← Behind the Bastards
Loading summary
Transcript182 lines
- [00:02]
Robert Evans
Call Zone Media.
- [00:05]
Jack O'Brien
Oh, welcome back to behind the Bastards, a podcast about bad people. Who are the people you'll be hearing about most in your daily life if you spend any amount of time on social media or listening to the news. But we're going to be talking about a fun one today. Not, not as depressing as the bad people who make up the rest of your day to day life. I don't know, they make up my day to day life and that's pretty depressing. But not today because we've got Molly Lambert as a guest. Molly, welcome on the show. Are you ready to have your day be worse?
- [00:38]
Molly Lambert
Oh yeah.
- [00:39]
Jack O'Brien
Oh great. A transition to the tall boys of Xevia.
- [00:43]
Robert Evans
You have for some reason. That's very funny to me.
- [00:48]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, yeah, 12 ounces just wasn't enough. Molly, what do you gotta plug today at the start of the episode before I introduce our bastard?
- [00:56]
Molly Lambert
I've got a book that came out called Double Acts and Pop.
- [01:00]
Jack O'Brien
Holy shit.
- [01:01]
Robert Evans
Congratulations.
- [01:01]
Jack O'Brien
Yes, thank you.
- [01:03]
Molly Lambert
It's out from commercial type. It's about musical duo acts and everybody check it out. And then later this year I have a podcast coming out called Jenna World which is about the history of the porn industry through kind of the Jenna Jameson story.
- [01:18]
Robert Evans
Oh, awesome.
- [01:20]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, that sounds fascinating. Well, today we're not talking about Jenna Jameson. We're not talking about anyone who has ever done anything good at all. We are talking about Kevin Smith. Not that Kevin Smith, not the one who directed Dogma. Although it is, I don't know, we'll title this the other Kevin Smith or some shit. We're talking. This guy is a Jamaican pastor who led a charismatic Christian End time sect in Jamaica and lost his mind as a result of COVID lockdowns and wound up trying to have slit dozens of people's throats in moss during a church service.
- [01:55]
Robert Evans
Sensational.
- [01:55]
Jack O'Brien
This is a wild story. And the fact that he has just named Kevin Smith the whole time is going to be frustrating. I'm gonna. I'll cop to that right now. If you want to imagine Silent Bob committing the heinous atrocities we're about to discuss, that's your business. Although you should probably also talk to a therapist if you feel compelled to do that. Molly, you ever heard of this guy? I'm gonna guess not. I had not until I started doing this digging.
- [02:23]
Molly Lambert
No, I've never heard of him.
- [02:24]
Jack O'Brien
Uh huh. Well, welcome to a real fascinating piece of shit who is also kind of a Canadian bastard too. So we've got that going for us. Like Canadian, Jamaican, real monster. Solidarity here in this week's episodes. And we'll have all that and more when we come back from the cold open.
- [02:42]
Robert Evans
Boom. Badoom.
- [02:45]
Jack O'Brien
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.
- [02:51]
Ad
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, Whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through, it's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE83. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.
- [03:52]
Promo
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.
- [03:59]
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
- [04:04]
I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.
- [04:09]
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [04:12]
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [04:24]
Jack O'Brien
We're back. Molly, you ready to get into it?
- [04:27]
Molly Lambert
Let's do it.
- [04:29]
Jack O'Brien
Okay, so our bastard for this week's full name was Kevin Antonio Smith. O N T O N I E, L. Right. That's his name. We could call him Kevin Osmith to differentiate him from, again, Silent Bob, but I don't know how necessary that is. He was born in 1982, probably. Although again, this guy is like a cult leader. You never know with these fuckers. That's the first sign someone's a cult leader is like the birth date's a real open question.
- [05:01]
Robert Evans
So funny.
