Part Two: Rebecca Felton: The First Female Senator (was also a pro-lynching activist)

Summary

Behind the Bastards | Rebecca Felton: The First Female Senator (and Pro-Lynching Activist), Part Two

Podcast: Behind the Bastards (Cool Zone Media & iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Brett
Guests: Samantha McVey (co-host of Stuff Mom Never Told You), Dennis, Rachel
Date: July 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the complex and deeply disturbing life of Rebecca Felton, the first woman to serve as a U.S. Senator—and an unabashed advocate of lynching. Picking up from the Civil War period, the hosts trace Felton’s personal hardships, her evolving political activism, and the virulent racism that defined her public career. The conversation examines how Felton’s experiences of loss and perceived betrayal informed her radicalization, her legacy in ending convict leasing, and her lasting damage as a propagandist for white supremacist violence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Feltons During & After the Civil War

[03:04]

• Rebecca’s family wealth devastated as the war unfolds: fine belongings destroyed, forced to leave their home, and slaves freed.
• Felton’s own words:

  "Desolation and destruction everywhere. Bitter, grinding poverty. Slaves all gone. Money also. We certainly paid the price while we were in refugee condition." —Rebecca Felton (04:01)

• The family, once affluent, is now faced with “actually living like poor people.”

[04:24]

• Disease sweeps through postwar South, killing Rebecca’s children and several enslaved people.
• Confederate soldiers loot her farm, deepening her sense of betrayal by Southern white men.

Trauma, Rape, and the Mythos of Southern Womanhood

[06:00]

• The war years stoke profound fears among elite Southern women of sexual violence—stoked by Confederate propaganda targeting Union and especially black soldiers.
• Felton writes:

  "...helpless women have been exposed to the most cruel outrages and to that dishonor which is infinitely worse than death." (06:44)

[07:00]

• Actual experience: Union soldiers do not harm Felton but do rape the women she enslaved.
• Critical discussion of the shifting (and still deeply racist) legal landscape after emancipation, where black women could technically press charges for rape for the first time in American law.

[09:40]

• Reference to Union court martials and unprecedented allowance in the U.S. military for black women to testify against white assailants.
• Quote:

  "This was an extremely progressive policy to establish, and it was sanctioned at the highest levels..." (09:18)

Southern Women’s Rage and Shifting Roles

[10:55]

• Rebecca blames white Southern men for failing to protect women:

  "Elite women were exposed to forces that had long molded the lives of most Southern women—a change in fortune Felton was eager to reverse." (11:21, quoting Lauren Maloney via Smithsonian)

• Southern white women took up arms, “unsexing themselves,” and resented men for failing to uphold patriarchal promises.

[13:12]

• The compounded trauma of loss:

  “At age 30, she has had five children and they have all died. She has lost her house, her money. Things are not well.” (13:12)

Rise of a Power Couple & Political Influence

[14:17]

• The Feltons reenter political life; William Felton, her husband, is elected to Congress by small farmers, with Rebecca as his campaign manager and speechwriter.
• “She grows more and more confident over these years in the idea that women ought to be able to have a say in the affairs of the nation.” (14:47)

Activism: Prohibition, Prison Reform, and Convict Leasing

[17:29]

• After politics, Rebecca pivots to activism: prohibition (to protect women from drunken male violence) and, notably, against Georgia’s convict leasing system—a post-slavery system of forced labor for black prisoners.
• Quote:

  “[Convict leasing] is just slavery with extra steps.” (18:31)

[19:44]

• The system’s brutality leads Felton to activism, but hosts question whether her hatred of elite planters, rather than anti-racism, motivated her.

[24:40]

• Rebecca is credited with helping to end convict leasing via relentless organizing. The hosts offer a “qualified thumbs up” for this, acknowledging her complex motivations.

The Turn to Lynch Law & White Supremacist Propaganda

[25:10]

• Felton becomes a vocal defender of lynching, positioning it as protection for white women and framing black men as the ultimate threat.

