Part Two: How The U.S. Government Used Aliens To Destroy a Man's Mind

Summary

Behind the Bastards: Part Two - How The U.S. Government Used Aliens To Destroy a Man's Mind

Podcast Information:

• Title: Behind the Bastards
• Hosts/Authors: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Delving deeper into the lives of some of history's most notorious figures, Behind the Bastards explores the bizarre and often unsettling realities that shaped their actions. From Hitler's ideological influences to Saddam Hussein's unexpected side careers, the podcast uncovers the lesser-known facets of these infamous personalities.
• Episode: Part Two: How The U.S. Government Used Aliens To Destroy a Man's Mind
• Release Date: February 13, 2025

---

Introduction

In this gripping episode of Behind the Bastards, the hosts delve into the intriguing and shadowy intersection of government operations and extraterrestrial phenomena. The episode focuses on the story of Paul Benowitz, an electrical engineer whose obsession with UFOs led him down a path of manipulation and psychological unraveling orchestrated by government agents, particularly Richard Doty of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI).

---

Richard Doty and Military Influence

Richard Doty emerges as a central figure in the narrative, portrayed as a government agent deeply entrenched in disinformation campaigns within the UFO community. The hosts discuss Doty's background, highlighting his lineage of military service and his involvement in projects that blur the lines between truth and deception.

Host 2 [05:31]: "Richard Doty is not just the guy who's going to spread a bunch of lies to Paul Benowitz that helps drive him mad."

Doty's credibility is examined through his involvement in various projects and his influence over key UFO-related incidents. His role in manipulating believers like Benowitz is depicted as a strategic move to divert attention from actual military projects, such as those at Kirtland Air Force Base.

---

Paul Benowitz's Descent into Paranoia

Paul Benowitz's journey is meticulously chronicled, detailing how his fascination with UFOs made him susceptible to governmental manipulation. Initially a respected figure in the UFO community, Paul's interactions with Doty and other agents catalyzed his obsession, leading him to believe in elaborate conspiracies involving alien mind control and secret underground bases.

Host 2 [16:48]: "There are three sorts of people, people you will be dealing with. The first are the ones who will believe anything you say. The second are those who will, at least at first, refuse to believe you. The last is the group who won't believe you at first, but might be willing to be convinced."

Benowitz's collaboration with Dr. Leo Sprinkle, a professor specializing in hypnotic regression, further deepens his conviction in the extraterrestrial narrative. Through these sessions, Paul becomes convinced that alien beings are manipulating his and others' perceptions, leading him to develop plans to combat these perceived threats.

---

Disinformation Tactics and Manipulation

The episode underscores the sophisticated tactics employed by government agents like Doty to manipulate UFO enthusiasts. By feeding Paul fabricated evidence and staged incidents, the agents aimed to control the narrative and prevent individuals like Paul from uncovering sensitive military projects.

Host 2 [35:23]: "The letter was actually the creation of Dodie and his colleagues at AFOSI. They were hoping to rope in somebody like Bill, right? Somebody smart enough to have credibility in the subculture, but also who might fall for a fake."

These disinformation efforts are portrayed as part of a broader strategy to maintain secrecy over military advancements, such as the development of stealth bombers and unmanned drone technologies at Kirtland Air Force Base.

---

Impact on UFO Culture and Legacy

Paul Benowitz's unraveling had a profound impact on UFO conspiracy culture, inspiring numerous books and theories that continue to influence modern movements like QAnon. His fabricated stories about underground alien bases and secret wars fueled public paranoia and distrust in government institutions.

Host 2 [54:28]: "Greg Bishop's Project Beta, like that's his basic conclusion, is that, like, Paul might have seen some of the testing stages of the prototype of the stealth bomber."

The hosts draw parallels between Benowitz's experiences and contemporary media, suggesting that his story may have influenced fictional portrayals such as The X-Files, blending fact with fiction to perpetuate enduring myths about government conspiracies and extraterrestrial involvement.

---

Conclusion and Aftermath

The episode concludes with reflections on the tragic downfall of Paul Benowitz, who, despite his initial prominence in the UFO community, succumbed to paranoia and mental instability. His eventual commitment to a mental health facility marked the end of his public involvement with UFO theories, though his legacy persists in the annals of conspiracy lore.

Host 2 [58:41]: "Now, during his communications with the ETs, Paul became convinced that there was a secret war going on. Dozens of base security, and Dulce had been murdered by the aliens in a gunfight."

Despite the manipulations and fabrications, Paul and his wife managed to maintain their relationship, living together for over five decades until his passing in 2003. His story serves as a cautionary tale about the vulnerabilities of individuals entranced by conspiracy theories and the lengths to which institutions may go to preserve secrecy.

---

Notable Quotes

1. Host 2 [05:31]: "Richard Doty is not just the guy who's going to spread a bunch of lies to Paul Benowitz that helps drive him mad."
2. Host 2 [16:48]: "There are three sorts of people, people you will be dealing with. The first are the ones who will believe anything you say. The second are those who will, at least at first, refuse to believe you. The last is the group who won't believe you at first, but might be willing to be convinced."
3. Host 2 [35:23]: "The letter was actually the creation of Dodie and his colleagues at AFOSI. They were hoping to rope in somebody like Bill, right? Somebody smart enough to have credibility in the subculture, but also who might fall for a fake."
4. Host 2 [54:28]: "Greg Bishop's Project Beta, like that's his basic conclusion, is that, like, Paul might have seen some of the testing stages of the prototype of the stealth bomber."

---

Final Thoughts

Behind the Bastards offers a compelling exploration of how government agencies might exploit the fascination with extraterrestrial phenomena to serve clandestine agendas. Through the tragic story of Paul Benowitz, the episode highlights the thin line between belief and manipulation, raising questions about the ethical boundaries of intelligence operations and their profound impact on individuals' lives.

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Note: This summary has been crafted based on the provided transcript and is intended to encapsulate the key themes and discussions from the podcast episode. For a more immersive experience and comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Media.

[Host 2]

Oh, man. Welcome back to behind the Bastards. All of you beautiful people and also all of you ugly people. You know, all. All people are beautiful.

[Host 3]

Except for. I just kind of said that. I didn't. That they're not. That was.

[Brandy Posey]

There's inside and outside beauty.

[Host 2]

You know, there's only one kind. There's only one kind.

[Host 3]

I'm not going to say what it is.

[Host 2]

I'm not going to say which kind of beauty, but there's only one kind.

[Brandy Posey]

That's fair.

[Host 3]

Yeah, it's elbows.

[Brandy Posey]

Mmm. Elbow guy.

[Host 3]

I'm an elbow guy. I'm an elbow guy. Yeah.

[Host 2]

I'm starting the wiki feed of elbows.

[Host 3]

It's just a bunch of, like, really.

[Host 2]

Blurry cropped photos of, like, elbows of different celebrities.

[Host 3]

Oh, my God.

[Brandy Posey]

Do you know there's no nerve endings in your elbow skin?

[Host 3]

That's the hottest thing about it to me.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, I know.

[Host 3]

As an elbow guy, I had a.

[Brandy Posey]

Friend in my comparative religions class that discovered weed and would make everybody bite his elbows the beginning of every class.

[Host 3]

Oh, that. That's a per.

[Host 2]

That's a pervert.

[Host 3]

Oh, that's an elbow pervert right there.

[Brandy Posey]

Yes, he's a. Well, currently he's a born again meteorologist in North Carolina. So, yes, that is a pervert.

[Host 3]

No, I. I can see why you'd.

[Host 2]

Be scared that God is angry at.

[Host 3]

You if you're that kind of pervert, because he is. But that.

[Host 2]

That makes it hotter for a lot of us. Brandy Posey, welcome back to the program.

[Host 3]

You want to plug anything at the top before we get too.

[Host 2]

Too deep into elbows?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, of course. Before we get elbow deep into Bowen.

[Host 3]

Bowen. With Robert and Brandy.

[Brandy Posey]

Getting it down, baby. Yeah. I run a comedy record that I built. It's called Burn this Records. We see quid to create, like, equity between our artists in a way that most comedy labels don't. I have put out 17 albums. Last year was our first year. This year we have about 15. It's digital only, and everybody is funny but a good person, which is a Venn diagram that I wish more people in comedy paid attention to.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Host 3]

Well, I think that's awesome. So check that out, everybody, and let's. Let's get you ready to get back.

[Host 2]

Into this story, into these aliens and to these. And spooks.

[Brandy Posey]

Bo. Deep in aliens.

[Host 3]

Let's go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of bows, Richard Doty probably doesn't have nice elbows. He's our Air Force office of special investigations.

[Host 1]

When you said. When you said bows, I was like, are we talking for Your hair. Are we talking.

[Host 2]

Nope.

[Host 1]

Are we talking speakers? Are we talking nanny bow? There's so many bows. Does he have no bows? No.

[Brandy Posey]

Partners?

[Host 1]

What are we talking about?

[Host 3]

You know what, speaking of bows, I.

[Host 2]

Will let people this.

[Host 3]

Just yesterday I wound up just because of.

[Host 2]

It happened as I was driving like.

[Host 3]

Responding to a three car crash and there was a young woman in the.

[Host 2]

Middle car who was the only one who was hurt. And she was hurt because she had.

[Host 3]

A beret in the back of her hand. It was the claw shape one.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Which is a no go.

[Host 3]

Anyway, don't do those in the car.

