Part One: The Sordid Story of Nature Boy: The Instagram Cult Leader Who Hates Toilets

Summary

Behind the Bastards: Part One - The Sordid Story of Nature Boy: The Instagram Cult Leader Who Hates Toilets

Released on May 13, 2025 by Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the inaugural episode of "Behind the Bastards," hosts Robert Evans and Katie Stahl delve deep into the tumultuous life of Elysio Bishop, a man who transformed from a troubled youth into a modern-day cult leader known as "Nature Boy." This episode meticulously chronicles Bishop's early hardships, his descent into criminal activities, and his eventual rise within the online conscious community, culminating in his establishment as a charismatic yet flawed leader.

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Early Life and Foster Care (00:01 - 21:46)

Elysio Bishop was born in Harlem, New York, in 1982. According to a Rolling Stone article, Bishop claims he was a "crack baby," though this narrative is contested by sources like the YouTube channel "Hood Horrors," which provides a more nuanced view of his upbringing.

[17:06] Robert Evans:
"Elysio Bishop was born in Harlem in 1982 and said that he was a crack baby. The story of his upbringing he lays out in his social media videos is troubled."

Bishop's early years were marred by instability. Shortly after his father's death from a heart attack, his mother struggled with severe drug addiction, leading to his removal and placement into the foster care system along with his siblings. At seven, after frequent behavioral issues with his younger brother Leo, Bishop was separated and placed in a foster home in Queens run by Mr. and Mrs. Pope.

[20:09] Robert Evans:
"And he's still childhood experiences, his parents are both dead. He's been moved to one foster home where he was sexually abused."

Bishop alleges sexual abuse in his foster home, a claim supported by broader statistics indicating that approximately 4-5% of foster children suffer sexual abuse. While his brother Leo acknowledges regular corporal punishment, there's a discrepancy in their accounts of severity and impact.

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Descent into Crime and Incarceration (21:46 - 43:10)

Bishop's tumultuous childhood set the stage for his rebellious adolescence. Engaging in petty crimes—such as car thefts, burglaries, and thefts—he faced multiple arrests, culminating in a five-year juvenile detention sentence.

[43:10] Robert Evans:
"He was finally convicted and sentenced to five years of juvenile detention, which is where he spends the remainder of his time as a child."

During his incarceration, Bishop struggled with severe depression and multiple suicide attempts, a common plight among detained youth. Released at nineteen, he briefly reunited with his family but faced continued instability, moving between relatives and jobs, including a stint at a slaughterhouse that further deteriorated his mental health.

[43:22] Katie Stahl:
"It is disgusting."

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Struggles Post-Incarceration and Entry into the Workforce (43:10 - 54:08)

Attempting to rebuild, Bishop took on various roles, notably as a security guard and later as a barber. His charm facilitated temporary success in these endeavors, but personal relationships were tumultuous, leading to repeated homelessness. To sustain himself, Bishop engaged in sex work and starred in pornography, activities he rationalized as necessary for financial survival.

[53:57] Katie Stahl:
"He's pretty hot. Looks like a lot of people's Tinder profile right there."

His work as a stripper under the name "Tyson for Tyson Beckford" showcased his ability to capitalize on his physical appeal, despite the inherent instability of such professions.

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Transition to Cult Leadership (54:08 - 75:14)

Bishop's encounters with the conscious community online exposed him to a blend of black consciousness ideology and fringe conspiracy theories. Immersed in this subculture, he adopted beliefs that higher melanin levels correlate with greater intelligence and that conventional hygiene practices are detrimental.

[70:21] Robert Evans:
"He also starts to believe that bathing is bad for you. You don't need to bathe if you eat only fruit..."

These radical views began to permeate his public persona, especially during his tenure as a barber. Using his barbershop as a platform, he transitioned from providing haircuts to delivering elaborate rants intertwined with his newfound beliefs.

[73:41] Robert Evans:
"He thinks you should only shit in the backyard."

Bishop's increasing obsession with these ideologies led him to abandon his given name, adopting "Nature Boy" as his new identity, symbolizing his break from conventional societal norms and his embrace of his cult-like beliefs.

[74:00] Katie Stahl:
"And in general, probably. Bad for the yard."

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Notable Quotes

• "[21:46] Robert Evans: "But it's not like this doesn't happen, Right? Being forced to work an unreasonable amount because you're a foster child, Particularly a black foster kid."*

• "[33:15] Robert Evans: "It's not uncommon. There's a lot about his background that I don't feel any need to question because it happens to a lot of kids."*

• "[70:38] Katie Stahl: "And as a reminder, Steve Job washed his feet in the toilet."*

• "[72:14] Robert Evans: "Stealing your poop by making you think you need a toilet to disconnect you from the universe so you don't realize, you know, the evil schemes they're perpetuating."*

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Conclusion

The first part of this episode paints a vivid portrait of Elysio Bishop's descent from a troubled childhood into the chaotic world of cult leadership. His story is a testament to how personal trauma, combined with susceptibility to extremist ideologies, can forge a path toward infamy. As Bishop morphs into "Nature Boy," his blend of pseudo-scientific beliefs and online charisma sets the stage for his future as a significant, albeit malevolent, figure within modern cult dynamics.

Stay tuned for Part Two, where Robert and Katie will explore Bishop's rise within the conscious community and the full extent of his influence as Nature Boy.

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Recommended Resources

• Hood Horrors YouTube Channel: A detailed 17-part documentary series on Elysio Bishop, offering in-depth interviews and original content.

• Rolling Stone Article: Comprehensive reporting on Bishop's life, albeit with some contested claims.

• Behind the Bastards YouTube Channel: Visual content supplementing the podcast's narrative.

Transcript

[Katie Stahl]

Call Zone Media.

[Robert Evans]

Welcome back for Behind 24 from with behind the Bastards, a podcast. You know what it's about bad people. We tell you all about them. I'm Robert Evans and back once again on the show is arch guest, ace guest, Katie Stahl. How are you doing, Katie?

[Katie Stahl]

Oh, wonderful. Bad. Fine. I don't know. Pick a word. I'm doing it wonderful, man. All at once. It's just really hard to understand my emotions these days. But I'm here and I'm happy to be here.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I'm generally like, terrible. Okay. That's kind of the way I feel.

[Katie Stahl]

Like I'm bad, but there's a lot of people that are getting it a lot worse, so I'm fine.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, there you go. Bad. Other people are worse. Everything's good or bad. I don't know how everything is.

[Katie Stahl]

Everything's so dumb, dumb, dumb da dum dum.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, we used to have that as a theme song and then things got even dumber. You know what? I love it when people say, boy, you should still be doing your podcast, because the years just get worse. But obviously ever since Senator Sanders came after us, you know, there's, there's. We simply can't anymore.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, it's too much liability.

[Robert Evans]

Too much liability after that massive, massive lawsuit.

[Katie Stahl]

Well, that's what happens, I guess, when you out someone is killing JFK before the files are released.

[Robert Evans]

That's right. Obviously, the files that just got released look em up. Completely vindicate us. But, you know.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, but it is what it is.

[Robert Evans]

Unfair. It's unfair. You all lost a podcast and Katie and I both lost out on purchasing are yachts. So that's. That's a bummer. By yachts, I mean an exact replica of the boat from Jaws.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, but like a miniature version.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, very small. Very small. Like the Lego size one.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah. One can dream, though, someday. Robert, Robert, why did you not warn me about the images I'm going to have to show Katie in this podcast? I just scrolled and it's. You should have warned me.

[Robert Evans]

So we don't. We don't do stuff like that because then you wouldn't be surprised. And that's a big part of me enjoying the podcast that we do.

[Katie Stahl]

I know.

[Robert Evans]

I had to watch like fucking so many hours of this of motherfucking online documentaries about this guy because all of his stuff has been pulled off the Internet. Katie, we're doing a cult leader today. We're doing a. We're doing a new cult leader where, like, I mean, this guy's a Little older than me. But the cult is very much like Gen Z. Like, it's a very modern, like, social media driven cult. And it's kind of one of the most. You know, there was that document about those twin flames people that was a very, like, modern online cult. But this guy is like, this is a Facebook and Instagram cult leader that we're talking about today. That's how he builds everything.

[Katie Stahl]

Okay. The new school cult leader. I like it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause like back in the day, we've always had cults, but we used to have a lot fewer. Cause it was harder like 2,3000 years ago. If you wanted to start a cult, you had to just sit down and talk to a bunch of people and convince them of shit. And like, you know, maybe if you got really good, a couple of your followers would be good at talking and you could get them to travel around and like, talk. But that's.

