Part Two: H.L. Hunt: The First Elon Musk

Summary

Behind the Bastards

Part Two: H.L. Hunt – The First Elon Musk

Date: May 14, 2026 | Host: Robert Evans (Cool Zone Media & iHeartPodcasts); Co-host: Sophie (possibly), Producer: Announcer

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Robert Evans continues the deep dive into the life of H.L. Hunt, once rumored to be the richest man in the world and a prototype for modern magnates like Elon Musk. Picking up where Part One left off, Evans tracks the evolution of Hunt from failed cotton farmer and gambling prodigy to oil tycoon, notorious family man, and architect of American right-wing media. The episode exposes Hunt’s personal failings, dubious business origins, and the profound, toxic legacy he left on American politics and media.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Cotton Farming Failure to Gambling and Crime

• Hunt’s Early Ambitions: Influenced by his father’s love for the South, Hunt starts a cotton plantation in Arkansas by 1912 ([03:26]).

• Repeated Failure: He quickly learns that making money in cotton without slavery is near impossible and is bankrupted multiple times ([03:56]).

  • Robert Evans: “Cotton farming sucks ass. And it's really hard to, like, get rich doing unless you own a bunch of people who you can make work for you for free.” ([03:39])

• Never Dissuaded by Setbacks: Hunt is defined by his tenacity and ability to bounce back after losses, often through gambling ([04:01], [06:10]).

  • Quote: “If I were writing a LinkedIn post to appeal to a bunch of wannabe founders and CEO bootlickers… Hunt, you know, bankrupted himself three times. And he never let it... convince him to stop.” ([04:38])

• Gambling Den & Prostitution: Early on, Hunt opens a gambling parlor alongside his plantation and reportedly operates prostitution activities ([05:10], [11:45]).

  • FBI file notes: “He was reportedly a professional gambler who won an oil lease in a card game and is alleged to have operated prostitution activities in Arkansas.” ([11:24])

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2. Personal Life: Chronic Cheating and Family Neglect

• Serial Infidelity: Hunt marries Lyta Bunker in 1914, and quickly begins cheating on her ([06:43]–[07:56]).
  • Quote: “He is not subtle about it... She has to deal with hearing endlessly about like, oh, your husband sure has an eye for the ladies, huh?” ([07:56])
• Absent and Negligent Father: Even after early business success, Hunt continues to abandon his family for gambling and speculative ventures ([13:33], [15:34]).
  • Leaves family nearly destitute on multiple occasions while pursuing oil ([14:58], [15:34])
• Lasting Emotional Harm to Children:
  • Quote: “[Hassie] felt personally rejected by this strange man who entered his life only now and then... This man had named him after himself... then apparently decided his son was not quite up to snuff.” ([17:36])

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3. Bigamy and Second Secret Family

• Double Life: In 1925, Hunt starts a second family with Frania Atai in Florida, marrying her bigamously without divorcing Lyta ([20:10]–[21:12]).
  • Quote: “He never divorced his first wife, nor did he break up with her, nor did he tell her that he was done. Frania... does not know that he's cheating. She has no idea he has another wife and multiple children.” ([20:12])
• Total Children: Across marriages (and affairs), Hunt ultimately fathers about 15 children ([21:59]).
• Eventually, Hunt’s duplicity is uncovered by Frania; he pays a friend to marry her and claim her children as his own, both to resolve the scandal and keep the story hidden ([48:42]–[49:28]).

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4. Oil Riches and Ruthlessness

• Breakthrough: The Daisy Bradford Well
  • In 1930, Hunt buys into what becomes the world’s largest oil-producing field, the “number one Daisy Bradford” well ([23:46]–[24:27]).
  • Suspicion of Cheating Partners: “Nobody has ever figured out how he did it. Hunt says it was simple. He paid $1 million. But Joyner died with little money... I think there's a pretty good chance Hunt fucks this guy.” ([28:36])
• Spectacular Wealth: By age 25, Hunt is worth the equivalent of multimillions today, and despite losing fortunes, always rebuilds quickly ([12:44], [13:36]).
• World War II Wealth: When the U.S. enters WWII, Hunt owns more oil reserves than all the Axis powers combined—a measure of his outsized influence ([35:19]).
  • Quote: “At the start of World War II... H.L. Hunt personally owns more oil reserves than all of the Axis powers put together.” ([35:19])

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5. Ideological Shift: Anti-Communism and Right-Wing Media Empire

• Postwar Paranoia: Paranoid about communism, Hunt envisions a “utopian” state where votes are assigned based on tax payments ([51:00]).
  • Quote: “He begins envisioning... his ideal utopian state, which is this kind of, like, dream libertarian capitalist republic where votes are assigned in elections based on how much you pay in taxes.” ([51:20])
• Funding the Right: Hunt becomes a key sponsor of Senator Joe McCarthy and pioneer of right-wing media propaganda, launching the Facts Forum in 1951 ([51:00]–[52:44]).
  • Tax Dodge via Propaganda: “If you're balanced and educational, then your content... is tax exempt. The money that he spends on this is basically what he does instead of paying taxes...” ([52:44], [53:29])
• Inventing Astroturfing: He manipulates public opinion by sending pre-selected “polls” to newspapers as if they were scientific samplings, laundered into mainstream narratives ([54:47]–[55:49]).
  • Pamphlet Quote from Facts Forum: “What you believe and say is public opinion. Public opinion is a constant immutable force which can be altered or changed only by itself.” ([56:03])

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6. Media Tactics and Legacy

• Non-collaborative Narcissism: Unlike modern right-wing media funded by collectives, Hunt funds propaganda solely to reflect his views—his “narcissism” is extraordinary ([56:38]).
  • Quote: “Hunt's propaganda is just Hunt. He does not talk to anyone else. He doesn't organize with anyone else. Hates people because he doesn't need to.” ([56:46])
• No Charisma: Despite his power, Hunt is terrified of public speaking and lacks charisma, selecting Dan Smoot as his mouthpiece ([57:57]).
• Fairness Doctrine Exploited: By posing as nonpartisan “educational” content, Hunt’s Facts Forum gets half a billion in today’s dollars’ worth of free airtime annually ([61:16]).
• Prototype for Modern Media Manipulation: “He's invented Fox News.” ([61:20])

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Notable Quotes

• On Hunt’s Character and Methods:
  • “Every time he goes bankrupt, he gets his money back because he's like a gambling freak.” ([06:44] - Robert Evans)
  • “This is his kink... We're not putting four grand ass down on a night of poker. We're putting a quarter of a million dollars on one roll of the fucking dice.” ([32:52]–[33:00] - Evans & co-host)
• On Family Life:
  • “He treats her so badly. I really, I cannot exaggerate what a bad husband he is.” ([08:21] - Evans)
  • “You destroyed Hassie. Nobody but you. You've gotten away with a kind of murder. And it's time you faced up to that.” ([44:35] - Margaret, Hunt’s daughter)
• On Right-Wing Organizing:
  • “His beliefs, it's almost a religious belief to him, is that he's so right about everything that if everyone just hears what he believes, everyone will adopt his political beliefs immediately.” ([57:38] - Evans)
• On Propaganda:
  • “What you believe and say is public opinion...” ([56:03] - Facts Forum pamphlet)

