Twenty Hard Truths About Your Career… Or Maybe Not

Summary

Podcast Summary

Becoming You with Suzy Welch

Episode: Twenty Hard Truths About Your Career… Or Maybe Not
Date: November 4, 2025
Host: Suzy Welch (NYU Stern Professor, journalist, decision-making expert)
Guest: Dustin Liu

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Episode Overview

In this lively installment of the “Career Confidential” segment, Suzy Welch and co-host Dustin Liu riff on a viral internet format—stating and reacting to “hard truths”—but with a career-focused twist. Together, they debate and unpack twenty so-called “career truths,” mixing practical advice, hard-won experience, and personal anecdotes with characteristic wit and warmth. The aim isn’t to depress or discourage, but to challenge common assumptions and encourage authentic, successful approaches to career and life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. You will die and most people won’t care after a while

[02:34]

• Suzy is “50/50” on this: Dislikes nihilism, calling it “the scourge of humanity,” but likes how the idea gives “permission to take risks.”
  • Quote: “If you go to work with this attitude, nihilism, guess what? You are not going to succeed in any way. People hate this attitude. It's self-defeating.” — Suzy [03:06]
• Dustin: Disagrees; believes everyone matters, and each manager and employee shapes how we think about work.

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2. People use you until you’re no longer useful

[04:00]

• Suzy broadly disagrees: “This attitude…is a horrible way to look at the world.” It reflects “boss-hater” cynicism and breeds being treated like a “cog,” though she admits users and phonies exist (about 20%).
• Dustin: Notes it can be true when a company outgrows your skills, but in most situations that’s not the whole story.

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3. Most people secretly want you to fail

[05:53]

• Both: Totally disagree. Suzy asserts that people relate more and want to help when you fail, not revel in it.

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4. One day you’ll wish you started today

[06:38]

• Suzy: “80% agree.” Most people delay for too long due to risk aversion and fear, especially with hated jobs—typically leaving “about a year after they should have.”
• Dustin: Applies especially to those living in fear.

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5. Most people fake happiness while dying inside

[08:18]

• Suzy: “90% agree.” Views people as “open wounds…in the process of healing.” Cites her own experience with grief, and the general utility of recognizing everyone at work is working through something.
  • Quote: “Everybody is kind of just a wound that's healing...The people who are healthy are the ones who say I'm a wound that's healing.” — Suzy [08:26]
• Dustin: Notes the importance of facing truths, not conspiracy theories about our lives.

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6. No one is coming to save you

[10:26]

• Suzy: 100% disagrees. Faith aside, believes allyship at work is fundamental—“Your job is to create allies.” Shares personal stories about being saved by allies after significant mistakes.
  • Quote: “There is someone coming to save you if you do the work of building allies and being an ally yourself to other people.” — Suzy [12:54]

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7. You’ll be judged no matter what you do

[13:52]

• Both: 100% agree. Acknowledge that even those with the best intentions judge; it's instinctive but can be worked against.

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8. Your health is your greatest wealth

[14:56]

• Suzy: 100% agree, but “at work…it’s your emotional health” that matters most. Recalls Michael Eisner’s advice to only hire “emotionally healthy people” [16:21].
  • Quote: “You can fix almost anything in somebody…But emotional health, you have no levers.” — Suzy [16:21]
• Discusses appropriate levels of emotional sharing at work, generational shifts, and the manager’s role.

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9. Happiness is temporary. Discipline is permanent.

[19:55]

• Suzy: 100% agree. Critiques the “happiness industrial complex.” Advocates for “systems thinking” and living according to one's values as disciplines that underpin a meaningful, productive life.
  • Quote: “Happiness is some…byproduct of a meaningful, productive life. And the best we can go for is a meaningful, productive life.” — Suzy [20:09]
• Shares her “3Ds”: Default, Deliberation, Design—ways one can live, with “Design” requiring discipline.

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10. No one respects weakness, even if they sympathize

[22:15]

• Dustin: Disagrees; respects vulnerability.
• Suzy: Agrees, clarifying that “weakness” is lack of conviction or an inability to commit, not vulnerability: “I'd rather have someone take a stand and be wrong than not commit.”

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11. Complaining changes nothing

[23:34]

• Both: 100% agree—with the caveat that skepticism and voicing problems is useful only when paired with solutions.
  • Quote: “Don't complain without a solution…if you come to somebody with a complaint, come with the solution also.” — Suzy [24:42]

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12. Not everyone you love will love you back

[24:33]

• Suzy: “A million percent agree.” Shares a story (involving Bonnie Raitt's song “I Can’t Make You Love Me” [24:37]) about her first marriage.
• At work, emphasizes: “Don’t be loved. Be indispensable.”
  • Quote: “You cannot make people love you. But…people want to be loved at work. That’s 1000% the wrong mindset. You don't want to be loved at work—you want to be indispensable.” — Suzy [25:42]

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13. Money won’t solve all your problems, but it solves most

[27:27]

• Suzy: “50/50.” Money solves many real-life issues, but too much in a company causes bad decisions: “Young companies should act like they're out of money all the time.”

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14. You’re replaceable at your job

[28:10]

• Suzy: 100% agree—“even I'm replaceable and I run this place.”
• Warns that believing oneself “irreplaceable” leads to arrogance.

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15. Life is unfair. Get used to it.

[28:43]

• Suzy: 80/20 agree. Life is unfair, but adopting a “the world is unfair” attitude is toxic; people “smell it off you,” and it’s unpleasant.

