Part Two: Frank Fay, The Fascist Who invented Stand Up Comedy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Behind the Bastards – Part Two: Frank Fay, The Fascist Who Invented Stand Up Comedy

Podcast Information:

• Title: Behind the Bastards
• Host/Author: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Part Two: Frank Fay, The Fascist Who Invented Stand Up Comedy
• Release Date: August 14, 2025

Introduction to Frank Fay The episode delves into the life of Frank Fay, a pivotal yet controversial figure in the history of American entertainment. Known as the man who invented stand-up comedy, Fay's legacy is marred by his deeply ingrained bigotry and destructive personal life.

Early Life and Career Beginnings Frank Fay emerged as a prominent name in vaudeville during the late 1910s. Unlike many of his contemporaries, Fay chose a transient lifestyle, residing exclusively in upscale hotels rather than maintaining a permanent home. This nomadic existence was influenced by his tumultuous family background and his father's abandonment to work on the Panama Canal, leading to a fractured childhood for Fay.

Relationship with Barbara Stanwyck A significant portion of the episode focuses on Fay's tumultuous relationship with Barbara Stanwyck, a rising star in Broadway. Their relationship began in the late 1920s, characterized by a substantial age gap and marked by Fay's manipulative and abusive behavior. Despite Fay's notorious reputation as an alcoholic and womanizer, Stanwyck fell deeply in love with him, even to the point of sacrificing her burgeoning career.

• Notable Quote:
  • Robert Evans (05:57): "Here's a great example of a toxic relationship... She willingly stuck by him despite knowing all his flaws."

Transition to Hollywood and Career Decline As the entertainment industry transitioned from vaudeville to film, Fay attempted to replicate his stage success in Hollywood. However, his anti-Semitic views and volatile personality severely hindered his career progression. Unlike Stanwyck, whose movie career soared, Fay struggled to secure significant roles, leading to financial instability and further personal decline.

Anti-Semitism and Political Radicalization Fay's deep-seated anti-Semitism became increasingly prominent, especially during the rise of fascist sentiments in the United States. His association with Father Charles Coughlin, a known fascist radio priest, further alienated him from mainstream Hollywood and cemented his status as a pariah.

• Notable Quote:
  • Andrew T (52:44): "He's a bigot, and that's a big part of why he couldn't get work in Hollywood."

The 1946 Fascist Rally In a final act of defiance, Fay organized a fascist rally at Madison Square Garden in January 1946, aligning himself with extremist groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party. This event was met with widespread condemnation and effectively ended any remaining prospects of his career.

• Notable Quote:
  • Robert Evans (71:38): "He holds a Nazi rally in 1946, and this backfires in every way possible, destroying his career once and for all."

Later Years and Legacy Frank Fay's later years were marked by isolation and obscurity. Despite his early influence in shaping stand-up comedy, his personal failings and extremist beliefs overshadowed his contributions to the entertainment industry. He passed away in Santa Monica in 1961, largely forgotten by the public.

Conclusion and Insights Frank Fay's story is a cautionary tale of how personal demons and hateful ideologies can ruin even the most talented individuals. While he played a crucial role in the development of stand-up comedy, his legacy serves as a reminder of the destructive power of bigotry and abusive behavior.

• Notable Quote:
  • Robert Evans (83:53): "Comedy's more about just making fun of the people you hate, and sometimes those people deserve it. Frank Fay being a great example."

Final Thoughts The episode paints a complex picture of Frank Fay—a talented yet reprehensible figure whose innovations in comedy are irrevocably tainted by his abhorrent personal conduct and extremist beliefs. It highlights the often-overlooked dark sides of influential personalities and the lasting impact of their actions on both their personal lives and broader societal norms.

References:

• Books and Articles:
  • Victoria Williams' book on Frank Fay
  • Meredith Grau's article on Barbara Stanwyck
  • New York Times obituary excerpts

Listeners’ Takeaway: Understanding figures like Frank Fay is essential in dissecting the intertwined nature of talent and morality. The episode encourages listeners to critically evaluate historical figures, acknowledging their contributions while not excusing their flaws.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Robert Evans (05:57): "She's a good guy in this, but she's definitely... there's some toxicity."
• Robert Evans (16:29): "It's so nuts. Barbara is the good guy in this, but there's toxicity coming from her side too."
• Robert Evans (52:11): "This right-wing celebrity starts complaining about a thing he doesn't like, and his fans start threatening to murder people on his behalf. Right. Same as it ever was."

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions about Frank Fay.

Transcript

[Robert Evans]

Call Zone Media. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to behind the Bastards. This is a podcast about the worst people in all of history. And I'm Robert Evans, doing my best NPR voice. That work. Did that work? It made me uncomfortable. Did it make you uncomfortable? It makes me uncomfortable. Yeah.

[Andrew T]

I liked it.

[Robert Evans]

Yep. Speaking. Speaking of npr, you know who's better than npr?

[Andrew T]

I mean, lots of folks.

[Robert Evans]

Well, Anderson. Anderson. And our guest today, Andrew T. Yeah, I don't have a particular problem with npr. I don't know. I don't really listen to npr, but I assume they're valuable, right? They're still good. I don't think we have beef with npr. Did they do something horrible? I don't know.

[Andrew T]

They are valuable relative to the media landscape in a America, but they are not like a net value to the world, probably. They're like all things that are good in America, quote, unquote good. They're kind of like center right, Namby pamby, ism. But what are you gonna do?

[Robert Evans]

They've got. Yeah, I'm sure they've got their problems. I think they're like basically the only thing that equivocates to local news in a lot of ways. Right. That still exists, that isn't like, owned by Sinclair. So it's one of those things where, like, there should be better things than NPR performing the similar role. But we are where we are. Right. So I'm not going to shit on NPR for that. What I am going to shit on is our topic for today's episode, Frank Fay, the man who invented standup comedy. And before I get into that, I want to plug a fundraiser that we are doing here at behind the Bastards to help out the Portland Defense Fund. This is a bail fund. It started out, I mean, it's earlier iterations started out to help people who had been arrested in the 2020 protest. They still do help protesters, but their primary job is people get arrested. They're usually homeless and indigent. They are usually people with no resources. And the defense fund doesn't just help them get bailed out. And often this is people need like literally like a hundred bucks that they just don't have. Number one, when people are accused of crimes, if they're out of jail while they are fighting the charges, they. Their odds of not going to prison are vastly higher. The defense fund helps basically everybody. They do not provide bail funds to people who are accused of domestic violence for some reasons that are probably obvious to people. But they help a lot of people who literally no one else is looking out for. That's what the Portland Defense Fund is and we are trying to raise money for them because they are out of it. If you go to if you just type in donorbox Defense Fund PDX into Google it will take you to the defense fund fundraiser. That's donor Box Defense Fund pdx. And another way you can help is you can venmo them at defensefundpdx. So you know, please send some money, help them out. I donate every year. They're a 501C so it's like a tax. You can write it off too, like it's an actual charitable organization. They're legit. I know the people who run it. Please help them out. This is an iHeart podcast.

[Unknown]

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meats World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest level snack and he traded it for a Mott's Applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed. And that's why Mott's no Sugar Added Applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples packed in a super easy pouch. Perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car, or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C and kids love them. Win, win. Make sure your kid wins. Snack time with Mott's Real Apples make real good applesauce. Learn [e-mail] this episode is Brought to.

[Robert Evans]

You by Hendrix Chin. I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, host of the podcast Brainstuff, where we are serious about curiosity, and so is Hendrix. Their signature gin is infused with rose and cucumber, and their master distiller is always crafting limited releases that riff on those flavors so that you can create something new. Hendricks is the refreshingly curious choice for marvelous summer cocktails. To learn more about Hendrix and to find more cocktail recipes, visit hendrixgin.com U.S. drink responsibly.

[Danielle Fishel]

Hendrix gin, 44% alcohol by volume 2025.

[Robert Evans]

Imported by William Gratton Sons Incorporated, New York, New York. All right, let's talk about a real piece of shit. Are you ready to talk about a piece of shit, Andrew?

[Andrew T]

We talk about a good thing for 10, 15 seconds.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, 15 seconds of a good thing. That helps a lot of people who literally no one else is looking out for in the entire world, because the homeless are, again, the vast majority of people who get arrested. And, yeah, not Frank Fay, although he is. He's like, a rich homeless person. Right. One of the things about Frank is that he refuses to have a house or an apartment. For most of his life, he only lives in nice hotels. So, like.