[Host 1]

Don't wear those in a car. Do your hair. You can bring your claw clip in the car, but do not wear it while you're. While you're in the car, cuz. Bad.

[Brandy Posey]

Bad. Yeah, yeah. No, I have a friend that is. Her sister's an ER nurse and when she gets in her car, her whole back seat is full of those claws because when it gets in her car and she throws it, she just takes it out in the back seat because the number one thing that she sees in here, her ER room, is that in women's skulls from car accidents.

[Host 3]

Thankfully this lady seemed fine.

[Host 1]

I do like you saying barrette. The way you said it.

[Host 2]

Barrette.

[Host 1]

You said it like so surgical.

[Host 3]

I thought that's what it was called.

[Host 2]

I thought that's what it was called.

[Host 1]

You're not wrong, but you're also wrong.

[Host 3]

Anyway, don't wear those. And also, if you're ever in a.

[Host 2]

Car accident and your head is hurt in any way, shape or form, go.

[Host 3]

Get checked out by a professional.

[Host 2]

Don't just assume it's okay.

[Host 3]

You don't want to wind up like that famous guy's wife.

[Brandy Posey]

No.

[Host 3]

You got one brain, man. Wasn't saying that to be flippant. It's a real problem. Yes. Go to the doctor.

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[Host 3]

So let's talk about fucking UFOs and a guy who didn't go to the doctor.

[Host 2]

Maybe enough.

[Host 3]

Or maybe went too much. I don't know.

[Host 2]

Richard Doty was born sometime around the immediate post war Period.

[Host 3]

He is. I haven't actually run into his exact. That said, I didn't like, go super hardcore digging into it.

[Host 2]

His father and his Uncle Edward were his chief influences growing up, and both were military men.

[Host 3]

This guy is kind of, you know, an early, I think like mid boomer, something like that. And his Uncle Edward had been a.

[Host 2]

Career officer and meteorologist.

[Host 3]

In 1947, he'd been made chief of.

[Host 2]

An Air Force weather research station, working on something called the Atmospheric Divergence Project. Now, decades later, because Richard Doty is not just the guy who's going to.

[Host 3]

Like, spread a bunch of lies to Paul Benowitz that helps drive him mad.

[Host 2]

He also becomes like an alien influencer.

[Host 3]

Claiming that, like, oh, no, I actually did also see real aliens, guys. And you can totally trust me. I know that, like, my whole thing.

[Host 2]

Is I lied to a guy about aliens for years.

[Host 3]

But also you can trust me when I tell you about aliens that I saw.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lied because I also tell the truth. That's how it works.

[Host 2]

Exactly, exactly.

[Host 3]

Now that I'm out, you can trust me. So Richard Doty, the spook and liar kind of guy, has in kind of.

[Host 2]

Modern interviews, tells viewers that the atmospheric divergence project his uncle worked on was an attempt to, quote, change or neutralize gravity around a rocket to aid in space travel.

[Host 3]

Now, I haven't found the exact details.

[Host 2]

In the specific project his uncle worked.

[Host 3]

On, but I don't think this is true because while I did not find the reports on that project, I did.

[Host 2]

Spend way too much of my research time reading through an Air Force handbook on, on meteorological techniques and atmospheric divergence impacts the growth of storm systems in a bunch of ways that are obviously relevant to an Air Force meteorologist and not at all involved with fucking up gravity for space travel.

[Host 3]

Right. This sounds like a normal meteorologist thing to do.

[Host 2]

Richard is a tall tale spinner. Right? Yes.

[Host 3]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

And one of the issues with my.

[Host 3]

Sources, because two of the. I've got a bunch of articles in here that you can, you can find.

[Host 2]

But there's also two books that I read for. This one is Saucers, Spooks and Kooks by Adam Go rightly, and one is Project Beta by Greg Bishop. Both of them are very entertaining. I think Greg's book Project Beta is the better book. Both of these guys also believe in stuff I don't, particularly. Bishop.

[Host 3]

While I think he. Because I've caught there's some stuff in Go Rightly's book that I caught that's just not factually. Just slips that he slipped up on. I think Bishop is more familiar with the subculture, but also Bishop definitely believes.

[Host 2]

A bunch of shit. I don't.

[Host 3]

And you can tell he kind of.

[Host 2]

Is excited at talking with these spooks and spies. And I think he gives them.

[Host 3]

Them a lot more credit than he ought to. Oh, got it.

[Brandy Posey]

He's caught up in the romance of it all.

[Host 3]

I think he is not in a way that I think makes his basic.

[Host 2]

Conclusions wrong or his book not worth reading again. I think it's actually quite worth reading. It's quite a good book and I think he's a good writer. I just don't. I'm not simpatico with him on all of the conclusions he comes to about these guys. I don't mean that as an insult.

[Host 3]

To the man because, again, I liked his book a lot.

[Host 2]

But that is an issue when it comes to trying to figure out shit here.

[Host 3]

And in Project Bait Data, Bishop does.

[Host 2]

Do about, like, the best of any of them at kind of questioning Dodie.

[Host 3]

By saying perhaps this had something to.

[Host 2]

Do with weather control or maybe it was something more prosaic.

[Host 3]

And, like, it didn't.

[Host 2]

It wasn't weather control or gravity.

[Host 3]

It's just studying how this thing that.

[Host 2]

Affects meteorological forecasts work. Very normal thing for a meteorologist to do.

[Host 3]

Anyway.

[Host 2]

Doty joined the Air Force as a young man, just like his pa and uncle.

[Host 3]

And per Bishop, he entered in 1968.

[Host 2]

As a combat security policeman. Doty would later claim he was quote, tested and tracked throughout his career to become a base security guard and then a special agent for foc, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. Now that's how Doty tells the story.

[Host 3]

And I don't think he's. I don't. I think that's very silly because I'm.

[Host 2]

Not an expert on this, but I. I've known a number of people who.

[Host 3]

Were in different military intelligence roles. And I will tell you one thing.

[Host 2]

That is very consistent. Base security guard is not a job that you are scouted for your entire career. Right.

[Host 3]

Like, it's kind of a gig, actually. Like, nobody likes base security. And it's not really what most kids join wanting to do with their lives, Right? No, no.

[Brandy Posey]

It's like a step above base janitor, but like, also the same kind of.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Brandy Posey]

Not to besmirch either job necessarily, but also, like, you're not.

[Host 2]

I'll smirch it some.

[Host 3]

I'm smirching a little here.

[Brandy Posey]

I'll let you just a scooch of Smirch. We'll take it.

[Host 3]

Yeah, yeah. Ye. And Doty really wants people to believe that he was like, he was scouted.

[Host 2]

By the Air Force because like we need a guy we can trust to do security for our very secret, very real alien projects.

[Host 3]

And like, wow.

[Host 2]

We noted from the beginning of his time in the Air Force that he had something special. Right.

[Host 3]

And that's the way he talks about his background.

[Brandy Posey]

This is very observant report, but with aliens it feels like.

[Host 3]

Yes, yes, yes. And you know, FOC is more prestigious than base security. He eventually does, you know, he's a.

[Host 2]

Special agent, he's a sergeant, but he's also a special agent for this and that is like a more prestigious role. But also his job with an AFY isn't the most prestigious thing because other members of that agency are literally.

[Host 3]

This is like the time that he's in is one of like the high points for like spy anywhere in the world. Like history, right. Other guys in FOC are locked in.

[Host 2]

Life and death spy battles with like got some of the best spies on planet Earth, right?

[Host 3]

You know, you've got the foreign, you know, Russian and Chinese agents. Like there's, there's some really interesting going on here.

[Host 2]

Dodie's job during this like great international game is to lie to people who believe they'd been molested by Martians.

[Host 3]

So he doesn't have the sexiest job within this sort of field.

[Brandy Posey]

Right. Not quite espionage.

[Host 3]

Right. He's not James Bond. You know, there are some guys in APOC doing some really like, you can.

[Host 2]

Talk about the ethics of it, but like interesting spy shit.

[Host 3]

He's.

[Host 2]

I, I mean it is interesting, but not in the same way.

[Brandy Posey]

I'd like to see his Bond movie though.

[Host 3]

I would like for sure.

[Brandy Posey]

Y. Yeah, this low rent Bond is definitely a movie that I'd be into.

[Host 3]

Well, that's kind of the premise of.

[Host 2]

The Slow Horses TV show, right? Which does have.

[Host 3]

What's his name, Commissioner Gordon's in it and he's great. I have mixed opinions on it, but he's always a charm.

[Host 2]

The original commissioner. Well, not the original, the one from the Nolan movies. I forget his name.

[Host 3]

Gary Oldman.

[Host 2]

So Doty today claims that right after basic training. And again, this is also bullshit.

[Host 3]

He was taken to a room and shown footage of UFOs and like, like I don't believe that if there are.

[Host 2]

Aliens that the government has evidence of, obviously there's some people that they let into that secret within military intelligence. It's not going to be anyone who.

[Host 3]

Just finished basic because you know who can finish basic training?

[Host 2]

Almost anyone.

[Host 3]

Like that's part of the point.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah. Hey, 18 year old without a frontal lobe that is fully formed, you want to see aliens right now? Like unless I want to fuck with you specifically, maybe, but like not on a, A, like an official constructive capacity for sure.

[Host 3]

Yeah. Hey, guy whose primary hobby is getting.

[Host 2]

Blackout drunk every single night of the.