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16. One day you’ll run out of days

[29:37]

• Both: True, but Suzy encourages living fully until that day—don’t let a sense of limited time paralyze you.

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17. Regret hurts more than failure

[30:05]

• Suzy: “50/50 agree.” Acknowledges both regret and failure are deeply painful. Describes her very public failure—being fired from Harvard Business Review and making national news.
  • Quote: “Failure is like…you get better at it with practice…Prince to pig. You're a prince, then you're a pig. Get over it.” — Suzy (channeling Jack Welch) [31:03]

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18. Nobody cares about your excuses

[32:33]

• Suzy: 100% agree. Everyone sees themselves as the hero in their story, but others often see things differently. “Self-awareness is the work of your life.”
  • Quote: “You have to understand every time you're telling yourself an excuse or somebody else an excuse, you're telling your version of the events and they're sitting there and going, they're going to. And they don't believe you, so don't bother.” — Suzy [33:52]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Nihilism is the scourge of humanity.” — Suzy [03:06]
• “Go ahead and take your stand. Eventually, we all die and no one's gonna give a damn.” — Suzy [03:41]
• "You want skeptics. You want challengers. You want people pushing back. But if somebody comes to you...no solutions, goodbye." — Suzy [24:49]
• “Be indispensable. It’s good to be loved and indispensable. That’s the greatest thing. But if you’ve got to pick between the two—be indispensable.” — Suzy [25:50]
• “Happiness is fleeting...Discipline is what you need to apply to get a meaningful, productive life, that’s permanent.” — Suzy [20:09]
• “Self-awareness is the work of your life…your excuses are just your excuses and they end where the other person's observation of you begins.” — Suzy [34:24]

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Timestamps to Key Segments

• [02:34] “You will die and most people won’t care after a while”
• [04:00] “People use you until you’re no longer useful”
• [05:53] “Most people secretly want you to fail”
• [06:38] “One day you’ll wish you started today”
• [08:18] “Most people fake happiness while dying inside”
• [10:26] “No one is coming to save you”
• [13:52] “You’ll be judged no matter what you do”
• [14:56] “Your health is your greatest wealth”
• [19:55] “Happiness is temporary. Discipline is permanent.”
• [22:15] “No one respects weakness, even if they sympathize”
• [23:34] “Complaining changes nothing”
• [24:33] “Not everyone you love will love you back”
• [27:27] “Money won’t solve all your problems, but it solves most”
• [28:10] “You’re replaceable at your job”
• [28:43] “Life is unfair. Get used to it.”
• [29:37] “One day you’ll run out of days”
• [30:05] “Regret hurts more than failure”
• [32:33] “Nobody cares about your excuses”

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Tone and Takeaways

In Suzy’s irreverent, heart-forward style—with Dustin’s thoughtful, sometimes more gentle counterpoints—the episode offers not just “hard truths,” but nuanced, actionable wisdom:

• Don’t let cynicism or nihilism take root.
• Build workplace allies—don’t expect to go it alone.
• Lead with emotional health and discipline; happiness is a byproduct, not a goal.
• Be indispensable, not just liked.
• Accept that failure, regret, and judgment are universal—but self-awareness and resilience will always serve you.
• Bring empathy and solutions to work; complaints or excuses alone are dead ends.

Listeners emerge with a sense of realism—but also hope, practical optimism, and the encouragement to be their authentic, resilient, most indispensable selves.

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For those who haven't listened:
This episode is a spirited, wise, and refreshingly human take on career “truths”—debunking, reframing, and honoring them with personal stories, warmth, and a challenge to live and work with more intentionality and heart. If your career or life needs a jolt of honest encouragement (with a side of laughs), this episode is for you.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everybody. It's. Hello, Dustin.

[B]

Hi, Susie.

[A]

It's Career Confidential. That's our. That's our pod within a pod in the becoming universe. And this is when Dustin and I. Dustin Liu, the famous Dustin Liu and I. It's true. Dustin, do you. Can you walk down the street without people stopping?

[B]

I absolutely can. I absolutely can. I have been stopped once because of this podcast. You haven't. On the subway one.

[A]

Oh, well, what happened?

[B]

One time she just stopped me and.

[A]

She said, and what'd you say?

[B]

Are you on the. Are you the Susie. Are you the Susie Welch Asian guy? No, I don't know if we can put that in the podcast.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Are you the Asian guy from Susie Welch's podcast? And I said, I think I'm the only one.

[A]

I know. I think you are.

[B]

I think I'm the only Asian guy on the Suzy Welch podcast.

[A]

Are you okay with that?

[B]

I'm absolutely okay with that, yeah.

[A]

All right. The darling and brilliant Asian guy from the Suzy Welsh. So today on the podcast, we are blatantly ripping off a very popular platform that's called so what's your take? That's on TikTok and Instagram where the very hilarious comedian Kareem Rama goes on the subway and he asks people, so what's your take? Where people say things like dogs are better than cats or whatever, and they state like a hard truth they believe in, and he says whether or not he agrees or disagrees. So I am always getting those kinds of like, these things are true lists coming across my feed. You are probably also.

[B]

We all are all the time.

[A]

And so I decided to take one for Career confidential and make it about careers. And Dustin, will you play this game with me?

[B]

I can't wait to give you some hard truths to react to.

[A]

I have a lot of reactions and I'm inviting you to have reactions because here's the truth. I'm about to drop a hard.

[B]

Ready?

