Part Two: Laetrile: The Fake Cancer Cure That Birthed The Right-Wing Medical Grifting Industry

Summary

Behind the Bastards: Part Two – Laetrile: The Fake Cancer Cure That Birthed The Right-Wing Medical Grifting Industry

Release Date: July 24, 2025
Host: Robert Evans
Co-Host: Miles Gray
Produced by: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

---

1. Introduction to Laetrile and Its Origins

In this gripping continuation of the series, Robert Evans and Miles Gray delve into the controversial history of Laetrile, a substance promoted as a miraculous cancer cure. Laetrile, also known as amygdalin or vitamin B17, became a focal point for both medical fraud and the burgeoning right-wing skepticism of government-regulated medicine.

2. The Krebs Family and Early Promotion of Laetrile

The narrative begins with the Krebs family, particularly Ernest Krebs Jr., who spearheaded the promotion of Laetrile. Robert discusses how, despite FDA bans, Krebs Jr. ingeniously circumvented regulations by selling Laetrile through intermediaries like Andrew McNaughton, a Canadian gun runner.

Robert Evans [07:05]: "The field of cancer chemotherapy is a law unto itself. This jungle offers the greatest opportunity anywhere in commerce at this moment."

This strategic maneuvering marked the beginning of Laetrile’s persistence in the market, despite mounting evidence against its efficacy.

3. Government Crackdown and Resistance

In the early 1960s, the California Cancer Advisory Council launched investigations into Laetrile after receiving alarming reports. The council uncovered that Krebs Jr. was aggressively marketing an unproven and dangerous substance without any legitimate clinical backing.

Miles Gray [08:52]: "What are you doing? Maybe they were into that shit."

Despite regulatory actions, Krebs Jr. continued his operations, leading to multiple convictions for contempt due to his refusal to cease Laetrile sales. However, the penalties were minimal, reflecting the leniency often afforded to such medical fraudsters.

4. Rise of Patient Activism: Cecile Hoffman

Introducing Cecile Hoffman, a breast cancer survivor whose tragic outcome epitomized the perils of alternative treatments. After suffering from metastatic cancer, Hoffman became a pivotal figure by founding the International Association of Cancer Victims and Friends. Her advocacy for Laetrile not only galvanized patient support but also laid the groundwork for organized resistance against medical authorities.

Robert Evans [22:00]: "Cecile Hoffman is an ur figure in the annals of patient alternative medicine advocates."

Hoffman’s unwavering belief in Laetrile, despite its lethality, highlighted the emotional and psychological factors fueling the anti-establishment medical movement.

5. Link to Far-Right Politics: John Birch Society

The storyline takes a darker turn as Laetrile proponents align with the far-right John Birch Society. Dr. John A. Richardson, a member of this group, played a crucial role in transforming Laetrile advocacy into a political crusade against federal regulation.

Robert Evans [40:54]: "Crucial to the third stage of Littrill. Now, I want to quote from an article called Lesson in Cancer Quackery for the Cancer Journal."

Robert explains how Richardson and others used their political influence to frame Laetrile promotion as a fight for "freedom of choice," intertwining medical misinformation with conservative ideology.

6. State-Level Legalization Efforts

By exploiting state legislatures, Laetrile advocates successfully pushed for the legalization of Laetrile in numerous states during the late 1970s. This strategic shift allowed continued distribution and bolstered the legitimacy of alternative medical treatments.

Robert Evans [58:23]: "So basically you have this Food and Drug act. It gets stronger and stronger for a while. It really makes some massive changes, saves a ton of lives. And then the right wing, when they lose in court against it at the federal level, figures out, well, let's just cut the ground out from underneath it."

This maneuvering not only perpetuated the use of ineffective treatments but also set a precedent for future bypasses of federal medical regulations.

7. Tragic Consequences and Public Perception

The podcast recounts several tragic instances where Laetrile usage led to fatal cyanide poisoning, including the deaths of young patients like Elizabeth Hankin and Steve McQueen. These stories underscore the lethal consequences of unregulated medical treatments.

Robert Evans [62:42]: "Oh, man. He was super chill, thanks to Latrill. You know, he would have died a much worse death if it weren't for Latrill."

Despite these fatalities, Laetrile advocates continued to promote the substance, often downplaying its dangers and emphasizing anecdotal success stories over scientific evidence.

8. Legacy and Impact on Modern Medical Skepticism

The culmination of Laetrile’s history illustrates how medical misinformation can evolve into a politically charged movement. The establishment of Laetrile advocacy as a right-wing issue laid the foundation for contemporary skepticism towards medical authorities and regulatory bodies.

Robert Evans [49:57]: "All of Joe Rogan's business, you know, Alex Jones, this is the groundwork for why all of that is the case."

This historical account reveals the enduring impact of early medical grifting on today’s anti-establishment sentiments, highlighting the interplay between misinformation, political ideology, and public distrust.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Robert Evans [07:05]: "The field of cancer chemotherapy is a law unto itself. This jungle offers the greatest opportunity anywhere in commerce at this moment."

• Miles Gray [08:52]: "What are you doing? Maybe they were into that shit."

• Robert Evans [22:00]: "Cecile Hoffman is an ur figure in the annals of patient alternative medicine advocates."

• Robert Evans [40:54]: "Crucial to the third stage of Littrill."

• Robert Evans [58:23]: "So basically you have this Food and Drug act. It gets stronger and stronger for a while."

• Robert Evans [62:42]: "Oh, man. He was super chill, thanks to Latrill."

• Robert Evans [49:57]: "All of Joe Rogan's business, you know, Alex Jones, this is the groundwork for why all of that is the case."

---

Conclusion

"Behind the Bastards, Part Two: Laetrile" meticulously unpacks the sinister journey of a fraudulent cancer cure and its profound influence on the intersection of medicine and right-wing politics. Through the lens of the Krebs family's deceit, patient advocacy gone awry, and the strategic politicization of medical misinformation, Robert Evans and Miles Gray present a cautionary tale about the dangers of unchecked medical grifting and its lasting legacy on public trust in healthcare systems.

This episode serves as a stark reminder of how destructive narratives can take root when fueled by desperation, misinformation, and political agendas, ultimately shaping contemporary challenges in combating medical fraud and promoting scientific integrity.

Transcript

[Robert Evans]

Call Zone Media. Whoa. Welcome back. It's bastards pod behind Cai. I'm Robert. This is a podcast about bad people. It's part two of our episodes about Latrill, the medicine that invented the weird right wing fake medicine industrial complex that is now helping to run our government. So, you know, we're all learning that story today. And with me to continue to be unhappy, Miles Gray.

[Miles Gray]

Hey, hey, hey, how you doing? Thanks for having me back.

[Robert Evans]

Thanks for coming back, Miles. I know we ended on a cliffhanger last time because obviously, you know, they've been banned now.

[Miles Gray]

Latrill has been defeated.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, Latrill has been defeated forever. Well, no, what was defeated was the Krebs being able to produce or sell Latrill. Right. Oh, unfortunately, somehow Littrill has returned in part two. This is an iHeart podcast.

[Ad]

Life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Anabe, you never have to stress about Messes again. @washablesofas.com Discover Anibe Sofas, the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out. Starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions May apply.

Join iHeartRadio and Sarah Spain in celebrating the one year anniversary of iHeart Women's Sports. With powerful interviews and insider analysis, our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's Sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows and built a community united by passion.

Podcasts that amplify the voices of women women in sports.

Thank you for supporting iHeart women's sports and our founding sponsors, E L F Beauty, Capital One and Novartis.

Just open the free iHeart app and.

Search iHeart Women's Sports to listen.

Now, every case that is a cold.

[Miles Gray]

Case that has DNA right now in.

[Robert Evans]

The backlog will be identified in our.

[Ad]

Lifetime on the new podcast, America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell.

[Robert Evans]

And the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the.

[Ad]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Lithgow]

Hello, I'm John Lithgow.

[Robert Evans]

We choose to go to the moon.

[John Lithgow]

I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast.

[Robert Evans]

That's One small step for man about.

[John Lithgow]

Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.

[Miles Gray]

You're a great pilot, Buzz.

