Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles

Summary

Behind the Bastards: Part One - In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles

Hosted by Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

Release Date: March 4, 2025

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Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode opens with Ed Zitron welcoming listeners to "Behind the Bastards," a podcast dedicated to exploring the lives of history's most notorious figures. Ed introduces the episode's focus on Versailles, aiming to delve deeper into the culture and subcultures of French nobility during the reign of Louis XIV, also known as the Sun King.

The Origins of Versailles and Louis XIV's Early Reign

Ed Zitron sets the historical context, highlighting Louis XIV's ambition and the political climate that necessitated the creation of Versailles. He remarks,

“Louis XIV, our boy, was born in September of 1638... He was a mama's boy... Louis VIII dies, like, immediately after his son is born...” ([07:37])

Louis XIV inherited a France financially drained by the Thirty Years' War, prompting his regent, Cardinal Mazarin, to institute new taxes. This centralized taxation system ignited tensions between the monarchy and the nobility, leading to the Fronde—a series of civil wars.

Construction of Versailles: Ambition and Human Cost

Louis XIV's response to the Fronde was the construction of Versailles, intended both as a symbol of his absolute power and a means to control the nobility by keeping them close. Ed describes Versailles as a blend of a “Pentagon and the White House with a frat house and a WeWork” ([43:25]).

“Building went on from dawn to dusk, with up to 36,000 people working in the gardens in dire and dangerous conditions... When half a dozen men were crushed in an accident, one grieving mother approached Louis to request her son's body. He had her imprisoned.” ([44:06])

The construction was an immense undertaking, consuming half of France's GDP and resulting in significant human suffering as laborers died under harsh conditions.

Social Control and Etiquette at Versailles

Versailles was not just a palace but a meticulously controlled environment designed to suppress the nobility's power. Ed explains how Louis XIV imposed intricate rules of etiquette to keep nobles preoccupied with social maneuvering rather than political dissent.

“Every royal house... have some version of [etiquette rules], but they're not as intricate as they become in Versailles... it's as if their whole life is a high school and the king is the coolest kid.” ([55:03])

These elaborate social protocols ensured that nobles spent their time maintaining appearances and navigating courtly relations, effectively neutralizing potential rebellions.

Economic Impacts: Centralization and Luxury

The construction of Versailles led to significant economic transformations in France. Jean-Baptiste Colbert, Louis XIV's finance minister, leveraged Versailles to boost French exports by promoting luxury goods.

“Factories were set up to supply linen, lace, silk, glass, carpets, jewelry, inlaid furniture... The chateau became a shop window, a permanent exhibition of French goods.” ([61:34])

This centralized economic strategy not only showcased French craftsmanship but also tied the nobility's wealth directly to the prosperity of Versailles, reinforcing the monarchy's control over both the economy and the aristocracy.

Shadow Economy: Magic and Influence

Beyond the opulence, Versailles fostered a shadow economy centered around magic and influence. Nobles sought favor with the king through magical means, believing that mysticism could secure their positions.

“Madame Voisin knew a priest who was willing to help... 'Let the King love me now... Let the Queen be sterile...'" ([80:10])

This belief in magic and the associated underground practices further entrenched the nobility's dependence on the king, as they sought any advantage to gain his favor amidst the rigid social structures.

Conclusion and Summary

Ed Zitron concludes by emphasizing Versailles as both a marvel of architecture and a tool of absolute monarchy. The palace not only symbolized Louis XIV's power but also served as a mechanism to control and suppress the nobility, ensuring the monarchy's dominance.

“Louis XIV... he becomes one of the most absolute monarchs the world has ever seen. 'L'État, c'est moi,' the state, that's me.” ([70:42])

Versailles stood as a testament to Louis XIV's relentless pursuit of power and control, laying the groundwork for the eventual French Revolution by exacerbating the divide between the monarchy and the common people.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ed Zitron ([07:37]): “Louis XIV... He is a... overthrown his family... the Habsburgs...”
• Ed Zitron ([43:25]): “Versailles and a WeWork. It's all of those things at once.”
• Maria Tremarki ([53:10]): “So you have to remember who is allowed to hand the shirt.”

Note: Timestamps correspond to the original transcript for reference.

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This episode of "Behind the Bastards" offers a comprehensive exploration of Versailles under Louis XIV, highlighting the intricate balance of power, economic strategy, and social control that defined one of history's most opulent yet oppressive palaces.

Transcript

[Sophie Lichterman]

Call Zone Media.

[Ed Zitron]

Welcome back to behind the Bastards, a podcast about terrible people. You know, we've got a great episode, a couple of episodes for you this week with Ed Zitron of Better Offline. Ed, how you doing, buddy?

[Maria Tremarki]

I'm doing fantastically. Love being here.

[Ed Zitron]

I'd be doing better, but, you know, we have something sad to talk about today, Ed. We're gonna give a little moment of silence for 14 FDA agents who were trying to do their job, but unfortunately, they got between Sophie and her HGH ring. And that's just never a safe thing to do. Also back on the show is Sophie Lichterman, who is recovering south of the border in a hidden steadfast. Sophie, why did those men need to die?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Why is that the COVID story you gave me? I feel like you could have done something so much cooler.

[Ed Zitron]

I think that's pretty cool. Shooting it out with the FDA and going on the run to Mexico. Ring. Yeah. And HGH ring. Well, I didn't want to, like, accuse you of selling hard drugs.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I mean, sure.

[Ed Zitron]

And everybody loves. Loves hgh. At least Joe Rogan loves hgh. Sophie, maybe you could get on his show.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Is that the. I mean, I've been sent some very fascinating messages. Is that the only reason you told people I was out?

[Ed Zitron]

I just told people you'd shout it out with the FDA and you were on the run.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I mean, I kind of wish.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, yeah. It would be more fun. But, you know, you're back. You're healing.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

You're feeling. Feeling a little better.

[Sophie Lichterman]

A little. I mean, surgery sucks. Don't have surgery unless you absolutely need it. Is my recovery surgery sucks.

[Ed Zitron]

And let's. Let's talk for a second here. Doctors are not giving out enough painkillers. You should have gotten Dilaudid for what you went through, and they just gave you a little bit of codone. I'm livid on your behalf.

[Sophie Lichterman]

The amount of times you sent me that in writing is so funny.

[Ed Zitron]

Ed, welcome again to the show.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Can I. I just have one more thing to say.

[Ed Zitron]

Sure.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I'm so sorry for anything that happened without my supervision. I'm so sorry.

[Ed Zitron]

It was fine. It was fine. I was on my best behavior. I'm not gonna be today even.

[Maria Tremarki]

Listen, and I know that's not true.

[Ed Zitron]

Today we're going to give really out of pocket, you know, because I've got a subject that I could only have brought a British guest on for, and that subject is France. Right. Okay. Specifically. Specifically, I wanted to talk about the culture of Versailles, the subculture of the nobility at Versailles that started in the reign of Louis xiv, the Sun King, and led right up to the French Revolution. And I wanted to talk about this because, Ed, I'm sure you've heard a little about this. We've caught a little case of the oligarchy here in the United States.

[Maria Tremarki]

I have been hearing this.

[Ed Zitron]

We've all been hearing this. Yes. Unless you're listening to this years after the fact. And we did it. Joe, again. Oh, you are probably listening to this on a day where you have slightly fewer rights and freedoms than you had a few days earlier, right?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yes.

[Ed Zitron]

Cause that's been the vibe of the last couple of weeks.

[Maria Tremarki]

And as someone who looks and sounds like both Beavis and Butthead knows my Social Security number.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. The day I started typing out this episode, Feb. 19, 2025, President Trump made a very funny joke describing himself as a king. And this set me to thinking about the Trump rally I attended in 2016 in which I met a British man who was a naturalized US Citizen who told me that he supported a Trump dynasty ruling the United States from here on out. He wanted Trump Jr. To take over after his dad finished his terms. And I was like, man, you are in the wrong country. You lived in the country that did that. Yeah, I think I do this here.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I think I talked to that same guy at last. Rnc.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, good. Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

He was also British. And I also looked at him like, he was like, yeah, well, I mean, there's many of them. You know, you go doggy and trumps. Yeah. And he's like, and what about that baron? And I'm like, sir, what the fuck about that Barrett?

[Ed Zitron]

He could. Yeah, he could probably hoop. You do have to give that to him. He's got at least potential, although we don't. I don't think he's very fast. Anyway. Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke. And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season, we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching. And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Grace]

Need the latest crime news fast. Whether it's the latest developments in a high profile case or urgent alerts about missing persons, Crime alert, hourly update delivers the News you need to know as it happens.

[Holly Fry]

I'm Nancy Grace, and with our team of investigative reporters and experts, we bring you the top crime headlines you need to know every hour on the hour.

