Part Three: Jimmy Savile: Britain's Unending Nightmare

Summary

Behind the Bastards – Part Three: Jimmy Savile: Britain’s Unending Nightmare

Date: April 21, 2026
Host: Brett (Robert Evans)
Guest: Courtney Kosak
Podcast: Behind the Bastards (Cool Zone Media / iHeartPodcasts)

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Episode Overview

In this harrowing third installment of their multi-part series on Jimmy Savile, host Brett (Robert Evans) and guest Courtney Kosak continue to unpack the staggering extent of Savile's sexual abuse, his calculated rise to power, and the culture of complicity and silence that enabled his decades-long reign of terror in Britain. The episode focuses on the horrifying realities of Savile’s crimes against children and vulnerable adults, his relationships with the elite (including the Royal Family and Margaret Thatcher), and the systems that shielded him.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early 1960s: Evidence and Warnings Ignored

• The episode opens with an account of a 1964 police bust of a London flat being used to pimp out underage girls, many of whom escaped from the Duncroft Approved School.
• Jimmy Savile was a “repeat visitor” at this brothel, but faced no charges; the police merely noted his presence ([03:41]).
  • Quote (Brett, 05:47):
    “They don’t go after him or anything... They’re just like, oh, Jimmy Savile’s going to this brothel for children an awful lot.”

2. How Did He Get Away With It?

• Savile manipulated police and the powerful by framing his relationships with teenagers as “protective.”
• He openly joked about the number of underage girls around him—even boasting to police chiefs about protecting their daughters from other men ([05:49-06:46]).
  • Quote (Brett, 06:46):
    “He tells the journalist this... he’s just like, yeah, you know, people get angry at me for all the underage girls I hang out around, but some of them are the children of cops.”

3. Insider Knowledge and Open Secrets

• Former industry insiders and colleagues described Savile’s behavior as known but dismissed as merely “odd,” not out of step with the music industry’s culture.
  • Quote (Roger Holt via Brett, 07:55):
    “Jimmy’s at it again. That’s how people would talk about him molesting teenagers… what made Jimmy weird is that he exclusively goes for girls that age and younger…” ([08:00])
• Savile avoided deep social bonds with other DJs, perhaps out of strategic caution.

4. Elite Connections: Royalty & Organized Abuse Networks

• Savile’s social circle included Lord Louis Mountbatten, who introduced him to the Royal Family (including Prince Charles and Prince Andrew).
  • Quote (Brett, 11:14):
    “We know that one of his close friends as early as 1966 was a member of the British Royal Family… the person who introduces Jimmy to the British royal family, Lord Louis Mountbatten.”
  • Mountbatten was himself rumored (and by the FBI, investigated) to be a pedophile ([13:04-13:30]).
• Savile participated in elite networks of child sexual abuse, as detailed in chilling testimony from his nephew, Guy Marsden. Marsden described parties attended by rich men, Savile, and children as young as six; some older teens acted as intermediaries to normalize abuse for younger victims ([15:30-21:49]).
  • Quote (Marsden via Brett, 18:55):
    “Most of the kids who were taken into rooms to be abused by adults were 6 to 10 years old. The older teens aren’t being as often molested… their purpose is to be there to normalize the situation for the kids who are the real targets.”
  • Courtney (19:13):
    “Wait, so that was my job on the Girls Gone Wild tour was just to be the girl so the other girls felt comfortable on the bus, sadly.”
• Savile was not the organizer, but a participant in organized networks of elite abuse ([22:28]).

5. BBC: Facilitator and Protector

• Despite rumors and complaints, the BBC empowered Savile, launching new shows and letting him exploit its resources to facilitate his crimes.
  • Quote (Brett, 23:19):
    “The BBC doesn’t give a fuck. He utilizes the resources of the BBC to aid him in abusing people. That’s a major part of this story.”
• Savile’s TV and radio shows provided further, easy access to vulnerable children ([23:58-24:16]).

6. Charitable Persona as Camouflage

• Savile’s high-profile charity work, including marathon walks and money raised for hospitals, further deflected scrutiny ([26:16+]).
  • He openly demanded access to underage girls as a condition for event participation:
    • Quote (Brett, 26:54):
      “Find me a blonde teenage bird who lives in a house with a drive so I can park outside so she can wake me up in the morning with tea at 8 o'clock. The organizer agreed. This is just in the press.”
• The press and public excused or outright ignored allegations due to his “good works” ([36:14]).

7. Obscene Popularity: “National Uncle”

• Savile ascended to national fame, hosting major TV shows like “Jim’ll Fix It” (1975–1994), where he made children’s “dreams come true”—and further groomed victims ([41:58-44:00]).
  • Courtney (54:58):
    “He’s kind of like Regis Philbin or something.”
  • Brett points out UK’s narrower channel selection made Savile’s omnipresence even more powerful.

8. Bald-Faced Hints and Jokes About Abuse

• Savile repeatedly joked, on-air, about having relationships with underage girls or upcoming court dates for such behavior. These “jokes” normalized and obscured his abuse ([46:44-49:44]):
  • Example (Jim’ll Fix It Clip, 46:44):
    “Give both these young ladies their Jim’ll Fix It badges. How old are you? — 12. Hello Judge.”
  • Brett notes, “...he’s just making a joke about molesting a 12-year-old and getting in trouble in court...” ([47:10])

9. Societal and Institutional Complicity

• Journalists, hospital staff, politicians, and industry insiders knew or suspected, but kept quiet—often cowed by Savile’s connections, threat of libel lawsuits, or the pressure of losing charity funding ([64:55], [74:55]).
• The public image of Savile as a benevolent oddball continually outweighed horrifying rumors.

10. Political Power: Thatcher and the Monarchy

• Savile became close with Margaret Thatcher, who viewed his charity fundraising as a way to plug growing holes in the NHS budget during her austerity regime ([57:11+]).
  • Quote (Brett, 58:57):
    “If you walk into the hospital and say, well, my taxes pay for this hospital, people are gonna be like, fuck you. But if you walk in and say, ‘You guys were gonna have to close down and I raised $10 million to keep you in business,’ they’re gonna let you do whatever you want.”
  • Thatcher persistently lobbied for Savile’s knighthood, even as other civil servants warned he might bring the system into disrepute ([71:40-73:02]).
• Savile leveraged his friendship with Thatcher and the royal family to intimidate victims and hospital staff, suggesting he could have employees fired and was above the law ([75:28-77:05]).

11. Abuse of the Most Vulnerable

• Savile’s so-called “volunteering” at hospitals, especially wards for spinal injury and psychiatric patients, gave him unfettered access to patients who were literally unable to escape or fight back ([55:49–57:11]).
  • Courtney (56:48):
    “It’s hard for them to get away. They have spinal injuries.”
• Internal investigations after his death found hundreds of victims across institutions.

12. Necrophilia and Extent of Depravity

• Savile’s abuses included necrophilia in hospital mortuaries, making macabre jokes about rings made from glass eyes of corpses ([77:05-78:22]). Even among his staggering offenses, this was a chilling aside.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On how Savile collaborated with the elite:
  • “Savile was not just a guy who abused a lot of kids at scale, but was part of an, or several, organized networks of child abuse and exploitation.” (Brett, 16:10)
• On institutional complicity:
  • “The BBC... utilizes the resources of the BBC to aid him in abusing people. That’s a major part of this story.” (Brett, 23:19)
• On the role of charity:
  • “People leap about. Yes, they do. If he wants something because of his charitable work, right? Folks will do anything for me because of all the money I’m raising for good causes.” (Savile, via Brett, 74:55)
• On Thatcher and Savile's partnership:
  • “She is a major... He’s a major part of Thatcherism... He allows her to do a lot of the austerity shit she wants to do without seeming like she’s fucking the country as much as she is, because he’s keeping the lights on in some of these facilities.” (Brett, 73:23)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:41–06:46 – Early investigation, Duncroft School, and how police looked the other way
• 11:14–15:30 – Lord Mountbatten, introduction to Royal Family, shared criminal predilections
• 15:30–22:01 – Elite abuse networks, testimony from Guy Marsden
• 23:17–26:16 – The BBC, radio/TV career, and complicity
• 26:16–36:14 – Charity fundraising as a smokescreen; demands for access to girls
• 41:58–50:20 – “Jim’ll Fix It”, jokes about pedophilia in plain sight
• 55:47–57:11 – Savile’s predatory volunteering in hospitals, impact of austerity
• 57:11–69:54 – Friendship and quid pro quo with Thatcher, further expansion of influence
• 77:05–78:22 – Savile’s necrophilia and grim “glass eye” ring stories
• 79:30– End – Reflections, emotional impact, and note on the incalculable scale of the abuse

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Tone & Emotional Impact

• Courtney Kosak (79:30):
  “Oh my gosh, I hate this guy.”
• Brett (79:39):
  “Yeah, this is one of the worst ones as we’ve ever done. This guy is… the devil himself.”
• The hosts are consistently horrified, angry, and incredulous at the scale and openness of Savile’s crimes, and the cowardice or complicity of those around him.
• Courtney repeatedly asks for moments to recover emotionally; Brett describes crying during the research.