[Host 3]

Week, let's, let's show you an alien video.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, exactly. You know all those push ups you did, guess what? Here's also aliens. You passed the test.

[Host 3]

Yeah. Now this is generally described as a test and I think that's how like.

[Host 2]

Bishop describes it in his book, is that Dodie was being tested to see who or at least Dodi claims he.

[Host 3]

Was being tested to see, you know.

[Host 2]

If he could be trusted with more detailed info about extraterrestrials.

[Host 3]

So I guess there's a possibility that.

[Host 2]

Maybe something like this did happen and it wasn't real aliens, but it was.

[Host 3]

Just like let's show a bunch of guys alien footage and like see who leaks it, right? That they saw something, you know, see.

[Host 2]

Who we can trust.

[Host 3]

Stuff like I don't think even then I kind of doubt it because they.

[Host 2]

Weren'T really doing that to guys who just finished basic. But shit like that is happening within different kind of intelligence agencies.

[Host 3]

And it's not just aliens they lie.

[Host 2]

About, they disinfo is given out to.

[Host 3]

People during this period of time in.

[Host 2]

Different intel roles just to see if they can be trusted. Right?

[Host 3]

Like that's a thing that happens. Doty also claims that he served as.

[Host 2]

A guard at Area 51 where he saw a UFO. Now again, Area 51 is a real base.

[Host 3]

They are really doing experimental shit with planes there.

[Host 2]

This could be true.

[Host 3]

And in fact the story he tells might might be true, but not in.

[Host 2]

A way he wants you to think, because he claims while he's there he sees them wheeling out this huge black.

[Host 3]

Disc that's some sort of craft that they're trying to get into the atmospher that they like launch. And it doesn't look like anything he's ever seen.

[Host 2]

And his commanding officer takes him aside, right, because he sees. Doty's fascinated in this. And here's the conversation that is related in the book Project Beta. Airman Doty, do you know what that craft was? Asked the officer. No sir. That's what is generally known as a ufo.

[Host 3]

And it's not one of ours, it's on loan.

[Host 2]

Yes sir. Someday, if you play your cards right, you Will learn, know a lot more. But for now, you are to tell no one about this and you are not to discuss it with anyone. Is that clear? Doty never talked about it again in.

[Host 3]

And first off, obviously he did because you're telling us the story.

[Brandy Posey]

So, like from reading it in a book, it's definitely been recounted several times.

[Host 2]

But also that could be basically true and have nothing to do with aliens. He could have been on guard duty, seen a weird craft that maybe, maybe.

[Host 3]

Like was a French or Canadian thing that like we were doing tests on. Right. So it's on loan and his boss.

[Host 2]

Is just kind of like, hey, you.

[Host 3]

Know, maybe if you play your cards right, you'll. You'll get that will trust you with more stuff.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 3]

And I, I don't know. I don't know if Dodie actually gets.

[Host 2]

Much more trust, but this could be largely accurate.

[Host 3]

Although I, I don't think that's likely.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

That said, like, there's evidence. He is work.

[Host 2]

He probably. He definitely does see experimental craft through his job for FOC later in his career because he's working at bases where they're doing that. That doesn't mean that he's told what.

[Host 3]

It all is because they, they silo that info.

[Host 2]

Even if it's your job to stop people from finding out about these programs, you may not be told much about them because it' thing and you don't. Right.

[Host 3]

You need to stop people from filming the weird craft.

[Host 2]

You don't need to know how it works. You don't need to know what it is. Right.

[Brandy Posey]

Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They don't want curious people working on like lower levels of this stuff at all. Like, they're not. They want you to just come in and be like, my job is to do this and then have blinders up to everything else.

[Host 2]

I didn't see shit. This is why I've been saying this for years. The government should have all of its security done by street level drug dealers. You know, those guys can keep their fucking mouth shut.

[Host 3]

That, you know.

[Brandy Posey]

Absolutely. Ain't no snitches.

[Host 3]

Exactly. Exactly. Area 51, all security provided by coke dealers. Just don't give them any coke. Then they talk about everything.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 3]

You gotta keep them sober. Otherwise it ends very badly.

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, man, what a fun place. Just a bunch of sober coke dealers.

[Host 3]

Yeah, a bunch of sober coke dealers at Area 51. This is gonna end well. So there's evidence that a lot of. You know, Dodie is a credulous guy.

[Host 2]

He does come to at least he will claim to believe in this. He might just be fucking with everybody.

[Host 3]

I don't really know. But a lot of guys in his.

[Host 2]

Kind of level in different intel agencies are believers themselves, right? So at any rate, Doty claims that his chief mentor in spy shit was a guy named Celie Howard, a former insurance salesman. According to Doty, he gave him this sage advice early in his spook career. There are three sorts of people, people you will be dealing with. The first are the ones who will believe anything you say. The second are those who will, at least at first, refuse to believe you. The last is the group who won't believe you at first, but might be willing to be convinced.

[Host 3]

And what I find interesting about that.

[Host 2]

Is those last two groups are the.

[Host 3]

Same group of people. Yes, the people who don't believe you.

[Host 2]

At first, but you can make them believe you.

[Host 3]

I don't see the difference.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah, no, it's just one is just on a longer timeline and eventually. Yeah, eventually, yeah, sure.

[Host 2]

So as soon as Paul Benowitz called the Air Force with results of his surveillance, they knew they might have a problem. The Air Force Office of Special Investigations.

[Host 3]

Very quickly became concerned that Paul Benowitz.

[Host 2]

Had stumbled onto a secret laser based tracking system located in Kirtland. At least that's one of the things he might have stumbled on. Greg Bishop, who wrote Project Beta, noted these transmissions sounded like gibberish language that had been distorted and sped up. Or to a true believer like Paul, they sounded like alien speech. Edwards, chief of of Kirtland based security, had previously described Doty to a friend at the NSA as his drug man.

[Host 3]

And so that's less cool than it sounds.

[Host 2]

As Greg Bishop writes, the duty simply involved checking for allegations of illegal drug use on the base. But it was only one of Agent Doty's minor assignments. The FOC has jurisdiction over all criminal and security investigations at Air Force facilities. Most FOC agents must carry a high security clearance. Agents need to know what they are protecting so that security threats can be recognized quickly. Benowitz carefully described to Doty what he had seen and recorded, all while trying to keep what he really thought was going on to himself for the moment. And this is where I think Bishop is too credulous.

[Host 3]

Because again, think back to Roswell, the first guy. Like they don't tell the people who.

[Host 2]

Are looking and responding to that crashed balloon that Project Mogul exists.

[Host 3]

It's very common for these guys not to be in the loop about stuff, right?

[Host 2]

Especially since he's just a sergeant you know, like he's not a super high level guy here.

[Host 3]

That said, Dodie is kind of sent to talk to Benowitz. And he's like, hey, hey, why don't.

[Host 2]

You come to the base and we can talk about your research? And so Paul heads to the base and he shows Dodie what he's got.

[Host 3]

And Dodie is initially kind of bored.

[Host 2]

And then he perks up when Paul starts to show him his radio array. He returns to the base to talk with some NSA colleagues about bringing an expert out to Paul's home to see what he'd built. So he visits Paul at his house, and this time with an actual light.

[Host 3]

Like scientist in tow.

[Host 2]

Another engineer, a guy named Lou Miles.

[Host 3]

And the fact that Paul has now.

[Host 2]

Been invited to the base to talk.

[Host 3]

He's had a guy come over to.

[Host 2]

His house from Air Force Intelligence.

[Host 3]

Paul takes this as evidence that I'm on the right track and the Air Force supports me. I'm now kind of helping the Air.

[Host 2]

Force find evidence that there's aliens.

[Host 3]

I kind of got my X Files.

[Host 2]

Job job because they think I'm so cool and smart, buddy.

[Host 3]

I know it's really sick because he's just trying to help, you know?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, no, he is just trying.

[Host 3]

He just wants to keep his country safe.

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, they're sizing you up, buddy, to see what kind of a threat you are.

[Host 3]

Oh, no, my man. No, not at all. So the expert Dodie brings to Paul's.

[Host 2]

Home is Lou Miles. Like Valdez, that state trooper, Miles was a guy who wanted to believe he had been involved to an extent with Project Blue Book, which was like a multi year Air force investigation into UFOs.

[Host 3]

It's one of the big seminal moments.

[Host 2]

In early UFO history. Right?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

He was also now the chief scientist for Kirtland's Test Center. So he knew the reality behind a lot of the strange aerial phenomena that guys like Paul credited to aliens.

[Host 3]

So he's, he's both like, open to believing, but also like, oh, but I know that.

[Host 2]

I know what you're actually seeing. And it's not aliens.

[Host 3]

It's this thing that we're, we're working on.

[Host 2]

Nevertheless, he was good at talking to Benowitz while Doty hung back and took photos with a hidden camera for the.

[Host 3]

Nsa, who was also involved in this. It's kind of murky. Exactly where FOC begins and the NSA ends. And like there's some evidence the CIA is also gets involved. There's like, a lot of people are.

[Host 2]

Kind of interested in what Paul is doing. But no one's interested in Paul's evidence of alien interference. They're again worried about, like interested as.

[Host 3]

To whether or not he's actually like.

[Host 2]

Gotten any encrypted shit. And they also think he might be useful because being an actually brilliant engineer.

[Host 3]

Working in the aerospace industry and someone.