[Andrew T]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

Not really homeless, but, like, literally doesn't have a home. Right. He's just. He's just staying in nice hotels because that's the kind of life he prefers to live. And it makes sense based on his backstory. Right. He, like, he never has a stable place. Right. Like, he and his family are, like, living on the road. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So in the late nineteen teens, when Frank Fay is establishing himself as the biggest name in vaudeville and the biggest name in, like, live performing in New York City, another person exists. There's two people in the world at this point in time, and one of them is a young girl named Ruby Stevens. And while Frank is kind of making a name for himself, Ruby is living through one of the worst childhoods I have ever read about. Right. Ruby had been born in 1907, so she's quite. Quite a bit younger than Frank Fay, and she was the fifth child of Catherine Ann and Byron Stevens. Both families seem to have come from some degree of, like, privilege. It's unclear to me how if they were, like, rich or it's just because they've been in America from, like, almost Mayflower days or right around then. Right. So they're like old America and they know their pedigree, but I don't think. I don't know how much money they actually have. That part's a little Unclear to me. It may have been that like they used to be more blue, bloody, and they just kind of ran out of money. That happens a lot. But it seemed like she was on track for a more normal life until in 1911, when she is four, a drunk passenger falls off the streetcar she's on with her pregnant mother. And he pulls her mother down basically. And she goes into early labor after falling off the streetcar and dies from sepsis. Right. So just a horrible freak streetcar accident, like really pretty fucked up. So that's traumatic, right? You know, watching this happen as a four year old and then being without your mom and her dad. This is 1907 or 11. Her dad had been a drinker. And boy, having your wife and unborn kid die in a streetcar accident does not make you slow down the drinking in 1911. So he takes what I think we can all agree is an understandable, healthy reaction and becomes a destructive alcoholic and abandons his family to dig the Panama Canal. Right, sure. Tale as old as time. We've all been there once or twice, right? You know.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

That's where you and I met Andrew, digging the Panama Canal. And they kept yelling at us, there's already a canal. Stop digging holes. But we said, fuck you. You know, I won't do what you tell me.

[Andrew T]

I mean, you were really, you had your mindset on Canal 2 and Canal 2.

[Robert Evans]

Electric boogaloo.

[Andrew T]

Very admirable.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, we're gonna make it even bigger and we're gonna kill even more guys from fucking malaria.

[Andrew T]

Malaria 2.

[Robert Evans]

So he goes to the Panama Canal and like everyone who goes to dig in the Panama Canal, he dies horribly almost immediately. Right? That's what digging the Panama Canal is. You are signing up to die from a mosquito or get drowned in fucking wet concrete. Right. If you wann more about that sort of thing, listen to. Wait, is it the Panama Canal or was it the Hoover Dam? In the song the Highwaymen, one of the two. Either way, listen to the song the Highwaymen by the Highwayman.

[Andrew T]

Listen, just think of any major work.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, he was a dam builder. He was a dam builder. Yeah, sorry.

[Andrew T]

Okay. Including Modern Times though.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Andrew T]

It's made by a crime against humanity. There's no way to do it without committing a crime against humanity.

[Robert Evans]

You're gonna have to kill a certain number shitload of people, right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So yeah, he leaves Ruby and her siblings orphaned, but he abandons them before he orphans them, so it's fine. So she grows up in a series of foster situations. She is separated from her siblings right away she is bullied horribly as a little girl because she's an orphan and little kids are fucking psychopaths. To quote another great standup comedian, Donald Glover. They're little Hitlers, right? They're like, oh, look, a little girl who lost her whole family. Let's kick her ye. So Ruby comes to hate school. Not surprising. The one thing she has going for her is that one of her older sisters who's a young adult, or I think she actually thinks she's probably 16 or 17, but that's as good as being an adult in this day and age was a vaudeville dancer, right? And so Ruby gets really interested in entertainment and her sister helps her kind of get into theater. She drops out of school at age 14 and starts working. And again, you're basically an adult at 14 at this socioeconomic level, right? This is not just the us you're legally an adult in a lot of Europe at this point in time. And by age 16, she is a chorus girl in a nightclub. So there's, you have to assume some like people taking physical advantage of her. We call this pedophilia today. I think that's fair to call it then. But also that's not what people would have seen it as, right? They would see her as an adult, right? Not to say that that's not still fucked up. That's just the way things were back then. This is 1923 when she starts working as a chorus girl in a nightclub. So she is getting started in her showbiz career. While Frank Fay is kind of like, he is near the peak of his fame and prestige, right? Like he is selling out. This is right before he has his 10 week run at the Palace. So he hasn't, like, he hasn't quite hit his peak yet, but he's rising to his peak. And so at the time she is starting as a chorus girl, she would see him as like one of the big. This is one of the major stars, right, in her field.

[Andrew T]

This is the guy.

[Robert Evans]

This is the guy. He's got a lot of power. He's, you know, she doesn't want to be exactly doing what he's doing, right. But like she would see him as someone to look up to because of the level of success that he's had. He can do something for her, he can make her career, right. Obviously. So, you know, there's a number of things that are potentially we can see unhealthy about the dynamic that's going to form, although it's not going to go where you'd expect it to. For a while, Ruby was stuck at the middle rung of her field. She's a good dancer, she's constantly working, right. And in order to make extra cash, she moonlights as a dance instructor for gay and lesbian speakeasies, which is pretty cool. Like this is, by the way. Ruby becomes Barbara Stanwyck. This is her initial name. She's cool with the gays, which is nice given this period of time. She initially becomes acquainted with Frank fay in the mid-1920s, probably right around the time he has that big ten week stand at the palace, thanks to her friendship with a guy named Oscar Levant. And Oscar Levant is a pianist who had performed many times with Faye and become one of his friends. In the mid and late 20s, she starts doing better and better, right? She gets recognized, she starts getting acting gigs. And by kind of like the mid-20s, she is performing in Broadway shows. And because she is now becoming a star in her own right, she's kind of a small star now, while Frank's a big one. But you need a better name than Ruby, whatever the fuck her last name was, because it's forgettable, right? So she picks the stage name Barbara Stanwyck. Now she falls in love first with one of her co stars, a man with the incredible name, Rex Cherryman. The two break up in early 1928. And there's kind of a will they, won't they thing here going on for a while. Maybe they'll get back together. But then he dies of sepsis during a sea trip to Europe to perform. Because that's just how people died back then.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, you know, that's just what went down.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, Sepsis. I hardly know sis. Yup. So he's dead as shit, she's sad as shit. And then Levant tries to cheer his friend up by introducing her to his other friend, Frank Fay, thinking the two would hit it off. They did not. In fact, they seemed to hate each other at first. And in Ruby's case at least, this is with good reason, because Frank is immediately attracted to Barbara Stanwyck, who. She's like young at this point, right? Like she's like just barely 20, something like that. What the fuck? What is this, 1928? She was born in 1907. So she's 21 years old, right. And he's in his, he's almost 40. So there's quite a bit of an age gap between the two of them. But it's also less weird at this period of time and in this industry. Anyway, he immediately has a crush on her. Right. But he doesn't want to admit that and flirt with her. And she thinks he's attractive, but he starts by negging her. Right. He's an early practitioner of negging. And I'm gonna quote from Victoria Williams book here. After Faye's show at the Palladium, Levant brought Barbara and Walda, which is one of her friends and colleagues, backstage. They entered Faye's dressing room as he was removing his makeup, and he was charming and beguiling. He announced he was hungry and that as soon as he finished taking off his makeup, he was going to a restaurant where he said, they serve the best food in town. They really know how to serve food in this place. Faye went on a little table in a quiet corner. Soft music and it's like he's kind of setting her up. Barbara was ready to accept the invitation when the dressing room door opened and in walked a beautiful woman who said, are you ready for dinner, Frank? Be with you right away, Faye said. As he put on his coat, he turned to his guest and said, you must try this place. The food is really delicious. And he, like, sets this up. He's, like, really making her think that they're going to go out together. He's talking about it like that. And he has set it up with this other lady ahead of time, knowing he was going to meet her and knowing that Levant is trying to hook them up. He'd probably. He'd seen her on stage, so he knew that he was into her. He sets this up specifically to pull the rug out from under her. Cause he's an asshole, right? Yeah, he's such a dick. And in fact, as he leaves with this other lady, he stops and turns back to Barbara and says, you should come back and see me again sometime, and then goes off on a date with this other woman. Now, this is a transparent ploy. He's trying to make her, like, desperate. He's trying to, like, you know, it's obvious what he's trying to do. Right?

[Andrew T]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

And Barbara doesn't bite. Right. In fact, she doesn't do anything. She doesn't call him. She doesn't, like, approach him again, although she doesn't do anything to avoid contact with him either. Right. Like, she doesn't do either of those things. So, you know, she's not, like, falling for it, but she's also not being like, fuck this guy entirely.

[Andrew T]

Right. It's not working, but it's not not working.

[Robert Evans]

Right. And I think this is part of what attracts Frank is that she doesn't fall for the bait. And so he calls her directly a few days later and is like, hey, do you want to meet me for dinner? Right? So she kind of wins. And this is, I love Barbara Stanwyck. She says, thank you. Yes, absolutely. That sounds great. I'll meet you at, you know, whatever restaurant at whatever time, Right? And they set up a date, and she stands his ass up. So you can see there's a degree to which it sounds like these two might be kind of made for each other. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah, that's pretty good, actually.