[A]

Here's a hard. We go to work with assumptions about how the world works. We do. We are coming. Nobody's like, oh, I'm just so open minded. Anything is true. No. We enter the workplace with assumptions. And so I want to see where we come out on these assumptions and where you come out on these assumptions because they just affect your career. And I think that some of these hard truths, which I think plenty of people hold, the ones that we're about to go over, can screw you up so badly at work. So let's see how we both. And we both feel about them. And let's get going with it. We're going to be fast and furious. We're going to go through these quickly as we can so that we don't lose people and keep them as interested in our pod as possible so that there comes to be a day where you can't even go on the subway. You're so famous.

[B]

Let's get started.

[A]

I'm waiting for that day for. All right. Okay. All right.

[B]

Let's get started with hard truths.

[A]

All right, go ahead.

[B]

You will die and most people won't care after a while.

[A]

Say it again.

[B]

You will die and most people won't care after a while.

[A]

50. 50 on this one. Yeah. Okay, here's. I. I disagree. 50% and I wildly agree. 50%. I disagree because this is nihilism. And I think nihilism is the scourge of humanity. This idea that our lives were just dust in the wind and nothing matters about our lives. And if you go to work with this attitude, nihilism, guess what? You are not going to succeed in any way. People hate this attitude. It's self defeating. But the reason why I do agree with it is that it gives you permission to take risks. It gives you permission, like, okay, you know, you. You're gonna die one day. You might as well have lived. You might as well sort of go for it. And I often say, like, if you've not been fired somewhere in your career, you've never put yourself out there. You've never said, I care desperately about this thing we should do. X. You've never taken a stand. And so go ahead and take your stand. Eventually we all die and no one's gonna give a damn. Okay, so I'm 50. 50 on this one. I hate nihilism, but I also love having a sense that you cannot leave anything in the tank. I'm looking at your face and I know you disagree with me, right? You do. You think everybody matters, right?

[B]

I think everyone matters. And I think every manager and every employee that you meet changes the way that you think about work.

[A]

I want to say you're the least nihilistic person I know, which is why everybody loves you. Okay? And that. So you've made my case for me. Go ahead.

[B]

Another hard truth.

[A]

What's the next one?

[B]

People use you until you're no longer useful.

[A]

I generally disagree with this. Okay. Okay. Now this is in life. There are users and phonies. Yeah. And you want to stay away from them. But basically, as we're reaching our early 20s, we know the users and phonies and we get away from them. Okay, but this attitude that everybody wants to use you up and throw you out is a very. Is a very horrible way to look at the world. And if you go into work with this attitude, they just want to use me up. I'm a cog in their machine. That's basically the attitude of a boss hater, or people just hate the machine of work. And you know what? If you feel that way, they're just using you like a, like a, like a raw material. They're going to treat you like a raw material. Now, that having been said, there are some crummy companies with crappy cultures that do use people, get away from them. But in general, I don't know, I think that people don't want to use people up and throw them out. I think that companies that do that pay the price right away. Most companies want to reskill people and move them along. I'm sorry if I sound Pollyannish, but guess what? I'm old and I've been around and I've seen you don't want to use people up and throw them out. You want to train them and you want them to stay with you forever. So I hate this one, but I have a 20% bit of agreement with it, because in this world, very unfortunately, there are users, phonies, and takers. You just got to steer clear of them. Yeah.

[B]

And I want to say that I have a few friends who have been in situations where they no longer had the skill set that the company needed or the company outgrew what they needed to do and they didn't have the time and there were other jobs opportunities available. So it kind of is true in.

[A]

Certain circumstances, cannot be welfare. Okay. If somebody is no skills that you can use. You know, somebody's writing that, and maybe it's a big corporation and you don't feel sorry for them, but sometimes it's an entrepreneur. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, So I agree with that a little bit more than you do, I think. Okay, number three, most people secretly want you to fail.

[A]

Totally disagree.

[B]

Totally disagree.

[A]

Totally disagree.

[B]

Same.

[A]

Okay, I think maybe 10% people have schadenfreude and they want you to fail. 90% of the people when you fail like you better. Yeah, they like you better because you've become a human. Okay. Like, oh my God, that person learned an important lesson. They actually are a human. I think that this is just bs. People want to help people who fail. They have more, more heart for them. Now in a company, you don't want your people Failing left, right and center. But sometimes the best lessons are learned the hard way. And I hate this notion that people want you to fail. It's awful. I want you to succeed. You want me to succeed. But when you fail, I love you and I want you to get better, get yourself up. I want to help you up and move you along to a better place. So I think this one is just absolutely. Some of these truths are really quite true. Okay, go. What's the next one?

[B]

One day you'll wish you started today.

[A]

80% agree. 80% agree. Okay. We generally take too long to do things. We generally wait too long. We want more data. We're scared of risk. We're scared of failure. We really are. We live in fear of failure. And so usually when you've done something, you say, why did I take so long? Like, why did I. And look, this happens in personal life.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Why did I take so long to like leave this abusive person? Why did I take so long to tell that person I loved them? I mean, in our personal life, we generally. But at work, you generally, you also don't want to rush, rush into things without full data. Work is a, is a place where you've got to constantly be mitigating risk and understanding. Okay, like what happens if I move too quickly? Yeah, but you know, great companies get ahead moving very, very quickly. And the same is true in careers. Now let's just extrapolate this for people who are jobs they hate.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay. Most people leave jobs they hate about a year after they should have left them. And they then they say they were scared. They were scared of not getting another job. Those are completely legitimate fears, especially in today's job market. But if you're miserable, go. Yeah, go.