[Host 2]

Who goes to these UFO conventions, he's kind of trusted within the UFO community. So if they want to get a.

[Host 3]

Lot of people to like pay attention.

[Host 2]

To something other than the real shady.

[Host 3]

Shit they're doing at Kirtland, he might.

[Host 2]

Be able to convince them. Right. He might be able to distract attention away from the real shit that's being done that they want to hide.

[Host 3]

So yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

For the next year, Paul waits for updates from the military and he continues his special interest exploring extraterrestrial phenomena. In May of The next year, 1980, a 26 year old woman named Myrna Hansen called the state police to claim that she and her 6 year old had been accosted by alien visitors near Eagle Nest, New Mexico. The state troopers basically shrugged and handed the case over to the only cop they knew who dealt with this sort of shit. Gabe Valdez.

[Brandy Posey]

Yep.

[Host 2]

If I'm remembering correctly, I believe Valdez's.

[Host 3]

Attitude is that Myrna was probably a plant. That's not clear to me. Again, a lot of sketchy shit's going on here.

[Brandy Posey]

Immediately doesn't trust the woman.

[Host 3]

Okay, yeah, well, but also this kind of shit was going on, so I don't know.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, man, this six year old fucking with me.

[Host 3]

Right, Right.

[Host 2]

So Gabe calls our boy Paul and they go off to meet Myrna. Now, by the start of the 80s, the science of hypnotic regression, which is.

[Host 3]

Not really a science, had taken off.

[Host 2]

Among people who believed, or wanted to believe that they had been abducted by aliens.

[Brandy Posey]

So let me turn you into a chicken first and then tell me if you saw the aliens or not. Right?

[Host 3]

Yeah. I'm going to hypnotize you and then walk you like, say a bunch of.

[Host 2]

Leading things that get you to tell a fun alien story, right?

[Host 3]

Yeah. You know, a lot of this stuff is. Some similar shit's happening with the Satanic Panic.

[Host 2]

We're just into the idea.

[Host 3]

I mean, there's a lot of this.

[Host 2]

In the X Files, right?

[Host 3]

This idea that people have memories locked away that this psychologist or psychiatrist who definitely doesn't ever wind up fucking his patients can unlock.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah, people are unlocking.

[Host 2]

Super cool.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah. People aren't susceptible to being influenced to say things to.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Brandy Posey]

Please. Somebody either.

[Host 3]

Yes, whatsoever, definitely Not. Yeah. Speaking of things that aren't sketchy, sponsors.

[Host 2]

Of this podcast never. Never. They would never do anything illegal. Although we did just find out that. What's that?

[Host 3]

Food box company has child labor, so.

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, which one? I'd be curious.

[Host 3]

I don't know, Sophie, which one was it?

[Host 1]

I don't remember.

[Host 2]

One of them.

[Host 3]

Anyway, here's ads.

[David Eagleman]

This is David Eagleman, host of the science podcast Inner Cosmos. For Valentine's Day, we're diving into the question, what is love from the brain's point of view? What does love have to do with how you were raised? Or the symmetry of someone's face or the smell of their underarms? Why does the character of love change throughout our lives? Why is heartbreak like drug withdrawal? And what does any of this have to do with sweaty T shirts or rom coms or monogamous animals and the future of love and AI? Join me for this week's Inner Cosmos. For a deep dive into the neurobiology of love, listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host 3]

We're back. Sponsors love that sort of thing.

[Brandy Posey]

Hey, that's what they. That's their problem for going dynamic.

[Host 3]

That's right. That's right.

[Host 2]

So Gabe called our boy Paul, and.

[Host 3]

Off they went to meet Myrna Benowitz.

[Host 2]

Who is working for that civilian organization.

[Host 3]

Not working for, but is like one.

[Host 2]

Of the head guys at apro.

[Host 3]

That civilian looking into UFO things and. And like, is also working with this actual sheriff's deputy partners.

[Host 2]

He and.

[Host 3]

And Gabe partner with a University of.

[Host 2]

Wyoming professor who's lit. Who's an ex, a quote unquote expert in hypnotic regression. And this guy's name is literally Dr. Leo Sprinkle.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, great stuff. What a name.

[Host 3]

Great stuff, man.

[Brandy Posey]

Good on you, Leo, for making it to adulthood.

[Host 3]

That's a. Yeah, that's a real boy named sue situation.

[Brandy Posey]

Leonardo Sprinkle.

[Host 3]

Leonardo Sprinkle. Yeah. Oh, fuck me. So in his book, Saucers, Spooks and.

[Host 2]

Kooks, Adam Go rightly summarizes. Benowitz by this time had convinced himself that the ETs were transmitting a mind control beam to repress Myrna Hansen's memories. Benowitz believed that the ETs were likely beaming him in an attempt to disrupt his ongoing UFO probe. To thwart this extraterrestrial electronic harassment, Benowitz arranged for Hansen's regression to take place in his 1979 Lincoln Town Car with multiple shootings. Sheets of aluminum foil draped over the windows to deflect the dreaded alien beams. You know what's connected these perceived beams to cattle mutilations?

[Host 3]

It's so cool. I love this. He's rapping his car in tenfold. No, he sees the aliens are blocking our memory with the beads.

[Brandy Posey]

He's married, right? Is he a wife?

[Host 3]

Oh, yeah, he's got a wife.

[Host 2]

And she is a long suffering.

[Host 3]

I. I don't know much about her.

[Host 2]

But a saint, I'll say that much.

[Host 3]

No, she's putting up with a lot. Hot.

[Brandy Posey]

I know. The power of disassociation. This woman is capable of, man.

[Host 3]

Oh, yeah.

[Brandy Posey]

It's like, honey, I need the car to go to the grocery store. No, I have to go interview this woman. I got the aluminum cable.

[Host 3]

Where's your tinfoil?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, get that tinfoil out, babe. We need it for the potatoes tonight. Absolutely not. I need it to protect us from aliens.

[Host 3]

And again, he's.

[Host 2]

He's been talking to Dodie for months at this point.

[Host 3]

And Dodie is kind of just like every. He's.

[Host 2]

Yes, anding everything Paul says, right?

[Host 3]

Like.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah, that sounds real, Paul. Yeah, definitely.

[Host 3]

Oh, yeah, no, no.

[Host 2]

Aluminum flow. Great idea, man. Yeah, absolutely.

[Host 3]

Absolutely.

[Brandy Posey]

So is this where album foil comes from? Is this like the. The origin of that? Like, this will block waves?

[Host 2]

Part of it, yeah.

[Host 3]

I don't know if Paul is the only guy who starts it, but this is like he is on the ground.

[Host 2]

Floor of the aluminum foil will stop.

[Host 3]

The aliens from reading your mind thing.

[Host 2]

Yes, that's definitely fair to say.

[Host 3]

He's among. Among the.

[Host 2]

Because he's very influential in this culture.

[Host 3]

Yes.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 3]

So we can see at this point.

[Host 2]

He'S already kind of starting to go over the edge. Right?

[Host 3]

Yeah. Paul begins writing analysis of Myrna's hypnotic.

[Host 2]

Regression sessions, replete with lines like the alien does all caps. Kill with the beam.

[Host 3]

Generally.

[Brandy Posey]

Generally, huh?

[Host 3]

Kill with a beam, huh?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah. Where are those bodies? Where are those bodies, Polyboy?

[Host 3]

Okay, Paul.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Now, the reality is that Hansen had.

[Host 2]

Just brought up a bunch of existent UFO lore during her sessions, right?

[Host 3]

She complained about missing time.

[Host 2]

She described being picked up in a tractor beam. She claimed an alien crewman had brandished a silver knife before cutting into a cow's chest. And she eventually described being taken to an underground base where a metallic device was put inside her brain.

[Host 3]

Now, this is part of why there's.

[Host 2]

Some theorizing that, like, maybe she was.

[Host 3]

A plant is this is when.

[Host 2]

And Paul is the guy who really does more than anyone to start this. This is when you start getting these UFO conspiracies about underground bases, and they're.

[Host 3]

Usually either like, bases that are our.

[Host 2]

Military shares with the aliens, or maybe the aliens run the base.

[Host 3]

You know, there's some stories about them.

[Host 2]

Having fights with the army and whatnot.

[Host 3]

And these bases underground. But the real thing behind this is.

[Host 2]

That a bunch of people in Albuquerque had watched. And, like, this is something that Paul.

[Host 3]

Would have seen from his house as.

[Host 2]

The Air force dug this massive underground nuclear storage space, like the largest weapons underground weapons storage base ever. Ever.

[Host 3]

Or at least at that point in time. And so people are like, wondering, what's this really for? And the answer is pretty evil. Like it's for nukes.

[Brandy Posey]

But, yeah, yeah, it's a whole full of nukes. Yeah.

[Host 3]

Yeah, there's a lot of theories as to why. So. Hansen also claimed, per Binowitz, that she.

[Host 2]

Had picked up an std described as a vaginal disease, like streptococcy bacillus from the aliens.

[Host 3]

Paul wrote to his colleagues at the.

[Host 2]

Volunteer alien hunting group that, quote, we are trying to cope, culture it. No luck as yet. Also, it has evaded all of our.

[Host 3]

Known antibiotics with penicillin.

[Brandy Posey]

Damn. Nobody's doing sex ed on these aliens. That's the problem. They gotta learn to wrap it up. Whatever it is. You gotta wrap it up, though.