[Nancy Grace]

Listen to Crime Alert, hourly Update on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Zitron]

When you've got the guy in charge of your country talking about being a king and you've got a group of the wealthiest people talking openly about ending voting rights and solidifying themselves as a permanent aristocracy, you know, you're in a situation where it's not unreasonable to start looking at other, quote, unquote, permanent aristocracies in history and what happened to them. Right. And so that's why I wanted to talk about Versailles this week. Right. You know, this is a case where the. The bastard is this system. This. This. This world of the nobility, where they were cloistered away from the rest of the country deliberately for some interesting reasons. And, like, what happened to their brains as a result of that and kind of why it all came cr. Right. This is not going to be. Obviously, Mike Duncan's done the. The much more full version of, like, why the French Revolution happened. This is not. These aren't episodes about the French Revolution. These are specifically episodes about how the court at Versailles came into being. Why. How it kind of how it deranged the people who lived there and how that aspect of things contributed to the revolution. So largely, we're talking about what's wrong with French people. Yeah, yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Eight or nine episodes.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. Ed, what do you know about Versailles?

[Maria Tremarki]

Oh, alarmingly little. Just the Treaty of Versailles and how well that went.

[Ed Zitron]

That did go really well. Really well. There were a couple of those treaties, and they all went well, but. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a. Probably the best popular culture touchstone on this recently would be that 2006 Sofia Coppola movie about Marie Antoinette.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Sure. And everybody knows about, you know, the garden.

[Ed Zitron]

I actually don't know about the garden.

[Sophie Lichterman]

The garden of Versailles.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, I mean, you mean the literal garden. I thought you were talking about a movie called the Garden. No. Yes. There's a nice garden in Versailles. Yes.

[Sophie Lichterman]

That is the borderline, like, basic knowledge that everybody has.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Maria Tremarki]

Which is why I knew about it.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. Nice garden, big palace. But I think that. Okay, I'm glad that's what you know, because there's a lot more there. The story of Versailles is the story of, among other things, the invention of, like, the modern centralized administrative state just done in kind of the craziest way imaginable. And in order to tell that story, we've got to start with a guy who is probably close to, you know, one of the contenders for, like, best at being a king, Just on a technical level of anybody who was ever a king. Louis xiv, better known as the Sun King because he had a very high opinion of himself, but which was somewhat justified. This is the guy who is the longest reigning king in human history. Like, nobody, nobody was king for longer. Probably he spent 72 years on the throne, which is nuts. Like an objectively crazy amount of time to do any job.

[Maria Tremarki]

Owl Davis of Kings just, I do.

[Ed Zitron]

Think wretched and crazy as a podcaster. He was wretched and crazy at the Wonderful. Perfect. He's so wretched and crazy. Oh, my God, his ass is rotting. That's what kills him. It's great.

[Maria Tremarki]

He dies from his bum rot.

[Ed Zitron]

Dies from ass rot. Yes, he sure does. And, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, this story's got it all, baby. So Louis xiv, all of the French kings in this period are Louis, right? They will be referred to kind of casually by some historians as the Louis. Right. Because they're kind of interchangeable with the exception of the Sun King in some ways where you're just talking about, like, and then this Louis and that. Yeah. So Louis XIV, our boy, was born in September of 1638 to Anne of Austria. And Louis VIII, his mom, was shockingly old to give birth at the time. She's like middle aged and had had four stillbirths before him. So the fact that he came out not just alive but very healthy was regarded as a miracle and a good sign. Right. He would grow up to be a mama's boy. So Louis VIII dies, like, immediately after his son is born. And he had been very clear in his last days that Anne, his wife, should not govern after his death. This is a thing in a lot of other European countries, like in many European countries, like in Russia, right. Women can reign, you know, like the queen. If things work out that way, the queen can be the regent. She can run shit. Right, Right. That is not the case in France. They do not allow that in this period in France. And Louis VIII is like, Anne should not govern after my death. And so he creates a regency council to manage things until Louis XIV is old enough to run France on his own. And part of why he does this is that Anne is not French. Right. She's Anne of Austria. Now, that's also not a good description of who she was because you would expect, given that her name is Anne of Austria. You would expect her to be from Austria, Right, Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

Where is she from?

[Ed Zitron]

Absolutely. Oh, Ed, of course she's not from Austria. She's from Spain. Obviously, you call Anne of Austria the Austria. The woman from Spain. Yes. She's the Queen of Navarre. The whole Austria thing in her name has nothing to do with geography. It's purely a result of the fact that she is a Habsburg. Right. There's a branch of the family who are Spanish. Right? Yeah. And that. That's why she's Anne of Austria, because the Habsburgs are also the house of Austria. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, there's so many Habsburgs. Oh, we're going to be talking about Habsburg jaws later in this story. Don't worry, buddy. Don't worry. There's. There's Habsburgs all throughout this.

[Maria Tremarki]

That makes me so happy.

[Ed Zitron]

Makes me. Does it make you Habsburg? Habsburg, hopefully.

[Maria Tremarki]

Drop me a few times as a.

[Ed Zitron]

Baby to do that, then. Then your blood wouldn't clot. Actually, I don't think that was a Habsburg problem. That's.

[Maria Tremarki]

Anyway, I truly don't actually know. I just know that they all have sex together.

[Ed Zitron]

They all did have. There's a lot of people fucking their cousins in this story. That's just how royalty is. So from age 4 on, which is like, when his dad dies, Louis XIV's earliest memories would have been of political turmoil between his mother and her neighbor native country. Because, again, the fact that she's a Habsburg means that the French people don't trust her. They're like, well, she's obviously going to be more loyal to Spain and to Austria than she is to France. This is a constant problem because you are always bringing in nobles from other houses in Europe to, like, marry the king. And there's always this kind of like, well, then they can't possibly put France first. Right, right. And there had just been a war between, you know, as there is constantly in this period between France and Spain. So there's a lot of reasons why people don't trust Anne, and that's going to have a big influence on him. Is this, like, distrust for his mom by the French people now? Because we're talking about European nobility this week. I really need to emphasize everything that I say, explain about these people is going to sound ridiculous. This whole culture that has come up around the nobility is nonsense. By this period. They've just been in power for too long and the system is crazy. Louie is going to make it a lot crazier. But I do think it's worth kind of emphasizing that. So the next time you read that, our grand vizier Elon Musk has appointed a man named Big Balls to control all of our personal tax data. Remember that people in power have always been irritating dipshits. Right? That's not unique to the United States. That's just. That's just something that comes with giving small groups of people all of the power. Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

But traditionally we did it in the past.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, yes. And now we're doing it in the future.

[Maria Tremarki]

Yeah. Good stuff.

[Ed Zitron]

Great stuff. So Anne actually had gotten. His mom had gotten confined to house arrest for passing military secrets to her dad at one point. But she does this thing that is very common when she becomes the queen regent, she exiles a bunch of her own supporters and kind of betrays her family to run France. Right. She. She chooses to go for France. And this was a pragmatic move because once her husband died, her position was not really stable. Now, most of the big decisions made for France in this period are not made by Anne. They're made by a guy that Anna points to rule in her son's stead. And that guy's name is Cardinal Mazari. And he is one of these, like, extremely powerful, like non royal ruler, like, not. He's not like a king, but he's kind of governing France for a period of time here. By the time the child King Louis XIV is 8 or 9 years old, the 30 years war, which is this war that his dad had spent his life fighting, is drawing to a close. And given the fact that it was a 30 years war, it had been monstrously expensive and kind of a financial disaster for Craig. France, so near the end of it, Cardinal Mazarin is anxious to keep the army funded until everything is locked down about the peace treaty. And since the crown had no more money after 30 years of war, this meant that they had to institute new taxes. Now, France is a semi feudal society at this point. It is less feudal than basically all of the rest of Europe. In Germany, there are still serfs, right? As in, like, the common people are literally like bonded to the land. Like they're essentially a kind of slave. They can't leave without the permission of the landowner. Right. Serfs are really not much of a thing in France in the period that we're talking about. And they're basically going extinct. Right. France has modernized to that extent. And in fact, they're kind of. The country is sort of in the process of becoming less of a feudal state and more of kind of like a hybrid, like modernized semi feudal state. Right. Like you still have a nobility. The nobility are. Most are going in this period are going from like literally governing directly, where you've got this duke and he controls this area, to you've got this duke and he doesn't govern anything directly, but he does have the right to. To collect taxes in this certain area or to collect duties in this industry or whatever. And. Right. That's his privilege as the duke. Right. But he's not doing the governing. We have like, professionals who are. Are doing the actual governing in this region or whatever. Now during the Thirty Years War, again, the only way that they can pay for this is by increasing taxes. And these, these taxes don't primarily hit the nobility. One of the nobility's privileges that they maintain is an exemption from the taxes paid by peasants and the bourgeoisie. Right. Like, basically, you call them the small business owners of France. Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

So what you're suggesting is that the poorer people pay more and the richer people have found a way around taxes somehow.

