Part Three: H.L. Hunt: The First Elon Musk

Summary

Behind the Bastards: Part Three – H.L. Hunt: The First Elon Musk

Podcast: Behind the Bastards
Episode: Part Three: H.L. Hunt: The First Elon Musk
Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Brett (likely Robert Evans, but appears as "Brett" in this transcript)
Guest: Princess Weekes
Production: Cool Zone Media & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the deep dive into the life and legacy of H.L. Hunt, exploring his family dynamics, media manipulation tactics, right-wing propaganda innovations, and the evolution (and eventual downfall) of his influence on American conservative culture and politics. Brett and Princess Weekes unpack Hunt’s strange private life, his attempts to control the media narrative, his eccentric ventures (including a prototypical supplement hustle), and how his peculiarities foreshadowed many modern right-wing media practices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

H.L. Hunt’s Secret Families and Paranoia

• Secret Marriages & Fake Names: Hunt married his second partner, Frania, under a fake name—she didn’t know his real first name (03:45). When they had a daughter, he tried to name her "Haroldina" after his real name, Harold, despite keeping it secret.
• Bigamy Schemes: Hunt suggested to Frania that they move to Utah and become Mormons for legal bigamy, representing the lengths he’d go to maintain multiple families (04:24).
• Family Patterns: After his first wife died, Hunt took up with another partner but avoided marriage to keep control over his wealth—a recurring theme of paranoia and misogyny:

  “At least I'm not gonna be bigamously married again. I'm sure he winds up... I think he does actually give them a lot of money, but yeah, he doesn't wanna. He's not gonna get bigamously married again.” (05:33)

The Facts Forum & The Birth of Right-Wing Media Propaganda

• Facts Forum Origins: Hunt’s "Facts Forum" media venture aimed to appear nonpartisan but skewed conservative, featuring former FBI agents and other anti-communist staff (07:11).
• Support for McCarthyism: The show became a platform for Joseph McCarthy’s Red Scare, embedding anti-Communist hysteria into American media (07:55).
• Soundbite Journalism: Coverage of the McCarthy hearings—especially the famous “Have you no sense of decency, sir?” moment—ushered in the era of soundbite-driven journalism, making propaganda more effective (09:48).

The Liberal Media "Bugbear" and the Spawn of Biased Broadcasts

• Origins of “Liberal Media” Rhetoric: After the McCarthy debacle, Hunt and the right began attacking the "liberal media" as inherently biased—a tactic still used today (10:35).

  “If Edward R. Murrow were reporting today, they would call him woke. And I know that because they called him woke in the 50s...” (12:10)

• Targeting Integrated America: Hunt's propaganda especially attacked integration and multiculturalism, criticizing newscasters like Murrow and Cronkite as Communist sympathizers for simply depicting a diverse America (12:10–13:37).

The Anti-Catholic, Anti-JFK Campaign

• Hunt’s opposition to JFK was less about religion, more about tax policy (specifically the oil depletion allowance). He weaponized religious bigotry (anti-Catholicism) as political strategy by distributing inflammatory pamphlets at the DNC—illegally, and leading to congressional investigation (31:07–34:22).
• When confronted, Hunt claimed his pamphlets promoted LBJ, not targeted JFK, and dodged direct questioning by conveniently hiding away to “write a book” (35:38).

H.L. Hunt as a Right-Wing Media Pioneer

• Talk Radio’s Untapped Power: Hunt, recognizing talk radio’s reach, poured money into “Lifeline,” a Christian-tinged but still deeply conservative show, mastering the tax-exempt loopholes by couching propaganda in religious language (26:24–27:06).
• Creating the Model for Modern Conservative Media: His use of panel “debates” with intentionally less charismatic liberals inspired later right-wing TV (e.g., "Hannity & Colmes") (18:44).
• "Hunt for Truth" and Propaganda Infrastructure: He ran columns, newsletters, and magazines (like Human Events) to saturate the landscape (27:06).

Quixotic Ventures & Eccentricities

• Publishing Utopian Propaganda: Hunt’s vanity novel "Alpaca" envisioned a wealth-based voting system, with voting rights tied to tax payments—a model described as “a kind of fascist democracy” (36:01–38:32).
• Health Food & Supplements Hustles: Decades ahead of Alex Jones, Hunt launched a supplement business whose only marketing was his own show. His office was decorated with customer testimonials for his anti-gas pills ("Gast Magic") (46:03–47:28).
• Letter-Writing Campaigns: Hunt believed letters to the editor were the most effective persuasion tool and sent out dozens a day, using secretaries to mass-mail them under the guise of being an “ordinary citizen” (42:42–43:57).
• Reluctance Toward Charity: Hunt refused to give to charity—on record as saying the disabled should be “let to die rather than be a burden on society” (44:38).

  “Asked to contribute to diabetes research, Hunt responded... that society would be better off if persons who were permanently disabled or physically incapacitated and unable to financially care for themselves were let to die...” (44:38)

Decline and Legacy

• Public Perception Turns: Hunt’s reputation became radioactive, damaging political candidates (especially Goldwater) just through association (51:53). His own family’s extremism (John Birch Society, racist newsletters) further tainted the brand.
• Family Drama: Hunt’s children/“fail sons”—especially Bunker Hunt—were infamously incompetent and criminal, from trying to “corner the world’s silver market” to supporting George Wallace and far-right causes (56:55–58:22).
• Cultural Afterlife: The TV show ‘Dallas’ and its infamous villain J.R. Ewing were inspired by the Hunt family—especially Bunker Hunt’s exploits (58:23–59:00).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Soundbite Journalism & McCarthyism:

  “The media covers the McCarthy hearings... one of the first cases of soundbite journalism, right? And soundbite journalism in a positive way.” (08:18)

• On the “Liberal Media” as a Bugbear:

  "If Edward R. Murrow were reporting today, they would call him woke. And I know that because they called him woke in the 50s, like HL Hunt called him a woke leftist communist infiltrator.” (12:10)

• On the Deep Motivation for Hunt’s Activism:

  “His only real political issue is the oil depletion allowance. Everything else... it's all to protect the oil depletion allowance because he fucking loves that shit.” (33:00) “When Hunt talks of his country's troubles, he does not always sound funereal. But when he discusses the oil depletion allowance and possible legislative threats to it, his face takes on... stricken blankness of one who has just heard the last Trump...” (33:28)

• On Hunt’s Health Business Crankery:

  “One politician was lured to his office expecting a contribution, but left only with an ample supply of Hunt's gastro magic indigestion pills. Another... Bush met with Hunt in 1962, hoping for a contribution... It was filled with lifeline pamphlets.” (47:03)

• On Hunt’s Quixotic Vanity:

  “He invents the Alex Jones strategy... supplement and health food business. And it’s the only advertiser on his radio show and TV shows.” (46:03)

• Princess on Hunt’s Motivations:

  “I can excuse communism, but I draw the line at my oil allowance.” (33:24)

• On Charity and Eugenics:

  “Asked to contribute to diabetes research, Hunt responded... that society would be better off if persons who were permanently disabled or physically incapacitated and unable to financially care for themselves were let to die rather than to be a burden on society.” (44:38)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:45 – HL Hunt’s secret family & fake names
• 07:11 – Facts Forum & Joseph McCarthy connection
• 09:48 – Soundbite journalism’s birth with McCarthy hearings
• 12:10 – Early roots of "liberal media" as right-wing rhetoric
• 15:06 – Hunt’s “Answers for Americans” and William F. Buckley’s role
• 18:44 – Influence on Fox News/Hannity & Colmes debate model
• 26:24–27:06 – Lifeline and talk radio as the next conservative frontier
• 31:07–34:22 – Hunt’s anti-Catholic anti-JFK campaign and its consequences
• 36:01–38:32 – The “Alpaca” utopian novel and fascist voting ideas
• 42:42–43:57 – Hunt’s mass letter-to-editor blitz
• 44:38 – Quote: “Society would be better off if... disabled... were let to die”
• 46:03–47:28 – Health supplement business and handiwork
• 51:53 – The toxic legacy: how alignment with Hunt sabotaged Goldwater
• 56:55 – The disaster that awaited Hunt’s fortune and fail sons
• 58:23–59:00 – ‘Dallas’ and Bunker Hunt’s pop culture legacy

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Tone and Style

• Sharply satirical, irreverent, and energetic.
• Conversational interplay mixes pop culture, mockery, and serious commentary.
• Hosts make humor out of Hunt’s bizarre choices and draw direct lines from historical right-wing tactics to modern media and politics.