[John Lithgow]

That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't. Buzz, starring me, John Lithgow, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

So as I ended the last episode saying, well, yeah, no, the FDA charged Krebs, and the John Beard Memorial foundation banned them from selling Latrill or making it. But Krebs reached out to his physician friends and they started a letter writing campaign. They got a bunch of their patients writing in to be like, I need this medicine. I need it. Oh, my God, you can't know how much it's helped me and the judge, you know, letter writing campaigns. This is still kind of new as a concept that you would do this especially to a judge. And this judge suddenly receives hundreds of letters like he's never gotten before and is like, oh, God, I guess I better. I need to. I guess I better give them some way to keep getting this stuff, right? So he tells the Krebs, look, you can sell off the remaining stockpile that you have, but you gotta sell it to this unrelated guy, McNaughton, who definitely isn't your friend and in business with you, right? This Canadian gun runner, you gotta sell your stuff to him. He'll take care of it. He'll make sure it gets to the right people. So that 1961 settlement marks kind of the end of the first era, or it's the beginning of the end for the first era of the Krebs family's anti cancer medications, Right? And in the early days, the goal had been, we're gonna make a scientific case. The new medicine will get acceptance from professional doctors, right? And by kind of the 60s, it's starting to become clear throughout the decade, this isn't going to be the way forward in the future. So people start, you know, over in California, the Cancer Advisory Council has begun developed a serious interest in Latrill, which they had first learned about after being sent questions from journalists around the country about the alleged miracle cancer cure that California doctors were using. One of Krebs physician customers had talked to a reporter and given them a list of his patients saying, hey, just ask these people how well the treatment worked. Because, boy howdy, HIPAA laws were not. Did not exist back then.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, you need names and numbers.

[Robert Evans]

He's just like, no, here's all my patients and what they've been given.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, yeah, just go right through them. Yep, yep.

[Robert Evans]

Here's their home addresses. I don't give a shit.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Betty Boop was one of my. One of my best patients, actually. Yeah, you should definitely call her.

[Robert Evans]

So brief investigation by the California Cancer Advisory Council made it clear to them that Ernest Krebs Jr. Was actively working to sell more and more physicians in more states on this investigational drug. But even though this was an investigational drug, no one seemed to be publishing any research about it. Right. Where are the investigations? It's just being used on people and nobody's documenting shit. They also become aware that he's selling littril overseas even after the injunction against selling it. But the FDA can't stop him from doing stuff overseas. Right. Like the fact that there's like a British subsidiary selling stuff. They can't really get involved with it.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, yeah. That's a whole other thing. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Good luck. Now. During this period of time, Dr. Krebs Junior. Fake. Dr. Krebs Junior is writing letters to pharmaceutical entrepreneurs like this quote, the field of cancer chemotherapy is a law to itself. This jungle offers the greatest opportunity anywhere in commerce at this moment. But there are snakes in every bush. I believe it's best to push hard, sell. Don't be backward about disaffecting a few and establish the trill right from the start as something precious that not even hospitals get for nothing. So in his private writing, he's like, look, we got to make this stuff expensive. You got to charge out the ass for it, right? Like, this is precious stuff. We won't even sell it to the dying for free. You know, like that is the private Dr. Krebs Jr.

[Miles Gray]

Right, right, right. Exactly. He's like, oh, my God, we got a winner.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. It's also the fact that he says cancer chemotherapy is a law unto himself. He is calling later a kind of chemotherapy, right? Because that is chemo is new and exciting at this point in like the late 50s, early 60s. The idea that, like, well, finally there's something that works, right? So he is trying to tell people this is the same thing, right? It's just, you know, a better kind of chemo that's Less harsh on your body, you know, like. But that's basically how they're arguing this works.

[Miles Gray]

It's fucking way better. Chemo basically is what I call it.

[Robert Evans]

It's super chemo, pretty much.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So from 1960-62, the Cancer Advisory Council sent 10 doctors and five research scientists to the task of investigating latril. This included evaluating more than 100 case studies by different Littrill advocates. Despite this mountain of so called proof, the council found no compelling evidence that Littrell had helped anyone fight cancer. In fact, although Krebs Jr. Constantly claimed to have documented dozens of cured patients, he would repeatedly fail to furnish this information when asked. So the California Medical association had to go digging. And I want to quote from an article on the website Patientworthy here. The association pressed Krebs Jr. For his clinical data and proof of controlled studies. Krebs Jr. Claimed he had performed the studies, but destroyed any related files while conducting background checks on his former patients. The CMA found that 19 of the 44 patients Krebs Jr. Had referred them to had died within two years of receiving their treatment. Some even seemed to be exhibiting symptoms of cyanide poisoning. The agency quickly condemned Latrill, as did the California State Department of Public Health. So when they're finally able to get some data where he's like, yeah, here's 44 people who like, came to my clinic. They're like, fucking half these people are dead. And it looks like a lot of them died from cyanide poisoning.

[Miles Gray]

What are you doing? Maybe they were into that shit. I don't know. Maybe ask them what they were doing with that shit.

[Robert Evans]

Have you considered maybe it was recreational cyanide poisoning? You know? Yeah.

[Miles Gray]

You know, people are fucking weird with that shit.

[Robert Evans]

People love cyanide. Oh my God. You walk into a preschool and give the kids a big vial of cyanide. They'll have a good time with it.

[Miles Gray]

They love it. All the rock stars, they're doing it, everyone's into it.

[Robert Evans]

Everyone's doing cyanide. The nied. Yeah, yeah, the nide. So after further work, including running tests on Littril and a new synthetic Littril that Krebs Jr. Had invented, the council determined the substance had no value for treating, minimizing the symptoms of, or outright curing cancer. This prompted the state to regulate Littril for the first time. In 1965, a new regulation was issued in California that banned latril and all substantially similar agents from being sold as a cancer treatment. So Krebs Sr. And his boy took this in stride. They kept moving Latrell on the side, of course, but they had to pretend to stay on the straight and narrow now that the man was watching them. Even so, they repeatedly wound up in court. Krebs Jr. Was actually convicted in 1965 over a contempt charge because he refused to stop selling Latrill. In 1966, he was convicted again for contempt again because he was caught shipping latrill in violation of the injunction. His story at this point becomes one we've seen all too often. A rich con man breaks the law repeatedly, but only gets a slap on the wrist each time. He was sentenced to a year in prison and then the sentence was immediately suspended. So he kept doing it and he brought in his brother Byron, the osteopath, to help sell and market the stuff. In 1974, Byron and Krebs Jr. Are both charged and both pled guilty to violating the Californian law yet again. They were given six month suspended sentences. The only one who actually suffered a real penalty was Byron, who had an actual osteopath license and had it revoked for incompetence.

[Miles Gray]

It was the only one who saw consequences was Byron because they thought he was black. When they saw that name, they thought.

[Robert Evans]

He was a doctor.

[Miles Gray]

At least he was white. It's crazy. Just not dealing with these people's fucking crimes because of their privilege.

[Robert Evans]

Always the case. The guy running the country right now, it's just, yeah, just let him get away with it forever.

[Miles Gray]

That's like the little fucking snowball. And now we have shit mountain that we're snowboarding down.

[Robert Evans]

They're just selling cyanide as a cancer cure. It's not like they're selling, I don't know, cocaine, you know, or heroin or marijuana. God forbid.

[Miles Gray]

Wait, hold on. I'm not selling cyanide. Their bodies are turning that. That's what their bodies are choosing to do with it. Okay? Some of the people, it doesn't. It cures them.

[Robert Evans]

It's not like they shoplifted, right? You know, they're just poisoning people with cyanide.

[Miles Gray]

What do you want me to say, man? It's not even called cyanide.

[Robert Evans]

It's not even cyanide quite yet until you eat it.

[Miles Gray]

That's so unfair that you would say that. Oh, my God.

[Robert Evans]

So 74, Byron loses his osteopath license. And a Quackwatch article I found just noted that after this quote, Byron died shortly thereafter. And I was like, what happened? Right? I wanted to look into it. So I found A slightly more detailed reference to Byron in a family obituary when Krebs Jr. Died in 1966. This is Krebs Jr. S fucking obituary. He died in 66. 1996.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, 96.

[Robert Evans]

My bad. Yeah. Byron Krebs died in 1974. And the line in the obituary just reads, byron Krebs died in a laboratory explosion. I really. There's more story there than we have and I want it.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, did he? What the fuck?

[Robert Evans]

My assumption is that he was trying to find another hat cancer remedy that, like, you know, would get around the California law, and it just blew up in his face very literally. Because none of the Krebs family are good scientists.

[Miles Gray]

You think he was using like nitroglycerin or something?

[Robert Evans]

Maybe dynamite cures. If mustard gas cures cancer, dynamite must.

[Miles Gray]

I mean, radiation, the atomic bomb.

[Robert Evans]

I'm trying all the bombs.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah. These are just bomb ass cures that I'm working on for.

