Podcast Episode Summary

Becoming You with Suzy Welch

Episode Title: So Maybe Family Isn't Your #1 Value. Let's Talk About Why.
Guest: Vienna Pharaon, Family Therapist
Date: December 2, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Suzy Welch explores the complex theme of family as a personal value, prompted by surprising data from her research and a recent Wall Street Journal op-ed. Joined by acclaimed therapist Vienna Pharaon, they dig into why fewer Americans prioritize family as their top value, how generational dynamics fuel this change, and most importantly, how unhealed family wounds underlie these shifting attitudes. The conversation is both candid and compassionate, blending research, personal experience, and practical frameworks for understanding and healing family dynamics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Tone: "They F You Up, Your Mum and Dad"

• [00:05] Suzy introduces the famous Philip Larkin poem to illustrate that even well-intentioned families inevitably create wounds. She notes, “Sometimes the parents with the best intentions leave these wounds that we perpetuate forward.”
• Vienna adds a quote from Ram Dass: “If you think you’re enlightened, go spend a week with your family.” [01:27]

2. Vienna Pharaon’s Background & Motivation

• Vienna shares her personal history:
  • Became a therapist partly to resolve her own family challenges (“My parents went through a nine-year divorce... I was the observer, the viewer, the witnesser of all the things, the victim. Ah, it was a lot.” [02:51])
  • Her survival strategy: excelling outwardly while masking inner turmoil.
  • This experience sparked her interest in why some relationships work and others do not.

3. Are Truly Functional Families Real?

• Suzy references a New Yorker cartoon of an empty “Functional Families” convention [04:09], probing whether functional families exist at all.
• Vienna believes some families achieve functional relationships, but it takes adults willing to look at themselves and take responsibility, ownership, and accountability [04:39]. True connection comes not from perfection, but reflection and repair.

4. Data: Family as a Value Is on the Decline

• Suzy shares findings from her "Values Bridge" dataset (100,000 data points):
  • Only 11% of Americans rank family as their #1 value [06:54].
  • Only 48% have family in their top five core values [08:22].
  • Eudaimonia (personal flourishing/self-care) has surged; 62% now rank it in their top five [07:54].

Generational Changes

• Vienna is most surprised by the consistency across generations.
• She observes, “What feels good? Is it good for me? Does it align with me to go and spend time with people who trigger me…?” [07:19]
• Suzy observes, “You had those questions, but you went and saw your family anyway” in previous generations. Now, personal well-being weighs more heavily.

5. Chain Reaction & Chosen Family

• Vienna notes that when children deprioritize family, parents sometimes mirror that shift as a defense: “Why would I prioritize them?” [08:58]
• Suzy sees this chain reaction in friends: parents whose kids choose "chosen family" at holidays end up deprioritizing family themselves, ex. taking a safari instead of gathering [10:18].
• Vienna highlights the disappointment parents feel when the “fantasy” of a close adult relationship with children bucks reality [11:40].

6. The Challenge of Repairing Relationships

• Stories of adult children choosing estrangement—sometimes without explanation—leave parents heartbroken and powerless [12:04].
• Core problem: most people lack the tools to repair broken family relationships.
  • Vienna: “We don’t know how to repair relationships… We have to be able to move from self-protection into relational protection… That’s what I see as a huge divide.” [13:47]

7. Social Trends & Emotional Maturity

• There’s now broad support (“peer approval”) for drawing boundaries or even choosing estrangement from family, but “what is atrophied… is emotional maturity.” [15:05]
• Vienna: “When that [emotional maturity] is not there, it’s so hard to mend or bridge relationships. It’s nearly impossible.” [15:05]

8. Societal Pressure & Holiday Dynamics

• Despite wounds, many people attend family gatherings out of shame or social expectation rather than genuine desire (“There is this mass migration on the holidays where people go because they cannot bear to say they're not going.” [16:47])
• Suzy shares a personal anecdote of enduring family criticism for the sake of appearance [16:47].

9. The Five Origin Wounds Framework

Vienna introduces her therapeutic model—The Five Origin Wounds—as a tool for understanding why family relationships become so fraught:

1. Worthiness – “Do I feel important, valued in this space… not because I am performing… but just for being?” [21:09]
2. Belonging – “A child will feel like they have to trade authenticity for attachment… Belonging is I get to be me here.” [22:42]
3. Prioritization – “Am I important to the most important people in my life, or are my parents prioritizing others?” [23:31]
4. Trust – “Did you grow up with family secrets, deceit, betrayal… chronic things that leave you feeling like you can’t trust your caregivers?” [24:05]
5. Safety – “My safety and well-being is not protected, acknowledged, respected in this space.” [24:41]

• Vienna clarifies: these arise from chronic, repeated experiences—not one-off incidents.