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Summary Takeaways

• H.L. Hunt used his wealth and media savvy to reshape American right-wing activism, creating propaganda models still with us today.
• His fear of paying taxes (oil depletion allowance) underpinned nearly all his “ideological” endeavors—including alliances with religion and racism.
• Hunt’s health gimmicks, do-it-yourself propaganda, and avoidance of direct charity mark him as a prototype for many later right-wing grifters.
• Despite unprecedented wealth and ambition, Hunt’s toxic legacy ended up making him and his ideas more infamous than influential, his eccentricities and bigotry fodder for satire (and soap operas) in the years to come.

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Memorable Final Note

• On the Hunt Family’s Lasting Impact:

  “[The show] Dallas is based off the Hunts. J.R. is based off of Bunker Hunt... So at least we get the show Dallas. You know, I'll take it.” (58:50)

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Guest plug:
Princess Weekes promotes her YouTube channel for pop culture and history commentary (59:39).

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This episode masterfully connects the dots between mid-century reactionary politics and contemporary right-wing media tactics, using H.L. Hunt’s life as a bizarre, cautionary roadmap.

Transcript

[Brett Weinstein]

Call Zone Media. Welcome back to behind the Bastards, part three of our series on HL Hunt this week. You are welcome. But you all should really thank Princess Weeks, our wonderful guest, for agreeing to sit in for a third episode in a marathon recording session. Thank you, Princess. You are braver than the troops.

[Princess Weekes]

Thank you. I love to learn and I honestly just genuinely love hearing about this stuff. This is so fascinating.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah.

[Princess Weekes]

And terrible.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I love telling you about it.

[Princess Weekes]

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[Robert Smigel]

good life Sleep Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Who's the worst singer in the group?

[Brett Weinstein]

The worst?

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge

[Brett Weinstein]

donation to the group?

[Robert Smigel]

The Yardbirds.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right? That's the name.

[Robert Smigel]

The Harvard Yard. They're open if you have a name suggestion.

[Princess Weekes]

We're open.

[Robert Smigel]

Since you guys are middle aged, one erection. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Brett Weinstein]

Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about in the news, Body Bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into the forensics. Listen to Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening.

[Brett Weinstein]

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. I seen something in the road. I is thought it was a sleeping thing and there was a pool of blood. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 is out now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's start by talking about our boy H.L. hunt's second family. Right? Because I discussed how they. He eventually moves them up to New York and has a guy marry them. What? I did not. Because I went in and kind of added some stuff to the script once I realized that we were gonna wind up getting three parts. And I found something I'd forgotten to add that was in my notes Doc, which is that apparently Frania, when he marries her, she didn't even know his real first name. He marries her under a fake name.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh, my God.

[Brett Weinstein]

And one of the notes that Hindershot has in her book is that she probably first starts suspecting that something's weird when they have their first child, who is a girl just like his first child with. With Lyta. And he names her Haroldina, which is not. He's not telling her his first name is Harold, but he names her after himself. And he names her. He tries to name her Haroldina.

[Princess Weekes]

God.

[Brett Weinstein]

Which is, like, crazy. But I'm not Harold. That's not my name. Why are you so. Why is that so important to you, man? That's really weird, right?

[Princess Weekes]

Like, be better.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah.

[Princess Weekes]

No risk.

[Brett Weinstein]

That's just bizarre. What an odd guy. When she finds out he tries to get her before he moves to New York. He tries to convince Frannia to move to Utah and become a Mormon so that they can legally quote, unquote, be bigamous.

[Princess Weekes]

The rule book never changes. The rulebook never changes. He's like, listen, babe, we can get a farm. It's.

[Brett Weinstein]

What if we're just Mormons?

[Princess Weekes]

What if we just Mormons. Latter day. Let's go.

[Brett Weinstein]

Not illegal. Then. First off, your first wife wouldn't be in Utah. Second, you're not Mormon.

[Princess Weekes]

But I could be, and that's what matters.

[Brett Weinstein]

And, yeah, it's when that stuff doesn't work that he, like, pays her to move to New York. Right. And sets up trust for all the kids and finds someone to marry them, pretend to be the father. Now, this is. He's just going to get and have kids with a third woman after this. And I think he's. I think actually this is after Lyda dies that he has his third partner, But I'm not 100% sure, but they wind up having several kids, and he, like, lives with them later in life in Dallas. But he doesn't ever marry her, Right. Because he's. Wow, you know, he learned his lesson.

[Princess Weekes]

He's not gonna take his money. Yeah, not letting no broads take my

[Brett Weinstein]

money this time at least I'm not gonna be bigamously married again. I'm sure he winds up. I think he does actually give them a lot of money, but yeah, he doesn't wanna. He's not gonna get bigamously married again. So the need to seem fair and unbiased meant that Smoot, you know, on his the facts for him, his former FBI man host has to act like he respects the liberal line on things, but he's always visibly more interested in the conservative arguments. Another good example of that would come from one time smootkitz asked, should we continue to handle Korea as a limited police action? You know, this is right at the start of the Korean War. Or should we, you know, put more troops into it? Right. Quote. Smoot first dryly answered in the affirmative, quoting Adlai Stevenson. Korea is the most remarkable effort the world has ever seen to make collective security work. Choosing to repel the first armed aggression of the Communists, we chose to make bitter sacrifices today to save civilization tomorrow. On the negative side, Smoot drew a portrait of a hypothetical soldier named Joe. It's cold up here in the winter, sometimes 30 below zero. If a boy cries, his tears turn to ice. And then there is the enemy, always the enemy. And the kind of fight that man fought centuries ago. Knives and fists, fingers groping for eyes and teeth, seeking a hot, a soft spot in the neck. Maybe Joe will die in the slit trench and maybe he will live, his hands sour and gummy with half digested rice gruel ripped out of the stomach of a. A bleeding bundle of rags and bones at his feet. Okay, so wild, wild little rant to go on there, man.