[Katie Stahl]

You delegate that part.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And that's hard. You know, it is. And it's slow. And usually you get killed by the Romans before all of that works its way out. Right. Which is why Jesus was never able to buy the Green Bay packers, which, if you've read the Bible properly, you'll understand was his ultimate goal.

[Katie Stahl]

Absolutely.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. As. As it is mine. I'd be a good owner for the Packers.

[Katie Stahl]

Katie Robert, are you the second coming of Jesus?

[Robert Evans]

No, I'm the second coming of whatever guy was good at coaching the Packers. Okay.

[Katie Stahl]

I couldn't speak to that. I don't know.

[Robert Evans]

I just like the hats. I don't know much about the team anyway. You're listening to an iHeart podcast at Ameca Insurance. We know it's more than just a house. It's your home. The place that's filled with memories. The early days of figuring it out to the later years of still figuring it out for the place you've put down roots. Trust Amica. Home insurance.

[Katie Stahl]

Amika.

[Robert Evans]

Empathy is our best policy.

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[Robert Evans]

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[Katie Stahl]

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[Robert Evans]

As time has gone on. Cult leaders have always been on the bleeding edge of technology, right? Because the key thing in terms of making it possible for cult leaders to spread more effectively and for there to be more cults is that there are more ways with low barriers for people to reach large numbers of other human beings. Thousands of years ago, you had to get an elite following and hope some of those guys would be really good at talking and really loyal and would go spread the message, right? Just fucking difficult then, you know, if you, if you want to look at it this way, I think this is the right way to look at it. Cults are a lot like pornography in that they're always on the bleeding edge of technology because that's the only way they can stay profitable, right? Like porn will always adopt the new technology. That's going to be kind of the future before like mainstream Hollywood, right? Because Hollywood's got, they've got margins, you know, which is why you see, you know, 300 or million dollar movies every year that flop. And the industry doesn't quite go under because, like, well, you know, we have the ability to take some gambles here. Porn can't afford to gamble like that.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

So they really have to be. To be thinking true.

[Katie Stahl]

You gotta be adaptable in the porn industry.

[Robert Evans]

Absolutely.

[Katie Stahl]

You know, Robert, I've heard you share a lot of hot takes, but this might be my favorite one. Yeah. This comparison between cults in the porn industry.

[Robert Evans]

Yes.

[Katie Stahl]

Edge of technology.

[Robert Evans]

Always on the edge of technology. Right. And so, you know, Colts, the printing press. Huge for Colts. Right. Colts immediately figured out how to like, oh, we can now just put out our writing material or reading material however the fuck we want. Right. And then you get, you know, you get your Mormon churches and stuff like that. In part as a result of the fact that it's a lot easier to print stuff now. The radio makes it a lot easier to spread stuff. And obviously television, boy howdy, that really supercharges things, you know? And then you start getting all these. I mean, among other things, like the prosperity gospel, these different sort of like quote unquote, Christian churches that are all about, if you give me money to buy a jet, God will make your wildest dreams come true. You can't do that. That doesn't work very well through, like a magazine, right?

[Katie Stahl]

Oh, definitely not. You're not getting the same kind of return on investment there.

[Robert Evans]

It's the same thing with, like, if you have a creator that you listen to way too much, that person will probably have an unfair influence on you. Cause they're in your ears 100 hours a week. Right. And if you're attending one of these, like, big cult churches and doing it two or three times a week, and they're constantly talking about how you need to give them money to go to heaven, you'll probably do it. Right?

[Katie Stahl]

I would. I'm easily manipulated.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Yeah, we all are, actually. Is the real answer behind why do people do the things that they do? Well, we're kind of stupid and it's easy to fuck with us.

[Katie Stahl]

You're selling me a dream. I want that dream. Give me it.

[Robert Evans]

Look, we've all bought steaks from some guy's car at a certain point in our lives, right?

[Katie Stahl]

Who among us?

[Robert Evans]

Who among us? If you were ever dumb enough to buy a frozen steak or speakers from a guy's car, you are dumb enough to have fallen for something at some point. Right.

[Katie Stahl]

Especially on Instagram.

[Robert Evans]

That's why we need better education. Yeah. And, you know, you're kind of Getting to where we are now, which is like, yeah, the printing press, the radio, tv, all of that increased the reach different cults and cult leaders could have. But the Internet and most particularly social media, that has really given these people unprecedented power. And it's why we now live in a day and age where they basically run a lot of stuff. Right. If not everything. Right. Everything's kind of a cult these days because cults work, among other things. Like, there's this talk right now about the tariffs and people being like, oh, my God, finally his base is going to leave him because of the tariffs. And I'm like, I don't know if you guys have read about the different cults where a guy would tell everyone the world's ending on this day, and then it wouldn't. And then still a big chunk of the loyal core of the cult would be like, I guess we'll wait around for the next one. I don't know what else to do with my life.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, they're in too deep at this point. They still put out.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, that's the way it always is.

[Katie Stahl]

They're not leaving the cult. Even when, you know, they've been starving, they can't afford food, they're cut out. The roads have collapsed. They still put out clothes for L. Ron Hubbard.

[Robert Evans]

Well, and they should, because he's coming back. We all know that. Sophie, I've been saying, cancel Elrond. No, not lrh.

[Katie Stahl]

I can.

[Robert Evans]

And he would. He would have loved Tick Tock. That man would have been the best at Tick Tock. He would have been. Bo would have had such a good TikTok.

[Katie Stahl]

Honestly, we've all missed out. That could have been a beautiful thing for everyone.

[Robert Evans]

That's really the great, like, what if? Of history. Yeah, screw these people. Like, what if Hitler had been killed? No, what if L. Ron Hubbard had had access to TikTok and a billion people?

[Katie Stahl]

I think he would have bought TikTok.

[Robert Evans]

I think he would have bought TikTok. Yeah. Oh, my God, what a time. What if LRH had had TikTok and Ozembic? Nothing would have stopped him. So the Internet, and most particularly social media has presented. These would be cult leaders of our day with a tool of unprecedented power, the power of. We talked about back in the day, stochastic terrorism, Right. Which is trying to incite just random large groups of people in the hope that some amount of them actually carry out attacks. Well, stochastic messaging for cult leaders means that even if a cult leader of middling charisma and skill can Get a platform that reaches thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions or more people. The vast majority of those people, in any case, aren't going to actually do more than watch or read him. But if a percent of a percent does, that's more than enough to build the kind of following that can take care of you. Right? Sure. It's just a numbers game now. This week, we're gonna tell the story of a cult leader who got his start, dozens of followers and hundreds of thousands of dollars, all thanks to Facebook and Instagram. Our subject for this week is interesting in part because he's not very talented. Like, as a cult leader, like lrh we joke about, but Hubbard was really good at some things, and that's part of what makes his story really fun, is that, like, you are watching a man who knows his business fuck up the world. Right? This guy is not very good at anything. I don't think he's particularly bright, and I don't think he would have succeeded at creating a cult in any other period. This is a tale of a cult made possible by social media. And if your ambition is to start a cult of your own, I think these episodes would be a pretty good guide on how to do that. And you should do that. Go start a cult. Right. There's very rarely consequences. These episodes do end with consequences for this guy, but most of the time it doesn't.

[Katie Stahl]

You know, hopefully we can learn from his mistakes and how to do it more successfully.

[Robert Evans]

Learn from his mistakes. And remember, your goal should be the presidency, not an isolated compound where you have many, many sister wives. One of those ends better than the other, historically. Well, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. Still a lot of time for playing sister wife to be proven the wisest. Yeah, that's right. All right, so our bastard for this week is a guy named Elysio Bishop. He was born in Harlem, New York in 1982. Probably like most cult leaders, he lies constantly. And hard details about his early life are thin on the ground. The best and most expansive piece of traditional journalism about the man is an article Rolling Stone published earlier this year. Here's how it describes his earliest years. Bishop was born in Harlem in 1982 and said that he was a crack baby. The story of his upbringing he lays out in his social media videos is troubled. Efforts to get in touch with family members were unsuccessful. Now, this is a good.