• Quote:

  “If white men couldn't protect women's dearest possession from the ravening human beasts, Felton said, then I say lynch a thousand times a week if necessary.” (28:48)

• Contrast with Ida B. Wells, who exposed the economic and false-accusation roots of lynching and refuted the rape-justification myth.

The Wilmington Coup: Violence Ignited

[32:34]

• The 1898 Wilmington, NC, massacre is discussed as a direct consequence of fear-mongering like Felton’s, which stoked white violence at black progress.
• Black and white populists had begun to unify politically (“fusion”), but white authorities used Felton’s rhetoric to justify a coup.
• White supremacists, led by figures like Alfred Moore Waddell, violently overthrew the integrated city government, burned businesses, and may have killed up to 300 black residents (40:00).

[41:00]

• Felton openly celebrated the massacre and continued her advocacy for lynching well into the 20th century.

The First Woman Senator: Symbol Over Substance

[43:30]

• Felton is appointed to the Senate for a single day in 1922—largely as a political stunt by the governor of Georgia seeking the women's vote.

[44:24]

• She addresses the Senate to thunderous applause but her feminism is deeply exclusionary, advocating "white women should use their vote to maintain white power and supremacy.” (44:58)

Reflecting on Felton’s Legacy

[46:03]

• Hosts grapple with the contradictions: Felton was both a "belligerent feminist" and a committed white supremacist.

• Quote:

  “Why did she get so many things wrong when foundationally she had so many things right?” —Dennis (46:41)

• On the limits of her politics: “She’s smart and observant enough that she can’t not see who the real fault lies with...But once the white men are gone, she also is going to look and blame at...black men.” —Brett (47:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On her postwar bitterness:

  “They didn’t just throw away the slaves and money and houses. They threw away her kids, as she sees it.” —Brett (13:06)

• On convict leasing:

  “This was just even more direct where you’re just renting out...these people who have to work for you.” —Brett (19:23)

• On lynching:

  “If white men couldn’t protect women’s dearest possession from the ravening human beasts, Felton said, then I say lynch a thousand times a week if necessary.” —Brett quoting Felton (28:48)

• On the Wilmington massacre:

  “Felton herself celebrated the massacre afterwards telling a journalist the slanderer Manly should be made to fear a reaper's rope rather than occupy a place in New York skyscrapers.” —Brett (41:04)

• On Felton’s complex social politics:

  “She’s smart and observant enough that she can’t not see who the real fault lies with. She knows it’s the white men...But once the white men are gone, she also is going to look and blame...black men...” —Brett (47:02)

• On being the first female senator:

  “She gets inaugurated as a Senate gallery, and there’s just tons of women watching. There’s thunderous applause...” —Brett (43:30)
  “But it’s a long time before that possibility exists for a black woman.” —Brett (44:56)

• Hosts’ concluding thoughts:

  “I feel like it was a bad day for me to wear my root for women shirt.” —Dennis (46:21)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Civil War trauma and gendered panic: 03:04 – 09:40
• Felton’s turn against Southern men: 10:55 – 12:23
• Political partnership and activism: 14:15 – 19:44
• Fight against convict leasing: 19:44 – 24:40
• Transition to pro-lynching advocacy: 25:10 – 30:36
• Wilmington coup & massacre: 32:34 – 41:04
• Felton as first female senator: 43:30 – 44:56
• Reflection on Felton’s contradictions: 46:03 – 48:35

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Tone and Takeaways

The hosts maintain their trademark blend of dark humor and analytical depth, providing a nuanced portrait of Rebecca Felton. They do not shy away from her monstrous advocacy and racist activism, yet also analyze the traumas and social changes that created her worldview. The conversation raises uncomfortable truths about the legacies of white feminism, rage, and historical memory in the U.S.

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Summary prepared for those seeking a thorough understanding of Rebecca Felton’s life, activism, and the deep contradictions of her legacy—as well as the broader social forces she both fought and embodied.

Transcript

[Dennis]

Call Zone Media.