[Princess Weekes]

Yeah, I was just like, bruh, look at it. You wanted to be a screenwriter.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, yeah. In one of my favorite lines from her book, Heather Hendershot writes, quote, smoot could somehow snarl effeminate egghead in such a way that it sounded infinitely worse than son of a bitch. So he's like that kind of, you know, that kind of broadcaster. Now, the Facts Forum made itself a nexus of Support for Joseph McCarthy as Hunt sought to convince regular Americans that communists needed to be rooted out. Joe guests on only one episode of the Facts Forum, but his researcher and future wife, Jean Kerr, worked for the Facts Forum as a staffer. Another early staffer was Robert E. Lee. Not that Robert E. Lee, I was gonna say, yeah, this Robert E. Lee was a former FBI man who helped McCarthy compile his list of 205 communists in the State Department. And there's so many FBI guys who work for the Facts Forum that there's like a joke in the FBI that like that's the retirement plan is working for this fucking right wing billionaire. So things are going well. He's using the Facts forum to support his buddy Joe McCarthy. But then tail gunner Joe makes the mistake of picking on the Army. And the 1954 Army McCarthy hearings are a disaster for the man and for the broader cause of being visibly crazy as an anti communist activist. The hearings were broadcast on television. And while only ABC and the Dumont network broadcast the hearings in full because they're 36 days long, the bigger networks, CBS and NBC, broadcast excerpts. And this actually the fact that these networks, because there's money in advertising now, they don't want to run just 36 days of congressional hearings. It's, it's way, it's a huge waste of money. But because they decide to take excerpts and just run clips from it. This is actually the way the, the, the media covers the McCarthy hearings is one of the first cases of sound bite journalism, right? And sound bite journalism in a positive way. Where previously the reporting on this would have just been kind of dull. Articles about another series of hearings about communism in the US that most Americans wouldn't have known there was anything to be upset by because these guys journalists are looking for like, well what, what are the craziest things McCarthy saying? What are the wildest moments from this? It, it makes it impossible to ignore. And they're playing this over and over again that like, no, this is actually a real problem, right? Like this guy is out of his mind and is just attacking people for no reason. Like that really how this gets reported really helps to make that case because these networks are looking for like the most embarrassing and shocking moments and clipping them out and playing them over and over again in what's fair on the air, Hindershot writes Joseph Welch's famous rhetorical question, have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, was not only televised live by Both ABC and Dumont on day 30 of the hearings, but also repeated dozens of times on radio and TV. That night, following McCarthy's attack on General George C. Marshall, former President Harry S. Truman appeared on Edward R. Murrow's See it now and expressed his own feelings about McCarthy. The man who made that attack isn't fit to shine. General Marshall's shoes.

[Princess Weekes]

Damn.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, it's a pretty, it's a pretty sick burn actually.

[Princess Weekes]

He meant it. No, that's really interesting though because it's like, I think when we, when we were growing up and we learned about this era of McCarthyism, it seems so like inherently absurd. And you're just thinking like, how could that ever happen? Like, isn't it just so obvious? And then you're here and you're like, well, yeah, people don't pay attention to the longer thing. They need the sound bites, sadly.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, they need the sound bites, right? And there's actually some benefits to that. It's not all downsides. Now one of the things this does, the fact that this is kind of destroys McCarthy, it makes Hunt furious. And it makes him furious because he becomes convinced this evidence of the liberal media and the pernicious left wing bias within the media, right? It's a communist organism, you know, and this is kind of where the liberal media as a conservative bugbear starts, right? Not just with Hunt, but it starts as a result in a big way. Like it's majorly supercharged by the reaction to the McCarthy hearings. And Hunt is one of the people leading the charge in attacking the liberal media, right? And for HL Hunt, one of the things I think is really important to point out today, if you listen to like what Bari Weiss and like the free fucking press people say, they all talk about Edward R. Murrow too. It's like we need to get back to a time when newsmen weren't political and you know, they just were telling people the truth and they were trusted. And in those days, you know, Americans knew that they could rely on their, you know, the people giving them the news to not just be in it for personal political gain, just some like wokest bullshit. If Edward R. Murrow were reporting the day, they would call him woke. And I know that because they called him woke in the 50s, like HL Hunting called him a woke leftist communist infiltrator. And they called him it because he was deliberately and aggressively multicultural, right? To quote from Hendershot's article, Murrow was fiercely patriotic. His America was an inclusive democratic place in which citizens rationally discussed their problems. When Murrow took See It Now's cameras to Korea for Christmas in 1952, he celebrated the sacrifices of the troops. Murrow also made a point of picturing an integrated platoon that included not only whites and blacks, but also a Chinese American and a Korean American. A gesture that surely rubbed some viewers the wrong way, right? And fucking they attack like the, because the newsletter for lifelines isn't subject to the Fairness Doctrine, they're able to be really political. And in that newsletter, Hunt calls him Chow in Cronkite and calls Dan Rather, Ho Chi Rather, right again. They are calling these guys fucking communists back then too. Like, Walter Cronkite was never seen as a totally unbiased and fair man by conservatives. They hated him. Just really want to make that point as clearly as I can.

[Princess Weekes]

It's so exhausting because. And they keep telling us that these are the people that we can reach. We just got to give them, just give them a little bit of more information. It's like they have the information. They don't like it, they don't want it.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, they thought Edward R. Murrow was a communist because he pointed out that there were fucking Chinese people in the U.S. army, right?

[Princess Weekes]

Like, and had been so for ages. Like, yeah, some Chinese families have been here longer than some of these, other than Trump's family.

[Brett Weinstein]

These people have always hated this kind of shit, right? Always hated the idea that we're a multicultural country. And anyone who celebrates it, even if they're celebrating it in the context of supporting the Korean War, right? He gets called a communist and supporting

[Princess Weekes]

the troops and like.

[Brett Weinstein]

And supporting the truth doesn't matter, right? Doesn't matter. No communism. So this, the fact that fucking Hunt goes so crazy after Moreau and gets so pissed about the reaction to the McCarthy hearings gets him in trouble. Democratic congressmen start being like, wait a second, he's getting like public funding basically for making non partisan media. And this is what they're calling nonpartisan Congressman. One congressman points out that Hunt's tied to Joseph McCarthy and there's complaints that the fact form is benefiting from its tax free status despite being very biased. And they start being investigations. Lee, his former staffer, was made FCC commissioner in 1954, which further upset Democrats who were like, well, now his guy is controlling the fcc, so of course he won't get attacked. Now what's weird is Lee's actually a really fair minded FCC commissioner. He does a lot of stuff that pisses off the right. He's actually like surprisingly good at the job, I think. And Hendershot proposes that the whole brouhaha does more to make Hunt famous as a right wing crank than it does to actually help his shows, right? That like the fact that he's tied to Lee and the fact that like he's like, there's this uproar about it, he becomes known as being like a crank, like it does not spread. He doesn't make his. His ideas more popular. Now past this point, because of how many people get pissed off about this, Hunt becomes increasingly famous, right. He's now someone who is known and talked about for his political activism. And he does not like this. His stage fright. Right. Because he's got stage fright, right. Putting himself out there. Right. In fact, like his as a young man, his stage fright is so bad that he once swallows a bunch of tobacco to make himself sick to get out of giving a speech when he's like a younger businessman. So the fact that like the eyes of America are now on him and he's being accused of partisan instigation fucks Hunt up. And in 1956, he shuts down the facts for him to avoid controversy. Not because he thinks he's done anything wrong, because he just doesn't like being under the gun like that. Right. Like he's just anxious. So he, yeah, he's a wuss. He does launch immediately another series called Answers for American. This actually launched, I think, a little before the Fax Forum quits. It's a public service program that's broadcast on 22 TV stations and 360 radio stations broadcast live. This was a half hour panel discussion on ABC that featured a mix of liberals and conservatives. There's your liberal panel and your conservative panel. Repping the left was former Congressman George Combs and New York U. Professor Charles Hodges. Opposed to them were William F. Buckley and a rotating guest. Now, if you don't know William F. Buckley, he is like the proto Ben Shapiro. He's an essayist and a public debater who gets really famous going on TV to debate politely liberals, right. About the issues of the day. Right. That's how he's known. And he is still to this day like liberal, like centrist liberal Democrats. Buckley is like the, the ideal of the conservative intellectual. He's one of the good ones, right. He's the. He was not, but he's like respectable. Like, this is how you should do it. Look at the respect he always showed the people he was debating alongside.

