Two Boomers and a Zoomer Walk Into a Bar… And A Values Hoedown Ensues ft. "Excuse My Grandma"

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Becoming You with Suzy Welch
Episode: Two Boomers and a Zoomer Walk Into a Bar… And A Values Hoedown Ensues ft. "Excuse My Grandma"
Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Suzy Welch (NYU Stern Professor, journalist, bestselling author)
Guests: Kim and "Grandma" from the multigenerational media brand "Excuse My Grandma"

---

Episode Overview

This episode unpacks generational differences and bridge-building through the lens of personal values. Suzy Welch invites Kim and her grandmother ("Excuse My Grandma") to take and discuss their results on the Values Bridge, a tool that helps people understand and articulate their most important values—and the degree to which they’re actually living those values. Through lively, loving conversation, the trio explores how upbringing, age, and cultural shifts shape what we care about, highlighting how open dialogue (and a sense of humor) allows for mutual understanding without conflict.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Backstory of "Excuse My Grandma"

[01:27–03:40]

• Kim explains how the media brand began during the COVID-19 pandemic, after moving in with her grandparents:

  “I was in my early 20s going on lots of dates and grandma was getting very involved in all of it… Let's start a podcast together.” — Kim [02:14]

• Quickly expanded to TikTok and Instagram, building a following of over 1.5 million across generations.
• Grandma credits Kim as the driving force but appreciates being the “talent,” noting their audience is about 50% over 50.

2. The Art of Bridge-Building Across Generations

[03:40–05:53]

• Suzy highlights their public model of loving dialogue through disagreement:

  “You have these conversations which are sometimes you don't agree… It's like the conversations we all want to have. We want to talk about the differences in values in a way that is loving and not explosive.” — Suzy [03:40]

• Grandma shares tips for staying connected across generations (tech adoption, intentional communication).

3. Values Bridge Assessment: How They Compare

[05:53–14:20]

Grandma’s Top Values

• Family Centricism: Family as the organizing life principle.
• Affluence: Desire for financial security (“It’s generational…”).
• Voice: Authentic self-expression.
• Low desire for Luminance (fame): It’s her lowest value; she participates out of love for Kim.

Kim’s Top Values

• Eudaimonia: Greek for flourishing—self-care, pleasure, leisure, fun (includes mental health).

  “Every day you wake up and I'm like, this is how I'm feeling… I can't imagine pushing that down.” — Kim [11:09]

• Luminance: Ambition to be well-known.

  “Since I’m 2 years old, I’m like, I want to be a movie star.” — Kim [12:58]

• Family Centricism: Family still ranks high.

• Voice: Authentic self-expression, but less realized than desired.

• Intergenerational contrasts:

  • Older generations (Grandma, Suzy) have lower emphasis on self-care (Eudaimonia) and fame (Luminance), higher on affluence and family.
  • Younger generation (Kim) sees self-care as an antidote to anxiety and is comfortable desiring recognition.

4. The Meaning and Expression of Values

[14:20–22:49]

• Belovedness (romantic importance):

  • Kim: Low. Career and autonomy are a priority.
  • Grandma: Higher, reflects cultural context where women centered lives on partners.

  “Would you give up your career for a man?”
  “No.” — Both [19:29–19:34]

• Generational context:

  • Grandma notes women had fewer career opportunities: “Very few women had careers…families were your career.” [20:39]
  • Kim reflects possibility of values changing after “seismic events” (marriage, children, loss).

5. How Values Change—Or Don’t

[22:49–25:21]

• Suzy summarizes academic perspectives:

  • Values mostly set by age 25.
  • Expression of values can shift after major life changes (“seismic events”) but generally remain stable.

  “The pandemic was one of these things that just shifted everybody’s values around…changing your values is a really big deal.” — Suzy [25:04]

• Grandma reflects on negative impacts of pandemic isolation for older generations, while Kim notes it gave her space to reflect on what she truly wanted.

6. Authenticity Gap: Where Are You Living Your Values—& Where Not?

[26:47–32:49]

• Kim:

  • Eudaimonia & Luminance: Not as fully lived as desired (“Bring it!”) [27:54].
  • Voice: Wants to express herself more apart from the duo dynamic with Grandma.

    “I would love for everyone to know me a little bit more and, like, even personally, like find out…what my personal brand is.” — Kim [28:22]

  • Radius (impact) & Agency (control/autonomy): Largest gaps—feels not making as big an impact or having as much personal agency as she hopes.

    “I never feel like I’m doing enough, like, to help…to leave a mark permanently.” — Kim [30:52] “A lot of people in my life have opinions and want to tell me how to live my life.” — Kim [31:54]

• Grandma:

  • Family Centricism, Voice, Place, Belonging: No gap; she’s living as she wishes.
  • Affluence: Wants more financial security (possibly for legacy).
  • Luminance: Too much exposure; she participates for Kim’s sake, not her own.

    “I’m looking to get rid of things, not...get more.” — Grandma [29:25]

7. Relationship Values & Communication

[16:08–17:59]

• Suzy discusses how mismatch in values causes relationship issues.
• Naming specific values/language makes “values conversations” concrete and productive.

  “The limits of my language are the limits of my world.” — Student via Suzy (referencing Wittgenstein) [17:42]

8. Closing Thoughts: Modeling Loving Disagreement

[34:23–35:00]

• Suzy summarizes: Open, values-based dialogue models how to disagree lovingly, and grow closer rather than apart.