[B]

I completely agree. One day you'll wish you started. Today applies to people who have fear.

[A]

Yeah. Please don't feed the fears. That's my, that's, that's the sign I love. I mean, fear is a terrible thing. And it stops this anticipated regret, which is a highly documented, documented human dynamic where we. The fear of regret, the fear of regretting doing something wrong stops us from making really good decisions. And I teach that in my decision making class. But in general, move more quickly than you want to.

[B]

Most people fake happiness while dying inside.

[A]

90% agree.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes, I.

[B]

Do you think that many people are just walking around.

[A]

Yes. In pain. I think we're all just open wounds. We are. And the difference is how much we admit it out loud. So the difference is probably everybody is kind of just a wound that's healing. Okay. Everybody's a wound that's healing.

[B]

We all have wounds.

[A]

So we do. And. But the people who are healthy are the ones who say I'm a wound that's in the process of healing. I'm on that journey. And. But I will say there's genuinely happy people in this world. I've known them. They're kind of like, to me, like, wonders of nature. Like, you're just happy.

[B]

Do you feel like you're a happy person, Susie?

[A]

I mean, right now in my life, I have existential grief over my husband's loss. So I'd have to say I'm generally very happy. Like, I wake up in a good mood. I'm greeted by, like, sir licking my eyeball. What he does every morning, how he manages to aim perfectly on your eyeball, on the big German shepherd, and get me right on the eye every morning. This is one of the great questions of humanity. It's crazy. I mean, I had my hands over my eyes. He somehow. So I'm generally happy. But I have to say I've not yet figured out a way to deal with the existential grief of widowhood. I have not. I'm working on it. I went to hear an author who has written about this the other night, and it made me sadder. So I'm still in it, but at least I admit it.

[B]

And you verbalize sort of those feelings that are internal. You're not faking anything.

[A]

I do. But I do think that everybody, and oftentimes very happy people in my life experience, I've discovered, are dealing with some brokenness inside. And I think this is a really. If you're a manager, to understand each one of your people is coming to you with some kind of brokenness. It allows you to have some kind of compassion. The difference around this is how much people admit it and how much they're actively dealing with it. But I think it's good at work when you hate somebody across the table. You hate them, they're an ass. You just can't get. Get along with them. Is to try to get yourself into a place where you understand they are working something out that's quite painful to them and try to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's very hard.

[B]

I mean, we are our own best conspiracy theorists. We're our own best conspiracy theorists. We can make up stories about our lives. And I think so much of this is actually just facing the truth.

[A]

Yeah. Yep. Okay, next.

[B]

No one is coming to save you.

[A]

Okay. This is a complicated one for me, because I 100% disagree. Really? 100% disagree. Okay. Now, one of the reasons for that, as I've publicly said many times, is I'm a very faithful person. And so, you know, as part of one of the tenets of my Christian faith, is there is somebody coming to save me. Okay. But here's another reason why I think just putting my faith aside, which is hard for me to do, but putting it aside at work, your job is to create allies.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I mean, there's fantastic research that shows that one thing that's going wrong with Gen Z at work right now is they don't know the art of creating allies. Because when they were coming along, they weren't in the office and they didn't understand that part of what's good about being in the office is you kind.

[B]

Of like, realize relationships. You know, who pulls that lever.

[A]

I like this Taylor Swift song. Right. You know, and it's not just. Just manipulate. You just make friends with people. And then when you make a mistake at work, your allies come to your rescue. Okay. And so I always tell the story when I'm teaching, hiring at. At my MBAs at Stern, I tell a story about a time that I handled something really wrong with an employee. We shall call John and I. I was the boss. He was terrible. And I pulled him aside one night, I said, you're. You're terrible. I'm firing you. And he stared at me and he's shocked. And he was like, that's it. I'm fired. And I was like, yes. And I was a young manager. And then he went home and I went home and I was like, really exultant, like, I'm a boss, babe. And I was like, feeding my kids in those days. I used to feed them things like vegan hot dogs with carrots for dinner. I mean, I was really, really winner that way. And the phone rang and it was the head of hr. And she said, I'm sitting here. I want to fire you so badly. Everything you handled with this guy was wrong. No warning, no documentation. I did it alone. I mean, every. You go down the list of what things I did wrong. Yeah, but my. The big boss came to my rescue, okay? And she said, the only reason I'm not firing is I'm sitting here with so and so. And he has pointed out to me your track record of success. So we're going to give you another at bat, Susie. But you don't have any more at bats after this one. You used a lot of. I had spent years because Dint of my personality. Just making friends and allies. And that's not the only time in my life. There was another time I almost got fired when I was at Bain and Company, and I stupidly mimicked a client on the plane ride home. He spoke to his plants, and I mimicked him. We didn't do that at Bain. We treated our clients with utmost respect. I knew that was one of the values, and I violated a value. And when I went to work the next day, my boss was waiting for me, and his boss was there also. And his boss pulled me in and said, you mimicked. We should fire you, but you've been saved by that person over there. Okay? So I think there is someone coming to save you if you do the work of building allies and being an ally yourself to other people. Because we all screw up, so you better have some allies. Okay? So I. I 100 disagree with this.

[B]

We talk a lot about goodwill, you and I.

[A]

Right.

[B]

About how we build goodwill. And I think so much of that is just being authentic, building relationships and recognizing that in a workplace, everyone plays a role.

