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You wake up one day and you've got a. You've got all the trappings of a beautiful house and a beautiful spouse. And you look around and you think, how did I get here? My God, what have I done? And what you've done is you've let the lid of the velvet coffin close on you. But it is tempting to stay in the velvet coffin. Velvet after all, right? So why is it that people stay inside the velvet coffin? Besides the fact that it's comfy velvet? And you know what? It's really sad. They're all good reasons. They're all good reasons. We're human beings, and we stay there because we love the people who own pieces of us. We don't go take that trip around the world because it would really bum out mom and dad. We don't take a job in the field. We really want to work in. In Seattle because it would mean that we wouldn't be around for the last few years of our grandmother's life. And then, actually, there's just. The other part of it is just fear that we can't accomplish what our dream is. Like, I could never get that degree. I couldn't afford it. I could never climb that mountain. It's too high for me. Even though I'd really want to. I'm not even gonna put my foot on the path to it. It would be too scary and too high risk and too humiliating if I didn't make it. I know, I know. That's a rather morbid way of starting this podcast. You must be thinking, where's our cheerful Susie girl? Like, where's our happy camper gone? Where's our case for hope girl? Well, I am here. I am so here. Hello, this is Susie Welch, and you are listening to Becoming youg, the podcast where each week we endeavor to help you answer the tiny, inconsequential little question, what should I do with my life on the podcast today? I wanna talk to you about this theory I developed years and years ago, which continues to really stand the test of time. I tell you, it really does. I call the velvet coffin. And once I explain what the velvet coffin is to you, we're going to hear a listener question from someone who is at that moment of deciding whether to lay back down or push the lid open and jump out. All right, so what is the velvet coffin? You know, it's pretty easy to visualize. It's too easy to visualize, isn't it? It's like a very beautiful, comfortable box that you can just lay in, but it's actually metaphorically a state of being where we succumb to life's demands and expectations to the point of surrendering our big dream of who we are and what we can do and should be. And I want you to know something. The velvet coffin is an unbelievably natural phenomenon. It happens because we've got. Though we love them kids and we've got debt, and we have spouses and who have demands and we have fear. We think, I could never do that dream of a life, or I'll do that dream of a life later when the kids go to school. And I remember when my kids were young and we had debt and we had a mortgage, and I used to say to people, there are a lot of stakeholders in SUSI Incorporated, and this was the way I had of describing all the people who owned my life so that I couldn't really live my life, my dream of a life, my. My desire, you know, in those days to get on the Today show and, you know, sit next to Katie Couric and really be a big broadcast journalist. I had too many stakeholders. And so my life was comfortable. That velvet coffin's comfortable. That's why we stay in it. And I was making a lot of accommodations. And maybe you are also. And then we just don't really realize it, but something's dying a piece of us, and the lid keeps closing closer and closer to us. And what it feels like when we're in it is sometimes just a vague dis. Ease. Okay? Not disease, but dis ease. A vague feeling like, okay, maybe there's something else. If I peeked over the edge, I might see something I really like. Sometimes we have jealousy of people living life on their own terms. And we think, well, they don't have all the things controlling them that I do. And mainly what we feel is a lot of noise in our head rationalizing what's going on, okay? If we are aware of our dream and aware of the life we really want to be living, and we've opted to stay in this very comfortable accommodation where a little piece of us dies every single day, we are talking ourselves into it. I can't do it because of the kids. I can't do it because of our debt. I can't do it because my spouse won't like it, or I can't do it because maybe it won't work, okay? And so the velvet coffin, I actually heard that term for the first time when I was super young. I was working at the Miami Herald. It must have been 1982. And there was a journalist in my newsroom who was spectacularly good. I mean, I was in awe of her. And I came home from an assignment one day and I got this whisper. You know, she's leaving, Geraldine's leaving. She's going up north. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. What? She's leaving. And I ran to her desk because I idolized her. And I said, what are you doing? And she said, susie, I can't stay here. It's not my dream of a life. I don't want to stay in the velvet coffin. I understood immediately what she meant. And actually, I mentioned it to Jack when I first met him, and he immediately understood it. And we started writing about it. And every single time we wrote about it, people said, how did you know about me? If you saw a little bit of yourself or someone you love and what I just described, I want you to know that you are not alone in this. So not alone. I once posted about the velvet coffin just recently on Instagram. And this is what people shared. I've been in mine for 15 years. I can't even see anything outside of it now. I had this, had the comfy enviable corporate job people would kill for in a big city. I called it my B life. Burned it all to the ground, still waiting for the come up. It's super scary, but you have to do it. I think I'm in my own velvet coffin because it allows me to receive other opportunities that I probably wouldn't get otherwise if I was purely following my passions and dreams. It is extremely conflicting. You know, it's like that song from the Talking Heads. I used to play this song in class at NYU Stern School of Business, where I'm a professor. And I used to play it until I noticed that my students looked at me like a dinosaur. But this is the song about the velvet coffin. And the Talking Heads were a great early punk group. And David Burns sings it in this great voice. I can't do it justice. But it goes sort of like this. The song is called Once in a Lifetime. And you may find yourself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, my God, what have I done? And it's just great. I wish we could play it for you, but we can't because of copyright laws. And actually, if you have a moment later today, go Google Once in a Lifetime by the Talking Heads. It's worth a listen or two or three. And I would sing it for you, but I have that kind of voice that people ask me not to sing in church. I mean, this is the most polite environment in the world, and they still ask me not to. So that was my bad rendition of it. But I hope you get the point that you wake up one day and you've got all the trappings of a beautiful house and a beautiful spouse. And you look around and you think, how did I get here? My God, what have I done? And what happened? And what you've done is you've let the lid of the velvet coffin close on you. But it is tempting to stay in the velvet coffin. It's velvet after all, right? So why is it that people stay inside the velvet coffin? Besides the fact that it's comfy velvet? And you know what? It's really sad. They're all good reasons. They're all good reasons. We're human beings and we stay there because we love the people who own pieces of us. We love our children, we love our spouses, we love our families. We. We don't go take that trip around the world because it would really bum out mom and dad. We don't take a job in the. We really want to work in. In Seattle because it would mean that we wouldn't be around for the last few years of our grandmother's life. And then actually, there's just. The other part of it is just fear that we can't accomplish what our dream is like. I could never get that degree. I couldn't afford it. I could never climb that mountain. It's too high for me. Even though I'd really want to. I'm not even going to put my foot on the path to it. It would be too scary and too high risk and too humiliating if I didn't make it. And so this is why this phenomenon continues, because it doesn't burn itself out. Because the reasons that we don't burst out and take both the heels of our hands and just push that lid open is that almost the consequences of doing that are as scary as the consequences of staying in and finding out that we lived the wrong life. And that is why we stay in an all too human way. I mean, sometimes staying in the velvet coffin is selfless. Or we tell ourselves it's selfless. Doing something that fulfills ourselves, something that meets our needs and our dreams, can feel really selfish, can feel really self absorbed. It takes courage sometimes to say, look, I gotta make it a little bit about me, or a lot a bit about me. And it's easier, you know, frankly, it's just easier to Stay put, because the reason why I call it the Velvet coffin is it's not uncomfortable. It's just not everything that you want. And we make accommodations, and you can stay in the velvet coffin because people who you love want you to stay there. And it can feel like, okay, I've done this my whole life. Why would I stop now? And with that, now let's turn to our listener Jimmy, who feels stuck inside the velvet coffin. But first, a little break at the end of the show. I am going to tell you one hate from something that happened this week and two loves. And I kind of dig this part of the show. I hope you'll stick around for that. All right, we are back. Let's hear from our listener, Jimmy.
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My name is Jimmy. I'm 27 years old, and I currently live in New York City. I was let go from an investment banking job a while ago. It wasn't the right fit for me, and it felt like a grueling challenge every day where I was burning out just to tread water. I've been trying very hard to find jobs in this space, but nothing seems to pan out. And it seems like it's because I'm not a right fit for this space. What I'm really interested in is the field of foreign policy and international relations. I tried very hard to apply for jobs in this space, but I don't have the official credentials necessary to get in, as they require a master's degree and a portfolio of published articles or research. I'm not sure if I can get a master's because I don't have a good transcript and I don't have any undergraduate research. I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I feel stuck in a career path that's not the right fit for me. And I feel unable to pivot to a career path that would be a right fit for me because it's more aligned with my interests and skills. In this situation, what do I do? I know what my values are, but it seems so out of reach now.