[Robert Evans]

So she expects him to call her after this and be, like, pissed off. Right? That's kind of what she had been hoping. But Faye, again, he takes things in stride, and he maintains radio silence. So neither calls the other for two weeks. And then Barbara talks to their mutual friend Levant and is like, hey, could you call Frank and invite him to dinner? And I'm gonna show up at the dinner, but don't. You know, you don't need to tell him that. So Frank asks his friend, who else is gonna be there? And Levant doesn't lie. And he's like, well, Barbara Stanwyck's gonna be there. And so as soon as Frank hears that, he hatches play. He says, yeah, I'll be there. We'll all have a dinner together. And. And then he no shows again. So at this point, Barbara might have been. Seems to be, like, kind of veering towards, fuck this guy. But then for the next two weeks, wherever she shows up for dinner or lunch or at, like, a bar or whatever, whenever she shows up to, like, watch a performance, he's there. He's always there, everywhere she winds up going, and he's always there with a different beautiful woman, right? No matter where she goes. There's Frank Fay, and he's always on a date. And she doesn't learn this until later. But Frank, he's got a lot of connections, and he has a lot of money. He's been both, I think, probably paying people to stalk her and also just, like, using. Talking to other people he knows to, like, figure out where she's going and scheduling dates with random women for the sole purpose of, like, making her watch him make out with other people, like, so they're not in a relationship. And this is already one of the most toxic relationships I've ever heard of.

[Andrew T]

I mean, I guess this is juicy. It's so bonkers.

[Robert Evans]

It's so nuts. And, like, Barbara is the good guy in this, but she's definitely. There's some toxicity coming from her hair, too, right? So After a couple of weeks, he shows up at a fancy restaurant when stuff. Stanwyck and Levant are about to have dinner, I think with a couple of mutual friends. And he sits down at the table and he and Barbara immediately start insulting each other, right? They just start going to town at each other, you know, like letting out all of this, like, frustration over this couple of weeks of fucking around. And eventually their friend Levant, who has judged the vibe properly, stops them and is like, you two obviously wanna fuck. Will you just do it already and stop with this bullshit? Like, I know you both, like, you're clearly into each other and you're just both toxic psychos. Stop it. Just get laid, you know, and it works. Levant, he called it. They're like, yeah, you know what? Fuck it, why not? Let's do it. And so they start dating, right? They start going out. They start, you know, banging the nasties, you know, bumping uglies, twiddling the diddlestick. What? Sophie, Sophie, you can't say sex or fucked on a podcast. Will get arrested.

[Andrew T]

That's true. That is true. The code, there's a hays code.

[Robert Evans]

What the fuck is it called? Yeah, yeah. So they start noodling the whirlpool, so to speak. They start dating and she falls head over heels in love with Frank, right? Very, very quickly. You know, once they're actually. They drop the pretense to start seeing each other. And he seems to fall in love as well. They are both obsessed with each other. And in Barbara's case, she's obsessed with him enough to the point that like, she is willing to give up her career. And she at this point is fairly big, right? Like she is now a major name on a marquee. She's getting some pretty juicy. She's not quite a leading lady yet, but she's getting some really juicy, like Broadway roles, right? And she tells openly, like, I'm willing to kind of give up my career in order to be like a full time wife. Right? And that made sound. Cause she's obviously very good. She's very dedicated to her career. You have to think in terms of making sense of this. This is a girl who lost her entire family very young and has never had one. Has never had that kind of emotional stability.

[Andrew T]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

So she, I think, and that's what her biographer writes. It's basically she is desperate for that kind of stability at this point. It matters more to her than this career that she's got now. Frank is an alcoholic. This should not be surprising to anyone. It's not an uncommon situation for a major performer today, and it certainly was not back then. They start their relationship when he's sober, right? I mean, he's an alcoholic because he had gone sober because it was causing him problems, right. Even during the height of his time at the palace, he misses shows semi regularly. They'll have to cancel suddenly because he's too sick from getting fucked up. So during one of their initial dates, no one at the table is allowed to drink whenever they show up with a group. Because Frank isn't drinking, right? And that's the kind of guy he is. It's like no one else at the table can be drinking if I'm not drinking. And this is one of those things. Also, he's got an entourage. So whenever they're hanging out or traveling around, it's never just Frank or Frank and Barbara. And it's Frank and Barbara and his personal barber and his manicurist and his songwriter and his pianist and his composer and his tailor and his secretary. Like, he literally travels with these people. Most of the places that he goes now he's sober initially, but he periodically will fall off the wagon. And when he does, he will go on days long binges. Hours or days and hours long is a short one. Sometimes he'll be drinking for days. But all of his binges in the same way, with him staggering to St Patrick's Cathedral to confess his sins. For an idea of how committed a drunk this guy was when he was drinking, I want to read you the text of a poem that he kept on him at all times while traveling. The wonderful love of a beautiful maid and the staunch true love of a man. The love of a baby unafraid, which hath existed since life began. But the greatest love, the love of love, transcending even that of a mother, is the tender, the passionate, the infinite love of one drunken bum for another. Pretty good poem Snaps. Yeah, it kind of hit. So Barbara would have been aware, number one, there's stories about this guy's drinking, right? He's been arrested a bunch of times. He's been in tons of fights. He is famous in the 20s for being an out of control alcoholic. That's not easy, right?

[Andrew T]

Like you could buy cocaine at the store.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, you could buy cocaine at the store. And this guy's a famous alcoholic. That's like being a famous beer lover in Wisconsin, right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

You know, we don't have the technology to be an alcoholic the way this man is. Now. This guy is a Quint from Jaws level drinker.

[Andrew T]

It's like having a coke problem at Studio 54.

[Robert Evans]

It's like, right, right, yeah. It's like the fucking bathroom attendant at CBGB's being like, hey man, I think you might be doing too much blow. Yeah, it's like John DeLorean sitting you down about your coke problem. So Barbara would have been aware that this 37 year old man she'd started seeing at 21 had a checkered past. For one thing, he'd already been divorced three times. His first marriage was to a fellow vaudeville star. And it seems to have ended two years after the marriage due to infidelity. Because he cheats on her. A bunch of probably one of the people he cheats on her with is his second wife who divorces him after two months. That's a bad marriage. Due to again rampant infidelity. Within three months of their divorce being made official, Frank is jailed for refusing to pay alimony. So his third marriage is his first wife who he marries again and he makes her quit her because she's also like a performer. He makes her quit her career in entertainment after they get married for the second time and then the two split up again immediately because again, he cheats on her constantly. So not a good husband. And it's not just the cheating. He also has a tendency to get crazy drunk, fly off the handle and beat the shit out of his partners. He is very physically abusive. He is again noted as being a wife beater in the 20s when like as long as you're just like slapping her. That's not even considered spousal abuse back then. Right? Like he is abusive for the era. Like guys who are putting their wives in the hospital are sitting him down and being like, man, you gotta cool it, you know, like that's the level of bad husband this man is.

[Andrew T]

The time really puts a lens on it. It's just like, oh man.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, like Jonathan Wifebeater, the man who coined the Wifebeater shirt, sitting this guy down and talking him, he's a shitty husband. And even outside of. And again, he's not just beating women, he assaults everybody. He loves assaulting people. He particularly is abusive to women. But this is just also generally a physically violent man. Right. I think we've established that now. He's not a stable guy. He's been arrested. He's one of the first drunk drivers. It's not even illegal to have a drink. You can have a cocktail in your hand. Drinking in the 20s and he's getting arrested for drunk driving. It's nuts how drunk a driver this guy is.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