  “You allow people then to go and have conversations like this with the people around them…your ability to talk about values in a way that’s actually incredibly loving and respectful without caving to the other person.” — Suzy [34:47]

• Kim and Grandma reflect on feeling heard, sometimes compromising, and sometimes standing firm—a healthy dynamic.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Generational Understanding:

  • “Everybody has joy from a different thing. To me, joy would be seeing family…not so much in going to a gym and feeling like I had buffed up for the weekend.” — Grandma [09:38]

• On Changing Values Over Time:

  • “I think that they’re pretty stable over our lives. We do, though, have seismic events.” — Suzy [24:17]
  • “If I had to do it again, maybe it might be different. You can't even do it because I wasn't raised…It’s also generational.” — Grandma [21:07]

• On Self-Care and Anxiety:

  • “For people who are younger…they’ll talk about Eudaimonia as being their defense against anxiety. Anxiety is something that…It's almost like the specter hanging over the younger generations.” — Suzy [10:09]

• On Fame/Ambition Conflict:

  • “Should I feel bad that I'm making her do her last thing for my first thing or is because family's her first, it's like a mutually beneficial…” — Kim [14:20]
  • “I think it’s mutually beneficial…also, I’m having a lot of fun.” — Grandma [14:37]

• On Relationship Priorities:

  • “I feel like there are things that are so intrinsic to me that I'm not changing myself for a man. 100.” — Kim [19:34]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:27] — How “Excuse My Grandma” began (Kim)
• [03:40] — Value of loving disagreement (Suzy)
• [06:09] — Grandma’s top values revealed (Suzy)
• [08:37] — Eudaimonia and anxiety as generational value (Kim & Suzy)
• [12:29] — Kim’s drive for fame/luminance (Suzy & Kim)
• [14:20] — Intergenerational value conflicts (Kim & Grandma)
• [19:29] — Would you give up your career for a man? (“No.”)
• [22:49] — Are values set or do they change? (Suzy’s research)
• [26:51] — Discussion of authenticity gaps (Suzy)
• [28:22] — Kim on self-expression gap
• [30:52] — Kim on legacy/radius gap
• [31:54] — Agency gap and feeling controlled
• [34:47] — How to talk about values lovingly (Suzy)

---

Structure of Episode

• Introduction & Context: Suzy sets up the conversation around values and bridge-building.
• Origin Story: Kim and Grandma narrate their journey to becoming a media brand.
• Values Bridge Deep Dive: Going through each’s top values and comparing generational differences.
• Authenticity Gap: Where each is or isn’t living their stated values.
• Communication Tips: Language for value-based conversations, especially in relationships.
• Broader Implications: How values shape life and how the pandemic triggered value-shifts.
• Closing: Modeling mutual respect, loving dialogue, and the importance of “running back and forth on the bridge.”

---

Tone & Takeaway

Lively, candid, and loving—this episode delivers humor, wisdom, and actionable insights. Suzy’s framework and the guests’ openness make “values” vivid and tangible, offering listeners a roadmap for bridging generational divides in their own lives—all grounded in frank self-reflection and respect.

Transcript

[Grandma]

Foreign.

[Susie Welch]

Hello, it's Susie Welch. This is Becoming you. The podcast where each week we endeavor to answer the small, tiny little question, what the heck should I do with my life? And we go at it in a lot of different ways, but mainly we talk about excavating your values, what you truly believe and want from your life, your aptitudes, what you're good at, and your economically viable interest. The our podcast in My Whole Life is based on a class I teach at NYU Stern School of Business, which is a about becoming you. And that's what we want to help you do more of today. We have such a special episode. I know I say it every week, but you're going to love this episode. I know it because I'm taping this introduction at the end. And so I know what's coming for you in the next 30 minutes or so. We are talking about building bridges with two people who, who are so good at building bridges. You know them because they do the whole media empire around, excuse my grandma. They are the ultimate bridge builders between generations. And we're going to see what they have to say about their results on the values bridge, which is the test that you can take if you've not already taken it, which measures what your values are and how much you're actually living them. I want to just start with a little background and just tell us all. Although some people already know how you ended up basically kind of going into business together.

[Kim]

Well, first, thank you so much for having us. That was such a nice intro. Like, I want to think about myself as you just described. That's so nice. No, it is crazy to think that it's been five years since we started and now it is a full fledged, multi generational media brand. It originated because I was working for a streaming news network as a producer and on air reporter. And during COVID we went remote. And so New York was kind of miss. I know we were talking before and we were like, New York is the best. And during COVID when you couldn't leave and it was freezing, I wanted to go to Florida and be with my grandparents. So I was in my early 20s going on lots of dates and grandma was getting very involved in all of it. We've always been very, very close and I've always like, you've always given your two cents, Grandma.

[Grandma]

Absolutely.

[Kim]

But this was new level because I was living with you, right? And I said, let's start a podcast together so we can share those conversations and really bring to light all those generational differences of dating and Relationships and lifestyle. And it quickly turned into TikTok and Instagram, where really our main audience is. We have a million and a half followers across our platforms and people are really relating to the, to the stuff we're doing and the videos we're making, I think.

[Grandma]

And gotta give credit for Kim because Kim's idea is all through the whole podcast and all these things. I'm what they say is the talent. She hires me, but she's the boss. And it's worked because she's got the really the pulse of what the audience wants and what young people and older people. Because I would say 50% of the audience is clearly over 50 by the people who stop us on the street. They're all watching us and which is so nice. And we're very thankful to the. Our dedicated followers who really, really listen. We're just doing what we feel is our values and our thoughts on.

[Kim]

It's entertaining and relatable.

[Grandma]

Correct.