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Important Timestamps

• Early Business Ventures, Gambling, and Crime: [03:26]–[06:44]
• Infidelity and Family Neglect: [06:44]–[15:34]
• Bigamy and Secret Families: [20:10]–[22:09], [48:42]–[49:28]
• Daisy Bradford Oil Well and Sudden Wealth: [23:46]–[28:36]
• World War II and Unprecedented Oil Power: [35:19]
• Postwar Radicalization, Anti-Communism, and Media Manipulation: [50:58]–[57:38]
• Astroturfing, Media Strategy, and the Birth of Right-Wing Media: [54:41]–[61:20]

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Tone and Style

The episode maintains Behind the Bastards’ signature irreverent, darkly humorous tone, anchored by Evans’ incisive asides and witty banter with his co-host. The hosts frequently punctuate historical analysis with personal anecdotes, jokes, and caustic commentary, making serious points about the dangers of unaccountable wealth and unchecked propaganda through humor, sarcasm, and pointed cultural references.

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Memorable Moments

• The running gag of Hunt’s “supernaturally good at sex” and breast milk, highlighting the absurdity of hagiographic founder myths ([00:05], [56:41]).
• Evans’ repeated reminders of Hunt’s gambling as a superpower—not just a vice, but core to his business and life philosophy ([06:10], [32:52]).
• The daughter Margaret confronting H.L. Hunt: “You destroyed Hassie. Nobody but you. You've gotten away with a kind of murder.” ([44:35])

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Summary

This episode exposes H.L. Hunt as a foundational figure in American oligarchy—equal parts gambler, criminal, absentee father, bigamist, oil baron, and propaganda innovator. His journey from failed farmer to oil kingpin is one of relentless risk-taking at his family’s, partners’, and ultimately the nation’s expense. More than his personal failings, it’s Hunt’s role in pioneering astroturfed media, anti-tax propaganda, and direct ideological manipulation—techniques now ubiquitous in American politics—that cements his status as a true “bastard.” The story continues in Part Three.

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For more on Hunt's later years, political extremism, and further personal weirdness, stay tuned for Part Three of this series.

Transcript

[Producer/Announcer]

Call Zone Media.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Oh. Welcome back to behind the Bastards, a podcast about the worst people in all of history. And this week we are about to start part two of our episodes on the former richest man in the world, H.L. hunt. And when we left him off, his dad and his beloved older brother had just died. He had been saved by a magical prostitute after proving supernaturally good at sex. And he's in Arkansas starting a farm. You know, using the money he'd inherited and the money he'd taken from fleecing all of his friends at poker, he is going to try to make something of himself.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

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[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Guaranteed Human.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to Dave David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Where does your group perform?

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

I seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping thing and there was a pool of blood. Somebody somewhere knows something.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 is out now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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N.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

So by the start of 1912, our boy, Haroldson Lafayette Hunt had opened his very own cotton plantation. Again, this is probably inspired by. By the fact that his father had kind of talked endlessly about how beautiful the south was and how great cotton farming was. Unfortunately, he's going to learn a lesson, which is that cotton farming sucks ass. And it's really hard to, like, get rich doing unless you own a bunch of people who you can make work for you for free.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Yeah, right. Empire Cotton History taught me that lesson very clearly.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

They're like, yes, yes. When you have to, like, do your own work and pay people to help you, sucks way harder. Way harder. And he's going to learn that over the next few years. Right. He's also going to learn that the cotton market itself is incredibly volatile. Right. And so from year to year, your harvest might not be worth what you put in to make it. And also, like, bad weather can fuck you, you know, if you don't have enough of a nest egg to survive it. Right. It's just a very hard lifestyle. And this is where the fact that he starts. He starts farming and immediately learns, oh, shit, it's really hard to make money cotton farming. This is going to show evidence of one of his most valuable traits, right? Which is that he is not dissuaded by failure. A couple of times in his life, he's going to lose everything. Like, three different times, he loses everything and, like, makes it back, you know, to ultimately get crazy rich. And if I were writing a LinkedIn post to appeal to a bunch of wannabe founders and CEO bootlickers, I didn't. There. Right, right. Hunt, you know, bankrupted himself three times. And he never let it, never, never let it convince him to stop. He never backed down. He just got right back on the horse and made the money up again.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Should be president.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Right, right. It is true that confidence in the face of failure is important. You're certainly not going to make it as an entrepreneur unless you can't. You can handle some failure. But it's a separate characteristic of Hunt's that's going to contribute a lot more to his future success than, than the fact that he's fine with failure. The thing that actually keeps him going through all these failures, and particularly through the failure of his cotton business, is that he also owns a casino. Right. That'll do a lot more to do with it than the attitude. I mean, casino's putting it a little far. It's not like a full on Vegas casino. Obviously those don't exist yet. But he owns a gambling den, right? An article that Anita Davis wrote for EBSCO notes that Hunt opens a gambling parlor right alongside his cotton plantation. He starts them both basically at the same time. And while the plantation doesn't really work out financially, the gambling den is a good investment. Right.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

He's like, you know what? Slavery does suck. Let's get to gambling.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Gambling though, nothing problematic about that. Baby. Put it all on red. So one constant of Hunt's early life is that when he suffers a reverse and like loses all of his money, he's able to. It's weird cause before I learned this, I would just be like, okay, but he lost all of his money. How does he, a year later have like $8,000 to invest in this new business? Well, it's. Cause he keeps gambling. And whenever he runs out of money, he just gambles until he makes more money. Cause he's like, it's a superpower for him. Like he just. As far as I can tell, anytime the man sits down at a table, he walks away with money, right?

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Disgusting.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

And if you have that, it's like fucking Lieutenant Commander Data, right? Like he's just gonna win when he sits down to play cards. So every time he goes bankrupt, he gets his money back because he's like a gambling freak, right. In 1914, he marries Lyta Bunker and the newlyweds get to work having the first of what will ultimately be six children. Their first child is a girl, Margaret. They have her in 1915 and two years later they have their first boy, who he names Haroldson Lafayette Hunt. Technically he's the third. Right. Lyta calls him Hassie. She also calls her husband Hasi. So it's kind of confusing in the book at this point because you'll hear Tussel will refer to both of them as Hassie. I'm only going to call his son Hassie. When I say Hassie, I'm talking about our Harold Hunt, the future richest man in the world's kid. Now he is going to cheat constantly on his wife. He is cheating on Lyta as early as 1917, probably earlier than that. But at least by that point. And he is not subtle about it. So Lyta has to deal with hearing endlessly about like, oh, your husband sure has an eye for the ladies, huh?

