had a friend who got a terrible diagnosis. He has a chronic condition, which no one would want. And when I was talking to him, one of the things I hate is when somebody gives you bad news and then you put them in the position of comforting you. Like, you tell them bad news and then you feel sad and they've got to comfort you. I didn't want to do that to him because when Jack died, people would cry and I'd be kind of myself, like, telling them everything was going to be okay. And I was like, wait, wait, wait. Who's the sad person here? So I shifted the conversation to talk to him about the advances in the. This disease's control. And I know they're making advances all the time, but also I just said to him, I just want you to know I'm going to be your friend forever and ever through the thick and the thin. And there's going to be some hard stuff, and there's no way around. We got to face in this together, this together. I'm ready to face into it with you. And I think that this is the same message I'm giving you now. Life is hard. It's going to be hard. We're going to get news that we don't like. We're going to get fired. We're going to have kids who get arrested. We're going to have to do work that we don't want to do. But that's life. That's the reconfirming learning that I got from my. On the way to my PhD. When I walked across the stage and got my PhD, there was actually this moment that I thought about as I was walking across the stage. And it was during the process I was complaining. I did quite a bit of complaining during my PhD process. And I was complaining to my amazing thesis advisor, Graham Abbey, who's a great scholar. And I was telling him my brain was breaking, it was too hard, I'd hit the wall. It was the bridge too far. It just couldn't be done. And I once again said to him, this is so very hard. And he said, did you think it was going to be easy, Susie? All right, that was my second learning. Let's move on to the third one. This third one is somewhat tangential to the PhD thesis, but wouldn't have happened otherwise. And here's the big takeaway. It's about place. It's about how places tell us so much about ourselves, where we live or where we want to live. It's such data about who we are and our values. And this is why in the values bridge, which is the test I created to tell you what your values are, why place is one of the values. And here's when this came to me. When I went to get my PhD, we stopped in Paris for two days. All right, so it is technically actually part of the PhD journey. I brought my family to Paris. And when I got there, the first thing I thought was, exactly what you think when you go to Paris, or anyone goes to Paris, which is, I have to live here. The light is beautiful, the food is beautiful, the people are beautiful. Why doesn't everybody live in Paris? And I. There was a moment where I went to this little bar. I was wandering around Paris by myself, shopping, and I called my daughter. I said, hey, meet me down at this little bar on Ile de Cite. Let's have some oysters and let's have some champagne. Let's celebrate my PhD. This is the night before we went to go to England to get it, and we met down there. And she said, when are we moving to Paris? And I was about to say, let's just move. This is just too unreal. This is the magical city. And then I thought, never, never. Because place is a value, and I'm a New Yorker, and New York attracts A certain belief system. And my belief system is I want to be where all the excitement is. That's not for everybody. But my question for you, and I just bring this up because I was reminded of this on the actual technical journey to get my PhD, which is your place, the place you have to live or want to live or feel most at home is a magnificent piece of data about what really matters to you. Maybe you have to be in Milwaukee because your family's there. Okay, That's a value. Your family is a value. All I know is that when I was in Paris, I wanted to live there. And then I knew I could never live there because this piece of data about place is so important. And I was reminded about it on the way to get my PhD. Here's my fourth learning. I wonder if you can relate to it. And this is it. It was the biggest surprise of the whole journey, which is, I am done thinking and talking about my PhD. I've been talking about it for years, and I want to stop. I want to stop. I mean, I think when I finally got it and everybody was celebrating about it, I was like, okay, can we just stop talking about it? And I did it. I did. Now what I understand. It was a brave thing. I'm so proud. I'm smarter, I'm a better teacher. I have more of a heart for people who are on their journey than I did before, which is a part of my work. But I'm ready to stop talking about it. I think some of my podcast listeners might be very relieved to know that I'm going to stop talking about it. And for those of you who have written in and they exist. I'm not making this up. People have written asking to read my PhD thesis. We are waiting for it to be entered officially into the literature, and then we're going to post it on my website. For those of you who do want to read it, thank you very much. But I think there comes a time where a chapter ends. A chapter ends, and we need to honor that. And a new chapter needs to begin. And that's happened to me. My peach chapter's over. I did it. It's part of me now, and I'm ready to say goodbye to that chapter. Don't be scared to do that for yourself. You are full of beginnings, but you're full of endings, too. And sometimes it's time to say, that chapter of my life is over. Are you there? Are you at a moment where a job needs to end or a vision of yourself needs to conclude or a Relationship needs to change all those things because we are not who we are going to be. We are becoming, becoming. And I have gone through this process of getting the PhD. I'm ready to become something else now. I don't know what my next brave thing is. I'm thinking possibly about going on a date. I don't know. Maybe that would be a new chapter for me. I don't know. But maybe. But I'm ready to. I'm ready to turn the page. I want to. Are you ready to turn the page? That's what I ask you. But the learning I have, the fourth learning was that everything comes to an end and new beginnings are there waiting for us if we will step into them. And so I'm done. I am Dr. Susie Welch. There. I just said it is done with talking about and becoming a PhD and now it's ready to. I am ready to go on and write the next part of my story. I want you to do that too. Becoming youg is there for you for that. I mean, Becoming youg says it's better to be the author of your life than the editor. It's better to be the author of your life than the editor. There are so many authors of our life if we let them. Our parents, our spouses, our friends, our sisters and brothers, the voices in our head, the culture that we live in. They're all telling us the story of us and we edit it. That's what we do most of our life. But Becoming you says put the pen in your hand and be the author of your own life. That's what I want to encourage you to do. That's what this whole process is about. And I put the pen in my hand. I wrote that chapter. Now I'm moving on. And maybe it's time for you to do that too. Stick with us on Becoming youg. Cause that's what we talk about every week. I can't wait for you to come back next week, see what we're talking about and stay on this journey with us. I'm so glad you're here. I do love you so much. Reach out to me at hello at Susie Welch if you'd like to share an idea for a podcast or tell us what's on your mind. I look forward to being in life with you. Thanks for being here. See you soon.