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As I said before with the Velvet Coffin, a couple of things are usually going on. I think what's going on in Jimmy's head is, okay, I had this career. It wasn't a right fit, but I'll be able to get another job in it. I can keep looking for that other job, and I can stay with some accommodations around the fact that it's not exactly the perfect job for me, but I can keep building there. But what's going on also in his mind is, like, there's this thing I'm really interested in foreign policy and international relations. I have a really strong interest in it. But to go into it, that's a big mound to climb. They want me to get different degrees. I've got to get experience. I've got to publish white papers. I man, that would take both hands shoving very hard to get out of what I'm in and to take this. And that's going to take time. It's going to take probably a lot of money. And so I can hear the kind of the fight going on in his head. I can. I can stuff my round peg into a square hole or whatever, or do I do something very daring and bold. That is the velvet coffin dialogue. And he's having it. But I want to say something a little bit maybe unexpected here. I want to say something a little tough lovey. I'm not so sure that you should pursue foreign policy and international relations. And I'm not so sure you shouldn't. Okay, I want to say this. There's no evidence about what you should be doing. I mean, maybe you're one of your inner voices, which is like, just stay in finance and tough it out and find the right job. And maybe that voice is right. And maybe the voice telling you to bust out and make a really big change, maybe that one's right. But you have no idea right now. You have no idea. You've got an interest in a different field, but you don't have the experience and the credentials to enter it. So frankly, your decision right now, which is a big one, a big one, is really based on just guessing. Well, I don't know, frankly, and here's the nub of it, I should you get out of the velvet coffin? My answer preliminarily is yes, because it sounds like you don't have the aptitudes strongly or the interest strongly to stay in the field you're in. Should you bust out to go towards international relations and foreign policy, I think you gotta find out. And, you know, funny thing, because that's what becoming you is all about. I mean, that's what we're designed to do. That's why we're sort of talking about this on this podcast. Becoming you is a methodology to help you conduct the research, to decide what you want to do with your life. Okay? And right now you're thinking, huh, do I bust out of this sort of, okay, B minus life to do something that's different? And my answer is probably yes. But is it international relations? You say you know what your values Are, I hope you do, and that would be great. Okay, but hold that thought. And you say you know what your aptitudes are, and I hope you do. But again, hold that thought. I think we can be pretty clear, you know, what your interests are. But here's some steps for you. Here's some steps that I would suggest. I think you need to investigate the values of the people who excel in that life you're interested in, in international relations and foreign policy. What are they like? What do they value? How do they spend their time? Is that a match? Okay, you say you know your values and great. And if you don't, go and take a values test and figure them out, but say you know them and that's. Congratulations on that. I think that people in certain professions have certain values. And let me talk to you about this just for one second. I just spoke to a person, a fabulous woman who attended one of the Becoming youg intensive workshops in New York City. She came to the three day and she did her area of transcendence, and she came up with a decision to change her whole life, blow up her whole life and become a journalist. And I was really startled to hear this. This is a gigantic left turn. And I was so glad we had some time together. And I said to her, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, because I was a journalist. And I said to her, what are your values? And they were affluence, affluence, voice and belonging. And I said, hey, you're strikeout on two, okay? You will have voice as a journalist, probably a little less than you'd like because you writing for a platform that tells you what you should be saying. But you're definitely not going to have affluence and you're not going to have belonging because to actually be a journalist is to be separate from other people. And you won't even have belonging with other journalists. They're feral competitors with each other. Take