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Conclusion

This episode is an unflinching, deeply disturbing account of Jimmy Savile’s predations and the social, political, and institutional networks that empowered him. The hosts dissect how charity, stardom, class, and the culture of silence created a perfect storm for unchecked abuse—and how Savile’s very public persona, coupled with persistent rumors, allowed him to hide “in plain sight.” As the episode ends, both hosts declare Savile “loathsome” and reflect on the incalculable damage he caused ([80:36–80:47]).

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For Listeners New to the Series

This summary presents the essential facts, major themes, and most memorable details discussed in the episode. It omits the extended ad breaks and intro/outro chatter, focusing on the content and the judges’ raw, emotional analysis of one of the 20th century’s most monstrous public figures.

Transcript

[Robert]

Call Zone Media.

[Brett]

Welcome back to behind the Bastards, a podcast about the very worst people in all of history. We are starting our second week, parts three and four on one of the bastardest bastards we'll ever do on this show, Jimmy Savile, British broadcaster and pedophile extraordinaire. And to talk with me about the latter and worst parts of Jimmy's life and career as a fucking monster. And the great Courtney Kosak. Welcome back, Courtney.

[Courtney Kosak]

Yay. Thank you so much for having me.

[Brett]

Yeah, thanks for being on. And you've got a book. A book that we talked about in the first two parts but are going to plug again.

[Courtney Kosak]

Dear God, if you guys haven't already bought my book, please do. It is called Girl Gone Wild. It is about trying to make it in Hollywood. It's an unwitting feminist coming of age and it's the perfect antidote to what you're about to hear right now.

[Brett]

Beautiful. This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Brett]

Well, I guess we can't delay it anymore. So last episode we kind of ended by talking about one of the girls that Jimmy impregnated. This one was 16. There's a number. I came across at least two stories in the I mean at least two direct stories and insinuations of a lot more. I don't think we'll ever have an idea of how many girls he impregnated. I'm going to guess often generally they had stories like the lady we talked about where they get an illegal abortion, they have health consequences afterwards. Like that's a. I think probably how a lot of these went. I'm going to guess Jimmy paid for a good number of those over the years. But the same year that happened, which was 1964, the London Metropolitan Police received a report about a flat in London that was being used to pimp out children. Little girls who had not little girls. I think they were mostly like in their teens, but girls who were in many cases underage who had escaped from a nearby facility for I wrote for a facility for female juvenile offenders. That's not entirely accurate. It was called the Duncroft Approved School and we'll talk about it more later. But it's some of these girls got in legal trouble, you know, committing some sort of crimes while underage. Some of them are just have behavioral problems. This place seems to be a mix of like a juvenile reform school and a place kind of one of those like troubled teen camps that parents send their kids to if they're not obeying enough. Right. And so some of these girls are escaping from the Duncroft school and they're winding up at this flat where they're being pimped out as child prostitutes. And the London Met bust this place in 1964. And in their notes at the time, there's like, detectives write that Jimmy Savile was a repeat victim to the home while it was operational as a pedophile brothel. Right. They don't go after him or anything. He doesn't get charged with anything. They're just like, oh, Jimmy Savile's going to this brothel for children an awful lot.

[Courtney Kosak]

This is a famous teenage brothel. Wow.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah. This brothel for teenage girls who have gotten in trouble with the law. Interesting. Not worth looking into further. So that does, though, beg the question, how did he get away with this? And Davies gives us a good idea of how in his. His book In Plain Sight when he describes an interview where Jimmy discussed one time that he nearly got arrested because. And Jimmy's telling this to a reporter as like, for laughs, basically. And he talks about this story where, like, well, there's always these. A lot of underage girls hanging out around my office. And I got in trouble at some point. Like someone called the police about it because they thought it was suspicious. And so I had to sit down for an interview with the police chief and I told him, you know that your 16 year old daughter comes in here, don't you? Would you rather she was safe with me or being preyed on by all those scumbags and slacks?

[Robert]

What?

[Brett]

Oh, my. He tells the journalist this and I think like the 70s and the 80s, he's just like, yeah, you know, people get angry at me for all the underage girls I hang out around, but some of them are the children of cops.

[Courtney Kosak]

You know, I'm just here to protect them.

[Brett]

I'm here to keep them safe. They get into trouble if they weren't around. Jimmy Savile.

[Courtney Kosak]

Oh, my God.

[Brett]

Good times. So Roger Holt. Roger, yeah, not good times. Roger Holt was a record industry ad man in like the 60s and 70s. He's a guy like, basically helping to. There's a lot of payola going on in this period of time in the record industry. So his job is basically to bribe big DJs into playing specific records or specific songs. Right. And there's a number of ways that they would do this. Sometimes you're just, you know, giving them gifts or hooking them up with, you know, concert tickets they can give out on the air. Sometimes it's more direct. We're bribing people, as we've talked about some of these DJs are getting bribed in girls. Right? Not that I'm saying Holt did that. I don't know what Holt did specifically, but he's a record industry ad man during this period of time and he visited Saffle's Radio 1 office regularly throughout the 60s. He would later tell Davies that the DJs love for young girls was an open secret quote I heard through his office, just in conversation. Jimmy's at it again. That's how people would talk about him molesting teenagers. This did not strike anyone. It struck people as a bit odd. They're talking about it obviously. Right. I don't think it was odd for DJs to. I mean, it certainly wasn't uncommon for DJs to be in like close quarters with 16 and 17 year old girls, which again was legal at the time. But it's notable that Jimmy is exclusively going for girls that age and younger as opposed to that just being a. Which I'm not saying it's okay when it was the thing that happens sometimes for guys, but people at the time are like, wow, Jimmy really prefers them really young, often illegally.

[Courtney Kosak]

So yes, didn't just slip through the cracks.

[Brett]

Right, Right. So yeah, what's important is you understand that Jimmy's love of young girls was seen as noteworthy and talked about, but was far from an aberration within his professional circles and certainly wasn't seen as like a reason to discipline him or look into it any further. What made Jimmy weird and the thing people note about him at the time is that he doesn't. He's not into the social side of the music business. Most people who are like DJs or record engineers are like hanging out with other people in the business. Right. They like the culture around it and they're interested in like the creative aspect of it too. Like they like making music and they like, they're interested in how music gets made. Jimmy's not interested in any of that and he's not interested in like socializing with his colleagues. In fact, he has almost no relationship with other DJs, which is seen as kind of weird. As Mr. Holt told an interviewer, he was just a very strange person. You couldn't really have a conversation with him. I used to see him at Top of the Pops and I didn't talk to him unless I had to go to his dressing room. When I had to go to his dressing room the last time I was there, there weren't any young girls in there, but there were a lot of his mates that I thought were as weird as he was. There was definitely a clique in that dressing room. Now he's just saying the last time he visited, it wasn't a bunch of girls, it was his friends.

[Courtney Kosak]

His weird pops.

[Brett]

Weird friends. What kind of clique do you think Jimmy Savile's hanging out with if it's not other DJs? Right?

[Robert]

I mean, the word is clique, first of all. Second of all, you can say it's

[Brett]

a clique, but thank you. My interpretation of the evidence I have is that Jimmy's issue, one of Jimmy's issues with his fellow DJ. He has a couple issues with his fellow DJs. One is they're really reckless. Like, they're not careful at all about the payola stuff. They're not like, you know, remember that speech he gave about being clever versus being tricky? I think he would say they were clever, and he's tricky. And he didn't want to hang out with the clever guys because he knew the clever guys were gonna get busted being clever, whereas he doesn't want to get busted, so he's gonna stay tricky. Now, the other side of that, what I think is also accurate and probably more worth mentioning, is that Most of those DJs are having sex with teenagers, kind of. You know, it's not the whole point. It's like a. It's a side part of what they're doing and their lives.

[Robert]

They're not sexually assaulting children.

[Brett]

Yeah, well, they are sometimes, but it's not their primary motivating factor. Jimmy's primary motivating factor is being able to sexually assault children.

[Robert]

So who the fuck is in his clique?

[Brett]

Great question. We know that one of his close friends, as early as 1966, was a member of the British royal family. And in fact, the person who introduces Jimmy to the British royal family, Lord Louis Mountbatten. Wait, wait,

[Robert]

the Lord Matt? Like, father figure to Prince Philip? Father figure to King Charles? Like Earl of Burma?

[Courtney Kosak]

Yeah, that's his name. That's his real name.

[Brett]

Oh, yeah. The Lord Mountbatten. Yes, that was his name. Was. We'll talk about that in a second.

[Robert]

Fuck.

[Brett]

So, Mountbatten.

[Robert]

Whoa.

[Brett]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Were they in, like.

[Robert]

Introduces Jimmy to the family lunch clubs together and shit. What's the vibe?

[Brett]

We'll talk about what they might have been doing together, because these are the royals. You know, we don't have perfect information about what was going on behind the scenes. Sure. But Mountbatten introduces him to people like Prince Andrew, who's been in the News lately. And of course, Prince Charles. And we'll discuss all that later. But let's talk about Lord Mountbatten for a moment.

[Robert]

Right, yes.

[Brett]

So he dies in 1979 again. He and Jimmy meet in 1979.

[Robert]

Do you know who this guy is? Do you know how he dies and shit? Like.

[Brett]

Oh, yeah. Yes. He gets blown up by the IRA on a boat in 1979. Because Lord Mountbatten was.