[Robert Evans]

You ever try vaping hexogen? It fixes you right the fuck up.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, my God.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, man.

[Miles Gray]

What the fuck? Died in a laboratory.

[Robert Evans]

I just.

[Miles Gray]

Wait. What if you just give me the.

[Robert Evans]

Sentence explosion, not fire, explosion.

[Miles Gray]

Can you just give me the sentence before that, just so I like the flow of this sentence?

[Robert Evans]

Oh, God. I guess I can pull up my sources. One sec.

[Miles Gray]

Just because I think that's just the funniest line in an obituary. It's like, yeah, his brother died in a fucking lab explosion.

[Robert Evans]

Anyway, one sec. I'm pulling up my source for the obituary.

[Miles Gray]

That is, this is how you guys know this shit is thorough.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Miles Gray]

Just off the cuff, I'm having to inconvenience Robert.

[Robert Evans]

He's got two obituaries. One is like the news obituary that talks about, you know, the real stuff that he did.

[Miles Gray]

Right, right, right.

[Robert Evans]

This is the family one, so. Yeah, okay. Ernst Senior died in 1970 at age 93. Mr. Krebs was convicted in 73 of practicing medicine without a license, as well as falsely representing Latrill as a cancer cure and dispensing it. He and his brother, a physician who was found guilty of prescribing the substance, were fined. Byron Krebs died in a laboratory explosion in 1974.

[Miles Gray]

I love the way that shit reads, dude.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's very funny.

[Ad]

It's a bop.

[Robert Evans]

So with Byron Krebs gone and Krebs Sr. In his 90s, McNaughton took an increasingly active role in selling Littrille. After failing to get respected cancer charities to support Littrill's studies, he managed to help convince The American Weekly, a prominent magazine, to publish two puff articles about Littrille next, per Quackwatch, they were followed shortly by a paperback book from which they had been taken. Control for cancer. The most important medical news of our time. The COVID promised the first major breakthrough in the cancer mystery. The day is near when no one will need to die from cancer. The revolutionary new anti cancer drug will be to what insulin is to diabetes. Written by Clyn D. Kittler, who earlier had acclaimed Krebs Jr. As Nobel Prize material, the book presented a highly dramatic version of Les Trilles discovery and a most optimistic rendering of Krebs sponsored clinical experience with the drug. To use the term cures for cancer, Kittler considered inaccurate. But he added, the idea of a cancer control, on the other hand, is perfectly plausible in the minds of an increasing number of leading scientists. The best control now available is Les Trilles. The book concluded by quoting Andrew McNaughton to the same effect. McNaughton contributed also to the book's foreword, to which he appended his foundation's Montreal address. Letters of inquiry sent to the foundation received replies saying Littrelle might soon be available. So again, he's like, all right, they got in trouble for calling this a cure. It's not a cure, it's a control. Yeah, it's like a brake pedal for cancer. You know, what the fuck? We put a governor on this bad boy.

[Miles Gray]

Exactly, man. Just fucking. Unless you get to. Unless you're at a racetrack. It knows with the gps, then the chip turns off. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

God, that's so funny. Now, this would not be the first time a fake miracle cure had been pushed by a book. But previously it was mostly stuff like Dianetics. Right. Or the power of positive of Thinking, where you're making claims, sometimes even medical ones, about like, we can cure this psychiatric illness or whatever. But it's usually like the thing you're saying is like. And it's a way of meditating or a way of thinking or a rule of the universe. You don't know. This is one of the first times, if not the first time, that there's like a major book published to get people to take a fake drug as a cancer cure in like the modern era, right? Yeah. So, yeah, the book itself did not sell as well as the publisher had hoped, but it sells pretty well. It's just that they buy like, well, five times as many copies as it possibly could have sold. So it like fucks up the publisher. But a lot of people do get copies of this book. It is influential, right? And it sells well enough to bring thousands of new customers to the fantasy world being crafted by the Krebs's and McNaughton. As Latrill spread around the world, it was banned first in California, then Canada and several other US states. McNaughton lost a major lawsuit in the mid-60s, and Ernst Krebs Sr. Was permanently enjoined against ever selling another dose of Luttrill, which he continued prescribing for the remainder of his life, which ended in 1970 when he fell down the stairs. Either 93 or 94. I've seen both. I'm not gonna.

[Miles Gray]

After a lab explosion.

[Robert Evans]

He's too old, right? Yeah. The lab explosion threw him down the stairs.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, fuck.

[Robert Evans]

Now, Ernst Krebs Jr. The fake doctor, was the only Krebs left alive or in the business now, which was largely being operated by Andrew McNaughton, as he had both the corporate structure and money for the legal muscle necessary to keep fighting the fight. Whenever one of his corporate entities would attract too much heat, McNaughten would create a new one and continue manufacturing and shipping Littrill from eventually Sausalito. In 1970, he again begged the FDA to approve Littrill for experimental use on humans. To do this, he had to craft an investigational new drug application, or ind, which is if you think you've got a medicine that you need to test, you make that and you send it to the government and they're like, yeah, this seems like it's probably worth testing on people and safe to test on people or something else. Let's try it right now. This is not a good application and it's never going to get accepted. But the application which makes Latrill sound wonderful starts getting shared around today. It'd be on fucking Twitter, but it's just being passed. Copies of it are being passed around to this growing network of Littrill activists that have started forming in the 60s. And they've started seeing themselves as activists because they're convinced this is going to save them or that it did save them. And there's a lot of these people are folks who had a cancer and they took Littril and a traditional therapy and they got better, but they keep taking Latril because they're convinced it'll keep them from getting the cancer again and again. There's this trauma of the cancer was so scary. Maybe if I just never stop taking this stuff, I won't get it again, right? Cause that's one of the things that Krebs is claiming is that actually, yeah, you can just take it for maintenance, and it'll keep your body inhospitable to cancer. You know, fuck it, why not, right? Jesus. So the central mover of this kind of shift from you've got some patients and whatnot who are, like, angry, and they got convinced to do a letter writing campaign. There is, like, a network of activists who are working together in organizations in order to fight for their right to this fake medicine. And the person who causes that shift most directly is a teacher from Southern California named Cecile Hoffman. She had been diagnosed with breast cancer in 1959 and endured a horrible mastectomy to deal with it. Right. This is 59 Medicine. Her mastectomy, number one, is just a nightmarish procedure. It's extremely painful. She doesn't heal well. And number two, they don't do a good job at it. So her cancer doesn't go away entirely. And a couple years later, she finds out that it spreads. And again, this is the stage of it where you do have to have a lot of sympathy for these people. She's being told, well, we need to do chemo, right? We need to do another medical intervention. She's had one, and it was horrible. And then latrill activists, well, to be more accurate, she starts doing her own research, and she finds the book I just talked about, and she reads McNaughton's forward, and she's like, well, fuck this, I'm gonna take Littril. Right? Like, that's clearly the best option. And you have to have, again, some sympathy for this woman. But her impact is going to be disastrous. So at first she lives in, like, la. She's in, like. Or she lives in San Diego, I think. She starts traveling to Montreal to get. Because she can't get in California, and she takes it in Montreal for a while, but then Littrel gets restricted in Montreal, and so she becomes the very first person to take to Mexico to get her Littrill fix. Right? She is patient zero from Mexican Littrill. And she finds a doctor down in Tijuana named Ernesto Contreras who is happy to prescribe this stuff despite not knowing the first thing about it. And Contreras is important because he is one of our very first. He's very good at marketing himself. He's at this point just a small family doctor, but he's going to immediately latch onto this grift. And he's one of the first vibes only MDs. He calls himself like a holistic doctor and shit, but he's Basically, like, you know what's most important. A lot of the time it's not even the medicine. I don't always know why the medicine works. It's about how good you make them feel. It's about chilling them out. It's about keeping people positive. Right. That'll do a lot, right? That does most of what we need to do. So they just come in and I just tell them whatever they wanna hear. They say they think they need Latrell. I'll tell em. Yeah, it'll definitely cure you. Here, have it. And he's really a nice guy. I mean, a nice guy in the sense that people like him. Not that he's a good person. Those things inflated. He's a bad person. But he's extremely charming. People really, really feel comfortable. He's got great bedside manner, right. And he'll just say yes to whatever insane thing people want prescribed as long as they're paying. In 1963, Cecile founds the International association of Cancer Victims and Friends. And Once she met Dr. Contrera, she starts telling all of her friends and fellow sufferers in this international association about him. And she's like, look, if you're sick, this is where this is the only good doctor. This is the guy who knows how to cure cancer. You could trust him, he'll get you your meds. He doesn't care about, you know, these little things, like, has Latrill helped anybody? Is it just cyanide? Right.