it from me, I live that life. And I said to her, look, I want to tell you something. Journalists are some of the funniest, most interesting, smartest people you'll ever know. I stayed in journalism as long as I did because I love, loved hanging around with journalists. But I wasn't mean enough to stay a journalist. You have to have a certain kind of feeling that other people are to be doubted and to be questioned. That's what you're doing as a journalist. And in this day and age, you're just not gonna make money as a journalist unless you're a columnist at the New York Times, who then writes books and gets big book deals. And I said to her, look, frankly, you could be really, really good at this and you could make 60k a year on your best year. And she like looked stunned. And I said, so if your number one value is affluence, think about what you're gonna get with and what are the values? Because the values of affluence is not what reporters have and journalists have, otherwise they wouldn't be in the field. Let's move on to aptitudes. I think you need to check out the aptitudes and really understand more about what aptitudes are required. It sounds like you're gonna have to go get a master's degree. It sounds like you're gonna have to start writing some papers. It sounds like you're gonna have to get some real skills and areas of expertise. Those are all acquirable in time. I think people who are in the field you want to go into, they have certain aptitudes. Maybe they're diagnostic problem solvers, maybe they're specialists. I think you've got to find out do you have the aptitudes that suggest success in this field? We know that you've got an interest, okay? And becoming. You's got three parts, values, aptitudes and interests. And in this case you've got that interest. But let's put that aside. It's not enough. And maybe you have a value to go into this space of achievement because the people in it are probably real intellectuals and probably there's a lot of value people are in this field on writing really smart white papers and getting on TV to talk about their ideas. What's your value of achievement? Where is it now? What about your value of affluence? How much money do people make in this field? Is it enough for you? I mean, you went into bagging first, so I'm going to think maybe you have some affluence going on. But there's a fit thing and you don't like the world you're in in banking and you already suspect it's not a fit for you. That's part one. But whether or not you leap out to go towards this interest of yours is another question. I think you gotta do a bunch of work lovingly because I'm talking about your life here and you're talking about your life here. And this is hard stuff. This is important stuff. I'm not saying this lightly. The good and the bad of becoming you is that there's just not like a light and Fluffy thing. Oh, let's just talk about your purpose now. Let's talk about the Chiefs. I would say we're talking about something that's so far away from entertainment in a way, what we do with our lives, we just have Jimmy. We just have this one wild and precious life. We just have one shot at it. And so the work I'm talking about is hard work, but it's so worth it because think about the stakes. And so I. I love you having this interest that is beckoning you. That's a good leading indicator. What I'm saying is it's not enough. It's not enough to go on. There's more data. And here's the thing, that data is accessible. You can get it with testing and with talking and with pushing what your values are. Are they a match for the field that you're going into? Once you know your values and your aptitude, you can sort of look out and say, what field? What kind of work is a fit with this? And I'm just going to make this up right now. Maybe you find out that your values and your aptitudes lead you much more towards, I don't know, being a teacher. Okay, Maybe that's where they lead you. And what is your interest remains kind of a hobby. I mean, I know this is going to sound really obscure, but my sister and I are completely obsessed with mysterious plane disappearances. And that's. We didn't go into that work, okay? We just are obsessed with it. It's our interest and we talk about it constantly. Okay? So I would say that let's find out that you're leaping in the right direction. I urge you to get out of the velvet coffin, but let's figure out which way you're going. Okay? And that's my thought for Jimmy. So I have a story, actually a happy story, about somebody who actually, I mean really was in the velvet coffin and blew up his life to get out of it. Let's call him Carl. It's not his name. So Carl was raised in an incredibly conventional household. His dad was in finance, his mom was a stay at home mom. And he grew up in suburban New Jersey. They were well to do. And he did everything that was expected of him. And one of the reasons he did everything expected of him was a terrible tragedy befell his family when he was in college, and that is that his older brother was killed in a car accident. And after that happened, if he had any ideas of going his own way or living his own life, they completely became suppressed because he was very concerned with his parents happiness. And so he became incredibly dutiful. And