- [05:02]
Jack O'Brien
Probably. Though there's some sources that suggest he might be a little younger than this. Born more in the late 80s. And I've just got no idea what day or month he came into the world, I guess it doesn't matter all that much. He was definitely born in a town called Glyngoff. G L N G O F F E in the parish of St. Catherine. And this is in Jamaica. It's one of the most prosperous parts of the island. It's second only to Kingston as an industrial center, and it's got good access to water and a really good growing climate. So he comes up in, like, a fairly. You know, Jamaica is an island with a lot of poverty, but he comes up in a fairly comfortable part of the island compared to some other parts. We have very little about his early life aside from the fact that he would later claim to have been physically abused by his father, who died when he was very young. So his mom's gonna raise him on her own for much of his adolescence, which, again, not a wildly uncommon cult leader backstory. And this statistically, you know, just the fact that she's a single mom might suggest that he came up in a degree of poverty, but there's not a lot of evidence either way. Right. Like, in fact, it kind of seems the evidence suggests more that she managed to, like, keep them fairly comfortable. I'm not sure what she did, but they don't seem to have been, like, on the edge of poverty or whatever. Right. He claims to have been baptized at age 9, and it's unclear which denomination he was from, but some sort of Protestant sect. Right. Just based on kind of the demographics of Jamaica and based on his later religious life, it was some kind of evangelical Protestant sect that he's baptized into. We can be pretty, pretty sure of that. Years later, as part of a court case that we will talk about more in the future. Kevin would claim to have again, been sexually abused as a child by a male relative, both physically abused by his dad and sexually abused by a male relative. We don't know how old he would have been when this happened, but he's probably pre adolescent, somewhere around, like, 10 to 12. We know that he goes on to attend Jamaica College, which, confusingly, is not a college. This is a high school. I've read enough of the history to tell you. I can't give you a perfect idea of why they called it Jamaica College, other than that word hasn't always meant the same thing. Right. I think the school is initially established by, like, some. I believe it's a Catholic member of the clergy who, like, leaves a bunch of money behind, but I forget exactly. But it's one of the best secondary schools in all of Jamaica. Right. So this is, and it's not just, I say it's primarily a secondary school. I think you can start going there when you're about 10 years old, right? So it doesn't exactly map onto what we call a secondary school, but this is a really good school and it's a public school, right? It's free to attend and it's kind of got like a degree of international fame. So being able to get into Jamaica College suggests that you're like a kid who's done really well in school or has connections or both. Now, my sources somewhat disagree here, but it seems like he kind of, he doesn't finish his education at Jamaica College. He goes there. He probably starts when he's around 10 and he probably leaves when he's around 14. The Toronto Caribbean newspaper claims that this is when his mother moves the family to Canada in 1996, but there's disagreement on when the family moves to Canada. The Walrus, which is an award winning Canadian magazine, says they moved when he was 12, which would have been probably around 94. Although again, we don't know his birth date really. So it's unclear how much time he spent at Jamaica College. But a report on his social media history by the Jamaica Gleaner shows a photo of him wearing the school uniform. So we know that he went there at some point. Right? So sometime between two and four years at this fairly prestigious academy. And then the family emigrates to Canada. And the fact that they were able to do so legally again suggests kind of a degree of financial comfort because that's just not like a super cheap or easy thing. Right. And it probably also suggests that like, there's a lot of family support. That's usually the case when people are able to make this move from Jamaica to Canada that like members of their family kind of pool to help make this possible. Right. Whatever the case, he graduates high school in Canada and it's here that he starts preaching for the first time. Right? And this is, this is where we start getting like the foreboding music. You know, this, this kid is like one of these teenage preachers. Like he gets into being an evangelical pastor at a very early age, which is almost never a good thing, Right. Whenever someone's described as a gifted child preacher, which I found references to in the Toronto Caribbean newspaper. It's like a bad thing, right? Like that almost. I've never heard of that ending.
- [09:29]
Molly Lambert
Well, hey, what if he's just got the touch? Come on.
- [09:32]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, he's got the touch. He's got the Power. If you watch, I always recommend the documentary Marjo when we talk about this, which is about a kid who was, like, used by his parents as a preacher from age five or six on. It's a really fucked up documentary, won an Oscar. But there's a lot of this in the kind of apostolic community and the Pentecostal community that. This attitude that, well, because you're sort of touched by God to become a preacher, the younger you can bring someone in and get them preaching, number one, it helps establish their career. You can be like, I've been doing this since I was 16 or 17 or even younger. Right. But it also. It's kind of like a. It's a. It's a marketing tool, right, that you've got. We've got a child preacher. You know, God's speaking to this little young man and, you know, you need to hear what he's got to say. That's kind of a big deal in the community. We're not entirely certain where he comes up within sort of the evangelical community in Toronto. I've heard references to the Apostolic Community in the Toronto Caribbean, although the Walrus claims he joins the Exodus Deliverance Temple in Mississauga at age 17. And these are slightly in conflict, although he could have done both because that's just sort of the way this community works. If that's the case. The. The Exodus Deliverance Temple is founded in 1999, which meant he would have joined the year it was founded. And I kind of doubt that this is the case just because I looked at their website and they say that when the church was founded, it was founded with only a few family members in a quaint and old white village hall. And he's not a member of the family that founded this church. So I think it's more likely that he comes out of the apostolic community in Toronto. But the Walrus may have done, you know, have access to information. I don't. I don't know if I'm getting into the weeds too much on this sort of thing, but if you get started in the Apostolic Faith Church in Toronto, that is kind of a separate thing. And the Apostolic Faith movement is a strict fundamentalist Pentecostal sect that originates actually in Los Angeles. Right. It gets its start kind of in a Hollywood at the end of the. Like right at the start of the 1900s, into the 1800s, start of the 1900s. And this is. There's like a wave of different evangelical Christian revivals that sweep and they often do start in the west coast for all of Its sort of reputation as like a progressive haven. This is a thing that occurs at the start of the 1900s. It occurs like in the mid century. It occurs after the hippie movement, right? Like it's this constant place where you get these sort of ecstatic evangelical movements that like, rise up and they often will kind of sweep north and then east from Los Angeles.
- [12:18]
Molly Lambert
Okay, but Robert, have you ever considered getting into it?
- [12:21]
Jack O'Brien
I mean, I kind of was. As a kid, right? A little bit, I guess. Like, I was sort of. I came out of the sect of the whatchamacallit, the fake Catholics.