[Robert]

Died also on that boat. Robert.

[Brett]

That part maybe not. Nailed it perfectly.

[Courtney Kosak]

Not great.

[Brett]

But you did note that there were children on the boat, Sophie. Lord Mountbatten was rumored to be a pedophile on a massive scale. Yeah, yeah. Which is not ideal. So, yeah, you were saying something, Courtney.

[Courtney Kosak]

So this is Philip's dad.

[Robert]

No father figure.

[Brett]

No, no, no father figure.

[Robert]

Not direct, but. Not direct. But he does take the Mountbatten name.

[Brett]

Philip.

[Courtney Kosak]

Yes, he does.

[Robert]

Right.

[Brett]

Yeah. I'm not an expert on the royals, but it's Mountbatten who introduces Jimmy to the family. And Mountbatten is rumored by the FBI before his death to be a pedophile. And a. Like, a major pedophile. The website Irish Central quotes from an interview with Anthony Daly, who worked as a rent boy for London's upper crust in the 70s. That means he was a young male prostitute for, like, rich guys in London in the 70s.

[Courtney Kosak]

Okay.

[Brett]

And he recalled, quote, mountbatten had something of a fetish for uniforms. Handsome young men in military uniforms with high boots and beautiful boys in school uniform. Great stuff. Now, I don't know that Mountbatten and Jimmy Savile hit it off because they love molesting boys together. I don't have evidence of that, but we know Savile loved to molest boys as well as girls. Very. Getting down to very young boys. These stories did not come out as early as the reports of Savile abusing and having sex with teenaged girls. Right. But they do come out later in life, and we have quite a bit of evidence of this. And one of these accounts, which comes from the book In Plain Sight, is particularly horrifying because it comes from Guy Marsden, who was Jimmy Savile's nephew. He was one of Savile's older sister sons. And he runs away as a teenage boy after repeated trouble with the law. He's just one of these kids who gets in trouble. And he and, like, three of his friends hitchhiked to London. I'm guessing they lived around Leeds or something, just based on where the family comes from. And they spent their first days bumming around Euston Station, which they didn't know at that point in time, was a common pickup point for men seeking other men or sometimes boys. After several hours waiting around, one man offered to put Marsden and his friends up at a flat nearby. They came over and these guys are, you know, chilling at this flat. You have to assume paying with their bodies, you know, for privilege somewhat, but that's what's going on. And after a couple of days of this, Jimmy Savile shows up. Now, guy is terrified at first because he assumes his uncle has been sent there to bring him home and probably knock him around a bit, right. Like he thinks he's in trouble. And instead Jimmy's like, surprised to see them and is basically like, hey, why don't you guys come with me? And I'm gonna quote now from In Plain Sight. Marsden claimed that Uncle Jimmy moved the runaways into a house. Over the ensuing weeks, he also took the boys to a number of parties. There were no women at these soirees, only men and children. Marsden maintained that he realized immediately what sort of parties they were. One of the houses he described as being particularly memorable. The big feature of it were when you went in the swimming pool, he explained. It were a room with a big swimming pool and it were so inviting. Everybody used it and were diving into it. It had in it, it was lit up. It was unbelievable. All you wanted to do was stay there forever. Marsden said he believes the house belonged to a famous pop impresario at the time. Don't know who that is. Might have a couple theories. So what this is is some of the better evidence that I found so far to suggest that Jimmy Savile was not just a guy who abused a lot of kids at scale, but was part of an. Or several organized networks of child abuse and exploitation.

[Robert]

He's sex trafficking children.

[Brett]

Yeah, he's. And he's part of, like a club of guys who are doing that.

[Robert]

And because these kids sexually assaulting and sex trafficking children in a coward, organized way is what you're saying.

[Brett]

Yes, yes. And that is what this account suggests. And there's some other things that suggest this too. But yeah, this is not a thing where, like, we have perfect. This has not been explored, for example, to the extent that, like, the Epstein networks have been in part because this stuff doesn't really start coming out until so much later. But what Marsden alleges is that these kids, some of these kids, are being molested by the rich and famous men who attend the parties. Not actually like most of them necessarily, which is an interesting point, and I'm going to explain that in a bit. But Marsden claims that, quote, from time to time they, the boys were led into rooms with adult males. Noises could be heard coming from inside. None of these kids were stressed. It was as though they were really, really enjoying what they were doing. That's the sad part really, and that's not as strange as it sounds. These are all very poor kids. Many of them have been kicked out of their homes for being queer. These kids are living on the street, they are eating basically by prostituting themselves and have probably, in general probably have been abused and raped and molested quite a few times. And this is still more of that. But the difference is now these boys are getting paid. They're spending all of their time, they're living when they're not participating in these parties at these various like mansions and palaces. So they're getting to live. These kids who have been on the street are getting to live that 1 percenter lifestyle at the price of being repeatedly raped. That's what's happening here. And it says a lot about the desperation of their lives that a lot of these kids at the time are like, okay, this is a worthwhile trade in for me. Right? Yeah. Now, after some time at any one location, they would be put in a car and taken to a new location. Some parties would go on for days and would involve multiple different venues. Now, per Marsden's account, a lot of, if not most of the boys aren't being molested, and that's for a reason. The kids who attend these parties range in ages up to their late teens, so anywhere from 6 to 10 years old. And Marsden says most of the kids who were taken into rooms to be abused by Adults were 6 to 10 years old. Right. The older teens aren't being as often molested, according to Marsden's account. And he says he was never abused himself. Maybe he's lying about that, but he provides a pretty decent explanation as to why that would be. As he posited, quote, someone must have had an idea that we would be a good intermediary for these kids. It might have stressed them if they were only adult men. So you've got the older teens there, so the younger boys don't think this is weird and don't get as scared. And so they can kind of be like, just go do it, it'll be fine. You know, because the older teen boys are getting something out of this too. That's kind of what's happening here.

[Courtney Kosak]

Wait, so that was my job on the Girls Gone Wild tour was just to be the girl. So the other girls felt comfortable on the bus, sadly.

[Robert]

Wait, Robert, so you're saying, so what are the ages of these boys? Their ages? Anywhere from what to what?

[Brett]

The kids being molested, he says, are generally 6 to 10. Marsden, I think, was more like 15 or 16. And the older teen boys are anywhere from like, you know, 11 or 12 to like, you know, 16, 17 years old, probably would be 17, would be probably the oldest.

[Robert]

So all of these boys are being sexually abused, Even if they aren't aware that they're being sexually abused because they're being taken advantage of by adults, they're all being abused.

[Brett]

They're not all being physically sexually abused, according to Marsden. Oh, the older boys are there. Like, there's like, it's abusive to put a 16 year old in a situation where they're like encouraging an 8 year old to go get molested in order to have a roof over their head. That's a fundamentally abusive thing. But they're not necessarily being physically molested because their purpose is to be there to normalize the situation for the kids who are the real targets. Right. That's what Marsden describes. And that makes sense to me. I mean, like, as you said, Courtney, there's. Yeah, like it's. I don't doubt this account.

[Robert]

Understood.

[Brett]

Makes sense. So again, his account is not that Savile is like the organizer or the main guy behind it. He's just a member of this network of very elite pedophiles. Right? These guys are very wealthy. They have massive properties. They're probably often doing this, like miles away from civilization. A lot of this is happening on these big English estates where you're kind of a law into yourself. You know, you're not gonna go run to the cops out there. You're in the middle of pasture land and shit, right? There's like forests and stuff. Some of these properties have thousands of acres to them. So. And we see in this and the way this is set up an echo of how Savile abused the young. Like the teenage girls who were like fans of pop music who came to him. Most of the girls who showed up outside of his office or went to shows and hung out with him before and after shows are not being molested by him. He doesn't quote, unquote, pick most of them. And that fact helps to hide what's going on and make it seem believable that this is normal and acceptable. Because most of the girls you talk to be like, oh, yeah, Jimmy's A little weird, but it's fine because they're not all the target. Right. Does that all make sense in terms of like how he's structuring this abuse?

[Courtney Kosak]

Unfortunately, Very sophisticated pedophilia. Yeah.

[Brett]

To get away with it as long as he was, you have to be good at it. You know, he's also lucky. He benefits from for a lot of reasons, but like he's set this up for this way for a reason. Because it works.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Brett]

So Marsden says he never saw his uncle abuse any boys at these parties. I don't know, maybe he didn't. Maybe he was primarily at the parties to get access or to get favors for other things. Maybe he's just not into it in that venue. We know he abused young boys. I think the youngest I've heard of was five. So we know he abused young boys, but he may not have done it at these particular parties for some reason. Maybe this is just something he saw as useful to like, facilitate the moving of his career. Right. So again, we know he bonds with Lord Mountbatten in 66. We know in 66 he's doing stuff like this. We know Lord Mountbatten's probably doing stuff like this. My guess is that this is how they become friends. Right. And we do know there's also versions of these parties that are being held with teenaged girls and a different set of rich and famous famous creeps. Right. Where there's no boys, but there's rich and famous men and then there's like 14 to 17 year old girls. Right. We also know that version and probably younger. We know that version. There's parties like that going on too.

[Robert]

I see.