[Miles Gray]

Is it medically sound?

[Robert Evans]

Come to his Tijuana clinic and he will cure you. Right? So she starts this trend both of organizing these patients together and of being like, let's all head to Tijuana for good medicine. In other words, Cecile Hoffman is an ur figure in the annals of patient alternative medicine advocates, right? She is. She is the precursor to. What's her name? Ginny McCarthy. Right. Like very much what we're talking about with Cecile.

[Miles Gray]

So she's gonna host a dating show called Singled Out.

[Robert Evans]

Bad news about that. But before we get to that, let me read a quote about her from Dr. Ben Wilson. Persuaded that Latrell had saved her life, angry that this treatment was not legally available in the United States, Mrs. Hoffman established her international association through print meetings and personal evangelism. The association castigated out of date, outmoded, so called orthodox treatment. And Vigoro espoused what Mrs. Hoffman termed non toxic beneficial therapies, especially Latrill Krebs Jr. Contreras. And in time, Dean Burke addressed the International Association Assemblies. The organization provided Cancer sufferers with information on how to get to Tijuana. So it's not yet, they're not yet smuggling people, but they're telling them, here's how to get here, here's what to do. And they're, they're spreading this around by like word of mouth. So by the end of the 60s, Krebs, Jr, McNaughton, Dr. Contreras and Cecile have set up Latrill for a booming 1970s. Right. All the ingredients are there. Right. Like we figured out how to like market and sell this stuff. We're starting to organize patients to like provide, you know, pressure to judges and eventually to legislators. And we've got these, we've got this like word of mouth network set up with like an advocate organization and we've got a clinic in Mexico that we're sending them to. Right. Everything, everything you need for this to really explode in the 70s. Tragically, Cecile will not live to see that decade. Despite more than six years of littrel treatment, she died in 1969 of metastatic cancer. Because instead of treating her cancer, she did nothing. And that's what happens with that. Right.

[Miles Gray]

But she took latril.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And it killed her. She dies a horrible death. No one in her organization seems to have questioned what this might mean about the validity of latril as a medicine. Yeah. You know what else no one questions? I've never questioned it. You certainly shouldn't.

[Miles Gray]

What?

[Robert Evans]

The products and services that support this podcast.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, I love them.

[Robert Evans]

Don't question them. Don't ask. Shit.

[Ad]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Annabe sofa, which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and Certain restrictions may apply.

Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. I'm 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch. He goes, oh, God. Harnett, jailhouse lawyer. And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her.

[Robert Evans]

You're supposed to have your faith in God. But I had nothing but faith in her.

[Ad]

So many of these women had lived the same stories. I said, were you a victim of domestic violence? And she was like, yeah, but maybe Kelly could change the ending. I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm going to be the first one to do that. This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her own freedom, but her girlfriend's too.

[Robert Evans]

I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison.

[Ad]

The girlfriends, jailhouse lawyer. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Lithgow]

Hello, I'm John Lithgow.

[Robert Evans]

We choose to go to the moon.

[John Lithgow]

I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast.

[Robert Evans]

That's One Small Step for Man.

[John Lithgow]

It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.

[Miles Gray]

You're a great pioneer as far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen.

[John Lithgow]

That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't predisposition.

[Ad]

To depression, alcohol abuse, and suicide.

[John Lithgow]

We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons.

[Robert Evans]

What do you say, Buzz? Another beer.

[John Lithgow]

And triumph over addiction.

[Ad]

Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin.

[John Lithgow]

Good luck to you and become a true hero.

[Robert Evans]

Buzz and I will proceed into the.

[John Lithgow]

Lunar module, not because he can't, but because he conquers himself.

[Robert Evans]

Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission.

[John Lithgow]

Starring me, John Lithgow.

[Miles Gray]

Can you put it through?

[John Lithgow]

Can you Translate on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

Columbia Jan Marsalek was a model of German corporate success. It seemed so damn simple for him. Also, it turned out, a fraudster.

[Miles Gray]

Where does the money come from?

[Robert Evans]

That was something that I always was questioning myself. But what if I told you that was the least interesting thing about him?

[Miles Gray]

His secret office was less than 500.

[Robert Evans]

Meters down the road. I often ask myself now, did I know the true Rian at all?

[Miles Gray]

Certain things in my life since then.

[Robert Evans]

Have gone terribly wrong. I don't know if they followed me to my home.

[Miles Gray]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story because this ties.

[Robert Evans]

Together the Cold War with the new one. Listen to Hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, my gosh, we're back and we're talking literill. So Hoffman, who is dead now, but, you know, as the 70s starts, her chief innovation will outlive her. And the primary thing that she does that's relevant to us today is that she's, as far as I can tell, the first person who brings the catchphrase freedom of choice to the debate about what kind of stuff you should be able to sell as medicine. Oh, wow, right. She is the one who was like, it's a freedom of choice thing, you know, as to what medicine is, you know, who's to say what's not medicine? I. I have a right as an American, a First Amendment right, to say what medicine is. My medicine is right.

[Miles Gray]

Absolutely.

[Robert Evans]

Now, her organization works really well alongside a slightly older group. She's not her group. This foundation is not the first group that starts pushing this. And, well, they hadn't used that exact language. They had been doing a version of, like, it's a freedom thing, right? And this older organization is the National Health foundation, which had been established, I think, in 1955 by a different con man who was marketing fake health devices that kept getting banned. And the foundation, again, these guys are early advocates for what they're saying. We can't sell just any old crap. Fuck that, you know? And they reach out aggressively to every new little organization that bumps up in the 70s, focused on unorthodox medical and health treatments. Like, if you think meditation has taught you Venusian health magic, or if you think Latrill is a wonder drug, they will fight for your right, you know, like your sacred right to die. Unnecessarily taking nonsense.

[Miles Gray]

Who's to fucking tell you what science is? Scientists.

[Robert Evans]

It's so frustrating because all of these arguments, if you replace fake medicine with real illegal drugs, I'm like, yeah, legalize it. It's everyone's choice. If you want to fucking get addicted to heroin, that's your. That's your choice, I believe. But you know what heroin is? You should be informed of it, right? Be told that, like, yeah, this kills people all the fucking time. It's super dangerous.

[Miles Gray]

What does it do?

[Robert Evans]

It gets horribly addictive.

[Miles Gray]

The first one's going to be a fucking wild one.

[Robert Evans]

You're going to feel great, and then it's going to destroy your life, right?

[Miles Gray]

Then you're going to chase the dragon, as it were.

[Robert Evans]

I am okay with like cocaine market as like, this is horrible for you and will make you a worse person. Right. Like, just be honest about all of this stuff.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, super upset. But let people buy and you will fart a lot.

[Robert Evans]

Pot. Pot. You're not nearly as interesting as you.

[Miles Gray]

Think you are, but go ahead, asshole.

[Robert Evans]

Sure. Fuck it. This is not keying you on the secrets of the universe, actually. And it may not even be relaxing you as much as you think it is.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, your ideas aren't getting better when you're writing a song.

[Robert Evans]

These are. It's fine. Well, with the exception of exactly one and a half beers, you know, maybe a little bit of acid.

[Miles Gray]

There you go.

[Robert Evans]

Some mushrooms.

[Miles Gray]

These are good acids.

[Robert Evans]

Some Adderall that you grind up and shoot. Okay, whatever. So in 1970, Ernst Krebst Jr. Would usher in his last major innovation for Latrill. And this is the second Latrill era. So the first era is everybody loves chemicals, right? Latrill's basically chemo. It's another weird chemical that we found that'll save you, right? By 1970, people are kind of over weird chemicals. They're starting to be like, what if I want to be natural and healthy and, you know, diet and exercise and all this stuff, right? And so he reads the tea leaves and he's like, okay. People don't want a random chemical to shoot into themselves or to take his pills. This is like the health era, right? So let me think. People have started to learn that chemo's pretty unpleasant to experience even though it works. What if I'm like chemo? Well, the reason it's unpleasant is it's unnatural, right? And what I've got is a natural drug for a new and health conscious era. See, Latril, it doesn't work like chemotherapy. It's not a chemical. It's a vitamin. And cancer is obviously caused by a vitamin deficiency.

[Miles Gray]

Exactly.

