← Becoming You with Suzy Welch
Becoming You with Suzy Welch
Sometimes Getting Unstuck Takes Getting Real First: A Mailbag Episode
00:23:50
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- [00:05]
Susie Web Welch
Hey.
- [00:05]
Listener 1
Hi.
- [00:06]
Susie Web Welch
Whoa. Okay. What if you feel like you're a stuck stay at home mom? What if you've got a big dilemma that is forcing you to face into what is right or wrong? What if you're like over 55 and what in the world are my pet peeves in the office? These are all questions that we are going to be taking a look at with no holds barred as usual on this episode of Becoming youg. Hi, I'm Susie Web Welch, your host and we've got a solo episode of Becoming youg this week after a series of wonderful, wonderful guests. I'm alone in the POD studio today, except for with my wonderful producers. Hello, Elisa and Mikey. Becoming you is the podcast where each week we endeavor to help you figure out, like, what you should do with your life. Just that little question. It's based on a methodology that I created and I teach at NYU Stern School of Business. And it you excavate three data sets, your values, your aptitudes, and your interests. If you're first time listener, we're so happy you're here. And if you're coming back for more. Hi. Hi. I love you so much. I'm so happy that you're here. So a lot of times we come at the question of what you should do with your life. You know, we talk about careers, we talk about values, we talk about all the different things we do in the becoming you pod. But this week we're going to take your questions and we're going to get right at what's on your mind as you journey towards this, your purpose, this area of transcendence, as we call it, where you're feeling exquisitely alive. This is a long journey. It's a hard journey. If you're looking for hacks, you know, I don't, I don't. There are none. And so, but you can get there. You can live your purpose. It's really worth. It's worth every step of the way there. So let's get at it. We have some really great questions where people are really probing the hard stuff. And even though in one of the questions I maybe sound a little bit mean, I'm doing it because I, I love you so much and I'm so glad that you're part of the becoming you community. Let's get going.
- [02:07]
Listener 2
Hi, Susie. I think your videos are amazing. What would your advice be for a stuck stay at home mom? I homeschool and love my children, but I also feel like I've lost myself.
- [02:17]
Susie Web Welch
When I see something like this. I. My Heart wells up with loving and understanding. I have four children and. And there's nothing that, that makes you closer to your feels and all the feels than kids. So I want to just say one thing about this question before I launch into my answer, which is that I focus on two kind of set two words in this question. And the first word is stuck. Okay. She didn't say, what would be your advice for a stay at home mom? Okay. She said, what would your advice be for a stuck stay at home mom? And then she went on to say, I feel like I've lost myself. All right? And then she said, I feel like I've lost myself. I. I've heard this phrase so many times. I one time remember doing becoming you immersive or three day intensives. And one of the women who was there was a mother and we were asking some basic questions about our feelings and our values and she was kind of falling apart at the seams and she said, I don't. I actually don't even know who I am. I've lost myself. So this sentiment, it happens. And here's the thing, it happens even though we just love our children so much. And that's the trouble is we feel like when we have these emotions of being stuck and we have these emotions of feeling lost, that in some ways is a testimony or is a commentary on how we feel about our kids. But the great, vast, painful, complicated irony of life is that we can love our children with every single cell in our body. You know, just desperately ardently, you know, almost like ferally. Okay, like you would just kill for your kids. This kind of feeling, like I'd rip off the head of someone got near my kids. You can have all those feelings and you can still have the feeling that they're driving you crazy, sapping the life out of you and making you incredibly bored. And this is a conversation that women just don't have with each other enough, and we don't have it with our partners either, is to say, look, I. This is no. With no diminishment for my love and what I would do for my kids and how much I adore them and how fun they are and all these other good things. They also create completely opposite feelings in me of just feeling like I'm a prisoner and I've given up everything and everyone I am and everything about me that happens at the exact same time. And since the beginning of time that women have had children, I am 100% sure it's been happening. I think that there were medieval mothers who had their babies and had these exact feelings. And women just find a lot of trouble admitting it out loud and admitting it to themselves. And the reason why this happens is because of this fact of biology. All right? And here's the fact that you have your children and you raise your children in a period from when you're kind of roughly early 20s to mid-40s. And that's the time your kids need you, mind, body and soul. They want your availability, they want you staring at them at every minute. They want you there to answer every single question. They really kind of need you. And they say they want you in that, this very intense 20 year period or so. And that is the time for women that if they're working their work wants and needs them, mind, body and soul. If you're at a company, you're in your, you know, kind of primish years, you're, you're just, you've got tons of stamina, your mind is exploding, you've got a lot of capacity and your company wants you. And