[Brett]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, none of this weirdness, none of the fact that's going on is enough to get the BBC to shy away from Jimmy. You know, there's rumors around him. People talk about him liking him young. He makes some comments about that.

[Robert]

What the fuck is wrong with the BBC?

[Brett]

Doesn't give a shit. Oh, they don't give a fuck. Fuck about any of this. He is. In fact, they're going to be a major engine of abuse for Jimmy Savile. The BBC doesn't isn't just. He's not just a BBC employee who abuses people. He utilizes the resources of the BBC to aid him in abusing people. That's a major part of this story. At the start of the 1970s, they give him a Radio 1 show, Savile's Travels, which also turns into a BBC TV show. I think it's called Savill's Yorkshire Travels. I think there's a couple I don't understand. The BBC's weird. A lot of these shows aren't really archived in full anymore. So I. But he does both. It's a radio show that comes like a tv.

[Robert]

The other watch this really odd guy go to places.

[Brett]

He lives in a caravan which is like an RV or trailer basically and he's traveling around the country talking to people. You know, it's like his Anthony Bourdain type deal. Right. That's what people are getting out of it.

[Robert]

I don't like that person.

[Brett]

Yeah, it's not great. I'm not in that. But like that's the kind of the appeal is he's like this regular guy who's showing you the regular guy's view of these different places in Yorkshire or wherever. So that starts in like the. At the beginning of the seventies. Now by the start of that decade, Savile had already established a strong reputation as a charitable fundraiser. As we've said, anytime he's doing events, he's often having his salary donated to charity. He starts raising money. There's this thing people are doing sometimes where you'll push someone in a wheelchair for a distance and people will pay. It's like these different kind of run for cancer type charities. He's doing some stuff like that. In 1971 he participates in his most ambitious charity drive yet, an 876 mile walk. And he does this with his Savills Travels motor pool traveling behind him. So he's sleeping in the caravan at night and he's walking all day and people are joining him at varying points on the march. This is a 31 day event and he's never really alone during this. He's constantly being followed by people. Sometimes like people who are in wheelchairs show up and he'll push them for a while. Hundreds of folks march alongside them. Jimmy wrote in his column the next week. I've wheeled cripples along in wheelchairs who didn't want to be left out. I pushed prams with assorted babies in. I've slowed down to a shuffle with a 90 year old lady gripping my arm and sped up fleet footed downhill with an entire youth club tailing behind like Halley's comet. And this actually ends with one of his first direct things with the British Royal Marines, which we're not going to talk about enough in these episodes. But the Royal Marines like show up to march with him. At the end of his march he does a lot of events with them. He becomes an honorary member of the Royal. He loves the Royal Marines. That's a proud, proud part of the history of the Royal Marines. Jimmy Stapple. Got to be a member of the great stuff.

[Courtney Kosak]

Well, speaks well of the organization.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah. He does a lot of long. He does a lot of marathons. He does a lot of marches for charity, does a lot of wheelchair pushes. All of these to raise money for good causes. Savile continued to make outrageous demands when he would agree to participate in these events, as he had earlier in his career. During a fundraiser where he pushed a patient in a wheelchair from Rochester to Bromley. Savile admitted to press that he'd given this demand to the event organizer. Find me a blonde teenage bird who lives in a house with a drive so I can park outside so she can wake me up in the morning with tea at 8 o'. Clock. The organizer agreed. This is just in the press.

[Courtney Kosak]

God.

[Brett]

Oh, Jimmy. He loves those blonde teenage birds, you know, but he's doing good. He's raising so much money for good causes, you know, why be angry at him for being just a little bit odd, right? He couldn't possibly be hurting anybody. You know who else? Oh, sorry.

[Robert]

Cause he's a. That defile.

[Courtney Kosak]

Sorry.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert]

I ruined that transition.

[Brett]

You know, who's not a. That's not a good ad pivot anyway? Let's forget I tried to do that. Here's some ads.

[Robert]

I am

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[Brett]

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[Brett]

We're back. So after committing or committing, completing his nearly 900 mile march, Savile was awarded the Order of the British Empire, or obe, which is just a step under knighthood. Now this entitled him to sign his name Jimmy Savile obe, which he does on his subsequent autobiography that comes out not long after this. In interviews at the time, he is vocally thrilled by the recognition which elevated him to a level of social respectability other DJs simply lacked. Here's a photo of him after his investiture at Buckingham Palace. There's Jimmy Savile obe. He's got like a normal suit on for once in his fucking life. And he's got this big medal they give you when you get the obe. He's smoking one of his cigars. He's got a fucking pinky ring on and a top hat and his fucking peroxide white hair.

[Courtney Kosak]

Just that hair.

[Brett]

Like a man who's got no business around teenagers.

[Robert]

Making the pinky ring look bad and shit. Like it's fucked up.

[Brett]

Oh yeah, I love, because I love a pinky part of pinky ring history. Pinky ring history and Royal Marine Corps history. Both. Both low points of both.

[Robert]

Gross.

[Brett]

So Savile's Yorkshire travels, his, like, TV show version of this radio thing hits the air in 1972, just before that happened. Per the book, In Plain Sight, the body of 15 year old Claire McAlpin was discovered by her mother surrounded by empty pill bottles and a red diary. In her diary, she had obviously committed suicide. And in her diary, she repeatedly mentioned the sex that she had had with top BBC disc jockeys that she had met while dancing for Top of the Pops. And again, she's 15. This is underage, this is statutory rape. That's what she's writing about. Multiple disc jockeys at Top of the pops, at the BBC's hit show top of the Pops, rape this girl. Savile is believed to be one of them. Like, we know he was one of them, right? But he mostly stays out of the fallout around this story because by this point he's expanded beyond just being a DJ. So the actual, like, scandal around Claire McAlpin's suicide and around all of this, and it's not just her, there's a couple of other girls that they find out were being trafficked basically to BBC disc jockeys as part of, like a payola scam. And that's the primary thing that blows up into a scandal is that a lot of these, like, DJs who had, like, get brought in from the pirate world are accepting fucking sex with teenage girls as a form of payola for playing songs. Right? That's primarily the big scandal that happens here. And that's obviously not what people should have been most angry about. It's not the only thing that they're angry about. Some of these guys get in trouble, but not Jimmy, right? He's never a focus of these investigations because by the time this all blows up, he's kind of moved on, right? Like he's, he's still doing Top of the Pops from time to time, he's still a dj, but he's like increasingly starting to be like a TV and radio star for other reasons. And so he's just not at the center of this stuff. But a good friend of his was.

[Courtney Kosak]

He was like the one of the main Top of the Pops guys, wasn't he?

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah, but he's not socially a part of that circle. So most of the accounts they're getting and most of what blows up is involving other guys and Savile, we just kind of know he was involved, but he's not like at the center of this. And he May not have actually taken Paola. He may have just been molesting teenage girls. Like, we know he was doing a lot. He may not have actually taken. We don't know, like, but he doesn't get in trouble for this, whereas other guys do. And one of these other guys is a member of his clique, Harry Goodwin, who was a photographer for Top of the Pops. Undercover journalists recorded Goodwin bragging about taking pornographic photos of. I mean, and these are. I think most of these are. See, Sam. Right. I guess it depends on the age of consent. But he's making child pornography with pictures of underaged girls, I assume some, not all underage, but most of them probably are. And he's also making movies, you know, quote unquote, movies of the statutory rape occurring. So he's disgusting and he's playing these. He's selling these movies to pop stars, not only major figures in the industry.

[Robert]

Despicably gross and good friend. Is he dead?

[Brett]

Yeah, he must be by now.

[Courtney Kosak]

That's great.

[Brett]

Like, yeah. And he gets in some trouble for this. So, you know, again, close friend of Jimmy's here making child pornography or child sex abuse content of varying sorts of. So a few people's careers end over this, but again, not Jimmy's, because he's moved on. Savile's travels keeps him on the road and makes his fame much broader than just pop music at a time when he desperately needed that. Of course, this doesn't stop him from committing sex crimes. There were almost immediately complaints along his route of travel that Savile, now well into his 30s, was molesting kids. Radio 1 controller Douglas Mugridge asked the station press officer, Rodney Collins, to make sure to check and see if any local newspapers in areas Savile had gone through planned to print any rumors about his behavior. As Mr. Collins later told the BBC, there were allegations that there were girls, underage girls involved, maybe in the caravan. However, the newspapers that Mr. Collins talked to insisted they were unwilling to print allegations against Savile, whether they were true or not, because of all of his charity work and because he was, quote, perceived as a very popular man. So this guy's for the BBC, looking into, like, hey, are you going to print any rumors to see if we need to, like, bribe these guys or threaten them to stop it. And the papers are like, we weren't gonna publish it, even if it is true that he's molesting girls, you know, because of all of his charity work.

[Courtney Kosak]

He's a good guy and he's doing

[Brett]

so much good stuff. You know? Yeah. Is it so bad that he's molesting children while he does this charity work? Right.

[Robert]

Yes, it is.