[Katie Stahl]

Like to fact check it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. To be like, is any of this true? Right. Rolling Stone is like, we tried and we couldn't talk to them. I do like this article, and I respect it for providing, like, reasonably good context on a guy who's had basically nothing written about him beyond a few short news articles. And those are. Those are all focused on, like, you know, there's. There's a couple of specific crimes that he's involved in. And so they're all very much like, focused on those points in time. The Rolling Stone article covers those points, but it also tries to give a more detailed account of Bishop's life. And as a result, it's one of our better sources. But I will say it still gets some stuff wrong. And particularly the paragraph that I just read, I think is an example of why we can't use that as our primary source. And so the best source I found on this guy, weirdly Enough, is a YouTube channel called Hood Horrors, which has a little more than 4,000 subscribers. This is not a big channel. It seems to focus primarily on shady characters from what's called the conscious community, or black consciousness community, which is a subculture online that we'll discuss a bit later. And Hood Horrors did a 17 part series on Elysio, or Elysio, that is very fairly well edited and written and includes original interviews as well as extensive documentation of hundreds of hours of videos posted by his cult that have now been deleted. So it's the only place to get at least glimpses of a lot of the firsthand sources on this stuff. And I think they're coming at him from a more sympathetic angle than I am. Cause he's kind of a shady member of the broader community they're a part of. But they do a really good job of, I think, giving you details on his life. And it's, I gotta say, no shade on Rolling Stone. Cause their article was useful too. But it's the best single source on this guy. And they play audio of Alegio talking where he claims that he was born addicted to heroin as opposed to crack, which is what the Rolling Stone claimed. I don't know whether he was born addicted to heroin or crack or both. It's not impossible. Both are basically true.

[Katie Stahl]

And they're both bad. Let's be real. It sucks to be born addicted to anything.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Cause then you don't get all the fun of starting to do a drug. You know, that's the real tragedy here.

[Katie Stahl]

And then if your tolerance is already high as a baby, where do you go?

[Robert Evans]

I know, shit's gonna be so expensive by the time you're 30. Jesus.

[Katie Stahl]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Robert Evans]

Lay off.

[Katie Stahl]

Think about the fact that his life, he's gonna always be trying to chase a bigger high.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Katie Stahl]

That's how he got here.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. That is essentially this story here. So we've got one picture of his mom and dad. I don't even have his father's name, but as you can see from the photo, he was a lot older than her. Like, there's a sizable age gap in between these two people. And he dies of a heart attack right after Bishop is born. Sure.

[Katie Stahl]

He looks like he's right on the cusp of it.

[Robert Evans]

He looks like he's right on the edge. Yeah. Now, so after he dies, Patricia and her kids live in government housing. And one of Bishop's older sisters, who's about 7 years old at this time, said this about her recollections of their childhood. It wasn't all good memories, but it was a lot of good memories there. So, you know, he has kind of a weird situation with his dad. Money's not super, you know, common for them, but they have a pretty loving household, at least according to several of his siblings now. And this is where part of why I think Elysio is able to identify with Gen Z. Like, Gen Z, he comes into the world too late to have any recollections of the good times. You know, like, there's a period of time in which his parents are doing well, and he misses that entirely. A few months before his second birthday, CPS takes him and his siblings away from their mother. She had been a user of hard drugs for quite a while, and her use had escalated to the point where friends of the family had called the government about it. They were like. Like, she can't be alone with those kids. Right. And she overdoses fatally months after this. One of Alicia's later sisters, older sisters, later said she was street, and that's why she died so young. She died at 33. You can't be doing nothing but the street if you died at 33. So that's what the family says about this kid's mom. It is kind of worth noting that that's the account that he gives in videos years later, or that's the account that a member of his family gives in videos posted years later. He will claim to have no memory whatsoever of either of his parents, although there's some allegations that this is basically a defense mechanism. Right. Stop himself from feeling what happened to them as much perhaps. Makes sense. He and his siblings all become wards of the state after this. He's separated from all of his sisters, but he and his younger Brother Leo get to stay together for a while. They bounce from foster home to foster home, but they are repeatedly kicked out of each for fighting. So they get found by foster homes, he and his younger brother are taken in, and then they'll just beat the shit out of each other and get kicked out. Which first off, if you're a foster family taking in two young brothers, they're gonna beat each other up.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, like you got. You gotta take less issue with than if you're assaulting the foster parents or something.

[Robert Evans]

But yeah, you're. They're two little boys, they're gonna fight. So. This is enough of a problem though, that when Bishop is 7, the state finally separates him from his brother and he gets sent to a foster house in Queens that's run by a couple, Mr. And Mrs. Pope. And his younger brother Leo isn't there. Now, he will later claim that he was sexually abused while in this foster home. He alleges that he was molested and forced to engage in sexual behavior with other foster kids, while Mr. Pope took pictures of them. Statistically, this is not unheard of. An estimated 40% of foster kids endure some sort of abuse during their time in the system, and at least 4 to 5% of foster kids are sexually abused while in the system, a rate that raises significantly above the background level. And Bishop isn't the only witness here. But I don't see a whole lot of game gain for him to have lied about this. Right? Which, and the way this usually comes up is he's being interviewed on his own backstory for podcasts and YouTube streams by other creators within this consciousness subculture. And he'll talk a lot about his dad, mentally and sexually abusing him. He claims that as a result of the abuse, he began acting out, humping both boys and girls in school with his clothes on. At another point, he claims to have let a dog lick his penis, saying, I don't regret it either. Which is, you know, I mean, first off, you don't gotta tell people that story, man.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, that's what you can keep buttoned up.

[Robert Evans]

You can take that bad boy to the grave with ya.

[Katie Stahl]

Uh huh huh. Yep. There's plenty of things that don't need to be shared for sympathy or shock or what have you. But that's a thing he said, okay.

[Robert Evans]

Kids do a lot of weird things. And I try to be like, yeah, a lot of kids do weird shit, but you don't need to tell anyone that. That didn't need to be known. That didn't need to be Known.

[Katie Stahl]

Born with a penis. I don't know if that is something boys do.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I mean, you know, boys do stuff, but not that. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna say, obviously, he's not the first boy to do that. Right. That's a specific joke about kids putting peanut butter on their junk.

[Katie Stahl]

Sure.

[Robert Evans]

But it's also. It's not common. You know, of all of. All of the weird, fucked up things I knew other young dudes to do with their junk, none of them did that because it's a little weird.

[Katie Stahl]

A little weird. You know, a little boy. Okay, there's gonna be plenty of things in this.

[Robert Evans]

He's a little boy. He can't be blamed for it. Right. Like a small boy. Just, like, experimenting in a way that's weird. Like, you need to talk to him. You need to be like, hey, that's not something you could do. That's not something you could do to a dog. It's not something you should be doing to yourself.

[Katie Stahl]

There's some guidance needed, but guidance is necessary. But, yes, if we were to believe the story that he's laid out from his life, I will acknowledge that this is a very traumatic start to your.

[Robert Evans]

Not a lot of good guidance for this.

[Katie Stahl]

Not a good guidance.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And, you know, again, it's this situation where a lot. He frames this as a result of and reaction to the abuse he's experiencing from Mr. Pope. Right. And after some period of time, he works up the courage to report Mr. Pope to a social worker. And to the foster system's credit, which I won't say often here, he gets sent to live with someone else very quickly. Right now, the next family he's sent to is a foster family in the Bronx who had also adopted his younger brother, Leo.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Robert Evans]

And, yeah. So first off, the brothers are back again. That seems good. These people are stable. They live in the suburbs, They've got a large house, and they have at least an upper middle class amount of money. And so he's pretty happy there at first. Right. He describes later it was beautiful nature out there, and things are looking up. Right. Maybe we've got our Little Orphan Annie story coming together. You know, the sun's come up. It's tomorrow. Except for. No, it is not. As Bishop and Leo would both complain. It's still like with these people who had access to, you know, a lot more resources, they still weren't very nice or nurturing. Per Elysio. They wouldn't let me use a washing machine. We had to wash clothes by hand. He couldn't let me have my tight. My lights in my room. Like there was no light in my room. It was just a dresser in darkness. He has stated in other videos that one of his new foster parents told him it was because I was dark skinned. I was dirty. Ooh, yeah. Woo.

[Katie Stahl]

Okay, don't love any of that.

[Robert Evans]

Don't love any of that now. In interviews published by Hood Horrors, Leo has claimed that around this time he and his brother were both diagnosed with learning disorders, including add. Bishop claims that he was put on Ritalin. And Leo states that both brothers were moved to special ed because of all this. Where stories diverge is that Alicia's later gonna claim that this is all the result of a con done by his foster mother to get additional checks from the government for taking in two disabled boys. I don't think this is true. Foster parents do get a stipend that can increase if their kid has higher costs due to a disability. And these stipends cap out at a fairly low level. Although as rates vary from state to state, it's hard for me to say exactly how it goes. The general consensus online seems to be that there are no real stipends that will defray the cost in a super massive way. Yeah, yeah, it's just not gonna happen. Speaking of things that aren't gonna happen, me miss out on these products and services. This is an advertisement from BetterHelp. Mental health awareness is growing, but there's still progress to be made. A lot of people avoid seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment or stigma. And when people hesitate to get help, they're not the only ones who are affected. Their families, their loved ones and friends and whatnot. Their whole community is affected. So let's encourage everybody to take care of their well being and break the stigma. The world's better when people are healthy and happy. And obviously there are a lot of different ways to seek help and to explore therapy. BetterHelp is one of them. BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist from their diverse network of credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient. Serving over 5 million people worldwide. You can easily switch therapists anytime at no added cost. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse range of expertise. We're all better with help. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com behind that's betterhelp h-e l p.com behind not everyone who handles your personal information is going to be as careful as you are, and it only takes one mistake to expose it to hackers and identity theft. Maybe that's why there's a new victim of identity theft every five seconds in the United States. Fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen. A LifeLock US based restoration specialist will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed or your money back. Plus, all LifeLock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package, meaning Lifelock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan if you lose money due to identity theft. You can't control how diligent others are with your personal information, but with Lifelock you can help protect it. Act now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code BTB or go to lifelock.com BTB for 40% off terms apply.