- [12:34]
Molly Lambert
Sect of the whatchamacallit?
- [12:35]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah. What the fuck are we. What do we call this? Everyone's shouting. Who knows what I mean by fake Catholics. They're now part of the African Anglican Church. But we started out as this like, kind of sect that was sort of like Catholicism light. And then my church left because they made a gay guy in California a minister. And that was. Or a bishop. And that was not cool with a lot of people.
- [12:58]
Molly Lambert
I thought you were just like, they made a gay guy and so they had to stop.
- [13:01]
Jack O'Brien
No, no, no, no. They let a gay guy be a bishop. And that was a real problem for the guy who ran my church. So we had like news cameras and shit at our church in Plano. It was a whole deal. But this is a little bit of like a different thing. It's called the Azusa Street Revival. That gives a start to the Apostolic Faith movement that is going to wind up probably being the church that Kevin Smith, the other one, gets involved in. It was started by a la Florence Crawford. And it's part of this wave of evangelical revivals that sweeps LA from 1906 to 1915. And it's characterized like all Pentecostal revivals by these acts of like, apparent mass mania. So you'll get these groups of people who attend a preaching session and they'll start babbling in tongues together and like having what looked like seizures where they're like twitching around on the ground and shouting in fake languages. And this kind of mania that spreads contagiously is a big part of the movement, right? And so a mission comes out of this on Azusa street, which is why it's called the Azusa Street Revival. And they start a newspaper called the Apostolic Faith that begins circulating. And this lady, Crawford. Florence Crawford is a part of it. And the guy who kind of founded the movement was named William Seymour. And he makes Crawford like the director of state level efforts to bring more churches into the fold. And they Wind up having a power struggle. Right. Because Crawford is kind of looking to steer the ministry in her own direction. And this leads to, like, a civil war within the. Within the movement. And she winds up splitting and forming the Apostolic Faith Church in none other than Portland, Oregon. Classic story. If you get kicked out of la, move up to Portland, you know, many such cases, including several people on this podcast.
- [14:46]
Robert Evans
I don't know what you're talking about.
- [14:49]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, we get run out of town, you come up here to start your cult, of course.
- [14:54]
Robert Evans
Whomst Among Us.
- [14:56]
Jack O'Brien
Whomst Among Us.
- [14:57]
Molly Lambert
Yeah. When your cult's too crazy for la.
- [15:00]
Jack O'Brien
Right? Right. Time to go to Portland time.
- [15:02]
Molly Lambert
To Portland.
- [15:03]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah. Yeah, It's. It's. It's beautiful in its own way. So shit spreads from there. Once you're in Portland, you're not all that far from Canada. And pretty soon the AFC is affiliated with, like. I mean, there's like 2400 affiliated churches around the world today, but they move up to Canada pretty quickly. And they wind up setting up shop in Toronto in, like, 1943, which is when a Canadian named Stanley Hancock founds an Apostolic Faith newsletter in the city. Here's how. The organization he established, which Kevin probably winds up joining, describes its founding. After reading an Apostolic Faith paper, Stanley Hancock received his baptism and was banned from church. In 1943, he and others started the first Apostolic Faith church in Canada. Now there are 11. And the apostolic Faith Church, it falls under this wider umbrella of Charismatic Christianity. Right. Which is a chunk of Protestantism who believes in brief. Number one, the Holy Spirit can and does directly enter people, change them, and thus change the world. And number two, through this method, by sending the Holy Spirit into people, God bestows gifts upon them, like prophecy and healing. He can, like, spontaneously heal your injuries by sending the Holy Spirit into you. And number three, and this is the most important part of charismatic Christianity, it's a lot of fun to writhe around on the ground and pretend to speak in a fake language. People love it.
- [16:25]
Molly Lambert
Yeah, right.
- [16:29]
Jack O'Brien
You could just take acid, you know, at a psy trance festival or whatever to get the same experience. But they didn't have psi trance back then. We just didn't have the technology. Nor did they have acid, really. I don't know if my psy trance jokes are gonna land with anyone less than 37 years old. You kids are all probably listening to 100 gecks while you take your drugs now.
- [16:48]
Molly Lambert
No, man. Cytrans is back.
- [16:50]
Jack O'Brien
Oh, is it back? Did it come back? Thank God. Ibiza was really suffering.
- [16:55]
Molly Lambert
They got Urgot. It'll be fine.
- [16:57]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, yeah. Excellent. So Pentecostals are, again, part of this. And when I talk about the Pentecostal church, like, these guys are part of the charismatic movement. But there's divisions within charismatic Christianity based on, like, do you believe speaking in tongues is a necessary precursor to being baptized? Do you have to prove the Holy Spirit has entered you right, or not? So it's kind of like a whiskey bourbon sort of deal. Pentecostals are all part of the charismatic movement, but the charismatic movement isn't just Pentecostals right.
- [17:27]
Ad
Now.
