Behind the Bastards: "The Men Who Might Have Killed Us All" (Part Five) – Episode Summary
Podcast by Cool Zone Media/iHeartPodcasts | Host: Bobby Finger | Guest: Margaret Killjoy | December 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into the terrifying, often absurd history of the U.S. nuclear command-and-control system during the Cold War—especially the creation and near-miss disasters of the Minuteman missile system and Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP). Host Bobby Finger and guest Margaret Killjoy unpack how technical failures, bureaucratic inertia, and deeply flawed military thinking put civilization at risk, highlighting the ordinary, disturbingly fallible people behind doomsday machines that could have annihilated humanity.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Minuteman Missile Launch System: Built for Apocalypse

• John Rubel’s Warnings (03:27–08:12)
  Bobby recounts John Rubel, a defense official in 1959-60, whose questions about how the Minuteman ICBMs might be (accidentally) launched went largely ignored by gung-ho Air Force brass.

  • The system enabled four men in a bunker to launch 50 nuclear missiles—no way to interrupt after launch.
  • Launch modes: "salvo" (all at once) vs. "ripple" (one after another)—neither provided meaningful human oversight.
  • Notable Quote:
    "These are like science guys who are, you know, scared of nuclear holocaust... and they're like, what, four guys launch 50 missiles with no one getting in the way, really?" (Bobby, 05:20)

• Unintended Consequences and Design Flaws (12:07–14:02)

  • The pulse-based trigger design meant a simple power outage could potentially launch all 50 missiles by accident.
  • Retrofits cost hundreds of millions, only undertaken after intense bureaucratic knocking from Rubel and his allies.

• Air Force Attitude Toward Civilian Control

  • High-ranking generals (e.g., Curtis LeMay) openly believed only military "professionals" should control nuclear arms, marginalizing the President’s authority:
    • Notable Quote:
      "All we need [the President] for is to tell us that there is a war. We are professional soldiers. We'll take care of the rest." (LeMay, as recalled by Rubel, 10:00)

Automated Apocalypse: Near-Misses and Systemic Recklessness

• Failures in Redundancy/Automation Logic (19:22–21:23)
  • Proposed tying early warning radars directly to the nuclear launch button—later mirrored by similar Soviet "Dead Hand" system.
  • Rubel’s fight prevents the U.S. from fully automating doomsday, but only by the narrowest margin.
  • Memorable Moment:
    Cutter, an Air Force general, insists:
    "If we don't have an automatic doomsday device, we might as well surrender now." (20:17)

The Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP): Planning Global Genocide

• SIOP: One Switch, Half a Billion Dead (25:31–32:00)
  • SIOP 62—crafted deliberately to deny civilian leaders the option for anything but "all or nothing" nuclear war.
  • PowerPoint-style presentations showed deaths of 500–600 million, with nonchalance toward collateral casualties.
    • Memorable Quote:
      "Hope you don't got family [in Albania], ‘cause again, we nuke them right away because of a radar station." (Bobby, 28:41)
  • Hostility to limiting civilian deaths; planning for casualties in China regardless of their war involvement.
    • Margaret:
      "Hope none of you have any relatives in Albania..." (paraphrasing Power)

A Glimpse of Conscience: General David M. Shoup

• The Lone Dissent (38:08–38:44)
  • Only General Shoup, Medal of Honor recipient and USMC Commandant, voices moral opposition:
    • Notable Quote:
      "Any plan that murders 300 million Chinese when it might not even be their war is not a good plan. That is not the American way." (Shoup, 38:06)

Modern Civilian Command and the Limits of Safety

• Shifting Control Toward Presidents—A Mixed Blessing (43:28–47:15)

  • Kennedy, appalled by "brass hats" itching for apocalypse, brings nukes under tighter presidential control—resulting in the "nuclear football" system.
  • But the system still leaves catastrophic power in the hands of a lone, possibly uninformed individual.

• Presidential Burden & the `Suicide or Surrender’ Dilemma (40:21–42:38)

  • Quoting Henry Kissinger:
    "These plans offered the President just one choice, suicide or surrender, holocaust or humiliation." (Bobby, 40:20)
  • Even today, no robust technical auditing of launch systems exists.