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Ew.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Which she does not like, does not make her feel good. His tell is like the way that she can tell he's cheating on her is he'll point out a lady in town and be like, you know, she's a really good person. And that means light is like, okay, so he's fucking her or he's gonna try to fuck her. Right. Sometimes it just means that he's got the progress. Right. Right.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Her personality, he really shines through, you

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

know, What a great personality she's got. You just like casually bringing that up to your wife and yeah, it's, it's one of those things where like she's never okay with it. She kind of, I think, accepts it just because the world is the way it is. She doesn't have any, there's nothing she can, not much she can do about it. Right. But it makes her sad. And also his kids can tell that he's cheating on their mom and they don't like it. Like his, his first two kids especially are going to really hate him for the fact that he is just, he makes, he makes their mother miserable. He treats her so badly. I really, I cannot exaggerate what a bad husband he is. Hunt suffers ups and downs over the first three years he spends farming. But world war done, World War I finally does. His. His cotton plantation in the cotton market collapses kind of not long after the outbreak of war. And then in 1917 his farm gets flooded out. And just kind of the mix of these two factors together, he can't keep it going anym. He has to give up somehow he goes from this, from his going bankrupt and his farm failing in 1917 to investing in his first oil well in 1921. And there's a little bit of mystery as to how he gets his first oil well. Here's how that pro oil and gas industry website Oklahoma Minerals describes this part of his career. So this is like the, this is like the, this is the approved propaganda line that Hunt wanted people to believe. With a borrowed $50, he began trading oil leases employing a strategy of buying and selling that almost simultaneously to profit without significant capital investment. This approach allowed him to amass considerable wealth in a short period. Right. So basically he's just doing the kind of trading people do on computers now. But with his super smart brain and he doesn't need much money, it's just a borrowed $50. You know, he's able to turn that gradually into enough of a fortune to start buying his own oil fields. That's not quite accurate. That is like, it accurately describes one of his strategies, which is that once he gets going after he has this first successful oil field, he'll start buying and selling leases. And he is doing this thing where he's like doing it in such a way that he doesn't have to actually put much money down. Right. Because he's just kind of switching, shuffling assets around. It's a little bit of like a show game type deal. But this does leave out something important about how he got his first oil. Oil well. And to describe that, I'm going to go back to his FBI report from the FBI. Quote, he was reportedly a professional gambler who won an oil lease in a card game and is alleged to have operated prostitution activities in Arkansas. So this is something you'll find first off, it's not just a gambling den, he's also a pimp. Right. That's especially. I think that he gets more into that as the farm fails. He's like, well, crime will make money for me. And he uses the proceeds of both gambling and prostitution in order to make the money that he invests in oil fields. And it's very possible, we don't know entirely if it's that he literally won his first oil field in a card game. That was a rumor and it seems very possible. But if he didn't win his first oil field in a card game, then he bought it with the proceeds from crime. Right? And I think it's probably true. He probably won his first oil field in a card game and then invested in other leases and got into the trading leases game with money he made from crime. Right. I think it's probably a mix of those. But this guy has to become a criminal to get rich, right? That's not emphasized enough in the hagiographies of him. But like he's, he's a, he's, he's a pimp, you know, so he's going

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

to do all of this and then end up becoming like a far right,

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

super right, super right wing out

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

the hypocrisy.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

He's not a religious guy initially. Yeah, he's. It's very much a hypocrisy thing. But like all these guys, they're all hypocrites.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

All, yeah, big tits in the fucking.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Anyone whose whole thing is like attacking and wanting to like harm people, using the state for violations of A moral code is always in violation of the moral code that they are trying to push on other people one way or the other. When you dig enough, you find it out. Right? Right. That's just as far as I am convinced. A pretty universal truth with these. These kinds of assholes. I found an article from the Nation from 1964. The author of that article claims the explanation that he like, gambled to get his first oil field got into print for the first time in 1950 in a British newspaper. But it has been repeated many times since. Hunt denies it all. And I don't know what the truth is here. Whatever the truth, Hunt is going to continue operating gambling establishments for the next couple decades. He makes a fortune on the Arkansas oil boom and is said to have been worth $600,000 by the time he's 25. Which you know, by the standards, like if you turn that into modern money, he's a multimillionaire pretty much by the time he's in his mid-20s. Now. He's gonna lose all of that money not long after this bill, make even more back. Right. He's not what you'd call a good father at any point in time, especially in this period.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

I can imagine all that cheating.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah, all the cheating. He gambles constantly instead of. He doesn't like, spend time raising his kids like when he has free time, when he's not working on the farm, he's gambling, right. And then when he eventually he's gambling or he's speculating on oil lease oil field leases, right. But he never. He never just has downtime with the kids. He's always gambling. Right. During the early years before he leaves Arkansas to pursue oil fields in Louisiana and then Texas, his kids tell regular stories of him just being gone all the time and like mom needing to find someone to watch them when she had to do something because he's playing poker, right. And she hates him gambling. She thinks that him gambling is the root of all of their problems. Now, to be fair, she's not right. Like, she blames him gambling on them going bankrupt like two or three times. And he goes bankrupt because of the legitimate businesses. Like first because of his farm and then I think like a couple of times as he's not quite bankrupt, but he loses a lot of money on like oil speculation. Gambling is a really reliable way for them to make money, or at least I should say the card gambling is not what is bad for their finances. His gambling on oil speculation fucks them over a couple of times. Yeah, right.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

But his Ego is fed by the gambling. And that's the thing, too, is, like, that makes him reinforce that he's the most special. And what makes it feel like, yeah, I can go out and sleep with whoever I want and do whatever, because I can just.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Exactly.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Boom.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

The rules don't apply. Yeah. Pocket sand. Yeah. So he takes all of his money. There's a couple occasions where he'll just, like, take all of the money and, like, leave his wife with the kids nearly destitute for, like, a year and just go down to another state to speculate on oil fields. So she does. Like, the kids don't. Like, this is a scary time for the kids. They don't know if he's ever coming back, and neither does she. Right. And he doesn't. Like, I don't think he makes it clear that he's coming back. I think he's like, I'm gonna go see what I. If I can make a fortune. And he's kind of like, and if I die out there or whatever and leave you guys destitute. Well, that's how it goes, you know,

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

I've been doing this since I was 12 years old, guys. Don't worry about me.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Right?

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

And, like, by the time. By the time he's worth 600 grand at 25, he could have, like, retired and put all of that into, you know, a couple of safe investments or just, you know, like, fucking bonds or whatever, and lived and supported his family comfortably for the rest of their lives and, like, been a father. He chooses to then gamble all of that money again and leave his family. He does not need to. He has a point where he's like, you could choose to be a father and raise your kids, and you would all be wealthy for the rest of your lives. And he takes all of that money and puts it all on black and loses it and is gone for, like, another year or so to make it back. Right, Right. So this is not good for his family.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

And I'm sure he's in the back of his mind. He's like, listen, I'm not ye bothering you guys. I'm not harassing you about how much breast milk you guys are getting, so why should you be upset?

