Part Two: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles

Summary

Behind the Bastards: Part Two – In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles

Release Date: March 6, 2025
Hosts: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
Episode Title: "In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles"

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1. Introduction to Versailles and the Sun King's Court

In this episode of Behind the Bastards, the hosts delve deep into the opulent yet oppressive world of Versailles under the reign of Louis XIV, the Sun King, and his successor, Louis XV. They explore how Versailles became the epicenter of absolute monarchy in France, shaping not only the lives of the nobility but also sowing the seeds of revolutionary sentiment among the common people.

2. Rigorous Etiquette and Its Impact on the Nobility

The episode opens with a discussion on the stringent etiquette that governed daily life at Versailles. The hosts highlight how Louis XIV meticulously crafted a court culture where every action was governed by an intricate web of rituals and rules. This rigid system ensured that courtiers remained in constant fear of offending the king, leading to a society rife with paranoia and psychological strain.

Ed Zitron [05:07]: "The normalization of this behavior among the ruling class contributed to a growing break with the bourgeoisie and the working class of France."

This omnipresent fear fostered an environment where relationships were transactional, and personal connections were overshadowed by the imperative to please the monarch. The hosts emphasize that maintaining favor with the king was paramount, often at the cost of personal integrity and mental well-being.

3. The Widespread Use of Poison in Court Intrigue

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the dark underbelly of Versailles: the prevalent use of poison as a tool for political maneuvering. The hosts explain that arsenic and antimony were the poisons of choice, ingeniously administered through methods such as enemas and tainted clothing.

Host 2 [16:24]: "Inheritance powders, which is literally poison, to kill a guy so you will inherit."

They recount notable cases, including the infamous trial of the Marquis de Brinvilliers in 1676, who was executed for poisoning her father and two brothers. These stories illustrate the lethal lengths to which nobles would go to eliminate rivals and secure their positions within the court.

4. Emerging Media Ecosystem in Paris

Transitioning from the secluded world of Versailles, the hosts explore how an independent media ecosystem began to flourish in Paris. Despite strict censorship, information about the court's excesses and scandals filtered into the city through smuggled newspapers and pamphlets printed abroad.

Ed Zitron [03:35]: "The emergence of a media ecosystem in Paris sprouts because now all of power is centralized at Versailles."

They draw parallels between the oral newsmongers gathered at the Tree of Krakow and today's social media platforms, portraying them as early forms of mass communication that disseminated gossip and news swiftly among the populace.

5. Public Perception and Growing Unrest

As the media ecosystem matured, it played a pivotal role in shaping public perception. Chronicling the extravagances and moral failings of the monarchy, the media fueled resentment among the common people. The hosts cite how daily news about the nobility's gambling losses, extravagant spending, and adulterous affairs contributed to a widespread disillusionment with the ruling class.

Host 2 [02:20]: "The Duke d'Orleans gambled away 700,000 livres. Just burnt it for nothing. Kind of pissed about that."

This continuous stream of negative information eroded the legitimacy of the monarchy, setting the stage for revolutionary fervor.

6. Reign of Louis XV: Continuation of Decline

The episode proceeds to Louis XV's reign, contrasting his tenure with that of his predecessor. While Louis XV was less promiscuous, his reign was marked by significant financial mismanagement and costly wars. The hosts discuss John Law's Mississippi Company, a financial scheme that initially appeared innovative but ultimately collapsed, leading to economic disaster for France.

Ed Zitron [58:16]: "This is like a Ponzi scheme of its day because it collapses, which kills the national bank and bankrupts a huge chunk of the nobility who had invested into it."

The resulting debt forced the crown to impose heavier taxes on the already struggling populace, exacerbating public dissatisfaction and economic hardship.

7. Media as a Check on Louis XV's Power

Influential songs and writings became potent tools for the bourgeoisie and commoners to critique and undermine the monarchy. The hosts highlight how these cultural products acted as a form of resistance, spreading anti-royal sentiment and mobilizing public opinion against perceived injustices.

Ed Zitron [78:23]: "France is an absolute monarchy tempered by songs."

These creative outlets allowed the public to express dissent and rally against the king's policies, further weakening the crown's authority.

8. The Deterioration of Monarchical Control

As the media's influence grew, the monarchy struggled to control the narrative. Scandals involving the king's mistresses and the extravagant lifestyle of the court were no longer confined within Versailles but were broadcasted to the masses. The hosts illustrate how these revelations damaged the monarchy's reputation, making it increasingly untenable.

Ed Zitron [86:17]: "Every bad thing that happened adds to the crush of hostile papers, books, and songs attacking the regime."

The isolation of the monarch from the general populace, combined with the relentless critique from the media, led to a complete breakdown in the relationship between the rulers and the ruled.

9. Consequences and Prelude to Revolution

By the mid-18th century, the cumulative effects of financial ruin, public unrest, and media-fueled resentment made the French Revolution almost inevitable. The hosts discuss how the entrenched systems of control and manipulation at Versailles had irreparably damaged the monarchy's standing, leading to widespread support for revolutionary change.

Host 2 [88:01]: "There's almost certainly no way just functionally because Versailles can't peel any of that back."

The episode underscores that the oppressive culture of Versailles, combined with an empowered and critical media, set the stage for the monumental societal upheaval that would follow.

10. Conclusion: Legacy of Versailles' Culture

In wrapping up, the hosts reflect on the enduring legacy of Versailles' court culture. They caution against attempts to recreate such isolated and manipulative power structures in modern times, drawing parallels to contemporary figures who seek to establish their own "content houses" and control over media narratives.

Ed Zitron [94:16]: "If you have an absolute monarchy, you are going to engender a cult at the top."

The episode serves as a historical lesson on the dangers of absolute power, unchecked aristocratic indulgence, and the vital role of independent media in holding the powerful accountable. It highlights how the excesses and manipulations of the Versailles court not only led to personal madness and societal decay but also to one of history's most significant revolutions.

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Notable Quotes:

• Host 2 [05:07]: "The normalization of this behavior among the ruling class contributed to a growing break with the bourgeoisie and the working class of France."
• Host 2 [16:24]: "Inheritance powders, which is literally poison, to kill a guy so you will inherit."
• Ed Zitron [03:35]: "The emergence of a media ecosystem in Paris sprouts because now all of power is centralized at Versailles."
• Host 2 [02:20]: "The Duke d'Orleans gambled away 700,000 livres. Just burnt it for nothing. Kind of pissed about that."
• Ed Zitron [58:16]: "This is like a Ponzi scheme of its day because it collapses, which kills the national bank and bankrupts a huge chunk of the nobility who had invested into it."
• Ed Zitron [78:23]: "France is an absolute monarchy tempered by songs."
• Ed Zitron [86:17]: "Every bad thing that happened adds to the crush of hostile papers, books, and songs attacking the regime."
• Host 2 [88:01]: "There's almost certainly no way just functionally because Versailles can't peel any of that back."
• Ed Zitron [94:16]: "If you have an absolute monarchy, you are going to engender a cult at the top."

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of Part Two: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles by unpacking the complex interplay between absolute monarchy, courtly excess, poison intrigue, and the birth of a critical media ecosystem in pre-revolutionary France. It underscores how the cultural and political dynamics of Versailles not only alienated the common people but also laid the groundwork for transformative societal change.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Call Zone Media.

[Host 2]

Ah, we're back. And, you know, we're talking about Versailles, me and my friend Ed.

[Ed Zitron]

Edward Zitron.

[Host 2]

I've never called you Edward.

[Ed Zitron]

It feels wrong.

[Guest 1]

It's mostly what my mother calls me when I've done something.

[Host 2]

Edward.

[Guest 1]

Like, Edward. Just Edward Benjamin Zitron. That's when I know I'm in real trouble.

[Ed Zitron]

Edward Benjamin Zittron.

[Guest 2]

Wow.

[Guest 1]

Yeah, that's when the.

[Host 2]

That's. That's.

[Guest 1]

Yeah, that's. That's when I'm about.

[Host 2]

That does yell that. Yeah, I feel like I need to.

[Ed Zitron]

Punish you for something just hearing that.

[Guest 1]

Yeah, that's exactly it. It's the punishment phrase.

[Host 2]

So, Ed, of better offline, we're talking about Versailles and the weird culture of oligarchy. Well, it wasn't. I mean, it's an aristocracy, but whatever. Like, we're talking about this weird subculture that Louis XIV created to govern society. During that.

[Host 1]

During that break between recording episodes, neither of you peed, right? Because I'm not okay with that.

[Guest 1]

I wouldn't.

[Host 2]

I pissed off. I wouldn't plant.

[Guest 1]

What the French gonna do to me.

[Host 1]

Behead you.

[Ed Zitron]

Behead you.

[Host 1]

It's done.

[Host 2]

No fortress. Honestly, though, it'd be pretty cool if I just got to live in a fortress forever.

[Ed Zitron]

I would not mind a nice fortress day.

[Host 1]

But don't pee.

[Host 2]

As long as it's like a nice all the time.

[Guest 1]

I drink so many Diet Cokes, I would be beheaded.

[Host 2]

Yeah, you would not have lasted a minute in Versailles. Me, I'm great at holding my pee. I'd have been the fucking king's best friend. We'd have gotten wasted together.

[Guest 1]

Blocks of piss.

[Ed Zitron]

We'd have been gambling.

[Host 2]

It is funny to me that all of these royals gambling as well, every night, gambling, constantly losing and making fortunes while the country. A big part of why people get.

[Ed Zitron]

Increasingly angry in the period from here up to 1789, when the Revolution happens.

[Host 2]

Is every day in these newspapers that are getting smuggled into France and, you know, these other different, like, kind of news delivering methods.

[Ed Zitron]

We'll talk about that whole news ecosystem in Paris in a little bit. But every day people are reading stories about, like, who lost how much money in Versailles.

[Host 2]

So they're like, oh, the price of bread just tripled. My family's going to starve and die. And the Duke D'Orleans gambled away 700,000 livres. Like, just burnt it for nothing. Kind of pissed about that. Yeah.

[Guest 1]

Or not, as the case may be.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Right. I would dare not be pissed about it in front of the King. Find your amex card and earn rewards on everyday purchases like points on groceries. See if you pre qualify with no impact on your credit score. Learn more about our [e-mail] check 4 offers. Your credit score may be impacted if you submit an application. Terms apply.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Reporter]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Host 2]

You know, the fact that gambling is.

[Ed Zitron]

Absolutely central to the culture of this, this leadership cast who all live at.

[Host 2]

Virt Versailles with the King. I can't not think about crypto and.

[Ed Zitron]

How central that is to the people who are trying to make themselves the new the American nobility.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Who want to be our hereditary aristocracy that rules things and how they spend.

[Ed Zitron]

Most of their time and money gambling on crypto.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Anyway, I don't know. Interesting, interesting.

[Guest 1]

And they have their own weird culture.

[Host 2]

Yes, yes. And they even have their own, you know, they've got Mar A Lago, which Trump clearly wants to be a sort of Versailles.

[Guest 1]

Yeah, he lacks the atrocity gene. Like, I'm sure he would love to do one, but like, he lacks the killer instinct of these perverts.

[Ed Zitron]

Well, yeah, he did not have to literally fight a series of wars in order to get where he is. Which again, that's consistently the best thing we have going for us.

[Host 2]

You know, it's the same as like.

[Ed Zitron]

Well, at least this generation of fascists didn't all spend four years fighting in.

[Host 2]

Close quarters in trenches, you know.

[Ed Zitron]

That said, neither did we. So the social constitution of Versailles took a lot from its founder, which meant that the whole place was a huge.

[Host 2]

Adultery club all the time.

[Ed Zitron]

There's a great story in Nancy Mitford's book that might be apocryphal, but it tells of a high ranking noble returning home early from a trip abroad to find his wife in bed with her lover.

[Host 2]

And he apologized to both of them. He was like, oh my God, I didn't warn you I'd come home early.

[Ed Zitron]

Of course. You're fucking some dude. Oh my God, I am so embarrassed.

[Host 2]

This is on me, you know, Slot Portland. Yeah, it's like Portland completely. My bad.

[Guest 1]

You should be. You should apologize.

[Ed Zitron]

The normalization of this behavior among the ruling class contributed to a growing break with the bourgeoisie and the working class of France. Because while these nobles were all living.

[Host 2]

Together, they don't really, most of them.

[Ed Zitron]

There are conflicts that emerge, but most of them aren't super judgmental about adultery. Right.

[Host 2]

It is just kind of considered something you do.

[Ed Zitron]

The working class and most of the bourgeoisie are extremely Catholic and they are not okay with this. And again, as more of this stuff leaks and gets leaked out, right.

[Host 2]

If you want to, if you are.

[Ed Zitron]

Politically opposed to Madame de Montespan, right. Or whichever of the King's lovers, you leak out stories of her doing fucked up shit, you know, gambling irresponsibly, being drunk, sleeping around on the King, Right.

[Host 2]

Or whatever. And that both makes the King look bad and it makes the King more.

[Ed Zitron]

Likely to send her away.

[Guest 2]

Right, right.

[Guest 1]

And because the, the peasantry would get morally offended.

[Host 2]

Well, I mean, that's kind of a byproduct, right.

[Ed Zitron]

The reason why you, as a noble at Versailles are leaking out stories about her is you want to hurt her position.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And the stories will get out into the press and then the police will find out that peasants are talking about.

[Host 2]

This and bourgeoisie are talking about this.

[Ed Zitron]

They'll bring that story back to the King and then he'll know that he's been embarrassed.

[Host 2]

And so your goal as a noble.

[Ed Zitron]

Leaking, that is to influence that situation.