- [17:28]
Jack O'Brien
One thing all these churches have in common is that they're always sort of scouting for young men with what the rest of us might call strong cult leader vibes. You know, we didn't have TikTok or, like, streaming back then, so someone with those vibes couldn't just start a media career like they had. They pretty much, like, getting involved in a church or like, Dianetics was basically their best option, you know, in the mid century. And Kevin, though, comes up in this period right before the Internet's gonna really take off. And he gets scouted at around age 17 by this community on the brief autobiography for one of his now scrubbed social media accounts. He claims at the age of 17, he was sent to 33 countries within two years as a prophet to the nations. And this is probably true that, like, once they figure out this kid's got the gift of gab and you can kind of set him up in front of any church you want, and he'll keep them entertained and giving money, donating money for a couple of. You fly him all around, right? You put him up. He's like, crashing in churches and whatnot around the world. But you fly him around. And he's both building his own kind of platform, but he's also raising money for the wider organization and for each of these individual churches. And this is a whole industry, right? This is like the charismatic pastor industrial complex, pretty much. Right. Which is what, like, Marjo documents and why I recommend watching that documentary. So he's good at preaching to crowds and gathering followers. And it would have been a cinch for him to raise money from mission trips and even convince the leaders of his church to pay for him to go and preach the gospel. He claims that he was ordained at age 18 by an organization called the National Evangelists for Canada. And I can't find any evidence that this group exists. People lie about this all the time. But also the reporting for this comes from a Jamaican news site. And it's based on claims made by Kevin and based on just the differences in dialect spoken. It's possible that this is a real organization. They just gave kind of a name based on sort of the differences in dialects that made sense to them, but that doesn't directly correspond with what the organization is called in Canada. Right. Because there's some organizations with similar names. I'm not sure. I don't doubt that he was ordained in some Pentecostal organization or another. It's not like being a priest in the Catholic Church where you have to go through school. Somebody just decides to ordain you when you're ordained and you get maybe a piece of paper or whatever. It's very easy. It's like my experience with becoming a judge.
- [19:57]
Robert Evans
There you go.
- [19:58]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, there you go. His denomination again. There's no seminary degree required, no qualifications. The Walrus notes that Kevin himself claims. And I'm talking about a news site when I say that, claims that Kevin says that ministers are qualified as ministers when they feel the call of God on their life. And that's pretty consistent in this community. For his part, Kevin would claim that he was around 18 or 19 when his grandfather first saw some of the early preaching he'd done, and during a phone call, informed Kevin that he was a prophet. And I'm gonna play you a video of His Excellency, Dr. Kevin O. Smith, discussing this conversation with his grandfather. Because it's about time you get an idea of how this guy sounds and talks.
- [20:41]
Kevin Smith
I'm talking 18, 19, talking to Grandpa. And he said, but you are a prophet. I said, grandpa, how do you know I'm a prophet? Who told you? Ah, grandson, I said, grandpa may not come in off the phone until you explain to me how you know I'm a prophet. He said, you're preaching your tapes. I have them. I listen to them. I know what a prophet is. And he said, you are an anointed man of God. My grandfather, who I thought don't know God, he said, though I have that sin, but God opens my understanding to know who come out of my generation. Your mother is to be an evangelist, and you are born to be a prophet, and you shall go through it. He said, no level of witchcraft shall ever stop.
- [21:32]
Robert Evans
What a fun guy.
- [21:33]
Molly Lambert
All right, just making some points.
- [21:34]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, Making some points. No level of witchcraft will stop you. This is something I tell our podcasters very regularly.
- [21:41]
Molly Lambert
He looks a little more like the other Kevin Smith than I expected.
- [21:46]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah. Finally, a use for AI cut him into all the Jay and Silent Bob movies.
- [21:51]
Molly Lambert
Yeah, he looks a little like Silent Bob. Like I'm surprised.
- [21:55]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, not very silent though. Distinctly loud. Bob. Speaking of things that are distinctly loud.
- [22:05]
Robert Evans
But like sometimes that's super true because the volume of some of the auto ads are quite crazy loud for no reason and we have no control over it.
- [22:13]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, well, anyway, here's some ads. I'm sure you know that identity theft is a growing problem and it's not just your grandma who's at risk. It can happen to anyone, even the rich and famous. Victims of identity theft include famous actors, politicians, talk show hosts, and one very famous golfer. None of us are safe. Fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a lifelock USB based restoration specialist will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed or your money back. Plus, all LifeLock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package, meaning LifeLock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan if you lose money due to identity theft. You can't control how diligent others are with your personal information, but with Lifelock you can help protect it. Act now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code BTB or go to lifelock.com BTB for 40% off. Terms apply.
- [23:13]
Ad
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health Awareness Month and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone let's face it, in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE83 to match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.
- [24:15]
Promo
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in bone Valley Season 1, I just knew him as a kid. Long silent voices from his past came.
- [24:27]
Forward and he was just staring at me.
- [24:30]
And they had secrets of their own to share.
- [24:34]
Gilbert King I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.
- [24:40]
I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.
- [24:44]
Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
- [24:48]
I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.
- [24:53]
If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.
- [24:58]
I never expected to find myself in the this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.
- [25:05]
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [25:08]
Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy.
- [25:12]
Jeremy, I want to tell you something.
- [25:14]
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [25:32]
Jack O'Brien
And we're back.