[Brett]

Someone's gotta raise money for charity, you know, why not let it be a pedophile? A lot of reasons.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Brett]

So again, he's like, part of what he's doing on camera for these shows is he's like visiting mom and pop restaurants and cafes and clubs. He's talking to regular people in a way that no besuited, highly educated, traditional reporter could have done. And there's a number of reasons why Jimmy is so popular. One is that again, there had been like a BBC voice. There had been like a voice that radio announcers, when they start doing television, TV announcers are supposed to sort of have to kind of be proper and to do the job the right way. And this is a very like. This is a system that is primarily set up for people with specific educations from specific institutions, and they talk in specific ways. And Jimmy's a former coal miner from the north. Voices the accent of the northern part of the country is seen as more authentic in the uk, kind of in the same way as like a southern twang. It's seen as both evidence that you might be a redneck and that you're an honest salt of the earth, real American. Like, he's got an accent that works for him in that way that makes him seem like a trustworthy working class dude. And people are just kind of starved for that in Great Britain at this time. There's not a lot of it in their popular media. And this is part of why he's so rabidly popular is a lot of folks in the poorer northern parts of the country see themselves represented in Jimmy. And the fact that he kind of dresses like a weirdo is like, yeah, but he's our weirdo. You know, like, why. Why should he have to wear a monkey suit like all these fancy guys? That's kind of. And it helps to camouflage him. You know, the popularity is part of the camouflage.

[Courtney Kosak]

He's got like five different covers. He's a genius.

[Brett]

He's good at it. Unfortunately, most of the initial run of Savile's travels took place in Yorkshire. And a BBC article. In May of 2013, less than a year after Savile's crimes were made public, West Yorkshire police noted that they had recorded evidence of at least 79 offenses by Savile against 71 separate people. Quote, per the PBC, 35 attacks by the broadcaster in hospitals involved complainants ranging from aged five to 45. The West Yorkshire Police figure shows Savile's targeted 18 victims at private addresses in Leeds and Bradford. Now again, a year after he dies and these stories come out, within the first year, West Yorkshire Police have recorded 79 offenses against 71 people. That's not how many victims he had. That's what they record decades after the fact. When it's finally okay to talk about, he's abusing hundreds of people in West Yorkshire alone. Right, we'll talk about. We have no idea his total number of victims, but we'll talk about what we know about it. I just need you to understand this is like an every night thing for him. He is abusing people with tremendous startling regularity. In 1972. Yeah. Sorry, no.

[Courtney Kosak]

5 is so young. You said the range was 5 to

[Brett]

45, 5 to 45. In that area. A year after the investigation starts. Yes.

[Courtney Kosak]

Ugh, it's nauseating. I didn't even think he went that old. But the young end of his rage

[Brett]

is truly fragrant in like the 80s. Yeah, yeah, the young end is real bleak. In 1972, Jimmy had a radio documentary made about him. The World of Jimmy Savile obe. It attempted to investigate who Jimmy was as a person, something that had proven nearly impossible for interviewers to nail down. Jimmy himself claimed to have nothing to hide from people. Quote, they asked me, are you queer? I say, no, but if I felt that way, I would have been. They asked me, why don't you get married? I say, well, I've never felt the need. I've got nothing to hide from people. And when you come to think about it, I lead a dead simple sort of life, which is okay and definitely enough for me. Simple. Now, the fact that Jimmy has been awarded the Order of the British Empire, as I noted earlier, makes it possible for him to enter these higher echelons of British society. But it doesn't guarantee that he'll make friends and find influence there. To do that, he's gonna need to put in work. And initially, it seems Jimmy tries to hedge his bets by getting in good with politicians on both sides of the aisle. In an article for the Tribune, Farrell Kinney writes, during the politically febrile 1970s, Savile appears to have hedged his bets. Filming a 1974 party political broadcast with Liberal leader Jeremy Thorpe. Liberal politician Cyril Smith, who would be unmasked as a pedophile in the aftermath of Savile's death, enjoyed a light entertainment run on Savile's Clunk Clink program. So he does Talk to in the 70s. He's hanging out and kind of boosting Liberal politicians, and he will later boost Conservative politicians. But one of the Liberal politicians he boosts, Cyril Smith, and has on his show a bunch of times, is unmasked as a pedophile, too. That's gonna be a habit for, like, friends of Jimmy's. We've talked to three so far. Lord Mountbatten, the dude, the photographer on the show, and this fucking politician. So that's three pedophiles, head of Jimmy Sapple. Friends already. The clique. Yeah, the clique. And also he knows he and Prince Andrew are buddies. We know what Prince Andrew's getting up to. No longer Prince Andrew. In 1975, Jimmy Savile did something rare, which is that he officially becomes a bigger TV star than he had ever been. Like a radio star. This is the moment where he fully crosses over. And from this point on, he's not going to be primarily known as a dj. He's going to be primarily known for his work on BBC tv. The BBC gives him, like, a dedicated show called Jimmel Fix Exit, which airs for the first time in 1975 in a 74, 75 and a primetime spot on Saturdays. Right? This is like a major show. It's running at basically the best time you can. And the premise is very simple. Children from around the world write Jimmy Savile letters outlining their wildest dreams, and Jim will fix it. So the dream comes true. Writing for cnn, Dave Gilbert notes that at its height, this program, which again runs until 19, is. Yeah, not runs from 1975 to 1994, was receiving, quote, 20,000 requests a week. Famous fixes included an encounter with boxing legend Muhammad Ali and the Boy Scouts, who wanted to eat their packed lunches on a roller coaster, resulting in a predictable mess. So that's the kind of show it is. You can see why this is such a hit. You know, you've got. First off, you've got these kids. And the way the show works is like, Jimmy gets letters, right? It's like a make a wish and he gets to read these cute letters that these kids write with their own drawings. He gets to laugh at, like, kids being cute or spelling stuff bad. Then you get to have the kid on, talk about their dream, and then you get to, like, film you making it happen for them. And then he gives them, like, these medallions that say, Jim fixed it for me. Which for a while were quite valuable. So the series is. It's a massive success and it makes Jimmy more dangerous than Ever. Because now he's gone from. This is like a DJ who has access to teenage girls because he has access to pop stars. But, like, that has a time limit on it, for one thing. Jimmy's pushing to middle age now, so it's getting harder and harder for him to still seem like Britain's oldest teenager. Now he has a reason to be around kids and be trusted by them because he's Santa. He's like British Santa.

[Courtney Kosak]

It's crazy that they greenlit this show.

[Brett]

We need a guy to be Santa Claus. Let's have a giant pedophile. Yeah, the guy who moles all the kids. Bring him on. He'll be a great Santa. Yeah. So the dreams he made come true ran the gamut. In one early episode, a child wished to fly like Peter Pan and sword fight Captain Hook. And Jim's crew used, like, stage rigging and theater equipment to make that happen in the same way you would for, like, a Broadway production, you know? Another kid wanted to take his schoolteacher out for an expensive dinner at a fine dining establishment. And so they put him up at this, like, crazy restaurant with these really elaborate meals, and they film all of it. You know, you can see why generations of Britons ate this show up, right? That said, as innocent as this is sounds and should have been, the content wasn't always innocent. And in fact, Jimmy can't help himself from, like, making references to his current and future sex crimes. There's bits of that littered all throughout episode of Jim Will Fix It. Sophie's gonna provide you with show you all one brief clip.

[Robert]

Ever since I can remember, I've always wanted to be a singer, but shyness has always got in the way. Please, could you fix it for me to sing Yours Sincerely, Debbie Coleman.

[Clip Voice]

Here's somebody to help her who also has a problem with being shy. Gary Glitter.

[Brett]

So Gary Glitter, huh? That doesn't seem like it was too bad, right? Just a kid who wants to be a pop star and he's like, okay, I'll fix you up with my friend Gary Glitter. And Gary was indeed. Have you heard of Gary Courtney? Do you know anything about this guy?

[Courtney Kosak]

No. No. Also, that kid was 20, so.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah, kid was 20. Thankfully, Gary Glitter was a major pop star in the 70s and 80s and was a close friend of Jimmy Savile. He was brought down in 1999 after being convicted of downloading child sex abuse material. He was eventually charged with child sex abuse and attempted rape of a child, among other offenses. Glitter and Savile partied regularly throughout the 70s and 80s and shared a taste for little girls. And in Glitter's case, the youngest of his victims were 10 and 11. So great that he's, he's hooking him up with people on the show. Good to have Gary Glitter on Jim Will Fix It. At least that person seems to have been an adult. Thank fucking God they often weren't. Now, the fact that Jimmy wasn't singled out when Glitter got busted is extraordinary, especially because Jim made repeated, as I was kind of insinuating earlier, he made repeated open comments about his attraction to girls as young as 11 in episodes of his hit BBC show Top of the Pops. And in Jim Will Fix It. Here's just one example, and this is from the part of Jim Will Fix it where he hands out his famous Jim Fixed It For Me medallions to winners of the show. So we're gonna look at that clip right now.

[Clip Voice]

Give both these young ladies their Jim Will Fix it badges because. Wait a minute, how old are you?

[Brett]

12.

[Clip Voice]

12. Hello, Judge. And how old are you?

[Brett]

7.

[Clip Voice]

You're not married, Leah. Oh, that's all right then.

[Brett]

It's fine, it's fine. EVERYBODY LAUGHS Right, what did he say to her? He said, he asked her age and she said 12. And he said, hello, Judge. Yes, he's joking that he's going to molest her and get in trouble.