[Host 2]

But the byproduct of, of this is that the, the peasantry and the, the.

[Ed Zitron]

Bourgeois, like the regular people of France, are constantly hearing about how the King.

[Host 2]

Is sleeping around and not being a good Catholic. And that makes them increasingly angry and.

[Ed Zitron]

Disaffected from the monarchy. This is a process that occurs over like a century. But this, the sheer weight of all these stories changes completely how regular people think about their rulers in a way that is very negative and that contributes to the growth of revolutionary sentiment, right?

[Host 2]

It's a part of it, you know.

[Ed Zitron]

So this whole process gets really escalated when Madame de Montespan succeeds in using magic to win the King over as her lover. Now, Madame de Montespan had a husband, and in most cases, when the King.

[Host 2]

Fucks your wife, you're cool with it.

[Ed Zitron]

For one thing, as a noble, you are rarely married for love, right?

[Host 2]

You got married with this lady because.

[Ed Zitron]

Of a money thing, because of a political alliance.

[Host 2]

So, like, you don't really care who.

[Ed Zitron]

She fucks as long as you're able to fuck who you like. Right? Right.

[Host 2]

This is not the case with Madame de Montespan's wife.

[Ed Zitron]

And the king, normally, his thing is.

[Host 2]

Like to the husband, hey, here, have.

[Ed Zitron]

A couple of privileges. You, you get all the tax money from this specific industry.

[Guest 1]

The king, sht up.

[Host 2]

And your wife, yes, oh, yes, you.

[Ed Zitron]

Get very well rewarded, right?

[Host 2]

And it's also, there's no shame in.

[Ed Zitron]

Being cucked by the king, right?

[Host 2]

He's the king. You know, like, it's kind of a.

[Ed Zitron]

Bragging point if like, yeah, my wife is stuppen the king now, all of.

[Host 2]

The taxes paid on, you know, fine leather work in Normandy or whatever, you know. But this guy felt differently.

[Ed Zitron]

And his uncle was the Archbishop of Sens, right? So his uncle is a high ranking member of the Catholic clergy.

[Host 2]

This guy's pissed that the king is fucking his wife. And so the archbishop, his uncle, in.

[Ed Zitron]

Order to punish the king, finds a different married woman in his bishopric who's cheating on her husband and he makes her do public penance, right? He like, puts her in public and punishes her and he posts public warnings about the sin of adultery. Now, again, there's no free press in France, but numerous French papers and pamphlets are printed in Amsterdam or the Hague and sent across. And the population is generally aware of what's going on.

[Host 2]

As a result, the scandal peters out.

[Ed Zitron]

Eventually, largely because the Sun King refuses to give a shit about it or stop traveling around with his wife, his pregnant former mistress, and his new mistress.

[Host 2]

All in this shit same carriage.

[Ed Zitron]

There's a very funny moment where they're all like traveling to the front together.

[Host 2]

One day after they work out their.

[Ed Zitron]

Differences and get along.

[Host 2]

And some of like, the soldiers they pass are like, I just saw the King and the three queens of France.

[Guest 1]

Damn. Jesus Christ.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

The fact they're alive, well, we're allowed to live. Yeah, I don't know. The rest of their 31 year old life.

[Host 2]

Yeah, right. Well into their 20s now.

[Ed Zitron]

Speaking of which, travel in the King's carriage was one of the great honors the Versailles set competed over whenever he went on a trip. If he picked you to travel with him, that's a big deal, right?

[Host 2]

You've like won a major win, but it's also miserable.

[Ed Zitron]

As Mitford writes, these journeys, except for the prestige they gave, were a real torment to his companions. In the coldest weather, all the windows had to be kept open as he could not bear stuffiness. The ladies were expected to be merry, eat a great deal. He hated people to refuse food and.

[Host 2]

To have no physical need that would.

[Ed Zitron]

Force them to leave the coach.

[Host 1]

And they all have UTIs.

[Guest 1]

They're eating a Tunnel. They can't ship.

[Host 2]

No, they can't do anything. They're just freezing.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Guest 1]

If by any cold and you need to poo.

[Ed Zitron]

If by any chance they were taken ill, fainted or felt sick, they could expect no sympathy.

[Host 2]

On the contrary, disfavor set in. He's such a freak.

[Ed Zitron]

Louis XIV had no sympathy for his pregnant mistresses either. He's going to get you pregnant and he's going to take care of his bastard kids. He pays for them.

[Host 2]

He pays for them.

[Ed Zitron]

Well, they live very well.

[Host 2]

And he's like, treats the kids reasonably nice.

[Ed Zitron]

He hates pregnancy. So his mistresses, when he gets them.

[Host 2]

Pregnant, are ordered to hide their condition from him. And it's understood. If you get pregnant, you need to not tell me, you need to do.

[Ed Zitron]

Everything you can to hide it.

[Host 2]

And you need to have the kid.

[Ed Zitron]

Quietly and then smuggle it out of the palace into the hands of some.

[Host 2]

Common maid or a poor noble or someone who. I will pay.

[Ed Zitron]

Pay them to raise this kid.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Guest 1]

So does this guy like every nine months or so just find out he has a new child?

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, okay.

[Host 2]

Kind of like Elon Musk, basically Louis XIV's life. Yeah. Oh, got another kid.

[Ed Zitron]

That's crazy.

[Host 2]

Got another kid.

[Guest 1]

Pay some money.

[Host 2]

Pay some random lady to take care of it.

[Guest 1]

I want to hear about it though.

[Host 2]

Yeah, there's just one weird story. There's this lady who he, like, pays her to take care of one of his bastards because he hates her and he wants her away from Versailles and then the kid dies immediately and she's so sad about it that he starts to like her and he's like, oh, you know what? Then she got sad when my kid died. Now I think she's cool. He's a weird man.

[Guest 1]

Yeah. He's nothing like Elon Musk then.

[Host 2]

Nothing like Elon Musk. Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

In general, one thing you are struck by reading about Versailles under the Sun.

[Host 2]

King is that everyone lives in constant.

[Ed Zitron]

Terror of pissing this one dude off.

[Host 2]

One of his courtiers who never quite.

[Ed Zitron]

Made it to the inner circle later said, falseness, servility, admiring glances combined with a dependent and cringing attitude. Above all, an appearance of being nothing without him were the only means of pleasing him.

[Host 2]

Cool dude to hang out with.

[Guest 1]

Hey, come join me at my economy ruining house. It will be miserable.

[Host 2]

It's built on bones and costs half of France to run.

[Guest 1]

Isn't there a Twilight Zone episode about this with like a child that everyone needs to.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, kind of.

[Guest 1]

This sounds horrifying. This sounds great. For him, yeah.

[Host 2]

It's finds out he has a kid every so often. Yeah. Now, how many children did he have? Oh, I don't know that we have a full idea, but a bunch of.

[Ed Zitron]

Bastards and some legit kids. Nice.

[Guest 1]

Okay.

[Ed Zitron]

Now, a displeased king could be a terrifying thing. A representative story came when a group of the king's friends got lost hunting one day. They stumbled upon a cabin 20 miles or so from Versailles, and the old man who lived there took them in and fed them.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

During a conversation while they're having dinner that night, they found out that he had been a frondeur, that is a member of the rebellion in Louis XIV childhood.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

That we started the episode talking about.

[Ed Zitron]

So the king's friends returned to Versailles and they're like, hey, man, you'll never believe this.

[Host 2]

You know, we met this old dude.

[Ed Zitron]

He was part of the rebellion years ago. He just lives right next to Versailles.

[Host 2]

Very nice guy, you know, and they thought the king would find it amusing. The king was livid, and he had the man tracked down and executed immediately. So real, not a forgiving fellow. For another example of, like, how mercurial this guy could be, one of his.

[Ed Zitron]

Closest friends and confidants was a guy named Lasun. And Lazun got the idea in his mind one day that he wanted to marry the king's cousin.

[Host 2]

Now, at the same time as he's being like, hey, man, you should let me do this, he starts making jokes.

[Ed Zitron]

Which annoy the king.

[Host 2]

And the king gets increasingly pissed off.

[Ed Zitron]

Over the course of the night at.

[Host 2]

Like, the fact that this guy is.

[Ed Zitron]

Joking around and talking about marrying his.

[Host 2]

Cousin, that the king has his very.

[Ed Zitron]

Good friend arrested and locked away in.

[Host 2]

A fortress for 10 years.

[Guest 1]

So the guy. Well, the guy's the guy. The guy. Okay, cool. Why does anyone joke with Louis?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

Is there a reward for being funny?

[Host 2]

I suppose, yes.

[Ed Zitron]

Because a big part of why he likes the mistresses he likes is they can make him laugh. If you can make him laugh, you can get close to him and you.

[Host 2]

Can get a lot of benefits from that. But obviously, comedy is a very. A two edged sword.

[Guest 1]

You know, Comedy is both legal and illegal. Yes.

[Host 2]

Yeah. It really depends on how the Sun.

[Ed Zitron]

King feels in any given moment.

[Host 2]

So very dangerous place to make jokes.

[Guest 1]

This is truly insane.

[Host 2]

It's a great culture, but it's like there's a completely.

[Guest 1]

There's a set of laws, social and financial, and you could just die because you were slightly rude.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, yes. In a way that you would never have been able to guess, like, and.

[Guest 1]

You'Ll never find out because you're dead.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're dead.

[Ed Zitron]

Or. And usually just locked away.

[Host 2]

But if you're noble, usually you just get locked away, right? So by the 1670s, the late 1670s.

[Ed Zitron]

Louis has created a captive society of increasingly deranged, terrified, out of touch nobles whose entire life revolves around trying to.

[Host 2]

Get him to like them.

[Ed Zitron]

The stakes are life and death. A bad joke can get you locked in a fortress.

[Host 2]

And so again, people increasingly turn to black magic. And one of the things that's happening, as I said, a lot of this is nonsense. Like these black masses and stuff, I don't think are doing anything real, but.

[Ed Zitron]

There is a lot of real stuff being sold by these witches, right? Witchcraft has always been heavily tied to early medicine and particularly the use of botanical drugs.

[Host 2]

This often meant a border fascience, right? Like if you got pregnant and didn't.

[Ed Zitron]

Want to be, if it was bad.

[Host 2]

For you to be pregnant, especially all of the fucking that goes on in, you know, between these nobles.

[Ed Zitron]

It's not always a good idea to.

[Host 2]

Get pregnant with the person you're fucking.

[Ed Zitron]

You can get an abortion from these, from these witches, right?

[Guest 1]

From the witch.

[Ed Zitron]

But they also offer, they offer what are called inheritance powders, which is literally poison. To kill a guy, you will inherit.

[Host 2]

His, like the money of. Right, like your husband.

[Ed Zitron]

And over the middle of the Sun King's reign, it becomes very common to poison rivals for his affections. In other words, you are trying to kill people if they are closer to the king and you want to be.

[Host 2]

Close to the king.

[Ed Zitron]

The most popular poisons are arsenic and antimony. In Versailles, these were often snuck. How would you guess, what would you guess is the most common way to.

[Host 2]

Poison people to death in Versailles?

[Guest 1]

Well, poison them to death. I thought we'd talk about transporting.

[Host 1]

I'm gonna guess. No, no, no. I'm gonna guess that it is like they sneak it into the food.

[Host 2]

Okay, you're gonna guess food and you.

[Ed Zitron]

Get a guess for the most common way to poison someone at Versailles.

[Guest 1]

Something to do with clothing, some sort of, like some sort of accessory perhaps that can have a poison on it.

[Ed Zitron]

That is actually one of them.

[Host 2]

But that's not the most common method, so I'm give you a partial.

[Ed Zitron]

Sophie, you're wrong.

[Host 2]

The most common way to poison people at Versailles is to put poison in their enemas. So. What a horrible. Wow. Wow. What a horrible way to go.

[Guest 1]

What a pain in the ass social.

[Ed Zitron]

Life at the palace. There's huge feasts all the time. Right.

[Host 2]

Like, you're constantly having these big feasts.

[Ed Zitron]

And the king is obsessed. He hates it when people don't eat.

[Host 2]

If he is offering you food, you have to eat.

[Host 1]

You have to eat a lot, but don't shit in his presence.

[Host 2]

Here's the thing.

[Guest 1]

Number one, unless you use the shitting, the anima thing.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

Then that's fine.

[Ed Zitron]

Vin is now.

[Host 2]

Didn't want to get fat.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, there's a degree of stigma around.

[Host 2]

That, especially for, like, women at the court. And more to the point. Well, yeah, body.

[Host 1]

Body shaving has been around forever.

[Guest 1]

Do better, Sun King.

[Ed Zitron]

The kind of food.

[Host 2]

The kind of foods people are eating.

[Ed Zitron]

These very rich foods.

[Host 2]

A lot of cheese. People don't poop very well after eating feasts. Sure, sure. Enemas.

[Ed Zitron]

Everyone is taking enemas regularly because it's the only way to relieve yourself after the king forces you to eat 6,000.

[Host 2]

Calories of fine cheese and meat.

[Guest 1]

What year was this as well?

[Ed Zitron]

This is like the 1670s, 1680s.

[Guest 1]

So how many people died from these fucking things? Like, there must have been a lot.

[Host 2]

Of infections, and we'll never know because.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, number one, arsenic looks like a couple of other things.

[Host 2]

And somebody has a feast and then has a heart attack or gets.

[Ed Zitron]

People get sick and die for all sorts of reasons. And we're bad at diagnosing.

[Host 2]

Right, Right. We do know there's. There. There are a number of proven poisonings, but we don't know how many of.