even if you're not technically working in a company, your 20s to your 40s are a time for any human being, women and men, where you're kind of in these incredible years where you've got your wits about you. You're not sort of in that, in that period where you're sort of coming up and along and you can unfurl. All right? And so even if you say, I'm not going to work out of the house, I'm going to make children my primary role, you still have so much capacity and, you know, you could use for others, be it a hobby, be it a volunteering thing, be it travel, be it other relationships. So this is just a fact of biology. And it strikes every single woman. And it is striking. This person who wrote us saying, you know, she's stuck and she feels lost, she obviously loves her children. And so we've got this kind of perfect storm of a dynamic that's as old as motherhood. Loving your children and understanding that they stop you from doing stuff that you can and want to do and feeling like because of that, you lose a sense of who you really are. So I'm going to say, first of all, I feel for you and so does every other mom. But your question is real, like, what would be my advice? And so here is my advice. My advice is something I myself did not do until too late when I was having my kids. I did not know the names of my values and I did not articulate where the conflicts were and how bad they were. I just felt it in my chest. I had very high achievement and very high work centrism and my family centrism was relatively low. And that's not mean I didn't love my children, just meant I didn't want to organize my life around my children. And yet societal pressures, cultural pressures, and, and my absolute love for them made me understand I needed to be with them more than if I had my complete druthers and I was an assh, I would have spent. And so that was a war in my chest, in my heart, in my soul, and I had no words for it. I just kind of, I blamed people. I, I felt I was alone in it. Imagine if I had been able to say as, as we can now look, I have very high achievement, I have very high work centrism, or I have very high beholderism, very high belonging, and I also have high family centrism. These two things are in battle with each other every day. Won't you help me wage that battle in a way that there's as many people winning as possible? I mean, we can actually say that to our families. I eventually came to a place where I actually said it to my kids. And the way I said it was this. I mean, I didn't have this language then. I said to my kids, look, I'm going to spend every day of my life helping you discover who you are and live into who you are. I'm going to do that as your mom. Won't you do the same for me? And really, when I look back at it, I was asking them to help me balance my work and my life. And that, you know, when you get right down to it, that's what the language of values I was driving towards, what we ended up doing with becoming you, which was just creating a way to talk about this. After you are able to articulate it and talk about it, you really do have a choice. And the choice is whether or not you're going to try to negotiate that balance on a day to day basis. Okay? And it's really kind of a matter of like moving your schedule around, moving your vacations around assiduously, working to put time aside for your hobbies or your other avocations and saying, okay, look, I'm going to take one day a month and do X, Y and Z and really sort of fighting for that correct balance on a sort of day to day, week to week, month to month basis. And that you do that for sort of 20 years until the problem eventually does correct. Itself, because guess what? Your kids go away typically, or they just don't need you as much. That happens when they're around 18 years old. I mean, they do need you. They do continue to need you. That's the truth. But in different ways, there's not as 100% demand. So you can do that, you know, in the trenches, negotiation for years, and that's fine. That's many, many women do that. It's not easy. It takes its toll. I think it's easier when you've got language and you understand what's going on. The other thing you can do is you can really get very clear about what the rank order of your values are and you can make some very hard decisions where not everyone is happy. I did that because I had a much higher ranking on achievement and work centrism than I did on family centrism. And I went back to work and I worked full time and I missed some stuff. And not everyone was happy about that, and I wasn't happy either. But I couldn't do that daily negotiation. I just didn't have the stomach for it. And also, I had quite a differential. So that's my answer for you. I think you've made. If I had to guess what your values were, Dear listener, family centrism is very high because you've decided to homeschool your kids. Probably cosmos might be high for you. That's faith, value, maybe belovedness, love of your partner. But you've got to identify what the other values that you're not living are. Is it belonging? Is it a sense of community? Is it beholderism, the love of art or aesthetic? Is it radius changing the world in some way which one of your values are not being expressed, and then take the steps to express them more than you're currently expressing them right now. I think that's the first step on your journey. I wish you well. Please check in with us along the way. Okay, for the second question. I'm generally a nice person, but I'm going to say some very hard things in this answer. So. And I'm saying them from a place of love. I think this is kind of technically called tough love. So I'm about to have kind of a tough love answer for this person. And please, if you are this person and listening, please know I am coming at this in a way that I. I want you to succeed. And I think I'm trying to tell you something that you need to hear. Here we go.