[Ed Zitron]

That's. That's a big part. It's. Yes, but there's a caveat to that, which is the peasants are poor people and they are paying taxes. The bourgeoisie are often wealthier than the nobles. Right, but they're not nobles. These are guys who start businesses who are running trade and stuff for France. Some of them are extremely wealthy and they are also paying taxes and they're really not happy about that. Right, right. But the nobility get a big exemption from taxes in this period. Right. One of the conflicts that's going to like, increasingly be a problem up to the Revolution is the bourgeoisie being like, well, why are we paying taxes and these people are exempt? Right. Well, we're not thrilled about that. So this does mean that regular French people are largely being kind of brutalized by the cost of the war against the Habsburgs of Spain. The job of approving new taxes, like, the king will say, I want this tax, but it has to be approved by the parliaments. Now, to you and I, coming out of the English tradition, parliament means like essentially a governing body, sort of like a congress is. Right, right. That's not really what a parliament is in France. Parliaments in France are courts. Right. They're court systems. Like the Parliament of Paris is a court system in Paris. And you have a bunch of judges who are nobles who are. Own their seat as a judge. Like that judgeship is the personal hereditary property of a noble who is one of these members of the parliament. And the parliaments have a lot of judges and clerks and whatnot. But these are like court systems, when we talk about parliaments. But it is their job to approve new taxes. And this is kind of one of the ways in which the French state has started to modernize in this period. Right. It's not just this duke controls this area and he takes taxes. We've got this professional legal system. Right. That is responsible for approving these things. And a lot of conflicts with the crown are going to be the parliament trying to protect its power. Right. When the king wants to do stuff directly anyway, this causes issues because it makes the fact that the king wants these new taxes on the common people and the bourgeoisie. And the parliament has to approve them. Right. You've got these parliaments and royal courts that have to approve the taxes. And they don't want to. They don't want to. Not because they, like, love the peasantry and think that it's unfair. They don't want to because the peasantry riots over new taxes.

[Maria Tremarki]

I was gonna say not dying.

[Ed Zitron]

Right. And the parliament needing to approve them. It's kind of this situation the kings have developed so that, like, hey, if these guys have to sign off on it too, maybe they're the first people who get sort of mobbed, you know?

[Maria Tremarki]

Yeah. The people with the signature are probably the one. Why are the kings so insulated? Well, is it just because they can deploy the army against the peasantry or.

[Ed Zitron]

They can deploy the army. And this is a thing that increasingly happens in this period where there's this desire to strip the nobility of direct power. Right. So just kind of a smart play. If the nobility has to. Is in this position where they're doing. You can make them do unpopular things. Right. You can kind of loop them in on the shit you need to do that. Nobody likes. To the extent that they get blamed for that, it makes it harder for them to, like, have their own power base, you know?

[Maria Tremarki]

And they also get. They don't get taxed, though, in the nobility.

[Ed Zitron]

No, they do. They are, in this period, immune to most taxes. Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

And that's the trade off, I imagine.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, that's part of the trade off. And kind of the issue here is the nobility are not friendly always with the Crown. Right. Like, the nobility are both the people who govern with you. Right. And who are supposed to be taking your lead as the king. But whenever there's a rebellion against a king, it usually comes from the nobility in this period. Right. So that's part of why you would want a system like this as the king, because it protects you to a degree. Right, Right. But it does mean that there's constant conflicts between the Crown and these parliaments and these judges. Some of the central government's new taxes. Cardinal Mazarin and Anne Riposte, by threatening to change the rules about how judgeships work and like make it so that you don't own your seat today, again, in this period, being a judge is like being a subway franchise owner, right. And that it's your property and you pass it on to your kids. Right. And the rules governing this are part of something called the Paulette Tax, which came up for renewal in 1648. It's a little bit like, you could consider it a little bit like a union contract coming up. And so Mazarin and Ann are like, well, we don't have to let this work the same way. We can take these privileges away from you. And I'm going to read a quote from an article by the UK College of Arts and Sciences, Department of History on the matter and their anxiety to force through new tax edicts, Anne of Austria and Mazarin drove the judges of Parliament too far. On 15 January 1648, they brought the nine year old King to a formal session of the court called the lit de justice to force the judges to register an unpopular tax measure. The judges exercised their right to remonstrate or criticize the edict, starting a series of events that culminated in a call for the judges of all the Paris courts to come together to consider reforms in the kingdom. On 26 June, acting without the Regent's support, the parliament summoned those judges to meet in a body called the Chambre de St. Louis. This date marked the beginning of the Fronde. Street demonstrations organized by Retz showed that the judges had strong popular support. The Frondeurs focused their anger especially on Mazarin. They'd announced him as a foreigner who had no respect for the laws and institutions of France and as an intriguer who was using his influence over Anne to enrich himself and ruin the country. Paris was flooded with printed pamphlets called Mazarin aids vicious personal attacks on the Minister. This foreign rogue, juggler, comedian, famous robber, low Italian fellow fit only to be hung as one of them. Get his ass. He's a juggler, bodied as a juggler.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I feel like if this was 2025 there would have been like podcaster, where's Bathrobe?

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, sorry, Cardinal Mazarin. I mean first off, as a low Italian, I hate this kind of racism.

[Maria Tremarki]

As a judge.

[Ed Zitron]

Who are you loyal to in between? Oh man, foreign world famous Rob It'd be really bad if we had a.

[Maria Tremarki]

Foreign guy doing something to our government as well.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Oh my God, can you imagine that? That would never happen.

[Ed Zitron]

Just funny bringing up musk too, that like he keeps bringing his like little kid into these like massive like these moments that are like going to be major political moments. Like sticking his child in there brings his child admin.

[Maria Tremarki]

PHP to the White House.

[Ed Zitron]

Like I think it's fun that in this. And this just does show how even our dumb system is a little less dumb than things used to be. Where today the nine year old child king doesn't, you know, is not the one. Like the nine year old is not like in charge of anything. He's just being brought around by his dad who's basically the Cardinal Mazarin.

[Maria Tremarki]

Yeah, that's what I wanted to establish. Is this child in France power? Can the child do things yet or is it not Cardinal Mazarin?

[Ed Zitron]

No, no, obviously it's not. This society isn't stupid. They would not let a young child run things. You don't get to run things until you are the mat age of 13.

[Maria Tremarki]

Of course that's when you become a man.

[Ed Zitron]

Of course that's when you're a full man and able to govern. Perfect. So as a nine year old. Of course not. That would be silly.

[Maria Tremarki]

What would you possibly know? You have four long years to go through.

[Ed Zitron]

I think I could have governed France at 13.

[Maria Tremarki]

I'm busy. You can do it.

[Ed Zitron]

I would have spent the entire national budget on Warhammer miniatures. But honestly, can you tell me that's worse than what the French are doing now? I don't know. I don't pay attention.

[Maria Tremarki]

Better than AI Macron.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. Look guys, you don't get health care this year because I, I really went on a spending spree in Nottingham. Like there's a lot of unpainted plastic and resin coming and you're just like.

[Maria Tremarki]

Just like this is why you can't. Like Your power is £100 an hour.

[Ed Zitron]

You're all.

[Maria Tremarki]

But I will be happy painting.

[Ed Zitron]

But I'll have a lot of work to do. No. So they bring this nine year old king to this formal session and it causes this. As a result of how bad it goes, you get this rebellion. This is a civil war called the front, right? Which is. It's kind of on one side you've got these judges and nobles who are angry at the fact that the King is, are angry at the fact that the King is continuing to like pull strip powers from them. Or at least you'd say the crown is right, and so they're trying to protect their traditional powers and the crown is trying to protect its absolute power, as you know, the monarch, right? And so you get a civil war. Now this doesn't go well for the Frond, right? They sort of start out this thing, but they never get momentum. There's never like much popular backing. The common people are like, I don't really like, in part because the nobles in these parliaments are the ones who approve new taxes. Regular people are never like, one side is much better than the other and they tend to overall back the crown. So the young king Louis XIV doesn't get uprooted by the Fronde, right? But there are a couple of points that come close to a disaster for him, right? There's a shitload of riots in this period. He and his mother have to flee the capital Paris for a palace in Saint Germain nearby. The army clashes with rioters and while they put down the riots, the next year more nobles join the insurrection and they put together an army large enough to force Mazarin to resign and flee the country temporarily. The height of danger for young Louis comes when a rumor spreads in Paris that the king and his mother had fled the palace for a second time. And a mob swarms the palace to make sure that the king is still there, right? That like he hasn't left again. And they demand proof. And so they break into his bedchambers and as they're like busting down the door, basically Queen anne and this 10 year old kid are talking and he's like, what the fuck do I do? And she's like, just pretend like you're sleeping. Just pretend like you're sleeping. And so that's what happens. This mob busts in and Louis XIV just pretends to be asleep. Did it work? It does, it does work. Again, these guys are not. This isn't like It'll be in 1789. They're not busting into the palace because they want to kill the king. They're busting into the palace because they want to make sure he's still there. And like when he's asleep and he's like, he's sorry, he's 12. Like these people, number one, they're not like anti monarchy. And number two, they see like a sleeping 12 year old and they're like, we should probably go. Maybe this got out of hand. Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

When did he fall asleep? Is he gonna be up soon?