He had also already, again, at the height of. Right. At this period of time, there's weeks where he's making 300 grand in a week in modern money. He's already declared bankruptcy several times. You know, some of that's the alimony. Right. Some of that's because he refuses to buy a home or live anywhere but luxury hotels. Right. Barbara knows all of this. That is important to note. Right. I'm not, again, the abuse that he is going to do over the course of the relationship. I'm not saying that that's. I'm not mitigating that at all. But she is aware of all of this when she starts the relationship. Right. Like, she does go into this with her eyes open. Obviously, she's very young. You know, there's a power imbalance here. But she's heard of him. Right. None of this is a mystery. She also knows that he gambles uncontrollably when he's on a bender, which is another reason for all of the bankruptcies. For whatever reason, in spite of all of this, Barbara Stanwyck really does fall for this guy. And I think, again, a lot of it is that he does give her this sense of emotional stability that she's got a center to her world. Right. She's never had a home in the sense of another person that she belongs with before. And that's just. I mean, that's the most intoxicating thing in the world, really. Right. I think we can all understand that, especially if you're someone who's never had that. Like, she will do anything to keep this in her life. So they get engaged and then they almost immediately get unengaged. And I'm gonna quote from an article on Stanwyck published by Meredith Grau here. When the duo argued, they argued tooth and nail and hammer. It was during one of their many pointless but explosive arguments that they temporarily broke up. Faye took a trip to St. Louis on a two month engagement. And Barbara devoted herself to burlesque, evaded friends and became a near ghost. Burlesque would end. And that burlesque is a show, right? Like, it's not burlesque. That's like an actual play. Burlesque would end its Broadway run as a local triumph on July 14, but not before Faye would fake a breakdown just to drag Barbara to his feigned bedside and pop the question. So that's a summary of what happened. It actually makes things sound up less fucked up than they were. So here's the whole story. So they break up, right? She goes off and is a huge success. This is like. It's a Book of Mormon level hit. This is the biggest thing on Broadway. She's on Broadway for months, then she's touring around the country. She's the leading lady in this show. This is a huge fucking deal, right? And Faye is continuing to perform, but, like, he is. They're separated, and he just starts calling her almost every night, talking about how he's. He's filled with grief. He can't stand it. He thinks he's gonna kill himself. And he always is drunk. He's. He's fallen off the wagon. He's telling her, like, I can't stop drinking. I'm destroying myself because you're not here anymore, right? Like, I can't stand to be without you. And one night, one of Frank's. One of their mutual friends calls Barbara and he's like, hey, man, Frank is. I've never even seen him like this. Like, he is so drunk, right? In such a bad way. He can't work. He can't even sleep anymore, right? Like, we got to do something. He's going to die. You know, Like. Like this guy frames it as, like, this is deathly serious. We had you. You got to help me do something to save Frank. So she's like, is he on the phone? Like, can. Can he come to the phone now? And their friend puts Frank on the phone, and Frank gets on the phone and he just sounds ruined, right? Just absolutely, like, barely can talk drunk. He tells her his heart's broken, that, like, he's just ready to die because he can't live without her. And Barbara's resolve crumbles. And she tells him, if you can sober up, I'll get engaged to you again. The next moment, as soon as she says this, his voice changes. He sounds sober because he hasn't been drunk at all this whole time. It's all been fake. Every one of these calls, he's been faking it, right? He never fell off the wagon, at least as far as we know. And he's immediately just sobers his voice up and says, all right, well, in that case, why don't you get on a train tomorrow and we'll get engaged? You know, take a train to me and we'll get engaged and we'll get married right away. Jesus Christ, man.

[Andrew T]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah. Just the. Mmm. That's the good, toxic, abusive relationship, Stu. We love to see it. We don't love to see it.

[Andrew T]

And you know, what a performance.

[Robert Evans]

It is a great. I mean, look man, he's not a bad actor. Just the swings.

[Andrew T]

God, that's so fucked up.

[Robert Evans]

Bad husband, bad fiance, bad person, sure, but not a bad actor. You know who else will lie about destroying themselves with alcohol in order to get married to Barbara Stanwyck? I don't know. Probably Blue Apron. I doubt Lasik would, but Blue Apron might. Here's Ads.

[Unknown]

The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's Big three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off the season, iHeart presents the Big Three basketball playoffs this Sunday at 3pm Eastern. The remaining four teams battle it out for the right to make the Big three Championship in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the Big three Monster Energy Celebrity game where your favorite stars compete in big three three on three basketball. Then the first of two semi final games features Dwight Howard and the LA riot taking on Montrez Harrell and Dr. J's first place Chicago triplets. The finale will see popular Miami 305 with stars MVP Michael Beasley and Lance will make youe Dan Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas Power, who finished the season winning five straight weeks to capture second place. Can Glenn Rice, Greg Monroe and Paul Millsap stop Miami's physical assault? Or will Miami and Beasley put an end to Dallas winning ways? Who will make it to the Big Three championship? This no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3pm Eastern, 12 Pacific only on CBS.

[F]

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[Unknown]

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[Robert Evans]

Listen to High Key, a new weekly podcast. You better listen. That's literally the definition of being an Aries Moon. Just one a little spicy off Comet.

[Andrew T]

That's all it takes.

[Robert Evans]

Everyone loves me at the Cancer. And then the Aries comes out and they said, who the is that?

[Unknown]

No, you're gonna come for me being.

[Robert Evans]

An Aries and you have a sag Moon. Get outta here. But I'm a Capricorn rising, so that honestly balances it out and makes me more likable. Okay, that is your Capricorn talking.

[Unknown]

Listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Robert Evans]

Ah, we're back. Which sponsor do you think would lie about destroying their body and brain with alcohol in order to keep Barbara Stanwyck in love with them? I think.

[Andrew T]

I mean, obviously any of the mattress ones.

[Robert Evans]

Any of the mattress. Oh, my God. Casper. Yeah.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Mm.

[Andrew T]

Socks.

[Robert Evans]

Casper actually would kill themselves drinking in order to make Barbara Stanwyck regret dumping them. That's right.

[Andrew T]

It's not a lie. It's a way of life.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. It's just how Casper rolls, you know, that's why they're a ghost. They already did it. So he's just lied to her the way it was. It's written in the biography Williams wrote. Barbrook is kind of aware that he must have been lying, but I don't know if she is or isn't. I don't know if she gets fooled by this initially. Whatever is the case, she takes a train to him, they get engaged again, and they get married. Right. Maybe she was aware, but she just was in love with this guy and she just needed this in her life. Right. I think that's probably what's going on here.

[Andrew T]

I mean, I think from the outside of a lot of toxic relationships, too, it is just like this thing where it's like a little bit yes, a little bit no. It feels like people kind of know, but can't bring themselves to really confront it. And that's how it is.

[Robert Evans]

No, and also with all of these toxic relationships and with all of these celebrity relationships and shit, that seems so poisonous. There's gotta be good stuff here too, right? There's something she's getting that she loves. And there are good times, right? And there's aspects of him. Again, there's a reason why he's so charming and beloved, right? Like, he is. There's. She's getting something out of this. And I'm not saying that to, like, blame her on it or something, but, like, you have to assume this is not. We're not. Like, it's not just bad stuff, right? It never is. Otherwise, why would she be so committed to this? Right? That's the way. Abusive relationship and just toxic. Even when it's not abusive and it's just like codependent or stuff, there's always something there that keeps one or both people coming back, right? So she finishes the current run of her touring show and then she retires. Well, she actually gets sick right at the end of it. But either way, she finishes burlesque and she retires. Now, this is not a full retirement, right? It means that she no longer has an independent career. Faye is touring on his own, like, he's doing, you know, the Frank Fay show, basically, and she starts performing as part of his shows right? Now, she makes a lot of money doing this. She is independently getting paid, and she is getting paid very well. The equivalent of probably. Probably a million or more a year, right? Or somewhere in that, like, at least high six figures. She's. She's made. She's making very good money, right? But what she's also doing is she has clearly. I don't know if it's that he asked her to play second fiddle to his ambition or she was just immediately willing to. It's probably a little bit of both, right? That he wanted her. But also, I don't think it's entirely that because he is actually really supportive of her having a career. I do think her attempting to quit is largely just her really wanting to commit to the relationship. I think that's a big part of it because of some of the stuff that's gonna happen next. So this is a little more complicated, right? I don't wanna. It's not just him being like, I can't stand to have her be a big star, or I can't stand to have her have a life outside of me. She is really motivated by the idea of dedicating herself fully to this relationship. That is part of what's happening here. As the 20s are kind of starting to come to an end, Frank is looking out at the entertainment landscape, and he's a smart guy and he's an innovative guy. He understands. He's got good instincts, right? And he sees that vaudeville's days are numbered. Right. This is not going to be. It's already starting to fade. He can kind of see there's not as much money coming in. There's not as much audience. There's more entertainment out there. Right. Like, vaudeville's days are kind of over. And he can see that the traveling variety acts and these big stage productions that, you know, cost a lot of money and involve a lot of people that have dominated entertainment all his life are not going to be around forever. The radio is a bigger thing. Moving pictures are increasingly significant. And we're coming to the end of the roaring twenties. So the bottom's about to fall out of the economy, which is going to make those big productions, those big, huge touring shows and these big elaborate stage shows a lot harder to afford, both for the people putting them on and for people to buy tickets to. Right, right. So he makes a bold decision right before the depression hits to break up with his production company. He, like, breaks a contract to leave them. And this is the number one vaudeville production company. They have the ability to blacklist him from, like, the industry almost. Right. They don't do this. But that's the thing he's risking. He takes a major risk to leave them because he sees that, like, the bottom's about to fall out, and he wants to get into something that he can make work in this new era. So he starts performing totally independently with a skeleton crew of some stagehands and a couple other entertainers and his wife, and they're doing longer and longer sets. And now he is being up there for something that is like a Netflix special or a full hour type deal. He's doing full standup routines effectively in something that's very close to a modern sense. And again, he's a major pioneer. He starts doing something that's kind of weird. Al adjacent or like Tom Lehrer adjacent. Tom Lehrer, who just died, the greatest musical comedian of all time, also one of the greatest mathematicians of all time. Also invented the Jello shot. Incredible man. Tom Lehrer. Yes. Inventor of the Jello shot so that he could smuggle alcohol into, like, army gatherings. Amazing, man. Just so cool.