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

I'm giving you unlimited mom time.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Nobody wants their dad around. It sucks.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Dads are terrible.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

I'm doing you a favor. And, yeah, like, his wife blames all of this, again, on, like, the poker, but he is. She is right that, like, his gambling is what's destroying the family. It's just his gambling on Oil wells is what's destroying the family because he again they go bankrupt a second time in the 20s because of all this. Per the book Kingdom, he gave no thought in the world to security for his family. Right. That is accurate. And that's also how his wife and his first couple of kids see him. Right. As he does not give a fuck about us, he is willing to gamble all like our happiness and our survival entirely because it thrills him. When his oldest son Hasie turns 8, it's become apparent that he has inherited his father's intellect. Has he is incredibly bright. Unfortunately, he's also the one who's most hurt by his father's complete neglect to seen writes has he felt personally rejected by this strange man who entered his life only now and then without warning. This man had named him after himself, had given him his looks and quick intelligence, then apparently decided his son was not quite up to snuff. Right. So that's very much. How has he sees what his dad is doing is like he named me after himself. He clearly wanted me to be his heir and then I must have failed him because he wants nothing to do with me.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

That's so sad. It's like he's just repeating the exact same cycles of harm. And like I like psychologically it's interesting, but just as like a human being, like, you're a dick. Stop being a dick.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah, don't stop. Don't do that to your kids again. I kind of think if you wind up getting lucky enough that you have like a windfall that allows you to never work again and support your kids forever, you kind of have a responsibility to like be a really involved parent at that point and maybe stop gambling incessantly. You know, you could start a business and like, you know, or have some small investments. But that's the point at which you should make your family a priority again. You've succeeded, you know, you don't need to keep doing this.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

You have to choose a struggle. Like either be broken present or be rich and nice. Like you can't be both. Mean and then not present and then always messing with money. Like pick a struggle.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

In 1925, he abandons his family yet again to speculate on oil fields in Florida while he's now. And I want to, I want to specify that's Florida, the state not far. Flo Rida, the musical sensation. Always there's confusion whenever we talk about those.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

It's important to get these things right.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

A lot of people know Flo Rida but don't know that there's a state that's named after him. I just want to make that clear. So while he's down in Florida, he meets a waitress, Franny Atai, who helps him find a plot of land to gamble on near Tampa. It's like he thinks there might be oil. And I think there. It winds up being there, winds up being oil there. But he spends months down in Tampa, you know, searching for more deals, working on that deal, and hanging out a lot with Franny Atai, with this waitress, right? She's a wannabe musician. She's like a singer. And so he gets really into writing musicals. He convinces himself that, like, he's a great writer and in fact that, like, oh, all these other writers, all these professional writers are idiots. Like, I bet because I'm so smart, I could be the best playwright ever if I just devoted some time to it. So he, like, becomes convinced he's going to be, like, the biggest thing on Broadway. He, like, goes to a show on Broadway once around this period of time, and he's like, I'm gonna make the best musical that's ever been made.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Has he ever been to New York? Like, what is he talking about?

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

He's been once. Yeah, he's been once. He saw. He sees a show on Broadway, that's what convinces him he's gonna be the greatest musician or the greatest playwright of all time. And so for a while, he gets really into that, and he, like, writes a bunch of songs that sounded terrible. And they're primarily songs for Frania, right, Because he's in love with her at this point. He marries her on Armistice Day, 1925. Now, you may note he never divorced his first wife, nor did he break up with her, nor did he tell her that he was done. Frania, by the way, does not know that he's cheating. She has no idea he has another wife. He does not tell her he has a wife and multiple children. He's lying to her, too. She's not. Does not bear any responsibility here. She thinks she's met a guy and fall in love with him, and he marries her and they start having kids together. He buys her a house, and he just starts raising a second secret family in Florida.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Oh, my God.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

So Frania will ultimately have four children.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Jamaican, I can say that.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

A lot of people do that.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

I know, but it's just like one. One fitness family. One neglected family is not enough. Let's just have two.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

I gotta really double down on my family neglect. Look, two neglected families makes a non neglected family that's the way it works.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Right.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

If you neglect enough families, it loops around to you being a caring father.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Oh, just like a numbers game. It's like his gambling at one point.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

All in number.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Someone's gonna have to like me.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Right? Right. I'm going to eventually find a family I actually want to be there for.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Exactly.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Statistically speaking, it's like gambling. Just keep getting. Keep getting new cards, keep dealing.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Wait, so just to clarify, how many children does he have with the first wife?

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Ultimately, he's going to have like 15. He has six, I think, with his first wife and four with Frannia. Ultimately, over the course of his life, he has like 15 kids.

[Producer/Announcer]

It's too many.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Ew.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

And again, this is bigamy. He's bigamously married now. This is a crime. You're not allowed to do this in 1930. Because he also lied to the government. Right. About not being previously married. In 1930, he takes his money and he moves to East Texas, where he meets a fellow named C.M. joyner. So now he has abandoned both of his families. He meets a man named C.M. joyner, who's another oil speculator. Not. Sorry, not a speculator. Joyner is one of these guys. I forget the term for it, but he's like, he's like a prospector for oil wells. Right. So Joyner identifies some land that's like, I think there's oil on this land. This is like. And I think a lot of it. Right. And this well's name is number one. Daisy Bradford Joyner is like a legend in the oil well prospecting business. This is a big deal. Guys like this who are like, really skilled enough at geology and stuff to like, find well. Yeah. To like, because this is the whole oil boom relies on guys like this going out. And because they don't have a lot of the technology we have today, so they're kind of looking at, like, the geology and whatnot. And like, where do I think there's going to be oil? Because it costs a lot of money to, like, drill to prove that there's oil and drill, baby, drill. And a property. Right. So the guys who are best at identifying places that they think are worth drilling and have the highest success rate are worth a lot of money. And Joyner is one of the best of these guys. And he picks out this space that becomes the oil well. Number one, Daisy Bradford Hunt buys the rights to this oil well because that's how guys like Joyner make it. They're not running the wells themselves. They like, they find, they speculate they find it and then they like buy a bunch of acreage that they think is a good place for an oil well and then try to find someone else to buy it and actually like prove their like make the well. Right? That's kind of how the business works. I'm yada yada ing a lot. But Hunt buys the rights to this well and he leases 4000 surrounding acres from CM Joiner. So he doesn't own this land, he's like leasing it and basically buying the rights to exploit the well. So he and Joyner in business together initially. This proves to be a really wise move because number one, Daisy Bradford becomes the largest producing oil field on planet earth for years. This is the number one oil field on the planet, right? That is going to make a lot of money now.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

He's gonna be so annoying. He's gonna be so he's gonna get.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

This is going to really allow him to be a lot more of a piece of shit. And we'll talk about that. But you know who else is a piece of shit? Nope. I love our sponsors here.

[Producer/Announcer]

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[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

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[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. The worst singer in the group. The worst. Yeah, me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation?

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

The Yardbirds, right? That's the name.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

The Harvard Yard. But they're open if you have a name suggestion.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

We're open.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Since you guys are middle aged, one erection, listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your priority podcast.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

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[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

And we're back. Sophie. Sophie didn't notice that. So it's fine. We're good. We're good. We're happy. Everything's fine.