who knows what he really wanted or needed. He went to an Ivy League school. That's not mine, but I met him when I was in college, and he was still fresh off the death of his brother. And he was kind of a. He was a sweet, quiet. And at the time, I didn't know these words, but kind of a broken person. But he got fantastic grades. And he went right off to banking. He went to Wall street, and he went right onto the conveyor belt. A very successful banking trajectory. And he married somebody that I know, and they moved about one town over from his parents, again in suburban New Jersey. And he looked like he was completely on the path to reliving his father's life. Carl was doing everything to be sort of the bomb of the family by living this very dutiful life. And when I tell you that when he went to work, he looked like a soldier, I mean, that he, like, put on the suit and tie, he kind of had a grim expression on his face. And he got on the train, the commuter train with lots of other people doing the exact same thing. And he went to Wall street and he worked his way up the ladder. And I wish I could say that there was sort of a eureka. That was wonderful. And one day he just said, I've got to go to his parents and said, I've got to live my own life. But actually, it was kind of a very dark eureka, which is he got cancer. He got cancer. He got prostate cancer. And it was then he had this moment, I think it was when he was recovering, he had to have chemotherapy. And he had this moment where he thought, I am almost 50 years old and I've not lived one day of my life as my own person. And here's what he wanted to do. I mean, it must have come to him when he was recovering. He must have done an inventory of his values and his aptitudes. He was never a very good banker. Right. I mean, his trajectory of being promoted was slower than a lot of other people, which caused him a lot of frustration. And I remember him sort of being very buttoned down about it. And his father expressed consternation over it. So he got cancer. He was completely cured. He's still with us very happily. And he decided he wanted to be a farmer. A farmer. He said, I've always wanted to do this. I've been doing research on it. I know exactly what I want to grow. It was hemp. I want to. I Want to go to New Hampshire? I can get cheap land there. I mean, he'd been researching this on the down low for 20 something years. So in the middle of this, I have to say that one thing that did not survive this transformation and this pushing open of the lid was his wife. He had been married at that point 30 something years, and he blew it all up. His feeling was that his wife did not have the values to be a farmer. And frankly, she was like, no, thank you. That is not what I signed up for. And he felt that she really was invested in this suburban life. She had lots of friends. And anyway, the whole thing fell apart. Now, the good news is that they both went on to have. There was some rough five years. Okay. And sometimes busting your way out of the velvet coffin the longest, the longer you've been there, the harder it is because the lid's getting closer and closer to your nose, and you got to push harder and harder. And the family has repaired itself a lot. And the wife, who was devastated when it happened, ended up having a fantastic new relationship, as did he. He got out. Was there collateral damage? As I said, there really was. Okay. But think about the alternative. And that's almost where I want to leave you. Think about the alternative. If it hadn't happened, that lid would have closed on him and he would have lived and left us without having ever lived his life. And instead, he made a fourth quarter Hail Mary leap and he got out and he got up and he started farming. He still has the farm. And he. I'm sure it's been hard, okay, for him. He doesn't show it. He seems sort of euphoric. He seems kind of exquisitely alive. I think he gave up so many years of his life. There's always gonna be this kind of tinge of sadness about him because I think he feels he had kind of lost 30 years of his life. But that's better than losing the whole thing, isn't it? And, you know, I myself, I think I was much earlier along in my career when I said, no, no, no, reporting's not for me. It doesn't match my values. It matched my aptitudes, and it did match my interest, but it was really so in conflict with my values, and I got out of it. And the earlier you do it, the better. Okay. But anytime you do it is good. We have reached my favorite part at the end of the podcast where I talk about my two loves and a hate. I always start with the hate to get out of the way. Well, I was In a. Just an absolute funk. Beyond funks. This morning, I was feeling extremely tragic. I wrote my children and said, please feel sad for me because I spoke to my thesis advisors, my PhD thesis, which I'm telling you, one day I'm going to stop talking about it, but it's not yet. And guess what? They read version five of my thesis, and they told me I had to rewrite it again. And they had a great reason. It was about moving part of the thesis to the front and part to the back and adding an idea that's very important and talking a little bit more, maybe 2,000 more words about my methodology. In the moment, I hated the extra