[Andrew T]

That makes sense.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So. And he's not the only. There's another musical comedian right around the same time who's also an influence on, like, Tom Lehrer and, you know, later guys. But he is one of the first, like, musical parody artists. And it's interesting. The way he does this is a little. It's not the same as what, like, Lara and Al are doing. It's really interesting. He'll start with a popular song and he'll get his musicians to start playing like T for Two. That's one of his big bits. Which is like. You've heard of T for Two at this point. It's like a hit song. It's like the Call Me maybe of its day. Or the wet ass pussy of its day. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yep. Those are the two songs.

[Robert Evans]

Those are the two songs. The only two I've heard of. Jesus Christ. What? It is kind of like wet ass pussy. Cause it's smutty, right? Like it is about. It's smutty for the day, right? Cause it's like about a date, right? So every couple of lines he'll start playing the song and he'll start singing it and then he'll stop after like a line and he'll break down what doesn't make sense or is secretly absurd in the song.

[Andrew T]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

Here's a recent example.

[Andrew T]

He's cinema sensing this line.

[Robert Evans]

He's cinema sensing it. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Tea for two and two for tea. Ain't that rich? Here's a guy that has enough tea for two, so he's gonna have tea for two. I notice he doesn't say a word about sugar. Comedy was easy anyway. Whatever. I assume lots of it's in the delivery. But you see what he's doing. He's going through the lyrics of this song and then he's like riffing on it, right? He's making fun of bits about it. And I think that's interesting because the type of bit that this is is so modern. You brought up cinemasins. Cause initially it was like, oh, he's kind of a proto Tom Lehrer or Weird Al. But honestly. Cause they're actually doing full parody songs. A better comparison is like modern YouTube videos where like not just songs but like the red letter stuff Red Letter media got famous for doing where you're like break down a movie. You're like going through like a whole movie or a whole. And you're like breaking it down piece by piece and talking in granular detail about like, what if this movie or video game or whatever doesn't make sense? Like is like the analog version of like most of YouTube's big creators are doing now. Right. I think that's such so interesting to me. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

He is just reflexively a very innovative entertainer.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, that's genuinely so odd. But also it is like because the source material is so old, it's so funny to hear how corny even the jab is.

[Robert Evans]

Yes. It's T for two. How many jokes can you make about that shit, man? Yeah, yeah, that's his fucking hour and a half long video breaking down why the Phantom Menace Sucks His Tea for two.

[Andrew T]

So no sugar, eh?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, no sugar, huh? So yeah, that's a very creative idea. And again, you gotta think of how weird it would be in 1929 to hear like, oh yeah, this guy's gonna come on stage and sing a popular song and instead he's like making fun of the song. Like the idea that like you wanna hear this guy make fun of a song slowly. Like that's a weird act in this period of time, but it works. This is like one of his most popular bits. And again, he's just moving from success to success at this point up to kind of like the start of the Great Depression. And really right before the Great Depression, I think we're like in 29 here. Like right before things really fall off a cliff, Hollywood starts calling his wife, right? Because Barbara, she's made a big name for herself even though she's technically, quote unquote, retired. Everyone knows who Barbara Stanwyck is. And these, you know, we're now in the talkie era. Hollywood is looking for new leading ladies and people, you know, there's talent scouts who go out to Broadway. They've seen her. A lot of studios are calling and she turns them all down. Like she's getting like, we will make you a movie star. Like, we want to give you like picture deals. Like, there's money for you here. And she's like, nah, my husband likes it over here. He doesn't wanna live in California. And my marriage comes first. And she just says no over and over again to all of these major studio agents. Like fucking studio heads are trying to beat down her door. And she won't do it. She's not at all tempted because that's not what her husband wants to do right now. Eventually the head of a major studio or an agent for a major studio figures out how to wear her down, which is, they go to Frank and they're like, hey, we wanna sign you and your wife. You know, you each get a one picture deal, basically, right? We wanna try you both out. And to be fair, it's kind of a no brainer. I'm sure they're not not interested in Frank cause he's one of the biggest performers of the day. It's pretty obvious from like a studio position. Well, these are two of the most famous, popular people on the stage. Let's see if they could be movie stars. Right. Invite em both. And they agree, right? I think it's just a matter of the money is so good and, you know, vaudeville's kind of fall and yeah. They both decide, all right, let's give it a try. And it's when they move to Hollywood that the problems really start. And they start with Barbara, because she is a horrible auditioner. She's terrible at auditioning. She doesn't know how to really do it. And so she is supposed to be in this Frank Capra film. And she goes in for the audition and she bombs it. And Capra's like, Frank Capra calls her a porcupine, which is some weird ass 20 sexism. I don't fully understand what that's supposed to mean. Sure. But it's like an insult for a woman. I don't understand why. But he calls her a porcupine. And this is actually one of Frank's very few good moments and very few really, actually surprisingly supportive partner moments. So the studio that Capra was working with that she has this deal with, and she's bombed this audition, he. He calls Frank Capra. He gets him on the phone personally because he's a star and he can do that. And he's like, look, I know you saw my wife. I know you didn't like the live performance. I need to show you a test screening of her. And I think it was her doing some lines from burlesque or something like that. Because if you didn't think she'd. She must have just bombed the audition. Cause she's great. Trust me, she's great. And Frank is such a big name that Capra's like, okay, I'll do it. And he watches this test. Frank Fay brings over this test screening. And as soon as Capra actually sees her performing on stage, he's like, oh, my God, I'm a fucking idiot. This woman is one of the most talented actors of her generation, of any generation. And he casts her immediately. And that's actually like a really good. That's why I'm saying he's not anti her having a career. Weirdly enough. This is gonna cause problems for them later. But he is really supportive at the start. She gets her movie career started because he goes to the mat after she bombs an audition and makes sure she gets the job. So that's one good thing that Frank Fay ever did in his fucking life. There you go. Now, this is not a Barbara Stanwyck podcast. And I'm not gonna do. I'm not gonna talk in detail about it.

[Andrew T]

Leave a comment or write in if you want Robert's Barbara Stanwyck podcast.

[Robert Evans]

Well, she did murder those children. But in her defense, those kids were coming right for her. You know, who did it? Who amongst us hasn't killed a couple of kids, right? You know, it happens. It happens. So by the mid-30s, Barbara Stanwick, as soon as she gets this movie, she's in this, she's a huge hit. She's just immediately a massive star. Her career is skyrockets from there on up. By the mid-30s, she's one of the leading ladies in pre war Hollywood. She is just massive. She's fucking great. She's really good at this. It becomes clear to everybody and she is just like on a rocket ship to success from here on out, right? That's the Barbara Stanwyck story. Things go less well for Frank Fay after this point in time. His first movie because they get this one picture deal. They each get a picture. His first movie does pretty well, it's a modest success. But afterwards he just doesn't catch on as an actor. He's just not, for whatever reason, I don't know why, maybe he's picking bad scripts or whatever. It just doesn't work out for him. Right. And it doesn't help that the start of his career trying to be an actor coincides with the Great Depression really hitting, which wipes out a lot of the money that had made his old career possible. So there's not as much money in touring or doing the kind of shows he'd been doing. And movies, you know, are more economical. They make more cause you pay to put em on once and then you keep making money from them, right? So like, you know, it's better a business to be in, but he's just not doing well in it. And eventually the offers kind of just slow to a trickle and stop coming in while Barbara Stanwyck becomes a fucking household name. I'm going to quote from an article by the New in the New York Times. As her star began to shine, Faze dimmed. He drank, was relentlessly abusive towards her and the child Dion they'd adopted. However, not only did she stick by Faye, but she also put his faltering career first. She insisted on introducing herself as Mrs. Frank Fay. We have to wonder what in her needed to stick by Faye way past the obvious expiration date of the marriage. A determination to rebuke the Hollywood gossips prophesying divorce, a stick to your man philosophy, her fear of going out in society, an inability to have sustained friendships with other women. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And also gratitude to Frank for having supported her career at a crucial time. But still, her life was actually in danger because of his violent nature, as was that of little Dion, about whom, it must be said, she didn't seem much concerned. So he's getting increasingly. He had kind of kept himself on a leash. He is off the chain. He's drinking more, he is beating the shit out. He's beating their kid, too, to the extent that, like, again, her life is in danger being with this man. That's how out of control he is kind of at his worst. This isn't consistent. But when he hits rock bottom, that's how bad this is right now. Again, as the New York Times. This is her obituary, noted, she's not a great mom. She's not necessarily putting the kid first, so she's not a hero here. But Frank is definitely the villain. And his physical abuse of Barbara did escalate to the point where, again, she could have killed her. And she does eventually dump his ass in 1935. And at this point, when she leaves him, it seems like he's probably heading towards an early grave. Right. He is increasingly, you know, he's not making money, he's not getting work. He's able to tour some he can do, but it's, like, not the way he had been living. And he can't. Like, he hasn't been reigning in his expenses. So he is broke. Like, he's constantly going broke. He's gambling what he makes. And, yeah, it looks like this is kind of the end, right? And again, if this had been the end, we wouldn't do a behind the bastards on this guy because, like, he's a dick. He's an abusive husband, but, like, that's just not really the bastard story yet.