[Ed Zitron]

The deaths at Versailles is also. It's very easy to get sick there because you live in a big house.

[Host 2]

With 3,000 people, like pissing and pooping.

[Guest 1]

Disease in weird places.

[Host 2]

That's probably.

[Ed Zitron]

That's not much of the problem.

[Host 2]

It's more just that, you know, flu.

[Ed Zitron]

Season comes around and everyone is in the same big room together.

[Host 2]

Right. You know, it's just easy to get sick again.

[Host 1]

The thought that you had in part one, the smell of this place.

[Host 2]

The smell of this place.

[Guest 1]

You know, it smell crazy in there.

[Host 2]

Because people are also. Yeah, I mean, they're.

[Ed Zitron]

They're using.

[Host 2]

They're doing their enemas in their private.

[Ed Zitron]

Apartments in the chamber pots.

[Host 2]

But enemas are a daily thing for.

[Ed Zitron]

A number of people.

[Host 2]

And, yeah, that's an easy way to.

[Ed Zitron]

Kill them, is you just put arsenic.

[Host 2]

In their enema, they'll shoot their ass and get sick.

[Ed Zitron]

Right.

[Host 2]

Now, Ed, you got this, right?

[Ed Zitron]

A very common method of poisoning. You would also impregnate someone's clothes with arsenic.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Host 2]

So you would put it on, like.

[Ed Zitron]

The arms of their clothing or whatever.

[Host 2]

And that wouldn't do anything unless they.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, touch their mouth or their eyes. But people do that all the time, Right.

[Host 2]

So the idea is that you put.

[Ed Zitron]

It in the garment, they'll get it on their hands, eventually they'll touch themselves.

[Host 2]

Somewhere that the poison can get in.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And the symptoms of arsenic are being. Are kind of similar to syphilis.

[Host 2]

So it has this benefit of if they don't know they've been poisoned, everyone.

[Ed Zitron]

Thinks they've caught syphilis. And there's a huge social stigma to getting syphilis. So again, if you're trying to damage a rival, you don't necessarily have to kill them.

[Host 2]

If you can make people think they.

[Ed Zitron]

Have syphilis, you can do some damage to their reputation.

[Host 2]

They won't be able to fuck people anymore, you know? Yeah, it's an issue now.

[Ed Zitron]

Doctors had developed methods for testing poison by this point, and they are awful. The main one was if you think someone was poisoned, right. If some guy gets sick suddenly and.

[Host 2]

He'S like, I think I was poisoned.

[Ed Zitron]

You feed whatever liquid or powder they think that they were poisoned with to a dog.

[Host 2]

And if the dog survives, it's not poison. If the dog dies, it's poison.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Pretty brutal, but, like, it makes sense now.

[Ed Zitron]

Because the stakes were high and royalty is at risk, doctors are constantly pushed to innovate and create antidotes. And they don't really know what they're doing.

[Host 2]

Very rarely do these work. And in order to try and figure out if they do work, there's enough of.

[Ed Zitron]

Science is becoming a thing in this period, right. We're not quite at the Enlightenment, but.

[Host 2]

People are starting to do science. And one of the ways in which.

[Ed Zitron]

They try to scientifically create antidotes is.

[Host 2]

When a doctor thinks he's figured out an antidote to a poison, they'll find a death row prisoner who volunteers and they'll poison them and then give them the antidote. And if they survive, their sentence is commuted. They get off a death row. Right.

[Guest 1]

I honestly would believe that they were just sent back to prison.

[Ed Zitron]

No, they're not. There's a reward.

[Host 2]

People usually don't survive.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Guest 1]

Was all of this testing created specifically because of Versailles?

[Host 2]

Yeah, I mean, that's not the. I guess there are people, other people are getting poisoned.

[Ed Zitron]

This is not only a thing in France, Right. Elements of this exist elsewhere. But this poisoning economy is created and.

[Host 2]

Largely develops because of the big sex house.

[Ed Zitron]

Shit like this existed under the Roman Empire.

[Host 2]

And further back, people always provided poisons.

[Ed Zitron]

And stuff, but this specific version of the industry crops up as a result of Versailles. Right.

[Guest 1]

So you've got the witch economy, you've got the poison economy and of course the devil economy.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

Basically the extant poisoning and devil economy that had existed in France that was.

[Host 2]

Probably similar to the way it works.

[Ed Zitron]

In its neighbors becomes this specific thing because of Versailles.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

That's fair to say, I think. I don't wanna. I don't wanna be like no one else poisons people.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Everyone's poisoning people. You know, we poison people today.

[Ed Zitron]

We've gotten very good at it thanks to the Russians.

[Host 2]

You know, I thought it was gonna.

[Guest 1]

Be an ad break.

[Ed Zitron]

Speaking of which. Yeah. It is time for our ads and we are sponsored entirely by Novchuck. Novachuck.

[Host 1]

Oh, no.

[Host 2]

If you want a lot of people dead very quickly in a way that will alert the entire security establishment of whatever country you poison them in. Nova, Chuck.

[Nancy Grace]

Stay on top of breaking crime news with Crime Alert Hourly Update available now.

[Reporter]

I'm Nancy Grace. Our team of reporters and experts is dedicated to bringing you the top crime headlines you need to know. Every hour on the hour. From missing people to trial updates and true crime stories, we bring you the latest real time news and analysis.

[Nancy Grace]

Whether it's the latest developments in a high profile case or urgent alerts about missing persons, Crime Alert Hourly Update delivers the news you need to know as it happens.

[Reporter]

Stay informed, keep yourself and your family safe with Crime Alert Hourly Update, the only podcast delivering hourly true crime updates.

[Nancy Grace]

Subscribe now to Crime Alert Hourly Update and never miss a moment of breaking crime news. Listen to Crime Alert Hourly Update on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host 2]

We're back.

[Ed Zitron]

Ed, I can't believe you didn't accept the Novichuck ads. For better offline.

[Host 2]

It really seems like a natural move for you.

[Guest 1]

You know, I'm just saving my first, like, ad read for like Hanwha, I think, like, or Lockheed, you know, the. The greats that really are. I want to associate with the brand.

[Host 2]

I mean, we're working on a Raytheon sponsorship for you.

[Guest 1]

Thank you. See this, this is cool Zone Media.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Largely sponsored by Raytheon now. Get it?

[Guest 1]

Oh, God.

[Host 2]

Or a. Who is it? The Sikorsky? Like, get Ed doing Blackhawk ads.

[Guest 1]

We're called Academy now. And that's in the past.

[Host 2]

That's in the past.

[Ed Zitron]

Back to the poisoning economy. Periodically, poisoners would be caught and brought to justice. This happened in 1676 with the Marquis de Brinvilliers, who poisoned her father and two brothers, but failed to poison her husband.

[Host 2]

And it's like a weird story.

[Ed Zitron]

Her lover, who was her accomplice, and.

[Host 2]

Poisoning the rest of her family. I don't fully understand, but he, like.

[Ed Zitron]

Decides to feed her husband the antidote.

[Host 2]

Because I think maybe of some strange sense of guilt.

[Ed Zitron]

So she gets caught and sentenced and executed. And her trial is a media sensation. All of these newsletters and whatnot in.

[Host 2]

Paris, like every cafe in Paris, people.

[Ed Zitron]

Are talking about the trial over this poisoner, this rich noblewoman who is, like, poisoning her family.

[Host 2]

And before one thing they're majorly talking.

[Ed Zitron]

About is before she is beheaded, she says it's unfair. I'm the only one being punished for this.

[Host 2]

Because everyone at Versailles does this, right?

[Guest 1]

All of the nobles. It's the baseball sticky stuff conversation all over again. Where they ban the substance.

[Ed Zitron]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

And she's not lying, right? Like, it's extremely common to do all of this. Now, this is an accurate complaint and.

[Ed Zitron]

It sets off kind of a public moral panic over witchcraft and poison. Just about the only person who had been unaware of the trade in spells and poisons was the Sun King. Again, because all of this is being.

[Host 2]

Done in order to, like, get closer to him and curry favor with him.

[Ed Zitron]

He orders the Paris Chief of Police, Gabriel Deloraine, to investigate. And what follows is a three year plunge into the magical underground, where inheritance powders made of arsenic were sold alongside black masses performed by priests. From an article in the BBC History magazine by Johnny Wilkes. One of the most popular potion peddlers was La Voisin, who named among her clients those looking for advantage. At Versailles, the Duke de Luxembourg bought charms to keep him safe from swords, while a number of women looked for any additive to seduce the King.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I want some sword pills.

[Guest 1]

And there's no other way to protect from a sword?

[Host 2]

No, no, no. Only drugs. And it's funny because Alex George at, like, at like formal, especially at formal.

[Ed Zitron]

Events, but basically all the time, swords are mandatory dress at Versailles to the extent that if you forget one, they'll give you. They'll loan you a sword at the door.

[Guest 1]

Oh, you don't want to use the loner sword.

[Host 2]

You don't want to use the loner sword. No, no, no.

[Guest 1]

Everyone's gonna be like, check out over there with the loner sword.

[Ed Zitron]

He didn't bring his own sword.

[Host 2]

That's a rental.

[Guest 1]

That's a rental sword. Hasn't even got a sword amulet either.

[Host 2]

Yeah, and no sword amulet. What a dick. So with De La Reynie convinced of.

[Ed Zitron]

An epidemic, Louis appointed a special tribunal in April of 1679. Its sessions took place in halls lit only by flaming torches. The Chamber Ardente.

[Host 2]

Burning chamber.

[Ed Zitron]

More than 400 people were accused, dozens exiled, and 36 put to death, including Lavoisine.

[Host 2]

And this is partly because part of why this gets so bad is they. They, or at least De La Rainey, says there was a plot to poison.

[Ed Zitron]

The King to death.

[Guest 2]

Right, Right.

[Host 2]

And maybe there was, because people don't enjoy living this way.

[Guest 1]

I was gonna say, like, it feels like there would have been more attempts on the king.

[Host 2]

I feel like there probably was a plot to poison the king.

[Ed Zitron]

Seems like a natural thing to want.

[Host 2]

To do in this situation, to leave, like, the.

[Guest 1]

The frat house we were CES thing.

[Host 2]

Like, it's an understandable evolution of I'm.

[Ed Zitron]

Poisoning all of my friends to get.

[Host 2]

Close to the King. What if we just poison the king?

[Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

We could go home.

[Host 2]

Yeah, we could go home. I could sleep.

[Guest 1]

I can piss.

[Host 2]

Quote.

[Ed Zitron]

Fear spread among a court already riddled with suspicion, and the deaths continued. But Louis put an end to things after he heard a name of someone implicated that alarmed him. The Madame de Montespan, his mistress. Fearing the king may tire of her, she is said to have sprinkled love potions into his food. Potions made from Spanish fly iron fillings, sperm, and minstrel blood. It was even claimed she had a priest perform a sacrilegious mass over her naked body, which involved the sacrifice of an infant. Montespan was never tried, but the Truffer revealed something dark and rotting at the.

[Host 2]

Heart of Louis, Versailles, Utopia and Jesus Christ. And that's the thing that escalated, huh?

[Host 1]

That was not subtle.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Guest 1]

Is the thing that's weird.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

Have a priest do a spell. So the king likes me to.

[Host 2]

Like I'm putting sperm and minstrel blood in his food.

[Guest 1]

All right, I got the menstrual blood.

[Host 2]

Fuck off.

[Guest 1]

I got the cum.

[Host 2]

Where do I get to cum?

[Guest 1]

God damn it.

[Host 2]

Someone get me some cum.

[Ed Zitron]

You over there in the corner.

[Host 2]

You want to make a dollar? Oh, man, it's so funny. I don't know that an infant was sacrificed. I feel like every satanic panic, they talk about sacrificing babies.

[Ed Zitron]

I feel like it's pretty uncommon to.

[Host 2]

Sacrifice babies, but maybe, like, these people are not in their minds enough. I wouldn't. And they could get a baby, right? It's not hard to get a baby for the tax Cuts, Right, right. Of course, you do need that baby. Might make you immune to taxes.

[Guest 1]

Unless it's like the 11th baby, in which case.

[Host 2]

But most of the babies are dying. So, like, I can see if like some rich lady's like, hey man, you know that kid of yours isn't looking great.

[Ed Zitron]

I need a baby.

[Guest 1]

You go. Any condom here as well?

[Host 2]

Also, do you have any kump? Try to do one stop shopping here. Oh, man. Oh, boy, what a great culture. I love the economy. I love the magic of the court in Versailles, the common dead baby trade.

[Guest 1]

This house is like half of the economy.

[Host 2]

This is half of the rich economy. Yes. I mean, that's how it costs that much. I don't know if they're spending that much each year because it does make money by this point. But yes, this house that cost half.

[Ed Zitron]

Of the GDP to build.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

That's ruining the lives of every noble.

[Host 2]

It's destroying the country now, driving them insane.

[Guest 1]

It's like a gossip industry he has.

[Host 2]

Created like the cultural equivalent of a.

[Ed Zitron]

Death star, but it's aimed at his own country.

[Host 2]

Like, and it's.

[Guest 1]

Very few people are random as well.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Now all of this, like this story, people can't stop talking about this in Paris.

[Guest 1]

I can't stop thinking about it, of course.

[Ed Zitron]

And this massively accelerates the growth of a news ecosystem in Paris.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Ah. And the news, this kind of.

[Host 2]

I'm going to lay out how this works.

[Ed Zitron]

This whole news ecosystem in Paris sprouts. It had existed before Louis, some aspects of it. There had been these things called leibelles.