[Kim]

Our demo really is like, as you were saying, half around the 50 plus audience, but then a lot around 20s and 30s. And you can really relate to it because you see a family member maybe that is still around in your life if you're close with a grandparent or one that passed away. Like everyone kind of has their own personal connection to it.

[Susie Welch]

Right. And I think that the first for me, the appeal is that you have these conversations which are sometimes you don't agree, we don't yet you love each other and it's like the conversations we all want to have. We want to talk about the differences in values in a way that is loving and not explosive. And to see a model of that is really good.

[Grandma]

Well, you know, it's interesting. We spoke at an event last winter in Florida and that was very much what people in the audience wanted to know how to do it. Which is so interesting because we have always done it because Kim was raised in New York, went to school in New York, and virtually we lived across the street from each other for many years. So we were always part of our lives. It becomes harder for different generations to keep in touch when they don't live near each other. So we've made a little plan. We've told people how we would do it exactly. And we've said you've got to educate yourself and how to get on the social media and on your iPads or whatever, your computer, and talk to your grandchildren, children, talk to your nieces, nephews, somebody who you love, who's not next door. And it does take a little effort and a Little time, but it's rewarding.

[Susie Welch]

Here, look, I think it's this. You've got to build a bridge. Correct. And you know the title of the tool, the assessment tool that we talk about all the time on this podcast, and that is kind of the centerpiece of the whole becoming a methodology. It's. It's intentional. It's called the values bridge because its goal is to create a language so people can have conversations like yours. Right. You talk about value differences, and in a way, there's a bridge between the two of you. Okay. You're not waving at each other from opposite shores, and you're not turning your backs on each other. You're saying, like, we really disagree about this. Let's talk about it. Let's meet in the middle and talk about it. And so I think we're the same kind of, you know, we're aligned in this way. So what I'd love to do with our time together, of which I'm very grateful, is to talk about your values. You both were very wonderful and took the values bridge. Thank you. And I have the data about what your values are, which are not exactly the same. No surprise. And what's also really interesting is what. What we call the authenticity gap, which is how much you are living or not living your current values. You both are both very close to living your values. There's just. There's one or two discrepancies where I'd love to hear your opinions about it, but let's do that. Okay. All right.

[Grandma]

Sounds great.

[Susie Welch]

All right. You saw your results, didn't you?

[Grandma]

No, I didn't see.

[Susie Welch]

Oh, good, good, good. Okay, great. All right, so look, I'm going to talk about your. I'm going to go down your values and talk about what your top five values are. There's some overlap. Okay, who wants to go first?

[Grandma]

I'll go first.

[Susie Welch]

All right, so this is probably not going to surprise you. Your number one value is a value we call family centrism. Correct. And this is family as the organizing principle of your life, and you have it as number one. That means when you make decisions, that is. That's. That's the thought in your head is, how does this affect my family? It's no surprise to me that you're in a family business because of this. And I think what I know about you is it's been true your whole life.

[Grandma]

Yes.

[Susie Welch]

You know, you got married after you met your wonderful husband, you quickly got married, and he was the center of your life. Okay. So, interestingly, your second Value is what we call affluence, which is the desire for financial security. Many people have this in their top values. It's actually generational, is that if you're older, you have it as a higher value. And I think that says something about security, society, and security today. And so then your third value is what we call voice. This is authentic self expression. You need, want, desire, and are motivated to be your authentic self. It's like what's on the inside. You put it on the outside, and you wouldn't have it any other way. Sound familiar to you?

[Grandma]

Correct. Very good.

[Kim]

And it sounds like you. And I'm excited to, like, share that for people who, like, want to know more about us, like, our own audience. Like, I feel like that would help them understand you at an even deeper level.

[Grandma]

Oh, my gosh. Kim is going to get committed to this survey.

[Susie Welch]

I know I don't. Please do. Okay. All right. I. But. Okay, so your values are quite. You have one overlapping, two overlapping values in the top. You also value family centrism. At number three. Your family is very important to you. Family, not just your family, but the concept of family is a top value for you. Number three. Also important to you, like your grandmother, is voice, this authenticity thing that matters to you. You don't want to be a phony. You don't. You don't want to withhold yourself from the world. And you may be thinking to yourself, doesn't everybody have voices of value in the answers? No. Because if you think about some cultures, for instance, there are Asian cultures, like in Japan, and there's American cultures, like the Amish, for whom not expressing yourself and conformity with the group is. Is actually a much higher value. So belonging would be higher for them. But your top two values are very different from your mom, from your grandmother's, and probably from your mother's as well. Generationally. Yeah. So the first value you share with almost everybody of your age group, which is eudaimonia. That's the value of. It encompasses. It's an umbrella value. It's the Greek word for flourishing, and it encompasses self, care, pleasure, leisure, recreation, and fun. It can include sex. That's also in there. But it's.

[Kim]

When I was answering, I promise I didn't say sex.

[Susie Welch]

But we're testing for it. Okay, but it's about. Look, this is very, very generationally. All my four children in their 30s have eudaimonia as a top value. And this is about. I understand it. I mean. Or I attempt to understand it. There's a desire With a younger generation, the world is being very complicated. The world can be quite hard, and. And there's this feeling I want to protect myself. I want to protect my. I think it's a very uncommon value for. Much more uncommon for our generation, in fact. Let's see where Eudaimonia is for you.

[Grandma]

Probably nowhere.

[Susie Welch]

It's actually. Here's such a funny Data point. It's 10. Okay? So it's quite low. And guess what? You have a variance that shows there's just too much of it in your life. Okay. A negative 49% variance basically says, there's fun. I could use less of it. There's. There's recreation. I could use less of it. And I think that, you know, what that would mean to me is that you would like. You would like more family centrism, more affluence, more voice, more place, because eudaimonia is presenting too much. Okay.