[A]

Yes. But also, you know, the other way you build goodwill. Great performance. I mean, I had, like. I had, like, such a. Well, yes, Of. Of goodwill because I deliver.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I was a workhorse, and I had great results. And in this. In the second case, the client loved me. If he had found out I've been making fun of him, talking to his plants, maybe not, but he loved me, and that saved me. So you can't expect allies if you do not do the work. Okay. Next.

[B]

You'll be judged no matter what you do. 100%, right? 100%. You'll be judged no matter what you do.

[A]

Yes. Everybody judges. Even though me, the queen of not judging. Okay. And the whole values bridge was created to create a language where we don't judge each other's values. We say, I have high work centrism, you have low work centrism. I have high agency. You have low agency, whatever, that I created a language around values so people would judge each other less. Even I go judge people. I try not to. Yeah. I mean, I probably, you know, I. I actively try not to. Yeah. All right. But even I do it. And if I'm doing it and it is hard, and it's just like, one of the reasons why people get mad at religion is that religion says, we do not judge. You should only judge yourself. And then people who were in religious authorities judge everybody. Okay. And so it is. It is a. It's just. It's a vast boiling vat of hypocrisy when it comes to judgment. Okay, who am I to judge? Except for right now? So it's true. You will be judged. But the. The asterisks I would put here is. But, you know, you could stop trying to judge while you're at it.

[B]

Your health is your greatest wealth, 100%.

[A]

Obviously, this is. I mean, your health. You don't have your health and everything sucks. But I want to say that. Actually, I want to make a little caveat to this, which is at work, since we're doing the career version of. So what's your take on Career Confidential here? It's a very specific kind of health. It's a very specific kind of health.

[B]

What kind of health?

[A]

It's your emotional health. Companies want people who are emotionally sound. Okay, so emotional soundness is positive energy. It's resilience. It's accountability. It's integrity. They want emotional soundness. And this brings me back to an incredible story I'm about to name drop. I wish we had. If we had a sound effect machine, we could use it. So back when I was the editor of the Harvard Business Review, where I made all those mistakes, but had allies who saved me, I used to interview CEOs. That was one of the cool things you got to do when you were the editor in chief. And so I went to go interview Michael Eisner, who was at the time the CEO of Disney. And you could have argued at the case. One of the most famous CEOs in the world, because Disney is Disney. So I went to interview him, and we talked about how the point of our interview was how you make an organization be more creative because, Disney, you needed people to be wildly creative. So that was the focus of our interview. At the end, we talked for, like, two, three hours. And at the end, I turned off the tape recorder and I said, look, I'm a new boss. I'm now running this organization. It's a popcorn stand, $100 million in revenues. But it's my company, so I want to. You know, it feels big to me.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I said, you know, what's your advice to me? And he looked at me in an exhausted way, and he said, only hire emotionally healthy people. And the way he said it was like, whoa. He's hired some very emotionally unhealthy people. And it's been taken up a big toll. And I came to find out this is one of the truest, realest, most accurate pieces of advice I've ever received as a Manager and as a leader, which is that you can fix almost anything in somebody or you can help somebody get better at almost anything. But emotional health, you have no levers. You're not therapist, you're not a psychiatrist. But if somebody's emotionally unhealthy in the job, they take up a huge amount of your time and energy and you can't even fix them, and they drain you. And eventually you fire them because you can't handle it. And so my advice hearing this is, yeah, health is everything at work. If you are an emotionally sound person, don't underestimate what a gigantic asset it is to be emotionally healthy. Your boss appreciates it and go for it. And if you're not emotionally sound, and sometimes we have seasons in our life where really we're not, bad stuff's happening. Get the help you need to get yourself on solid ground.

[B]

Do you usually have the advice that you should communicate? Let's say that you broke up with your girlfriend or you're in a situation, do you communicate that to your boss to let them know around where you are in your emotional soundness?

[A]

If you have just been broken up with or breaking up with somebody, and it, it should not be affecting your emotional soundness in a way that boils over to work. Okay. I mean, I like to keep work and personal life quite separate. And I, I, you know, I, I think if it's really affecting, like your ability to concentrate and so forth, you probably have one or two chits with that. You can go to your boss and say, please bear with me. I am not myself these next few weeks because I'm going through something quite difficult. But you can't keep doing that. I'd say do that once, and you've used it up because your boss is trying to create a product and service, and it's not your family and it's not, I mean, and I love organizations that feel like family, but your family is your family and your work is your work. And how much can you ask your boss to process your emotional life? I mean, what do you think?

[B]

I think that at least people in my generation, I hear my friends disclosing way more than I would ever disclose to my boss.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's been really interesting because I hear my friends now stepping into manager positions who are ill equipped to handle that information.

[A]

I do think, generationally, the expectation is your boss is somebody that you can bring your personal problems to. You have to understand your boss is managing a lot of other stuff besides you and your personal problems, and they're not equipped. Yeah. I mean they're not. And I want everybody to be emotionally healthy. I guess I just don't want to be. I don't want it to be expected as the boss that I am the handle all that. That I am the person who's going to get them emotionally healthy.

[B]

Companies always have gym memberships. Kombucha.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They're focusing on physical health.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do you want companies to focus on emotional health? Emotional soundness.