- [25:34]
Robert Evans
So back again.
- [25:37]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, we're back again. Let's keep talking about the other Kevin Smith. Legally, I have to really emphasize it's the other one. Now that write up in the Toronto Caribbean newspaper continues. He boasts of the fact that he was the youngest Jamaican born bishop in Jamaica's church history. Kevin completed a Bachelor of Theology degree, a doctorate degree from Vision International University in Ramona, California, and a Doctor of Ministry from Mount Olive Bible Institute and Seminary in Toronto, Canada. He was a licensed counselor and certified psychotherapist. And that all sounds very impressive. I can verify some of this, but the stuff I can verify doesn't matter. I have no idea if he was the youngest Jamaican born bishop in Jamaica's church history because again, this is not like the Catholic Church where like a bishop is a real position. You can just call yourself a bishop or you can convince a friend to call you a bishop and then you're a bishop. Right? Like it's not difficult.
- [26:36]
Robert Evans
That is so true. Bishop Molly.
- [26:38]
Molly Lambert
Yeah, come on. Bishop Sophie.
- [26:41]
Jack O'Brien
Yes, Bishop Molly. Bishop Sophie, look, the Pope is a Robert. I think that means I get splash over Pope power. I'm making some fucking secret cardinals.
- [26:50]
Robert Evans
Just a sprinkle of poping.
- [26:54]
Jack O'Brien
I watched fucking conclave. I know that I have the power to make secret cardinals that can just pop out at any time. You might be a cardinal listening right now. You have no way of knowing until you like walk into a Catholic church and demand their secret Hidden gold, which I assume every Catholic church has. Not an expert on the religion that I'm pope of.
- [27:14]
Molly Lambert
I'm gonna find out where the gold is.
- [27:16]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, go find out. Get in there. Now, these institutes that he claims to have fancy degrees from are, like, real, but also not right. Because this is, like, whenever you hear a cult leader be like, I'm a doctorate in this. I'm a therapist in this. It's always some kind of fake. And there's a whole industry in creating fake churches for, like, evangelical ministers to claim that they've got fancy and impressive degrees. Reporters from Jamaica observer called Vision University to see if Kevin had received a bachelor and a doctorate there. And, quote, we were told that such information could only be provided in response to a written request, and only students are allowed to make that request. Now, these guys had reached out.
- [27:57]
Molly Lambert
Are you enrolled?
- [27:59]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, they can't even verify that, or they won't. But the news reaches out to these guys after he cuts a bunch of people's throats in a church service. Right. So Vision International doesn't want to claim him. So I decided to just, like, look into the school to see, like, is this even a real school? Like, is there a chance anyone has ever earned a real degree from Vision International University? And at the risk of getting sued, I think the answer is no. If you go to their website, they brag that you can, quote, earn an affordable Christian ministry or business degree on your time. And their motto is, taking the whole world to the whole world. Now, I'll have Sophie scroll through the website while we discuss this fine institution in more detail so you could get a look at. Yeah, save time and money on your college degree. That always is the first sign of a real college. Yeah, they've got, like, a lot of good stock photos. There's, like, a young black lady punching the sky defiantly with her diploma. And the claim that Vision International holds prestigious international accreditation from asic. Right. Now you're wondering what that is, right? Prestigious International accredited. That must mean it's a real school, right? It says it's prestigious, so that's gotta be legitimately accredited, right? Well, I looked into it. It. Because I thought that was odd. People who are accredited from legitimate organizations never have to tell you that the accrediting organization is legitimate. That's the first sign that someone's not part of a legitimate accrediting organization.
- [29:27]
Molly Lambert
Harvard as a graduate of Podcast University, Right?
- [29:31]
Jack O'Brien
Pcu.
- [29:31]
Molly Lambert
I don't know what you're talking about.
- [29:33]
Jack O'Brien
Ah, great movie. Yeah.
- [29:34]
Molly Lambert
Pcu.
- [29:35]
Jack O'Brien
I really.
- [29:36]
Robert Evans
I really enjoy this stock photo of this guy.
- [29:39]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, the guy holding two degrees, earned two respected degrees in just two years.
- [29:44]
Robert Evans
And it looks like he's like floating on a cliff.