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, yeah, maybe. We don't want to like fuck with this little kid. Who's asleep. So the frond, this is obviously, this is traumatizing, right? Having a mob basically force their way into your bedchambers at age 12. This fucks Louis XIV up and is going to massively impact the decisions he makes as an adult and regent. But the frond ends with him still in power. That said, again, he's like traumatized by this and he comes away from the whole experience with a couple of conclusions. One of them is that the nobility of France are fucking out of pocket and they need to be. They have too much power and they need to be somehow corralled and stopped from building bases of power of their own. And they need to be put in a position where the crown can keep an eye on them and make sure that they're not plotting or scheming independently from the king. Right? That's one conclusion he makes. The other conclusion he makes is Paris is not a safe place. And he's got this palace at Saint Germain, but he has bad memories of it. So he's like, as an adult, he's going to be like, I want a new seat of power. Right? That's where we're going to get Versailles from. So cut forward by about a decade or so. Louis XIV is 24 years old. He is already a veteran of war in the Spanish Netherlands. So he's gone to war successfully as the monarch at this point. He's going to spend most of his time going in between palaces and the front. He is a, most of his reign, a wartime king. He had pushed France's frontiers outward and he had kind of built up a military. That is, France is the number one land power in Europe at this time, right? And economically, the only country in Europe that is a bigger economy than France is Denmark, because Denmark's doing a lot of overseas trading. This would be the last time, this kind of period of Louis XIV's reign will be the last time for a century or so in which France is actually in the black, as in, like in a good economic condition. But right now, Louis is rolling in it. He's got a shitload of cash and a very powerful army, and he decides to use that money to build a palace where he can, number one, feel safe and number two, lock all of the nobility away from the rest of France to keep an eye on them. Right? That's where Versailles comes out of. So speaking of a bunch of out of touch rich people, let's throw to sponsors. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Look, times are hard and they are not getting any easier. None of us get through this without a support system. I don't know where I'd be without the people, the community really, who help keep me on an even keel, who let me talk when I'm having trouble. Friends and social support is absolutely crucial, right? Nobody's got all the answers, but the people who do the best of getting by know when to ask questions and seek support from their community. In a society that glorifies hyper independence, it's easy to forget that we're all better when we have a support system behind us. And part of a good support system can be therapy. And if you are interested in starting a therapy journey, you might try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient. It serves over 5 million people worldwide. You can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. And you can easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. So build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com behind to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com behind stay on top of breaking.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Holly Fry]

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[Holly Fry]

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[Ed Zitron]

Okay, we're back. So I think when you look at like casual histories of the revolution, they always talk about Versailles and the situation there. How out of touch people are. This inwardly focused ruling class who live in this palace altogether as like a. A contributing factor to the revolution ended.

[Maria Tremarki]

So I just want to establish something. Yeah, all the nobility was made to move in.

[Ed Zitron]

I mean not 100% of them, but that's the idea. Right. Significant of the amount of them do. And the ones that don't literally live there like get second houses nearby like you have to. We'll talk about this more because this is a Thing that develops. But, like, yes, that is the ultimate product is that, like a significant chunk, most of the powerful nobility are at Versailles forever. Right. And that's the idea that Louis has, right, Is he's building this palace specifically to force them to hang out with him. Right, right. And when I'd read casual kind of histories, and my understanding previous to really digging into this was that this was a holdover from France's busted old feudal government. Right. This is like a medieval holdover kind of coming into conflict with the modern world. And that's part of why we get the French Revol Revolution. That's really not what Versailles is. Louis XIV is actually kind of creating one of the first modern central governments when he establishes the palace at Versailles. Right. This is actually a modernizing thing in some ways. Rulers had always owned palaces, and those palaces were both homes and fortresses. Right. So you could have a place to wait out an inconvenient war or an uprising. But Versailles, right. It's not a fortress, for one thing, and it's not just a home. It is an independent center of government. Versailles has more in common with Washington, D.C. than, for example, any of, like, the palaces in England. Right. Any of, like, the palaces of the House of Windsor. Right. Buckingham or whatever. Versailles is less like that. It is more like DC as in DC Was a city that was created from the ground up to be a center of government. Right. Versailles is. And in creating Versailles, Louis xiv, he doesn't just want a home. He wants a sprawling complex where the nobility of France will live and hang out and basically always be around him. And all of the governing of the country will be done there. And he's doing this both because that makes things more efficient for him. He's a relatively intelligent ruler. He understands that centralizing all of the people who are in charge of the country and keeping them around him makes communication a lot more efficient. But also keeping all of these people literally under the same roof allows him to keep an eye on the group that had nearly overthrown his family. Right. So we should talk for a bit about the location he picks. Right. Why Versailles? Because there's nothing there. Right. There's not a town in the area at this point. They build one, but there's not a town there. There's just an unpaved road into Paris and a hunting lodge that Louis XIV's F had used while, you know, hunting and stuff. Right. So Louis had grown up fond of the area, which is about 20 miles from Paris because of his dad's hunting lodge. And what became the palace started with they put some gardens in next to the hunting lodge. And it's kind of a place when he's a young man, like 18 or 19, Louis will go there with his friends and they'll like camp out there and have parties, you know. And so this is kind of like the start. That's why he gets the idea that like, this is where I want to build my palace is because, like this is he and his friends little burning man spot, you know, effectively. So In March of 1661, Cardinal Mazarin dies and Louis XIV. This is kind of what makes him independent as a ruler for the first time, at least totally. Later that year in August, he goes to a party thrown by one of the nobles who's hoping to curry favor with the new king, a guy named Nick Nicholas Fouquet. Fouquet is the minister of finance and he's built this massive, sprawling, elaborate palace, Vaux du Vicom, which is like the best, probably the nicest palace in France at the time. The architecture impresses Louis. He's like, wow, this place is really amazing. But he's also kind of pissed at Fouquet because Fouquet is trying, is like, okay, Mazarin's out. This guy is now the dude to impress. I am going to like go all out to basically try to bribe him so that he will make me his top advisor and I can basically run things. And he tries to do this by like handing out diamond tiaras and horses as party favors to his guests. Like he is, he is just like, yeah, horses, really nice horses, you know, not shit horses, good horses, at least shit ass horses.

[Maria Tremarki]

No, the good stuff is that just he promises it. He's Asimon.

[Ed Zitron]

No, he's got tons of horses on him.

[Maria Tremarki]

Yeah, just like wonderful society used to be. So much stranger.

[Ed Zitron]

Horses are a big, like the king at any given point is going to own like 2500 horses. Personally. Like that just, that's just the way it is. If you're rich, that's like the equivalent of having three nice cars, right? But so this guy Fouquet, he's showing off this massive palace that like impresses even the young king. And he's handing out diamond tiaras and horses. And it's, you know, this is meant as kind of a bribe to, to get Louis to be like, oh, this guy really knows what's up. But it just pisses off Louis, right? And it pisses off Louis because he's like, you're the Minister of Finance, how much of this money you're spending is really my money, Right? Like, where did you get all of this money? Minister of finance? Is any of it my shit that you're tossing around? Are you bribing me with my own money? And so he ends the night by arresting Fouquet and locking him up in a fortress.

[Maria Tremarki]

That rocks.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, it's pretty cool. In her book the Sun King, Nancy Mitford writes that as a result of this quote, we seldom hear of other people giving parties for the king. Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

How long did he stay in prison for? Was it just.

[Ed Zitron]

I think he's in there for a long years and years and years. Oh, my gosh. I don't know when that guy specifically gets out just because he might have.

[Maria Tremarki]

Spent the king's money.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Willy nilly with the horses.

[Ed Zitron]

If Louis XIV doesn't like you, he will lock you in a fortress for a decade, maybe longer. That's his thing. He loves putting people in fortresses. So the king raided Fouquet's home, taking silver ornaments, tapestries, a library, and more than a thousand orange trees. This is gonna be a signature of Louis XIV's reign is. He fucking loves orange trees. And it starts here. Now, orange trees, it's not easy to keep them healthy in the north of France. And they were so valued that each tree lived in a pure silver pot. Like, that's the. The planters that they use for orchestra are just made out of silver.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Is there drainage holes?

[Ed Zitron]

What's.

[Sophie Lichterman]

What are we talking about here?

[Ed Zitron]

I don't know. But there were. When. When Nancy Mitford wrote her book in the 60s, some of Louis XIV's orange trees were still alive.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Incredible.

[Ed Zitron]

So he's pretty good at keeping these things going.