[Robert Evans]

And I found the new vitamin that no one knew about before that you're all deficient in. And that's what Littril is. I want to quote now from an article in the Cancer Journal for clinicians. In 1970, Ernst Krebs Jr. Announced that he had discovered the etiology of all forms of cancer. Cancer, he concluded, was a vitamin deficiency disease every bit as much as is pernicious anemia. According to Krebs Jr. The missing vitamin in cancer was Littril, which he called vitamin B17. Oh my God, it's B17. You know, B12 is five numbers better than B12.

[Miles Gray]

Dude, wait till I drop B52, bro. Yeah, that's just gonna fucking crack your mind.

[Robert Evans]

It's fucking nuts. This is not a new scheme for his family, like faking that you've got a fucking new vitamin. If you remember in the last episode, he and his dad got in trouble for selling pengamic acid, which also came from the kernels of shelled apricot seeds. They had a real apricot thing. And in 1945, Krebs Sr. Had claimed this is a systemic detoxicant which can cure all allergies. So both. First off, he's like a pioneer in saying that there's toxins, we gotta detox ya.

[Miles Gray]

Gets em out. Gets em right out.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And he's like, also it cures arthritis for some reason. He marketed it as allergenase and described it as vitamin B15, even though again, it's not a vitamin. So his son is like, yeah, Latrill, it's really vitamin B17. And you can't ban the sale of vitamins, right?

[Miles Gray]

Mm mm. No you can't.

[Robert Evans]

Now, the surprising number of kooks and cranks who liked this stuff had been isolated before. But in the 70s, they also increasingly come together. And you know, Cecile Hoffman was a big part of that. And they started bombarding lawmakers with letters and professional grade lobbying campaigns. The Federation's journal compared its members to Abraham Lincoln, reminding them that he too fought for liberty against great odds.

[Miles Gray]

Wow.

[Robert Evans]

You know, slavery. That's the same as me not being able to poison you with this shit.

[Miles Gray]

Exactly. Dude, I don't want you to tell me I can't cyanide myself.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, right. If you don't have the right to take cyanide, what right do you have?

[Miles Gray]

None.

[Robert Evans]

None. That's my opinion.

[Miles Gray]

What did our forefathers fight for?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, definitely cyanide. Now, at this stage, the unorthodox medical movement or the bullshit medical movement was not right or left wing. Right. A good number of people who are drawn into this are drawn in again for an understandable reason. It's no longer. We just don't know much about medicine and there's no real way to treat what I have. So I'm desperate. But a lot of people are now like, well, the government says this stuff is bad. And the government says, listen to this guy about what's good. But the government also said that, like, they didn't murder Fred Hampton or that they weren't tracking Martin Luther King Jr. And we know that's A lie. And the government said that the Vietnam War was absolutely necessary. We know that's a lie. Yeah, yeah, right. Like there's this. Understandable.

[Miles Gray]

They said we beat the Nazis too, huh?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So there's this degree of like, people are really starting to realize, oh, the American government can't be trusted. Which is true. But they're unfortunately extrapolating. Fucking. I can't trust LBJ about Vietnam to like, why would I trust a doctor about what cures cancer? You know, except for this doctor who's not a doctor.

[Miles Gray]

Yep, that's how it all starts. You just need one thing to kind of be true. And then just like now, I'll apply it to everything.

[Robert Evans]

And unfortunately, there's not like a. One of the things I hate about this story is there's not a lot of. There's not a simple lesson here. I would love it if the simple lesson was when somebody does something like this, you gotta come after them like the hammer of God and really just nuke the person for trying to, like, feed people fake medicine. But one important part of the story here is that the aggression with which the government goes after these guys, not personally, because they're never really personally going after these guys, but the aggression with which they go after people. Smuggling Littrill and possessing Littrill is part of what fuels this backlash. And it all gets swept up in like, well, the anti war movement, all this other anti government stuff that's going on right now. And so it's getting in and increasingly it's got inroads to like, both kind of sides of the political spectrum who don't trust the government and who, like, see this crackdown. They're like, well, they must be hiding something, right? California really, really doubles down on arresting and intercepting people who are bringing in latrill shipments. One woman named Mary Wel had helped establish what she called the underground railroad of latrill. Smuggling cancer patients from the US to Dr. Contreras Clinic, which had gone from. He used to run it out of his home, and now it's a whole compound with like bungalows for long term patient care. So Welchel starts smuggling people there and gets caught and convicted in 1971 of delivering an illegal compound for treating cancer. And fined. And basically you won't have to go to jail if you don't take anyone to Mexico for two years, although her conviction is set aside. So it's this mix of they're publicly going after these people who seem sympathetic, but then they're not actually punishing them. I Think it's that poisonous hybrid where it's like, they both look like the evil 1984 government. But also, there's no real incentive to stop for the people making money because you know, you're not gonna really get in trouble.

[Miles Gray]

The Underground Railroad is an amazing. I love that. I love that.

[Robert Evans]

I'm like the Harriet Tubman of convincing children to take cyanide.

[Miles Gray]

I'm the Harriet bathtub gin of poisoning yourself.

[Robert Evans]

I wish if scientists ever invent. The only ethical use for a time machine would be to go back in time to people like Harriet Tubman and tell them all the fucked up ways their name is used in the future. And just like, all right, Martin Luther King, here's a list of like, quotes people have printed out pretending to agree with you.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, exactly.

[Robert Evans]

And here's a hammer. Do you just want to, like, take some. Take care of business?

[Miles Gray]

You want to come with me in.

[Robert Evans]

A time machine, man, we can fuck some people up. Like, you're owed. Oh, man. Through the early 70s, McNaughton continued to act as the godfather of Luttrell. But then a Canadian judge convicted him of fraud. Not for the medical stuff, but for manipulating stock prices. So he has to flee Canada and he's like, well, the US is obviously no safer for me. So he starts living in Tijuana and reorganizes his business around both advertising Mexican Littrell clinics. And he's cut in on that business and overseeing the smuggling of Littrill into the US from Mexico. He's like a reverse drug coyote. So the second period of Littrill history is generally considered to have ended sometime in the early 1970s. Right. As the need to justify Littrell scientifically faded away entirely. You know, they start with like, it's like chemo. And then they're like, it's a vitamin. And they keep saying it's a vitamin up until kind of the end of Latrill as a medicine. But that becomes less and less meaningful. The justification for how it works, because the state starts arresting doctors in the early 70s. They're arresting people, they're charging them. And this massively increases the sense of victimhood that creates this self reinforcing subculture that is now not into Luttrell because it's a cure entirely, but because they're ethically and ideologically invested in it, the political ideology they've built. This has to work so you don't have to convince any state or medical organization to back the drug. Now people are no longer waiting for evidence. They are ideologically Convinced that this stuff is necessary and that the government is evil. Right? And so they will go to war on behalf of the people selling this poison. Now that's the third era of Littrill. And a major catalyst for the birth of this era is Dr. John A. Richardson, a right wing crank and medical doctor who was arrested in 1972 in Alban, Albany, California for violating the state anti quackery law. For reasons beyond me, authorities filmed the arrest and it looks bad because it just looks like armed thugs taking a doctor into custody at gunpoint. Which is like what it is. But he's a bad doctor. It's like bad pr. It's like. No, that's not. That's just gonna make him look like a victim, you dipshits.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah. Why'd you point the gun at his head, Richardson?

[Robert Evans]

Well, cause they're cops. Richardson was convicted of gross negligence and incompetence and he was in fact guilty. But he looks like Jesus to the kind of patient advocates who just gotten the hang of organizing. Now here's where things really get dark. Because I said he was a right wing crank, I wasn't just insulting him. This is critical to the story because Dr. Richardson is a member of a political organization that we have covered on this show, the John Birch Society.

[Miles Gray]

Whoa.

[Robert Evans]

And the John Birch Society gets in board at this point. Fuck me.

[Miles Gray]

Wow, that's wild.

[Robert Evans]

Crucial to the third stage of Littrill. Now, I want to quote now from an article called Lesson in Cancer Quackery for the Cancer Journal. For clinicians, the phenomenon was largely confined to the west coast in Mexico until the 1972 full scale entry into the controversy of John Birch members in support of Birch activist Dr. John Richardson. Using the arguments and sophisticated political machinery of the far right and aided by the manpower of a large group of Americans caught up in a new religion of extreme food faddism. The promotion rapidly swept across the country. And yeah, it's bleak. I'm gonna like this sounds very similar to what's going on now because this is where it starts, right?

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, exactly.