[Host 3]

Paul, you are an electrical engineer. I don't think that you are qualified to say that it's an un. Like, it can't be. Like, it's. It's a.

[Host 2]

It's got to be an alien std. Maybe it's a normal one. Maybe it's just a normal.

[Host 3]

What?

[Host 2]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host 3]

You're not a doctor.

[Host 2]

Paul, you should. First off, you should be giving this lady antibiotics.

[Host 3]

Paul, you're. You're not a doctor.

[Brandy Posey]

You're really.

[Host 3]

You're really not.

[Host 2]

So he also revealed that Myrna was being, quote, badly beaten on by the alien with their beams 24 hours a day.

[Host 3]

And once Myrna starts talking to him.

[Host 2]

About how the she's just constantly being beam attacked, Paul starts to believe that he too is being beaten on with beams. And he urges his colleagues, who plan to do regression work to lock themselves in a car in a garage coated with three layers of aluminum foil to protect themselves from the beams.

[Host 3]

He's doing well is what you'd say at this point. He's doing great, Paul. Our boy Paul. Very, very healthy. Making rational choices.

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, Paul, Paul, you've fallen so far. You were doing so good, buddy.

[Host 3]

So Doty is occasionally checking in with Paul but he's also spending the intervening months 79 early 1980 working on another mark.

[Host 2]

And this guy is a journalist, a.

[Host 3]

Quote unquote journalist, depending on how you.

[Host 2]

See it, with a reputation for he is considered to be one of the more rigorous guys within the UFO community.

[Host 3]

By the UFO community.

[Host 2]

Take of that what you will. His name is George Moore, at least.

[Host 3]

That'S how he's described in Project Beta. But also the author of Project Beta really likes this guy and is like impressed by him. So I don't feel the same way about more.

[Host 2]

Go Rightly's narrative makes him out to.

[Host 3]

Be like less, more of like one.

[Host 2]

Of an interchangeable number of UFO kind of weirdos.

[Host 3]

Although one who is you know, reached.

[Host 2]

Out to by the government to spread disinfo.

[Host 3]

And Moore claims that like he's down with this, right? And the reason we're talking about him.

[Host 2]

Is that he is the co author.

[Host 3]

Of that book, that first big book that gets like UFOs back in vogue, right?

[Host 2]

He's interviewing that guy from Roswell.

[Host 3]

He's one of the guys who helps make Roswell into like the thing that it is in our culture, right?

[Host 2]

He's written a bunch of other stuff.

[Host 3]

You know.

[Host 2]

He's a very influential figure within this.

[Host 3]

Field and that inspires Doty and a.

[Host 2]

Colleague to approach him. In July of 1980, Jim Lorenzen of APRO receives a letter with no return address claiming to tell the story of an 18 year old civil Air Patrol.

[Host 3]

Member who had cited a UFO and then been threatened by a man in.

[Host 2]

Black named Mr. Huck. The young man had reported this to a Mr. Dobie at Afosi, right?

[Host 3]

That's the Air Force, that's Doty's agency.

[Host 2]

So Lauren gets this letter and he thinks it's weird and he sends it to Bill Mitchell, who's the best journalist he knows and or Bill Moore, who's the best journalist he knows.

[Host 3]

And Moore is immediately is like oh this is bullshit. And he knows it because he does some actual journalism.

[Host 2]

Like he reaches out to the named.

[Host 3]

Witness and the witness is like well yeah, I saw some like weird lights but I never was, I was never.

[Host 2]

Threatened by a man in like none.

[Host 3]

Of the rest of this is real man.

[Brandy Posey]

The tiniest amount of journalism.

[Host 3]

Yeah it really, that's all it takes at a lot of cases.

[Brandy Posey]

Let me just double check this.

[Host 3]

Let me literally just ask this guy if this happened.

[Host 2]

The letter was actually the creation of Dodie and his colleagues at aphoci. They were hoping to rope in somebody like Bill, right? Somebody smart enough to have credibility in the subculture, but also who might fall for a fake.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Host 2]

They didn't succeed in tricking him, but they continued fishing. In September of 1980, Moore finished a blockbuster book, the Roswell Incident, which is.

[Host 3]

Yeah, that's one of the things that reignites public entrance.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

So military intelligence gets very interested after this point. And while he's doing his book tour, he keeps getting calls at radio stations.

[Host 3]

Where like guys will be like, hey.

[Host 2]

Do you want to have a meeting?

[Host 3]

You know, I'm from a government intel.

[Host 2]

Agency and I'd like to talk. And he is, he eventually agrees. And he's met by a man who dresses and acts very much like a spy in the movie.

[Host 3]

Now my opinion on what's happening here.

[Host 2]

Is that there's some two way feedback. Moore desperately wants to be a journalist.

[Host 3]

Working on classified fringe like X Files.

[Host 2]

Kind of stories, right? And he wants to feel like he's part of this great game of spies and spooks. Now the spooks he's talking to, these.

[Host 3]

Are real spies, but they're not the.

[Host 2]

High level operators working to unearth, you.

[Host 3]

Know, Russian nuclear secrets or doing the fucking cool shit that they make movies about.

[Host 2]

They, there are some enlisted guys at.

[Host 3]

The Air Force mostly tasked with lying.

[Host 2]

To rubes to cover up flight testing, right?

[Host 3]

Yeah. Here's the thing, this is like a.

[Host 2]

Two way street because they also want to feel like they're doing cool spy shit, right?

[Host 3]

And so Dodie and George Moore, part.

[Host 2]

Of what they're both doing because they're.

[Host 3]

Both much more rational than Paul is at this point.

[Host 2]

They're kind of larping together in my opinion.

[Host 3]

You know, they're kind of like, well, Dodie, I get to play like I'm.

[Host 2]

This very serious man in black and Moore is like.

[Host 3]

And I get to play like I'm.

[Host 2]

Fucking Fox Mulder almost, right.

[Host 3]

You know, the show's not on the air at this point, but that's what.

[Host 2]

They'Re both getting here, right? And more is offered a deal by, by Dodie and a colleague. Help us out with some odd jobs, right?

[Host 3]

We need some like deniable work that.

[Host 2]

You can do and we'll pass you some classified UFO information.

[Host 3]

Right?

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, I see. Got it.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Brandy Posey]

That's how that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

And the first dossier that Dodie and his friend hand over is bullshit. Like, George again does some minor reporting.

[Host 3]

And is able to figure this out.

[Host 2]

From Bishop, Bishop's book quote, after a few preliminaries, the question started, well, what did you discover. Moore threw the paper down on the table and trying to sound less annoyed than he actually was, replied, this whole mess is a lie. None of these people exist. The agent and Dodie looked at each other and smiled. What's going on? Asked Moore. You passed the test, said the man whom he would eventually refer to with the codename Falcon. Within a few years, Moore and his colleagues would begin to assign code names to their growing coterie of contacts so they could turn talk freely about developments without fear of identification if they were overheard.

[Host 3]

And, you know, maybe this was a test. I think it's likely that they were like, okay, so we figured out this is.

[Host 2]

Let's just tell him that that was.

[Host 3]

A test and then, you know, stroke.

[Host 2]

His ego and he'll believe the next thing we say. Maybe, right?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're not going to keep refining from our side until we actually make him a believer. And he'll feel great because he's passed all these tests. So he's right. Gonna start looking less and less because of how smart he believes he is too.

[Host 3]

Yeah, right.

[Host 2]

And they, they hand him some and he'll ad. I knew some of what I was.

[Host 3]

Putting out into the UFO community was.

[Host 2]

Was bunk, but I think some of it's real too.

[Host 3]

And like, he's, you know, he's, he's.

[Host 2]

Being a shady character here as well. Now, unlike Paul Benowitz, George is a pretty, I think, a mentally resilient guy. Like, he definitely is a believer to.

[Host 3]

Some extent, but I think he also, I don't think he takes it as.

[Host 2]

Seriously as Paul does. Right. I don't think this is breaking his brain. I think he's having a good time. Right?

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

My favorite story from Moore is that Dodie and his partner apparently thought mor might be gay and decided to test.

[Host 3]

Him by, like, one day when they're hanging out, they, like, park the car and Moore is like. And a bunch of men start walking.

[Host 2]

Past the car wearing tight pants or.

[Host 3]

High heels and dresses that, like, fit really weird. And like, it doesn't seem like they, they would, like, are comfortable in. And apparently this is a test because.

[Host 2]

They want him to troll the gay.

[Host 3]

Bars of Santa Monica looking for a.

[Host 2]

Guy that the FOC wants for some reason.

[Host 3]

Oh, my God, I don't know.

[Brandy Posey]

It was a slow day in the office when they came up with that one. They're just like, ah, well, we got to do something this weekend. Right?

[Host 3]

All right, so Dodie and his colleagues.

[Host 2]

They get some of what they want out of Moore.

[Host 3]

Right?

[Host 2]

He Launders some info into the UFO community.

[Host 3]

Some of the disinfo they want to distract from their real programs. But he's also not, he's a little too smart, right?

[Host 2]

He's not willing to destroy himself publicly as much as was necessary for the kind of misinformation that they wanted to get out. And this is where Paul Benowitz reenters the story.

[Host 3]

It is obvious by 8081 that this is a guy who is not well, but also he's respected and he is a guy who because of his tech.

[Host 2]

Acumen might endanger some top secret operations.