[Kim]

I just feel like that's where joy comes from. And like, I mean, I guess.

[Susie Welch]

Well, no, but joy is different.

[Grandma]

Everybody has joy from a different thing. To me, joy would be seeing family and. And getting involvement in family things. Not so much in going to a gym and feeling like I had buffed up for the weekend or whatever that was. So it's a different kind joy.

[Susie Welch]

And not.

[Grandma]

Not the joyous is wrong or the mind is wrong. I just wouldn't think the same way.

[Kim]

No, totally. I get what you're saying. And obviously family's third on mine, but now I feel like an asshole because.

[Grandma]

Don't feel that way because it's a different time.

[Susie Welch]

You're also. It's a different time. And I'll tell you, I don't know if this is something that you can relate to, but when I talk to individuals about this result, a lot of times for people who are younger, in their 20s and early 30s even, they'll talk about eudaimonia as being their defense against ANX. Okay. They'll say, basically, yeah, this is me doing things in my life that decrease anxiety. Anxiety is something that. That. It's almost like the specter hanging over the younger generations. They don't want to feel it. They feel like there's too much of it. Whereas I think with our older generations, it was like, that's life. I'm gonna feel anxious for the next 25 years. I have children. I have no discuss that.

[Grandma]

That's a psychiatrist syndrome.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah. I'm just like, I'm gonna feel anxiety. There's nothing I can do get away from it.

[Grandma]

Right.

[Susie Welch]

And so we sort of have a different now. Look, maybe we were wrong. Maybe we shouldn't have said, anxiety, come and get me, okay? Because maybe we should have said, I need to take better care of myself. Your generation is saying, it's not good. And our generation was like, that's the way it was.

[Kim]

Yeah. Or I can speak for myself. I don't know about the whole generation, but, like, I feel like I'm so attuned. Like, and my mom's like this too. But every day you wake up and I'm like, this is how I'm feeling. This is how my mind is. This is how my body's feeling. Like, I don't. I can't imagine pushing that down.

[Susie Welch]

I think you've just summed up Eudaimonia. That is exactly it. I never, ever, ever think about that. Me neither. And it's not right.

[Grandma]

Me neither. So I'm one step into the grave and I never thought of that.

[Kim]

Complaining almost. Sometimes I'm like, I have. I wake up with these 10, like, issues and like, how can I make myself like, all right, you know, feel better, whatever. And you all. We were just talking about this at lunch. You're like, ignore it, Ignore it.

[Grandma]

That's what I'm saying. What the hell? You got it, you got it. You just go on with your life.

[Susie Welch]

Just to return to you saying, like, I wake up in the morning and I think, how am I feeling? Right on. You know, like, checking in with myself. This is Eudaimonia in action. And this is something that's quite foreign to us. It's like, you wake up in the morning and you're like, happy to get up? Yeah, let's.

[Grandma]

Happy to go.

[Susie Welch]

Let's go, let's go. Okay, but let's talk about your second value. Yeah. Okay, so your second value is. I want to. I'm saying this with trepidation because my own daughter has it very. My other daughter has a very high. And she hates me mentioning in public. And it's a value that we call luminance. Okay. And that is to be well known. It's fame. Okay. So I think.

[Kim]

I'm not surprised.

[Susie Welch]

Okay, okay. All right.

[Grandma]

That's part of the business.

[Susie Welch]

I think it's. It is part of your business.

[Grandma]

And that I understand.

[Susie Welch]

And you wouldn't be in this business. You wouldn't have been an on air correspondent. I, you know, I myself was. Have been on TV during my career, and. And either you love it or you don't, but nobody ends up well known, generally, unless they have Said yes to it.

[Grandma]

Right.

[Susie Welch]

Okay, you've said yes now, so it's interesting. And actually your score, it's number two for you. It shows even that you would like more than you've currently got.

[Kim]

Oh, way more.

[Susie Welch]

Okay.

[Kim]

I feel like I'm very low on the spectrum. I feel like I am making strides and like we have an amazing audience and more people know who we are. And we, you know, we're doing podcasts like this amazing one today. But since I'm 2 years old, I'm like, I want to be a movie star. I want all this stuff.

[Grandma]

She always loved it.

[Susie Welch]

I want to tell you the test does not lie, because there you have it at number two. So you're waking up in the morning and you're checking in on yourself and all those things that are eudaimonic, and then you're saying, like, how famous am I right? And that's. Look, you know, the beauty of it is it allows you to have a really clear conversation with yourself and your people that you love and a boyfriend and your family and say, look, you know, like I'm saying to my family all the time, look, it's my achievement value speaking. And again, it's the bridge building. But I want to talk to you about luminance for you. Where do you think it showed up?

[Grandma]

I don't think it showed up so much.

[Susie Welch]

Very, very low. It's your last one.

[Kim]

Yeah, I knew.

[Susie Welch]

Okay.

[Grandma]

Yeah. I don't really care about it.

[Susie Welch]

You don't. And not only do you not care about it, it's number dead last. It's number 16. And actually your numbers would show that it's showing up too much for you. And so I kind of think this is what I'm seeing is love, because you are going along with this ride out of love and belief in your granddaughter. She's on a great journey. You. You make her journey better. You've got this wonderful, you know, thing going, and you're saying like, I'm in it. I'm in it for her. So in a way, your family centrism is overcoming your desire not to have luminance. So I think that we are. That's what we're seeing.

[Kim]

Wait, but should I feel bad?

[Grandma]

Oh, my gosh, should I feel bad? What's the shrinks number? We have to call him right now.