[Katie Stahl]

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[Katie Stahl]

Visit a d d y I.com to learn more about Addy at Amica Insurance.

[Robert Evans]

We know it's more than just a car or a house. It's the four wheels that get you where you're going and the four walls that welcome you home. When you combine auto and home insurance with Amica, we'll help protect it all. And the more you cover, the more you can save Amica. Empathy is our best policy. Oh, we're back. So we're talking about how, you know, our boy here, Alicio Bishop, has been taken to. He's had a rough upbringing. Right. His parents are both dead. He's been moved to one foster home where he was sexually abused. And then he's been finally moved to another, which is a step up. It's with his brother. Right. These people live in the suburbs in a large house, they've got some amount of money. And he's happy at first, recalling in a later interview, it was beautiful nature out there, which I guess if you grew up in central New York City, the suburbs qualify as nature as. Sure, yeah, it's more nature. It is a lot more nature. There's some trees out there, right?

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

However, as both he and his brother would later complain, it still wasn't what you'd call a nice or nurturing environment. Per Elysio. They wouldn't let us use a washing machine. We had to wash clothes by hand. He wouldn't let me have lights in my room. Like there was no light in my room. It was just a dresser and darkness. Bishop has stated in other videos that one of his new foster parents told him this was because I was dark skinned, I was dirty and I don't know. Yeah, I mean, yeah. And you know, this is not like, again, he's not the only person who's expressed things like this about his upbringing. You know, you can find stories like this a lot. Not just connected to the foster system, but connected to the foster system, which has a lot of issues with it.

[Katie Stahl]

Absolutely.

[Robert Evans]

In interviews published by Hood Horrors, Leo, his brother, has claimed that around this time they were both diagnosed with learning disabilities, including addiction Alegio claims that he was put on Ritalin and Leo states that both brothers were moved to special ed because of all of this. That all seems pretty cut and dry. Where stories diverge is that Elysio, who's again our subject this week, the guy who becomes a cult leader, later claims that the ADD diagnosis and being moved to special ed is the result of a con by his foster mother to get added checks from the government for taking in two disabled boys. From what I have been able to read, this seems unlikely. There are stipends that you get for having a kid with a disability as a foster parent. But from what everything people say online, these stipends cap out at a fairly low level. And although rates do vary from state to state, the general consensus online seems to be that the best these stipends do is somewhat mitigate the cost of taking in a child who needs extensive medical care. And it's worth noting the things that these boys are being claimed of as having aren't the things that get you the highest dollar help. It's just add, right?

[Katie Stahl]

Like he doesn't. That's not, that's we're talking. It's not a disability, you know, maybe a learning disability.

[Robert Evans]

It's a learning disability, sure. Yeah. But it's not that. It's not a. It's that when you're talking about like the higher amounts of money that you can get as a stipend, it is for something like your kid needs constant life saving medical care, a wheelchair, to move on their own. And even then it's not much money. Right. It doesn't cover the cost of their actual healthcare. So it's the idea that like, especially since if you watch enough videos with this guy, I'm not surprised he's got ADD or you know, ADHD probably now is what he'd get diagnosed with.

[Katie Stahl]

I'll just say I have add.

[Robert Evans]

It's not uncommon. Yeah. There's a lot about his background that I don't feel any need to question because it happens to a lot of kids. I don't think he's being accurate about this conspiracy around him being given riddle.

[Katie Stahl]

Early 90s maybe riddle that felt like an early 2000s development based on Marvel.

[Robert Evans]

Of the late 90s. More of my, the people, my friends and family members were on Ritalin than weren't. So again, the idea that this had to be a conspiracy, I'm just not buying. Right. Like it's just not super rare for kids to have been on Ritalin back then.

[Katie Stahl]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Katie Stahl]

So I anyway, but this Is his story.

[Robert Evans]

This is his story. This is at least what he's gonna claim.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, well, I will, but I'm gonna wait to see.

[Robert Evans]

Partly our job. His brother doesn't make. His brother's just like, yeah, we had addiction.

[Katie Stahl]

What I'm not sure yet because we're gonna see where this is building. All of this is valid, horrifying, and this stuff happens. And I don't know how much this cult leader is milking or not milking, but, you know, leaning into something for the story of his personality.

[Robert Evans]

And that's why you have to go. I try to. When trying to determine how reliable different claims he makes are, I have to go to the evidence. Right, right. About 40% of kids in foster care will be. Will experience some kinds of abuse. Right. So the fact that he claims he was abused in foster care, I don't feel that he needed to be like, well, I don't know.

[Katie Stahl]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

That said, I found a lot of reporting on how inadequate the support supplemental income is for foster parents with disabled kids. And this all does vary from state to state. But like one article I found via Stat News quotes a foster mother in Missouri who says it is about it being these payments is about a third of what is actually spent out of pocket on taking care of a child. Right. So again, I just. I just don't see the evidence that this is a particularly likely scam. No, you don't get rich taking in disabled foster kids. Really. There are some weird scams here where people get in a bunch of kids and in fact to like, make them work for him, which we'll talk about in a second. But yeah, so. And again, I'm not saying like, these kids didn't both experience abuse. Given the number of families they pass through, it would be almost impossible for them not to have experienced a good number of abuse. A good amount of abuse.

[Katie Stahl]

Right, exactly. And just the fact, even outside of that being passed from home to home, the chaos of this is incredibly traumatic.

[Robert Evans]

So, yes, I try to have an open mind about this both. Cause I've read a lot of articles from foster parents who seem to be people of really goodwill talking about how inadequate the system is. And I've made over the course of the last 10 years of my life a lot of friends who were in foster care from an early age, none of whom like the system or feel good about it. All of whom feel very, very bad about how the system works. This is not. I'm not gonna. I don't. I'm not going to pretend this is A comprehensive look at it. But, like, it's really opened my eyes up to, like. I'm not gonna say this is a good thing that's being unfairly slandered. So I'm gonna try to. I'm gonna try to look at sort of. Of what seems likely based on the evidence vis a vis his claims. And he does make some other allegations about this foster family, which will be he and his brother's last, that are more credible. He claims his foster mom used him for free labor, making him work for hours in her garden and around the house as a quote, unquote slave. Leo's account comports somewhat with his brothers, although he doesn't compare it to slavery. He just says they were strict and they had to do a lot of chores, Right?

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

But it's not hard to find cases of foster parents using foster kids as unpaid labor. The most shocking recent, recent example of this is a case that just concluded in West Virginia. A couple, Jean K. Whitefeather, and her husband, Donald Lance, were convicted of forcing their five adopted children, all of whom were black, to work as slaves on their farm. They had started adopting kids from a shelter for vulnerable youths in Minnesota and then moved to Washington state and finally West Virginia in 2023. They were ultimately reported to the Kanawha county sheriff after a neighbor spotted Lance locking a girl and her brother in the shed. In a shed? Per NBC News. The sheriff's office said the two children in the shed had no running water or bathroom and had been deprived of adequate hygienic care and food. The children said they slept on the concrete floor and had been locked inside for 12 hours before they were found. Another girl was found inside the home. An indictment alleged that the couple targeted the children for forced labor because of their race. They were charged with human trafficking, child neglect, forced labor, and other crimes. And in a happy ish ending, they were convicted and sentenced to 215 and 160 years in prison, respectively. So that is a happy ish end. That's a happy ish ending. Like, yeah, that seems like about 200 years worth of prison. Yeah.

[Katie Stahl]

Okay, that's fair. But also, oof.

[Robert Evans]

Oof. So, again, I don't know if Elysio is telling the truth about this family, but it's not like this doesn't happen, Right? Being forced to work an unreasonable amount because you're a fo. Particularly a black foster kid. You can find more stories than the one I quoted here right now. Now, it's also worth noting that this last couple, that they live with owns a church. Right. And so these brothers are forced to go to Bible study and attend church regularly. And there's this mix of things where Elysio clearly learns how to be a preacher a lot about how people talk about religion. And it's going to make him very effective at talking about religion, at conversion, at the kind of shit a cult leader needs to do. Right. He gets kind of a crash course.