[Host 3]

So the decision was basically made, let's fuck him up a little, right?

[Host 2]

Paul gets invited to give a speech at Kirtland and most of the attendees leave before he's done.

[Host 3]

But like one of them is like, this is really interesting stuff, Paul.

[Host 2]

And that just lights his ego on fire.

[Host 3]

Paul so happy to hear this.

[Host 2]

He applies for Air Force grants which he does not receive. But he apparently gets an NSA grant.

[Host 3]

And I think that's maybe the NSA fucking with him because some real fuckery is about to happen here.

[Brandy Posey]

I love an ironic grant. Ironic grant money still spends.

[Host 3]

It's a little more messed up than even that. So Doty is now spending hours with.

[Host 2]

Paul Benowitz and he claims that they became friends and that he found the orders he received to spread lies to Paul personally distasteful. If you watch the documentary Mirage Men, you'll see a lot of Dodie and he does express a degree of what kind of feels like real regret over what he did to Paul. He is also a spy and a professional liar. So I, I don't know that I believe he's really. Or he just knows that he needs to perform. Regret. Right.

[Host 3]

I think that's probably likelier. Yeah. So yeah.

[Brandy Posey]

What's. What do you think? Like the like the internal notes of a person that constantly lies are like, is it just like a notebook? Is it like a series of post its around their house? How do you keep that shit straight? It sounds exhausting.

[Host 3]

I, I don't. You know one of the things that.

[Host 2]

You get when you like read these.

[Host 3]

Stories and like the way in which a lot of the writers and quote unquote journalists who cover this stuff, the.

[Host 2]

Degree of credulity they have to these.

[Host 3]

Guys stories, the thing that becomes clear to me is like oh, this is.

[Host 2]

Your first time being lied to by.

[Host 3]

A weirdo in the desert. Like I spent a lot of my childhood and like not childhood, like young adulthood and like off grid Places just letting.

[Host 2]

Listening to, like, lies from dudes at bars and stuff.

[Host 3]

I've heard a lot of crazy stories that definitely aren't true, and that's a ton of fun. But I. I think some of these. These people just, like, decide they want to live as if that's real, you know, that's fair. Yeah.

[Brandy Posey]

God, how many times, how many timeshares do you think they own?

[Host 3]

It feels like, oh, my God, these guys, These guys are very, very vulnerable to timeshares. So on some of his early visits.

[Host 2]

To hang with Paul, he's shown a complex computer system. Doty is that Benowitz had constructed and had his employees help him build to these encrypted messages.

[Host 3]

Right. It's unclear what's actually happening. Is he just getting random static and then like running it through an algorithm to like, create text based on that and then kind of going through it? Almost like it's one of those, like.

[Host 2]

Word puzzles and just like picking up words out of a feed of words that, like.

[Host 3]

And then saying like, oh, this is.

[Host 2]

You know, a message from the aliens.

[Host 3]

Right? Because some people will say, like, it.

[Host 2]

Looked like gibberish to me, but he.

[Host 3]

Would pull out, you know, five or six words from this, like, like, paragraph of nonsense and say, like, this is.

[Host 2]

The real message, Right?

[Host 3]

Yeah. And this is a quote from Dodie.

[Host 2]

Benowitz had the computer rigged up to antennas on his roof that included a small microwave dish. And he would look at the screen and there would be images on the screen that certainly wasn't an alien, but he was convinced that it was.

[Host 3]

I would actually tell him, I don't see anything.

[Host 2]

And he said, I see it and I can hear them. And he had these earphones he would put on, and he said, I can hear them talking.

[Host 3]

And I asked Paul, what language it they speaking?

[Host 2]

He said, they're speaking their language. And he wrote a hundred page document about the alien language. When he went out to Kirtland to give his presentation to all these generals, he presented them with that information.

[Host 3]

So the nsa, and this is probably.

[Host 2]

Where the NSA gets heavily involved.

[Host 3]

And maybe why they give him that grant because a plan gets hatched to.

[Host 2]

Gift Paul with a new computer, right. That he's told is a gift from.

[Host 3]

Afocal, some accounts, maybe Dodie offered him the machine.

[Host 2]

The story you'll hear more often is that an Air force consultant named Dr.

[Host 3]

J. Allen Hynek, who's a former scientific.

[Host 2]

Advisor for Project Blue Book and a.

[Host 3]

Big guy in the alien community.

[Host 2]

Now, I think he denies this, but you'll hear that, too.

[Host 3]

We don't really know exactly what happened here because I've also heard, like, the NSA did it.

[Host 2]

I've heard that the Air Force did it.

[Host 3]

I don't know. Adam Gora rightly notes this computer had.

[Host 2]

Been provided at the behest of the U.S. air Force. And embedded in the software was a code that generated an alien language. With the aid of the Air Force computer, Benowitz claimed he established constant direct communications with the alien using a form of hex decimal code with graphics and printout.

[Host 3]

Now.

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, man.

[Host 3]

So what's happening here probably is that because some versions of the story say.

[Host 2]

That the NSA was literally set up across the street in a rented house sending messages directly to Paul's compute.

[Host 3]

It was maybe a little less direct.

[Host 2]

Than that, but basically he's got this.

[Host 3]

Machine that's probably programmed to allow them.

[Host 2]

To send him fake messages from aliens.

[Host 3]

And so he starts getting messages like this.

[Host 2]

Ground. Ground. Women of Earth are needed. Flexible. The next discharges our ship. Women do not command the north. Among us, you have many friends. Water, very short. Resist all attempts at alteration. Listen, Orange.

[Host 3]

Make peace. And Paul doesn't know what to make of this. He becomes convinced, actually, that this is the aliens trying to trick him into thinking that they're peaceful, but he knows they're really dangerous.

[Brandy Posey]

He's so close. He's getting there.

[Host 3]

Yeah. He's getting there, yeah.

[Host 2]

Greg Valdez, who's Gabe's son, visited Benowitz during this period and he described seeing the computer in use. He would type a question into the computer into in a very complex, for.

[Host 3]

The time period form of a computer.

[Host 2]

Program, much like a current email. Much to everyone's surprise, he would get an answer to the questions he was asking. Sometimes he would get an immediate response, and sometimes it would take several minutes. He would even receive very crude and basic pictures or graphics on his computer of these aliens. Some of these pictures resembled birds with reptile features and some resembled reptiles with bird features. During this question and answer session, Gabe instructed Paul to ask the simple question, where are you from? Paul already knew the answer to the question because he had already asked the question, and he answered it verbally. When it response came back on the computer, it simply said, the Zeta Reticuli star system.

[Host 3]

So they're now really fucking with this guy in a way that's very irresponsible.

[Brandy Posey]

I mean, who. I want to know who's writing this stuff? Because that's the best job on the base. That's right.

[Host 2]

Maybe Dodie. It's Probably a team of guys.

[Host 3]

Right? Because Dodie, there's, there's, you know, some evidence he was working with the nsa.

[Host 2]

So maybe it's multiple. It's almost certainly multiple people feeding him.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

But, yeah, the result is that Paul grows convinced that the US government has signed a treaty with aliens, perhaps to breed some sort of hybrids, and they've been given real estate in an underground base near Dulce, New Mexico. This paid played the happy dual role of covering up ongoing weird experiments around Dulce.

[Host 3]

You know, there's that poison gas hole.

[Host 2]

And diverting the attention of Paul and others away from Kirtland Air Force Base.

[Host 3]

And towards somewhere less harmful.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 3]

For their ends, you know?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Host 2]

Now, during his communications with the ETs, Paul became convinced that there was a secret war going on. Dozens of base security, and Dulce had been murdered by the aliens in a gunfight. He wrote up plans to lay siege to Dulce base and began working to develop a sort of beam weapon that.

[Host 3]

Could kill aliens now.

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, Paul, wow.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Brandy Posey]

Okay.

[Host 3]

Yeah, now we're making beam weapons.

[Host 2]

How, buddy?

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, yeah. He's like, better hope the aliens don't have aluminum foil.

[Host 2]

Listen, folks, if you, if you have a friend who's making beam weapons to.

[Host 3]

Fight the underground aliens, I, I actually.

[Host 2]

Don'T know how you should handle that.

[Host 3]

Situation, but probably don't give him a.

[Host 2]

Computer that, that lies to him.

[Brandy Posey]

I think you got to sign him up for bowling league or something. I think.

[Host 3]

Get him bowling.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, let's get some more social.

[Host 3]

Take maybe, you know, fill out that.

[Brandy Posey]

Social schedule a little bit more.

[Host 3]

You know what, See if he wants.

[Host 2]

To play D and D. Maybe his imagination needs a little bit of a.

[Host 3]

Workout, you know, that might be great. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Now, if a lot of this sounds like the overarching conspiracy plot for the.

[Host 3]

First, like five seasons of the X Files, that's because this is almost certainly.

[Host 2]

The direct inspiration for a lot of the X Files.

[Host 3]

Right? Like this is in fact, because this.

[Host 2]

Is all happening in the 80s, not.

[Host 3]

Long before the X Files starts, right? Yeah. So Benowitz, as he's communicating with these.

[Host 2]

Aliens, he's gathering information on this secret underground base and this war he believes.

[Host 3]

Is going on underneath everyone's noses.

[Host 2]

He's sending back everything. He's getting to Special Agent Doty, his good friend. And Dodie dutifully forwards this up the.