[Kim]

Should I feel bad that I'm making her do her last thing for my first thing or is because family's her first. It's like a mutually beneficial.

[Susie Welch]

I think it's.

[Grandma]

I think it's mutually beneficial, I think also, I'm having a lot of fun.

[Susie Welch]

Okay. May I just say that something tells me that if she didn't want to do it, she might tell you.

[Grandma]

Exactly.

[Susie Welch]

Okay. That's just the volume I have. All right?

[Grandma]

So believe me. And I do tell her, sometimes it's too much. Grandma has to stop at a certain amount of time because I can't keep going like she can. But I am having the most fun out of this. And what has come out of this whole thing is that all the other inertia around me became very, very low.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah.

[Grandma]

And having fun and meeting new young people mostly.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah.

[Grandma]

Has been fabulous.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah.

[Grandma]

And I love it because, you know, I don't have to listen to somebody complaining that their hip is hurting or their toe is out of alignment. I am listening to people who are now starting careers and it's fabulous. And I'm getting a second chance. Cuz I never worked. Unlike you, I never worked. So my work was my family.

[Susie Welch]

Right.

[Grandma]

And I'm loving this now. This is like a second. This is like a career I never had.

[Susie Welch]

I know it's fun.

[Grandma]

And I'm not doing. Because I am doing it because of you, but because I like.

[Kim]

Okay, good. Because also I did a.

[Grandma]

Don't get any guilt trip from this.

[Susie Welch]

I know she's loving it. I don't think you have to worry. But in a couple. Okay, all right. In a. In a romantic relationship, this is definitely a question you have to ask. Okay. Am I repressing my values for my partner? All right, like, so, for instance, I've done this with couples many times, and one time when we did it, one couple had no variance. Everything was. They were living exactly their values, but the other member of the couple was not at all. And then the husband said, we are living my wife's dream of life.

[Grandma]

Right.

[Susie Welch]

And that's what you don't. Do not want that. That is not a recipe for anything good. Because it blows up.

[Kim]

So that should be high on his list.

[Susie Welch]

Well, actually with luminance, it's a very interesting thing. What's a danger is when both people have high luminance. Okay. In. In with luminance, I think in couples, I just actually had a couple on the show recently where she had a very high and he had a very low. And it was. He said, you know, I'm in service of her luminance. I totally support her. That's what's going on here. And I think when two. But with couples, generally, I like to see pretty Much overlap in the top values. You want both to have a certain kind of same value around beloved. But let's talk about your value around belovedness. Actually, now that I bring it up. But just to finish my thought, you both have to have the same value around how important romance is to you, how important family is to you, how important money is to you. Because you know that when couples break up, it's because they're having fights about those issues.

[Grandma]

We have discussed this ad nausea.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Grandma]

Biggest fight anybody has is over money. Money and sex.

[Kim]

Yeah, I said that to Zach the other day. And like, oh, also I feel like having a conversation about, like, we always say values are important, but now having, like, names to put to those values or, like, very specific, like, categories and levels of it.

[Grandma]

Oh, you're going to love this.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah, I know. Look, I'll tell you something. I was out lecturing at Stanford, and after I talked about the values inventory that I created and all these different. I mean, this is what my PhD thesis is about and so forth. After I was lecturing about the names of the values and what they all meant and how it allows us to have a conversation. Stanford student came up and she goes, you know, this reminds me of the Wittgenstein quote. And I was like, here we are. And she said, you know, the limits of my language are the limits of my world. And I think what you're saying is right now, here are some words like, yeah, you can say this. Values are so important. And then, and then you ask people, what are values? Right.

[Grandma]

What are you?

[Susie Welch]

Family, Financial security.

[Grandma]

Well, guess what.

[Susie Welch]

There's 16 values all in. Those are two of them. And then they sometimes mention virtues like kindness. Yeah, that's great. Everyone agrees kindness is fine. Values you can disagree about. But there is this value of belovedness, which is how important is a romantic relationship in your life. And we thought originally that belovedness would be captured by family centrism. And then we tested and we found it isn't. Because you can have very high family centrism. Your family comes first. And you can have your romantic partner down in the middle or down in the bottom. Zero is right. You can have that for sure. We found that. Or you can have belovedness very high, like it's about my guy or it's about my wife. And you can have family centrism quite low, because family centrism is also the in laws and the children. So let's see where you both ended up. Okay, let's see.

[Kim]

I can guess.

[Susie Welch]

Okay. Guess, guess, guess.

[Kim]

It'd be higher for me and lower for her.

[Susie Welch]

You are, Kim. You are interesting because you are very. This is exactly what the data would show about your entire generation. Belovedness for you is low. It's 15.

[Kim]

Stop.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah, it's low.

[Kim]

All I do is like, why are you excited?

[Susie Welch]

Okay.

[Kim]

Okay.

[Susie Welch]

I have. I have a theory.

[Kim]

Sure.

[Susie Welch]

Okay. So you may desire a romantic relationship because you value family so highly. And so to create a family, you know, you need to enter into a romantic relationship. But you're not going to be organizing your entire life around a guy. Okay. The guy has got.

[Grandma]

I don't know that my. That thing might be wrong.

[Susie Welch]

The guy has got to fit into your life. It would be my.

[Kim]

Okay, that's fair.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah.

[Kim]

I. I feel that.

[Susie Welch]

Would you give up your career for a man?

[Grandma]

No.

[Kim]

Right. Exactly. Like, I feel like there are things that are so intrinsic to me that I'm not changing myself for a man. 100. But I also am constantly, like, romanticizing things and daydreaming about relationships and whatever.