[Robert]

Oh, God.

[Brett]

And then the other girl says, 11. And he says, are you married? And everyone laughs. Ha ha, ha, ha.

[Courtney Kosak]

I didn't catch the are you married, young lady?

[Brett]

Yeah, I was just. This isn't again.

[Robert]

And I think this is part of his shtick. I was so thrown off by how odd he looked and him leaning over and he's like that. I didn't barely even. Courtney missed it too. I was like, what did this strange man say?

[Brett]

But literally what he's doing is first making a joke about molesting a 12 year old and getting in trouble in court and then making a joke about wanting to marry an 11 year old. Those are the jokes. Jokes. He's not hiding this or it is. He's hiding in very plain sight. And that that hello, judge bit is a constant. That's one of Jim's like, catchphrases, right? Is he'll reference his attraction to a young girl and then go, hello, Judge. You know, he makes constant jokes. He'll also joke about having an upcoming court date. Like, I've had a great life and I go to, you know, my trials next Thursday or something like that was like a really common reference from him. So there's a lot of bits about him being in trouble with the law for his attraction to underaged girls that he performs on air with regularity once he dies. And all of the stories of the actual abuse start flooding out into the open, people begin looking through old episodes of Jim Will Fix it and they find a lot of evidence of the pedophile hiding in plain sight. For an example of that, here's one find from a user on the website beta.com and this guy's actually like, posting video from an old episode. He's, like, filming it on his laptop again. A lot of these original episodes are kind of harder to find now. So Sophie's gonna play you a clip that starts with Jimmy reading this kid's letter.

[Clip Voice]

Well, think about that one as well. From North Chingford, London East 4. Dear Jimmy, Fix it. Has it happened here? As it happens, I think you have fixed it up, people now, and I think it is about time you were fixed. So will you fix it for me to come along to the BBC theatre and fix you? Lots of love, Barclay Quarter Men, P. S. Please do not tickle me here, Barclay. I. I'm presuming with Barclay Quartermaine that you happen to be a young man and I'm not in the habit of tickling young men, but if you had a sister, who knows?

[Brett]

However, again, again, it's just. He's just. Everyone laughs at this joke about this weird guy tickling a female child against her will. Right. It's just funny. It's a bit, you know, nobody takes it seriously. It's fucking amazing how open this is. Like the man.

[Robert]

Yeah, he's.

[Brett]

If the show was called Jim A Pedophile, it could hardly be more open about this guy's proclivities.

[Courtney Kosak]

Yeah.

[Brett]

And yet, like, paradoxically, the jokes act as a sort of camouflage, as does, as you've said, the way he's dressed and the way he presents himself. It all helps him. It's very effective at letting him hide in plain sight. And in some ways, it's giving him, like, the fact that he brings the audience in, makes them complicit. That's part of the tactic. They're giving him permission to act the way he does. If everyone's laughing, can what he said really be so bad?

[Courtney Kosak]

Right, but it's crazy that when Gary Glitter goes down or whatever, they're not like, but wait a minute, what about his best friend?

[Brett]

But that happens so often that some guy will go down for pedophilia, who is known as a close friend of Jimmy Savile and Jimmy doesn't get in trouble like it happens a bunch. Good stuff. I'm happy. How are you doing?

[Courtney Kosak]

Whew. I'm okay.

[Brett]

Have we had a second AD break yet? Sophie?

[Robert]

We have not.

[Brett]

We have not. Let's do that the fuck now. Let's take a second and then come back.

[Ad Voice 1]

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[Brett]

And we're back. So Jim will fix. It was such an outrageous hit that it launched Jimmy's career as a superstar, or at least a UK superstar. He's never, people will notice. He never really crosses over in the way that like some big BBC figures do. But he's very popular within the uk. As Dave Gilbert summarizes, generations of Britons also remember him for a string of public information films, including a road safety promotion that encouraged motorists to use their seat belts, a campaign that started before wearing belts became compulsory in the uk. Savile's closing catchphrase, clunk, click. Every trip was instantly memorable and caught on with the watching public. He also promoted the rail, the national rail network in a campaign Dublin dubbed this is the Age of the Train. And I, I read that quote because it's, it's probably impossible for me to get across to an audience of mostly Americans and people from elsewhere in the world besides the uk, what Jimmy Savile meant to Britons of a certain age. The best I can do is to say that for most young British kids from like the late 60s and 70s, well really like the 70s through the early 90s, Jimmy Savile was the BBC. He has too many TV shows to keep track of. And whenever there's like a big. We're doing a big fundraiser, we're doing a big New Year's or whatever thing, we're doing a big holiday thing. Jimmy's the guy who gets picked a lot of times to like headline or MC. Cause he's the face of the BBC, right, for like 20 years.

[Courtney Kosak]

He's kind of like Regis Philbin or something.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah. But even like, I was aware of Regis as a kid, but we have so much choice and option for channels and the UK didn't as much in this period of time. So the fact that he is the face of the BBC, to a lot of kids, they would have just seen Jimmy as woven into the foundation of the earth almost in like, if you were a 90s kid, a kid of like the late 80s through the 90s, the way that Robin Williams was to our generation, where it was just like, this is just like. And Robin never did anything wrong that I'm aware of. But other than steal some jokes, but I think that's forgivable. You know, he was pretty coked out. But that, that level of like this. This guy is woven into the firmament as, like a part of your childhood, right? Yeah.

[Courtney Kosak]

And then like an uncle.

[Brett]

Kind of like an uncle. Like the country's weird uncle. Right. In 1971, Jimmy also started volunteering at the National Spinal Injury center at the Stoke Mandeville Hospital. He not only raised money to renovate the hospital hospital's facilities, which had fallen into tremendous disrepair, but he started doing regular shifts as an orderly, helping new patients to their rooms and doing rounds, just as an employee would have done. As we'll talk about, this goes on for decades. From the start of Jimmy's time volunteering at Stoke Mandeville, there were rumors that Jimmy, per one acquaintance at the BBC, abused his position by having sexual relations with patients. But this source insists he never heard anything about illegal activity with underaged girls. So this guy's saying basically everyone knew that Jimmy's sleeping with patients at the hospital that he's helping to fund and is working at as an orderly. But we never thought that they were underage. Jimmy's like, it's not okay if they're all 40.

[Courtney Kosak]

It's hard for them to get away. They have spinal injuries.

[Brett]

That's literally why he does it. Yes. That is the tactic here. Unfortunately. Dark now, however prevalent these rumors are, they weren't enough to offset the funds that he's raising for Stoke Mandeville, particularly at a time by the late 70s, Great Britain's social safety net is starting to look like it's running on fumes.

[Robert]

It's pretty. It's pretty gross that they're like that. Like, the cost of, like, fundraising is just, like, mass sexual abuse.

[Brett]

Gotta let this pedophile abuse people.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Brett]

Otherwise we wouldn't have money to keep the spine hospital in business. Business.

[Robert]

Yeah. They really value. They really value people's lives and wellness and just Sophie, despicably.

[Brett]

So much angrier. You're gonna get so much angry.

[Robert]

I was, like, trying to, like, hold. I got really angry after part two that I was like. I was like, I'm gonna try to pace myself this.

[Brett]

For an idea of how bad this is. We don't. We're not in the product practice doing trigger warnings on this show. Like, I cried during the research of to these episodes. That hasn't happened for years. Like, I am dead inside. And I was fucking full on weeping during some of the research for this. Because what he's just the scale of it and the degree to which his victims had no possible method of fighting back against him. Right. He's going after People who are the most desperate people he can find in his society. Anyway, let's talk about Margaret Thatcher. In 1977, Savile first hosted Member of Parliament Margaret Thatcher on a visit to Stoke Mandeville. The two became fast friends. Thatcher liked Jimmy because his talent for raising money to fund public programs and facilities meant that the government didn't need to use as much tax money to support the nhs. Jimmy, on the other hand, seems to have instinctively seen that Thatcher was going places and he wanted her to owe him. His opportunity to do this would come as a result of the harsh austerity policy Thatcher sought to press upon the country if she became Prime Minister. Her vision of an ideal Britain didn't include public funding for healthcare, but did include a worship of wealthy and powerful people and the charity they might be convinced to provide rather than compulsory taxes. By 1978, Savile was one of the most prominent charitable fundraisers in the country. If you just tax rich people to fund your social safety net, to fund your hospital hospitals, then none of them are particularly like, gain a position of necessarily power over the organizations they're funding if you're just paying taxes. And that keeps the hospitals going. If you just walk into the hospital and be like, well, my taxes pay for this hospital, people are gonna be like, fuck you. But if you walk in and say, like, no, no, no, like, you guys were gonna have to close down and I raised $10 million to keep you in business, they're gonna let you do whatever you want, Right? That's why a lot of rich people love charity. Right? That's why, again, if you watch the Bone Temple, the bad guys in the Bone Temple are based on Jimmy Savile. They're traveling around doing what they call charity. This is like that whole movie is a critique of Thatcherism and Savile's role in it. Anyway, I love that film.

[Courtney Kosak]

You're talking me into a wealth tax right now. That's what you're doing.