[A]

I think that you give them very good health insurance so that they can go. If they're having problems that are challenging their emotional health, that they can go get the appropriate help. Okay. Your typical manager in some companies. Manager is a person who went to Purdue engineering school and now they're managing engineers. They are not trained to help people with personal problems. I think you want to have a warm heart about it. But again, you know, in management the big win is, you know, performance plus a team that loves you. And you've got to get the performance side of it. That's the truth. So on this, your health is your greatest wealth. But you got to understand at work with your career, your boss wants emotional health. And if you're not emotionally healthy, you want to drive towards it as much as you can.

[B]

Happiness is temporary. Discipline is permanent.

[A]

100 agree.

[B]

I feel like this is your whole shtick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like this is.

[A]

Don't call it a stick.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Okay. Please do not the thesis. Please do not call my life's work a. Okay, thank you very much.

[B]

A perspective, a lens.

[A]

No, I mean this is my motto. And that I don't like the happiness industrial complex where they tell you that happiness is something you can achieve. I think happiness is fleeting. I think that you can have absolutely everything that should make you happy. And then, you know, something terrible happens in your life. A dog gets sick for instance, or whatever. You know, I think that there's. There happiness is some. Is a byproduct of a meaningful, productive life. And the best we can go for is a meaningful, productive life. And usually we get happiness from that. I want everyone to be happy. Don't get me wrong. I really do. Yeah, the world would just be a better place. But discipline, which is what you need to apply to get a meaningful, productive life that's permanent. Big fan of discipline. Are you shocked?

[B]

How does discipline show up for you in your personal life?

[A]

So I try to use systems thinking even in my personal life. So like I make decisions with a decision making system.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

10, 10, 10 and a way. It shows up in my personal life is I know my values. I know them ranked 1 to 16. And sometimes I say, like, what's this oh feeling? And I think, oh, that's right. I'm not living this value. Or these two values are in conflict. So discipline shows up in that I have a very acute awareness of who I am, and I try to live authentically. That's a discipline. Okay? To not live by default is a discipline. And just to remind folks of the 3Ds, there's just three ways to live. Say it with me. Number one is default. I mean, where you just sort of react to everything and you just sort of take it as it comes and you do your best and that's fine. I've lived like that for decades. Sometimes it goes that way. Hashtag children. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then there's deliberation, where you start to sprinkle in some self knowledge. And finally there's living by design. Okay. And I think that takes discipline.

[B]

A fourth D, right?

[A]

What? A fourth D. Oh, interesting. But I think that it's wrapped up, Justin.

[B]

Wrapped up in design. Design requires discipline. To start executing absolutely. On the life that you want.

[A]

That's right. And you have to do that. You have to know your values and your aptitudes. All roads lead to becoming you.

[B]

How do you increase discipline at work?

[A]

Well, you have to have people who are prone to discipline. I mean, if you.

[B]

It's something that you're hired for, you.

[A]

Have to be hired for it. I. To try to put it into somebody.

[B]

It's hard.

[A]

No can do. Next one.

[B]

No one respects weakness, even if they sympathize. I 100% disagree. Do you?

[A]

Oh, I 100% agree. 100% agree.

[B]

No one respects weakness, even if they sympathize.

[A]

Do you respect weakness?

[B]

I respect someone who's able to say, this is where I'm weak or this is where I'm struggling.

[A]

I respect vulnerability.

[B]

Okay, okay, so maybe we're weakness.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, this may be a semantic thing.

[B]

Help me understand weakness.

[A]

Weakness is the lack of courage, of conviction.

[B]

Okay, I say, like, you don't have a strong tailbone.

[A]

You won't make a decision. You won't commit. Okay, I believe we should do this. I should believe at work you have to commit somebody who's maybe pamby fingerprintless.

[B]

What did you say?

[A]

And then I. Then I went even deeper and I called it fingerprintless, where you just don't commit to anything. Lack of passion, lack of belief. Okay. You know, that is weakness to me. That's. That's that's lacking the courage of your conviction. And I'd rather have somebody take a stand and be wrong than just and then. And not commit. I don't know. I don't know. Well, what I hired you to have. I hired you to have an opinion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So I would say don't be weak at work. If you don't know the answer, go do the, go do the work. Go do the research, get an opinion, commit to it. And then. And so I think that nobody that I know sympathizes with mamby pamby fingerprintless behaviors.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Complaining changes Nothing.

[A]

Yeah, 100 agree.

[B]

You do.

[A]

100.

[B]

You don't think raising or complaining without doing anything you got.

[A]

Okay, so that's the caveat.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

If you're going to complain, especially at work, but in life in general, do not complain without a solution.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

If you come to somebody with a complaint, come with the solution also, because otherwise you're just a whining, moaning complainer. And there's no faster way to get on your boss's s list than being a whining Monica. Now look at work, you want skeptics. Yeah. You want challengers. You want people pushing back. You want people saying, is there a different way? You know, if somebody comes to you and they're saying, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad. No solutions. Goodbye. There's the door. Please exit. Yeah, don't be that person and don't be that person with the guys that you're the big skeptic with. You're the deep thinker. You know, I'm the last person between us. And like, lack of integrity, that's the I hate that personality award. If you're gonna complain, come with a solution.

[B]

Okay, next, not everyone you love will love you back.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Like a million percent. Right? Not everyone you love will love you back.