[Host 2]

For years, which were like books about different people in government and politics. And, you know, including some of the king's mistresses that were like books attacking them.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Which are usually illegal, but they're sold quite often. Those that existed before Louis xiv. Obviously there had been some kinds of.

[Host 2]

Papers in other countries that would get into France. But what really accelerates the birth of a massive and honestly, very modern feeling news ecosystem in Paris is Versailles.

[Ed Zitron]

Because now that all of power is centralized at Versailles and all of the.

[Host 2]

People in power, including the king, are no longer having much of contact at all with regular people.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

They're not governing out of the same.

[Host 2]

City that that French people live in.

[Ed Zitron]

They're increasingly locked in their own world.

[Host 2]

So if you're a normal French person, the media becomes your way to keep.

[Ed Zitron]

In touch with the government.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

This alien world of Versailles, you know, and so that is a lot of.

[Ed Zitron]

The fuel by which creates something very similar to our current social media. Ecosystem in Paris.

[Host 2]

Part of why this is able to.

[Ed Zitron]

Work is that literacy is actually very.

[Host 2]

Common in Paris, even among the poor.

[Ed Zitron]

Like a significant amount of people do know how to read, even people who do not come from money. But even if you don't know how.

[Host 2]

To read, there's like an equivalent to.

[Ed Zitron]

TV news which are called, I'm not gonna use the French term for it, but they're called oral newsmongers.

[Host 2]

Right, as in someone who like just.

[Ed Zitron]

Tells you the news. Right. These are like the newscasters of their day.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Cause it's not tv, but there's a.

[Ed Zitron]

Large chestnut tree in the center of.

[Host 2]

Paris called the Tree of Krakow. And so in the early mornings, these oral newsmongers will gather up all the.

[Ed Zitron]

Newspapers they can, all the gossip, you.

[Host 2]

Know, they collected the night before, and.

[Ed Zitron]

They'Ll go out and they'll like read the best bits out to the crowd, right.

[Host 2]

And you know, people will throw them.

[Ed Zitron]

Some money for that. And the people who stand around, another chunk of people will stand around listening to these oral newsmongers. Some of them are just doing that to get the news in the morning. Some of them are taking notes on what these people say.

[Host 2]

And then these notes sometimes get turned.

[Ed Zitron]

Into pamphlets, but usually they'll just bring.

[Host 2]

Them to the cafes and the bars later in the day and read them.

[Ed Zitron]

Out to everyone there.

[Host 2]

And as a result, news disseminates in.

[Ed Zitron]

A very modern way. This is almost like having 24 hour TV news. It's like a podcast, really. Yeah, or a podcast.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And that then turns in, in some cases it turns into like print news.

[Host 2]

But it also turns into direct gossip. That's, it's, it's closer to like, if.

[Ed Zitron]

You think of the Tree of Krakow.

[Host 2]

As like TV news, and then these.

[Ed Zitron]

Cafes and bars are like Twitter and Facebook. Right?

[Host 2]

So it is, in a lot of.

[Ed Zitron]

Ways it's an extremely modern seeming system that develops here.

[Guest 1]

It's so crazy how many different systems grew out of this necessity.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Guest 1]

To create this insane alien world where the people that run the government. I was just thinking like, like these are the people running the government. They're not just like fucking around, they're also running France.

[Ed Zitron]

They are running France. And that's why again, pieces of this, aspects of what becomes this news economy existed before Versailles. Versailles supercharges it and it also fuels it. Because most much not maybe if not most. Well, actually, honestly, usually most of what.

[Host 2]

Is being talked about at the Tree.

[Ed Zitron]

Of Krakow and in these cafes starts as gossip.

[Host 2]

People at the courts smuggle out you.

[Ed Zitron]

Know, send out with an aid or whatnot. They'll write it down, they'll send it.

[Host 2]

To somebody that they know, you know.

[Ed Zitron]

Passes stuff on to the people making these papers that are being smuggled in.

[Host 2]

The France, or they'll pass it on to oral newsmongers. Because I want to get this piece.

[Ed Zitron]

Of gossip out because it's bad for a rival.

[Host 2]

I want to get this piece of gossip out because it will hurt this.

[Ed Zitron]

Person close to the king or it'll embarrass the king and stop him from doing something that's bad for me for whatever reason.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Guest 1]

And honestly, no wonder this grew, because it was fucking insane. And if this was going on right now, this would be all I cared about.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yes, yes. This is the only thing you'd want to talk about is the crazy house.

[Guest 1]

Why would you be like, what's going on at. Someone poisoned?

[Host 2]

How'd they poison this crazy house?

[Guest 1]

Yeah, he pissed.

[Host 2]

Yeah. So it was said that if you.

[Ed Zitron]

During, you know, when these oral newsmongers would get up and give the news under that chestnut tree, that if you.

[Host 2]

Heard a branch crack, that meant that the newsmonger had gotten something wrong.

[Ed Zitron]

And so C R A Q U E crack became slang for fake news.

[Host 2]

That's the first, like, fake news term in the West.

[Ed Zitron]

From here, people in attendance would again take notes on the best bits in the decamp for cafes, wine shops and salons. Police would sometimes confiscate these notes when they could, but this was all simply too common to stop.

[Host 2]

The system is still in its infancy.

[Ed Zitron]

During the reign of the Sun King, but it starts to really grow during the reign of the Sun King, and it will evolve over the next two reigns. And ultimately, this is a huge part of why there's a revolution, right? The fact that there's these papers, there's these revolutionary presses and tracts, and the fact that.

[Host 2]

That all of this gossip about royalty.

[Ed Zitron]

Is really bad PR for the nobility and for the king and queen, they just sound insane.

[Host 2]

They sound insane and awful and it's kind of fucked up. As we'll talk about eventually, the king.

[Ed Zitron]

And queen, who ultimately pay the price.

[Host 2]

Which includes the Queen being Marie Antoinette and her husband Louis xvi, are not.

[Ed Zitron]

Nearly as bad as the Sun King.

[Host 2]

And in fact, my opinion of them.

[Ed Zitron]

Is they were kind of trying to do the best they knew how to, but they were raised number one in.

[Host 2]

This insane place and a deranged culture.

[Ed Zitron]

That has gotten even crazier by the.

[Host 2]

Time they come in.

[Ed Zitron]

There's just no chance of them ever Fixing.

[Guest 1]

Can I ask a question? How long has this been going on so far? Like, how long has Versailles been around at this point?

[Host 2]

I mean, by the time we're into the 1680s, like, 20 years, something like that. Oh, my God, 15, 20, I think so decades of insanity. Like, yeah, we're in the people growing up in it now.

[Ed Zitron]

Growing up?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

Well, yes, yes, because again, the sun.

[Host 2]

King reigns 72 years.

[Guest 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

So. And you know, Versailles, he starts building when he's like, 24.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

So he is around with it for a long time.

[Host 2]

People are born and die with Versailles.

[Ed Zitron]

Being the center of the French world.

[Host 2]

During his lifetime, you know, and his.

[Ed Zitron]

Time as the king.

[Host 2]

Now, again, it's important to note that.

[Ed Zitron]

The main reason why this very modern information ecosystem gets off the ground is there's this desire of what are called the little people to understand what the big people are doing at Versailles.

[Guest 1]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

As Robert Darnton writes in the Revolutionary Temper, which is a great book about the way the media worked in Paris.

[Host 2]

Leading up to the revolution, for most.

[Ed Zitron]

Parisians, especially the little people, Versailles was an alien world and politics was the king's business, transacted in his name by ministers, courtiers and power brokers. Among Legrands, that's the big people. Yet word about the power plays leaked from Versailles and it converged with all.

[Host 2]

Sorts of other news.

[Ed Zitron]

In the information system of Paris, Legrands at the top of society had access. And these are not just nobles. Right. Wealthy merchants are also at Versailles, and in fact, there's a whole cottage industry and books for rich people who are not nobles, who need to understand the stuff that nobles are raised understanding in order to not embarrass themselves. At Versailles, that becomes like a cottage industry.

[Host 2]

And, yeah, like a big part of what fuels this is, you know, these.

[Ed Zitron]

People doling out rumors and lies, often for social cachet.

[Host 2]

If someone makes a crude joke at.

[Ed Zitron]

The king's expense or flirts with one of his mistresses, they can upset dynamics at the palace in ways that are beneficial to them. Now, the downside of this constant churn.

[Host 2]

Is that people outside of Versailles get.

[Ed Zitron]

This feeling that everything going on there is like.

[Host 2]

Like illegal, immoral sex, gambling and wasting.

[Ed Zitron]

All of the country's money.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Which is partially, largely accurate. Right? Yeah.

[Guest 1]

It doesn't sound like they were unreasonable in believing that.

[Ed Zitron]

What's kind of fucked up is that.

[Host 2]

Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI are like, compared to Louis xiv, fairly moral people. They do not engage in at least.

[Ed Zitron]

Nearly the same level of adultery. They are less wasteful than the kings.

[Host 2]

Before them, but because this.

[Ed Zitron]

Because the royalty have this reputation, by.

[Host 2]

Their time, they get that reputation too.

[Guest 2]

Right, Right.

[Host 2]

Like, because everyone, for a hundred years, all that everyone's been writing about how.

[Ed Zitron]

Fucked up Versailles is, they're not going to stop now just because these people.

[Host 2]

Are like 40% less shitty.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Which is not to say that Antoinette and Louis XVI weren't shitty or wasteful. They just weren't as bad as their predecessors.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, Right. So as he aged, the Sun King did grow less promiscuous and more focused on maintaining control. As Johnny Wilkes writes, Louis turned his life movements and even ablutions, which is.

[Host 2]

Like, you know, his toilet, his cleaning.

[Ed Zitron]

Himself, into a daily performance governed by a seemingly endless list of detailed rituals and strict rules of etiquette, all in order to keep the nobles busy. All revolved around the Sun King. Starting when he first awoke, a select.

[Host 2]

Group would be granted access to the.

[Ed Zitron]

King's bedchamber, although they were not to cross the river railing to get near the bed during the ceremonial rising. And only the most senior in the room had the honor of helping Louis into his shirt.

[Guest 1]

Did the same thing at ces.

[Host 2]

Yeah, same thing. Yeah. That's exactly how we handle CES now.

[Ed Zitron]

The fact that life there was a constant series of balls and parties necessitated constant grand state expenses for fireworks, which sometimes kill people and food and the.

[Host 2]

Like, but it also kept the courtiers.

[Ed Zitron]

There in constant debt. Many had to borrow from the crown to afford the accoutrements of life at Versailles.

[Host 2]

Wait, yeah, the King.

[Guest 1]

They had to borrow from the King to go to the King's party.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, yes.

[Host 2]

And this is again part of how.

[Ed Zitron]

He maintains control when the sun.

[Host 2]

And part of why it's so expensive.

[Ed Zitron]

Is like, what's acceptable fashion changes on a whim. So when the King starts to go bald, wigs become fashionable.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Ed Zitron]

And suddenly everyone should have a wig because the King does. And when the King has ass surgery for an anal fistula, people start wearing.

[Host 2]

Like, bandages around their crotches. Just like it's.

[Guest 1]

Yeah, my bum hurts too, mate.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's also crazy up, man.

[Host 1]

It's like when we saw those guys wearing the ear bandage at the RNC this year.

[Host 2]

It. It is exactly like that, Sophie. Christ, this is like cargo cult. Just like that. Yes.

[Host 1]

Unhinged.

[Host 2]

This is.

[Guest 1]

This is so insane.

[Host 2]

They. Even if.

[Guest 1]

Even if this was just people partying, it would be strange. But the fact that this is the, like the economy by the.

[Ed Zitron]

By this point, the 1680s, a decent.

[Host 2]

Number of the people here have been like, raised in this, you know, they don't know another world exists.

[Guest 1]

Jesus Christ.

[Ed Zitron]

In 1683, the Queen died, and Louis married his current mistress, Madame de Maintenon.

[Host 2]

He was less of a wretched by.

[Ed Zitron]

This point, in part for the sake of his immortal soul. A king who was known as an adulterer couldn't take communion while he lived in sin. This was a power that the Church had, and even the king really couldn't force them to do this. Once he was no longer in the prime of health. Louis worried about this more and more.

[Host 2]

Because if you die not taking communion, you go to hell, even a king.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

So that's the understanding that, like, if.

[Ed Zitron]

The king is committing adultery and doesn't.

[Host 2]

Stop in time to get forgiven and, you know, given his communion and last rites and whatnot, then he goes to hell.

[Ed Zitron]

Even the king will go to hell. And as he gets sicker and older.

[Host 2]

Louis worries about this more.

[Ed Zitron]

Now, as I said, the King Sun.

[Host 2]

King's reign is impossibly long by the standard. Like, 30 years is a long reign.

[Ed Zitron]

For a modern dictator with access to modern medicine, if you make it to 30 years as a dictator, you are doing very well.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

The Sun King reigns for 72 years. He is the longest recorded reigning monarch in human history.

[Host 2]

Now, there's some argument about this with.

[Ed Zitron]

People for whom our documentation is less good because datekeeping was just in a very different state.

[Host 2]

But, I mean, I can't.

[Ed Zitron]

It's very hard for someone to be.

[Host 2]

King for longer than 72 years, you.

[Guest 1]

Know, and it was likely sustained by the complete insane otherworld he made.

[Host 2]

Well, yeah, that was also the government thing. Yeah.

[Guest 1]

What if Congress was just Vegas, my house. Yeah. What if the House of Representatives was a place they lived.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

And fucked.

[Host 2]

Yeah. That said, you know, by the time.

[Ed Zitron]

He'S getting late in his reign, kings are like anyone else. As they age, the shit that used.