[Producer/Announcer]

I am unhappy.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Sophie's happy. She just says that when she's happy. She loves saying I'm unhappy to mean I'm happy.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

She's just so beautiful. You can't tell, but she's unhappy.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Classic Sophie. So that piece from the Nation that I've been quoting from outlines some of the weirdness around this oil deal for what's gonna become the biggest oil field in the world. Number one, Daisy Bradford, quote, As a matter of mysterious fact, he, Hunt wound up with most of the land Joyner started with. Nobody has ever figured out how he did it. Hunt says it was simple. He paid $1 million. But Joyner died with little money. And the almost uncountable riches Hunt has taken from Joyner's old land has turned some Texas oil men sour on him. So basically, people are pretty sure Hunt did something to screw Joyner out of a lot of money and, like, kind of ruin him. But we don't know that that happened. Joyner might have just squandered it, right? Some of those oilmen might have had sour grapes. That said, I think there's a pretty good chance Hunt fucks this guy. Like, he does not have everything else great with his business partners. Yeah, exactly. He fucks everything else. That said, all these other oil guys probably do have sour grapes because Hunt is not just a good oil man. He is the oil man of, like the first big oil boom. He is the best at this by a huge margin. He starts making money hand over fist not long after this point. And this is the end of his boom and bust cycles. He will never be poor again. He will never be out of money again. This well makes so much money that he's able to buy up more oil wells. He eventually owns hundreds of oil wells. I think more than 500. I forget the exact number. But he owns so many fucking oil wells and so many that he accumulates an almost impossible seeming percentage of the US Oil market. He lives in Tyler, Texas, during this period where he was noted by others as he's like, this is when he's starting to really get rich as a. He's a loner, right? He doesn't like to. The oil well guys, the guys who are like working on these wildcat rigs and stuff, like, socialize. They like to party, like to go out and drink. He doesn't socialize with any of his colleagues or any of his subordinates. He doesn't like to know them. He likes to work. He spends his free time doing extra work in his office, indoors, not outside. He prefers making deals to doing any labor on any of the claims that he owns. The son of one of his business partners at the time recalled, Mr. Hunt never forgot anything. Maps, statistics, lease data. He's never forgot. So he's got this, like, Eidetic memory, I think is the term for it, right where he just. He just doesn't forget things. Hunt has had to abandon his family at least twice to get to this point, but by now he has finally made it. And as the 1930s turned into the 1940s, he is making money hand over fist. Now, the case made in that article in the Nation, which is the best explanation I've seen anyone give. As for why Hunt succeeds so far, hard goes like this. He never stops gambling, and that's what works for him. Ultimately, his whole driving intellectual justification for his business practices is the law of averages. He thinks about being an oil speculator the same way he thought about playing poker. As Hunt himself said, quote, an element of luck is important when you first get started in the business. If you don't get a well fast, you can't accumulate the capital to start operating on a large enough scale. But after you start rolling, what you mainly need is a thorough knowledge of the laws of chance. A wildcatter can expect to bring in one well for every 30 tries, and only one man in 30 will do that. If you don't have faith in the law of averages, you'll probably get discouraged and quit. In my wildcatting days, I've drilled a hundred dry wells one after the other. Then, when prospects looked most pessimistic, the law of averages would go to work for me, just as I figured it would. Now that article goes on to note after Hunt's quote, the boldness of that statement can be understood only when one realizes that a quarter of a million dollars is not an unusual cost for wildcatting a single well. So when he says he'd have a hundred dry wells in a row, each of those dry wells is costing like a quarter of a million bucks, that's just wasted like that. He is gambling. That's why he loves. This is. This is gambling.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Gambling.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

We're not putting fucking four grand ass down on a night of poker. We're putting a quarter of a million dollars on one roll of the fucking dice.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

This is his kink.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

And he's doing that hundreds of times. Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

It's so bizarre. I also just. I guess I'm just so. I can't imagine growing up, you know, poor, having that be your origin story and being so casual with risking everything. No, like, I just. I would just want to be so comfortable with my two wives. Like, I think that's part of the

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

key, is he doesn't grow up poor. He is one of eight kids, inherits Five grand, which is a shitload of money. Exactly at that point in time. Right. That's a comfortable inheritance. His dad has a 500 acre farm. They are not poor.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Because he wants to have that message for himself.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Right, Right. Like, I am in that kind of boat where, like, I didn't grow up. We certainly weren't dirt poor. We were never missing meals. But, like, my earliest memories are all the financial anxiety because, like, my mom tried to start a business and then another, and they both failed and we went fucking broke. You know, our aunt and uncle, who were like business partners, went bankrupt. Like it was. My dad had to leave for like almost two years to work in New York because it was the only place he could get a job. And that wasn't our house. And once I started making money, I don't gamble. Like, I don't gamble and I don't like, invest in crazy shit. Like, I'm really conservative with like my investments and like finances, like saving for retirement. I am very risk averse because I don't want to be scared about money again because I spend a lot of my life scared about money.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Yeah. I used to even make fun of my mom because she would do like the lotto tickets every day. And I'm like, mom, why are you. Why are you doing it? Just save your money. Give me it. Give me the money. I'll save it.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah, I. Yeah. So again, I think that he's like this in part because he doesn't grow up poor. Right. So he also has a superpower, so he knows he can always make more money gambling, which I think really helps too. That said, you know, obviously this doesn't work smoothly or perfectly. Hunt has his ups and downs, but the ups outnumber the downs to such an extent that by the time the US enters World War II, this is the craziest fact. You know how rich this guy is, how big a deal he is in the oil and gas industry at the start of world World War II. At the start. When the US enters World War II, H.L. hunt personally owns more oil reserves than all of the Axis powers put together.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Jesus.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Like, if you just want to. If you want to like, little hint about by the time the US Enters, how the Axises. From the start of that portion of World War II, one guy in the US has more oil than all of the Axis powers have access to one guy. They were once that, like, they could never have won once the US got involved. Like when you got the US and Russia. So, like all of the money and resources and all of the people, like, you're like, these people were so fucking fucked. HL Hunt has more oil than all of your asses.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Just drop him on the board. Just like, we have a Hulk, we have a hunt.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

It's just. We've got our fucking hunt. Yeah. Now that also, by the way, should answer the question. I shouldn't have to explain at this point. How did this guy become the richest man in the world when World War II started? He owned all of the oil. How do you think that worked for him? Yeah, that's my, that's my, like, business hack advice is own all of the oil on earth when a world war starts.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Write that down.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Everyone that'll. Well, when that world war starts, might not help you the same way if a third one kicks off, folks. So I would be remiss if I didn't point out, though, that owning the most productive oil wells on earth during World War II was not Hunt's only business. In the early to mid-1940s, his FBI file notes that as of 1943, he was alleged to be the operator of a private horse race and gambling bookie establishment near his office in Dallas. So he continues running a casino, but at this point, it's just for fun, right? It's love of the game. He doesn't use the money vibes. Like he. Absolutely. And he'll get in trouble a couple of times. There'll be some, like, investigations because he stays involved in a lot of illegal gambling stuff as an adult. He'll nearly get in trouble a couple of times, but it's just for shits and giggles at this stage. Now, obviously up to this point, this is like a dude who I don't think is very pleasant, but there's not enough to make him a bastard. You know, at this stage in the oil and gas industry, he doesn't know about climate change. That's certainly not like the widespread scientific consensus. So we can't really get him on that. He hasn't done anything. He's a shitty dad and he's bigamously married and those are bad things. But on its own, I don't do a behind the bastards just because a guy's got a shitty personal life. So now we're gonna talk about the stuff that makes him earn his way onto the podcast.