[Sophie Lichterman]

You know, maybe we all need silver pot.

[Ed Zitron]

Maybe we. Maybe we should grow everything in silver pot.

[Sophie Lichterman]

We don't know.

[Ed Zitron]

We don't know. You know, have your. If you've got a baby, have them plated entirely in silver. See if it works. I don't know. I think I watched a James Bond movie that suggests that might be a bad idea. Try it. Either way. So he orders the construction of a palace at Versailles. Louis XIV built after this. Cause he's like, look, this Fouquet guy, fuck him. But this palace of his is pretty nice. I think I could do better. So he hires the guys who had made Louis or Fouquet's palace, and he has them start building a palace at Versailles, with the centerpiece being his old. His dad's old hunting lodge. Right. Now, the resulting complex, which is going to take years to build, Is massive. Among other things. There are 350 apartments, right, which is 350 individual living areas for different nobles, right. To reside in dorms.

[Maria Tremarki]

He just invented dorms.

[Ed Zitron]

He does invent dorms. This is. And one way to look at Versailles, if you cross the Pentagon and the White House with a frat house and a wework. Versailles and a wework. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's all of those things at once.

[Maria Tremarki]

Nice.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, yes. There's also banquet halls, there's dance halls, there's meeting rooms, there's Even an entire 240 foot room lined entirely in mirrors. And mirrors are hard to make at this point. Right. If you have a room lined in mirrors, it's to show off. I got fucking mirror money. I got so much mirror money, I got a room of the sons of bitches.

[Maria Tremarki]

So is there a logic behind the mirror room, or is it just so everyone could see you impress everybody?

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, everybody can see this is how.

[Maria Tremarki]

Rich the king is and themselves at every corner.

[Ed Zitron]

And they can see themselves at every corner. Frances Loring Paine describes in her book the story of Versailles. 17 lofty windows are matched by as many Venetian framed mirrors. Between each window and mirror are pilasters designed by Kosivu, Touby and Caffari, reigning masters of their time. Walls are of marble embellished with bronze gilt trophies. Large niches contain statues in the antique style. So pretty fancy. And this is, in fact, a palace unlike any the world had seen before Louis xiv. The man who would call himself the Sun King was not a patient person. So he ordered the construction rushed and damned the cost, either in money or in lives. Once he has this idea, he's like, I want this operational as soon as possible. He's like the Emperor Palpatine if the Death Star was just a place for rich people to party and be spied on. In an article for BBC History Magazine, Johnny Wilkes writes. Building went on from dawn to dusk, with up to 36,000 people working in the gardens in dire and dangerous conditions. Injuries became a daily occurrence and so many died that bodies would be quietly removed at night in bulk. The workers went on strike. But Louis saw Versailles as a symbol of his prestige, and therefore France's prestige. It was worth any price. When half a dozen men were crushed in an accident, one grieving mother approached Louis to request her son's body. He had her imprisoned.

[Maria Tremarki]

Okay. Seems fair.

[Ed Zitron]

Seems cool. Yeah, of course. How dare she? Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Fucking rude.

[Ed Zitron]

She didn't understand that this was about Francis Prestige, not how many people imprison.

[Maria Tremarki]

With the fucking Horse tiara guy.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Rude asshole.

[Ed Zitron]

Look, people are gonna get crushed to death. Obviously it happens.

[Maria Tremarki]

Oh my God, get over it.

[Ed Zitron]

You can't have a frat house Pentagon without breaking a few hundred laborers. God, yeah. Jesus, give me a break.

[Maria Tremarki]

You're so fucking unset it.

[Ed Zitron]

People are unreasonable, you know? So by May 6, 1662, the whole palace is still very much under construction and would remain that way for years. But enough had been completed that Louis was able to throw a grand party and begin the process of moving in. Now this would be a years long process. At first, Louis like spending a day every week there in part because he's also traveling constantly in between like Versailles or wherever else he's staying and the front where the wars are happening. Right. And basically for Louis, the war is kind of a gig work thing, right? Like he's got his marshals who handle the full time thing. He just kind of comes in when somebody like sends him a letter being like, oh, hey man, I think the war is about to get cool again. Maybe you should come up and check it out now. Right? Yeah, like that's fine. Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Don't want to waste your time on the boring parts of war.

[Ed Zitron]

For him, it's a little like a soap opera where like. Yeah, you don't watch every episode. There's long. Some of these storylines are super interesting. We got like a year of this siege to get through. Go party. You know, we'll handle that at the.

[Maria Tremarki]

End when we're knocking down the fuckers.

[Ed Zitron]

Bring me, bring me in when something cool's going on, right? Yeah, yeah. So the process of moving everybody in takes years because. And this is such a, like the pain in the ass this creates for everyone while they're unable to live their full time. But he's having people spend as much time there as possible because every time Louis heads back to Versailles for like a night, every government minister, every high ranking noble as well as like Louis whole family and his coterie of mistresses have to travel back with him. It's like this massive pain in the ass. And there's not rooms for most of them. So like Louis got. Even Louis not living in comfort for most of this period. His rooms aren't really finished, but everyone else is like camping basically in this.

[Maria Tremarki]

Giant, beautiful palace that should be luxurious.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, that shit. But is just unfinished and filled with dead people. Yeah, that'll happen. Yeah, that'll happen.

[Maria Tremarki]

Real estate is challenging.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, yeah. Real estate is a real, real complicated endeavor.

[Maria Tremarki]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

Now the fact that this is a huge pain in the ass. And that it kind of, even before Versailles is finished, it is dominating the lives of a huge chunk of the nobility because they have to constantly be aware of where Louis is when he's traveling back. They have to get themselves back. They're like missing sleep because they're not able to live. It like completely disrupts all of their lives. And that's part of the plan. Like, Louis XIV is doing this intentionally. Oh, and I want to read a quote from Mitford's book. Quote. The king had already begun to enslave his nobility by playing on the French love of fashion. In 1654, he gave a feat which lasted from 7 to 13 May. This really caused more pain than pleasure for the gift. Guests had nowhere to sleep and were obliged to doss down as best they could in local cottages and stables. So again, he's like, the fact that this is a pain in the ass and the fact that he's increasingly forcing everyone. You're not just constantly obsessed with, where is the king? When do I have to get back to Versailles? But you also, there's these parties whenever you're there. So you're spending a lot of your free time making sure you've got outfit fits and like spending a lot of your money got outfit. It's a party.

[Maria Tremarki]

So like a six day long jolly.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, I mean some of them are shorter than that. But like it's a, it's a. Yeah. And it's, it's a mandatory party that you have to have an outfit for. That outfit is going to cost you 30 years salary for a laboring person. Right. And so you have to be constantly like traveling, sleeping in uncomfortable conditions and spending your time and money figuring out what you're going to wear. Which means you're not spending any time thinking about rebelling. Right. You're not. You have no extra attention to spend on building a base of power.

[Maria Tremarki]

Of course, because you're going to and from parties and working out how you're dressed.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, exactly.

[Maria Tremarki]

Interesting.

[Ed Zitron]

And that's it. Because Louis xiv, his big motivation with Versailles is to make another Fronde impossible. Hadley Mears writes, the move was designed to neutralize the power of the nobles. This it did. But it also created a hotbed of boredom and extravagance with hundreds of aristocrats crammed together, many with nothing to do but gossip. Spend money and play.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I was gonna say, the amount of like tea being spilled at these events, gossip had to be, well, and then.

[Maria Tremarki]

New gossip being created in real time.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Exactly.

[Ed Zitron]

That's Going to be a major factor in what happens next. Right. And we'll be talking about, like, what. How this gossip eventually trickles out, and it kind of leads to the creation. Paris basically has Twitter in this period. I was gonna say.

[Maria Tremarki]

I was gonna say this is like, Parisian Twitter.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. Yeah. That's kind of where things are building towards. Right, Very good. And it's also, you know, people are gambling here constantly. So fortunes are being won and lost, you know, ces, but French.

[Maria Tremarki]

Like, you've got fucking people gambling away everything.

[Ed Zitron]

Everyone's tired, everyone's exhausted and deranged, and people are, like, going broke and need loans from the king, which makes them more dependent on him.

[Maria Tremarki]

Nice. And all of this was intentional?

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, yes. This is part of the plan.

[Maria Tremarki]

Completely insane.

[Ed Zitron]

I love it. Louis xiv. But he's very intelligent in that he never faces another threat to his rule. Right. Like, that does not happen. Like, he. He. He locks the nobility down.

[Maria Tremarki]

They're too busy partying.

[Ed Zitron]

They can't. Yeah. They're too busy going.

[Maria Tremarki]

Sloane's machinery situation.

[Ed Zitron]

He has. He has. He is what Versailles is. He builds a totalitarian dictatorship just for the ruling class, where they are forced to party and gamble their whole lives.