[Katie Stahl]

Speaking in general talking about religion, but also speaking to a group of people, being charismatic, being drunk.

[Robert Evans]

And when you see him talk, if you, like me, have just spent way too much time looking at different evangelical, like, you know, fringe sects and stuff, it's like, oh, yeah, no, I get where this comes from. Right. You know, again, folks, watch the movie Marjo if you want a little more of an education on that. Elysio claims that he was told several times he was a demon and that he became scared of his reflection in the mirror. You hear this a lot from kids who are. Stuff like this a lot from kids who are raised evangelicals. So I feel no need to like, like, question that claim. Yeah. So he has also alleged that these last foster parents physically, although not sexually, abused him. His younger brother feels a little differently. And I think this may just be them both interpreting the same thing differently because his brother Leo has acknowledged that they were both spanked regularly when they misbehaved. But he doesn't describe this as abnormal or extreme. And it may not have been. Right. There's a lot, like, it's always bad to hit kids, you know, Also, it's pretty normal to spank kids, right?

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And so the fact that Elysio calls this abuse and Leo doesn't, I don't see it necessarily as a discrepancy in what happened.

[Katie Stahl]

I don't either. That's up for interpretation. Also, Leo's little brother Leo, he was already in this house prior.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Katie Stahl]

He went in a little earlier and also a younger. So maybe his experience was different. Or again, maybe he's leaning into the story for the narrative of his life either way.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Or maybe it's the kind of thing where, yeah, they were both spanked, and that's not good. You shouldn't hit kids for any reason. But also, like, Elysio's kind of upselling it to have. Because having the super. Right. And, like, he doesn't need to. His background's very sad.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Katie Stahl]

But it's the narrative. But I also understand that there's different room for different interpretations. And the older child might have more of a brunt, too.

[Robert Evans]

Absolutely. I wouldn't qualify what I did as like, particular. Again, it was not excessive for. But I definitely got spanked more than my brother because during the time when I am older than my brother and during the time when I was a kid, it was more normal. Right. And my parents changed as society changed on that matter. Right.

[Katie Stahl]

I got by my parents the way people do, you know, because I was an angel.

[Robert Evans]

Right? You were perfect. Of course. We were always talking about this, Katie.

[Unknown]

No, it's.

[Katie Stahl]

Cause it changed the baby. By the time I was around, they didn't feel as good about it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, there's a number of things that are possible here, but I don't see any reason for him to be. And we do have to, like, I'm not trying, like, you do have to litigate a cult leader's backstory, even when it is this sad, because, like, they lie about a lot of stuff. They're cult leaders, you know, like. So I think I'm hoping that we're doing like a fair enough job of being like, this is probably true. This one there's less evidence for, you know. Elysio says that the abuse he endured is what inspired him to begin committing petty crimes and running away. He would periodically be gone for days at a time, during which he would do stuff like just steal cars for the hell of it, commit petty robberies, burglarize houses and cars. I have relatives who had severe ADHD who did stuff like this. So again, I. Like this does all seem pretty consistent. He was arrested several times. Quote, I got locked up for everything. I was so young. I was committing so many crimes. And again, this is the kind of thing if you're white, if your parents have money, this doesn't last on your record. He's not, you know, all those parents do have some money. After this cycle repeated itself a few times during his adolescence, he was finally convicted and sentenced to five years of juvenile detention, which is where he spends the remainder of his time as a child. Right. The rest of his. The last five years of his childhood, I mean, and his first year of adulthood, really, he spends incarcerated. At age 16, he is sent from a juvenile detention area to East Jersey State Prison. So they're like, well, at 16, you're ready for the adult prison. And this we can absolutely verify happens. Right. And this is awful, deeply abusive by the system, by the state. No, kids should not go to prison, I don't really think ever. Like, 16 year olds aren't adults. You shouldn't treat them that way. Even when they do horrible stuff, you know, even when they're committing murders, they're still not adults, you know, but this is the way the government is.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, you can do a whole episode on that.

[Robert Evans]

We have done several.

[Katie Stahl]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. The juvenile. The juvenile offender system is just bastards all the way down. It's like a fucking hedgerow of evil.

[Katie Stahl]

It is disgusting.

[Robert Evans]

You couldn't drive a fucking tank through it. So this is where he's gonna spend the rest of his childhood. He describes this as a desperate and miserable time during which he repeatedly tried to kill himself. He was transferred to the prison psych ward for some time as a result. I have no trouble believing this. This is an extraordinarily common story. Suicide is at large just among all young people in the United States, the third leading cause of death. And being a youth in custody substantially increases your odds of attempting suicide or succeeding at it. Incarcerated children complete suicide between two and four times as often as youth in the general population. It is worth noting the evidence suggests that the kind of kids who wind up in custody are also likelier to have struggled with suicidal ideation before incarceration. More than one third of juvenile detainees report thinking of suicide in the six months prior to detention, and that number is almost 50% for female determination detainees.

[Katie Stahl]

Wow. None of that's shocking.

[Robert Evans]

No, no, it's worth. It's always worth bringing up. Right. People should always have this, be reminded of this. But, yeah, it's not at all. If you are casually aware of how any of this works, you're like, yup, yeah. He's ultimately released in 2001, after his 19th birthday, he goes back. So again, by the time he is an adult in the free world, quote unquote, for the first time, he spent about a quarter of his life behind bars. So not great. Slightly more than a quarter, if I'm remembering my tipping math, which is the only math I know how to do. Alegio goes back to live with his family for a while, this foster family for a while. But for what should be obvious reasons, that doesn't go well. Right. He's ultimately kicked out. At least that's his story. Maybe it was more of a. I've heard some versions of it, that he chose to leave. I don't know. I don't think it matters all that much. Thankfully, he has made contact with several of his siblings at this point, from which he's been estranged since he was very young. Right.

[Katie Stahl]

The sisters and stuff.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, his sisters. And they seem to. They're doing their best for their little brothers. Right. That's the. That's the feeling I get because he couch surfs with several of them for different periods of time. It never lasts. He is very hard to live with. And he is. I just given. Based on what happens later, I have no trouble believing a pretty abusive person to live with. They really are trying. It sounds like based on both his account and the accounts that you get from other members of the family that, like, they do attempt. He couch surfs with his sisters for a while. He couch surfs with an old friend, and kind of between the two of them, he is able to gradually, over several months, make his way from New York City down to South Philly. This is where he gets his first adult job as a security guard. And he seems to feel good enough about this that he decides the army is a good place for me, which. Okay, a lot of people make a decision like this. And, you know, outside of the whole problem of what the army does, you know, imperialism, all that good stuff, I do know a lot of people who will tell you quite out both, I don't recommend other people join the Army. And I would have killed myself if I hadn't joined the army or the Marine Corps or whatever. I would have wound up dead. Right. That's a very.

[Katie Stahl]

Just a parachute for them. It's something to go do. But, yeah, you wouldn't be.

[Robert Evans]

It's something to go do. And I know people who, like, because their parents. Because they had no. No one who told them how to be an adult. Being in the military and having older people as mentors who are like, here is how you exist in the world as a person was something they desperately needed. Right. So sometimes it does work out to people for people. This is. Yeah.

[Katie Stahl]

So he's. This is post 2001. It's not a great time to join the Army.

[Robert Evans]

Not a great time to join the Army. One of the worst times. I don't know that it would have gone well for him, but he's not allowed to stay. And I'm gonna quote from that right up Rolling Stone quote. He has said he completed basic training, but was discharged when the army learned of his psychiatric treatment. Okay. And this is again, if he had tried a few years later, they probably would have kept him because during, like, the surge, right, they were. They were letting a lot of dudes with sketchy histories like, yeah, we just need bodies. You want to take a samurai sword and a share, fuck it, go like. That's a literal thing that happened. That's an actual guy that said, you know, if you are unable, if the army won't take you in like 2002, you probably don't have a lot of jobs you can get hired for. Right. Like that's just a reality. And he's gonna spend the next several years of his life on the verge of homelessness, desperately pivoting from one gig and location to the next. He signs up with the job corps, but he leaves very quickly. He hooks back up with his little brother Leo, who's an adult now, and they move to New York City with one of his older sisters for a while until she kicks him out. Or they have a fight and they leave. They wind up in Augusta, Georgia next, where they crash with another sister. And again, just a shatteringly common story for people who come from this kind of socio. Who are orphaned, who grow up super poor, who wind up in the foster system. Stuff like this is not right now. There's a lot of people who have had experiences like this and most of them don't become abusive cult leaders like Alicia. Right.