[Host 3]

Chain and encourages Paul. Keep digging, you know, you're getting close.

[Host 2]

He's doing the Deep Throat thing, right?

[Host 3]

He's like, yeah, keep, keep digging.

[Host 2]

Agent Molder, you know?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're so close, you're gonna get there.

[Host 3]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

He's telling him that the aliens at Dulce base had been responsible for what he'd seen over Kirtland.

[Host 3]

And he does this because he's like, oh, yeah, man, you know what? I, I, I ran it up the.

[Host 2]

Flagpole and those, that underground base, that's why you were seeing those weird lights. Don't look near the Air Force base.

[Host 3]

Keep hanging out around Dulce. You know that's where the shit's going on, right?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Go.

[Host 3]

Rightly claims the ultimate intent of stringing.

[Host 2]

Benowitz along, according to researchers like Greg Bishop and Christian Lambright, was to shift Benowitz's attention away from Kirtland to a remote area like the Archuleta Mesa near Dulce, where Afosi could ramp up their disinformation operations and more easily stage UFO events. Speaking of staged, you know what's not staged is the reliability of our sponsors. That's completely legitimate.

[Host 3]

You know, don't even question it.

[Host 2]

Don't think about it. Hand over your credit card information, text it to me. I'll buy stuff for you.

[David Eagleman]

This is David Eagleman, host of the science podcast Intercos Cosmos. For Valentine's Day, we're diving into the question, what is love from the brain's point of view? What does love have to do with how you were raised? Or the symmetry of someone's face or the smell of their underarms? Why does the character of love change throughout our lives? Why is heartbreak like drug withdrawal? And what does any of this have to do with sweaty T shirts or wrong or monogamous animals and the future of love and AI? Join me for this week's Inner Cosmos. For a deep dive into the neurobiology of love, listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host 2]

And we're back.

[Host 3]

Okay, so near the end of 1981.

[Host 2]

Richard Doty convinces his superiors to let him take Paul on a special helicopter flight around the Archuleta Mesa since Paul is a pilot.

[Host 3]

And they see some stuff, you know, there's some. And apparently Doty claims that he and other agents put out props, right, to.

[Host 2]

Look like air vents for the secret underground base and other evidence, right?

[Brandy Posey]

This is so crazy. Now there's an art director involved.

[Host 3]

Yeah, yeah, there's an art director.

[Brandy Posey]

There's production product, there's production meetings about, like, what to do to this poor man.

[Host 3]

Like, yeah, they're having Pitches and stuff. They've got like pitch meetings on with this guy. There's a whole. There's a prop team now.

[Brandy Posey]

Yes. Oh, no.

[Host 3]

So because Paul's a pilot, after this.

[Host 2]

First trip, he follows this by doing his own recon flights over the area. And he gets very obsessed with this.

[Host 3]

And I have some questions. I. I don't know if I believe Dodie entirely that, like, he's being handed.

[Host 2]

All of the men and equipment necessary to carry out a staged operation on the scale he describes.

[Host 3]

But also it's possible and in fact.

[Host 2]

Maybe likely, Paul is sometimes seeing some real stuff. Like he reports seeing what he describes as a crashed Delta Wing aircraft.

[Host 3]

And in this area at this time, they're working on prototypes of the stealth bomber, which is a. Looks like that. And in fact, Greg Bishop's Project Beta, like that's his basic conclusion, is that, like, Paul might have seen some of.

[Host 2]

The testing stages of the prototype of the stealth bomber.

[Host 3]

Right. And maybe that was like part of.

[Host 2]

What Doty was doing was if we get this guy to talk about.

[Host 3]

If.

[Host 2]

We let this guy see a little bit of the real stealth bomber program.

[Host 3]

But convince him it's aliens, then anybody who's talking about like a Delta wing aircraft, right, will be like, oh, you're just talking about a ufo, not this.

[Host 2]

Actual thing that we're working on, right?

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, exactly. Let's get everybody off the scent once again.

[Host 2]

So maybe that's what's happening, or maybe.

[Host 3]

It was just an easy thing to.

[Host 2]

Make look like a plane from the air.

[Host 3]

Shit like this.

[Host 2]

They do this in World War II. A bunch we do it. And actually the Nazis do it too.

[Host 3]

Where you'll like make basically fake out.

[Host 2]

Of like wood and shit and spray.

[Host 3]

Paint tanks and stuff so people think.

[Host 2]

There'S an army where it isn't. Right.

[Host 3]

So it's not.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, where I'm from in Maryland, there's a, There's a fake cop car on, like, one of the highways is up just to slow you down.

[Host 3]

Yeah, love that shit.

[Host 2]

Now, there are other claims about what happened to Paul and his wife during this period that are more questionable. One write up I found by the.

[Host 3]

Cyberthetic Project claims that Paul and his.

[Host 2]

Wife developed red sores or perhaps some.

[Host 3]

Sort of rashes on their body.

[Host 2]

I've seen that a few times.

[Host 3]

Times. The Cyberthetic Project describes itself as a.

[Host 2]

Token project with a mission to unite holders so they can communicate in an open forum on the blockchain without fear of being judged or censored. So you'd be Right. About questioning it as a source.

[Host 3]

That said, this is all a lot of fun.

[Host 2]

So I'm going to quote from it.

[Host 3]

Anyway, just, you know, a lot of salt here.

[Host 2]

It has since been revealed that the NSA was in possession of sensitive documents concerning advanced technology such as active denial systems and active denial technology. These technologies were apparently being developed by Sandia Labs and, and Kirkland Air Force Base with the aim of producing a non lethal weapon that could be used against enemies. Were they using this technology on the Benowitz family? The answer to that is also unclear. What is clear is that Paul and his wife were being physically impacted by the re. His research into UFOs.

[Host 3]

And that's maybe not like, I don't.

[Host 2]

I think probably likelier than some sort.

[Host 3]

Of weird beam weapon is that Paul.

[Host 2]

Is losing his mind.

[Host 3]

And he and his wife are both.

[Host 2]

Very stressed out by this and convinced.

[Host 3]

That they're being targeted by aliens. And they have like shingles, a stress rash, stuff like all sorts of shit, you know.

[Brandy Posey]

Oh yeah, it feels like they probably would have like broken out in some sort of like. Yeah, stress rash of some kind. Like. Yes, that's fair. I have several friends from the California fires that had them a week ago.

[Host 3]

Right, right.

[Brandy Posey]

Imagine prolonged experience to potential alien for years. Yeah, you have rashes too, right?

[Host 3]

I, I don't think that that's.

[Host 2]

It's at all unlikely that something like.

[Host 3]

That is, is the case here. And yeah, so as he grew more.

[Host 2]

Obsessed with seeking out the truth, Paul's business declined. Which is another reason why maybe he's dealing with some stress related problems.

[Brandy Posey]

He's a poor office manager.

[Host 3]

He's just like oh my God.

[Brandy Posey]

I just need you to sign off on this, Paul.

[Host 3]

We just really need to make this censor man. Could we?

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 3]

You've got the whole team working on translation, translating alien speech. All right, well I'm gonna maybe print out some resumes. In 1978, Thunder Scientific had 30 employees. By 1981, that the number was down by almost half. There were he starts hiding like guns.

[Host 2]

And knives around his home as the 1980s wore on because he's just incredibly paranoid now. And he continues to attend UFO events throughout the mid to late 1980s. His yarn about Dulce Base, which was almost certainly invented or at least heavily egged on by Richard Doty, had been a magnificent success. In 1987, John Lear, a prominent ufologist.

[Host 3]

Stated that he had independently confirmed elements of Benowitz's story. Right. That there's this underground base at a.

[Host 2]

Dulce several books in the late 1980s published their own variants of the story, which helped to spark a paranoid belief in secret underground alien bases that is still a significant part of QANON today.

[Host 3]

Like a lot of QANON guys believe.

[Host 2]

That there's a base under the Getty in Los Angeles.

[Host 3]

Angeles.

[Brandy Posey]

That's why I didn't burn.

[Host 3]

That's why it didn't burn. They kept it safe. That's where they keep the kids.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, exactly. Center or villa?

[Host 3]

I think it's the center.

[Host 2]

Either way, do a pizza gate at both places.

[Host 3]

Sophie, you know what?

[Host 2]

No, that didn't end well for that guy.

[Host 3]

There's a lot that's sad about this.

[Host 2]

But one of the worst things is that Paul had almost certainly stumbled upon a very real and very important conspiracy. Kirtland. See, today, Kirtland Air Force Base is a major testing site for advanced drone technology, including weapons systems to defeat drone swarms and other experimental tech. We know that in 1980, a black mystery vehicle was spotted at the base. This is right around the same time Paul is making his initial reports. Sophie's gonna show you a picture of this mystery vehicle that is being tested.

[Host 3]

At Kirtland Air Force Base.

[Host 2]

When Paul is observing.

[Host 3]

Shit. Right. It looks kind of like an SR71, but it's like a drone version almost. This was apparently what's now we know this was called at the time td.

[Host 2]

A tdux TOW target. Write up in the War zone describes it as a high speed towed aerial target to support the testing of infrared and electronic countermeasures, or IRCM and ecm, respectively. Something like this would both look very.

[Host 3]

Weird in the sky and also also.

[Host 2]

Might put off some of the signals.

[Host 3]

That Paul was, you know, receiving right now. I don't know if this is what.