[Maria Tremarki]

The Andrew Wk System.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. Now, much has been written about the intricate and stifling rules of etiquette that had to be practiced at Versailles. They had their origins in, you know, every medieval house, every royal house in all of Europe has these complicated etiquette rules that they have to abide by. But they're not all enforced the same way. Right. And they're not. They're not all. None of them are as intricate as they become in Versailles. Because what you. You take these kind of baseline rules about, like, oh, if you have, you know, this guy, this guy, this guy, and this guy in a room, only this guy is allowed to hand the king his shirt. Right. But if that guy leaves, then the next person is allowed to hand the king his shirt.

[Maria Tremarki]

So you have to remember who is allowed to hand the shirt.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes.

[Maria Tremarki]

Do we know the punishment for this?

[Ed Zitron]

It's not a punishment thing so much as it's a violation of etiquette, and thus it is offensive to everybody. And it causes, like, gossip, and it makes, like, instead of protecting their power to tax and rule the commoners, the nobility are increasing, increasingly, protecting their power to hand the king his shirt in the morning.

[Maria Tremarki]

Fucking brilliant.

[Ed Zitron]

I love it.

[Maria Tremarki]

I love it.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. So, again, every royal house, you know, all of the nobility in all of Europe have some version of this, but it gets like 10 times as intense in Versailles, because everyone is now living under one very large roof. Right. And this means that, for one thing, nobles no longer have the same kind of lives of their own outside of court. So there's nothing going on in their lives but obsessing over perceived slights and the intricacies of social dynamics, who's snubbing who, who is in the king's favor, et cetera. And it also means the nobility. Traditionally, in like a feudal society, if you're the king and your nobles are your warriors, Right. That's like the core of the elite of your army. In part because they have the time to train. The nobility are no longer training to fight. Right. They are training and spending their whole youths and childhoods learning how to be the most effective member of what is effectively a bickering high school clique. Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

Like, this is years long as well. So it marinates.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. Your whole life is a high school and the king is the coolest kid in the school. So everyone is constantly trying to figure out how to make him like them. Right. Instead of focusing on being good at war, which is a danger to you as the king.

[Maria Tremarki]

When you say they're warriors, what does that mean, though, for the nobility?

[Ed Zitron]

Well, like traditionally in Europe, they need what knights are, Right? Yeah, I mean, like, knights are nobility and they are like the core of your army in the earlier medieval period. Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

Except they're now all bickering about who had a shirt.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. And now instead of having like any real doing anything else, really, all that these guys are doing, a lot of these people are doing on a day to day basis, is obsessing over, like the minutiae of this, like, basically big high school. Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

I love it.

[Ed Zitron]

So for the next decade, after 1662, construction continues at a relentless pace. And as more gets built, more and more nobles live full time at Versailles. It becomes the King's primary residence when he's not out engaging in his favorite hobby, going to war with the Dutch. The Sun King felt that Denmark was natural French territory, and he very nearly managed to make this a reality. But his capture of Amsterdam was thwarted when the Dutch opened their dikes and flooded the lowlands. So he does get stymied in his dream of owning the Netherlands, which is very sad for all of us. You know, I would like to own the Netherlands one day, so I can understand why this is big for Louis xiv. Back home, you know, he couldn't make this work. But back in Versailles, he's able to exercise ultimate control over nature for Example, the King decided he wanted a forest around Versailles. And you know the problem with forests, Ed? You can plant a forest, anybody can plant a forest if you got enough seeds. But trees take so fucking long to grow.

[Maria Tremarki]

I know. I was just gonna say you got a bloody weight for the thing.

[Ed Zitron]

Huge pain in the ass. You know he's not gonna do that. So rather than wait for trees to grow, he has thousands of adult trees dug up from nearby forests in a hall.

[Maria Tremarki]

Just take a tree somewhere else, take.

[Ed Zitron]

It from somewhere else, and he plants them. Mitford writes, those which died about half were immediately replaced. So basically, they're just digging up adult trees, planting them, waiting for ones to die, and then replanting them until they have a living forest.

[Maria Tremarki]

As in grabbing new trees to replace the trees that you've already grabbed. Wonderful. Cool.

[Ed Zitron]

That you've already murdered.

[Maria Tremarki]

Yes.

[Ed Zitron]

Speaking of killing trees, you know who hates trees? Not our sponsors.

[Nancy Grace]

Stay on top of breaking crime news with Crime Alert Hourly Update available now.

[Holly Fry]

I'm Nancy Grace. Our team of reporters and experts is dedicated to bringing you the top crime headlines you need to know every hour on the hour. From missing people to trial updates and true crime stories, we bring you the latest real time news and analysis.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Holly Fry]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Ed Zitron]

We're back. We're so back. We've never been more back. And we're talking about the palace at Versailles, which has just murdered thousands of trees so that the king can have a forest. Right. So obviously, for years, the palace is dreadfully uncomfortable. Courtiers slept wherever they could before the various apartments were finished. And the Sun King was also usually, like, kind of roughing it too, behind his back. Nobles called the palace a mistress without merit. As in, like, this is like the king's lady, but like, she sucks, you know? None would dare say that to Louis's face. To Louis face, though. And the dream of the palace sustained him until the first phase of construction was finished in, like, the 1670s. This gave way almost immediately to an expansion and remodeling, but the palace was done enough that it starts attracting foreign visitors with stories of Its grandeur. One, like, anecdote you'll hear at the time is that British people who would, like, go and see the court at Versailles would be like, oh, man, our king lives in a fucking slum, basically. Right? Like, it is, in short order, the most famous capitol building in Europe. And it actually, like every palace after this point is influenced by Versailles. It becomes like a destination for the other crowned heads and nobles of the continent. And so it actually does. It is a hideous expense. While they are building it, it consumes half of France's gdp. What? Yes. It is an outrageous expense.

[Maria Tremarki]

Wonderful.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, it is almost an incompetent, incomprehensible expense. And this enormous expense necessitated economic changes which were brought about in part by the further centralization and modernization of the French state. Part of, obviously, Versailles in and of itself is centralizing the state in a way that makes it more modern, but also they have to modernize and centralize the economy more in order to afford Versailles. Louis, economic minister, was a guy named Colbert who had taught the Sun King math when he was a child. And Colbert hated Versailles. He thinks it's a stupid idea, but he's also really good with the money. And he's probably the only person who could have made the whole project economically viable. And for a while, he does, as Mitford writes, quote, the prestige of Louis XIV and the fame of Versailles mounted year by year. Other European princes and magnates wanted a Versailles of their own, down to the smallest details of its furnishings. Colbert exploited this fashion to help his exports. He erected a rigid customs barrier. Nothing was allowed to be imported that could be made in France. Factories were set up to supply the linen, lace, silk, glass, carpets, jewelry, inlaid furniture, and other articles of luxury that used to come from foreign lands. The finest examples of their work went to Versailles and were shown to the foreign visitors who flocked there. The chateau became a shop window, a permanent exhibition of French goods.

[Maria Tremarki]

So the economy literally centralized around a house.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. Yes. And it becomes a massive part of the French economy, both in that this is where we use this as a showcase for the different things French artisans can make. And because all of the crowned heads come here, they're blown over by the palace and they're like, well, I need those kind of tables. Right. I need those chairs. Right. And only French artisans. This is part of why France gets its reputation as having the best artisans in Europe. Right. Is versatile. And so luxury goods become an increasingly massive part of the French economy. And Versailles is where they're shown off. And it is like a CES for, like, rich people furnishings, you know, like, that is a big factor in, like, what. What Versailles becomes and its role in. In the economy. Now, it also is central to the economy because of the sheer. Again, 36,000 workers at the height of this project. That's a massive deal for a country that is like France's in this period of time. And Colbert saw the sheer number of workmen the project consumed as more than the state could bear, given its current birth rate. Right. Like, he comes. The Minister of the Economy comes to the conclusion that we are not breeding enough men to continue building Versailles. And so he institutes a national breeding program to ensure sufficient labor for a house for the King's big, fancy party house.

[Maria Tremarki]

This is so awful, but also so cool.

[Ed Zitron]

It's nuts.

[Maria Tremarki]

It's just, like, half the economy.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Like, all of the. We have an entire thing of housing, furnishings.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Look at multiple industries.

[Ed Zitron]

It's nuts and obviously evil. It is also like, Louis XIV is kind of the most king that a king has ever been. Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

This really is kinging it. Of Bowers House one.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

If you're gonna be a king, spend half of the economy, create multiple industries, make everything built in one country to make your house cool.

[Ed Zitron]

To make your house cool.

[Maria Tremarki]

And then create a bunch of bizarre social rules inside it so that everyone's freaked out. Just like.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, it's. It's so. It's so like, there are. Between. Once Versailles gets up and running permanently, between, like, 3,000 people is kind of like the normal level of inhabitants. And up to 10,000 at times. Right. When, like, the party season's at full swing.