[Katie Stahl]

Important context.

[Robert Evans]

He gets his next full time job at this point, working six days a week at a slaughterhouse house. Probably not good for his mental health. One of the worst jobs you can do, I say this is someone who slaughters animals. Like slaughter housework is just a nightmare. Right. He starts drinking and smoking weed constantly as a coping mechanism for the. How traumatizing doing this job is. Yeah, yeah. It's about. I mean my mom used to. Because she had a donut shop that, you know, bankrupted the family. But like when. That's some of my earliest memories. And she would deliver to the Tyson chicken plant near Idabel, Oklahoma. And that you could smell that place from a half hour away. Right. Like I can't, like. And she always just left after delivering it looking haunted. It's just a bleak thing to have to do.

[Katie Stahl]

Absolutely. You won't catch me anywhere near a slaughterhouse.

[Robert Evans]

No.

[Katie Stahl]

If I can help it.

[Robert Evans]

Avoid factory farmed meat people if you can. Which, you know, often you can. Although everything's getting more expensive. I don't know. Do whatever you can do.

[Katie Stahl]

Do what you can.

[Robert Evans]

I'm not your boss.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, just do your best.

[Robert Evans]

It's miserable work. So he starts taking drugs a lot more. You get the feeling, I think this might be a guy who is schizotypal. I don't know that he's been diagnosed with that. It's just because of some of the things that happened later. Either way, the fact that he starts smoking weed is not going to be good for Him. Neither is the drinking. He increasingly has issues controlling his anger. During one argument with his older sister, he punches her in the face and she kicks him, but not his little brother, out of the house.

[Katie Stahl]

House.

[Robert Evans]

So again, this is a guy. I don't know if this is the first physical violence that he uses on someone close to him, but this is the first kind of documented case. It's going to be a pattern in his life. And so Bishop's going to spend the next several weeks living on the street. He's outright homeless now until a friend of his. And it's kind of unclear from the interviews I've heard a lot of this comes from interviews pieced together by that Hood Horrors YouTube channel, which again, you should check out. This guy doesn't have a lot of followers, but is very good at what he's doing. I really recommend. It's like a 17 part series. So by far I've done my best. That Rolling Stone article is good. The Hudaharas piece is by far the most detailed history of this guy. If you find yourself really interested in everything that's happened with this cult. But it is a long. It's like nine or ten hours of content.

[Unknown]

It's a commitment.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So again, he gets invited by this friend of his to come crash in Atlanta. He manages to get work as a barber. And one of the things that you're getting from this, in addition to the bad stuff, is that he must be pretty charming to a lot of people because he does keep getting invites with people to stay with him and crash with him. A lot of folks, including people who aren't his blood relatives, try to help him. Right?

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. All these people that let him couch surf or crash. There's gotta be a reason.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, there's gotta be a reason. Right? This isn't a guy who is like a purely toxic force to the people in his life, otherwise he wouldn't be getting these opportunities. Opportunities, right. So he gets some work as a barber for the first time during this period. And he's able to like make a living at it. He has some skill at this. But barbering doesn't pay a lot, or at least the way he's doing it. He's not making good money, obviously. I know some people do quite fine with it. So he starts basically flirting, being a sugar baby for women who have more money than him, which is basically every woman. He has almost no money. At point this, this point he says, quote, I used my body, I used my looks in order to get money and access to cars from various women. He also starts selling weed to supplement his lifestyle. And as you'll see, you know, some people are just kind of naturally jacked. Like, they have to work out some, but like, working out a fairly minimal amount, eating an okay diet, they're just shredded. He's one of those people, right? Being. Being jacked is. Comes fairly easily to him. You know, he's never doing well enough to afford his own place at this point or. And this is me reading in between the lines a little bit. I think it might be more that he is unwilling to spend any of his money on rent. So he's always living with someone, usually a girlfriend, who he inevitably cheats on constantly. And this is how he winds up for the third time, homeless because he gets kicked out of the house for cheating. The desperation of this situation convinces him to take an offer that he had been given by someone else to start stripping at a gay strip club. He describes himself as going gay for pay. And, you know, I. Sophie will show you some photos here. There's documented evidence of him at this point as a dancer, as a stripper and a sex worker. He claims, quote, I was the number one dancer that was hosting the shows in every gay arena in Atlanta. I can't verify this, but like. Yeah. So how would you describe this guy looking from those what Sophie shows showing? Like, he's pretty hot. He's pretty hot. Like, he's. He's. He's yoked. You know, he's a good looking.

[Katie Stahl]

That does look good. Bone structure in his face works out. Oiled up.

[Robert Evans]

He knows how to dress. Like, he looks pretty good.

[Katie Stahl]

See people throwing some dollars.

[Robert Evans]

I could. I can see I. When he. It's one of those things. I don't know if he was the number one male stripper in Atlanta, but like, yeah, I could see him doing gay male stripper. I could be like, I could see him doing pretty well. Yeah.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

I don't have trouble believing that he's. This is something he's able to, like, do quite well at. His stripper name is Tyson for Tyson Beckford.

[Katie Stahl]

I forgot one image.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, what's that? Oh, is it the naked one where he's holding the water bottle over his cock?

[Katie Stahl]

Okay, why'd you forget that one?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, because, I mean, that's a good one.

[Katie Stahl]

It was on a sec. It was on a separate page.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, well, you'll pull that up. There we go. There we go. Yeah.

[Katie Stahl]

Looks like a lot of people's Tinder profile right there.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, if you're lucky. Jesus. If you're lucky, you'll see the T pendant he's wearing. That's because his stripper name is Tyson. For Tyson Beckford, who is a Jamaican American actor and model who hosted two seasons of Make Me a Supermodel and was one of Ralph Lauren's big male models for years. I don't know much about the model industry, but what I read casually says he's one of the rare male models who is like, as big as some of the biggest female models. Right. In terms of, like, his income.

[Katie Stahl]

I've heard that name before.

[Robert Evans]

He's very big. He's a big deal. Alegio suggests, insists that he was and is entirely straight and that this was a purely mercenary arrangement for him. That said, he doesn't actually seem to be like, homophobic or transphobic. So there's that. I guess there's that. Good for him.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah. He's not completely rotten inside. That's cool.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, he's just not. I don't think he has any personal care about that whatsoever. He's certainly not a super judgmental guy when it comes to that stuff.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Speaking of people who won't judge you, our sponsors will never judge you.

[Katie Stahl]

They would never. They would never dream of it.

[Robert Evans]

They're the only people who love you and the only people you can trust. I think we can all agree on that. Certainly no argument from anyone. Why would you argue?

[Katie Stahl]

Hi, it's Jenny Garth. We all know the importance of taking care of our physical and mental health. Health. But what about our sexual health? I've been there, feeling totally stuck when it comes to my libido. That's why I started taking addi. And let me tell you, I have seen firsthand what a difference it can make in how you feel. ADDI is the only FDA approved pill clinically proven to help certain premenopausal women have more interest in sex, have more satisfying sex, and lower the stress from low labor libido. ADDI has helped hundreds of thousands of women get their drive back, including me. Talk to your doctor or visit a d d y I.com to learn more about Addie the little Pink Pill. Individual results may vary.

[Unknown]

Addy or Flanserin is for pre menopausal women with acquired Generalized Hypoactive Sexual Desire disorder, hsdd who have not had problems with low sexual desire in the past who have had low sexual desire. No matter the type of sexual activity, the situation, or the sexual partner, this low sexual desire is troubling to them and is not due to a medical or mental health problem, problem, relationship or medicine or other drug use. Addi is not for use in children, men or to enhance sexual performance. Your risk of severe low blood pressure and fainting is increased if you drink one to two standard alcoholic drinks. Close in time to your Addi dose. Wait at least two hours after drinking before taking Addi at bedtime. This risk increases if you take certain prescriptions, OTC or herbal medications, or have liver problems and can happen when you take Addi without alcohol or other medicines. Do not take if you are allergic to any of addi's ingredients. Allergic reaction may include hives, itching or trouble breathing. Sometimes serious sleepiness can occur. Common side effects include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep and dry mouth. See full PI and medication guide including boxed warning@ addy.com PI addy.

[Katie Stahl]

Visit a--y.com to learn more about Addy.

[Robert Evans]

At Ameca Insurance we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carport for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Amica Auto Insurance Amiga Empathy is our best policy.

[Unknown]

Not everyone who handles your personal information.

[Robert Evans]

Is going to be as careful as you are, and it only takes one.

[Unknown]

Mistake to expose it to hackers and identity theft.

[Robert Evans]

Maybe that's why there's a new victim.

[Unknown]

Of identity theft every five seconds in the United States. Fortunately, there's Life LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity.