[Host 2]

To work don't work. And Louis had been, for most of.

[Ed Zitron]

His life, a very successful war leader. But in the last decades of his reign, he makes increasingly poor decisions, and.

[Host 2]

And some of these lead him to.

[Ed Zitron]

Participate in the War of Spanish Succession in the early 1700s.

[Host 2]

A lot of the wars in this.

[Ed Zitron]

Period are wars of succession. A king will die without an heir.

[Host 2]

Everyone will feel like. Well, I feel like one of my.

[Ed Zitron]

Relatives should be in there, you know.

[Host 2]

And then maybe France, you know, can effectively be helping to govern Spain or whatever.

[Ed Zitron]

This does not work.

[Host 2]

Or at least what Louis wants out.

[Ed Zitron]

Of the War of Spanish Succession, he doesn't get the war is kind of a mixed bag for France. Her ambitions in Spain are stymied, but she does close the war out after years with some strong wins against Austria.

[Host 2]

Right, so it's not a total calamity, but it's hideously unpopular and by the.

[Ed Zitron]

End, the country is, like, bankrupt. And in fact, the economy shits the.

[Host 2]

Bed so bad that Louis has to.

[Ed Zitron]

Melt down 10 million livres worth of silver furniture at Versailles to pay the Crown Crown's debts. This is not a good deal because it only results in 3 million livres worth of metal. Newsmongers whisper that the King might have made more headway on the Crown's debts if he had sold the Crown diamonds.

[Host 2]

But Louis couldn't stand the idea. He loved seeing his female relatives, his.

[Ed Zitron]

Nieces and granddaughters and the like, wearing diamonds. And he was absolutely unwilling to sell those diamonds.

[Guest 1]

And that's unreasonable to expect of him, of course.

[Ed Zitron]

Of course. Exactly.

[Host 2]

And look, if you don't want to sell your royal diamonds, uh, you know.

[Guest 1]

I wouldn't sell mine.

[Ed Zitron]

Buy some diamonds from our sponsors.

[Nancy Grace]

Stay on top of breaking crime news with Crime Alert Hourly Update available now.

[Reporter]

I'm Nancy Grace. Our team of reporters and experts is dedicated to bringing you the top crime headlines you need to know. Every hour on the hour. From Mrs. Missing People to trial updates and true crime stories, we bring you the latest real time news and analysis.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Reporter]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Host 1]

You okay?

[Host 2]

Yep. Yeah, I'm good.

[Guest 1]

Just emotional that he couldn't have this, that he can't turn Call Zone Media into the party house.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Guest 1]

This is what CES is going to become for me, though. This has inspired me.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

I have always wanted to create a giant house and make all of the podcasters live there.

[Host 2]

Podcasting Versailles.

[Host 1]

It's called a content house.

[Host 2]

It's called a content house.

[Host 1]

And don't look up the suicide rate.

[Host 2]

Yeah, no, that does sound like a nightmare. The pod save guys are going to be poisoning each other to get closer. Actually, that part sounds rad.

[Guest 1]

Sounds great.

[Host 2]

So we're. Yeah, I mean, we've been back, but.

[Ed Zitron]

Versailles had to Downsize in its last years. Right.

[Host 2]

Louis the 14th is not doing as.

[Ed Zitron]

Well at the end of his reign as he had at the beginning.

[Host 2]

France is broke and it will. It will be in a kind of semi constant state of being broke until.

[Ed Zitron]

You know, Marie Antoinette and her husband.

[Host 2]

And husband get forced out.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

For an idea of how fucked up.

[Ed Zitron]

Things get at Versailles. At the height of the Sun King's power, there had been 1500 fountains at Versailles. By the time of Marie Antoinette, there are only 300.

[Host 2]

You know.

[Ed Zitron]

Tragic. It's tragic.

[Host 2]

You hate to see it.

[Guest 1]

I only have 200. I mean that's.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I mean it really is, you know. And Ed, I've been telling you you need another 1300 fountains. And I agree. And just found technology has advanced so much, it is crazy.

[Ed Zitron]

Versus this one palace. For the king had more fountains by a long shot than Las Vegas, Nevada.

[Host 2]

Yeah, like, like way more fountains.

[Guest 1]

How big were they though?

[Host 2]

Some of them were pretty big. They're pretty big. And they have to because the technology.

[Ed Zitron]

Is not as good.

[Host 2]

And there's like getting enough water is harder. They're having to constantly turn them on and off as the king approaches different areas.

[Ed Zitron]

So he doesn't know that they're not on.

[Host 2]

And also just because like you can't.

[Ed Zitron]

Have them all functioning at once. There's too many.

[Host 2]

So there's this whole network of like people running back and forth. The King's going here, now you gotta like turn this one off. Get the flow going to that one. Right.

[Guest 1]

There's a decent chance he had no idea that any of this is happening. That just like reality to him must be complete. Must have been completely insane.

[Host 2]

That's just hard.

[Guest 1]

Like life fucking rocks. I walk around, there's always fountains.

[Ed Zitron]

There's always fountains. Or he took a lot of joy.

[Host 2]

In the fact that everyone was constantly working.

[Ed Zitron]

And there was an extent to which he did want everyone always obsessed with keeping him happy.

[Host 2]

Right. But it is that also that's kind.

[Ed Zitron]

Of that causes brain damage.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Being this separated from reality and this insulated from everyone else.

[Host 2]

And living in a situation like that, this like you would be hurting your.

[Ed Zitron]

Head less by just standing next to 155 millimeter howitzer while it fires all day.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Like I cannot overemphasize how bad this is for you and how much this.

[Ed Zitron]

Affects his judgment making.

[Host 2]

Right, Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And he's also older.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Which means that he's not thinking as.

[Ed Zitron]

Clearly as he used to be. Maybe there's some dementia here too.

[Host 2]

He's sicker but he makes a lot of bad decisions.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

And he's aware of this to some extent.

[Ed Zitron]

Some of his last words are generally reported as being, I have loved war too much.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, he really seems to regret.

[Host 2]

And that's what he passes on to his successor.

[Ed Zitron]

Don't do as many wars as I did. It ended badly. Right.

[Host 2]

I got way too into war and it ended.

[Guest 1]

Everything else I did was great.

[Host 2]

We are broke to melt down my furniture.

[Guest 1]

Wait, wait, wait. But also, the furniture was made of fucking silver.

[Ed Zitron]

A lot of it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

What the fuck? It's just a bunch of fucking full metal.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of it's plated. Oh, I'm sure a decent amount of it's silver plated, but also not all of it.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

He does have the money for pure.

[Host 2]

Silver chairs and stuff, you know? Pure silver chairs. He's the king. Yeah. What the.

[Guest 1]

So good.

[Host 2]

And again, this is one of kind of like the.

[Ed Zitron]

I don't know if tragedy is the right word, but one of the things that is, like, unjust here is that.

[Host 2]

The last king in his line, Louis xvi, Marie Antoinette's husband, is going to be murdered in part as a result.

[Ed Zitron]

Of this horrible system of debt that.

[Host 2]

Gets started in the end of the Sun King's reign.

[Ed Zitron]

Louis XVI hates war. He's like the only one of these guys who is not at all interested in starting wars.

[Host 2]

He does get involved in the war.

[Ed Zitron]

That the US Has.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Like our war of independence. But he's not like a. A warmonger in the same way that his relatives had been, in part because he sees where it takes the kingdom. But he's ultimately going to pay with his head the price for all of the warmongering that his. His grandpa and great grandpa and whatnot.

[Host 2]

Do, or his great grandpa and I guess great great grandpa.

[Ed Zitron]

It gets a little confusing because Sen.

[Host 2]

Since Louis the 14th had reigned for 72 years, he didn't have any kids that are alive.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Those fuckers all died a while ago, you know.

[Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

They got poisoned or they got the fucking. And he hasn't been having more of symbolis or whatever. Yeah, well, he's had a lot of. He's had a lot.

[Guest 1]

But they probably trickled out as his willy stopped working.

[Host 2]

Right, Right. And so it's going to be his successor who becomes Louis xv, which, if.

[Ed Zitron]

You'Ve seen the Sofia Coppola Marie Antoinette movie, this is the guy.

[Host 2]

Rip Torn place.

[Guest 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

The second Louis in the Versailles line. There are only three kings during the period of Versailles Being the center of France.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

The Sun King, Louis XV and Louis xvi. And Louis XIV had reigned so long.

[Ed Zitron]

That Louis XV is his great grandson son.

[Host 2]

He was five years old when he.

[Ed Zitron]

Was crowned the king. And this came as a surprise.

[Host 2]

He was not expected up until kind.

[Ed Zitron]

Of the last moment that he would be the Delphine.

[Host 2]

And Delphine is the French word for.

[Ed Zitron]

The prince that's going to inherit being the king.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

That's the Delphine. So this comes as a surprise.

[Ed Zitron]

Other people are in line to be the king before him up until the last minute. In the last five years of the Sun King's reign, the grand and petite dauphines, which are the first and second in line for the throne, both die.

[Host 2]

Of smallpox and measles respectively.

[Ed Zitron]

Louis XV's brother, who was also ahead of him, becomes dauphine.

[Host 2]

But then he gets measles. And also Louis XV gets measles too.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Host 2]

They both get measles at the same time. His older brother dies, he survives. And again, stories like this are very.

[Ed Zitron]

Common at Versailles in particular.

[Host 2]

That's not the only. Obviously, it's a lot more common to die of sicknesses like this and for.

[Ed Zitron]

Them to sweep through families, even noble families, all throughout Europe.

[Host 2]

But everyone, you've got 3,000 people living in one big house.

[Ed Zitron]

Disease spreads more readily.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Guest 1]

And a place where people probably hide their symptoms as well because they don't want the king to think.

[Host 2]

Because the king gets angry. If you're sick. Yeah, yeah.

[Guest 1]

Because it's your form.

[Host 2]

Yes, yes. So Louis XV ultimately becomes king because.

[Ed Zitron]

Every three other guys die in quick succession over the course of a couple of years. And the treatment for measles that he and his brother both undergo is bloodletting, and that kills his brother, but he survives. Now, in the Sun King's last days, he rewrote his will to limit the next king's power and establish a regency council.

[Host 2]

Because he knows that the next king.

[Ed Zitron]

Is gonna be Fox.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

And he also knows that.

[Guest 1]

Oh, that's the reason.

[Host 2]

Well, the bigger reason is that a five year old can't be king. He has to wait till he's 13.

[Ed Zitron]

But the kid's great uncle, Philip II.

[Host 2]

The Duke of Orleans, he's the guy.

[Ed Zitron]

Who'S supposed to be regent, so ruling in the king's stead. The Sun King doesn't like the Duke of Orleans because he's an atheist and a warmonger. Right?

[Host 2]

Oh, okay. That's how the Sun King King sees him.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And instead, the Sun King wants his bastard son, the Duke of Maine. To be the regent until Louis XV.

[Host 2]

Is old enough to take up the job.

[Ed Zitron]

So he rewrites his will.

[Host 2]

But as soon as the Sun King.

[Ed Zitron]

Dies, Philippe leads a coup in the wake of the Sun King's death. And he goes to the Parliament of Paris, which is again a legal body, and he convinces them to annul parts of the King's will. In exchange, he reaffirms what is going to be called the right of remonstrance, which is Parliament's power to challenge the King to say no if the King.

[Host 2]

Says, I want a new tax or something.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

And the fact that the Parliament gets.

[Ed Zitron]

This power back is going to lead to a number of conflicts that become contributing factors to the revolution.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And it's as a result of these kind of court politics. Right. Philippe wants to be the regent, he.

[Host 2]

Doesn'T want this other guy to be the regent, you know, right after this, you know, this whole mess with the.

[Ed Zitron]

Will is sorted out. The child King Louis XV has a.

[Host 2]

Normal childhood, you know, by which I.

[Ed Zitron]

Mean at age 7, he's given to a 73 year old general and taught military etiquette and court etiquette. He learns how to ride and hunt. While Philippe proved that the Sun King had been right not to trust him. One of Philippe's first big moves is to make a Scottish economist named John Law the Comptroller General of finances. Law opens a private bank that becomes one of the first banks in the world to issue paper money.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Massive innovation. Unfortunately, the primary purpose of this bank is to take investments for the Mississippi Company, which meant to colonize Louisiana.

[Host 2]

And if you've been there recently, you.

[Ed Zitron]

Know, this didn't work out for the French.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

You know, New Orleans is pretty nice, but, like, overall they don't. Louisiana doesn't become a great functional colony. And this is kind of like a.

[Ed Zitron]

Ponzi scheme of its day because it collapses. The plan collapses, which kills the national.

[Host 2]

Bank and bankrupts a huge chunk of.

[Ed Zitron]

The nobility who had invested into it.

[Host 2]

It.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Guest 1]

Oh, God.

[Host 2]

Like, this is like a massive financial.

[Ed Zitron]

Disaster of its day. So more of these guys go in debt to the Crown, and the Crown knows primarily how to help these guys. If you want to help these nobles.

[Host 2]

Who are close to the King, rebuild.

[Ed Zitron]

Their fortunes, your main way of doing that is to give them the right to tax certain areas. And there's only a limited number of these taxes, so you have to create.

[Host 2]

Like, new ones, which means the recovery.

[Ed Zitron]

Of these fortunes by the nobles is going to be borne largely by the poor and the Bourgeoisie, right? Uh huh.

[Host 2]

Louis XV gets married to one of his cousins, Mariana Victoria of Spain. This is a.

[Guest 1]

From Australia.