[Producer/Announcer]

I'm nervous cause It's World War II time.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

I know he's not too nervous.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

You know, he's. You get the. He's firmly right wing by the time World War II starts. I haven't seen Any allegations of pro Nazi sentiment. But he's anti intervention at the start of the war and opposes US entry into the war. Right. Which suggests to me maybe some alignment,

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

some Midford alignment, sympathies there.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah. That said, once the war starts, he realizes that because of the way oil depletion allowances work in tax laws. And I'm not gonna explain this in detail because I don't know much about taxes, but it's this thing that because of the way it works, you can kind of not pay taxes at all if you're an oil man in a specific way. Right. Per his biographer, Hunt began to realize that maybe he had been a trifle hasty in opposing American intervention. So basically he's like, wait a second, I can sell all of the oil to the Allied powers and I don't have to pay taxes on it. No, World War II sounds great.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

I can make this work.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah, make as many Shermans as you guys want. What do those things get? Half a mile to the gallon. Awesome. Yeah, keep rolling those fuckers off the line. So his big fear, though, during this period of time is that his son Hasi, now 22 years old, might get drafted. Right. He doesn't want his boy, his namesake, to go to war and die. So he works out a deal with the US Government because, you know, Hassi's gotta serve. You know, they're drafting everyone they can. So his son gets. Joins the army and gets commissioned immediately as a second lieutenant. Right. Which is not like. I mean, some people do join in our commission immediately, the second lieutenants and stuff. That's how you start if you're like an officer. But his son specifically gets commissioned because of who his dad is.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Nepo baby.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

The job, a very Nepo baby thing. And he doesn't want to be a Nepo baby. By this point in time, Hassie has already established himself independently as a successful oil man, like, separate from his dad. And he hates his dad. And he really does not want to be associated with his father. And his dad forces him, by working with the government, forces him into the situation that now he's made to join the army and he's made to take a job with the army where he's working in D.C. and he's basically advising the leader of China's Nationalist faction during their civil war. So he's, like, working with Chiang Kai Shek's guys specifically, I think, on, like, oil, a lot of oil related stuff. And he's doing this because his dad makes this job for him. He doesn't want this job, and he's really unhappy to be forced to once again live in his dad's shadow. This, like, fucks him up a lot. In the book, Kingdom to Sil writes about how Hassi has the op. This is the like, if he'd wanted to, this would have been a great opportunity, if he enjoyed being an EPO baby, to spend the war partying and hitting on all the hot ladies who are lonely because the men are gone. That's how to Sill writes. And then he adds this just yet another fascinating passage from his biography. The variety of females was enhanced by the Chinese Nationalist government, which staffed its embassy heavily with nubile young beauties from the Asian mainland. Willing young females have always been one of the Earth's most readily accepted forms of currency. And currency was required to purchase power and influence qi.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

The gross.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Like, yeah, you're not wrong. I'm sure the Chinese Nationalist government did staff their embassy with hotties because they know that that allows them to, like, you can use hot girls to help you spy on people, and you can use them to gain blackmail stuff. But, like, that's a gross way to write that. Also, the variety of females, yeah, always uses females that were rangi.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

The females are nubai. Please, I'm vomiting.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

It's weird. It's weird, Tassil. It's weird. So. But, you know, I don't doubt also that, like, that is basically what's going on. Right. Hassie is very unhappy in this situation. He had been starting again. He'd been living independently. He was, like, starting to succeed on his own. And then his dad uses the US government to trap him and force him to take the job his dad wants him to have. Like, it's the most controlling thing that you could possibly do as a father. And this is very in line with how he is as a dad. He's never there and he never provides any emotional support. But he also has a very specific idea of what he wants his namesake to do for a living. And he will, like, berate him and scream at him anytime he does anything different or anytime he falls short. And now he's like, oh, you want to live independently and do your own thing? No, fuck you. You're taking this job that I've made the government give you, and you're going to do it. And Hasi is deeply uncomfortable, and he has what sounds like a psychotic break one night after a party at the Chinese embassy and flies into a violent rage, destroying all of the furniture in the room and, like, fighting people. And when hotel Staff approach him, he starts screaming, I've been betrayed. Betrayed by the Rockefellers, betrayed by my father's enemies. They're all out to get me. So maybe it's kind of hard. I don't know what's going on with him. It may have been like paranoid schizophrenia because he's like, never going to get better. He's mentally ill the rest of his life.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

He broke him. He broke his boy.

[Producer/Announcer]

Yeah, I do love that the Rockefellers

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

come up that way all the time.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Portrayed by the Rockefellers.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

That's what I was laughing at. The scene of every crime.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

But in this case, they are literally in play.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

But I love, like, I do love how it's like they have, like his son ends up doing like a rival oil company, the same way like his brother and his dad had the rival banks. It's just like fathers and sons.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah, great succession.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Exactly. It's. So Murdoch coded the way that he was very much. Yeah, I'm just gonna absorb you into the coalition whether you want to be independent or not. It's so Murdoch.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Oh, you don't have any choice in this. Yeah. So he winds up has. He winds up in a military hospital. And when his dad comes for a visit, Hassie, like, charges him and tries to beat him up. Like, he basically rushes his dad as soon as his dad walks into the room and tries to assault him. He has to be restrained by guards. H.L. hunt tells his wife after this, the boy's too high spirited, too sensitive. He's always been too sensitive and reckless. Why, there's nothing wrong with the genes in that boy. He comes from the finest stock. Problem is he's too. His genes are good. They come from me. It's gotta be that, you know, he made his personality, he made choices to be too sensitive. You know, that's what's wrong with him. And when he says this, his daughter Margaret, his oldest child who's there, turns to him and replies, you destroyed Hassie. Nobody but you. You've gotten away with a kind of murder. And it's time you faced up to that eldest daughter.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

That fan fiction right there, that's it.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

That's got his ass.

[Producer/Announcer]

Oh, yeah, living up to the Margaret name. We love it.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah, living up to that Margaret name. And you know who else is named Margaret? Not the sponsors of our podcast maybe, but we don't know. They could be.

[Producer/Announcer]

What if it's a promo for cool

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

people do cool stuff again. They could be, could be. Not impossible. No way to know. Here's ads.