[Host 2]

He saw or was other stuff, because other shit is being tested at Kirtland, including precursors to our modern drone program.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Host 2]

Paul very likely came across evidence of the development of unmanned weapons systems that have gone on to kill huge numbers of people. No aliens need to be involved at all for this to both make sense and be a real conspiracy theory. It's also very likely Doody wasn't fully in the loop as to what was being developed there, because he wouldn't need to be. And in fact, the more he believed the he was pushing on Paul, the.

[Host 3]

Safer the real secrets were in 1988.

[Host 2]

Yep, yep.

[Host 3]

Cool stuff. The drone program. It always comes back to that.

[Brandy Posey]

Hooray. So exciting. But they make pretty firework alternatives. It's fine.

[Host 3]

Yeah, it's all good. Stuff.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, don't worry. They can form Steve Harvey in the sky.

[Host 3]

Yeah, they can make Steve. It's fine.

[Brandy Posey]

They should have done that. That. What if they. Aliens love Steve Harvey. Oh, my God.

[Host 3]

Paul Benowitz went to the Air Force. I keep seeing Steve Harvey's face in the night sky. I don't know what's going on. In 1988, Paul published plans for an.

[Host 2]

Assault on Dulce base, which he'd become convinced was the nexus of an alien plan to control the world. That same year, he became convinced that his wife was working with the aliens, or perhaps in control of. Of the entire alien conspiracy.

[Host 3]

Go rightly wife. Yeah, she's really putting. She's really going through it here. And in this passage from Go Rightly's book, which is based on interviews with.

[Host 2]

Bill Moore and Richard Doty, he describes a profoundly ill man. Both Bill Moore and Richard Doty, on separate occasions witnessed firsthand Benowitz's mounting paranoia, describing him as spun out and barricaded inside his home chain smoking cigarettes, waiting in fevered anticipation for the final ET showdown. In Project Beta, Greg Bishop recounted. Benowitz told Moore that after the aliens injected him, they would make him drive his car in. Into the desert in the middle of the night. But he couldn't remember what he did.

[Host 3]

After he got there.

[Host 2]

Around this time, Benowitz's family committed him to a mental health facility for nervous exhaustion.

[Brandy Posey]

Oh, man.

[Host 3]

And you will sometimes hear it errantly.

[Host 2]

Stated that he commits suicide as a result of this. He does not. This, thankfully, doesn't have as sad a story as it might.

[Host 3]

Paul gets out after about a month.

[Host 2]

And he seems to have pulled himself out of the UFO community.

[Host 3]

After this point, he and his wife stay together.

[Host 2]

They're married more than 50 years and he lives until 2003.

[Host 3]

So, you know, kind of a happy ending, but boy, it didn't. It. It almost wasn't.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, for real, man. Also shout out to the place he was committed. Apparently, apparently they did the job. Yeah, that's some serious deprogramming.

[Host 3]

Paul. Paul, man, you gotta stop. You gotta stop the computer the NSA gave you.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, computer bad man. Some poor doctor just cracked all of their knuckles and said, all right, let's, let's get into it.

[Host 2]

Paul, we need to have a long.

[Host 3]

Conversation about things that are real and things that aren't.

[Host 2]

So Richard Doty would eventually retire from the Air Force and spend much of his retirement and golden years doing the UFO convention circuit. He came, he. He will say that he was hired to consult on two seasons of the X Files Files and that he wrote the screenplay for an episode. He's not credited as the writer for.

[Host 3]

That episode, but, you know, his stuff.

[Host 2]

Definitely helps inspire the X Files. Right. Like, he is, he is for sure.

[Host 3]

Involved in what becomes the X Files purely because of, like, his role in UFO culture.

[Brandy Posey]

I'm sure he wrote a script, but.

[Host 3]

Yeah, I'm sure he wrote a script.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, A lot of people, people have written scripts and he is, he's a.

[Host 2]

Member of a couple of different organizations.

[Host 3]

Now.

[Host 2]

He's a very controversial figure within the.

[Host 3]

UFO community because he both definitely worked for Air Force Intelligence and tells a.

[Host 2]

Lot of stories about seeing aliens. He claims to have literally seen them.

[Host 3]

And also admits that he lied about.

[Host 2]

Aliens for years to a guy who.

[Host 3]

Nearly lost his mind forever.

[Host 2]

I wouldn't trust him.

[Host 3]

But for an idea of how, of.

[Host 2]

How Richard Doty presents himself now, here's a clip from him on the New Realities used YouTube channel, being interviewed by.

[Host 3]

A UFO ology author named Alan Steinfeld. Steinfeld.

[G]

I mean, you're no longer working for the Air Force Intelligence, right, But. That's right, I don't work for Air Force Intelligence.

[Host 3]

Well, don't be offended by this question.

[G]

But how do we know you're still not working for them and you're just saying you're not working for them? Well, there's a lot of, of controversy over that. But number one, I wouldn't have any reason to. I'm. I left the agency, left the intelligence agency back in 1988. Although I. People bring up the fact that I was brought back to active service in 91 and 93, but that had nothing to do with UFOs or disinformation. It had to do with what I did in Europe when, after the wall fell. So I work as a private investigator. I have no connections, official connections with the United States government or intelligence community. I do have a lot of friends that still work within the intelligence community and they feed me a lot of information that I share with you. I mean, I shared it with you at the, the UFO mega can.

[Host 3]

Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, I think he's still. And they. I even found an interview where he's like, talked about, like, he's asked about, like, because Tom DeLong of Blink 182 is a big guy and is involved with Doty in one of the organizations he's in. And one of the interviews is like.

[Host 2]

Are you doing a Paul Benowitz to Tom DeLong?

[Host 3]

He's like, of course not. I would never I absolutely would never do that. I think he might be doing a Paul Benoit wits on a couple of guys. Maybe that's just fun for him.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, it reminds me of what's the. In the. Tanya Harding in the Assault of Nancy Kerrigan. Tanya Harding.

[Host 3]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brandy Posey]

The Guli and his idiot friend. The amount of that they just believe about themselves and talk about like. Yeah, like the, the other guy ert, he like talked about how he like was a special forces guy and had all this made up. You're like, dam you believe this though?

[Host 3]

I've heard so many fun lies about being special forces from dudes like, especially out in like the mountains.

[Host 2]

Like every old man you meet who.

[Host 3]

Like will tell you about all of.

[Host 2]

The crazy shit he did in Vietnam.

[Host 3]

And it's, it's just always, it's always nonsense. Like, yeah, I know a guy who's.

[Host 2]

Out where in the little mountain town where I used to live, who was a SEAL team member during Vietnam. And his reaction is very different, which was like he handed me a book that was written about out like him and his colleagues.

[Host 3]

It was like, you want to know anything? Just read that. I don't like talking about it.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah. If you've actually done any of this stuff, you're like, it's not, it's not what it. It's not the movies, buddy.

[Host 3]

It's kind of a bad time.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, Yeah. I. I have a lot to answer for and process.

[Host 3]

Didn't like it. Not. Not happy with how that all went.

[Brandy Posey]

No, no. Not worth the free beer to talk about it jovially. No.

[Host 3]

Yeah. Anyway, well, that's the aliens. Or not, but maybe there's aliens.

[Host 2]

I don't know.

[Host 3]

This is not conclusive on that matter one way or the other, but there's definitely a bunch of spy agencies who.

[Host 2]

Will lie to you and destroy your.

[Host 3]

Brain if they think it will help them hide a fact that they're making.

[Host 2]

Some fucked up shit to kill people in other countries.

[Brandy Posey]

Of course, maybe the alien was inside of View Listener the entire, entire time.

[Host 2]

The real alien was always the military industrial complex.

[Brandy Posey]

Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, define what an alien is. It's something that works against like the good of humanity. Then in that case, the government is run by aliens. Yeah, I don't know. Who knows? Who knows what's out there or in here apparently. But.

[Host 1]

But what is out there and what is in here are your pluggables. Brandy.

[Brandy Posey]

Bam. What? Shabam Transition.

[Host 3]

Nice work.

[Brandy Posey]

Thanks, Sophie. Yeah, you can, you can find me online at Brandazzle. On all of the platforms, including the new ones and the old ones. My podcast is called lady to Lady. Comes out every Wednesday and has been around for 13 years. Burn this Records is my comedy label that I run where I put out amazing comedy albums of people all over the country that are very funny and also good people. And then I have my own album coming out on that label table at the in the middle of March, and I would love for you to buy it. That'd be amazing. So, yeah, brandyposie.com has all the information for all of the things. But yeah, come say hi. I. If you're a fan of the show, you'll like me, I promise. So come on over.

[Host 3]

All right, everybody.

[Host 2]

Well, that's the episode. Until next time. Again, folks.

[Host 3]

I. I see this every time.

[Host 2]

Head to Kirtland Air Force Base, get a camera out and just start filming and go slowly insane.

[Host 3]

Get a pilot's license, fly over some random mesa. You know, just.

[Host 2]

Just do some shit.

[Host 3]

You know, why not?

[Brandy Posey]

Nothing bad can happen.

[Host 3]

The world's going to hell in a handbasket.

[Host 2]

You might as well lose your mind about some alien shit.

[Brandy Posey]

If you want to test your relationship. Go down an alien hole.

[Host 2]

See if your wife really loves you.

[Host 3]

You know, this is the only way to know. It's the only way to know.

[Host 1]

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, YouTube. Com at behindthebastards.