[Susie Welch]

But I. I guess we all want love. Yeah. We want it for different reasons. Okay. Sometimes we want love for affluence. Sometimes we want love for family. Sometimes we want love because we want to travel. Okay. There's a lot of different reasons. But when you have belovedness at your level, it suggests to me that you would not blow up your world. You would not stop working, you would not throw away your career. You would not do a lot of things to. To build your life around a man.

[Kim]

I think that's true.

[Susie Welch]

It doesn't mean that you don't want love. We all want love. Only somebody who's not well would not want love. You're just not organizing your life around it.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Susie Welch]

All right. Yeah. For you, it's higher. Okay. It's number eight. You have it at eight, which is about, you know, which means that you. Family centrum is very high. And you love your husband for sure. And you love your boyfriend. I'm not saying you don't. I'm just saying. Right. In terms of what you. What you organize your life around, you organized your life around his happiness. His. Much more than you ever did.

[Grandma]

Again, timing also. It's also the. When it was the 60s, you didn't get. Very few women had careers. There were some. There were some, but most of them didn't. Outliers and families were your career.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah.

[Grandma]

So, I mean, that was it. That's a very hard thing to compare. We've often discussed this on the podcast. You can't discuss the way People married, got involved with people in the 60s and the 50s to 2025 also.

[Kim]

Like your ideal, like future.

[Grandma]

Well, because that was. But that was part of my experience. In other words, my experience was something that came out of that time. If I had to do it again, maybe it might be different. You can't even. You can't even do it because I wasn't raised. You know, it's also generational. You had grandparents that live that way and parents had lived that way. So I think it's a different generational feeling now that was never expressed before.

[Susie Welch]

Absolutely. And when. If you wanted to be a woman in those in that era who had a career, you were really bucking the system. My grandmother did it. She had worked and she had a business. And it, I mean, but it was.

[Grandma]

The exception to the rule.

[Susie Welch]

It was. And it was very, very hard for her. She was Catholic, and the priest used to come over on Sunday and say, we missed you at church, Francesca. And they really shame. Okay. But she. But she was. If I. Obviously she's not with us anymore, but if she took this Test, I am 100%, sir. Her number one value would have been achievement.

[Grandma]

Right.

[Susie Welch]

And then second would have been affluence because she was poor and it was driving. Striving that she was driving. She was a true. And then she came to the United States and was able to really make a life for herself, but she had to buck a lot of stuff that the culture was telling her. Okay. She was the only. And she was divorced.

[Grandma]

I was like Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I was my perfect example where her. She had to. Her husband stepped aside after she stepped aside for him, and then he stepped aside for her. You know, in a way, if you're having a family, and this is the other thing, family becomes, you know, we're talking about single people. But once the family and children get involved, it's also a different set of priorities that come in. So as much as you might want to be successful at work, unless you economically able to do it, you have to stay home and raise children.

[Kim]

If I take the test 10, 20 years.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah, let's talk about that.

[Kim]

Will my answer be different?

[Susie Welch]

Okay, so let's talk about.

[Grandma]

That's the thing.

[Susie Welch]

Okay, so here's that. That's a very good question. And here's the question. And I'm going to sort of be a little bit of a scholarly nerd on you for a second. There's two fields of study in values. Okay. That world. The world. I work in the field. I Work in is the values. And there's values formation, which is how we come by our values. Why do we have our values? And you've mentioned some of these. Culture, society, options, family, experience, trauma, all these things, they all go into a big stew and it gets stirred up. And about age 25, I think, think your values are pretty much formed by age 25. Okay. And then there's a whole school of thought about values expression. That's the field I'm in, which is like, okay, I don't care where, how you came. Okay. Sort of care. But it's not, you know, how you came by your values is how you came by them. I'm interested in how much you're living them or not living them. That's my work. Okay. But of course, I bump into the values, the values formation. How could I not? But I think if your values are formed by age 25, and I pretty much buy into that, what changes over your life is how much you get to express them or not express them. So who knows? You may have had achievement as a higher value, and. But the world was not going to let you. And so you repressed it and it dropped down to the bottom. What can change your values in 10 or 20 years is a seismic event. Okay. So I am pretty sure we didn't have values bridge when my husband was living, but I'm pretty sure when Jack was living, belovedness was probably my second value. I was so committed to our marriage, and I thought, the greatest gift I can give our children is a happy marriage. And I was. And I loved him, and I was very high, probably my second value, because cosmos is my top value. And then I just took the test recently. I've been a widow for six years, and belovedness dead last for me. So I had a seismic event. And so I do think, okay, so if a seismic event happens in the next 10 to 20 years, you get married, you have children, and you discover, oh, my God, just staying home with these kids is a kind of happiness and high I never thought I'd have. That would be a seismic realization. And your values might change around. But in general, do I think our values change every five years, every three years? I do not. Yeah. Okay. I do not. I think that they're pretty stable over our lives. We do, though, have seismic events. Okay. And I think one of the things that happened to the country is that the pandemic was a seismic event that changed people, reordered people's values. And I think that's why it was so disturbing. I Think that's why it was so upsetting is like changing your values is a really big deal. You know, they say the big traumas in life are like divorce and moving and death and so forth. I think that the pandemic was one of these things that just shifted everybody's values around. And it's. It was agonizing and not for the.

[Grandma]

Better in many cases. Well, the COVID I mean, the pandemic. Because I think people withdrew from society and really went back into a shell, stayed in their home or stayed with one person or two people. And they were not. I mean, we see this in school, the school children who really were hurt terribly.

[Susie Welch]

Terribly.