[Andrew T]

Like, not newsworthy. Exactly. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

If we did an episode on every famous person who was, like, abusive to their spouse. Yeah, like, that's just a different show. Not to minimize that, but it's a different show. We're getting to, like, the wild act of bastardry here. Like, that's. That's what's coming next.

[Andrew T]

So it gets worse than this, folks.

[Robert Evans]

It gets a lot worse. So a big part of why Frank had failed in Hollywood. I said, it's not entirely clear to me why I forgot I had written this part, because there is one really clear reason, which is that he's super anti Semitic, and the heads of most of the major Hollywood studios at this point are Jewish guys. Right. And it's the kind of thing, if his movies had been runaway hits, they probably would have ignored that. Cause they do for other guys, right? Because that's Hollywood. Still do we all know about Mel Gibson, right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

But again, the fact that he's a famous antisemite and that his movies aren't doing great is a big part of what destroys him in Hollywood. And it's very funny to me. There's a quote from one of his peers, Milt Josephberg, who is a Jewish comedian, who said of him, in a business known for its lack of bigotry, he was a bigot. This was no secret, but widely known and well substantiated. So he is just like. That's a big part of like, why he can't get shit working for him in Hollywood. And then the FDR years kick off, right? And Frank starts getting increasingly political. He hates fdr. He calls him a communist. He starts going on these loud rants about the Jewish bankers that he believes are behind all of the country's problems. And behind. It's weird. Like, so the Jewish bankers caused the Depression and also are behind fdr, who's got. Pulled us out of it. What's going on? Anyway, whatever. He's losing his mind on alcohol here too. As his old famous friends increasingly step away from him because he is just. He's made himself into a pariah. It's bad for your career to be associated with Frank at this point. He finds a new friend with someone who understands him. Father Charles Coughlin. Now, we've talked about this guy before on the podcast. Coughlin is a Catholic priest with a far right radio show who is. He is a fascist. He is a proto Nazi. He is one of the guys who's trying to get the US to go fascist. Right? He's probably the most. He is the fucking. He's like Bill O'Reilly mixed with Tucker Carlson. You know, like, he is super influential as a fascist media figure. Coughlin also believed that Jewish bankers were behind every evil in the country. He referred to the New Deal as the Jew Deal. And as a result, he and Frank get along famously. Yeah, like, oh, yeah, it's a match made in heaven right here.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, dope.

[Robert Evans]

Now, you know who else gets along famously with Father Charles Coughlin? I probably shouldn't say that. Here's ads.

[Unknown]

The reviews and ratings are in. And Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off the season, iHeart presents the Big Three basketball playoffs this Sunday at 3pm Eastern. The remaining four teams battle it out for the right to make the Big three championship in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the Big 3 Monster Energy Celebrity game where your favorite stars compete in Big 33 on 3 basketball. Then the first of two semifinal games features Dwight Howard and the LA Riot taking on Montrez Harrell and Dr. J's first place Chicago triplets. The finale will see popular Miami 3OH with stars MVP Michael Beasley and Lance will make you Dan Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas Power, who finished the season winning five straight weeks to capture second place. Can Glenn Rice, Greg Monroe and Paul Millsap stop Miami's physical assault? Or will Miami and Beasley put an end to Dallas winning ways? Who will make it to the Big Three championship? This no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3pm Eastern, 12 Pacific only on CBS.

[F]

Life's messy we're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Anabe, you never have to stress about Messes [e-mail] Discover Anibe Sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, Our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Unknown]

Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech, built in AI tools and seamless performance. Lenovo devices, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster. That's the power of Lenovo with Intel inside. Enjoy flexible financing, rewards on every purchase and free shipping. And students get special offers when you create an [e-mail].

Listen to High Key.

[Robert Evans]

A new weekly podcast. You better listen. That's literally the definition of being an Aries Moon. Just one little spicy off comment, that's all it takes. Everyone loves me at the cancer and.

[Unknown]

Then the Aries comes out and they.

[Robert Evans]

Said who the is that?

[Unknown]

No you're gonna come for me being.

[Robert Evans]

An Aries and you have a sag Moon. Get out of here. But I'm a Capricorn rising, so that honestly balances it out and makes me more likable. Okay, that is your Capricorn talking.

[Unknown]

Listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

Ah, and we're back. I don't know why I make that like, that like sound every. I just, you know, I'm vamping.

[Andrew T]

It's the Post, you know, you just got yourself out of the ad. We just all diligently listened to the ads, bought the thing, and now you're decompressing.

[Robert Evans]

Gotta do it. Yeah. And now we're decompressing and we're hearing about his friendship with Charles Coughlin, right? And just kind of his. This is him. This is him spinning out, right? In the late 30s. Cliff Nesteroff writes, quote, faye struggled in film and radio for the next 10 years. After his divorce from Barbara, his appearances were spotty and mostly unsuccessful. He had made too many enemies and few cared to help him out. Maurice Zoloteau wrote that the self destructive pattern has hampered his career at various times. He's been a vaudeville mc, nightclub comic, radio star and motion picture hero. Faye has been successful in all of these. He has also been a failure in all of these. Faye has been washed up more times than any other big time star, you know, and that's kind of like the state of his career at this point.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

For an idea of like what a famous dick this guy is at this point, I probably should have put this up earlier, but it's very funny. People in Hollywood start telling a joke. This is kind of like while he's still married to Barbara Stanwyck, which Hollywood actor has the biggest prick? And the answer is Barbara Stanwyck, right? Like that's how people are talking about him, right? His career is over. So by the start of the World War II, he is in particularly bad odor because, you know, he's basically a Nazi and we're going to war with those people, right? He is on the side of the America Firsters. He loves Charles Lindbergh and Father Coughlin. So this does not. Nothing. It just seems like he's completely fucking doomed. But just as all seems lost and he is as washed up as washed up can get in 1944, he gets thrown a fucking life preserver, right? And it's thrown by the most esteemed director in Broadway history, Antoinette Perry, who is looking to put together the cast for a new play. Harvey, you ever seen the movie Harvey with Jimmy Stewart. Yep.

[Andrew T]

I have not, actually.

[Robert Evans]

It's a great film. Holds up. Weirdly enough, it was filmed in, like, the 50s. It's written before then. Right. He's doing the stage version in the 40s about, like, mental health. Like, the plot is, like, the guy played by Jimmy Star. I forget what his fucking name is, the character. But the main character is this, like, rich kid. He's, like, the oldest son of, like, a wealthy family. And he sees a giant talking rabbit. And he's constantly talking with it. It follows him around. They're always at the bar, drinking together. Character's name is Elwood, by the way. Elwood. Elwood. You're right. Elwood. Elwood. Doubt. I think something like that. And his high society family and friends are trying to have him institutionalized. Right. Cause he's clearly crazy, right? So they're trying to get him in a mental asylum, basically, for being crazy and seeing this rabbit. And weirdly enough, it still holds up as a good depiction of mental illness. Because the message of it, ultimately, is that actually Elwood's fine. And everyone just needs to understand that he's just different from other people. But he's happy. He's not hurting anybody. He's not in any danger. He just sees a rabbit and that's okay. You know, it's actually got a really modern message about neurodiversity. And just like the Jimmy Stewart version of this movie holds the fuck up. It's a great fucking film. You should watch Harvey. I mean, he's fucking Jimmy Stewart. Great actor, weirdly enough. Great bomber pilot. Retired as a general in the Air force. Flew like 50 missions in World War II. Jimmy Stewart, quite a life.

[Andrew T]

I'm surprised you didn't know that. I don't think I did.

[Robert Evans]

George Bailey. Jimmy Stewart, during World War II, was a bomber pilot. Flew missions over Western Europe. Did the most dangerous job that existed in the American Army. He flew way more missions than he needed to. It's crazy.

[Andrew T]

As you just said that I must have asked the same question on a previous episode of behind the Bastards, because that just flooded me with deja vu.

[Robert Evans]

Weirdly enough, Jimmy Stewart, great actor, killed thousands. Literally killed thousands of people. Fun guy. Anyway, so this is before the Jimmy Stewart version. This is the play. It starts off as a play. The screenplay actually wins a Pulitzer Prize, right? So this is a great screenplay. And Antoinette Perry is casting the very first time this is gonna be on Broadway. And she decides that not only is Frank Fay a good fit for the play, but she wants him to Play the star. He's going to be Elwood. Right. And this is a huge deal. I had said Antoinette Perry is, like, the most famous director in Broadway history. Antoinette. The shortened version of Antoinette is Tony. The Tony Awards are named for this woman. That's who this is. Right. So if she decides this washed up anti Semite is who I want as my leading man, that's who's going to be her leading man. Right. And she's very good at what she does. You know, he's a piece of shit. I'm not happy that he gets this job that reinvigorates his career, but he's really good. Like, he headlines 1800 performances. That's like, for years, this show is on Broadway and then touring. It's a massive fucking hit. And it turns out it makes him rich again, and it turns him into a star again. And so by the very end of World War II, he has gotten a second chance at stardom. Like the kind of second chance that nobody gets when you are as down and out as he is. To wind up being the biggest name on Broadway again after a fall like that, it's nuts.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Now, what would you do if you were disgraced for being a massive bigot and an abusive spouse and went broke and had your career destroyed and then suddenly become rich and famous again? You know, you think probably just kind of try to enjoy it, you know, rebuild your career. Keep quiet, chill out.