[Maria Tremarki]

There's so many people in there.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. Yes. It is massive. Now, Colbert institutes this breeding program. He exempts families with more than 10 kids from taxes. He also raises age. That's nice. He also raises the age at which men and women are allowed to join the Catholic Church as priests and nuns. Cause he's worried that, like. Cause they're not breeding, obviously. And he forbids working men from immigrating from leaving the country. Country. Jesus Christ. Yes. So that we can come to my house. Build my house. Everyone has to come to my house.

[Maria Tremarki]

I need an extra child. Bring your boys to my house to build my house.

[Ed Zitron]

And for Colbert, it's more like, I hate this house. It's stupid. It's dumb that the King is doing this, but the whole country will collapse if we don't keep this house going.

[Maria Tremarki]

I didn't teach you math so that.

[Ed Zitron]

You could build a house like this. Now it is Hard for me to read stuff like this and not think about, like, Elon Musk and Palmer Luckey's obsession with birth rates. Right. And they frame it as like a fairness thing. Oh, if you're not having 2.1 kids, you expect someone else's child to take care of you when you're old. But the reality is closer to what Colbert and Louis wanted. Right? They also just want warm bodies to feed into the ravenous maw of their narcissistic death projects. They just not aren't as open about it or as good at it. Like they just. And they'll never have Louis the 14th.

[Maria Tremarki]

That is the thing with Elon Musk and all of these other damp fellows. They don't have the killer instinct of an old school French atrocity merchant.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, because he literally fought and warred his way. His whole childhood is wars and conniving. Right, Louis? Ivan. Yeah. No, no, no, it's just Musk is.

[Maria Tremarki]

Trying to couch everything. Oh, I'm doing this for the better. Louis's just like, we need more fucking children to build my party house. Go, go, go.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Maria Tremarki]

Go, go, go. What, are you fucking kidding? They don't make chairs here.

[Ed Zitron]

Fuck you.

[Maria Tremarki]

You can't leave the country until you fuck more.

[Ed Zitron]

So the years in which Versailles is constructed and debuted to the world are good ones for the French economy, which doubles in revenue between 1661 and 1671. Again, Colbert is good at this. This does work. However, the wealth coming as a result of Versailles is largely due to an explosion, again, in like, luxury goods and work for skilled craftsmen. And so while there's, on paper, the economy's doing better, a huge group of the country is doing much worse, which is the peasantry. Right. The people who make their living growing food suffer tremendously while this economic miracle is going on. Again, again, this is not similar to anything that's happened recently. You know, not that it's the people growing food with us, but it is like, you know, the economy's great on paper for all these corporations, while a huge chunk of the working class is suffering. Right. It is kind of. You can see it as similar to that, where. Well, yeah, like the people who are making shit for Versailles are doing well, but, like the peasant farmers are like, in a disastrous state. And Colbert's fine with this. He does not give a shit about these people suffering and neither does Louis. They are concerned with the continued exposure, expansion of this pleasure palace and the attendant growth of the French military and navy. And those are the only projects not.

[Maria Tremarki]

Built Fully yet, or are they just building more of it?

[Ed Zitron]

They're constantly building more of it and renovating it. And the only projects that are allowed to compete with Versailles for manpower are the military and the navy. As Mitford writes, quote, he Colbert did little or nothing to help the French peasants through a period of agricultural depression. Indeed, low farm prices suited his policy of cheap exports. The gap between the peasantry and the rest of the population first became serious under Colbert. It was not bridged, as in England, by country gentlemen. He encouraged the slave trade, and although he did insist on certain humanitarian measures, this was the only way to keep down the death rate of such valuable cattle. Worst of all, he increased the number of galleys in the French navy from six to 40, each containing 200 unhappy souls. Since black people were useless for manning them, they had no stamina and died at once. He employed. This was a book written a lot longer ago. He employed French criminals and Turks caugh in the Barbary wars, when the Turks were worn out, they were sold in America for what they would fetch. Young solid Frenchmen accused of capital offenses were often sent to the galleys for life instead of being executed. Minor criminals, if they were able bodied, were never released at the end of their sentences. They could only be freed if their relations could afford to buy a Turk to replace them. Colbert thought that too many of his galley slaves died. The intendant of the galley swore they were well fed, but said they died of grief and boredom. This is just a night. It's really to emphasize this is a nightmare state. Right. Like while they're killing all these laborers in the palace, the whole navy is. We tried using slaves, but they all died immediately. So we brought in. Instead we brought in Turks that were basically slaves and captive prisoners. And, you know, you could buy your way out, but you gotta find us another Turk, you know?

[Maria Tremarki]

Yeah, just like this. Like a side Turk economy. And all of this, again, is to pretty much make sure a big house is built.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. Well, and this is for the navy, but the navy is there to protect your ability to continue building the big house. Right. You need a strong navy and military so no one can stop you from having this huge house, of course. Oh, God, yeah, it's a nightmare. It is important to really emphasize the degree to which Versailles was from the beginning, a marvel of architecture and art and culture. Culture as well as a yawning pit into which human lives were poured in order to build and maintain. That said, the plan works. The nobles don't trouble him or any other French king in his line with thoughts of revolution again. Beyond that, Versailles becomes the envy of every other king and emperor. It was, in one writer's words, the cultural heartbeat of Europe when people on the continent referred to the king. Like if people in other European states just refer generally to the king king, it's often understood that they're talking about Louis xiv. Because he is so powerful in his centralization of power, he becomes one of the most absolute monarchs the world has ever seen. One illustrative anecdote is a rhyme the Sun King himself composed. Le tat cest moi. The state. That's me.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Wow. Lyrical genius.

[Ed Zitron]

Lyrical genius. Louis xiv.

[Maria Tremarki]

Boz.

[Ed Zitron]

It's so funny. No ego has ever been more fevered. A whole language of etiquette and pomp is created and developed around earning and keeping the king's power. So for an example of this, he hates the idea that people go to the bathroom, right? He can't stand this. He considers it a weakness. And if you.

[Maria Tremarki]

My man hates the toilet.

[Ed Zitron]

If you are traveling with this guy or hanging out with him and you need to stop to pee, if you like, ask to be excused to go to the bathroom, you're instantly exiled from the cool kids crowd.

[Sophie Lichterman]

He's just like trying to give everybody a UTI.

[Ed Zitron]

He loves UTIs. The man can't get enough UTIs.

[Maria Tremarki]

What if he needs to piss?

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, he just does whatever he wants. He's the king.

[Maria Tremarki]

He's pissing willy nilly.

[Ed Zitron]

He's the king. He can do anything.

[Sophie Lichterman]

What a strange little man.

[Ed Zitron]

So his, his, his, like, closest friends find themselves avoiding water or getting really good at holding it, or they have to sneak away, relieve themselves, right?

[Maria Tremarki]

Are you going on stone outside to look around?

[Ed Zitron]

I just gotta have. I don't need to pick something, man. I gotta go. My mistress. Yeah. Now, servants. Some nobles have their own apartments with chamber pots, right? And so their servants will barter and sell bathroom access to people who need to go to the bathroom who are, like, running away for wild. You gotta give me a second. I gotta be somewhere, right?

[Sophie Lichterman]

This is so strange.

[Ed Zitron]

Because of this, there are rumors which will really get crazy in life later among later kings. And these will spread heavily among people in Paris. And it's fanned a lot by newspapers and tracts that are printed in Denmark because there's no press freedom in France. So the newspapers that people are reading in Paris, that have all of the gossip, are usually printed in Denmark and then brought into Paris, smuggled into Paris, they'll be sold at property owned by nobles who are like the Idea of these papers being around for their own personal benefit and can keep the police away. Right. So that's how a lot of this. We'll talk more about that later. But, you know, one of the rumors that starts to spread because of how weird Louis is about people going to the bathroom is that members of the nobility are just pissing in the hallways and corners of the palace, and that all of Versailles is one big, expensive bathroom. Right. Like, everyone's just pissing and shitting everywhere. Right. That is a rumor that's widely believed in Paris. This is an exaggeration. Mitford says it's just outright untrue. You know, because of how many bathrooms there are in Versailles. This just wouldn't happen. I don't think Mitford's got it right either, because here's the thing. It's certainly not true that it's the norm for people to piss and shit wherever they're standing, but this is a house filled with thousands of drunk people partying all of the time.

[Maria Tremarki]

And also, they're gossiping.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

So they're like, did you hear Sally went to the toilet? I saw Jeremy pissing.

[Ed Zitron]

So one of the things that is a factor in Versailles, every room, basically every major room, has orange trees in it, like, and other plants. People are definitely pissing in those pots. Like, you're not gonna tell me that's.

[Maria Tremarki]

Why they're still alive?

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

They're full of French noble pits.

[Ed Zitron]

Right. And people are for sure puking in random spots. Right. Because, again, it's a big frat house to some degree. Right. So there's some amount of this that has to. Obviously, the degree to which they talk about this being a thing in Paris is a massive exaggeration, but it definitely happens, you know. Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Especially if you have to surreptitiously piss.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. You've got to hide that. You're, like, just, like, turning around.