[Princess Weekes]

Their nostalgia goggles for him is always just like we used to be able to have these conversations in peace.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. And when it, like, by the way, his son is like a major pro Rhodesia activist. Like these, this. Not polite ever. But yeah, like that's, that's his, his space in the American mind right now. You can already see in the way the show is set up how some of the bias creeps in. This is supposed to be two liberals and Two conservatives seems non biased. But why is one of the conservatives always a rotating guest? Is it maybe because that makes the conservatives seem more dynamic and the liberals seem like it's just these two old hokey college professor types? Right?

[Princess Weekes]

Right.

[Brett Weinstein]

Buckley also is a. He's a great performer. William F. Buckley is one of the first media trained guys who exists. Right. And the liberals that Hunt picks are not super charismatic figures, as Hendershot writes. Combs did not fare well into the harsh studio lights. And although most of the participants chain smoked, it was only Combs to whom the smoke seemed to cling in a thick film. In his three piece suit with carnation boutonnae, he effused a stereotypical east coast liberal establishment Persona. Professor Hodges was articulate, but often came across as a cartoonish liberal intellectual, or worse, an old windbag. Buckley spoke an easily digestible conservative. Sound bites such as we would rather die than be enslaved by communism. Right. Again, you can see the evolution, how this is even a little more disguised as non biased while still pushing a very clear ideological line. And this is such a good idea. Fox News is going to rip this basic model off decades later for their hit show Hannity and Combs.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh yeah.

[Brett Weinstein]

The same basic premise applies the aesthetic of debate, but with the certainty that one side is gonna win and the enemy's always gonna look like a big stupid dope. And you also make sure that the conservative looks, you know, like young and put together while the liberal looks like, you know, like a nerd. Right. I've got a photo of Hannity and Combs for the viewers, but like Sean Hannity at the start of that full head of hair, you know, younger guy, Combs, hat, balding, kinda looks like a nerd.

[Princess Weekes]

Costanza.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right.

[Princess Weekes]

Wow.

[Brett Weinstein]

So in the age of social media, this idea reached its final form with guys like Ben Shapiro, Charlie Kirk, and I forget the name of the change my mind guy who would go on the college campuses with the, you know, whatever.

[Princess Weekes]

Change my mind with the failed marriage.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, I forget his fucking. Yeah, they all got failed marriages. Except for. Well, I guess not. I guess they don't all have failed marriages. Just that guy. I forget his name, but then I don't care to remember it. But yeah, and you and this instead of like, you don't even have like the boring hokey professors now you have like the liberals and left are represented by like this carousel of college kids that you pick out because they clearly don't have media training and they're not like good at debating with a professional broadcaster on Television, right?

[Princess Weekes]

Like, it's like the more septum piercings, the better. Speaking as the septum piercing effort.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. Are they a little high? Good, get them in here. Yeah. You know who else is a little high? The sponsors that support this podcast. You know, every single one thing we guarantee is that every advertiser on this show, just the second I said just. Just sparked up a fat blunt. Every single one of them. Especially the. The Washington State Highway Patrol. You hear that ad? You know, the whole Washington State Highway Patrol is blazing a bone right now.

[Princess Weekes]

No notes.

[Brett Weinstein]

Guys don't like talking about ed, but if something's been off in the bedroom, you're not alone. And you don't need to wait longer than you need to take action. Getting real treatment is simple. And through hims, it's a hundred percent online. At some point, you've got to stop blaming stress, sleep, or just getting older. If bedroom performance is in question, it's probably crossed your mind to do something about it. The good news? You don't have to jump through hoops to fix it. HIMS connects you with licensed healthcare providers online, giving you simple access to legitimate ED treatment options from home. No awkward appointments, no pharmacy lines. You just complete a simple online intake form and a provider will review your information and determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment ships directly to your door in discreet packaging. To get simple online access to personalized affordable care for ED, weight loss and more, visit HIMSS.com BTB that's HIMS.com BTB for your free online visit HIMS.com BTB prescription required. See website for details and important safety information. Sodenafil is the generic version of Viagra. Viagra is a registered trademark of Beatrice a Viatris Specialty llc. HIMSS not affiliated with or endorsed by Beatrice and Doug. There's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at the end a comedy show. Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date? Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent. Liberty Liberty. Liberty Liberty.

[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help Make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Who's the worst singer in the group?

[Brett Weinstein]

The worst?

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Brett Weinstein]

Me.

[Robert Smigel]

Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation?

[Brett Weinstein]

The Yardbirds, right? That's the name.

[Robert Smigel]

The Harvard Yard. They're open.

[Brett Weinstein]

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

[Robert Smigel]

Since you guys are middle aged, one erection, listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast, humor me.

[Brett Weinstein]

I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about in the news, body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into the forensics. Listen to Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Body Bags with Joseph Scott Moore Code and start listening.

[Brett Weinstein]

And we're back talking about the facts forum. Well, that's dead. And anyway, two years after he kills the facts forum, hunt starts a new series, Lifeline. Now, this is not, he's not this time. He's not going to try to get the tax breaks by being balanced. Right. He decides that's not worth, you know, the, the trouble. So I'm not going to claim that we're not. We don't have like a line. Instead, in order to avoid getting in trouble, I'm not going to reference political parties or political tendencies at all. I'm not going to say the Democrats or the left. I'm not going to say Republicans or the right or conservatism. Instead, I'm going to have, I'm going to have this fucking preacher guy come up here, the Reverend Wayne Poucher, who was, if you want to know who this guy's background, he was the former campaign manager for strom Thurman's successful 1954 campaign.

[Princess Weekes]

Well, he's on the show.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. So Poucher is first just kind of less aggressive than Smoot was. Right. And he speaks more about religion and stuff. He's not talking about the left being evil. Instead he talks about, instead of referring to them like by their political terms, he calls them the mistaken and he calls the good guys the constructive people. Right. And so he gets away from these, like, fairness standards by not talking about the left and the Right. But talking about the mistaken and the constructive. And he speaks more in like, parables about, like, right and wrong. And it's very clear that he's talking about politics, but he's not using political terms. So it kind of slips by. Right.

[Princess Weekes]

So annoying.

[Brett Weinstein]

And in 19. Yeah, it's really annoying. Now, Hunt does an interview with Playboy in 1966 where he talks about why he's not using. Why this Lifeline doesn't use the term conservative and why he doesn't like using that as propaganda anymore. And he says conservative is an unfortunate word. It denotes mossback, reactionary and old fogeyism. Right. So I don't want to seem like an old fogey. So I'm just going to talk about the mistaken and the constructive people right now. I don't. I think this is a mixed success. This, this show is never very wildly popular for, like, legitimate reasons. A lot of people listen because sometimes it's the only thing on the air in a lot of areas. Right? So it gets listeners from that. But it's kind of boring. It sounds much milder. It sounds a lot more boring. The mystery was at least exciting. He was aggressive, right? This dude Poucher is like boring. And he mostly talks about God and he ends every broadcast with don't forget to pray. He makes that. He makes that his, his. His tagline. Because that means Hunt can claim an exemption on the basis of running a religious organization for tax purposes. Right?

[Princess Weekes]

That'll.