[Robert Evans]

While Dr. Richardson gets the ball rolling on bringing in the far right, the actual hard work of tying this to conservatism, to this like fascist right wing cause was done by a more influential Bircher, a man named Robert W. Bradford from Los Altos, California. He and a handful of far right activists founded a new organization to push Littrill and defend Dr. Richardson. Per Dr. Williams article, Bradford was a nuclear technician on the Stanford University staff working on building a linear accelerator for research in subatomic physics. Poised, articulate, skilled at organization, Bradford, aided by equally dedicated associates, quickly made a success of the new Committee for Freedom of Choice in cancer therapy. In 1975, he gave up his Stanford job to devote full time to the committee and to Le Trill. Ties with the nation's already existing conservative network surely helped immensely in the speed with which the committee established local branches. By 1977, Bradford claimed 500 chapters with some 35,000 members. And of course, it's an engineer. Great engineers are some of the easiest. Like they're overrepresented as like, terrorists, members of extremist groups. Because you get very good at something very hard and you also convince yourself that everything works the way that does. Right? Yeah.

[Miles Gray]

And then, yeah, then that makes you even more susceptible to some kind of cult type thing where you're like, well, I know fucking better than everybody else.

[Robert Evans]

And he's also just genuinely a skilled organizer. Right. Going in the space of a few years to 500 chapters with 35,000 members. That's no mean feat. That's someone who is very intelligent at what they're doing. Right. Alas. And there you have it, folks. That is where this all began, baby. We are now staring at the very start of the road that led us to RFK Jr. Killing the concept of medical research in the United States. Right. Obviously there were some precursors we can talk about early. And we have on the show the early anti vax movement. But in terms of this is where there's a direct line between this political movement and the one and Trumpism. Right. A very direct line of dissent that is more broken up the further back you go. And here is where it's just a straight thick line. Right. This is the start of it. This is the inciting incident that led in 2020 to people marching around with guns, threatening doctors and nurses for begging them to take safety precautions during a plague. Right. We're at ground zero here.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And you know what I love about ground zero?

[Miles Gray]

The view.

[Robert Evans]

Oh my God, the great perfect view of ground zero, you know, but anyway, here's ads.

[Ad]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa, which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric, slipcover and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa with a modular design and changeable slipcovers. You can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 6, 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. I'm 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch. He goes, oh God. Harnett jailhouse Lawyer and as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her.

[Robert Evans]

You're supposed to have your faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her.

[Ad]

So many of these women had lived the same stories. I said, were you a victim of domestic violence? And she was like, yeah, but maybe Kelly could change the ending. I said, how many people people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here. I'm going to be the first one to do that. This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her own freedom, but her girlfriend's too.

[Robert Evans]

I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison.

[Ad]

The Girlfriends Jailhouse Lawyer listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your your podcasts.

[John Lithgow]

Hello, I'm John Lithgow.

[Robert Evans]

We choose to go to the moon.

[John Lithgow]

I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast.

[Robert Evans]

It's One Small Step for Man.

[John Lithgow]

It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.

[Robert Evans]

You're a great pilot, Buzz.

[Miles Gray]

As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen.

[John Lithgow]

That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't predisposition.

[Ad]

To depression, alcohol abuse and suicide.

[John Lithgow]

We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons.

[Robert Evans]

What do you say, Buzz?

[John Lithgow]

Another beer and triumph over addiction.

[Ad]

Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin.

[John Lithgow]

Good luck to you and become a true hero.

[Robert Evans]

Buzz and I will proceed into the.

[John Lithgow]

Lunar module not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself.

[Robert Evans]

Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission.

[John Lithgow]

Starring me, John Lithgow.

[Miles Gray]

Can you put it to the.

[Robert Evans]

On.

[John Lithgow]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

Columbia Jan Marsalek was a model of German corporate success. It seemed so damn simple for him. Also, it turned out, a fraudster.

[Miles Gray]

Where does the money come from?

[Robert Evans]

That was something that I always was questioning myself. But what if I told you that was the least interesting thing about him?

[Miles Gray]

His secret office was less than 500.

[Robert Evans]

Meters down the road. I often ask myself now, did I know the true Rian at all?

[Miles Gray]

Certain things in my life since then.

[Robert Evans]

Have gone terribly wrong. I don't know if they followed me to my home.

[Miles Gray]

It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story, because this ties.

[Robert Evans]

Together the Cold War with the new one. Listen to Hot Agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're. We're somewhere. Who knows where we are.

[Miles Gray]

We back.

[Robert Evans]

We're back. That's for sure. Not that we ever left. Thanks for confirming we didn't. I just told you another story that would have blown the audience's minds.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, we can't do that.

[Robert Evans]

You're not gonna hear it. You're never gonna hear it. You know this.

[Miles Gray]

I mean, I'll give you guys a little hint. It was a cure for cancer.

[Robert Evans]

It was a cure for cancer.

[Miles Gray]

My mind is fucking blown.

[Robert Evans]

And look, if you Venmo me, let's say a couple of million dollars, you know, you're just working in the lab, and I don't want that couple of million dollars for myself. Like, Miles and I put a lot of money into our lap. You know, we're just trying to.

[Miles Gray]

We just gotta get even here.

[Robert Evans]

We gotta be whole, you know? Can we be whole?

[Miles Gray]

Yeah. I gotta get back to zero or this deal isn't good for me.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So the John Birch Society's entrance to the Littrelle movement does a couple of things. First off, it makes medical freedom a core conservative voting issue. And it connects that issue and the people advocating it to the Republican political establishment, who are going to be hugely helpful in pushing for exceptions over things like supplements in the years to come. This is where you get all these laws about like, oh, no, you can't sell this as a cure. But you can say, maybe it helps with this disease if you're not supplemental, and it's a cure and it's a supplement, then we can't regulate it. Right? All of Joe Rogan's business, you know, Alex Jones, this is the groundwork for why all of that is the case. Right? Because it becomes a thing where, like, well, if you're in an extremely conservative area and you really want to like throw some bones to the far right. Just loosen the laws around what kind of shit they can put in their body and call it a cure, fuck it, you know?

[Miles Gray]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Now, the other thing the John Birch Society does here is they bring in expertise in what far right conspiracists are best at, which is making people homicidally angry. While the Krebs strategy had been to convince patients and doctors this stuff works and kind of brute force exceptions for human experiments to do a runaround on the drug approval process while seeming to follow it in this new Bercher era, the focus was much more on making people angry. Just blame the federal government for poisoning them and hiding real medicine, and then you don't have to do anything else. Right. The movement amounts around. Latrill evolved from a few patients and their families to a crusade of activists fighting medical 1984. Right. Like we're literally, this is Big Brother that we're fighting by taking cyanide pills. Now, increasingly, these people started finding other people who'd been diagnosed with various cancers and proactively being like, wait, you're about to go in for chemo. No, no, no, no, no. Take latrill, take Latril.

[Miles Gray]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, this is like chemo. No, it's a vitamin. Well, it's a cell, dude. Just take it.

[Robert Evans]

It's a chemo vitamin supplement, you know?

[Miles Gray]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Money flows to guys like Bradford, who again, is increasingly becoming like a reverse coyote for families trying to smuggle themselves into Mexico or smuggle littrill out. In 1977, he was finally tried alongside Dr. Richardson and convicted of conspiracy. Now, something else happened in 1977. On June 8th of that year, an 11 year old girl named Elizabeth Hankin of Attica, New York got into her father's medicine cabinet. Now, her dad had been diagnosed with cancer and he'd been convinced to take Latril. I don't know if he was also taking real medicine or if this was the only thing he was doing, but he's got Latril in the house. And Elizabeth, being an 11 month old, eats five tablets, which is about two and a half grams of his medication. And most people who take Latril orally just pass it. Some people's bodies, for whatever reason, have more of that enzyme that turns it into cyanide. And I don't know why, but Elizabeth is one of them. She goes into a coma and she dies three days later due to cyanide poisoning caused by the ingestion of amygdalin. Per her coroner's report, her father dies the next year. Because this is not a treatment for anything. Not the first kid to die from this stuff, not the last, but one of the most well documented ones. Right. And part of it I said that maybe she just said more of this enzyme and also maybe the latril. Different people are making latril and it's not at all consistent. Like when the FDA is trying to test this, they keep finding different formulations. So maybe it was just latril that was inherently more dangerous. Right. We don't really know. Earlier that same year, a 17 year old girl in Los Angeles drank three ampoules of Littril, about 10.5 grams, and within 10 minutes entered a coma due to cyanide poisoning. She died a day later. Now, again, these happen a month away from each other, these and stories like them start percolating out to the medical press. The regular press, however, is still often more interested in reading testimonies of people who'd been miraculously cured. I found a timer article that was written around this period that was just titled Debate Over Latrill. And here's how. Again, great journalism. Here's how this opens. In a motel room in Imperial Beach, California, the thin man from Arizona puffed nervously on a cigarette as he told his story. Suffering from cancer of the lung, he was told last fall that he had only months to live. Two weeks ago he came to Imperial beach, and since then he has regularly driven across the border to Tijuana, Mexico and visited a clinic where he receives a shot of Latrill, a controversial drug that has been outlawed in the US since 1963. Already he claims to be better. Says he, I feel now like I'm not going to die. Oh, God, I love that he's still smoking. He's got lung cancer. He's smoking. Like, no, I feel good now. I'm definitely living.