[Maria Tremarki]

I'm adjusting lip Hence, and you just.

[Ed Zitron]

Hygiene was not as bad back then as people often assume among the nobility. But, like, people didn't bathe daily. They're generally cloaked in perfume. And between that, the palace is constantly filled with smoke because of all of the candles and fireplaces. So the smell of this place would have been fascinating at times. Right. Let's put it that way.

[Maria Tremarki]

Smell crazy in there.

[Ed Zitron]

It smelled great. Not necessarily bad always, but crazy.

[Maria Tremarki]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, unfathomable to our modern day. So Louis XIV wanted the whole world of Versailles to revolve around him, and it did, which meant one of the most important questions for anyone to ask on a daily basis was, who is the king fucking? And the king is a notoriously horny guy. He is horny by the standards of French kings. Right. And that's hard.

[Maria Tremarki]

So is he.

[Ed Zitron]

French kings almost invented modern sex, and he is the fucking est of the kings of France. Nice. One of his first mistresses was Louise de la Valliere, Louise de la Valerie. Right. Who eventually reached a sort of. And like, there's a huge conflict between her and his. His wife, the queen, and one of his other mistresses. And they eventually, like, all sit down and talk about it in a way that feels, like, weirdly modern and, like, become cool with each other. Other. Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

Still talking about le boundaries and.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, yeah. Like, that actually happens here. And, like, they're actually kind of chill for a while about it. Okay.

[Maria Tremarki]

Progressive modern. The first polygroup.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. I mean, it is. Adultery is so normalized in the Sun King's palace that it is kind of like that. Right. Like, the king's mistress is a specific named position at court and one that held quite a bit of influence. Right. Wow.

[Maria Tremarki]

This government is insane. You've got the piss house.

[Ed Zitron]

The lady who's just fucking the king.

[Maria Tremarki]

The mistress is like a title. You have a business card.

[Ed Zitron]

The mistress is a title. And the people, like, gossip. Like, the way that we're gossiping about, like, who's going to lead the FBI or whatever people are gossiping about. Like, yeah, I think the king might fuck this lady next. And, you know, who knows what that'll change? And it's one of those things where he has his official mistress. That is not to say that he limits himself to one mistress. As Johnny Wilkes writes, it's said that one day he grew so impatient waiting for a lover to undress, that he turned his attention to one of the maids. Because again, he's the king, you know, he's just fucking whoever he wants. He needs to fuck then, and he needs to fuck then.

[Maria Tremarki]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

Now, because the king has the power to he. One of the ways in which he'll show favor to a lady he fucks or to just like, a dude. He has, like, a part. He gets along with a guy, one night, they have a good drunk talk or whatever, he hands out these gifts, right? And these gifts are not. Like, sometimes he can hand out just money, but usually the gift is like a pension or the right to tax a specific area or, like, you get a cut of the fish that are sold in this province. Right.

[Maria Tremarki]

I got fucked up with Louisiana tax people.

[Ed Zitron]

Shit. Yeah. I got fucked up with Louis. And Now I get 2% of all of the French. The fish sold in Normandy, Right? Like, that's just what I. That's what I have forever now. So there's a lot of. There's a ton of money and, like, being a woman who he likes, and there's a ton of money and just, like, being a dude that he's friends with. And so a whole. Because of how much money there is in this and how important it is to be in the King's favor, an entire shadow economy springs up among providing amulets, charms, and magical spells to curry the King's favor, and even poisons to use on rivals for his affections. This is a whole industry in France is like witchcraft to impress the King.

[Maria Tremarki]

Fuck, yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[Maria Tremarki]

That's so great.

[Ed Zitron]

Nancy Mitford writes about one such purveyor of magics, Madame Voisin. And Madame Voisin was approached by a lady at court vying with Luis de la Valerie for the Sun King's attention. Right. So, you know, Valerie is his mistress. And this new lady wants to become the next mistress. Her name is Madame de Montespan, and she wants to take over for Valerie. And, you know, she thinks that magic's the best way to do that. So she talks to this Madame Boissine lady, and I'm going to quote from the book the Sun King here. She gave excellent advice to her clients and did what she could to help them, catering for little feminine desires, such as larger breasts and smaller mouths, white hands and luck at cards when unwanted babies were on the way. She was very understanding. This means she provides a bore to fashion. Right. If wishes concerned an inheritance, there were certain powders for unrequited love. Various forms of magic, no doubt. She began advising Madame de Montespan by talking over the situation. And who, longing to be loved, can have enough of such talks and such advice. But nothing happened. The King remained indeed different. Right, so she tries some of these, like, magics and spells, and the King doesn't want to fuck her yet, so it's decided that they should move on to, like, the hardcore spells, which means bringing in the devil. Right. If you want to do the powerful magic, you're going to. You're going to have to talk to the devil.

[Maria Tremarki]

No consideration that the magic didn't work. It's just that you didn't use effective enough magic.

[Ed Zitron]

You didn't have enough of the devil, of course. Right, yeah. The nobility believes that no magic spell can be truly efficacious unless Satanism involved. And this leads to a separate cottage industry, one where you've got priests who want extra money. And so these Catholic priests will conduct underground satanic rites in order to, like, do magic for these people at Versailles. Yeah, this is a terrible house. This house has its underground black magic economy now. And obviously other. Like in Paris, there's other parts of France where this kind of underground trade exists, but it largely comes to focus around these people in Versailles currying for favor. Right. Now, again, Nancy Mitford is from a different generation and she writes about all this magic more seriously, as if these priests and these witches believe literally in everything that they're doing. My suspicion, suspicion is that a lot of these service providers are like con men and women. Right. They know these black masses aren't really magic spells or whatever. They just also understand that if they can create this space of altered reality for their wealthy, out of touch clientele who live in a permanent party and don't understand the real world, then they can get a lot of money out of them. Right, right. I think it really is much more cynical from. I'm sure there's some people who really believe that they're talking about these people.

[Maria Tremarki]

Didn'T have a connection to the devil.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, y. Yes, yes. Bit unreasonable, but they know the nobility believes that. That's my interpretation.

[Maria Tremarki]

And these people are like sleep deprived. They stink. They've been living in the party house for like, years.

[Ed Zitron]

So they're just like their minds.

[Maria Tremarki]

Well, they're already in an altered reality because they're living in this world where, like, you can't piss or shit.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, yes.

[Maria Tremarki]

You can't. Like the wrong person can't handle shit. Of course they're open to magic. The laws of Madden don't exist.

[Ed Zitron]

You've gotten it exactly right, which is that Versailles is a cult. And once you get people into a cult, you have altered their brain chemistry in a way that makes them much more vulnerable to anyone selling this kind of bullshit. Right. And that's why this magic trade really perks up. And I'm gonna read another quote from the Sun King. Madame Voisin knew a priest who was willing to help. He read the gospel over Madame de Montespan's head. There was some nonsense with pigeons. Hearts under a consecrated. And she prayed, please let the King love me. Let Monsignor le Dauphine, that's the King's son and heir, be my friend and may this love and this friendship last. Please make the Queen sterile. Let the King leave La Valerie and never look at her again. Let the Queen be repudiated and the King marry me. It was all rather harmless and undeniably successful. The King seemed to become aware of her for the first time. He went off to besiege lady in June of 1667, taking her in the capacity of lady in waiting to the Queen. Louise de Valerie was not invited. In despair, she followed the royal party and caught up with it as the camp was being pitched. When she came face to face with the King, he put on a terrifying manner and said, madame, I don't like having my hand forced. She had to go away, deeply humiliated. During this campaign, Madame de Montespan became his mistress. Her sacrilegious prayer seemed well on the way to being answered. The King loved her now. So it worked, you know. Yeah, it's good.

[Maria Tremarki]

This whole system works.

[Ed Zitron]

This whole system works great. Now, unfortunately, all of this, this whole industry of like devil spells is going to become a problem in part two, but we're going to be talking about that on Thursday. Ed, you want to plug anything after this super long episode?

[Maria Tremarki]

Go to betteroffline.com download the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, go back, download every single episode or.

[Ed Zitron]

Or else. Or else. All right, everyone. We love you.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Kind of.

[Ed Zitron]

Goodbye. Some of us love you.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, YouTube.com behindthebastards.

[Ed Zitron]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarki. And I'm Holly Frey. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves. We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching. And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Grace]

Need the latest crime news fast. Whether it's the latest developments in a high profile case or urgent allure about missing persons. Crime Alert Hourly Update delivers the news you need to know as it happens.

[Holly Fry]

I'm Nancy Grace, and with our team of investigative reporters and experts, we bring you the top crime headlines you need to know every hour on the hour.

[Nancy Grace]

Listen to Crime Alert Hourly Update on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.