[Ed Zitron]

There's a six year age gap, she's three and he's nine.

[Guest 1]

Problematic.

[Host 2]

Problematic. But not for either of them. They're not really in charge of this at this point. They are gonna six year old and.

[Ed Zitron]

A three year old or a nine.

[Host 2]

Year old and a three year old.

[Ed Zitron]

The bride is sent to the Louvre.

[Host 2]

To live with her husband. But after about four years of this.

[Guest 1]

The child bride to the child husband.

[Host 2]

The child bride to the child king.

[Ed Zitron]

Got it? Then Philippe dies and she gets sent back home because she's not old enough to have kids.

[Host 2]

Thank God there's that understanding. This seven year old's a little young to have children, but you know, it's fucking France.

[Guest 1]

They were like thinking about.

[Host 2]

They thought about it, right?

[Ed Zitron]

Louis XV takes over ruling duties at age 13 in June of 1722.

[Host 2]

And again, when we talk about the.

[Ed Zitron]

Degree of complicity by this point, Louis.

[Host 2]

The 14th totally responsible for his actions. Louis XV partially. But you do have to take into.

[Ed Zitron]

Account this man becomes king at age 13. And again, Marie Antoinette yet married at 13.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

These are children being thrown into these roles. And to the head of this insane.

[Host 2]

You are taking a 13 year old and saying, hey, you are now the.

[Ed Zitron]

Head of the most like insidiously fucked.

[Host 2]

Up and mentally dominating cult that has ever existed.

[Guest 1]

Built for someone else.

[Host 2]

Built for someone else.

[Guest 1]

Good luck. By someone else. When they were more sane than they are now. Which they were not very sane before, but now they're really insane.

[Host 2]

This cult designed by like a once in a several generations political genius king.

[Ed Zitron]

Was a mature adult.

[Host 2]

Yes. Good luck. Good luck.

[Ed Zitron]

So this thing that Versailles had initially been a way for him to exert control.

[Host 2]

By the time his successor takes over.

[Ed Zitron]

The system is controlling the king as much as it's controlling the nobles.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

They are no longer running things because.

[Host 2]

This increasingly arcane system of etiquette has.

[Ed Zitron]

Taken on a life of its own.

[Host 2]

And so from the beginning, Louis XV.

[Ed Zitron]

Is as much a prisoner of the system as he is the guy at its head. For an idea of how cloying and total it could be, a treatise from.

[Host 2]

1729 on napkin etiquetted.

[Ed Zitron]

It is ungentlemanly to use a napkin for wiping the face or scraping the teeth. And a vulgar error to wipe one's nose with it.

[Host 2]

The same thing with it. What the fuck do you do with it? You just keep. It's a look in napkin. You just keep it There looks. Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

The same treatise went on to insist, the person of highest rank in the company should unfold his napkin first. All others waiting until he has done so before they unfold theirs. When all of those present are social equals, all unfold together with no ceremony.

[Guest 1]

For this useless napkin.

[Host 2]

For a napkin. There's books written on napkins. Sick.

[Guest 1]

So good.

[Ed Zitron]

Every night includes a grand dinner, which is a public event. Anyone who is at Versailles can show.

[Host 2]

Up and watch the dinner, but it's.

[Ed Zitron]

Only public in the sense that the public can watch. Only the royal family gets to sit and eat.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And based on your rank, if you're.

[Host 2]

A duchess or a princess or someone similarly high ranking, you might get to.

[Ed Zitron]

Sit at a stool.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Guest 1]

Okay.

[Ed Zitron]

Everyone else has to stand. The king is the only one who gets a chair with armrests.

[Host 2]

I think his wife.

[Ed Zitron]

I think the king and queen both get armrests in their chairs. And if another king is visiting, he gets a chair with armrests.

[Host 2]

Right, Nice.

[Ed Zitron]

Although this is complicated because of all.

[Host 2]

Of this etiquette, like you can. If you were in a room with.

[Ed Zitron]

A bunch of people only. People can only start conversations with someone.

[Host 2]

Who is of an equal or lower rank to them.

[Ed Zitron]

So talking about anything is really fucked up.

[Host 2]

And generally when kings visit, when kings.

[Ed Zitron]

And queens visit, they visit incognito, which is they pretend to not be the.

[Host 2]

King of Russia or Prussia or wherever.

[Ed Zitron]

They pretend to be just another random nobleman with a fake name. Because then they don't have to deal.

[Host 2]

With all of this etiquette.

[Ed Zitron]

Because usually if you're a king who's heading there, you're heading there to handle some very serious state business, and you don't have the time to deal with.

[Host 2]

All this bullshit, so you just lie.

[Ed Zitron]

And say you're someone else and everyone knows. But then we don't have to do as much of the bullshit.

[Guest 2]

Right? Right.

[Guest 1]

But who decides who? The social hierarchy? Or is this arbitrary?

[Ed Zitron]

It's been decided over the course of years.

[Host 2]

So, I mean, again, a lot of.

[Ed Zitron]

This comes out of the earlier feudal system, right?

[Host 2]

But you have princes and princesses of.

[Ed Zitron]

The blood, which are above, you know, these kind of lower ranking nobles.

[Host 2]

And you've got this whole.

[Guest 1]

This would drive everyone insane. Every single person there is just experiencing psychosis at all times.

[Host 2]

People are. People are constantly like.

[Ed Zitron]

It's this maddening thing.

[Host 2]

Like if you are. If you are handing the.

[Ed Zitron]

And this happens if you're handing the king or the queen, if you're the.

[Host 2]

Highest ranking guy in the room, when.

[Ed Zitron]

They wake up and you're handing them.

[Host 2]

Their shirt and someone else walks in.

[Ed Zitron]

Who is of an equal or higher.

[Host 2]

Rank, you have to stop and give.

[Ed Zitron]

The shirt to them.

[Host 2]

There's a.

[Ed Zitron]

At one point when Marie Antoinette is.

[Host 2]

Like, new to the palace, this happens.

[Ed Zitron]

Like four or five times in a row. And she's just standing there naked in the freezing cold.

[Host 2]

Like, for the love of God, somebody.

[Ed Zitron]

Please give me clothes.

[Host 2]

You know, like, that is. That's an actual thing that happens. Oh, no. Another guy walked in.

[Ed Zitron]

Another lady walked in.

[Host 2]

No, no, no, she gets the shirt. Now look, we literally.

[Ed Zitron]

You are not allowed as the king.

[Host 2]

And like, by this point, if you're the king and the queen, you are an absolute monarch and you are literally not allowed to touch your own shirt because that would be this hideous violation of etiquette that would, like, upset this very intricate social system that everyone is reliant upon.

[Guest 1]

And the fear was that if you break any of these protocol, everything kind.

[Ed Zitron]

Of shatters, everything collapses. Right?

[Host 2]

That's exactly it.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Guest 1]

It's like the most expensive cult of all time.

[Host 2]

It's such a stupid system.

[Guest 1]

It's so funny, really.

[Host 2]

It's really funny and dumb.

[Ed Zitron]

So doors could not be knocked on, right?

[Host 2]

You can't knock on a door because.

[Ed Zitron]

The Sun King was annoyed by knocking.

[Host 2]

And so again, another of intricate etiquette.

[Ed Zitron]

Revolves around how you let someone know you're at the door. Because you also can't open doors. Only courtiers can open.

[Host 2]

Only like, like staff can open doors, basically.

[Ed Zitron]

Right?

[Host 2]

No one else can open doors. So you're not, you're not opening any doors. If you want to get in, you.

[Ed Zitron]

Have to scratch the door with your left little finger.

[Host 2]

Not your right, not your right.

[Ed Zitron]

Courtiers start growing this left fingernail out like the left lower little fingernail out.

[Host 2]

Like a coke nail so that they.

[Ed Zitron]

Can more effectively scratch the door to.

[Host 2]

Get whatever Lewis is reigning's attention at the time.

[Guest 1]

Just like a little, like a talon.

[Host 2]

Like a talon. You got a little talon, you got a coke nail for getting the kings.

[Guest 1]

Of expression discretion talon.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Lovely Etiquette enthusiast and etiquette a Pedia.

[Ed Zitron]

Editor, Mara Graeber lays out how absolutely claustrophobic the system was by Louis XV's reign. Quote. @ the palace, the courtiers lived under the despotic surveillance of the king. And upon their good behavior, their deference, and their observance of etiquette, their whole careers depended. If you displeased a Louis, he would simply not see you the following day. His gaze would pass over you as he surveyed the people before him, and not being seen by the King was tantamount to ceasing to count at Versailles. A whole timetable of ceremonies followed, much of it revolving around the King's own person. Intimacy with Louis meant power, and power was symbolically expressed in attending to certain of the King's most private and physical needs. Handing him his stockings to put on in the morning, being present as he.

[Host 2]

Used like the bathroom. Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Rushing when the signal sounded to be present as he got ready for bed. It mattered desperately what closeness to the King allowed you, whether he spoke to you in front of whom and for how long. The point about Versailles was that there was no escape. The courtiers had to make it where they were. The stage was the Louis, and the.

[Host 2]

Rules and the roles that could be.

[Ed Zitron]

Played were designed by him. It was up to each courtier to fit him or herself into one of the slots provided. The leaders of all the other towns and villages of France were made largely through the use of etiquette and more specifically through rudeness and judicious slighting by the tax collecting intention to feel their subordination, their distance from the court. That's a good system of government.

[Guest 1]

Yeah, it feels like you just live in this constant state of paranoia. It reminds me of like the death of Stalin as well. Yes, Just like apologizing to people or like not apologizing because that admits guilt.

[Ed Zitron]

Whenever you have an absolute monarchy.

[Host 2]

Right. And again, you know, Stalin, Stalinist Russia isn't technically a monarchy, but it's an absolute dictatorship.

[Ed Zitron]

They're all, all more similar than they all are different. And anytime you have one that's this absolute.

[Host 2]

It is a cult at the top.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Because everything surrounding the ruler has to be both an altered reality because there's.

[Ed Zitron]

Certain things he refuses to see and does not want to be aware of.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's pretty good. I'm glad that doesn't happen now to.

[Ed Zitron]

People like, for example, the president or billionaires. I'm glad billionaires don't also live in their own functionally isolated realities where they have no real contact with the world and no one ever argues them with them or tells them their ideas are.

[Host 2]

Bad and every moment of their lives.

[Ed Zitron]

Is them getting exactly what they want at any given moment. That obviously does not cause them the kind of brain damage that all of the kings of France got before the Revolution of 1789.

[Guest 1]

Yeah, of course.

[Host 2]

I mean, what I like totally different.

[Guest 1]

So don't have like CEOs of public companies like this.

[Ed Zitron]

No.

[Guest 1]

Or just like venture capitalists this doesn't.

[Host 2]

Happen to every rich guy, Right?

[Ed Zitron]

Every rich guy doesn't have his own.

[Host 2]

Versailles, you know, that would be crazy.

[Guest 1]

They wish. Elon Musk wishes.

[Host 2]

They'd all be insane. Anyway, let's read about the town in.

[Ed Zitron]

Texas he owns now.

[Host 2]

Anyway, yeah, with the school. Or the school.

[Ed Zitron]

Now, the one method that out of favor or distant nobles and wealthy business owners had of getting the King's attention outside of cutting through this gordianada palace etiquette, was to get a story, true or libelous, to go viral among the popular media.

[Guest 1]

No.

[Host 2]

Right. I talked posters.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, they're posters.

[Host 2]

Yeah. As time went on, it went more noble.

[Ed Zitron]

Certain nobles start hosting. Some of them host printing presses, others host basically bookstores for these Leibels, these.

[Host 2]

Books that are like unauthorized biographies of.

[Ed Zitron]

The King or his minister or his mistress.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And these are full size books, but they're used, usually they're cobbled together from day's worth of notes, like taken at.

[Host 2]

The tree of Krakow and from reports.

[Ed Zitron]

Sent on the sly by Versailles regulars. Right.

[Host 2]

People will compile these all into books that are like, you know that guy, what's his name? The dude who's written like a couple.

[Ed Zitron]

Of books about the inside of the Trump administration.

[Host 2]

Michael Wolff.

[Guest 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

He's doing Les Bels, right.

[Ed Zitron]

Where some of what syndrome's true, some of what's in them, bullshit, nobody ever really knows. But they're these books that are meant to be slandero and popular among. Among the masses. By giving you like the gory details from inside and the lives of these like, people who have all the power.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And these are illegal to be sold.

[Host 2]

In France, but certain nobles who have big properties in France will let people.

[Ed Zitron]

Sell books or newsletters there and then the police can't raid them.

[Host 2]

Right. Because that's the Duke's house or whatever, effectively.

[Ed Zitron]

So the other major thing that I.

[Host 2]

Haven'T talked about yet, that is honestly.

[Ed Zitron]

Maybe the number one way in which a lot of gossip gets out.

[Host 2]

And this is again, it's effectively like we've talked about how like the salons.

[Ed Zitron]

And stuff, these cafes where people take their notes from, you know, the morning newsmonger speeches.

[Host 2]

That's like Twitter and Facebook.

[Ed Zitron]

The TikTok of the day is song popular songs.

[Host 2]

There's a couple of.

[Ed Zitron]

There's a dozen or more different melodies that people regularly just rewrite new lyrics for.

[Host 2]

And so everybody knows all these melodies.

[Ed Zitron]

And on a daily basis, new versions of the song, you'll hear someone singing it at the market, you'll start singing it, they'll go viral among the whole city, and a lot of gossip and news gets out this way. This is again, effectively like the TikTok of its day. One explanation at the time, this is. A contemporary writer talking about this kind of weird musical culture in Paris, described it this way. A dastardly courtier puts them slanderous rumors into rhyming couplets and by means of lowly servants, has them planted in market stalls and street stands. From the markets, they are passed on to artisans, who in turn relay them back to the nobleman who had composed them and who, without losing a moment, take off for.