- [11:11]
Listener 3
Hi, Susie. I've just stumbled across your podcast and I Absolutely love it. Listen to three episodes in a row this morning. I've got a big decision to make, but I'm worried about the consequences and would love your advice. Option 1. Started a new job two months ago and I'm hating it. My boss is terrible. I want to leave, but my friend and colleague who recommended me would be stuck with all the work if I leave. Especially now as our boss is traveling over the next six weeks. Contractually, I have to serve one month's notice if I resign. Why do I need to leave now? Option 2. The previous company that I consulted for wants me back to help on an immediate project. They adore me. I adore them. The obvious decision is to leave the shitty job and go to the good job question. How do I leave immediately without burning bridges? As you've said, the world has a small place and burning bridges isn't my style slash value system. But I also need to cut my losses as my boss is eroding my self esteem. She's extremely disrespectful, completely against my values. Plus, if I leave now, I could score a week's holiday with my friends, which I initially couldn't make because of the terrible job. What should I do?
- [12:19]
Susie Web Welch
This is not a values conversation, all right? This is not a values conversation. It's a virtues conversation. And I talk a lot about the difference between values and virtues. Values are choices about how we live work, who we marry, how we show up, what kind of friendships we have. Virtues are social constructs that we all generally agree are good. And these are things like fairness and courage and resilience and honesty. Generally, society, since the beginning of time, have agreed that virtues are something everybody should have more of. For instance, kindness is a virtue for a reason. If you don't think everybody should have more kindness, something's wrong with you and the society doesn't want you as a part of it. Okay? Values are totally different things. So this is. Unfortunately, it'd be easier if it was. It's not about values. It's about virtues. And I'm sorry, it's a. It's about right and wrong. You want to leave immediately, you've got an oh feeling in your stomach. And congratulations for that, because leaving immediately would be wrong. Here's why you want to leave immediately. You don't like your boss. She's making you lose your self esteem. But guess what? She's traveling for six weeks. Okay? Two other things are. Three other things are going on. Number one, if you leave immediately, you screw your friend. Okay? You dump work on that friend, that friend recommended you. Number two, you break a contract obligation. The contract application said I'm giving one month's notice. Okay? And number three, you're doing it because you want to score a vacation with friends. You're considering screwing over a friend and breaking a contract to go get some vacation. Now you may have Eudaimonia as your top value and that's maybe why you want to leave so badly. You love the idea of this vacation. That's self care. It's recreation and pleasure. Okay? And if you wanted to do this just on your values, you would say your Eudaimonia is your number one value. Go, go take that vacation. And maybe you have belonging as a low value. Friendship really doesn't matter to you. So yeah, go ahead. You're going to lose a friend over this, but go ahead. Belonging doesn't matter to you all that much anyway in terms of the self esteem. Your boss is eroding your self esteem. This you can control. First of all, she's on vacation. And number two, you know she's a jerk. Just put her in a box and forget about it. But I'm going to tell you, keep stay in that job, give your notice, apologize to your friend, stay for a month and forget the vacation. Because this is about your reputation for honesty, for fairness and for decency. And it would just. It's wrong to leave your friend in the lurch. She recommended you, she put her name on the line to get you the job, she did you a solid and now you're undermining her. Number two, if you break a contract, business is an island and you see everybody again. And breaking a contract is going to follow you like a stink. You cannot do that in business and you just shouldn't do it. A contract, you signed it, it's a contract. And go, I know you want the vacation, but this is a case where you're not going to be able to get what you want because you should do the right thing. And I think