[Kim]

That's the opposite point. Because I feel like when you have a minute where every other factor is turned off and you're just like there sitting with yourself, you get to reflect on what you actually want and then you can change.

[Grandma]

You're right in that sense. But I think for the general part of society was not a good thing because I think everybody was thrown backwards. Everybody was paralyzed. Nobody knew if you're going to live.

[Kim]

Or die where you, like, couldn't leave.

[Susie Welch]

Events in the culture will affect values kind of writ large.

[Kim]

It's also so funny because I feel like I was a very. And still am, but like, I go out every night. I don't know why I'm saying this, but like super social and into like party.

[Susie Welch]

But you were very young.

[Grandma]

You were young when that.

[Kim]

Then post Covid. Now I say it's like grandma core. Like, I want to get to bed early and like, you know, sit with my heating pad. And it kind of is my first value. But I see that shift within myself.

[Susie Welch]

Right. I know there's nothing like going to bed at 9 o'.

[Grandma]

Clock.

[Kim]

Are we. Are we living our. Wait, like, you know, how our future values and then the ones that we're living today.

[Susie Welch]

Right.

[Kim]

Is there a gap or was there anything that.

[Susie Welch]

Let's talk about your gaps.

[Kim]

Okay.

[Susie Welch]

Okay. So what we measure, we're going to. You led the question here. But let's talk about the gaps you have. So we measure two things with the values. Bridge. One is the value that you hold. Okay. And then how much you're living it. So for instance, you could be a young mother who. Your top value is scope. That's excitement, stimulation. You want to be Bianca Jagger on the back of a stallion going into Studio 54. That could be your top value. I met. It's not a huge top value for people. I know people with scope. I have very high Actually, and you got four children and your stay at home mom and your scope, your gap of how much you're living it is going to be like 100%. So do you want to talk about your gaps? Okay. And we'll talk about yours too. Okay. Okay. We'll, we'll go for it. All right, so with your Kim, we'll start with you. Eudaimonia is your top value. And actually there's a 40% gap, about 37%, which is basically says you're living your self care, self flourishing life, but you could be living it more and you would want that. Okay. Okay. Then when it comes to luminance, there's a bigger gap. We're almost at 42% which is. And as you said yourself said it, bring it.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Susie Welch]

Okay. Your family centrism is fine for you. You're, you're living your family centrism. There's no gap. Yeah. Family's in the right place for you.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Susie Welch]

Okay.

[Kim]

Constant voice.

[Susie Welch]

How could family centers are not being lived right. Voice, which is your fourth value, which is this desire to have self expression. It's all. You've got a 40 gap. I think there's something, there's a piece of you that says I could be more myself. I could more self express to. What do you, what, what do you think's going on?

[Kim]

Probably a few things. I think. One, obviously love everything I do with grandma, but we're very much a duo and like grandma's the more like front facing, like outspoken one. And I would love for everyone to know me a little bit more and like even personally, like find out not to be like who am I? But like what my personal brand is a little bit more and like lean into that.

[Susie Welch]

I think this is definitely showing up there. And I think, you know what, I think it's showing up and you should pay attention to it. I think these gaps are talking to us.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Susie Welch]

All right, so. And it's high enough that I would say, yeah, you got to pay attention to it. Then you've got affluence and you're comfortable with where you are.

[Grandma]

Okay.

[Susie Welch]

It's just not that high value to you. But whatever it is, you feel like you're on the right path with it. All right, you ready, Gail?

[Grandma]

I'm ready.

[Susie Welch]

Okay. With family centrism, no gap.

[Grandma]

Right.

[Susie Welch]

What you want, you got affluence. There's a big gap. I think that what this is suggesting is that you could. You desire more financial security at this point point in your life and it may Be for generational reasons, for legacy reasons, for what you want to leave people. Right. That could be going on. Or perhaps it could mean that there's a house you want to get and you got your eye on it.

[Grandma]

And I have so many houses. I don't want any more houses. I'm looking. I'm looking to get rid of things, not.

[Susie Welch]

Not get more voice. You're comfortable. No gap place. No gap and belonging. No gap. The biggest gap for you is on luminance, which is a. You don't want it and you got too much of it, but you're doing it for a very good cause. I'm looking to see if you've got any other. Okay, so you've got.

[Kim]

I was laughing because when you were like, yes, I think I'm a notable figure and people stop me on the street. No, I don't want anyone to know who I am. What is going on?

[Grandma]

Well, maybe I didn't answer. Maybe I didn't understand the question.

[Susie Welch]

Oh, no. But you know what? It says it exactly. Oh, okay. So listen, let's talk about where you have big. You have two big gaps that I didn't mention. They're not high values, but they're meaningful. And the first is with the value of radius. Radius is the value of wanting to change the world, of wanting to have an impact that's bigger than you, that is, you know, an impact that it's not. This is not about helping people. Like, you're not reaching for somebody's paper towels at the supermarket. This is about making a change in the world that others can see and feel. That's radius, the desire to change the world. And you've got a gap of 60%.

[Kim]

I had a feeling I want that and I am not doing it. Slash, don't have it. Right. That's the gap. Yeah. I think this is something I think about a lot. I'm like, do I have to get to a certain point of success, notoriety, whatever, to then be able to help people? And I'm not sure.

[Grandma]

But you're always helping people.

[Susie Welch]

Yes.

[Grandma]

You're on every charity thing and you're always giving of yourself. I think you answered the question with the wrong number.

[Kim]

Oh, no, I.

[Susie Welch]

True.

[Kim]

I believe that.

[Grandma]

Really?