- [29:47]
Jack O'Brien
If you go to, like, Harvard's website, Harvard, number one, will not give you two degrees in two years, but doesn't have to tell you the degree's respected. Cause it's a real school. And even like you go to utd, right, where I briefly went before dropping out, they never had to brag on their website that they were accredited from a real organization because you just know it's a real school. So I googled Vision International University fake. And the second search result was the Wikipedia page for list of Unaccredited Institutions of Higher Learning, which seemed odd because they ensured us that they were accredited by someone real. Now, the first result when I looked into that was someone on the forum for degreeinfo.com back in 2002 asking is this a good school or a fraud? And someone pointed out that, like, well, they offer a master's in Creation Science, which means they fall under a religious exemption in California, which is not accreditation. Right? It means California can't stop them from giving out religious degrees, but they're not approved by the state as like a real college. You just can't stop someone from giving degrees with titles like Master of Theology or Doctor of Ministry, but they're not allowed to give out secular degrees like an ms, a Master of Science. And they claim to. Right. And one reason I'm interested in this is because there's an attempt within sort of this chunk of the evangelical movement. One reason this is interesting is that there's an attempt within this chunk of the evangelical movement to create people who can get jobs as science teachers. Right? Because they have Ms. Degrees and then teach in Christian secondary schools about stuff like, like creationism. Right? So that's what Vision International is doing, but they're not accredited to give out an Ms. In the state of California. So then I looked into that ASIC accreditation, right? Which is why they're how they claim to be a legitimate university. Asic. ASIC stands for the Accreditation Service for International Colleges. And this is a real organization. It's a private educational agency in the United Kingdom that is literally based out of, of a semi detached duplex residential property and stocked it on tees, which doubles as the residential address for its creators. So great, very legitimate organization run out of the home of the people who run it. Just like this podcast and its whole ASICS whole business is accrediting private UK colleges for visa purposes, and they are recognized by the UK government in this capacity. But they've been repeatedly criticized for being what's called a runaround accreditor. And another poster from a different thread and Degree Info explains the key difference is that accreditation in the UK appears vastly different from accreditation in the us. If your UK university has a Royal Charter, then that's all it really needs to operate. Accreditation is wholly voluntary and doesn't confer degree granting authority because that's not how degree granting authority is conferred in the uk. The issue with ASIC seems to be that some of the schools accredited by them lack institutional accreditation or authority to award degrees in their respective countries. So Vision International is accredited through asic, but ASIC is not approved in the UK to accredit a school, it means a different thing than it does in the us. They have no ability to grant degrees in the US and they also don't really have the ability to grant degrees that are recognized by the uk. It just means that if you go here, you can get an educational visa in the uk. They're kind of playing with the fact that the same word means different things in two countries. Does that make sense?
- [33:10]
Molly Lambert
Sense, sure.
- [33:12]
Jack O'Brien
I fell down this wormhole for way too long trying to figure out how this fake college for Christian scam artists works. And. And so now you're all going to learn about it.
- [33:21]
Molly Lambert
Yeah, I'm gonna enroll.
- [33:23]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah. Get your degree for sure. Yes, of course. Get your Master of Science.
- [33:27]
Molly Lambert
Gonna get two degrees.
- [33:29]
Jack O'Brien
This is double fisting them.
- [33:30]
Robert Evans
This is very classic you. You're like, I suffered. You must suffer. That's you. That's very classic you.
- [33:37]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah. Just doing with degrees what punk kids in the early 2000s did with tall boys.
- [33:43]
Molly Lambert
What you're doing with Zevias now?
- [33:45]
Jack O'Brien
What I'm doing with Azevia right now, yeah. So the poster then goes on to discuss Warnborough College in Ireland, which is not a real college. It's not a recognized institute of higher learning in Ireland, but pretends to be because it has an ASIC accreditation. The U.S. department of Education does not recognize ASIC accreditation, although though they might in the future, given where we're headed.
- [34:06]
Robert Evans
Every time you say asic, I think of shoes.
- [34:09]
Jack O'Brien
Is that a shoe brand, Sophie?
- [34:10]
Robert Evans
It certainly is.
- [34:11]
Molly Lambert
Yeah.
- [34:12]
Jack O'Brien
That's a more legitimate company than the ASIC in the uk.
- [34:15]
Robert Evans
They're like good shoes, like good quality, like for your feet and whatnot.
- [34:19]
Jack O'Brien
Well, this is not a good quality accreditation organization. In 2009, extensive reporting showed that there's some very shady details about how ASIC got recognized in the uk. A journalist named Andrew Norfolk wrote an article on the matter with the title man given job of closing Boat Bogus Colleges was sacked by university. And the man who's the founder of ASIC is Maurice Dimock, who along with his wife, lives in the detached duplex that doubles as ASIC's headquarters. He had been director of international operations for a real school, Northumbria University, until 2003, when he was fired for reasons neither he or the school will ever discuss, which I'm sure means good things always not shady. When your school won't even tell anyone why they fired you, I'm sure no crimes were committed. Wow. Somehow the UK Home office ignored numerous concerns and complaints about this guy and gave his company the job of determining which private colleges were real for visa purposes. And ASIC accredited 180 schools in its first two years, the Times reports. Among them is a Manchester college that the Times exposed last month as the front for an immigration scam which helped a thousand fake students enter or stay in Britain. Another in London issued more than 2,500 bogus postgraduate diplomas in two months last year, earning its owners, who have fled the country, an estimated £5 million. So, great organization, very real school. That's what we can say is that Kevin Smith gets his doctorate from an entirely real university. And again, it's important to discuss this, even though we're getting a little bit off topic from the other Kevin Smith, because every one of these abusive Christian cult leaders you come across today has some kind of PhD or other fancy sounding degree from one of these fake schools. There's a whole ton of. One of the claims I found is that Vision International, around 2002 was claiming to have 4,000 campuses in more than 100 countries. And to the best of my knowledge, vision has 30 full and part time employees, which it's hard to keep. Four thousand campuses operative on 30 employees. And it kind of seems like they're just counting everyone who registered online as a campus. Like you're a campus for Vision International University. If you log on with your laptop, whatever coffee shop you're in as a campus. I need to start a fake college like Sophie. We gotta get in on this fucking racket.