Cultural & Systemic Critique

• Bureaucratic Madness and Cold War Groupthink (53:57–56:02)
  • The SIOP’s authors, fixated on theoretical "winning," equate effectiveness with body counts, routinely mistaking horror for strategy.
  • Nukes become the only weapon that matches their worldview—when denied, they're lost.
    • Margaret:
      "They only have the one strategy and it only works if you use nukes." (paraphrased, 56:02)

Memorable Quotes & Moments (by Timestamp)

• On Casual Morality:
  “They talk about the President exercising command and control. What is the president? ... A politician. What does the politician know about war? Who needs a president if there’s a war? Nobody.”
  — Curtis LeMay, recounted by Rubel (10:00)

• On Flawed Design:
  "This thing could have started launching 50 missiles if there was a power outage or a couple of power outages."
  — Bobby Finger (12:54)

• On Automated Madness:
  "If we're not just going to have an automatic doomsday device that goes off if a radar has an hallucination... let’s just surrender now."
  — Gen. Cutter (20:17)

• On Ethical Paralysis:
  "For some reason, this is one of the most frightening moments of the Cold War to me... [he realizes] 'I'm like some junior SS guy sitting in the back of the Wannsee Conference, too scared to speak up and ruin my career. Fuck. I'm a Nazi fuck.'"
  — Bobby paraphrasing Rubel (32:04)

• On the One True Hero:
  "Any plan that murders 300 million Chinese when it might not even be their war is not a good plan. That’s not the American way."
  — Gen. David M. Shoup (38:08)

• On the Nuclear Football's False Comfort:
  “I don’t think Donald Trump is less suited to make that call than any other president… no one will do a good job if they are put in that situation.”
  — Bobby (63:34)

• On Presidential Burden:
  "He will then be told that he has between three and six minutes to decide to launch a world killing salvo..."
  — Bobby (65:53)

• On the Human Condition:
  “A melancholy procession from stones to atoms, a predestined progress toward the end times, the inevitable rise of malign leaders over compliant masses.”
  — Rubel (quoted by Bobby, 68:13)

Reflections on Solutions, Futility & the Human Factor

• Current System
  Still based on "launch on warning" with only minutes for the President to decide, no real fail-safes, and new AI/automation risks emerging.

  • "That's what scares me more than like a death computer... they're already integrating different machine learning tools into the radar systems..." (Bobby, 60:08)

• On Making Nukes a Voting Issue
  The hosts urge listeners to see nuclear command and control reform as urgent as climate change:
  "Maybe this should be like a voting issue that people talk about... this is potentially a much more thorough destruction of the biosphere than climate change will bring, even quicker." (Bobby, 69:31)

Notable Moments of Dark Humor

• "It's the Taurus firearms of nuclear missiles. It's nuts.” (14:08)
• “Hope you don't got family in Albania, ‘cause again, we nuke them right away..." (28:41)
• “You're like, tormented, come on man, don't fuck with us. A lot of people's jobs are on the line building the Torment Nexus.” (referring to bureaucratic madness, 16:48)

Conclusion

The episode closes with a sobering reminder: The nuclear command system remains deeply flawed, and ordinary, stubborn, sometimes reckless men have shaped it. The world is still closer than anyone would wish to nuclear annihilation—and the only thing that has changed is who holds the key, not the nature of risk. Activism, transparency, and system redesign are urgently needed. As Bobby says, “We could change this. It doesn't have to be this way.” (68:28)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Minuteman Doomsday Design & Rubel’s Fight: 03:27–16:38
• Launch Automation & Redundant Systems: 19:22–21:32
• SIOP and Casualty Planning: 25:31–32:00
• General Shoup's Dissent: 38:08–39:19
• Transition to Presidential Command: 43:28–47:15
• Failures of Strategic Bombing (Vietnam): 54:17–56:45
• Modern Risks & Call for Awareness: 60:08–69:40

Recommended Reading (from Bobby Finger)

• Annie Jacobson’s "Nuclear War: A Scenario"
• "15 Minutes"
• "Command and Control"

Tone

Both hosts employ dark humor, sarcasm, and deep skepticism, contextualized with sympathy for the moral complexity and terror faced by the few genuine dissenters amid widespread institutional madness.

This summary is intended to provide the key information, memorable moments, and urgent ethical issues discussed in the episode, serving as a detailed guide for anyone wishing to understand the profound human and technical failures that nearly—and still might—destroy us all.