[Host 2]

For a meeting place in the palace.

[Ed Zitron]

Of Versailles and whisper to one another in a tone of consummate hypocrisy. Have you read them? Here they are. They're circulating among the common people of Paris. This is not just song, but a.

[Host 2]

Lot of it does come in the.

[Ed Zitron]

Form of, like, these rhyming little couplets, right? Now, in Louis XV's reign, the most popular of these songs, gossip songs, were about his mistresses, because he was the kind of king who was seen by his wife as little as possible. And by the mid-1700s, this had reached a fever pitch of unpopularity. Again, a known adulterer couldn't receive the sacrament. And when the king got seriously ill, which happened with some regularity, given how.

[Host 2]

Disease spread at Versailles, he would have.

[Ed Zitron]

To dismiss his mistress in order to take communion, right? This happened in 1744.

[Host 2]

And when you dis, it's generally accepted.

[Ed Zitron]

You dismiss your mistress, then you're good.

[Host 2]

With God again, you can go to heaven if you die, but if you dismiss her and you get better, you're.

[Ed Zitron]

Not supposed to take her back, right? At most, you're supposed to find a new mistress. But Louis XV got really attached to his mistresses, and so he takes this lady back. And that scandalizes the people and it pisses off the church.

[Host 2]

And the big part of why people.

[Ed Zitron]

Are pissed about this is that they see this as having a major impact.

[Host 2]

On public health, because this is a very fun belief. At the time, it was widely believed that.

[Ed Zitron]

That when he was made the king, the king gained the magical power that.

[Host 2]

Was known as the royal touch, right? And so a king, by touching, you could cure what was called the king's.

[Ed Zitron]

Disease, which was scrofula.

[Host 2]

Now, scrofula is a kind of tuberculosis, right? And it's a kind of thing that spreads a lot in a society where.

[Ed Zitron]

People don't wash their fucking hands. And the understanding is that when the King ascends. He gets the power to cure scrofula by touching people.

[Host 2]

But he loses it if God's not happy with him.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Host 2]

And the practical issue here is that.

[Ed Zitron]

Once a year at Easter Mass, the king would go to Paris and a huge. All of everyone with scropula would line.

[Host 2]

Up and he would touch them all, right? And obviously this presents.

[Ed Zitron]

There's some danger of the king getting sick from this, right?

[Host 2]

But this also provides him with a.

[Ed Zitron]

Degree of safety because every year a huge number of like the poor people in Paris make direct contact with the.

[Host 2]

King in a way where they see him as saving them. Can you think of how that might.

[Ed Zitron]

Protect a king from the mob?

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Guest 1]

Regardless of whether they're actually here healed of their scrofula dragon, whatever it is.

[Ed Zitron]

That matters less than everyone sees. The king is a part of our public health system, right?

[Host 2]

And also he is coming out and.

[Ed Zitron]

He helps me directly.

[Host 2]

I'm not gonna murder the king, you know, why would I do that? Right? But Louis the 15th loses this power.

[Ed Zitron]

And so he stops going to these Easter masses and touching people. And it cuts off a very important.

[Host 2]

Connection between the crowned line and the.

[Ed Zitron]

Masses in Paris, right? This is going to contribute to revolutionary conditions.

[Host 2]

Again, all these are just like pieces.

[Ed Zitron]

Of why this happens. But the fact that the king is.

[Host 2]

Is under Louis xv, what contact the.

[Ed Zitron]

King, you know, Louis XIV already had.

[Host 2]

Reduced significantly by moving out of Paris.

[Ed Zitron]

The king's contact with regular people.

[Host 2]

Louis XV cuts off one of the.

[Ed Zitron]

Last vestiges of that because he won't stop fucking his mistresses and he gets cancelled by the Church. Another issue is that the Church threatens to take away because he won't stop fucking his mistresses. The Church threatens to take away the Jubilee in 1750 every 25 years. The church would forgive everyone in Francis sins, right?

[Host 2]

You don't have to pay, you don't have to. It's like a big deal, right? And the king, they don't ultimately go through with this.

[Ed Zitron]

The Church, the king is able to lean on them, but for a long time everyone thinks that the king has cost them the Jubilee because he can't.

[Host 2]

Keep his dick in his pants. And that makes them very angry, Right?

[Guest 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

Like. Like this isn't just them being judgmental.

[Ed Zitron]

They are seeing significant public health costs.

[Host 2]

That's how they're going to hell.

[Ed Zitron]

They might.

[Host 2]

People are going to go to hell over here, man. What the fuck?

[Ed Zitron]

And the popular media goes nuts about this rumor, as Robert Darnton writes. One novelist published a letter from a correspondent who vilified Louis for depriving his people of the Jubilee. It is monstrous that all of France should be deprived of it because the King, by his own fault, is not in a state to receive this grace. The general resentment was. Was expressed by some of the crudest poems. Louis the badly loved. Make your Jubilee give up your whore, Madame le Pompadour, and give us bread.

[Host 2]

Oh, this is one of those songs, right? It sounds better in the original French, but not when I say it.

[Guest 1]

Yeah, no, you don't have the French.

[Host 2]

I don't have the French gene.

[Guest 1]

No.

[Host 2]

But, yeah, this is, like, popular songs, honestly. Like, yeah, I could describe it as TikTok.

[Ed Zitron]

You might even describe it as, like, punk Rock and the AP 80s, right? These, like, songs people are singing about criticizing power.

[Host 2]

It is very cool.

[Guest 1]

It's actually very cool that there's like this weird, like, cottage journalism industry and this weird, like, this track shit where.

[Host 2]

Yeah, this is.

[Ed Zitron]

It is interesting.

[Host 2]

Like, you can. You can almost look at this as.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, a common point of origin for, like, journalism.

[Host 2]

Hip hop, punk rock and TikTok. Right. This is why fucking the king in Versailles, not being able to keep his.

[Ed Zitron]

Dick in his pants, you know?

[Guest 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

So what we see throughout Louis XV's reign is a king whose decisions, and some of his decisions are good, constantly drive a wedge between him and everyone outside of Versailles. Because of the media ecosystem, which at this point has grown to be entirely, like, predicated on critiquing the king and his nobles.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

And to everyone's surprise, what's happened here is without anyone meaning for this to.

[Ed Zitron]

Evolve this way, this emergent media ecosystem has created a check on the king's absolute power. As a Parisian comedian, Nicholas Chamfer said, france is, quote, an absolute monarchy tempered by songs.

[Guest 1]

That kind of really. That is actually. That is actually very fucking cool. I love that.

[Host 2]

That's fucking awesome. Yeah.

[Guest 1]

And the only thing controlling Animal House.

[Host 2]

Over here is people making up mean songs about him.

[Guest 1]

Like, that's what. The fact that he was too horny. Well, I guess he was all right. He stayed at the same level of horny.

[Host 2]

Kendrick's, like, obliquely shit talking Trump through.

[Ed Zitron]

His presentation at the Super Bowl.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Like, the. It's. In some ways, it hasn't changed. It's just always been understood that if.

[Ed Zitron]

You are good enough at music, no.

[Host 2]

Dictator will be brave enough to kill you. Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

This is why Billy Joel was allowed.

[Host 2]

To go to the ussr, you know, the power of the piano man and.

[Guest 1]

Why Steven Seagal is fine as well.

[Ed Zitron]

Is right. Is right.

[Host 2]

Is very safe everywhere. Greatest musician, great music. When he went to War, Louis XV.

[Ed Zitron]

In 1740, alongside the Austrians, against an alliance of British people, Hessians, Hanoverians and the hated Dutch. There was a vicious battle near the village of Loft. In real terms, it was a tactical victory for France.

[Host 2]

They take the village, but either a.

[Ed Zitron]

Strategic defeat or at best a draw. Because they lose so many men taking this town, they can't continue the offensive that they had intended in support of the Austrians. That said, they do take the town. So the King declares it a victory.

[Host 2]

But the newspapers, and again, all of.

[Ed Zitron]

The newspapers that get into France are.

[Host 2]

Printed in Amsterdam who are fighting against the King. The King sends back his messengers to.

[Ed Zitron]

Declare victory in Paris. The newspapers that arrive at the same.

[Host 2]

Time all say France lost the battle. Right.

[Ed Zitron]

Police spies inform the government.

[Host 2]

Hey, most of the media says we actually lost this. And it's kind of generating unrest.

[Ed Zitron]

An effort gets made to distribute counter propaganda. But it's like when the government tries to make tiktoks. Right?

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Nobody like, they, like the police aren't good at making songs people want to sing.

[Guest 1]

You know, I, I wonder what the police songs were like.

[Host 2]

I thought they must have sucked ass. They.

[Guest 1]

They did not slap.

[Ed Zitron]

It was literally the police.

[Host 2]

This is, this is not great. This is where Sting gets his start.

[Guest 1]

Very horny guy as well.

[Host 2]

So very horny man as well. He would have tantric sex. So. But now by this point, again, this.

[Ed Zitron]

This modern ecosystem had largely.

[Host 2]

A lot of it had developed as a way to keep abreast with palace gossip. But at this point it pivots, you know, and it pivots to. This is almost the first time where.

[Ed Zitron]

You see something like a modern ecosystem obsessing over a major world war in media republic.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

In the same way people did about, like the Gulf War or, you know.

[Ed Zitron]

More recently, the expanded.

[Guest 1]

And judging the government for it as well.

[Ed Zitron]

And judging the government for it. The government has.

[Host 2]

This is a very rare thing and it's really kind of.

[Ed Zitron]

I don't know if it's the first.

[Host 2]

Time this has happened, but I don't.

[Ed Zitron]

Know that it's ever happened before on this scale where the absolute monarchy completely loses control of the information coming out of a conflict on foreign soil.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

That's a big deal.

[Ed Zitron]

And this war, the war of Austrian succession, it's one of a number of wars that some historians will argue should be counted as the first real world war.

[Host 2]

I don't care to get into that.

[Ed Zitron]

Argument, but this is a massive conflict.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Host 2]

Right. And the fact that the government of.

[Ed Zitron]

France has completely lost control due to the independent media is incredibly noteworthy.

[Host 2]

I would want to quote again from that book.

[Ed Zitron]

Reports of the overseas warfare appeared in the gazettes and the cafe sophisticates discussed them. But most Parisians, if they followed foreign affairs at all, concentrated on the fighting nearby in the Low Countries where Marshal de Sac scored his victories. They were appalled, therefore, as soon as they learned about the preliminaries to the peace, to discover that Louis the 15th had agreed to return everything France had won at such expense and size, suffering in exchange, he received virtually nothing. He got back Louisburg, a fortress on the Cape Breton island, while he surrendered Madras, a greater prize to the British. To ordinary Parisians with an uncertain grasp of geography, the global readjustment in the balance of power, insofar as they were aware of it, mattered less than the sacrifice of the fortresses in Flanders. Most Parisians, moreover, experienced the war as hardship inflicted on their daily lives in the form of an increased taxes, scarcer goods and higher prices. The Dixime, a special tax levied since 1741 to support the war, fell on virtually all revenue. Although the clergy negotiated an exemption, salaries were exempt, so laborers did not suffer directly. But the dixime was a bitter blow to rentiers, merchants, artisans and shopkeepers.

[Host 2]

So there's both this thing that in an earlier era, the King would have.

[Ed Zitron]

Been able to spin as, we've got a peace. We forced a peace on them after all these victories.

[Host 2]

And that's kind of all that would have gotten out.

[Ed Zitron]

Instead there's all this reporting on everything that France is giving up in the.

[Host 2]

Peace, because the Dutch have a vested.

[Ed Zitron]

Interest in that information getting out to the people of France, because.

[Guest 1]

And it's being printed over there too.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes, and it's being printed over there too.

[Host 2]

And so people, interesting people, gain a.

[Ed Zitron]

Real understanding of the fact that, oh, no, no, we're being lied to about.

[Host 2]

This war that has fucked up my life. Life. You know, I'm paying a lot more in taxes because of this. And we just gave everything up. What?

[Ed Zitron]

My son died.

[Guest 1]

You know, it's two very different ecosystem media ecosystems as well, because you've got the internal palace intrigue, quite literally.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

Which is controlling the nobles with this weird system of rules.

[Host 2]

Totalitarian.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

And then. But they show no interest for actually controlling the real problem. Like the real, like the independent media that's fucking their asses up.

[Host 2]

No, because like the King is.

[Ed Zitron]

He's monitoring everyone's mail.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

When they send out gossip they have to be very secret about it. People get punished for this.

[Host 2]

So inside the palace, it's as close to a totalitarian state as it can be. And then in Paris, it's like a.

[Ed Zitron]

Very free media environment. Even though this is all technically illegal, everything is getting out.

[Guest 1]

Yeah. It's probably because there's so much shit they're dealing with in Versailles that they can't control it at this point.

[Host 2]

Well, yeah, and they don't.

[Ed Zitron]

They're not really as aware because they have no connection to Paris, really. Right.

[Host 2]

Most of the nobility, and certainly not the King. So the Dixime pisses off a lot.

[Ed Zitron]

Of people in the bourgeoisie. There's another tax that just everyone has.

[Host 2]

To pay, which is kind of Louis xv.

[Ed Zitron]

The nobles were subject to it too.

[Host 2]

So you could see it as him.