- [36:37]
Robert Evans
We're not doing that. We're not.
- [36:39]
Jack O'Brien
There's a lot of money.
- [36:40]
Robert Evans
We're not going full. Tate.
- [36:42]
Jack O'Brien
I'm sorry, Molly. Do you like the sound of Professor Lambert? You could be giving out doctorates in like 45 minutes, you know.
- [36:48]
Robert Evans
Sorry, that's Bishop. Dr. Lambert.
- [36:51]
Molly Lambert
Come on. I'm a Bishop.
- [36:53]
Jack O'Brien
Dr. Bishop Lambert. Yeah. You could give out. What kind of degree would you want to hand out to people? What would you feel confident giving? Like in terms of doctors?
- [37:03]
Molly Lambert
I mean, whatever they'll give me money for. Right. That's how we're gonna do this scam.
- [37:07]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:08]
Molly Lambert
I mean, college scam.
- [37:10]
Jack O'Brien
College. I'd like to make surgeons like. That feels. That feels satisfying to know I'd created a lot of surgeons who are going out there cutting into people. You know, as long as I get to a non extradition country very quickly after handing out 4,000 or so diplomas.
- [37:24]
Robert Evans
Jesus Christ.
- [37:26]
Jack O'Brien
So I should also note that initially Vision University was an offshoot of a Pentecostal school in Tasmania founded by an Australian named Ken Chant. And I just mentioned that because I found a photo of him that I have to show you guys.
- [37:38]
Robert Evans
It's really kind of funny.
- [37:41]
Jack O'Brien
Hey, Ken, look at that mustache. That's beautiful.
- [37:45]
Molly Lambert
All right. He looks cool.
- [37:47]
Jack O'Brien
He does look cool. That's a sweet ass mustache.
- [37:49]
Robert Evans
Ken Chant is a great name too.
- [37:52]
Jack O'Brien
Ken Chant, too. Solid name. I'm happy with him.
- [37:55]
Molly Lambert
I mean, Chant. It's right in the name.
- [37:57]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, right? Yeah. It's a perfect name for an evangelical pastor.
- [38:00]
Molly Lambert
Yeah.
- [38:01]
Jack O'Brien
Especially with a soup strainer like that. The acoustics had to be great. Great. You know, it would act like having like baffling panels on your ceiling.
- [38:08]
Molly Lambert
I trust him.
- [38:10]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, he seems legitimate. So I said we'd get back to Kevin Smith, the bad one, and I meant it. But I also kept running across funny stuff about this school that I didn't know where to stop. According to the 1994 edition of Name it and Frame it by Stephen Levok, which is a book about fake colleges, Vision Quote also offers a special additional 10% tuition reduction for students who enroll within the next 30 days. Days, which is a real sign that someone's got an actual college going. Real colleges give you bonuses like that. Right. Sign up in 30 days and get 10% off. Okay, now back to Kevin for realsies. In addition to his definitely fake degree, he claimed to attend Tyndale University, which is a real and respected private evangelical Christian university. He also claims to have a Doctorate of Ministry from Mount Olive Bible Institute in Toronto, which seems to be about as well as real as vision, but has a very similar name to an actual college that's in the United States, which I think is the point. And laying out Kevin's educational history, the Walrus, who is again a Canadian news site, noted, while he has referred to himself as a registered clinical counselor and Sought after holistic psychotherapist. He has never been registered with the College of Registered Psychotherapists in Ontario. So he's a Christian psychotherapist, which is different from being a psychotherapist in the way that any medical establishment recognizes. Now, while he's getting all these fake degrees and maybe one real degree in addition to several other questionable certifications, Smith grew up and seems to have made his living operating a ministry in Toronto and traveling around the world to give speeches at different churches. Sometime around the turn of the millennium, he founds his own ministry which he calls Kos Deliverance International. And the initials KOS is just the initials of his name. On August 22, 2006, he returns from one of his overseas preaching trips to the uk. The Walrus writes, quote, Smith was jet lagged and lonely, craving to spend time with someone besides his brother. I wanted, you know, emotional company. Smith would later recall, as per court documents. So he perused online ads for escorts and reached out to a man for his services. Matt, whose real name is under a court ordered publication ban, arrived at smith's home around 10:31 evening. I would need him to be as inconspicuous as possible because I live straight and I'm a Christian, Smith would recall. There was a conflict happening inside of me, in essence to what I was going to do or not to do. Now what he did, according to Matt's allegations, is sexually assault Matt, who goes to the police. The next day, Smith is arrested and charged. He would later claim that Canadian police tried to use his Jamaican ancestry and the local stigma against homosexuality in Jamaica against him. And he claims he told them gays are just people who need redirection, which does do a great job of making me more sympathetic to his case. But he's been accused basically of calling this guy in and then sexually assaulting him. Right now the case, these allegations against him wind through the Canadian court system for the next several months and the next year, in early 2007, he gets married. And possibly as a way to kind of distract from the fact that this is really bad PR to his ministry. He's either 18 or 25 when he gets married. I found different things on different news sites. It kind of depends on whether or not he was actually born in 1982 or not. Whatever the case, this marriage does not seem to have really been like, like, it certainly doesn't last. There's debate as to whether or not it was legitimate. They very quickly split and the Walrus writes Smith's ex wife described him as verbally abusive and someone who lied about his private life. He is not living an honest life, she would later recall. According to court records and the Toronto Caribbean's reporting ads, there have been allegations that his wife caught him having sexual relations with men. She reported it to senior ministers in the church organizations, but they denied it and there were no reprimand or conflict consequences. So, you know, not a story we've ever heard before anywhere else. Wow. Powerful up and coming guy gets caught violating the tenets of his religion for personal reasons and also violating a sex worker and it all gets smoothed over because hey, you know, he's, he brings in money. Probably shouldn't segue to ads with that, but they also bring in money.