[Kim]

Yeah. I never feel like I'm doing enough, like, to help. Not to help society, but also like to leave a mark permanently.

[Susie Welch]

People who have radius as a value, the average gap is 40%. So you're not alone in feeling that. You look, it's very hard to feel like I am changing the World. How many people can actually say that? Like, four people can say it. So it's not uncommon to have it. I would pay a little attention to it, though. Okay. And then the other place where you have a gap is on agency, and it's a pretty big one. Agency is the value. Like, I'm the boss. You know, you don't own me. You know, this kind of like, I run the show.

[Grandma]

I am. But you do.

[Kim]

No, but I don't.

[Grandma]

Who does?

[Kim]

So who runs the show? Send this straight to my therapist.

[Grandma]

I tell you, this is. This is feeding her therapist.

[Susie Welch]

No, I'm telling you, therapists are coming to us all the time saying, we'd like to have a class for therapists because the student people are taking it to their therapists. And it. I think. Look again. A bridge. A bridge to a conversation.

[Grandma]

Okay, so I gotta answer why you feel this way.

[Susie Welch]

I don't understand.

[Kim]

I. I feel like a lot of people in my life have opinions and want to tell me how to live my life.

[Grandma]

Oh, yeah. Well, all right. Oh, that's. That's true.

[Susie Welch]

That's.

[Grandma]

That wasn't.

[Kim]

Like.

[Susie Welch]

I don't have all these agency.

[Grandma]

Yeah.

[Susie Welch]

Yeah. Okay. I. This is what it's showing. It's showing that you do not feel like you are the. As much of a boss of the. Of decisions and their outcomes. This is very, very common. And it. It's something that you can. I'd like you to pay attention to this number because the language of the values bridge allows you in those situations to say, I feel like my agency is not being expressed here, or, I have a gap with my agency. This is an example of why I do. And it kind of gives you a way to talk about it. Okay. And it's interesting. You're having this conversation. You're saying, wait, I'm surprised to hear that. Right. And look, sometimes the test gives us permission to start a conversation with ourselves about something that we're feeling that we're not actually saying out loud.

[Grandma]

Well, now you know what you have to raise. I'm perfect.

[Susie Welch]

I am not.

[Grandma]

I have nothing.

[Kim]

You're perfect and you're not now.

[Grandma]

But now you want to be the boss, which you are in most cases.

[Kim]

With some work projects. But in life.

[Grandma]

Well, in life, it goes back and forth. You can't always be the boss. Somebody you know.

[Susie Welch]

Aren't you always the boss?

[Grandma]

I. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[Susie Welch]

But.

[Grandma]

But in. In. In concert with my husband. Okay, but basically, if I want something really bad enough. Yes.

[Susie Welch]

What do you think his top three values or any idea. His. His.

[Grandma]

His top three values would definitely be family. Family and then financial freedom.

[Susie Welch]

So influence.

[Grandma]

Yep. And I think giving. Giving back to the community.

[Susie Welch]

Okay. So probably that would be what we call non city, which is helping people. Or radio. Yeah, yeah. Sounds okay.

[Grandma]

And that's the way he lived his life.

[Susie Welch]

And, you know, your top two values overlapping.

[Grandma]

Yeah.

[Susie Welch]

Right. I think that it's time for, you know, for you to have him take the test. Okay. All right, look, the interesting thing is that you spend all of. I think the great gift of your. Of your. All your communications, your whole platform is that you allow people then to go and have conversations like this with the people around them. Like, I heard them talking about X, Y, and Z, you know, about relationships and about dating and about work and your ability to talk about values in a way that's actually incredibly loving and respectful without caving to the other person.

[Grandma]

Right.

[Susie Welch]

You're holding your gun.

[Grandma]

No question.

[Kim]

Or sometimes you do cave, and that's okay. Like, not every single time, but, like, that's also natural.

[Susie Welch]

Not.

[Grandma]

I've come to your side a few times.

[Kim]

A few times we will come to each other's side, but it's always first hearing each other's perspectives.

[Grandma]

Exactly.

[Susie Welch]

Right.

[Grandma]

Exactly. Exactly. We understand where we're both coming from. We don't necessarily agree on all the things that we do in today's world, but that's all right. I mean, you know, she's young, and she's starting.

[Susie Welch]

Right.

[Grandma]

And I'm not starting, so it's got to be. It should be new ideas and new thoughts. I'm proud of her to do that. That's it. I think it's great.

[Susie Welch]

I mean, we're just running back and forth on the bridge, you know, just like, a little bit closer to either side. We're running back and forth, and a lot of times meeting in the middle. And that is a beautiful thing that you do.

[Kim]

And I feel like there are so many synergies. Like, as you're talking, whenever people ask me, like, the point of why I'm doing this, it is to bridge the generation. So I love that you're saying that.

[Susie Welch]

Yes. I think it's exactly what you're doing. And bridges is what we got to be doing right now, building bridges. I love it. I also love your shoes, by the way. Thank you. All right, listen, this has been becoming you. We're so happy that you're here, and I'm so happy that you joined us. Come back again next week. Can't wait to see you and this show is produced by the amazing and fabulous Mikey Robley, Eliza Zinn, Issa Lamson, and Hallie Reiner. And if you liked what you heard, and I'm on my knees praying that you did, follow me, Uzi Welch, across all my platforms everywhere. Instagram and LinkedIn and even TikTok. Although somehow TikTok doesn't seem to work for me. And don't forget to leave a rating and a review below, because a lot of people have. And I love you, you people who have. It's not all my children, because there's just too many of them. I will see you next time. And until then, keep becoming.

[Kim]

Sam.