[Robert Evans]

If your identity is stolen, a LifeLock.

[Unknown]

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[Robert Evans]

Identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed or your money back.

[Unknown]

Plus, all LifeLock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package, meaning LifeLock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan. If you lose money due to identity theft. You can't control how diligent others are with your personal information, but with Lifelock.

[Robert Evans]

You can help protect it. Act now and save up to 40% your first year.

[Unknown]

Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off terms apply. Millions of people have turned to Claude, the AI assistant from Anthropic because it just feels different. Where other AIs often sound a little robotic, Claude has been designed with special research that informs its character. Character, meaning that Claude just gets it. When it comes to empathy and emotional intelligence, that's why Claude has become the if you know, you know, choice for dating advice, career coaching, gathering your thoughts for those important life decisions, and more. Give Claude a try for free at Claude.com. that's C-L-A-U-E.com and let us know how you feel the difference.

[Robert Evans]

We're back and we're talking about. About this fucking guy.

[Katie Stahl]

This fucking guy.

[Robert Evans]

Things are starting to go well for him. He's making good money. He also continues serially dating women. And he gets one of these ladies pregnant with a child, Alicia Jr. And he seems to have no further contact with this kid beyond naming him. Soon after this, he gets another lady pregnant, Maisha. Maisha has two kids. Prior to meeting him, they get together and start living in the same home. And he names their son Osiris. And he does spend some time with this kid trying to parent him. And he'd been doing pretty well, okay, at least financially before, but now he is effectively taking care of both. You know, this first kid that he seems, I think he sends some money to, I'm sure he's not totally up on his child support. He's supporting this second kid, and he's helping Maisha support her other kids. And he finds himself strapped, right? The stripper money is not alone enough for this. So he starts working as a. Like an escort, right? A gay escort. And like, you know, he's now having sex for pay, Right? And he also stars in at least one pornographic film. I suspect there are more, knowing how that industry works, but we have documentation of at least one. This is not easy for him. He begins drinking more heavily, and when he gets drunk, he is often physically violent. This comes to a head in 2011, and I want to play a segment of Maisha and Elysio both discussing the incident, which is part of that Hood Horrors documentary. There were other videos where this was related, but they've been pulled from the Internet, So this documentary is the only place I can find it. Again, I really do recommend watching the Rise and Fall of Nature Boy, Alicia Bishop, which is like 17 parts at this moment. But, yeah, here's a brief clip of them talking about this incident.

[Katie Stahl]

Look out the window.

[Robert Evans]

He's stabbing my tires to my car.

[Katie Stahl]

So I go to the door. He, like, come outside. I'm like, nah, like, you've been drinking.

[Robert Evans]

I know you.

[Katie Stahl]

I don't do you with alcohol. Like, go ahead. He pulls me outside, and I was holding on to the door.

[Robert Evans]

So when I held on to the door, I closed it.

[Katie Stahl]

Then he grabbed me, dragged me down the stairs. He got on top of me. He was beating my face and I.

[Robert Evans]

I don't know how.

[Katie Stahl]

The police just pulled up in the yard. They put him on top of me.

[Robert Evans]

And they pulled him off of me when I was hitting her. A cop came out of nowhere. A copy pulls me off.

[Katie Stahl]

Cuz I'm trying to.

[Robert Evans]

I'm trying to fucking murder her.

[Katie Stahl]

Wow.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So not great.

[Katie Stahl]

I hate him.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Not great. He gets arrested. Yeah. For aggravated battery. Sounds like fair charges based on, you know what they say and what he.

[Katie Stahl]

Admits he was trying to fucking kill her.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And the police report notes that Maisha had severe swelling over her left eye the size of a. A fist, a laceration behind her left ear, marks on her upper body and her pajama pants were torn. He faced 20 years in prison. But by the time. It took about a year for the case to come around to trial, by which point Myesha and him had reconciled. She writes the letter, a judge in his favor. Bishop takes a plea deal that includes probation and a thousand dollar fine, but no prison time. And again, it's this thing where like they make up. He apologizes. He says that he had promised the universe that if it got him off for these char. I would never hit another woman. I should note that he says this in a live stream years later. And in that livestream, he immediately adds, I lied. Because he becomes very convinced that men abusing women is an important thing philosophically, but that's in the future, you know. At this point, Maisha takes him back. They're still living together. He does make some changes after this all. Although I don't know how you'd categorize these. He claims. And again, these are his allegations that are not verified. He claims he befriended a wealthy biblical scholar named Dr. Mike Brown. Dr. Mike Brown is a real person with a Wikipedia and everything. He is a messianic Judaism guy, which is people who believe. It's like they think that they're a kind of Jews that accept Jesus as the Messiah. It's a very problematic thing. I'm not going to get into it. He's a major Christian Zionist. He does have a real PhD in Bible stuff. He's got a pretty messy history in terms of shit. He said he's held anti pride rallies. He has claimed homosexuality is caused by childhood trauma. He has in the past supported conversion therapy and Uganda's criminalization of homosexuality. Reality. He's also claimed not to be anti gay. But I don't know if this is an example of him having Softened or just lying? I don't. I don't know. You know, it's. It's. He's definitely has said some really fucked up shit. He has been accused of sexually inappropriate behavior by a female employee and he denies these allegations. Aligio has apparently claimed that the two had a clandestine relationship and that for years Dr. Brown paid him $3,000 a month as an alarm allowance and also fronted him the money he needed to start his own barber shop. He starts his own barber shop around this time. He has money from somewhere. I have no. I'm saying this because this is a thing you can get sued over, and I absolutely do not want to be misreporting this. There is no outside verification or confirmation of any kind that his allegations against Dr. Brown are true. Nor have I come across similar allegations against Brown. Again, the allegations against. Against him are that he is abusive to a female colleague. Right. Not that he's hiring male prostitutes or doing a sugar boy. Those are not allegations I hear anywhere else from him. So I am telling you this because these are the things that Aligio claims, not because there's outside verification of this. I don't know, Robert.

[Katie Stahl]

You guys, he's doing his best, really.

[Robert Evans]

Trying to state what the actual known facts are, are here. What we do know is that he gets enough money to start a barber shop. It is not a small shop. He hires a team of barbers. Photos make it look like more than a dozen chairs in the shop. And it does fairly well. It seems to be a pretty successful business. He starts to make good money during this, and he's, you know, this business is supporting a decent number of people. He lets his little brother live in the back. He won't let him be a barber, but he'll let him sweep up after. I don't know why.

[Unknown]

Interesting.

[Robert Evans]

Leo seems pissed about it, so things are going pretty well. But this is a grind. You know, running a small business is not easy. I've never heard anything that makes it sound like barbershop is an easy kind of business to run. And he grows exhausted with the grind and starts getting obsessed with the idea of living closer to nature and dropping out of society. Who amongst us? Right. Guilty. Common thing to desire. Yes. Yeah. Not a weird story. Unfortunately, he starts to explore this by meeting a bunch of, like, hippies on the Internet and watching YouTube videos from different creators in the black consciousness community, which we'll talk about in more detail, but it essentially mixes. This is a subculture. The black consciousness or conscious community online is a subculture. Just sort of a collection of YouTubers. There's some podcasters, some rappers, rappers who have this mix of like, very standard hippie, back to the land style ideology with also an education on like, the history of racism in the United States that is unfortunately mixed with stuff that gets scammier, like, quote, unquote, natural health and astrology. And from what I can tell, it's a broad subculture. So depending on who you get obsessed with as a creator in this, you might wind up learning about both, like, you know, organic farming and making human manure and stuff, all of which are wonderful things. And alongside, like, the destruction of black Wall street and Tulsa and the MOVE bombing. Right. Very real conspiracy theories. But there's also a sizable chunk of this community where you will learn some very not real conspiracy theories. Right.

[Katie Stahl]

It's so tough. There's a slippery slope and there's different communities. It's like, yeah, I want to take that, but not that you.

[Robert Evans]

And it's difficult when, like, so much of it is about, like, this is a largely black community talking about, like, the history of racism against, like, institutionalized bigotry against black people in the United States. There's so many real conspiracies. And it's also, once you hear about those, easy for a lot of people to get pulled into the stuff that's not so real.

[Katie Stahl]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Robert Evans]

He gets really interested in black Israelite stuff, which is basically black people are the lost 13th tribe of Israel or whatever. He gets into a lot of anti vaccine stuff, which is adjacent to a lot of, you know, to at least elements of this subculture. Aligio's loved ones at the time mostly describe him obsessively watching videos about conspiracy theories and natural health. And particularly when Maisha talks about this, she always says he's watching conspiracy theory videos. Okay, he buys an rv. Never a good sign. Never a good sign. If your friend, like, drops out of social interaction, spends months watching YouTube videos, and then buys an RV, you need to intervene. He's about to do something bad.