[Brett]

Oh, yeah. However, as Farrell Kenny noted in his piece for the UK Tribune, Savile, quote, preferred small local char over large ones with organized structures. He does a lot of charity, but again, it's mostly with these smaller orgs for a reason, because then they're totally dependent on him and there's not gonna be as much red tape. There's not gonna be as much, you know, people looking into what he's actually doing. And in Kenny's article, he links to a Super 8 video from 1978 of Jimmy hosting a charity event for blind children in the video, Savile receives a flower from a young blind girl and then a drawing of himself. And I'm just gonna have Sophie show you the clip and we'll describe what's happening for those of you who, like, he's out in front of this facility. He's got on, like, this shirt that looks like a fucking. What's that?

[Courtney Kosak]

It's like a game of Twister.

[Brett]

Yeah, it looks like a game of Twister. I don't know how else to describe it. And, yeah, there's this little blind girl, looks like she's maybe 12, being led up to him so she can give him this drawing of himself.

[Clip Voice]

Yes. Now say what you got to say.

[Brett]

Thank you for coming.

[Clip Voice]

Thank you for coming.

[Brett]

Isn't that nice of you? And a lovely rose from the beautiful lady. She's so pretty as well.

[Robert]

Did he say? And she's so pretty as well.

[Brett]

And she's so pretty as well. Goodness gracious. And again, you know, not necessarily upsetting unless you know what's actually going on.

[Robert]

So icky. If he wasn't such a fucking file.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now, at the time, the more noteworthy thing about that performance was that he takes out this photo that's been drawn of him and he jokes about it being a photo fit of the Yorkshire Ripper. Right? He jokes that this drawing of him is like, actually a picture of the Yorkshire Ripper, who's a serial killer that was active at the time. This is a guy who ultimately murders more than a dozen women by the time he's caught and is actively killing people. And, like, the police are actively looking for him in 1978. Now, the real Yorkshire Ripper was named Peter Sutcliffe. And again, he was ultimately caught and convicted of his crimes, I think, in 1981, but that's like three years away. And what's interesting about this to me, just as a side bit, is that at the time Jimmy jokes about looking like the Yorkshire Ripper, he was an active suspect in the murders. My God. Quote from the Telegram. Savile was brought in for questioning after members of the public contacted the police, naming him as a possible subject. After a body was found close to Savile's Roundhay park home, a Harley street dentist was ordered to make a cast of Savile's teeth. Now, again, Jimmy wasn't the Ripper, but it says a lot about what he was doing and how many people did try to stop him that so many members of the public reported him as being the likely culprit that the police force which was largely staffed by his friends, had to investigate. That's how many people think that know there's something going on, that they're like, well, maybe he's. Maybe he's the serial killer. Right. Like, there's a lot people do know what's happening, and they do try to do something.

[Courtney Kosak]

He's a serial something. Yeah.

[Brett]

Wild that he's joking about it now. That same year, 1978, Jimmy wrote another book, God'll Fix it, about his Catholic faith. It included these chilling lines. In my early years, I can tell you, I did a lot of things that need a bit of forgiveness. I was in a business that was fraught with temptations. Temptations of the flesh are all about. So in my early days, I was a great. And he puts this in quotations. Abuser of things and bodies and people.

[Courtney Kosak]

Okay, okay.

[Brett]

Couldn't be more clear. Interesting that abusers in quotation marks. I don't know what entirely he meant by that, but, you know, he's not.

[Courtney Kosak]

That is interesting.

[Brett]

Hiding it. Yeah. Now, the fact that he's so public about aspects of his personal life, as we'll call it, has consequences for him. Other people do read what he's writing and read these interviews. Well, he'll talk about his sex life, and they get upset, even if they don't all. They don't always mark him out as a potential pedophile. They don't always realize what's happening, but they know that something is wrong. And there's also people in the pop industry who know more. Again, maybe not everything, but they know enough. They know enough other people that they know something about what's going on. One of these people is Sex Pistols frontman John Lydon, who said in an interview in 1978, I'd like to kill Jimmy Savile. I think he's a hypocrite. I bet he's into all kinds of seediness that we all know about but are not allowed to talk about about. I know some rumors. He then added, I bet none of this will be allowed out. And it wasn't. The clip did not air with the rest of the interview.

[Courtney Kosak]

Good for that.

[Brett]

Yeah. I said something.

[Robert]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, that guy had a lot of power and he didn't do that much with it. But, like, you know better than every other adult in this convert and in this entire thing.

[Brett]

Yeah. As we'll talk about, you know, libel laws in the UK are a big part of why stuff like that gets cut out. Is Jimmy's litigious and people are scared of being sued by him. Prior to the 1979 elections, Saffle hosted a special episode of Jim Will Fix it at the Houses of Parliament, where Margaret Thatcher asked him to fix it for her to become Prime Minister. She was elected on May 3rd of that year. Right after she took office, Thatcher had her staff at Downing street called Jim. Me, quote, her secretary rang to say she was rather upset because I hadn't been round to give her a badge, to give her her badge. I reported to Downing Street a few days later and presented it. Oh, good. Thank you, Jimmy, for Margaret Thatcher, for fixing it so she got to be Prime Minister.

[Robert]

I really. I really hate when a woman gets it so wrong.

[Brett]

Oh, she's. It's. We have barely. I know, scratched the surface of how bad this. This is. Now, not long after this, Jim was carrying out Jim's Daily Dozen, a series of sponsored runs through various British towns meant as fundraisers for different causes. He asked Margaret which charity she wanted a chunk of the money he was raising to go to, and he ultimately presented her with a check for £10,000 for the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. The. The nspcc. That's. That's good. Thatcher love, cares deeply about the kids. Kids, obviously. Obviously. Jimmy and Margaret would remain close friends for the remainder of Thatcher's PM ship and life. Jimmy's skill with charity was extremely convenient, given Thatcher's conservative austerity politics. By the start of Thatcher's term, the National Spinal Injury center at Stoke Mandeville was in such bad shape that five ceilings of housing units had collapsed during a winter storm. The NHS needed additional funding for repairs, and that was very much not in the budget or in the spirit of Thatcherism. However, Stoke Mandeville is a major facility in the uk. It's like a historically important hospital, and allowing the facility to collapse would make for terrible pr because you want to cut the budget, you want to cut, quote, unquote entitlements, but you don't want people to realize that they're taking. You're taking away their health care care so that rich people have more money. You really want to hide that until the latest possible moment. Savile held a meeting with Gerard Vaughn, Minister of State for Health, as Davies describes in the book. For the book, In Plain Sight, quote. Over tea and cake at the House of Commons, Vaughn outlined the new government's thinking on the National Health Services, a philosophy which ordained that special projects such as rebuilding work at hospitals, even such urgent work as that required at Stoke Mandeville would have to be supported by voluntary contributions in line with the cuts in public expenditure Prime Minister Thatcher was implementing across the board. Vaughn suggested this meant they had a problem. Not really, replied Savile. And they struck a deal. Jimmy Savile would lead a campaign to rebuild the Spinal Injuries Unit at Stoke Mandeville using private money and donations. In other words, it was to be a pioneering example of the type of partnership between government and the public that the Prime Minister was so keen to promote. Now, the renovations were to cost between 6 and 10 million pounds, as Jimmy announced at a subsequent press conference. When he was asked, shouldn't the NHS just be funding this? He replied, this is the way they used to build hospitals years ago, and laid out how a simple five pound donation could pay for a brick, allowing every Briton a chance to support one of the most famous hospitals in the country. To make a long story short, it worked. Savile used his connections to wealth and fame to solicit high dollar donations and his ability to connect with average Britons and host public runs and other fundraisers to solicit large numbers of small dollar donations. Now, he does succeed in convincing Thatcher to contribute half a million pounds of public money to the cause. Right, but that means this goes from a thing that the NHS would have had to pay £10 million of public money to do to something they have to pay just a half million pounds of public money to do, because he raises the other nine and a half that's needed. Once the money was raised, Savile was feted in a public press conference next to Prince Charles and Margaret Thatcher herself. This marks the beginning of his true climb up the rungs of power and fame in British Hyde society. As Farrell Kinney writes, the preceding years had seen Savile work his way upwards through media elites dance halls, to radio, pop television, to primetime flagship television, as well as integrating into the National Health Service. The years that followed, however, can be understood as Savile tirelessly working upwards through the British establishment, the Thatcher government, the monarchy and an ever present relationship with the police. So that's good.

[Robert]

Do we have any evidence that Charles knows a bit.

[Brett]

We'll talk about Charles a lot more, don't worry, Zoe, you can come to your conclusion.

[Robert]

Because I'm just thinking like, he got like some, you know, I would guess people were not upset with him for, you know, not standing in the way of his brother getting arrested for being a disgusting pedophile and he got praised for it and, oh, did he, you

[Brett]

know, yeah, we'll talk a lot More about Charles. We're not nearly done with him yet.

[Robert]

I'd like to know more is what I'm saying.

[Brett]

From the Thatcher years on, Savile was what some royal family watchers described as a court jester to the family. Right. That's the role he takes on social media. Savile first meets Prince Charles in 1977, which is the same year that he met Thatcher. And Princess Diana herself later wrote that Jimmy was a mentor to the future king. Right. That's Princess Di's take on things, that Jimmy Savile is her husband's mentor.