[Producer/Announcer]

It's possible Be cool.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest asked SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Who's the worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Me.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

donation to the group? To the group, the Yard Birds. Right. That's the name.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

The Harvard Yard. They're open if you have a name suggestion.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

We're open.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Since you guys are middle aged, one erection. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

If you're seeking to try to understand the forensic science behind these cases that we hear about in the news, body bags is where you need to turn. There's no fluff. We do a deep dive into the forensics. Listen to Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on America's number one podcast network. I heart open your free iHeart app and search Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan and start listening.

Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Will Friedle from Pod Meets World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast where two men who were completely clueless to reality TV who now have covered Dancing with the Stars. Traitors. And we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So, yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of Survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just gonna remind you, I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like what was.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Just because we. Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion of the 50th season. From the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

bunch of ha ooh ha ha ooh ha oo.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Again, we are experts, so make sure to tune into Pod meets Twirl for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to Pod Meets Twirl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

What would you eat if you had to start over?

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Real simple. Poor man's poor woman's food. Black beans, chicken, rice, plantains. Yeah, that's Always. That's poor people's food, man. But being Nigerian, that's come on the go to.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

On the podcast Eating While Broke, I sit down with celebrities, entrepreneurs and creators as they revisit the meals they once relied on and the moments that shaped their journey. Named best Food podcast at the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards, this show is all about real conversations on money, growth and what it really takes to make it.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

It was times where me and Lex would like, definitely get into it because we not making any money. Like, I need to start making money. Like, why are we doing this? But I don't know. I think we just always knew that we had something really good and eventually people were gonna catch on and so we just thugged it out.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

The full season is available to binge right now. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

And we're back. So speaking of being a great parent and husband, back in 1934, Frania, his second wife, had figured out that he had another secret family, right? I don't know exactly how, but she finds out that they've got another secret family and. And they drift apart after that. She's not happy about this. Per the Texas State Historical Association, Hunt apparently shipped her off to New York and in 1941, provided trusts for each of the four children. A friend of his, John Lee, married her and gave his name to the children for an idea. He's so rich now when his second family gets pissed and leaves in order to, like, hide what he's done, he gets. He basically, I'm sure, pays his friend to marry the family and pretend to be the father of those kids.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

That's so weird.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Crazy stuff. That's so weird. Wild.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Some people have too much money. Like, it's just like, yeah, you could just be a dad. You could just have.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Everyone who's ever been the richest man in the world has had too much money. We can start there.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Yeah, period.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah, it's just.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Ew.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah. GROSS Shit. In 1946, right after the war ended, a coal strike hits the East Coast. The. So there's this strike for the same reason people always strike, and it's causing this, like, energy shortage. And Hunt breaks the strike by supplying huge amounts of natural gas to the Southwest. Basically, you guys don't need coal from these coal miners. I've got all of this union free natural gas. And he winds up supplying 85% of the fuel needs of the east Coast.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Jesus.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Again he's not surprising that in 1948, I think life magazine names him the richest man on Earth. He has an estimated net worth of $263 million, which would be the equivalent of like three and a half billion dollars today. But he can't rest or sit on his laurels. The United States was only able to win World War II by partnering with the communists. And he came to believe that a vast conspiracy was at work to destroy the United States from the inside. And H.L. hunt knows a communist uprising would be very bad for H.L. hunt. Right. He really does not want to, want to see any of that go down. His businesses he doesn't think will do well.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

He's like, these are my money. This is my money.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they're not gonna like me. By the start of the 1950s, Hunt had figured out his own path out of the dangers of socialism. He begins envisioning and sketching out the dimensions of his ideal utopian state, which is this kind of like dream libertarian capitalist republic where votes are assigned in elections based on how much you pay in taxes.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Oh, my God.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

That's the primary thing that determines how many votes you get. Yeah, we'll talk more about that later. Some might call an idea like this Fascism adjacent, but Hunt doesn't care. His life has taught him that reality would mold to fit whatever he wants. So he decides to brute force his dream utopia into being. He's going to like, make America become this country. He's very much like a proto Peter Thiel type. He has this dream after he gets rich, of how to reorganize society so that he doesn't have to listen to anyone else. And he then begins putting his money into supporting a variety of causes and making media that will convince all of the dummies who are everyone else in the United States, that what he wants is best for everybody. He becomes a vocal supporter of Senator Joseph McCarthy, who he saw as a patriot protecting the nation from a vast cabal of secret communist agents who had infiltrated every level of society. Hunt decides to fight back against this, you know, left wing infiltration of all of our, our cultural and social governmental organs by funding one of the first explicitly right wing media organizations in the country. The Facts forum, founded in 1951, was immediately the best funded propaganda outlet in the United States. On paper, the Facts Forum was nonpartisan and educational. It has to be nonpartisan. It has to be.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Just care about the country. We just care about the facts, baby.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Just facts and education. Because if you're nonpartisan if you're balanced and educational, then your content, your radio and television is tax exempt. Right. You don't have to pay taxes on it. Basically, you get a tax write off for whatever you put into the media, which will allow Hunt to not pay taxes. Right. That's the big benefit of this, is that it doesn't actually cost him money. The money that he spends on this is basically what he does instead of paying taxes because of how the tax system works. So his choice is basically either pay taxes and fund like society or put it all into right wing propaganda. And he's like, well, I would much rather put it all into right wing propaganda.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

He's like, I'm gonna bet on red.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah. Yeah. In one early letter, Hunt describes the vision behind the Facts Forum as a kind of projection of the old New England town hall meeting idea. We have no ax to grind and no funds to raise. Now, that last bit was tactically true. He was the richest man in the world. He does not beg for donations, right? But he does beg his listeners to organize in person, advising them to set up discussion groups from 7 to 42 members and like read books together and talk about the ideas that he's putting out through the show. And in doing this and suggesting this, he's cripping off of what he understood as the playbook the Bolsheviks had used to take power. If you listen to that, there's all these like reading groups, like socialist reading groups all throughout the Russian the like czarist Russia that wind up being the core of all, not just the Bolsheviks, all of these different, like left wing revolutionary groups. Right. A lot of them start as book clubs and he's very much. And a lot of anti communists in this era, Post World War II, like that's the John Birch Society too, is like, what if we take the tactics these leftists are using, but we turn it towards basically pro fascist bullshit? Right.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

What if we give them the books that we like and then we make them read it and we write the books.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Right. Maybe we can make people be like, you know, violent, militant revolutionaries in favor of us not paying taxes. Yeah. So the Facts Forum has a membership list and a newsletter which was free to be outright partisan in a way that the radio show could not. That for whatever reason, the newspapers and stuff that he puts out don't have to abide by any of these rules. Every three weeks, members were polled on current affairs and the results. This is really interesting to me that he figures this out is he has his membership answer, polls that he writes and Then he sends the results to newspapers as if they're real polls that are evidence of like how Americans feel about issues. And a lot of newspapers publish this as if it's the news. As if these polls are like represent how Americans feel about things as opposed to what Hunt's really doing. Cuz he's coming up with the polls and it's his set group of people who are answering them. This is a way of laundering his talking points and what he believes about politics into the mainstream media and disguise that as. No, no, this is just how the masses feel.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Right.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

This is how the average American feels. This isn't just H.L. hunt's opinion, obviously.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Right. And then he can also present himself as like, I'm not getting anything out of this. I'm just trying to inform people about how everything is going on. He's just helping out.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

That's what Americans think. Right. And this is a major propaganda thing today. A lot of people do this. Now Hunt is very much like a trailblazer in this. He made his thinking on how this worked very clear in a pamphlet published by the Facts Forum. What you believe and say is public opinion. Public opinion is a constant immutable force which can be altered or changed only by itself. I don't like him when you're literally writing public opinion. Yeah, interesting. So from the jump, the only opinion Hunt's interested in was his own. He is not organizing with other conservatives

[Producer/Announcer]

because he's so special, Robert.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

He's got the best penis ever.