[Ed Zitron]

Trying to modernize and make things fairer, but it just creates more anger and unrest because it's just another tax.

[Host 2]

He also puts through tariffs on consumer goods.

[Ed Zitron]

Prices for the necessities of life start to surge to an unsustainable level.

[Host 2]

Level.

[Ed Zitron]

There are bread riots.

[Host 2]

You know, people are starving.

[Ed Zitron]

In order to try and mitigate this, when the war finally ends, the King orders two days of celebration and the Crown provides a feast, like food and wine, all you can eat for two days for the little people of Paris.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

So there's a massive party. And this is the kind of thing.

[Host 2]

In the past that would have got.

[Ed Zitron]

Everybody back to being fans of the King.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

But people know everything that went on behind the scenes.

[Host 2]

And so for the first time, when the King goes through Paris on, like, his victory march, people don't.

[Ed Zitron]

During this massive party where they're all getting free food and booze, no one shouts, viva le roi. Nobody shouts like, long live the King. Right, Right.

[Host 2]

Like. Like, it's like commoners refuse to do this.

[Ed Zitron]

And popular gossip notes that women in the market start arguing, like, making fun of each other by saying, you are.

[Host 2]

As stupid as the peace. Right. Like, it's become this.

[Guest 1]

That's brutal.

[Host 2]

It's a calamity for the.

[Ed Zitron]

For the Crown. A dozen people are also crushed to death during a fireworks display due to a bottleneck in the streets. And this is reported on Massively.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

People talk about this all the.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, constantly.

[Host 2]

It is, like, a massive topic of.

[Ed Zitron]

Discussion in the media. And every mistake, every attendant death, and all of the suffering of the masses.

[Host 2]

Every bad thing that happened, happens, adds.

[Ed Zitron]

To the crush of hostile papers, books and songs attacking the regime. And rather than trying to deal with any of this or Trying to directly engage with the people. Louis the 15th largely responds to in a hostile public by drawing inwards and retreating to Versailles. After the failed celebrations of 1748, the king avoids the capital in 1749 and.

[Host 2]

1750, he doesn't go there at all.

[Ed Zitron]

Rumors spread through songs, through small papers and newsmongers that he fears sparking a riot.

[Host 2]

And so people really start talking for the first time.

[Ed Zitron]

Is the King scared of the mob?

[Host 2]

Do we maybe, as a group of angry people in Paris, have power to threaten the monarchy? This is when people really start talking about that. You know, this is an important step on the road to 1789.

[Guest 1]

Right?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah. In mid 17. Yeah.

[Guest 1]

They just lost control of everything. They didn't really. Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

They're starting to again. They get another 40 years before this all falls apart. But these are important.

[Guest 1]

The idea of this marinating isn't brilliant.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Ed Zitron]

It takes a while for this to marinate.

[Host 2]

And this is part of, like, what leads things to collapse.

[Ed Zitron]

In mid-1749, a major government minister is brought down by a song.

[Host 2]

The victim is Comte Did Maur, who.

[Ed Zitron]

Was the King's most powerful minister. He's a close friend to the king.

[Host 2]

And he is like his.

[Ed Zitron]

Basically his number one advisor.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

And one day the king retires.

[Host 2]

You know, he doesn't always like to.

[Ed Zitron]

Be surrounded by the crowd, so he.

[Host 2]

Goes to his royal bedchambers with his.

[Ed Zitron]

Mistress, Madame de Pompadour, and her cousin, Madame d'estrade and the Comte de Maurepas.

[Host 2]

And I think they're all kind of.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

Like.

[Ed Zitron]

I see.

[Host 2]

So. Yeah. Or at least they're both at the same time.

[Ed Zitron]

Over the course of the night, Madame Pompadour hands out white hyacinths as gifts. And this private moment hits the streets of Paris days later, set to the tune of a popular love song. By your noble and free manner, Iris, you enchant our hearts on our path. You strew flowers, but they are white flowers. That doesn't seem super scandalous.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Host 2]

It is, though, because the word for.

[Ed Zitron]

Flower is very similar to a colloquial term for vaginal discharge.

[Host 2]

And what this song is saying is.

[Ed Zitron]

That the king's mistress spread VD in this private moment in the royal chambers.

[Host 2]

Right. She got. That's what the white flowers are like.

[Ed Zitron]

White vaginal discharge.

[Host 2]

Right. It's like she had an STD and.

[Ed Zitron]

She spread it to the king in Mauropos.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

That's kind of what the song is alleging.

[Host 2]

I don't think that's actually what happened. Because that's what the song is like.

[Guest 1]

Who cares? It got through.

[Host 2]

Well, and here's the big thing.

[Ed Zitron]

There are four people in the room when this happens, Right?

[Guest 1]

That was what I was thinking. It's like, who leaked this?

[Host 2]

Probably shouldn't say leak.

[Ed Zitron]

It's Maurepas, right? It's the Comte de Maurepas.

[Host 2]

Because obviously the king's mistress isn't gonna leak this.

[Ed Zitron]

Her cousin's unlikely to.

[Host 2]

Sure shit, not the king. Right? And what makes this even more obvious.

[Ed Zitron]

Is that Mauropos is a famous and beloved popular songwriter.

[Host 2]

And he had for years used music.

[Ed Zitron]

To launder gossip and attacks on his enemies at Versailles into Paris.

[Host 2]

And in fact, a lot of the. A lot of what we have from.

[Ed Zitron]

This period, from this aspect of culture.

[Host 2]

These, like, popular political, like. Like slander songs are ones that Mauropas.

[Ed Zitron]

Wrote 45 volumes of. His lyrics survive to this day.

[Guest 1]

Jesus Christ.

[Host 2]

So this guy was prolific, right? Again, yeah. And so when this thing that four.

[Ed Zitron]

People are for leaks out in song form, everyone immediately knows, like, this has to be you, right? Mauropos, he had tried to spread this verse to damage the king's mistress because he was closer to the king Queen, right?

[Host 2]

His whole thing had been, I want to, like, separate her from the king. But this blows up because he's very.

[Ed Zitron]

Sloppy about how he does it. And he tries to blame the whole debacle on Marshal Richelieu, who's one of his rivals. But Richelieu figures out what's going on and tells the king. As Darnton writes, this version of Mauripos fall owed a great deal to the rumor mill of the Court and the baroque character of politics in Versailles. Parisians, who had little contact with that alien world could not be certain about what lay behind Maurepas fox. But they knew that songs precipitated it and that the result was a realignment of power.

[Host 2]

And so, kind of by this period, you know, 1749, you've got.

[Ed Zitron]

The king has gotten scared out of.

[Host 2]

Paris by the mob.

[Ed Zitron]

And now people have realized that, like, these songs, these, like, popular. This popular media has the ability to uproot and force government ministers out of their office, right?

[Host 2]

In addition to this, you've created this permanent.

[Ed Zitron]

Because of how negative a lot of.

[Host 2]

This media is, this really permanent breach.

[Ed Zitron]

Between the crown and the people. In 1751, the kings attempts a return to Paris. He goes to a mass at Notre Dame, and as he rides in, the crowd around him maintains near total silence. An experience so upsetting that Louis XV has A road built so he can avoid Paris in the future when traveling to his various branches, properties. And by this point, 1751, the rot.

[Host 2]

That'S going to lead to the revolution is probably terminal.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Host 2]

There's almost certainly no.

[Ed Zitron]

Because this system that the next king.

[Host 2]

Is going to come up in, that is going to continue governing is like.

[Ed Zitron]

It can't do anything but make this system worse. By its nature, it feeds this media ecosystem that is so toxic to the crown. By its nature.

[Host 2]

Nature, it creates a ruling class who.

[Ed Zitron]

Has no contact or understanding with regular people and who will constantly fuck them over in order to pay and afford.

[Host 2]

Keeping their fancy party house going.

[Ed Zitron]

Right.

[Host 2]

All of this has happened by 1751. No, it's not.

[Guest 1]

And people know everything about it.

[Ed Zitron]

And they know everything constantly. Yes.

[Guest 1]

And what they know about it is just told in the most scandalous, ridiculous way of.

[Host 2]

It's. Yeah, yeah. A lot of.

[Guest 1]

It's also cold and catchy songs.

[Host 2]

It's cold and catchy songs.

[Ed Zitron]

They're going to be catchy songs about, like, Marie Antoinette being a spy for her home in Austria.

[Host 2]

And she's not. There's a lot of valid critiques of.

[Ed Zitron]

Marie Antoinette, but she, like, legitimately did not do any of the things her family wanted her to do in terms of, like, influencing France to be pro Austria. Like, they were constantly pissed at her, but it didn't matter in terms of.

[Host 2]

Her unpopularity because the mob was convinced.

[Ed Zitron]

And the popular media was convinced that she was effectively a spy.

[Guest 2]

Right, good.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Guest 1]

Well, probably good for this one, but not good for now when similar things happen.

[Host 2]

Yeah, you know, we'll see. Again, this all moved.

[Ed Zitron]

The media moved pretty fast in Paris of this day, but not as fast as it works today.

[Host 2]

And I guess if I have a hopeful thing in terms of, you know, because if we are modern day people attempting to make an aristocracy or, you know, honestly trying to make a monarchy.

[Ed Zitron]

With themselves as the.

[Host 2]

That's what Curtis Yarvin and the like want.

[Ed Zitron]

They want to be nobles in this.

[Host 2]

New hereditary order under CEO kings.

[Ed Zitron]

And things move faster now.

[Host 2]

And the same dynamics that caused everything to fall apart for the people running.

[Ed Zitron]

Versailles are human dynamics.

[Host 2]

And these people, I think, are convinced that they can force that out of.

[Ed Zitron]

Us by taking control of social media.

[Host 2]

You know, by breeding it out of people or whatever. I don't think that they can. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Guest 1]

And in fact, the very dynamics discussed in these episodes are kind of suggesting why they can't, because people will just eventually go, what the fuck?

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

There's More to talk about.

[Host 2]

We may do, you know, soon episodes on, you know, kind of the end of this process.

[Ed Zitron]

And what happens with Marie Antoinette and.

[Host 2]

Her husband Louis XVI is also interesting. They're just not really bastards in the.

[Ed Zitron]

Same way that Louis XV and 14th are.

[Host 2]

Right? Right. Like, they make a lot of mistakes.

[Ed Zitron]

And they do do some.

[Host 2]

Like, they do do bad things.

[Ed Zitron]

Right. Like every king and queen does.

[Host 2]

But these guys are why the system had pissed people off so much that.

[Ed Zitron]

Those two needed to lose their heads.

[Guest 2]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

The terror is largely fueled by the shit that hap. By the shit that Louis I creates.

[Host 2]

At Versailles and that Louis XV perpetuates.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Host 2]

Like, that's. All of that anger gets built up as a result of that period of time. And, you know, that's cool. Yeah.

[Guest 1]

Seems like it ended well for everyone involved.

[Host 2]

It doesn't.

[Ed Zitron]

It ends great for everyone.

[Guest 1]

Louis xiv. How do you cop it? Just his ass.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, Louis xiv. No, he gets a smart.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay, yeah, he gets smallpox.

[Ed Zitron]

He has to send away his mistress.

[Host 1]

But he's like, in his 70s. No.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

He also reigns a crazy long time.

[Host 2]

He reigns for decades.

[Ed Zitron]

Again, this whole period, like, is like, there's more than a century of Versailles, even though there's only, like three kings.

[Guest 2]

Right?

[Ed Zitron]

So it lasts a while.

[Host 2]

It just isn't, you know, by. I think by probably like 1749-1751, somewhere around then. I think the revolution was inevitable. There was probably no way just functionally.

[Ed Zitron]

Because I don't think Versailles.

[Host 2]

I think Versailles, among other things, the fact that it was so ossified by.

[Ed Zitron]

This point, it was incapable of changing.

[Guest 1]

Right.

[Ed Zitron]

How do you peel any of that back form things?

[Host 2]

You're spending all your time worrying about whose whole holding your shirt as the kids. You have very little time to fix the way the government works.

[Guest 1]

Right?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah. The napkin situation is really bogging you down by this point.

[Guest 1]

And again, all of this was around how the government was run, too.

[Host 2]

Yeah, Very good. Exactly.

[Guest 1]

Jesus.

[Host 2]

Yep, it's great.

[Guest 1]

Jesus Christ. Three times on this show now, and every time you find a new freak or series of freaks, the freak collection.

[Host 2]

Because Zoo of Freaks, that's.

[Guest 1]

That's the pasta show.

[Host 2]

That's the podcast.

[Host 1]

Oh, damn, Ed, you have a podcast?

[Guest 1]

I do.

[Host 2]

It's.

[Guest 1]

It's called Better Offline. Go to better offline.com. email me@easy betteroffline.com if you hate me or love me. Ideally the latter. And if you want to set up a bizarre series of rules that I will make you live by, go to our Reddit, which is r better offline. We're already working on a Versailles like system than that.

[Ed Zitron]

Yep.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah. So check that out. You know, when finally, when he. When he lives.

[Ed Zitron]

When.

[Host 2]

When Ed lives completely surrounded by the nobility of France, that's when podcasting will finally reach its apex.

[Guest 1]

Cannot wait.

[Host 1]

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, YouTube.com behindthebastards.

[Nancy Grace]

Need the latest crime news fast. Whether it's the latest developments in a high profile case or urgent alerts about missing persons, Crime Alert Hourly Update delivers the news you need to know as it happens.

[Reporter]

I'm Nancy Grace and with our team of investigative reporters and experts, we bring you the top crime headlines you need to know every hour on the hour.

[Nancy Grace]

Listen to Crime Alert Hourly Update on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.