you should put your sort of values, I'm guessing of Eudaimonia aside and self determination. Maybe you have high agency. Put that aside. And this is the time to pay attention to the virtues and heed those. I hope you don't hate me right now. I actually in my newsletter this week, I actually talk about a time where somebody at a party said a really hard thing to me that I didn't want to hear. He pointed out that we didn't have any tests that proved that becoming you was scientifically validated. This was several years ago and I wanted to throw my drink in his face. I thought he was a pompous asshat. I hated him. And he was a brain surgeon. So he's talking to me about all his data driven reports that showed how great his results were. And he was like, really, I thought, really a jerk. But you know what? He. Maybe he was a jerk because he was kind of rude when he said it. He was right and he pushed me to do the right thing, which was to create the different kinds of efficacy tests that showed that becoming you is scientifically validated and effective. And now we have those tests and we're all better for it. So when somebody says something to you that gives you an oh feeling and you kind of hate them when they're saying it and you're just thinking about all the reasons why you should just jump and like, I just want to walk away from that eye. You have got to stare to it and think, are you just not being real and honest with yourself? When we don't want to hear something, you got to ask yourself, why don't I want to hear it? And so I'm telling you something you don't want to hear. I'm sure. Please don't hate me. Please keep on tuning in. But that's my real answer, and I want to sugarcoat it. This is not about values. It's about right and wrong. And I hope you do the right thing. We now move on to a fabulous question because I could go on about it for a long time. I'm not going to, actually, but here it is.
- [17:03]
Listener 1
Hi, Susie. Tragically, so many adults bounce through life like chaff in the wind until or if they can ever get anchored to their life and career pursuits. Let me pose a question to you. How do retirees who are post career utilize your content? It is quite the paradox. I find myself at 73 in post career, finally doing some of the most impactful and meaningful pursuits at this point in my life in mission areas. I hope you can speak to this. For an aging adult, most of our focus turns towards the spiritual. Human finiteness and frailties become more of a reality. And we know that the end is only the beginning. Thank you for your efforts.
- [17:45]
Susie Web Welch
All right. I love this question so much, I could cry. First of all, my friend, you call yourself 73, and then you say, for an aging adult, okay, look, I'm 66. We are not. We are newer every day, my friend. But look, this is a great question because there are at this moment 100 million Americans who are over 55. It's the largest demo in this country, people over 55. And just recently I saw some great research that showed that 50% of those people, 50 million people, say that they are seeking more purpose and meaning in their lives. And sometimes I think the actual best application of becoming you is for this demographic because you know yourself well enough that the values work is going to be really quite quick. You know your aptitudes, that's going to move along. You have the sort of wisdom of your years about your values and your aptitudes. And when we do the economically viable interests, a lot of times people who have reached 55, they can take out the economically viable part and they can just focus on their interests. I think we often in the three days get people who are 55 and older and they are some of my favorite students because they're just so engaged with the process, they think the time is nigh. Let me live. And I'll tell you something. I noticed after my last birthday that I started saying this phrase all the time. I started saying it so much that people have commented to me, I'm about to be making a decision. And I'd say I'm 66. The clock isn't ticking backwards. I've been saying this again and again, and it's true. I have a sense of urgency. I have, you know, I hope, 20 or 30 splendid years ahead of me. And I know my values and I know my aptitudes and I know my interests. I'm going to go live it to the hilt and there's no more time for Mamby Pam being around. And so my answer to you is, do the Becoming youg methodology with a group of your