[Andrew T]

Maybe learn something about yourself.

[Robert Evans]

Grow. Maybe learn something. Be a better person.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. That's what anyone would do.

[Robert Evans]

He takes a slightly different tactic. He understands that now that he's famous again, he's got influence and prestige and people listen to him. He needs to speak up for the downtrodden, you know, the people that no one else is going to bat for. Right. You know, the people that just have no one else looking out for them, that only he can really, you know, defend and protect. And obviously, this is really noble in 1945. Yeah, 46. There's no one who needs protecting more than Francisco Franco, the fascist dictator of Spain. Now, Franco isn't in any real danger as World War II ends. Obviously, he's fine. Anti Communism immediately is how the US pivots. So he's not. No, it's coming for Franco. But what makes Faye angry, what makes him want to speak out in defense of Francisco Franco, is that so the Union for Theater Workers for Actors, and I think basically everybody who's working in the theater at this point is called Actors Equity. I don't think it's just actors. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But anyway, the SAG for theater workers, it may still be. I don't know a lot about the theater. Whatever it is today, Actors Equity is the union for theater actors, right? And so a number of members of Actors Equity. This isn't an official Actors Equity thing, but a lot of people with Actors Equity in late 1945, held a rally to raise money for a group called Spanish Refugee Appeal. Now, the Spanish Civil War had ended long ago, right? Franco is well in charge, and the Refugee Appeal is number one. They're raising money to support leftists and political dissidents who have had to flee Spain. And they are also begging publicly and trying to get other governments to pressure Franco to stop arresting, torturing and murdering leftists. Right? They're specifically, a big part of it is they are attacking the Catholic Church and trying to shame them because the Catholic Church is. Is actively hunting down and helping to murder leftists, right? Anarchists and the like. So they're. They're unhappy about that and trying to stop it. Nesterhoff writes, quote, fay was furious. He said their criticism was an attack on Catholicism as a whole. Fay demanded Actors Equity investigate each anti Franco member for UN American activity. The House Committee on UN American Activities acted on Faye's suggestion, and the actors were vetted. The New York Times reported that Fay held no brief against any member of Actors Equity for political beliefs. He resented, however, that Equity members should be party to rallies that condemn religious groups. Equity president Burt Littell objected to the political investigation. Equity members have a wide latitude of interests and beliefs that they may practice and advocate as private citizens. Actors Equity stood by Brooks, Darling, Melina and Osado. Those are the people organizing this rally. Rather than expel them from his union, Littell censured Frank Fay for conduct prejudicial to the association or its membership. So he gets Congress to investigate these people for trying to raise money for fucking refugees and beg Franco and the church to stop having people murdered. And he gets them fucking investigated. And to the credit of Actors Equity and the union head, they go after Frank and they're like, no, no, no. You're the one being. They're allowed to do this privately on their own. You are trying to destroy their. Fuck you, man. Yeah, so this, you know, he gets in trouble over this and it's a bad look, especially in 1945. But the fact that the union refuses to back Frank's play doesn't mean no one supported him. There's a lot of right Wing and fat. Just outright fascist Americans who have been kind of biting their tongues all of World War II and are really. They're frustrated that we're allied with the ussr. They're frustrated that we're fighting the fascists. You know, they're real bummed about all of this stuff. And by the end of the war, they've been having to keep quiet for so long that they just are filled to the brim with anger at what side the US Picked in this. There's also a lot of American Francoists who love, you know, what Frank is saying about their favorite dictator who's still alive. And these guys start fascists being the same in every era, immediately mass mailing death threats to Actors Equity and to the guys at Actors Equity, like to the people who had done this rally that Frank had called out. Right? It's a very modern thing. This right wing celebrity starts complaining about a thing he doesn't like, and his fans start threatening to murder people on his behalf. Right. Same as it ever was.

[Andrew T]

Yeah. Pretty standard. Standard stuff, right?

[Robert Evans]

One journalist at the time wrote, under the guise of being deeply pained over the comments about the Catholic Church. These organs of native fascism have been blowing the familiar tunes in all their repulsive cacophony. They say that the issue is religion, but they are no more concerned with religion than were their political masters, the cutthroats of Berlin. Consider Frank Fay himself, the main attraction in the current Whoop Dee Doo. His antisemitism is well known and his numerous brawls on that account are common gossip.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Pretty good.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Pretty well written. Yeah.

[Andrew T]

God, imagine. Imagine a contemporary. Oh, yeah, like journalist being that good.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, unfortunately, hard to. So we can look back on this and say, obviously, like, that's what's happening, right? Like, obviously, this is like a fair description of what he's doing. Right? But like a lot of fascists, Frank was convinced that he was right and that the rest of the world secretly agreed with him. So, drunk on his newfound fame and enraged with frustration at how World War II had ended, he decided to hold a rally in January of 1946 celebrating fascism in all of its guises. Now, that's a bold move in January 1946. But Frank had that special kind of brain damage that God only gives to men who get too famous for standing in front of a crowd and telling jokes. So he figured, there's no way this is gonna backfire on me, right? My career collapsed once because I'm an abusive, bigoted asshole, but it won't happen again.

[Andrew T]

How could It. It never does.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Now if you're a fascist looking to hold a rally in New York City, there's only one group of assholes who suck hard enough to say yes, especially in January of 1946. And those assholes are Madison Square Garden.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I mean, also.

[Andrew T]

You know, that's a tried and true place for we. Nazi rally. We love it there.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah. No, this is completely.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, God, please don't sue us again. Can we make that joke, Sophie? Are we allowed to? No. Maybe we'll bleep it. So Madison Square Garden agrees to host the event, which he calls the Friends of Frank Fay. Let's talk about who those friends are, shall we? Organizing work is handled by the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party, which is nice to see they're working hand in hand, you know?

[Andrew T]

Yep.

[Robert Evans]

Like it's one of those. I've been so bummed when they had their falling out. It's just good to see, you know, two long term friends can come back hood in hand. Hood in hand. Right?

[Andrew T]

This is like some shit. This is like from that fucking Wolfenstein game.

[Robert Evans]

Yes. It's fucking crazy. Like the KKK and the American Nazi Party are like your stagehands and like handling like advertising and shit. Who's speaking? Who's speaking? Tell me. Oh, who? Sophie? So many assholes. Now I should note here that the last big Nazi rally in American history right before World War II, had been held by the German American Bund in Madison Square Garden and involved a bunch of Nazis doing a big rally. Again, Madison Square Garden loves hosting Nazi events, or at least did back then. I'm sure everything's fine in the company now. Prominent speakers at this event included Nazi propagandist Laura Engel and. No, I want to be clear here. I'm not talking about Laura Ingalls. Wild Wing, not the Prayer. Little House of Prayer lady. Different person. But also, didn't she.

[Andrew T]

Very unfortunate.

[Robert Evans]

She's also very right wing, but she's not speaking at this event. They just have very similar names. Laura Ingalls was an award winning female pilot. She's like one of the first, like great female pilots. She is very groundbreaking in that. And then she winds up serving two years in prison because she worked as an unpaid agent of the Nazi government while speaking at America first gatherings and didn't disclose that she was a paid agent of a foreign power. That's what happens to her prior to this. So anyway, I should also note as a fun fact, because I was like, I just saw Laura Ingalls. Because I'm reading old contemporary news articles like, Laura Ingalls, is this the Little House on the Prairie? And so I type into Google, as I do sometimes, was Laura Ingalls a Nazi? And obviously now when you Google, the first thing you get is their fucking AI summary. This is what the AI summary says, says no. Laura Ingalls, the aviator, not the author, was not a Nazi. However, she was a Nazi sympathizer and was convicted of acting as a paid agent for Nazi Germany. And like.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So why are you saying she's not a Nazi? She was paid for act. She was. She went to prison for failing to register as an agent for the German government for speaking at Nazi rallies. We can't call her a Nazi. Really? Google Gemini. But the AI said so. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna call her a Nazi. She's a Nazi. If you go to jail for advocating for the Nazi government secretly without like, and taking their money. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[Andrew T]

Technically not a Nazi.

[Robert Evans]

She's a fucking Nazi. She's a fucking Nazi.

[Andrew T]

These tech bros think this is the sum of the pinnacle of intelligence.

[Robert Evans]

This is what's going to take us to the stars. Fucking AI bullshit. Now another guest at this event was KKK member Joseph Camp. And of course Camp spelled with a K, Camp, if you haven't heard of him, was one of the chief authors of anti Semitic propaganda in the United States at this period of time. He is a massive like Jewish world conspiracy author guy. There's a picture Sophie's gonna show you from contemporary reporting on the event. Who introduces us to another guy at this event who happened to look just like Walt Disney. Like a lot of these guys look exactly like Walt Disney. Like, look at this Walt Disney looking motherfucker with his fucking pencil mustache.