[Brett Weinstein]

Good shit. Good shit. By all accounts, Lifeline was just as conservative as the Facts Forum, but a lot more boring because Hunt is scared of pissing people off. Now he's also making a lot of other propaganda. He is, by dollar amount, the number one producer of right wing propaganda in like the 50s through the 60s. He is publishing newspapers, too, and magazines, including the newspaper, the magazine Human Events, which goes on to be pretty popular. He has a regular column that he sells to a bunch of different newspapers that he writes called Hunt for Truth. Oh, you get it? You get it.

[Princess Weekes]

I hate that. That's a good name. I mean, I wouldn't watch it, but I know someone's dad would.

[Brett Weinstein]

So the Nation summarizes the state of his propaganda operation in 1964. This way. H.L. hunt, in addition to being very probably the richest man in America, is very probably the country's most powerful propagandist for the extreme right. The main vehicle for his brand of conservatism today is Lifeline, a radio program originating in Washington D.C. and daily reaching an estimated audience of 5 million persons. In 45 states, it has heard over 331 stations, among which are 25% of the nation's Clear Channel outlet. That's a lot, just because, again, there's not much else to put on there. And this is something that conservatives will learn from a lot of. Where we are right now politically is the result of the fact that for years, like, 20 some years, liberals kind of ignored talk radio for the most part. There were a couple attempts to get into it, but it was. And it was just assumed that, like, well, the fact, like, more people listen and trust, like, the news and, you know, magazines and newspapers and TV news and, you know, all of that is more liberal than it is conservative. And, like, talk radio was out there being the only thing in tens of millions of Americans ears for hours as they're commuting, driving all across the country. I grew up, I lost. Listened to so many hundreds hours of Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh, all these guys, and it made a really solid core. People wonder, like, why is there this core of, like, 30% of the country that will never reconsider supporting Trump? Talk radio is a big part of why. Yeah, And Hunt isn't good. He doesn't figure quite out how to make it work that way. But he's the first guy who really realizes that why talk radio is valuable and everything that comes after is at least influenced by that.

[Princess Weekes]

And it also shows how the left is always really so supportive of institutions and, like, the power of institutions that they just won't even make a solid attempt because, like, it was how many years into Joe Rogan?

[Brett Weinstein]

Liberals, at least.

[Princess Weekes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, like, liberals were like, oh, we should have a Joe Rogan thing. It's like a podcasting thing or YouTube. And then Twitch. It's like, oh, we should. We should finally have someone in this space. And it's like, yeah, finally, you invested in stuff.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. You can influence people's politics by making them listen to a crazy guy for hours. Maybe you should have your own crazy asshole that people like to listen to. I don't know.

[Princess Weekes]

Or the other thing.

[Brett Weinstein]

Having that guy didn't work. I'm not a big. We need a Joe Rogan of. Of. For fucking the Democratic Party. It just doesn't work that way. You're never going to succeed doing that if you're just like, let's make our own Democratic Joe. You're always going to fail if that's how you think about it. But what you do need is, like, fucking people who are crazy popular that a lot of folks listen to who are talking in about politics in a way that is like usable to you. And when you see people like that, instead of discarding them and like hating them and running away from them, you should try to find ways like the smart strategies to try to find ways to benefit from that and to like make them make that useful to you as opposed to pretending nobody cares about this stuff and they're just assholes talking on the Internet. They are just assholes talking on the Internet, but unfortunately it matters, right?

[Princess Weekes]

Exactly.

[Brett Weinstein]

I say as an asshole talking on the Internet, hey, I do it.

[Princess Weekes]

That's my full time job on YouTube. It's like, I definitely think it's so frustrating because like the right, what it is able to do with having so much young talent is really have like a lot of hypervisibility in those spaces. Whereas like, you know, you can only be academic for so long in a time period where like no one wants to read.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right, exactly. So the Lifeline advisory board included the CEO of Sears, Robert Wood and John Wayne, but it also hosted several ministers. Yeah, John Wayne, baby. Helping to shape the future of talk radio.

[Princess Weekes]

Come on.

[Brett Weinstein]

The religious right was not a thing yet in an organized political way that doesn't start until like the same start of the seventies.

[Princess Weekes]

No abortion yet.

[Brett Weinstein]

I mean, yeah, that's not really a massive. Again, Hunt is going to be one of the people who helps push that. Even though he is not really religious and doesn't really care about that stuff. He is again one of the earlier conservatives to see, oh you know what if I marry my feelings on tax policy and like stopping people from voting with all of these like weird religious conservative like bugbears like abortion, I can make those people support my crazy tax shit and use that as a political weapon too. Right, right. So again, Hunt foresees this. He tries to use Christianity to spread his own anti government message. His first wife Lyda dies in the 50s and after he gets with his, well she's not really a wife, but he joins her Baptist church. His pastor, Reverend Criswell was a howling reactionary. In 1960, Hunt printed up an anti Catholic sermon Criswell had written and handed it out at the DNC because JFK is running for president. It included this line. The election of a Catholic as president would mean the end of religious liberty in America. Like you know, the thing that happened. Hunt dedicated numerous columns to Kennedy, who he warned would sell the nation out to communists and or the Pope. His real issue, what's very funny to me is that like, and or, and, or he doesn't hate JFK because of like they're, you know, JFK is more of like a liberal progressive and he's very conservative. He hates JFK specifically. And the Catholic stuff is like, he's using that because he thinks it'll be useful in getting other people to hate jfk. He hates JFK because JFK supports reviewing the oil depletion allowance and changing it to end that loophole that lets oil men not pay taxes. Right.

[Princess Weekes]

And there it is. I thought you were gonna say, cause he's so hot. And he was like, I can't have that.

[Brett Weinstein]

But the oil thing, Mitchell Hunt's. It's his only real political issue is the oil depletion allowance. Everything else, all the cultural stuff that he talks about. I mean, he does believe in the anti communism, but 90% of his propaganda is about keeping the oil depletion allowance. Everything else, like the working with the religious right, it's all to protect the oil depletion allowance because he fucking loves that shit.

[Princess Weekes]

He's like, I can excuse communism, but I draw the line at my oil allowance.

[Brett Weinstein]

But me paying taxes per the nation. When Hunt talks of his country's troubles, he does not always sound funereal. But when he discusses the oil depletion allowance and possible legislative threats to it, his face takes on the stricken blankness of one who has just heard the last Trump. I'm in favor of depletion allowances for all natural resources, he said recently. But without the depletion allowance for oil, we are utterly ruined Again. You're the richest man on earth. You would just have to pay taxes.

[Princess Weekes]

But he's got so many kids.

[Brett Weinstein]

Like, support the roads and stuff. Yeah, he's got so many kids. This is why hunt promptly had 200,000 reprints of Criswell's sermon made and mailed out, after which he sat back and hoped to watch a wave of aroused Protestantism wash Kennedy out of the running. Right. Like that's at least as far as the nation is concerned. Like that's what his goal is here. It doesn't work.