[Producer/Announcer]

He's got all that breast milk in

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

him, tons of breast milk, way more than you've got. But this is interesting. He's not like, you know, a lot of like these modern conservative groups are funded by multiple people. And you have like groups coming together to fund these organizations that have their own thinkers in them too who have like their own. And they're all pushing an agenda, but it's like an agenda that's a mix of multiple people, like working together. Hunt's propaganda is just Hunt. He does not talk to anyone else. He doesn't organize with anyone else. Hates people because he doesn't need to. He hates people. Right. He is not interested in the Facts Forum being a place where other conservatives can express their opinions. Right. It exists. So HL Hunt can convince Americans to adopt his politics because his beliefs, it's almost a religious belief to him, is that he's so right about everything that if everyone just hears what he believes, everyone will adopt his political beliefs immediately.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Obviously the narcissism.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Now the only issue for Hunt. And the reason like this is a problem when he starts creating radio and TV propaganda is that he's terrified of public speaking. He hates talking to people. He has no charisma, and he knows it. So he picks a spokesman.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Interesting.

[Producer/Announcer]

The man who apparently is so unbelievably right has no riz.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

He can. He can make a sex worker do whatever, but God forbid he has to sell his ideas.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Can't convince Americans about his tax policies.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

He's like.

[Producer/Announcer]

He's like, yeah, I'm a certified sex God. Cannot put a sentence together publicly.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Cannot put a sentence together, can't talk in front of a crowd unless I

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

can helicopter while telling you about my tax policy, it's just not gonna work.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

I'll write it my dick. Yeah, there you go. So he picks a spokesman, Dan Smoot. And I don't have time to do a BTB on Dan Smoot, but he's. He deserves one. Smoot was orphaned at 10 years old, and then, as a young adult, is rejected by the army for medical reasons at the start of World War II. And so he joins the FBI in order to serve his country that way. Yeah, there you go. He's in the FBI until 1951 when he resigns to work for Hunt. And what's fair on the air, is

[Producer/Announcer]

he what Greasy Wheel would call a side bastard?

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah, he's definitely a side bastard. So in what's Fair on the Air, Heather Hindershot writes of Smoot. He was willing to temper his arch conservatism by giving two sides to the political issues discussed. So that's like a major thing. Smoot has to be able to pretend to want to discuss fairly what the other side believes. Now, his faith and his vote, it's always clear what he actually believes and what he doesn't like saying. But as long as he says it, that's all that matters. Now, these were still the days in which the Fairness Doctrine held sway. The Fairness Doctrine is a 1949 FCC policy that required broadcast license holders to present controversial issues in a manner that fairly depicted differing views. Individual shows didn't have to abide by this, but license holders did. So if you have a right wing show, you're supposed to have, like, a left wing show too. Right. And because that's very expensive, networks are always looking for balanced news programs to fill the air where you don't have to have a second one to counteract the bias of the first one. Right. So this is. They're always desperate for balanced content. And the fact that He's, Hunt is making this and giving it to networks for free makes it really attractive to them. Them like they're going to give it free airtime because it's free. In 1951, the Facts Forum benefited from about 5 million per year in free public service airtime. And again, I think there's tax benefits to the networks for running balanced educational content too. So that also makes this attractive to them. One estimate I've seen is that in 1954, Hunt benefited from the modern day equivalent of half a billion dollars a year in free airtime, which is the calculation is that in 2016, in that election, Trump got about a billion dollars in free airtime just in terms of like, because of how, like many, how much coverage the news gave. Everything he said. So the fact that Hunt's getting half a billion a year for that, for years is significant. That's a lot of free airtime. Right. It's about 25,000 hours of free right wing propaganda on the radio and TV per year that's marketed and billed as nonpartisan. Interesting, Pete.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Crossfire Energy. It's like we're just having a conversation. Yeah, right.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

He's invented Fox News. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. His shows all air on struggling networks that need free content, which at that point meant the Mutual Radio Network and abc. This quote from what's Fair on the Air gives you a good idea of how episodes of Facts Forum tend to go. One episode of Facts Forum asked whether those advocating the violent overthrow of the US Government should be subject to the death penalty. On the pro side, the answer was yes, of course, such a conspiracy was worse than murder. On the con side, the argument was that such conspirators were only dupes or communist sympathizers. Dangerous. Yes. But those were just misguided pawns whose civil rights should be respected. Thus, as one critic described it, a negative argument against the death penalty for communist conspirators turns into a positive affirmation. The nation is in imminent danger of collapse from subversion. A favorite Facts Forum thesis. Right. So that's how even though they're kind of pretending that this is non biased, everyone, even the left wing argument pushes a right wing narrative. And there are critics who noticed this at the time. In 1954, Ben Bagdikian, which is a real name, wrote a takedown of the Facts Forum. Yeah. Complaining that when it used the terms pro Soviet and un American, it meant, quote, those terms include the Roosevelt and Truman administrations and the people who supported them. Right. So, yeah. And when it refers to American freedom, the show means, among other things, a total absence of government regulation in business and a withdrawal from the United Nations. So they're referring to these things as things everyone believes and agrees with, even though they're very much not.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Right.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Right. Yeah. And we'll talk more about these, his shows, the facts for him, the shows that follow that, and Hunt's bizarre personal life and the things he comes to believe about health and wellness. But I think that's all we've got for part two, so I'm guessing it's gonna have to be a three parter. Princess, how you feeling at the end of this?

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

I'm so ready. I want to know more about this guy. I feel like I'm watching the origin of so much evil.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yes. Well, good stuff, everybody. Good stuff. So that's it, everybody. We're done for the day. Why don't you go and, I don't know. Love yourself, touch grass. Love yourself. Love me. Love someone else.

[Co-host (possibly Sophie or a guest commentator)]

Love your two families.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

Or four.

[Producer/Announcer]

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Full video episodes of behind the Basterds are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com behindthebastards. We love about 40% of you, statistically speaking.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Host (possibly Robert Evans)]

Guaranteed Human.