[A]

Right. That's a hundred percent. A million percent. And in fact, I have a personal story around this very briefly, which is I have to say I loved, I loved my first husband. He. And we are dear friends. I actually have spoken to him already today, twice. Okay? He didn't love me back. He loves me now. We're really good friends now. But he did not love me back. And we had a fight towards the end of our marriage. And I was driving to go get milk in those days. I still drank milk before I became a vegan. And I was driving and what came on the radio but Bonnie Raitt singing I can't make you love me if you don't. And it was like, God put that song. I truly believe God put that song on the radio. Because it was what I needed to hear. I needed to be told, you can't fix this. And it was the end. I mean, it was like very shortly afterwards, I basically went to him and said, bonnie Raitt says you can't. And he was. And he was like, yep. And that was it for us. And thank God it worked out the way it did. We got those four beautiful children and now we're dear friends. But you cannot make people love you. But. There's always a but. I think that people want to be loved at work.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

They think that that's going to save them. I think it's 1000% the wrong mindset. You don't want to be loved at work.

[B]

You want to be respected.

[A]

You want to be. No, even more, you want to be indispensable. Don't be loved. Be indispensable. Be indispensable. It's good to be.

[B]

Don't be loved. Be indispensable.

[A]

But guess what? It's really good to be loved and indispensable.

[B]

It's great to be both.

[A]

That's the greatest thing. That's the greatest thing. Be loved and indispensable. You know how hard that is? 5 people in the whole world. Okay. But I would say if you got to pick between the two, be indispensable. When it comes time for, oh, we have to have 10% layoffs, the indispensable people are going to stay. Now it's nice to be bothered. Both.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But what you're going for is you don't want you. Okay, you're not running for high school class president. Okay. You're running for, you know, customer president. People that the customers. So that's what you want. Everybody want. Well, not everybody, because they're people who don't care if they're loved or not. But at work, if you think being loved is going to save your rear end. No, being indispensable will. And the way you're dispensable is you just do the work incredibly well. You've come up with great ideas, you're great with people, and it's nice to be loved on the side. But if you're depict between the two.

[B]

There'S this whole thing on social media around personality hires Susie, around people who get hired because they're just good vibes.

[A]

Yes. Okay.

[B]

So isn't that indispensable?

[A]

It can be. If that matters to your company. I mean, Good vibes and being a good person, sometimes the company really needs it because it translates into great relationships with the customer. Yeah, okay. But you're not going to get. Stay on as an engineer if all you got is good vibes, okay? And frankly, you're not going to stay in any role just for good vibes. You may get your death sentence commuted a few times. I'm sorry. Very bad imagery. Make it. You may miss one layoff, then you'll miss another layoff. But eventually, if you're not indispensable, eventually you'll be gone. Okay, next.

[B]

Money won't solve all your problems, but it solves most.

[A]

Okay, I 5050 on this one, and I'll tell you why. In real life, money solves a lot of problems. It's better to have it than not. Somebody gets sick, you're going to want to have money. A bunch of different things. I'm not going to like, sit here and make the case that money isn't good. Okay, For. For you when you're in problems, it work. If you're entrepreneurs. Are you listening? Entrepreneurs? If you're an entrepreneur, having too much money allows you to make really stupid decisions. And in fact, young companies should act like they're out of money all the time because you get ruthless about resource allocation so money can screw you up. At Quadio, we had too many investors. People love the idea, and we just had too much money. And, man, it didn't make us better at business. Yeah, okay, next.

[B]

You're replaceable at your job.

[A]

100% agree. You are replaceable. No, even I'm replaceable and I run this place.

[B]

Some people are indispensable. So it's not 100%.

[A]

Okay, look, the goal is to be irreplaceable. But you know what? The graveyard is filled with people who said they were irreplaceable. Yeah. Okay? And sadly, this is. What you have to understand is you think you are. The minute. You think you're irreplaceable at work. The minute. Not good. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Why? What happens when you feel like you become an ass?

[A]

You become a jerk, and you start acting like a jerk. You got to keep your humility because everybody, everybody is replaceable. Next.

[B]

Life is unfair. Get used to it.

[A]

80, 20. 80, 20. Life is unfair. It is. It's just the way it is. It's a human condition. Young children get cancer. I mean, it's just. That sucks. And, and nature is unfair. And I mean, we could get into a deep theological conversation about this, but let's not because this is not that. That podcast.

[B]

That could be a new podcast.

[A]

It could be. Yeah. Because people are waiting for it. But I would say that. That life is unfair. But if you walk around with this attitude. Yeah. It's nihilism and a return to the first hard truth that we looked at. Things tend to work out for the good. And you've got to keep your head above water on this one. The minute you think everything's unfair, people smell it off of you and it's very unpleasant.

[B]

Yeah. Especially at work, when you feel like someone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is constantly thinking that the company is against them.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It's a very bad attitude. It is. And then it spreads. It sort of spreads.

[A]

Oh, it does. It's contagious. It is.

[B]

One day you'll run out of days. Is that a fact?

[A]

You do always run out of days. But if you're me, you think that you don't. But I would say that again, this would be in the exact same category as above. The minute you start thinking that you don't have time, you stop living. And you have to think, you know, I'm living till I'm gone. You know, I gonna live to the very last day, and I don't know when I'm gonna run out of days. Most of us don't know, and you gotta just keep on living. And I think that this is true.

[B]

At work and at home, regret hurts more than failure.

[A]

50% agree. 50% agree. Failure hurts a lot. That's the thing, is that regret's bad and nobody likes it. But I have failed many times publicly. And it's like a death. I mean, at work, getting fired and failing or screwing up at a project. I want to acknowledge that the fear of failure has its roots in reality. Failure hurts. It's embarrassing. To lose a client is embarrassing. To get fired is embarrassing. And so, yeah, you know, philosophically speaking, regret is bad, but failure is scary for a reason. So this is me just acknowledging the truth of why people don't take risks at work. Because failure feels terrible.