[Princess Weekes]

Sadly, Nixon was on the docket.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, it really. What happens is this just pisses people off. There's a bunch of editorials about like, this guy's trying to force Kennedy out because he doesn't want to pay taxes. And it just kind of pisses every. And a lot of people get angry that, like, he's trying to make people hysteric about an anti Catholic. He's trying to use. He's trying to like, rustle up a bunch of anti Catholic bigotry so he doesn't have to pay taxes. Like, people recognize this and call it out and it pisses folks off. It draws the Senate's attention again too. They point out that, like, hey, this flyer you distributed at the dnc, it's actually a federal crime to distribute anonymous circulars after the start of a campaign to influence a political campaign in this way. And you did not note at all who paid for this. You committed a crime. There's an uproar. There's a Senate subcommittee investigation. Hunt just hides like, he panics and he, like, basically goes on the lam a little bit and he just pretends he can't make the meeting. Yeah, he's like, hiding. So Criswell has to take it on the chin in a Senate subcommittee meeting and, like, actually talk to Congress. And Criswell, like, pretends he doesn't know anything about Hunt's money and stuff. When Hunt finally surfaced again, he admits that he paid for the leaflet, but he's like, oh, I didn't do it to hurt JFK. I did it to help LBJ's campaign because I'm really pro LBJ.

[Princess Weekes]

Texas, baby.

[Brett Weinstein]

That's all. That's the only reason I did it. He also claimed that I didn't run away to avoid being investigated. I ran away because I had a book to write for the good of the nation. Like, I came up with an idea of the book that's really gonna change everything. So I was just like, writing. I just didn't. I couldn't make it to Congress. Sorry about that, guys. Now, he did write a book, the

[Princess Weekes]

48 Laws of Power.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, 48. No, it's even weirder. It's even sillier. So in 1960, he publishes his first novel, Alpaca, which is a work of right wing utopian fiction. The book took place in an ideal society that followed Hunt's plan for a wealth based voting system Hendershot describes. In his perfect world, political discussion could only take place via the printed word, discussing politics on radio and TV, or speech making before an audience of more than 200 people was outlawed as inflammatory. It was widely reported that Hunt had hired someone to write the romantic parts of Alpaca, as he was only interested in the politics. When the book breaks from political exegesis, we find our right wing lovers spouting inane dialogue such as, I am putty in your hands. I need to read this book one of these days.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh my God.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. And there's like A bunch of cool stuff in there. The book was published by H.L. hunt Publishing, a company he created to publish phone books. So just as like, a side business, he has a phone book company that. He has published his shitty novel. That writer for that Nation piece notes that by the mid-60s, a lot of Dallas newsmen had come to believe that Hunt had based the protagonist of his shitty novel on an idealized version of himself. And here's one relevant line from the novel Huge. And this is about the protagonist. He had burning convictions, but there were few in Alpaca, he told himself, who could agree with him, right? Like, he's this. He's this iconoclast genius rebel, and other people just don't see how brilliant he is, you know, it's very much Hunt thinking of about himself.

[Princess Weekes]

Yeah, he's like, I'm gonna write someone who's so smart.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. The smartest man alive. The article goes on to describe the model constitution that Hunt presents in his novel. A constitution that gives each person a quota of votes based primarily on how much he pays in taxes. There are other ways of getting votes under the Hunt plan. If you are old enough to draw retirement pay but refuse to accept it, you get two extra votes. What if you are a government worker and refuse to accept more than 50% of your pay, you get one extra vote. On the other hand, anyone receiving welfare or sick pay from the government gets no vote at all.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh, okay. No blacks, no poors, no, no, no.

[Brett Weinstein]

Just rich guys get a lot of votes.

[Princess Weekes]

Mm. That's crazy.

[Brett Weinstein]

Now a book reviewer interviewing Hunt says to him after reading his book, it's a kind of fascist democracy, if you get what I mean. And Hunt, later in the interview, says, you're the only one who understood what I was getting at. I think it's in reference to another line, but it's very telling.

[Princess Weekes]

He's like, see me.

[Brett Weinstein]

So Hunt sends copies of his stupid book to every sitting congressman, along with a number of foreign heads of state and, quote, many colleges. He brags that he has a sequel planned which would present an even better constitution as long as he could just get a couple of weeks to finish it. And he never publishes this book, but the working title was Yourtopia. Mm.

[Princess Weekes]

Not Alpaca 2.

[Brett Weinstein]

He does eventually do a sequel to Alpaca, but he doesn't publish Yourtopia.

[Princess Weekes]

Mm. Terrible.

[Brett Weinstein]

Great stuff. Great. Very 60s novel.

[Princess Weekes]

You have your own publishing house, and you still can't finish a second novel.

[Brett Weinstein]

Nah. Nah, man. It's hard. Look, hey, I'm working on that one myself. It's tough. You know what else is hard? It's hard for me when I see people not giving the proper amount of respect and love to the products and services that support this podcast. Why don't we all just think about them and how nice they are and also listen to their ads for a second? And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first date? Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent. Liberty Liberty. Liberty Liberty.

[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Who's the worst singer in the group?

[Brett Weinstein]

The worst?

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation?

[Brett Weinstein]

The Yardbirds, right? That's the name.

[Robert Smigel]

The Harvard Yard. But they're open.

[Brett Weinstein]

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

[Robert Smigel]

Since you guys are middle aged. One erection. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Brett Weinstein]

Humor me. I did some jokes to make me seem funny.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about in the news, Body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into the forensics. Listen to Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free Iheart Apple and search Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening.

[Princess Weekes]

What would you eat if you had to start over?

[Brett Weinstein]

Real simple. Poor man's poor woman's food.

[Robert Smigel]

Black beans, chicken, rice, plantains.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yes, that's always. That's poor people's food, man.

[Robert Smigel]

But being Nigerian, that's come on a

[Princess Weekes]

go to on the podcast Eating While broke. I sit down with celebrities, entrepreneurs and creators as they revisit the meals they once relied on and the moments that shaped their journey. Named best food podcast at the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards, this show is all about real conversations on money, growth and what it really takes to make it. It was times where me and Lex will, like, definitely get into it because we not making any money. Like, I need to start making money. Like, why are we doing this? But I don't know. I think we just always knew that we had some something really good and eventually people were going to catch on and so we just thugged it out. The full season is available to binge right now. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Brett Weinstein]

We're back. So one of Hunt's dearest beliefs is that letters to the editor are the part of the paper that people read most often. That, like, people just skim over the articles they want to read. Letters to the editor because people have a natural curiosity over what other ordinary people have to say. That's H.L. hunt's, like, most deeply held belief. And he's not an ordinary person. But he also thinks that if you write a letter to the editor, people assume you are. And so for most of his public life, he's writing, like, sometimes more than a dozen letters to the editor per day. And he has a small army of secretaries who will mimeograph them and will mail them to hundreds of newspapers. So he just has, like a rant about politics or fucking taxes or kids these days, and he'll write a letter to the editor, and he'll send it to every newspaper he can think of or his secretaries can think of to get it printed. Right.

[Princess Weekes]

I. I'm. Sometimes I'm so glad I don't have money because this is like. This is like the impulses of, like, me writing to, like, Teen Vogue be like, you don't understand. The sexiest man in America is not Blake Sheldon. It is.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. Dear Teen Vogue, there are too many states. Please eliminate three. I am not a crank.

[Princess Weekes]

Exactly.

[Brett Weinstein]

Hunt is that guy.

[Princess Weekes]

I'm a hip kid.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, yeah, I'm cool. He thinks that, like, this will really get Americans trick him into believing my politics. They'll just read all these letters to the editor and assume I'm a normal guy and they won't be able to catch it. Now, this leads me to a very funny quote from Heather Hendershot, Hunt's book quote. Respectable businessmen gave money to the causes in which they believed Hunt wouldn't even give to local Dallas charities, much less political campaigns. Asked to contribute to diabetes research, Hunt responded, as summarized in an FBI memo, that society would be better off if persons who were permanently disabled or physically incapacitated and unable to financially care for themselves were let to die rather than to be a burden on society.

[Princess Weekes]

What? Great. Okay. Wow.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah.