[Robert]

Diana.

[Brett]

Now, I was not at all surprised to learn that Savile and Thatcher had used each other for mutual benefit. What did surprise me is that this seems to have been a genuine friendship on Margaret's part, as in, she deeply liked and appreciated this historically prolific race, and he seems to have enjoyed her company and considered her a safe person to joke around with. After one lunch in 1981, Savile wrote a letter to Thatcher that included the lines, my girl Patience pretended to be madly jealous and wanted to know what you wore and what you ate. All the paralyzed lads called me Sir James all week. They all love you. Me too. Great. It's beautiful to see a friendship blossom. It's wonderful here.

[Courtney Kosak]

I don't like the use of Me

[Robert]

too and Savile in the same sentence.

[Brett]

Yeah. Not a lot of people.

[Robert]

Me too.

[Brett]

This is awful bit about. They all called me Sir James is something he includes here. Because as soon as he becomes friends with Thatcher, Savile starts working her to try to get him white. Baby's a knighthood. He's already obe. The next step up is a knighthood baby. Right. And Margaret spends, like a decade fighting for this. She spends years pushing Jimmy to be a Knight in 1983. In 1933, Thatcher wrote Sir Robert Armstrong, the chair of the National Honors Committee, to ask about making Savile a knight. But Sir Robert said no. And his reasoning wasn't that Jimmy was like, obviously a dangerous child predator. It was that he'd just endured a minor scandal about some comments he'd made in an interview about the young girls he hung out with at his charity runs. The AIDS crisis was on fire at that point, and Sir Robert thought it was inappropriate for the government to celebrate and endorse a man who made light of premarital sex. Sex. He pointed out that the lurid details of Jimmy's sexcapades hadn't faded from public memory yet, and it would be best if Mr. Savile were to wait a little bit longer, per the BBC. Quote, we remain worried. He added, fears have been expressed that Mr. Saville might not be able to refrain from exploiting a knighthood in a way which brought the honor system into disrepute.

[Robert]

You know, accuracy.

[Courtney Kosak]

There's no way this was a genuine friendship. They're both just empty inside and they're such climbers. Fucking pieces of shit.

[Brett]

She goes to bat for him, though, right? Which do any of these people have real friendships in? As much as Thatcher ever did or Savile ever did. Right? They were tight. They both very much needed each other. Right?

[Courtney Kosak]

It's like when Trump talks about having, like, his friends. It's like you don't have one single friend on this planet.

[Brett]

Not really. But you have people you need. And it's noteworthy the amount that Margaret goes to bat for. Jimmy Me shows you how much she thinks she needs him. He is not just a celebrity who's kind of friendly. She is a major. He's a major part of Thatcherism, but she needs him, okay? He allows her to do a lot of the austerity shit she wants to do without seeming like she's fucking the country as much as she is, because he's keeping the lights on in some of these facilities. And in return, he gets a blind eye turn to his molestation of hundreds and hundreds of people because he's keeping the lights on in these facilities, which allows her to fucking cut shit to the bone. Right? That's Savile's role in Thatcherism, and it's a significant one, as shown by how much Margaret herself goes to bat for this guy. Now, the fact that it's great. I love it when Margaret Thatcher's in the story. Now, the fact that Sir Robert is worried Savile would use being knighted in order to, like, for his own benefit in some way that threw the system into disrepute was prescient. Savile's already, at this point, using his fame as a charitable fundraiser to shut down investigations into his sex crimes. Per the BBC, Savile persuaded the tabloids not to run stories by telling them they would be responsible for the end of his charity fundraising. Savile himself admitted in an interview. People leap about. Yes, they do do. If he wants something because of his charitable work, right? Folks will do anything for me because of all the money I'm raising for good causes now. Any hope of negative reporting on Savile's crimes was further dashed by his close public friendship with Thatcher. Again, this makes it harder. You're some fucking kid who's like, at a juvenile fuck like, facility or whatever because you got in trouble for something and Jimmy's molesting you. And this guy's. You're gonna try to report the guy who's friends with the Prime Minister. Yeah, that'll work.

[Courtney Kosak]

And the Royal Family.

[Brett]

And the Prince. Yeah, and the Royal fucking family. In one episode of Jim Will Fix It, a little girl asks to be a cop for a day at 10 Downing street and Jimmy uses his connections to Thatcher to fix it. He gets. She gets a cop uniform and she gets to like, patrol around in front of the Prime Minister's residence. And when. When Thatcher shows up in her limo or whatever, like, the kid gets like, escort her from her car to her residence. Residents, TV viewers eat this up. Like, it's adorable, right? But his victims, many of whom are stuck in hospitals and psychiatric wards, see this as more evidence that Jim is untouchable. I found an article on the website Investigative Psychiatry that's like analyzing a bunch of different investigations, several. Because after it all comes out how many people he was abusing, all the hospitals he volunteered at have these internal investigations into how Jimmy was allowed to abuse their patients for decades. And there's like an NHS investigation, an NSCC investigation. So this article, kind of summarizing all of those in the investigations, notes he leveraged his fame and claims of high level political friendships to intimidate those around him. He successfully made hospital staff believe he had the power to have them fired, while simultaneously coercing vulnerable patients into believing that reporting his abuse would only worsen their treatment and lead to punishment. Now he's. Yeah, it's great, great. And the fact that for an idea of how much fucking absolute impunity he has. You remember in the first couple episodes we talked about, Jimmy's got this weird thing about dead bodies as a kid. Yes, it's kind of a regular, like, thing. Like he makes some really weird statements whenever he sees, like, dead people.

[Courtney Kosak]

Yeah, saw that chick get chopped up. Oof.

[Brett]

Yeah. Let me read a quote from a BBC article, I'm afraid Dr. Sue Proctor, who chaired an inquiry into Savile's actions at Leeds General Infirmary, said the star also had an unwholesome interest in the dead. It is alleged he posed for photographs and performed sex acts as on corpses in the hospital mortuary. She also referred to Savile's claims that large rings he wore were made from the glass eyes of dead bodies at the mortuary. There's more we could say here. Jimmy's a necrophile. He's abusing dead bodies. That's, like, bad and gross. That's kind of all we're gonna say about. In these episodes. It's important you know that about him. But, like, we're focused. Like, the living people are, like, my primary concern. Obviously, like, this is bad, too. It's just. Yeah, that's how bad this guy is. The necrophilia is, like, a side note. Also, he's doing this. It's not on the front burner in terms of, like, the things he's doing bad.

[Courtney Kosak]

Could you.

[Robert]

I just want you to repeat that one part about.

[Brett]

What did you say he was with?

[Robert]

What? The ring.

[Brett]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert]

What?

[Brett]

Yeah, he wore. He loves. He's got these big rings. And he would tell everybody he made comments about this publicly. They're made from, like, the glass eyes from dead bodies Mortuary. That's where his rings get their big gems from. Cool stuff, Jimmy.

[Robert]

I have to say to that. Great.

[Brett]

Thanks, man. So my interpretation of what's kind of going on behind the scenes in Jimmy Savile's head through this period is this. You've got this guy who gets his start as a hit DJ in a time when that means unlimited sexual access to teenage girls. He enjoys this for years, but he's not an idiot. He can see this isn't gonna last forever. And since he doesn't really like any of his fellow DJs socially, he's got enough perspective to realize they're flirting with danger while literally flirting with children. The BBC offers him a professional escape to a world with less scrutiny and more money, just as his old colleagues start drawing attention for their behavior. And then he realizes the more big public acts of charity he does, the more good he gets in with the people running the country and the more camouflage he gets for his behavior. And this provides him with direct access to victims in his preferred age range who can't defend themselves. And that's why he volunteers primarily at spinal wards, psychiatric hospitals, and as we'll talk about in our next episode, the Duncroft Approved School for Girls. Okay. And that's part three.

[Courtney Kosak]

I. Oh, my gosh, I hate this guy.

[Brett]

Harrowing stuff, isn't it?

[Courtney Kosak]

This is the worst one I've ever done.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is one of the worst ones as we've ever done. This guy is. Yeah. The devil himself. Really.

[Robert]

I don't even know if there's a word to properly describe how disgusting he is.

[Brett]

No, no.

[Robert]

I've been trying to think of one, and I'M at a loss.

[Brett]

He's just a fox that got led into a hen house made up of every single person in a hospital in the uk.

[Courtney Kosak]

Okay, cool. I don't even.

[Brett]

You gotta plug something.

[Courtney Kosak]

Sorry. Yeah, my book let me recover for a second. I wrote a book. It's honestly way happier than this. And there's a lot of sad shit in the book. It's called Girl Gone Wild. And it's. It's feminist, which we need after listening to this.

[Brett]

Yeah, Sounds nice.

[Robert]

Abhorrent. Abhorrent. I'm just coming. Trying to. I'm just throwing out words. Abhorrent. Sickening.

[Brett]

Yeah. Obscene. I don't know.

[Robert]

Revolting. Loathsome.

[Brett]

Loathsome's a good one. Yeah. We don't use that word enough. Yeah. Loathsome. Let's end with loathsome.

[Robert]

Okay. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartrade app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com BehindTheBastards we love about 40% of you, statistically speaking.

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[Brett]

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[Brett]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Robert]

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