[Miles Gray]

I love the little Trill. Just that Trill, man.

[Robert Evans]

We all love that Trill, baby. We could have made a Deep Space nine reference there, but I'm not gonna do that. No, no, I'm not giving you people that. You don't deserve it. So this audience summarized some of the dangers and a small part of the case against Latrell, but it basically came away arguing, hey, why doesn't the government just do human studies and put these claims to rest? You know, why don't they just end the debate, right? And like, again, it's just like a journalist sticking his mouth where he shouldn't. Like, or you should, but you should Talk to a scientist. Because a doctor would have told you, well, we can't test this on people ethically. Cause it's cyanide. Cause it kills them.

[Miles Gray]

So what are you saying?

[Robert Evans]

Like, we can't just do a test of the cyanide pill? Oh, all right, Let me break this down very simply for you, journalist man.

[Miles Gray]

Okay, go ahead. I'm listening.

[Robert Evans]

You can't just poison people to death to see if that kills them anymore.

[Miles Gray]

How do we know?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, maybe it works. Maybe it works.

[Miles Gray]

You never know. That's the thing. That's what you guys are just hating.

[Robert Evans]

You might think that a total lack of evidence that your cancer cure helps people and a preponderance of evidence that it kills children in particular would have convinced a man like Ernst Krebs Jr. To back off. But he had, by the late seventies, adapted to the new tactic of crying oppression and just pretending that the people who were dying weren't dying. He portrayed himself as a victim set upon by a. A sinister Big Brother style regime. And I want to quote. I want to read you a quote. This is like him delivering a speech. He would give variations of this often when he would give his public appearances after presenting a rather effective lecture on cancer. The windshield was shot out of my car on the road back to San Francisco the next night. The glass window in the tailgate was shot out. 300 miles removed from the first shooting. The police said, maybe someone is trying to tell you something. The late Arthur Harris, M.D. was threatened by two men with assassination if he continued to use Latrilla. Since that time, we have decentralized the work so that if any two of us are shot out of the saddle, it will only have a slight negative effect on the program.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, my God.

[Robert Evans]

We're arguing that, like, yeah, we're doing what they do with, like, the fucking Pepsi. The KFC ingredient. You always have to. We're the president and the vice president.

[Miles Gray]

We need a lone survivor. Protocol.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. For this Littrill bullshit.

[Miles Gray]

Fucking Jesus Christ.

[Robert Evans]

Now, the bleakest thing about this story is how well his tactics worked. The same year those kids died. 1977, a federal district court judge, Oklahoma, ruled that Latrell was exempt from the Food and Drug act because of a grandfather clause which stated that terminal cancer patients had a right to privacy for their personal supplies of an experimental drug. This right was affirmed by the U.S. court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit, who ruled that the Food and Drug act didn't apply to terminal patients, period. And it's like, there is a degree to which, like, well, if this had stayed the law, maybe at least medical marijuana would have been less of a fight or something. But this does not continue along these lines and probably unbalanced. Good, given what's happening right now, what's happening with Luttrell. But the chain of court victories is halted and reversed ultimately by the US Supreme Court, who are like, nah, bro, dying of cancer doesn't mean you don't deserve consumer protection. Right. And that's what the concern over Luttrell is. It doesn't work and it kills people and you don't have a right to poison people just because their cancer's serious. By 1980, it was established that the FDA ban on Latrill did not infringe on any constitutional rights rights. Now that the federal battle was over in 1980, also Krebs Jr. Briefly goes to actual prison for a little while. Like he gets a brief sentence from his 73 conviction. So he does a little bit of time. Now that the federal battle is over, Littrell advocates pivoted and embraced a strategy that would be modified not long after by the medical marijuana movement. I didn't bring that up for nothing. Per that article in the Cancer Journal for clinicians, supporters developed an end run approach by promoting legalizing statutes within the state states. Utilizing the lobbying machinery of the right wing political apparatus and frequently being opposed only by a poorly organized and ill informed medical establishment. This movement scored a number of quick and impressive victories. State legislators appeared singularly unimpressed by testimonies about scientific data and responsible drug testing procedures, and decisively moved by the highly emotional testimonials and packed galleries of the Littrell faithful. After Alaska's lead In the 1976-77 session, 13 additional states voted to legalize Latrell in 1977, and 78 and seven more followed a year later. The practical impact of these acts was minor because the drug was already widely available. The emotional impact, however, was considerable. Statewide legislation of Latrill, regardless of restrictions about the use or manufacture, implied that the drug did have some value and clearly tended to establish a precedent circumventing the standards of the Food and Drug act as they painstakingly evolved over 75, 5 years.

[Miles Gray]

Jesus.

[Robert Evans]

So basically you have this Food and Drug act. It gets stronger and stronger for a while. It really makes some massive changes, saves a ton of lives. And then the right wing, when they lose in court against it at the federal level, figures out, well, let's just cut the ground out from underneath it. If we can convince all these state legislators who are only concerned about getting reelection. Well, we were able to fill the gallery with all of these sick people and their families. And all the other side has is some doctors saying this is bad. Then you'll legalize it locally. And eventually people at higher levels, legislators, will realize like, oh, shit. Opposing this is dangerous. And that's how we do an end run around the actual doctors and the responsible judges. Right? Like, fuck em. We have a better way, you know?

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, we just show up in numbers and that'll. It's like the letter writing, you know what I mean? It's like they'll just see a mass of people and that's what we need.

[Robert Evans]

And the John Birch Society been doing stuff like this for a while, but it's the same shit you see with a lot of like, book banning stuff right today, like nra. This is like a lot of this being worked out. Right. Specifically in the medical sphere. And this is what's brought us to our present position of doom probably more than any other single chain of events. The good news I have is that local cases did not always go the way of the Littrell advocates. But this was cut by the reality that even when sanity won in court, people kept dying. And one of those people was a five year old named Chad Green. Per an article in Boston Local, Chad developed acute cystic leukemia at age 2 and began chemotherapy treatment at the University of Nebraska Medical center in Omaha, where the family originally lived. Chad's condition was improving and his leukemia was in remission. But when doctors recommended radiation, the Greens decided to move to Massachusetts, where Chad was placed in the care of Dr. John Truman, a pediatric cancer specialist at Massachusetts General Hospital. So, so far, so good. You know, they move, but to a real hospital. But by this point, by the time they get to Massachusetts, the Greens have been reached by the latrill advocates who were telling them, like, isn't that chemo hard on your kid? He didn't like it, right? You want to spare him some suffering? This is also a cure for cancer, but there's no side effects, right? So they start giving their kid Latril. And Dr. Truman is like, okay, guys, you ready to continue chemo? And they're like, no, we're actually not doing that. We got our own thing going on.

[Miles Gray]

Oh yeah, what are you doing?

[Robert Evans]

What?

[Ad]

What?

[Robert Evans]

So he goes to the courts, this doctor, and he gets. He basically is like, I think the parents need to be stopped. And the state of Massachusetts agrees. They order Chad to be made a ward of the court and they send an order to his parents that you have to take him to the hospital to start chemo now. Now the Greens are like, okay, well, can we do that and keep giving him latril? But part of what had tipped off this doctor is that he had early symptoms of cyanide poisoning.

[Miles Gray]

Oh, my God.