- [42:21]
Robert Evans
Wow.
- [42:21]
Jack O'Brien
Here's ads.
- [42:22]
Robert Evans
Wow.
- [42:26]
Ad
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is Mental health Awareness Month and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it, in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back. Whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace. When you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's Spa CE80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.
- [43:27]
Promo
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.
- [43:34]
Jack O'Brien
I just knew him as a kid.
- [43:36]
Promo
Long silent voices from his past came.
- [43:39]
Forward and he was just staring at me.
- [43:42]
And they had secrets of their own to share.
- [43:46]
Gilbert King I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.
- [43:52]
I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.
- [43:56]
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
- [44:00]
I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.
- [44:05]
If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.
- [44:10]
I never expected, expected to find myself in this place. Now. I need to tell you how I got here.
- [44:17]
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [44:20]
Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy.
- [44:24]
Jeremy, I want to tell you something.
- [44:26]
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [44:45]
Jack O'Brien
We're back. So I know the timeline is kind of screwy here. When he gets married, how old he is. You know, this is a guy who gives multiple versions of different stories and different news reports. I see give different things. I don't actually know what's objectively the truth. I haven't seen a birth certificate here. But. But, you know, basically one of two things happens. Either he marries this lady to try to distract from the scandal, or they had been. They get married and stay that way for years. But she had seen signs that he was kind of living a lie and eventually tries to report them. In either case, the two of them split up and he goes on trial later in 2007 for sexual assault. And this trial we can confirm absolutely happened. Right? There's plenty of court records in Canada over it. During the trial, Smith identifies himself as an international minister of religion who had preached in 300 different cities. He says, we do crusades all around the world in churches and open fields and stadiums and things to that magnitude to preach the gospel. Smith's lawyer denied that anything non consensual had happened. And under oath, he claimed that Matt had tried to extort him for money during a private religious counseling center session. Quote, the prosecutor, in her closing argument shredded Smith's testimony. His life and his platform is a facade, she said. Mr. Smith's reputation and his public Persona are his primary concern and he will go to any extent to preserve that facade. In the end, the judge found Smith guilty of sexual assault, sentencing him to six months in jail, followed by two months of probation. Mr. Smith, it seems to me the judge said to quote a parable, might be viewed as a wolf in sheep's clothing.
- [46:20]
Robert Evans
Wow.
- [46:20]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah. And she's got it right here. She has definitely like locked this guy's number down. Unfortunately, she's going to be the last person to clock him for a while. And he is going to basically, as soon as he splits up with his wife, flee the country. Right? So he leaves Canada for Jamaica. He breaches the terms of his probation, he's supposed to attend counseling, and he's like, no, I'm just gonna go back to Jamaica and start a church. There's. And he's gonna remain in Jamaica for the next six years, where he starts a local church and he burrows into the Pentecostal community and he starts accruing clout, followers, and eventually wealth. So that's where we are at the end of part one. And this is going to lead us to what I would describe as a shockingly bloody conclusion to come in part two. Where this one ends is pretty fucking intense. But, Molly, that's what we got for the start of this episode. How you feeling as we sort of close out part one one?
- [47:17]
Molly Lambert
I truly don't know where this is going.
- [47:19]
Jack O'Brien
So a lot of people getting their throats slit.
- [47:22]
Molly Lambert
Oh, no.
- [47:23]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah. Yeah. A weird number, which would be anything higher than one.
- [47:28]
Molly Lambert
Okay. Yeah, I guess let's find out.
- [47:30]
Jack O'Brien
Yeah, I guess let's find out. And that's the episode.
- [47:35]
Robert Evans
Yeah, we should plug Jake Handerhand's new project.
- [47:38]
Jack O'Brien
Oh, yeah, Jake's got a new podcast Away days. Check it out. Out on Wherever Our Podcasts Exist by.
- [47:49]
Robert Evans
Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube.com behindthebastards.
- [48:14]
Ad
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it in therapy. By talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80.
- [49:15]
Promo
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.
- [49:23]
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
- [49:27]
I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.
- [49:32]
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [49:35]
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [49:44]
Jack O'Brien
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.