[Katie Stahl]

These are red flags.

[Robert Evans]

These are red flags. That said, in this particular case, this is more a sign of where things are going. The RV itself doesn't end too badly. He and Myisha live on the road for a month and try to just like, let other people run the barber shop, but they're bad at it. And so he's forced to come back from Florida to stop it from going out of business. Business. Once he's back to try to keep himself interested in the barbershop, he sets up a Stage there, which initially he's like. So local acts can play, right? People can do standup or musicians can do stuff. He gives out liquor and beer and stuff, which is not super uncommon for a barbershop. So he's trying to make it into a community space. But that becomes him primarily using that stage to give speeches that are rants about his different pet stories, theories. And at this point, he's embraced a couple of specific theories. One of them, and this is an older pre existing theory, is the idea that higher amounts of melanin in the skin can correlate directly to higher iq. Right. The more melanin you have, the smarter you are. And kind of what goes with that is exposing yourself to sun by spending as much time nearly naked outdoors as possible makes you smarter. Right?

[Katie Stahl]

Okay.

[Robert Evans]

He also starts to believe that bathing is bad for you. You don't need to bathe if you eat only fruit or other foods that don't make you smell. This is a thing Steve Jobs believe, believed. No one else agrees with this. And he also.

[Katie Stahl]

And as a reminder, Steve Job washed his feet in the toilet.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yes. Now, that is something Elysio would not do. Because Elysio believes toilets are evil. He comes to insist and believe very strongly that pooping and peeing indoors is one of the greatest evils you can perpetuate because they make you. By doing that, you are robbing nature. Right. Of your critical medical, you know, of nutrients and stuff. I want to play a clip of him talking that was republished by Hood Horace. This is from. All of his stuff has been taken off the Internet after the things that we'll talk about in part two happened. So it's hard to find a lot of this. These different kind of documentaries online about him are some of the only sources remaining, which is why I'm going back to this documentary. I do want to again continue to, you know, shout out the rise and fall of nature boy. Alicio Bishop on Hood Horrors. It is a really good piece of work. But here is him talking years later, later explaining his theories about poop. So this gives you an idea. This is filmed later, but it gives you an idea of, like, the kind of shit he's saying in his rants at this barbershop.

[Katie Stahl]

They showed me, like, where to use.

[Robert Evans]

The bathroom, which we all use the.

[Unknown]

Bathroom in the backyard.

[Katie Stahl]

This is not shit poop. Nah, it's very sacred when you eat.

[Robert Evans]

Right, you eat the right thing, you.

[Katie Stahl]

Eat from the earth, it is no.

[Robert Evans]

Longer toxic waste, it is organic, it is soil. You get the fruit, you Eat the fruit, it eats the soil. This is how you give back. The government is taking this and putting in the toilet and stealing it and.

[Katie Stahl]

Disconnecting you from the universe and stealing it.

[Robert Evans]

Stealing? Yes, the government stealing. Stealing your poop by making you think you need a toilet to disconnect you from the universe so you don't realize, you know, the evil schemes they're perpetuating.

[Katie Stahl]

I guess there's key words and phrasing in there of like, sacred, the government. And it's just leading into the conspiracy of it and the religious.

[Robert Evans]

And here's the thing. Like, I actually have a lot of friends and have spent a lot of time myself using stuff like composting toilets. Right. I've lived on and I have spent a lot of time on, you know, in properties where people are like, very close to a closed loop. I have known and know people who do the very close to zero impact environmentally. Like, they produce all their own food, they turn all of their own waste. It is possible. It's a lot of work. It is much more complicated. And I want to. And I say that because I want to make it very clear. He is not saying you should make your poop into human manure. He is not an advocate for utilizing any of this waste in any way. He just thinks you should only shit in the backyard.

[Katie Stahl]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

That is very important for you to understand.

[Katie Stahl]

It's a big difference.

[Robert Evans]

And he is not.

[Katie Stahl]

I don't know that much about it, but there are some hygiene issues here. There's plenty.

[Robert Evans]

We would all die if society did this.

[Katie Stahl]

I know that there are better places to poop in nature than others. Yes, that it can't. It could have negative consequences.

[Robert Evans]

If our whole society committed to, like, a function, functional, extensive humanure program. Sure, that would be better than what we do. But if everyone just pooped in the yard, we would all get sick and die. Because it's bad to just poop in the yard.

[Katie Stahl]

And in general, probably you. Bad for the.

[Robert Evans]

Bad for the yard.

[Katie Stahl]

The Bad for the yard.

[Robert Evans]

It's not good to just shit everywhere for the environment either. Yes.

[Katie Stahl]

Also, if it's not toxic when you eat all the.

[Robert Evans]

I don't know that none of this is accurate. After one of these rants where he's just talking about how the government's stealing your poop, a former regular at the barbershop asks him, hey, man, you used to give. Just give us drinks when we came to get a haircut. What happened to the drinks? What?

[Katie Stahl]

This is changing.

[Robert Evans]

He is not happy at the barber Shop. The barbershop's not super happy with him. And in short order, he works at a deal to basically give away sell his ownership of the barbershop in exchange for an ongoing interest in the business to somebody he's already committed himself to begin copying the conscious community figureheads he'd grown obsessed with. And he'd even thought up a new name for himself. And from this point forward, he no longer goes by Elysio Bishop. He now uses a new name, Nature Boy. And we will be talking about that and his growth into a significant figure within the conscious community in part two. How you feeling so far, Katie?

[Katie Stahl]

I'm feeling great. I'm excited to hear what happens to Nature Boy.

[Robert Evans]

I'll tell you one thing. A lot of people pooping in bathroom backyards.

[Katie Stahl]

That's the stuff.

[Robert Evans]

There we go.

[Katie Stahl]

Beatles song.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, that's right. Wait, is that a Beatles song?

[Katie Stahl]

I don't know.

[Robert Evans]

There's a lot of Beatles song. I don't know.

[Katie Stahl]

I just think it is Mother Nature's son. Mother Nature's son. Different. A little bit different. I just think of a former side character on behind the Bastards. Ric Flair.

[Robert Evans]

That's right. Oh, yeah, Ric Flair. The nature boy also, I think pissed on a chair or something at one point in that story, if I remember remembering right. So, you know, similar guys.

[Katie Stahl]

Maybe I was thinking of when he was part of that.

[Robert Evans]

Or maybe someone pissed on his chair.

[Katie Stahl]

Well, he was part of the. He was one of the ones that was in the. The adoption scandal where he was just kidnapped.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah. He was stolen as a baby.

[Katie Stahl]

Yes, for sure.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, he was definitely stolen as a baby.

[Katie Stahl]

Flare comes back is what I'm saying.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Yes. All right, everybody. Katie, you want to plug your pluggable here real quick?

[Katie Stahl]

Oh, sure. Well, you can find me over at some more news with Cody Johnston. We now have three episodes a week. Well, we've got two podcasts and then the main show, YouTube show. And you can check us out there. We've got a patreon. We've got all the things. That's it. Go do that.

[Robert Evans]

Yep. All right, well, everybody go poop in your backyard.

[Katie Stahl]

Don't do that. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube.com behindthebastards.

[Unknown]

Millions of people have turned to Claude, the AI assistant from Anthropic, because it just feels different. Where other AIs often sound a little robotic, Claude has been designed with special research that informs its character, meaning that Claude just gets it when it comes to empathy and emotional intelligence. That's why Claude has become the if you know, you know choice for dating advice, career coaching, gathering your thoughts for those important life decisions, and more. Give Claude a try for free at Claude.com that's C-L-A-U--E.com and let us know how you feel the difference the wait is almost over.

[Robert Evans]

Get ready for the NFL season like never before with the highly anticipated 2025 NFL Schedule release every rivalry, every rematch, every rookie debut, every game revealed, the dates will be set, primetime matchups will be known, and the road to the super bowl starts here. The full NFL schedule release this Wednesday. Get all of the [e-mail] ScheduleRelease Honestly, honestly, honestly, no one wants to think.

[Unknown]

About HIV, but there are things that.

[Robert Evans]

Everyone can do to help prevent it.

[Unknown]

Things like prep. Prep stands for Pre Exposure Prophylaxis and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances. Chances of getting it prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and.

[Robert Evans]

Other healthy sex practices.

[Unknown]

Ask a healthcare provider about all your.

[Robert Evans]

Prevention Options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more. Sponsored by Gilead Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient. Still using yesterday's tech upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 carbon ultralight. Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around. Whoa, this thing moves. Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. You're listening to an I Heart podcast.