[Princess Weekes]

He loved Buck V. Bell. He was like, we endorse that.

[Brett Weinstein]

He sure did. Yeah. Yeah. He's like just the kind of piece of shit you would imagine. Like, perfectly so. Now I will say this is all frustrating. Like, the fact that he's trying to brute force his horrible genocidal politics into the world is disgusting. And there's like, there's so many good quotes. Like one of the Nation, he's like, I'm slow, but I'm the best writer I know. Like, he's certain about that, even though, again, he's not. He's not great. Right. Like, he's not a particularly good writer. And editors of these newspapers that he's trying to, like, get letters to kind of call him on his bullshit. One Texas editor told the Nation, hunt earns in one hour about 20,000 to $12,000. That's what I earn in a year. He probably spends an hour dictating each letter that comes in here. I like to cut them in half because that means I'm putting about $5,000 of hunt money in the waste basket.

[Princess Weekes]

Bars.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, I love that.

[Princess Weekes]

Love it.

[Brett Weinstein]

That's funny. Yeah. So in 1959, Hunt started a health food and supplement business. Ah, you got it. If you're a right wing crazy. He's like the first of these, though,

[Princess Weekes]

you know, he really is a trailblazer. Like, all these bitches are his sons.

[Brett Weinstein]

Like, truly, what's interesting is he invents. I didn't realize this. He invents the Alex Jones strategy, where he has his like, right wing propaganda station. And he invents a supplement and health food business. And it's the only advertiser on his radio show and TV shows. So it exists to sell the products. Right, Right. So the sole advertiser of Lifeline is his. His health products business. And his favorite product is Gast Magic, an anti gas pill that he was so proud of. His. His office is described by. That the Nation author is basically empty, but there's a plaque in it made with the letter from a happy customer being like, thank you for making these gas pills. That's like the only decoration he has.

[Princess Weekes]

He's like, this is my true pride and joy. Not one of my 15 kids.

[Brett Weinstein]

My true Pride and joy. Not any of my 15 kids. Fuck those kids.

[Princess Weekes]

This is my only child.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, it's. It's so fun. I want to quote from Heather again because she's got a line about this One politician was lured to his office expecting a contribution, but left only with an ample supply of Hunt's gastro magic indigestion pills. Another George Herbert Walker Bush met with Hunt in 1962, hoping for a contribution to his congressional campaign. His heart must have skipped a beat at the end of the meeting when Hunt discreetly gave him a bulging an envelope. It was filled with lifeline pamphlets.

[Princess Weekes]

That's funny. Incredible.

[Brett Weinstein]

That's so funny.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh, my God. That's such a good troll.

[Brett Weinstein]

He's such a weird crank about his health food business, which, again, he's crazy rich from oil. This is not a meaningful amount of money, but it's clearly his passion. Like, one of the things he's famous for is he drives himself to work even when he's the richest man alive. And he's covered his car in bumper stickers, advertising lifeline and like his gastro magic pills like a crazy man. And he'll. He's trying because he's like, this will advertise it. People will buy it if they see it on my car.

[Princess Weekes]

Yeah.

[Brett Weinstein]

The nation notes sometimes he circles the block an extra time before parking to let Dallas pedestrians have one more look.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh, my God.

[Brett Weinstein]

And he's like making his employees put shit on their cars. He's like, no, you gotta help the business.

[Princess Weekes]

He's his own best buyer. He's acting like he isn't a rich guy.

[Brett Weinstein]

So funny. He's like hustling like a poor guy. It's so funny.

[Princess Weekes]

It's giving. I'm selling my mixtape out of my trunk. Like, what are you doing, babe?

[Brett Weinstein]

Right? He's acting like a broke dude who gets to do an mlm. It's really funny. And he's the richest man alive. I love it.

[Princess Weekes]

He would be a modern day like, hey, girly. Sending you a dm.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, he's a hun in the field.

[Princess Weekes]

Are you feeling a little gassy right now? Don't worry, guys. I got you.

[Brett Weinstein]

I got you.

[Princess Weekes]

I have this really great supplement you would only have to subscribe. Like, ugh. I know we haven't talked since high school, but literally.

[Brett Weinstein]

And he is, he is always, when he's meeting with people, weirdly, who always want his money, he'll just start going on these rants about his different products. One attorney who worked with him, he says that like, as soon as Hunt walks in the room, he runs up and shakes his hand and says very quickly, hello, I am H.L. hunt, the world's richest man. And these are gastro magic, which I make, so they must be good. Try some. It's just like crazy person stuff, dude.

[Princess Weekes]

Too many kids.

[Brett Weinstein]

One of Hunt's kind of downfall moments is that, as I noted, he doesn't like Kennedy. Right. Lifeline attacks him. He attacks him in his column Hunt for the Truth. And he's trying to drum up like religious hatred to attack him. Right. He's also supporting Barry Goldwater. He loves Barry Goldwater.

[Princess Weekes]

So strange, so unique.

[Brett Weinstein]

As you all know, on November 22, 1963, Bernard Montgomery Sanders shot President John Fitzgerald Kennedy in Dallas, Texas. Right. And this happens to happen like right after he'd run like a column and episodes of Lifeline talking about like the need of the Second Amendment so that like, people could kill government leaders who tried to oppress them. So he's just put this out and then Kennedy gets shot and the FBI questions him and members of his family. He's like, if you go into like, there's a lot of conspiracies that put Hunt at the center of like the conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

[Princess Weekes]

Cool.

[Brett Weinstein]

There's a couple of weird things in there. For one thing, the guy who kills Oswald Jack Ruby had Hunt's name in his address book.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh my gosh.

[Brett Weinstein]

Although Ruby doesn't seem to have liked Hunt because Ruby was a real far right crank and Hunt is like, like just in it for his own weird right wing beliefs. So I don't think, like Ruby doesn't actually like him very much because he's not a team player, basically. So there's a lot of allegations, but the family received so many death threats from these, in fact, that like the FBI gives them like a security detail at one point because people are so convinced he's involved. He gets weirder and crazier as he ages. His Dallas, I even mentioned this. His Dallas home, I think it's in White Rock Lake is a replica of George Washington's Mount Vernon estate that's five times as big. Like, that's his house.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh my God, bro. Daddy issues up the butt.

[Brett Weinstein]

The mother of all daddy issues. And he's got this fucking huge crazy rich man house with like a billboard that he puts on his front lawn for Lifeline. And he has this up in his fancy neighborhood until the neighbors complain, at which point he replaces it with a crude hand painted sign advertising Lifeline. Oh, that's the strangest vibes like he's a.