work. And I. I think they were expecting me to kind of lose my shit, to be honest. And they kept on looking at me because I was smiling at them. And I said to them, hey, you know, I've written six books, and if you think I haven't been told to rewrite before, you'd be wrong. And I'm just gonna do this. I'm committed to, and I'm gonna do it. But in the moment, I was very sad, and I had a pity party for Susie briefly. And then when we got off the phone, I had a massive pity party. And I think that, once again, the lesson is that everything good is hard. And I thought I was gonna have a really fun weekend coming up, but I'm not. So I hate it. And. Because I want to get out into the woods with my dogs, where I hear myself think. But I do have a very high value of achievement, and I have a high value of radius, which is changing the world. And I think, I pray that my work does that. And so, gosh darn it, I'm gonna have to operationalize my hate this weekend. All right? That's the hate. Eventually, I'm gonna get the freaking PhD if it kills me. All right? So, love, love, love. Last night, I went to the winter show in New York City. This has been going on for, I don't know, decades. Two or three times a year, art galleries from around the world come up, and they all set up at the same time in the army, the old military base in New York City. And you can just go and stroll as if every great art gallery in the world is all in one gigantic building. And I went. It's so much fun. I mean, you just. You just eat it alive with your eyes, okay? People actually buy stuff there. I am not among them, but they do. It's incredible. And I went with a friend who's an artist He's a modern artist and he also appreciated it. I said to him we'd be swanky tonight because he's a starving artist. So he was thrilled to be there and it was just such fun to see art with an artist. Highly recommend. Anyway, while we were walking through the different galleries, we came upon this unbelievably, unbelievably beautiful sculpture of a swan. Of a swan. It was gorgeous. And I just stared at it and I was overcome by it. And it was just a beautiful sculpture. It was made out of stoneware and painted beautifully. And he said, what is with you? Why are you staring at it? And I told him the story, he did not know it, of Susie the swan, which for those of you who've just joined becoming you very briefly, I will recount Susie the Swan. I have a house in the countryside. It has a pond on it. And one day after my husband passed away, a single swan appeared. And as my friend said to me, but wait, swans mate for life. And I said, that's right. That's why the single swan landing on my pond after my husband died was so powerful. And she lived there and we became good friends. I named her Susie, which freaked out my children and kind of disturbed them. And I would go out to, to the pond and say, hello, Susie, hello. And she would swim right up to me. And then when I would walk around the pond with my dogs, she would follow along in the water and I fell in love with this bird and I over identified with her, as my children would have told you. And then on 4th of July last year, as the fireworks were going off in all the towns around us, I woke up the next morning and Susie had fled. I mean, just she was scared away by the fireworks and she never came back. And so I had been grappling with the absence of, of Susie the swan. And therefore, when I was at the art show last night and I saw this swan, I was like, look, look, it's a swan. And here's the kicker. My friend said this insane thing to me, crazy, insane thing. He said, I don't think you're a swan, Susie. I think you're a phoenix. So it kind of made me cry, but made me cry really happy tears because I thought that's true, I was a swan. And now I am building my new life. I'm building it here with you. I'm becoming you. And I thank you for that. And I. And I loved him seeing me that way. And so it made me super happy. So I love Susie Swan. I still hope she comes back. But this idea that maybe a phoenix might be my bird was making me very happy and I love that. Okay, one last love really quickly. My book cover is finally out. It's been, the book's not out out, but the book cover is done. It's a, it's a, it's really a labor of love to do a book cover and it actually has my picture on it and I'm the most self critical person in the world and I actually love, love, love the COVID So go to my website or follow me on Instagram or sign up for my newsletter so you can see the COVID And you know what, it would mean so much to me if you told me what you thought of it. I. I'm digging it. I love it. I'd love to hear what you think of it. It really, it's orange by the way, so I'm really psyched about that. You know what it means? It means the book's done and I'm done writing that book, Becoming youg. It comes out in May, but for me, my work with it is done and the next piece of work is you reading it. I hope someday. Thank you for being with me. This Is Becoming youg. Becoming youg is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom of Magnificent Noise. Our production series staff includes Muskan Nagpal, Kristen Muller, with help from Elisa Zinn, Hallie Reiner, Maddie Paul and Tanya Joji. I'm your host, Susie Welch and this is becoming you.