10. Healing, Acceptance, and Grief

• Healing is possible, even without the person who caused the wound (“We don’t actually need the person who put the wound there... but the charge around it lessens.” [25:36])
• Acceptance often involves grieving “what the relationship might be” rather than what it is [27:09].
• Suzy shares her experience of grieving more for the relationship she never had with her father than for the man himself when he died [28:10].

11. Tools for Listeners

• Both recommend taking their respective online quizzes:
  • Origin Wound Quiz (Vienna)
  • Values Bridge (Suzy)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Philip Larkin’s poem: “They F you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do…” [00:05] (Suzy)
• Ram Dass quip: “If you think you’re enlightened, go spend a week with your family.” [01:27] (Vienna)
• “I’m more surprised that you find it [only 11% having family as #1 value] across generations.” [06:56] (Vienna)
• “What feels good? Is it good for me? Does it align with me to go and spend time with people who activate me, who trigger me, who don’t respect my boundaries?” [07:19] (Vienna)
• “We don’t know how to repair relationships and we don’t know how to move through hard things that have festered over the decades.” [12:51] (Vienna)
• “We lack emotional maturity. And when that is not there, it’s so hard to mend or bridge relationships.” [15:05] (Vienna)
• “Let’s face it—family is complicated. Family makes you feel more bad than good. And it’s because… we don’t have the tools without good help to repair the wounds.” [17:52] (Suzy)
• “Our nervous system… is constantly scanning for whether or not things are safe, dangerous, or life threatening… and I know what that look means.” [18:34] (Vienna)
• “We don’t actually need the person who put the wound there in the first place to be part of the healing process. The charge around it lessens.” [25:36] (Vienna)
• “You can get to a place where you understand the origin of the wounds and you can make an accommodation... you can't re-injure me.” [26:49] (Suzy)
• “It requires grief... to grieve both some of the things we've lost along the way and then also the fantasy of what the relationship might be.” [27:09] (Vienna)
• “I’m crying about the relationship I never had with him.” [28:10] (Suzy)

Important Timestamps

• 00:05 – Suzy introduces the episode and Larkin poem
• 01:27 – Vienna shares Ram Dass quote
• 02:27 – Vienna’s background and childhood divorce
• 06:54 – Only 11% place family as #1 value
• 07:54 – Eudaimonia/self-care data (“Top five for 62% of respondents”)
• 10:18 – “Chain reaction” in family prioritization
• 12:04 – Adult children choosing estrangement and its impact
• 13:55 – “Bridge” as a metaphor for relational work
• 15:05 – Discussion of the importance of emotional maturity
• 16:47 – Holiday gatherings, shame, and Suzy’s family anecdote
• 20:56 – Introduction of the Five Origin Wounds
• 25:36 – Healing can happen without the person who caused the wound
• 27:09 – Acceptance involves grieving the idealized relationship
• 28:10 – Suzy’s personal story of grief with her father’s passing
• 29:59 – Vienna’s resources and next steps for listeners

Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, candid, and compassionate, with both host and guest willing to share vulnerable stories. There is abundant humor (even regarding difficult family dynamics), and plenty of practical wisdom. The tone is both accessible and deeply reflective, with a focus on empowerment and acceptance.

Resources & Further Exploration

• Origin Wound Quiz: Vienna Pharaon’s free online quiz to identify your primary origin wound.
• Values Bridge: Suzy Welch’s tool for uncovering your core values.
• Vienna Pharaon on Instagram: @mindfulmft
• Further reading: Vienna's book The Origins of You: How Breaking Family Patterns Can Liberate the Way We Live and Love.

Takeaways

• Most Americans do not list family as their top value, a trend consistent across generations.
• The shift stems partly from the rise of self-care and eudaimonia, but more deeply from unhealed family wounds and a generational lack of repair skills.
• Healing is possible and does not require the participation of the person who hurt you; grief and acceptance play central roles.
• Tools like the Five Origin Wounds framework and values assessments can help listeners reflect and grow.
• Ultimately, peace with your family story is possible—even if family never becomes your #1 value.