[Princess Weekes]

He's selling lemonade.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. Now, despite putting more money into right wing media than anyone, Hunt's influence falls rapidly in the late 60s from its peak in the mid-50s, partly because he refuses to work or cooperate with anyone and has no interest in being part of the conservative movement as such. He wants conservatives to agree with him because he tries to be a kingmaker, he fancies himself one. And he becomes a major backer of Barry Goldwater. And when Goldwater is just that, has the shit kicked out of him in 1964. One reason why, according to the media, cause there's a bunch of articles about like, why didn't Goldwater do better? And one reason that's posited by a lot of pundits is that HL Hunt kind of poisoned the campaign, right? Not just Hunt. Cause the John Birch Society is also behind Goldwater and people don't like them. But it gets to the point where, according to Heather Hendershot, quote, even the rumor of an association with Hunt could be damning for a candidate. Especially after Hunt was investigated in connection with the Kennedy assassination. And yeah, like it's, it's, you know, good stuff. His sons are kind of involved in his downfall as a political influencer too. His son Bunker Hunt had financed a John Birch Society newsletter that had attacked Kennedy in really vicious terms and was made a lot of people suspicious. And then one of Jack Ruby's friends, the reason why Ruby had Hunt's name, is that he had approached Lamar Hunt to try to get a job in a bowling alley that Hunt owned. So his his fail sons are part of why he stops becoming as influential. His attempts to co opt Christianity for his own ends are also way too clumsy to work very well. His daughter June, who later becomes like an influential Christian media figure, even attacks him for his hypocrisy and constant cheating. As the story goes, Hunt kind of snaps back at her. I'm not Christian. I don't have to go by Christian ethics. And then he sends her ass to boarding school. When his other daughter Swanee makes similar complaints about his womanizing, he tells her King Solomon had 700 wives, and that's in the Bible. Wow. So great guy, great parent, good job. As the 70s Dawn Hunt's in his 80s. He continues to wear the same blue suit every day, but he only dry cleans the pants to save money. So eventually the top and bottom are totally different colors. What? Such a freak.

[Princess Weekes]

He doesn't have to live like this. Literally.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, man, you don't have to.

[Princess Weekes]

Such an odd guy.

[Brett Weinstein]

So his son Hassie, who we talked about, never recovers from that mental break. He's ill. And Hunt spends. Hunt keeps his. He's the only of his children that Hunt has a picture of in his office, I think. Cause he feels really bad about this. And he spends a lot of his life desperately but incompetently trying to help Hassie to get better. The nation writes Hunt had sought various magic cures for the boy. One day, the answer was Valium. The next, prostitutes. Finally, a lobotomy took the edge off of Hassie's violent fist. But just a bit. So just a great dad.

[Princess Weekes]

Just so good.

[Brett Weinstein]

Great dad.

[Princess Weekes]

Triple threat.

[Brett Weinstein]

Triple threat father. He develops increasingly strange health beliefs as he aged and became an almost religious advocate of creeping. Sophie's gonna show you a picture of this because anytime anyone asked him, he would get down to demonstrate this exercise technique that he's fallen in love with. That's basically a crab walk. He gets down on his knees and his hands and knees and just like walks across the ground. He fucking. And there's like. There's like a weird kind of like yogurt component to it. Like he must have found this in some book or another. But he is obsessed with creeping. The New York Times quotes him as saying, creeping is probably the second best exercise in the world next to swimming. It's perfect. Okay.

[Princess Weekes]

All right. He's a creeper. He's a super creeper.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Princess Weekes]

Not surprising.

[Brett Weinstein]

He loves creeping. He lives in his last years with his second family in that Mount Vernon home or third family, I think, actually. And he spends a lot of time promoting health foods. He's got like a vegetable garden on his property. And he eats mainly these along with. He has like a very weird diet. He eats a lot of just like bullion cubes, I think, just like straight like flavor.

[Princess Weekes]

He's so weird.

[Brett Weinstein]

He's a freak. He's a weirdo. Cool guy. Now, as I noted, his sons, especially Nelson Bunker Hunt, are real anti strong, anti communist. Bunker is going to be a big George Wallace supporter and a fascist. Like, he's a real hardcore segregationist fascist giant piece of shit. Hunt also supports Governor Wallace's campaign, but he dies on November 29, 1974. At the time of his death, his estate is valued at at $2 billion, which is split between his two surviving ex wives, 15 children, and many grandchildren. There are years of probate battles.

[Princess Weekes]

Right, I'm sure.

[Brett Weinstein]

As a note about his shitty ass sons, you should know one of his sons, Lamar Hunt founds the afl, the American Football League, and he's a major figure in professional tennis and soccer in the US So that's where the AFL comes. And I want to quote from Henry Schott's article one last time. Herbert and Bunker Hunt had been caught attempting to corner the world's silver market. Could the crooks really have thought that no one would notice an ongoing attempt to purchase all the silver in the world? They were also entangled in a wiretapping caper. It's wiretapping over, like their dad's. Like, this is as a result of, like, the fight for over, like his will in probate. Wow. And yeah, Bunker is a hugely successful oil man. He becomes a major John Birch donor with his oil money. Classic. He helped, like, his company finds oil deposits in Libya and I think Pakistan. I think they're also involved in Saudi Arabia. Like, they are a lot of, like, Arab oil and Middle Eastern oil. Like, his company is involved in, like, getting the rights to and selling. He also gives a quarter of a million dollars in cash in a briefcase to George Wallace as a rainy day fund. And he tries to bribe Curtis LeMay to become Wallace's running mate. Or he puts up, like a trust fund to convince LeMay to become Wallace's running mate. So he just loves all of the worst fascists. Bunker Hunt, giant piece of shit.

[Princess Weekes]

Wow.

[Brett Weinstein]

So, yeah, that's the end of Hunt's life. One of his long, his, probably his biggest ongoing contributions to popular culture is that Bunker Hunt is such a giant, famous piece of shit for all of his criminal activity and weird business activity and oil money that his. He inspires the show. Dallas. Ooh, Dallas is based off of the Hunts. Yes. JR is based off of Bunker Hunt.

[Princess Weekes]

Oh, damn.

[Brett Weinstein]

Like heavily based off of Bunker Hunt. Right. In part because he gets in trouble for committing a bunch of crimes. Right. Yeah. So at least we get to show Dallas. You know, I'll take it.

[Princess Weekes]

Who shot Junior was very big for our parents.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, yeah. Bernie Sanders, by the way, did. A lot of people don't know that. Anyway, princess, how you feeling at the end of these episodes?

[Princess Weekes]

I feel great. There's nothing like knowing the origins of the war crimes that are being put out into the world every day.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, yeah, it's good. War crimes, crimes against truth, all this good stuff.

[Princess Weekes]

Thank you so much for all of that amazing effort. This was a great three parter to be a part of. Thank you.

[Brett Weinstein]

We're just happy to have you here, you know. Happy to have you here talking about this real piece of shit and his strange beliefs about the world and his

[Princess Weekes]

strange pills and his strange 15 children. Wow. Anything you want to plug at the end here, princess? Oh, yeah. Just if you want to see some other fun yappers, I have a YouTube channel where I talk about pop culture history, all kinds of fun things and just happy to be here. Thank you guys so much for having me.

[Brett Weinstein]

Excellent. Sweet. Thanks for coming along, everybody.

[Princess Weekes]

Yeah.

[Brett Weinstein]

All right, folks, we're done.

[Princess Weekes]

I'm gonna go pet dogs. Bye. Bye. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com behindthebastards we love about 40% of you, statistically speaking.

[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Who's the worst singer in the group?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

The worst?

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge don't.

[Brett Weinstein]

The Yardbirds. Right. That's the name.

[Robert Smigel]

The Harvard Yard. They're open.

[Brett Weinstein]

Do you have a name suggestion?

[Princess Weekes]

We're open.

[Robert Smigel]

Since you guys are middle aged, one erection. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Brett Weinstein]

Humor me. I need some jokes to make me smile. Seem funny.

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about in the news, Body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into the forensics. Listen to Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Body Bag with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening.

[Brett Weinstein]

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. I seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a pool of blood. Somebody somewhere knows something.

[Princess Weekes]

Jordan.

[Brett Weinstein]

I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 is out now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Princess Weekes]

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast A Slight Change of Plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans.

[Brett Weinstein]

I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

[Princess Weekes]

You can have opinions. You can have, like, a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to A Slight Change of plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.