friends who are about your age and have a blast. Okay, let me know. Let me drop in and I will come and visit you on Zoom like I did with my friends in Montana who got in touch with me, the book group. I love doing that. I think that this is something you can do with a bunch of other people in your age group, people that you know and love, do the testing and figure it out. You're right that as you get older you start thinking, okay, it doesn't go on on forever. And that really puts the question of purpose front and center. So I'm glad you asked about it. I think that we call actually around the Becoming youg Labs headquarters here in New York, we call this demographic of people who use Becoming youg, we call them third halfers. And I think that they're the perfect group of people. Look, I Think every. It's perfect for everybody to do Becoming youg. But I love, love, love it when it happens. And if there were enough people interested in it, I would do one three day just for people in this demographic. And maybe that will happen someday. And if so, I hope you come. All right, we're gonna finish with one that's sort of funny. All right, let's get right down to it. Here it is. Hi, Susie. What are some of your pet peeves in the workplace? Well, how much time do we have to answer this one? I mean this. I could go on and on about my pet peeves. One of my pet peeves, actually, one of our wonderful team members does it every day. And that's cracking of the knuckles. Oh, my God. It makes me hit the. Hit the roof. There may actually even be the name of this. I can't stand it. I don't know why. I think it's bad for you. But I also think it's sort of bringing one of your personal habits into the workplace. And so I don't love that. I think, you know, I could get really serious about this. Like pet peeves. My biggest pet peeve is not giving a shit.
- [20:59]
Listener 1
Okay.
- [20:59]
Susie Web Welch
Like that I can't stand. If you're going to be doing the work, you should be caring about the work. We're a mission driven organization. I also, look, we do a lot of eating in this office. So I don't have any problems around eating. I don't like it when people take my gummy bears. They now I have them under lock and key. And so my pet peeves are really around, actually your attitudes about the work. And so they're not really pet peeves. But I guess cracking of the knuckles would be a big one. But I do have one that's serious, More serious. And I think it's a delicate thing around here. And one of my pet peeves is how during the day at Becoming youg Labs, and this happens a lot, a lot more than I'd like to, people get their heads in a place where they think that Pierre is their dog. And it's important to understand that Pierre is my dog. I can't be more clear about this. Pierre is Susie's dog. And when he goes around and he sits in your lap. Okay, go ahead. You can make those faces. Elisa and Mikey, you can. Okay. My producers are not. They're not amused by this. He sits in your lap. Do you think he really loves you? Do you? He doesn't. He loves me. He's just taking time. He's being nice to you. He's taking pity on you. And that's my biggest pet peeve. All right. That's becoming you this week. And you know what? I never say I should say it more because you know what? Every podcaster says it. If you like this episode or if you just are liking Becoming youg in general, do you. Can you believe how helpful it is to me if you leave a review or if you, you know, give us some stars and. Or you subscribe? I mean, this stuff is really helpful as we try to build the podcast. So please do that. I think the phrase people use, which is kind of cringe, is smash like button. Hey, smash that like button and do all those things. I'd appreciate it so much. Thanks. We'll be back next week with another full episode of Becoming youg Again. I'm so happy here. I'm Susie Welch. Have a great week. And this show is produced by the amazing and fabulous Mikey Robley, Eliza Zinn, Issa Lampson, and Hallie Reiner. And if you liked what you heard, and I'm on my knees praying that you did, follow me at Susie Welch across all my platforms, Everywhere, Instagram and LinkedIn and even TikTok. Although somehow TikTok doesn't seem to work for me. And don't forget to leave a rating and a review below because a lot of people have. And I love you, you people who have. It's not all my children because there's just too many of them. I will see you next time. And until then, keep becoming. Sam.