[Robert Evans]

And so the doctor's like, no, they're just giving him cyanide. Don't let them keep doing that. And so the judge is like, no, you can't continue to poison this child. So the Greens are like, the fuck we can't. And they flee to Mexico, where they start staying at Dr. Ernesto Contreras clinic. Now, legal threats continue to flow from across the border, but per time quote, they were getting financial support from the National Health Federation. That's that group founded by Bradford. This like group which also, by the way, was starting to oppose the fluoridation of water. And from private citizens who contend that the state has no business telling parents how to care for their children. With these contributions, the Greens hope to get by while they are in Mexico. There is such a loving atmosphere here at the clinic, says Gerald Greene. The doctor, after giving us the test results, tells us, we'll be praying with you. You just don't find that in the States. And that says so much about the psychology here of, like, I don't care as much if my kid lives as well as whether or not the doctor prayed with us. You know, that makes me feel better about it than some doctor who was saving his life actively. Yeah, he didn't pray with us.

[Miles Gray]

He was just too clinical.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, too clinical in a clinic. Can you believe it?

[Miles Gray]

Unbelievable.

[Robert Evans]

Several months after this, Chad dies, possibly from leukemia, which was untreated now. But also some of the evidence suggests that he dies of cyanide poisoning, which, given the cyanide, not a huge stretch. For his part, when Dr. Contreras is like, hey, so this kid died, Is this maybe evidence that you fucked up? Quantarius is like, no, no, no. Chad's death is proof that Littrell works. It didn't save him, but he died a really pleasant. You guys didn't see it, but he died like, a really good death. Fuck. He was super chill, thanks to Latrill. You know, he would have died a much worse death if it weren't for Latrill.

[Miles Gray]

Search YouTube right now. Most chill death compilations.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I got, like, a bunch of them over here. I take a video every time. No. And even his family didn't agree with this. Cause all they would tell the news is that at the end, he Was so sad to be away from his grandparents and his friends and his home. Like he was just lonely in a foreign. Not only did he die unnecessarily, but he died unnecessarily lonely in a strange foreign country. Oh my God, it's fucking bleak. And there's a lot of other horror stories of Latrill Miles. Many of them hinge around this growing idea embraced by right wing activists, that parents should be the only ones with the power to decide what happens to their kids. Right. This is the root of all of the whole fascist movement in this country, honestly, as far as I'm concerned, is the, the core, at least cornerstone of it is the idea that like, as a parent, you own your child and anything you say is right. Right. In Chad's case, the courts ruled consistently that parental rights did not extend to denying a child life saving treatment. But the other courts made different decisions. Per Quackwatch, Joseph hofbauer was a 9 year old with Hodgkin's disease. Unlike Chad Green's parents, Joseph's parents never allowed him to receive appropriate treatment, but insisted that he receive littril and metabolic therapy. When New York state authorities attempted to place him in protective custody, his parents filed suit and convinced family court judge Lauren Brown to let the parents make the treatment decision. Brown stated, this court also finds that metabolic therapy has a place in our society and hopefully its proponents are on the first rung of a ladder that will rid us of all forms of cancer. It's just another quack treatment. The parents rejected standard treatment and Joseph died of his disease two years later. Acute lymphocytic leukemia and Hodgkin's disease both have 95% 5 year survival rate rates with appropriate chemotherapy. So these are not kids who are gonna die anyway. These are kids who had very good odds until Latrill came into the picture. Now, perhaps the most famous Latrill death, which comes in 1980, is Steve McQueen, one of the great movie stars of his day. He'd been diagnosed with mesothelioma in 1979, and like all these other people, he traveled to Mexico to take Littrill. Now, his doctor was not Contreras, it was William Kelly, who was a dentist who'd had his license revoked in Texas.

[Miles Gray]

Perfect, perfect transition.

[Robert Evans]

Perfect transition being a dentist in Texas. Guess I'll cure cancer in Mexico.

[Miles Gray]

Yeah, I don't do mouth stuff anymore, but I moved to Mexico now and I'm an oncologist.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I'm the best doctor Steve McQueen can apparently afford. Like most littrelle patients. McQueen praised the efficacy of his treatment as a lifesaver and then died several months later in 1980. Yeah, and eventually Littrel fever faded in part because its most zealous advocates died off. Despite the fact that more than 70,000Americans had tried it. Only 93 case studies were ever submitted to the government to be evaluated. 26 of these weren't documented well enough to be useful. The remaining cases were ultimately sent to an expert panel after being blinded and compared to 68 random chemotherapy patients. And the panel showed that there were two cases of latril treated cases where people went into full remission and four where people went into partial remission. And in the remaining 62 cases, nothing at all happened. And also even the fact that there's like, well, there's six people who seem to see some benefit, but there was actually no attempt to verify that any of these patients existed. So this is just like a list that someone gave them saying these were people. So they couldn't even. These six people who apparently got better we couldn't verify as real people. Right. The reviewers concluded that they could make, quote, no definite conclusions supporting the anti cancer activity of Latrobe.

[Ad]

Cool.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And there's more studies after this. There's another one where like 220 physicians submit data on like 1,000 patients and there's no evidence that any of them benefited from taking latril. There's, you know, a couple of different studies all of which show the same thing. Right. Which is that no one has been cured or stabilized by latril. The median survival rate is less than five months after the start of therapy. For the people who lived longer than that, their tumors had gotten larger. Basically it did the same thing at best as no treatment. And a number of patients experienced side effects of cyanide toxicity. So yeah, eventually there's a bunch of these stories and demand falls. You know, there's a lot of lawsuits against the companies making it against Bradford. Most of these are thrown out of court, but it does damage to the brand. And today Latrill is still. That you can find. Mexican cancer clinics are still selling latrilla as vitamin B17. It's not completely gone, but it's like, you know, it's not top dog in the fake cancer cures anymore. And that's the story, Miles. Oh, well, my brother said. My brother said a patient asked him about B17 recently. Oh, good, great. My brother an oncologist, just doing, hey.

[Miles Gray]

Doing your own research is how you get there.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, apparently he said he gets asked about Ivermectin, like every day as, like, a cure for cancer, so.

[Miles Gray]

Well, that's their right.

[Robert Evans]

Sounds very frustrating.

[Miles Gray]

If it's freedom of choice, man. Freedom of choice. Freedom of poisons.

[Robert Evans]

Poisons.

[Miles Gray]

Freedom to be God to your children. And that's. Yeah, great. Well, I feel better. You know, I was just saying how much of a bummer I was going through. Some man.

[Robert Evans]

But now with everything, everything's fixed, I feel happy. Bibbidi bobbidi bastards. Bippity boppity bastards. Well, hey, you know what, Miles? Why don't you tell people something that'll cure their cancer?

[Miles Gray]

Well, I don't have a cure for cancer, but I do have a pill. It's a two for one. It cures male pattern baldness and impotence. It's called bone hair. And it's just once a day you take it and. I mean, some people. It works. I'm pretty. I think it works. I think it works. You know, the. The coroner's office is doing some lab work and they're gonna get back to me on some. A couple people who I think they were. I think they went OD with it or OD'd on it. I don't know. Anyway, forget that. If you like podcasts, you can also listen to me on the daily Zeitgeist or 420 Day Fiance. Find me there.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, find Miles there and find my exciting new cancer treatment, which is just do nothing and send me tens of thousands of dollars, you know, and through the power of my own positive thinking, I'll fix your shit. Wow.

[Miles Gray]

All right.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I got it, baby. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Basterds is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, YouTube.com BehindTheBastards.

[Ad]

Join IHeartRadio and Sarah Spain in celebrating the one year anniversary of IHeart Women's Sports. With powerful interviews and insider analysis, our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's Sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows and built a community united by passion Podcasts that amplify the.

[Robert Evans]

Voices of women in sports.

[Ad]

Thank you for supporting I heart women's sports and our founding sponsors, Elf Beauty, Capital One and Novartis.

Just open the free iHeart app and.

Search iHeart Women's Sports to listen.

Now, every case that is a cold.

[Miles Gray]

Case that has DNA right now in.

[Ad]

A backlog will be identified in our lifetime on the new podcast, America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell.

[Robert Evans]

And the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the.

[Ad]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Lithgow]

Hello, I'm John Lithgow.

[Robert Evans]

We choose to go to the moon.

[John Lithgow]

I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast. That's one small screen about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.

[Miles Gray]

You're a great pilot, Buzz.

[John Lithgow]

That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't. Buzz, starring me, John Lithgow, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ad]

A body, a suspect, and a hundred years of silence. Buried Bones is a podcast about the forgotten crimes history tried.

[John Lithgow]

A common misperception about serial predators is.

[Robert Evans]

That every single time they commit a.

[Miles Gray]

Crime, they commit it the same way.

[Ad]

The past is a way of talking.

[Robert Evans]

If you know what to listen for.

[John Lithgow]

New episodes every Wednesday on the exactly right network.

[Ad]

Listen to Buried bones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

This is an I heart podcast.