[Andrew T]

Like legit wild.

[Robert Evans]

All Walt Disney looking motherfuckers. And the caption from this, I think this is from the Post article. Another friend of Faye John Geiss, notorious anti Semite and distributor of rathskeller pamphlets back in the Yorktown days. I like that. Friend is in quotes. Friend. Yeah. What does that mean? No, there's quite a lot of reporting. Wrathskeller. You know what? I should have looked that up. Let's look that up right now. Let's do it right now.

[Andrew T]

I will say I forgot what punk venue is called the Rath Skeller, but I hope they're not. I hope it wasn't that kind of punk.

[Robert Evans]

Well, Wikipedia's telling me that it's a name for a kind of Restaurant in German speaking countries.

[Andrew T]

Oh, maybe it was that kind of punk bar.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah, Maybe it is that guy. Yeah, Maybe it's just like a name for a beer garden. Yeah, yeah, that's my guess. My best guess.

[Andrew T]

Yikes. All right.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Cool. Cool guy.

[Andrew T]

Most importantly, cool and moving on.

[Robert Evans]

So there's a lot of reporting left to read through from this event. You can find a lot of articles written about it at the time, and much of it is quite funny. The New York Daily News, who is pretty positive about this event, titles their coverage 19,000 Fae Friends, Jam Garden to Cheer, Anti Red Speech. Now, first off, the actual number's more like 11,000. And a lot of those are protesters who are there to, like, jeer and try to disrupt the event, too. The Daily News was happy to carry water for Faye and included a segment in their review titled deny racial bias. Dr. Emmanuel Josephson, who said he was of Jewish extraction, brought down the house with his attack on communism, labor unions, Karl Marx, Harold Lasky, the New Deal, the State Department, the opa, and the more deadly of the Roosevelt species. So it's not anti Semitic. They've got a Jewish guy. Great. Now, the New York Post, not my favorite publication today, but was a much better publication back then. Right. And their reporting on this is actually pretty good. Right. They are unsparing about how racist this was. Quote, after praising Equity as the finest organization ever put together, Fay said, there is a certain little group coming into Equity, coming not through the stage door, but through the. And here his words slurred and he may have said, either south or back door. They have nothing to offer you but the bad breath of marks. They put on some plays to capture your youth and for God's sake, watch your children. We didn't have that when we were kids, but we've got it now. A Post reporter later asked Fay what plays he was referring to, and he denied he had made the statement. Quoted later coming upon the Post reporter again, he warned him to be careful about the quotation because his address had been recorded. Very much modern, like, I didn't say that. What do you mean? I said that there are plays trying to reach out to. I didn't say that at all when we recorded it, so don't you dare lie to continue. As Faye went along, the clock silently slid past the 1am mark, and spectators by the score literally were sleeping in their chairs. McNabo, too, who's one of the other hosts, too, constantly reminded the audience that every word uttered at the meeting was being recorded and that woe and libel suits awaited those newspapers that printed stories written with smear dripping pins. They don't sue anybody. Right, yeah. Because again, all of the racism is there. This is just a horrible. It's a Nazi rally. He holds a Nazi rally in 1946. And this backfires in every way possible. Right. This does finally destroy his career. He finally doesn't work again. No, he never works again. There are like one of the jokes, I forget exactly who says this, but it's another famous comedian who is like, I saw him walking like holding his own hand down lover's lane. That's how lonely he is at the end of his life. He dies in Santa Monica in 1961 at the age of 69 and is ostensibly unloved, unmourned. Yeah, yeah. That he gets to live in a nice part of the world and longer. Although not that long for a hardcore alcoholic. It's not doing bad. Now I read a lot of George Burns, who's a famous comedian, like talking about this fay for this column. And Burns is a guy who talks a lot about like Fae's talents and what he was good at. But Burns also talks about like all the things that sucked about him. Right. And so here's here in this episode, here's a quote from George Burns on Faye. Late in life, Faye hated Jews, but he was very religious. He used to eat at the Brown Derby and I used to watch just before his food came, I would sit down and start to mention people that are dead. I'd say, Tom Fitzpatrick isn't with us anymore. He'd bless him and say a prayer. I'd mention five or six more people and when his food got cold, I'd leave. And so that's how Burns gets some revenge on him, is he'll just hang out, whatever he's eating and sit down and talk about all the people who have died recently. So that because he knows he's gotta do a little just to ruin his meal. It's a kind of petty. We should all seek to embody.

[Andrew T]

But it's also such a bizarre interaction. Cause it's like you hate this guy. Cause he is an unreformed anti semitic.

[Robert Evans]

Absolutely.

[Andrew T]

But you're still doing banter with him.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, but you're doing it to fuck up his day, you know?

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, I know, but. But it's just like a thing where they still have the type of relationship where there's banter.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Andrew T]

I find that, I mean, listen, I guess, I guess we're just too polarized now. But it's very weird. It's been a minute since I've just had a little joke with a Nazi, is what I'm saying.

[Robert Evans]

Well, and that's one of the many things we like about you, Andrew T. And that is by general best practices, is don't joke around with the Nazis, don't socialize with Nazis, don't argue with Nazis, don't debate them. There are some things you should do to Nazis, but we can't talk about that on the podcast in the current political climate.

[Andrew T]

So, yeah, nothing is being advocated, you.

[Robert Evans]

Know, Anyway, how do you feel about this guy coming in?

[Andrew T]

Oh, my God. This is interesting because it is like, I mean, as I said in part one, it is like shocking to me. You know what it is, is because I was born in a time like you. I think we were talking about this where we had come out of perceiving the standup that the 70s, the, like, you know, the Carlins and Kaufmans of the world had kind of left. Left at our doorstep.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Andrew T]

Made standup seem, to the extent that it was political. Did not seem like, like. I guess what I mean is like, to me, from my perception, standup has taken a big right wing, like, turn in my lifetime.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is.

[Andrew T]

It was interesting to learn that this may simply be reverting to the meme.

[Robert Evans]

Well, it's. At least, I think it's more accurate to say there have always been those kinds of guys in comedy because Milton Berw, we're talking about how a lot of people hated him. He was not personally super well loved and his career is destroyed in large part due to how much of a bigot he is. But this has always been there and it's always been significant.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, right. I think what it is is that there has always been a. An audience that craves this type of guy. And we see it now. This is the, you know. Well, there's honestly probably all of the top podcasts. Besides, you have that audience.

[Robert Evans]

Not entirely true, but it's not like as far off as it would be nice if it were. Right.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, it's just like there was a massive audience for. I mean, even just like speaking comedic terms as we've talked a couple times for punching down, like, there is a.

[Robert Evans]

Huge place to punch.

[Andrew T]

There's an appetite for it. Yeah. And although, of course, you know, if you're really gonna strike down, you wanna do an elbow down, I think.

[Robert Evans]

Right, right.

[Andrew T]

People punching is not as efficient.

[Robert Evans]

No, no, no. And just, you know, try to find someone shorter than You. That's always the easiest person to hit.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I'm saying this constantly, but so I think that's it.

[Andrew T]

It's just that there's always been this audience and. And the perception that comedy spoke truth to power, as it were, is really just the fabrication it's capable of, but it doesn't do it inherently. Comedy's more about just making fun of the people you hate, and sometimes those people deserve it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Frank Fay being a great example. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah, exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew T]

Oh, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway.

[Robert Evans]

Yes.

[Andrew T]

Fucking illuminating.

[Robert Evans]

Fucking illuminating and illuminated. Fucking. Wait, no, that doesn't work. Anyway, podcast. You got anything to plug?

[Andrew T]

You know, I do a podcast called Yo's Is Racist. We have a premium show that's much more fun called Yo Can We Live where we don't talk about Racism? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. I don't know.

[Robert Evans]

It's great.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, it's ight.

[Robert Evans]

I don't know. Ever killed anybody?

[Andrew T]

You know what? Not that I know of.

[Robert Evans]

Okay. Okay.

[Andrew T]

I've never done it.

[Robert Evans]

We always ask that at the end of these episodes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we ask. Actually, every single guest. We've just had to edit out all of the other times we've done it because every other person who's guested on this show has admitted to a murder. That's a fun behind the Bastards fact, folks.

[Andrew T]

Sometimes there's. Sometimes there's just a long pause, and even that's incriminating.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew T]

You gotta be able to say no right away.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, prosecutors, please arrest and prosecute all of our former guests for murder, except for Andrew T. You know, innocent Andrew Innocent T. Andrew T. Innocent. Yep. Well, Sophie's not speaking up, so this must be okay for me to say. Anyway, that's about it for us here today at behind the Bastards. Ladies, gentlemen, thems and other pronouns, types of people go. Have a good weekend or have a bad weekend. It's pretty bad times right now, but I hope your weekend's good. Just end the podcast. Unless you're bad. No, Sophie. Why? Why? Why end a podcast? Podcasts don't need to end. We can just keep going. We can keep v. Behind the Basterds is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, YouTube.com behindthebastards.

[Unknown]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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