[B]

You've talked a little bit with me around failing well and getting better at failure or being more resilient around failure. Tell me more about.

[A]

I mean, look, failure is like. You get better at it with practice. The first time I failed, it was spectacular, Right? I was a spectacular. You can't fail.

[B]

Well, like explosive.

[A]

I got fired from the Harvard Business Reviews in the front page story in the Wall Street Journal. I ran off with Jack Welch, and it was like, disgraced Harvard editor, you know, runs off with Jack Welch. And I kept on, like, my little voice in the corner was like, but he's gonna marry me. And like, people like, okay. And it was. Oh, thank God there was no social media then. If there had been, it would have been. I would not have been come back able from. And I failed. I'd been the good little girl my whole life. You know, I this, that, and captain and this and that of everything. I got it. And always 1, 1, 1. And then when I finally failed, it was like public. And it was. I sobbed. I wept. I cried. And Jack, who was older and had failed spectacularly many times in his career with, you know, gee was the biggest company in the world, so you don't win them all. And he said to me, what are you crying about? And I said, I failed. And he said, susie, the way the world works is prince to pig. You're a prince, then you're a pig. You're a prince, then you're a pig. Get over it. You're going to be a prince to pig a lot in life. And you just have to get. And I was like, I'll never get over this. I'll never work again. I'm destroyed, you know? And a week later, Oprah's organization. Organization called. And I was working for her about 10 days later. And it was like, you know, I had. I had to then realize. It was the first time I realized, like, oh, I'll fail, and I'll fail a lot. And now I take all sorts of big swings because you don't die. You don't die. Actually, people like you a lot better. You have a lot of better stories to tell. I mean, it's not like I like losing or failing, but I am sure in the next month, I will fail ten times. And. But I'm getting up, and I'm taking a lot of big swings.

[B]

Right back up.

[A]

Is this the last one?

[B]

Last one.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Nobody cares about your excuses.

[A]

100% agree. And it's based on another hard truth that I say all the time. Here's that hard truth. Everyone writes the story of their life with themselves at the center as the hero. In other words, we all tell our narrative with us as the hero. And sometimes we're not. Sometimes we're not. Sometimes we're the heel, sometimes we're the antagonist. But we will tell ourselves that we did everything right, all right? And the rest of the world is looking at us, and they know that we're writing the story of our life as our. With ourselves as the hero. And they're thinking. No, they're not. Self awareness is like the most hard fought asset you can have. Nobody's born self aware. You have to earn it, but once you do, it makes you so much better. But you have to understand every time you're telling yourself an excuse or somebody else an excuse, you're telling your version of the events and they're sitting there and going, they're going to. And they don't believe you, so don't bother. If you're going to tell a story and you think you're the hero and everybody else, you're the victim because everybody else did it to you. Understand that the people listening to you don't feel it that way and you've got to see it through their eyes as well. That's self awareness. Self awareness is understanding how the world experiences you, which is not how you experience yourself. If I would say to you, Dustin, what's your personality? You would list a whole bunch of words. But then we'd have to go test whether or not the, the world that I say. Yeah. And, but I want to say one thing about you. You're one of the most self aware people I've ever met in my life. And so probably your list is pretty close to how we all experience you. You're not a good example. But in general, Okay. I had a student one time who told me, I'm, I'm honest, I'm realistic, I'm. And then she got back her 360 feedback.

[B]

It was not like that.

[A]

She's blunt, she's rude, she's annoying. Okay, so no one wants your excuses because they got their story. Yeah. You got to understand that that's the. Self awareness is the work of your life. I like we're ending on this one. But because it's big. Self awareness is the work of your life. You gotta understand your excuses are just your excuses and they end where the other person's observation of you begins. Yeah.

[B]

So much of the work that I see you do in the classroom and becoming you is taking someone's excuse and helping expose what it really is.

[A]

You know, that's an art, isn't it?

[B]

The four E's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The four horsemen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are actually all excuses that we use.

[A]

Yeah. So those are very quickly the reasons why we don't live the life we should live, which are expectations, economic security, all of these very understandable events and expedients. And you're right. A lot of time what I'm doing up there is saying, which one of these excuses have you been telling yourself? And is it. Is it a good enough excuse? All right, well, I love playing this game with you. Maybe we should do it again.

[B]

Yeah, I can't wait for another list.

[A]

Another list to come out and we will debunk it. Or not. Dustin, you're the best. You're the most darling, brilliant Asian on this show.

[B]

You couldn't say the best podcast guest because your daughter Sophia will be listening.

[A]

She would be listening. Also, Pierre is often a podcast guest. You're wonderful. And I love doing. I love doing Career Confidential with you. Let's do it again soon. If you're here for coming you the first time, please come back. We do lots of stuff on this podcast and we love having you with us. See you next week, okay? And this show is produced by the amazing and fabulous Mikey Robley, Elisa Zinn, Issa Lampson, and Hallie Reiner. And if you liked what you heard, and I'm on my knees praying that you did, follow me at Suzy Welch across all my platforms, Everywhere, Instagram and LinkedIn and even TikTok. Although somehow TikTok doesn't seem to work for me. And don't forget to leave a rating and a review below because a lot of people have. And I love you, you people who have. It's not all my children, because there's just too many of them. I will see you next time. And until then, keep becoming you. It.