[Brett]

Welcome back to behind the Bastards, the podcast that you're currently listening to about our first female senator. Technically, Rebecca Felton, who, when we ended part one, just did the whole Scarlett o' Hara thing, standing in the ruins of the home that she loved. Right. We actually have a little bit more of the war years to talk about here, but we'll get through all of that. But first, our guest, Samantha McVey. Sam, you want to plug your pluggables up at the top?

[Samantha McVey]

Yes. I am the host, one of the hosts of Stuff Mom Never Told you'd. Also part of the I Heart Network. We have a book, Stuff Mom Never Told you'd. We have an account on Instagram and bluesky. I believe it says Mom Stuff.

[Rachel]

Sweet.

[Samantha McVey]

Excellent. Unlike what the title says, we don't talk about moms or mom stuff.

[Brett]

That's good. Just so you know, it's not my strong suit either.

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[Brett]

So, yeah, let's get into the Civil War, right? Anyway, the war years initially spared the first Felton plantation, right?

[Samantha McVey]

Right.

[Brett]

It quickly, though, turned out that the flower of Southern manhood was somewhat less suited to warfare than they had anticipated. And so, in short order, the Feltons were ripping up their fine clothing and carpets to make uniforms and cold weather gear. Eventually, they fled ahead of the Union army to a shack near Macon. Rebecca later wrote this of her feelings upon leaving the home that she had built and buried the first of her children at. When I reached the gate, I picked up the springs that had been a part of my dead child's fine baby carriage. Also the arm of a large parlor mahogany chair that had also been burned. Desolation and destruction everywhere. Bitter, grinding poverty. Slaves all gone. Money also. We certainly paid the price while we were in refugee condition, right? So very soon she loses almost everything. The slaves aren't actually gone. She leaves behind like 15 of them to manage her, her, her farm and Decatur. But they're not going to have like a lot of people around them past this point for the war years. They're kind of like actually now living like poor people, right? The, the, they're, they're, they're, their circumstances changed immediately. Right? As did a lot of very wealthy families.

[Samantha McVey]

Okay, so this reminds me of the scene with Scarlet o' Hara going, I'll never go hungry again. I know way too much about this book and movie.

[Brett]

We haven't yet hit that point, but we will, we will soon. So the fact that they've moved to Macon does not protect them. The war brings disease, which hits the Felton family like a machine gun. After the fall of Atlanta, a measles epidemic ravages the state and it kills her 5 year old son and 6 of the people that she still owned. Not long after, their farm was ransacked by Confederate soldiers fleeing their defeat at the hands of General Sherman. Rebecca was enraged. She saw this as evidence of the mass failure of Southern manhood warriors who had been so boastful before now looting their own people as they fled in despair. And as this is happening, there's a terrible fear building among elite white women of rape. Right. At the hands of Union soldiers, at the hands of Confederate soldiers, and at the hands of newly freed or escaped slaves. Right. There's a lot of the. And these panic are being stalked by the Confederate media, who's saying that, like, well, if the lines fail, if the Union gets here, here's what'll happen to all your women. Right? They are being told that, too. This isn't just something that they're making up now. Late in the war, Union soldiers occupy and raid Rebecca's Macon property. And while the Feltons get by without being subjected to any physical harm themselves, not all of the people on the farm are so lucky. If you ask a body of soldiers to occupy an enemy farm or town or whatever, some of them are going to rape the civilians there. No military in history has ever occupied a defeated enemy and avoided this. In fact, US Soldiers on bases in Japan today commit rape on locals regularly enough that it is a well known type of news item in Okinawa. Right? This happens, like, every year there. Sometimes more than once a year.

[Samantha McVey]

Like South Korea, too.

[Brett]

It's.

[Samantha McVey]

It's.

[Brett]

Yeah, South Korea. It's. Why it's. Again, be real careful when you put soldiers places, because this happens. This is. This is just a side effect. Now, this whole of Southern womanhood recoiled at stories of wealthy plantation ladies being raped by white or black soldiers, with stories, true and false, of the latter spreading particularly rapidly. In late 1863, as Union soldiers neared Cartersville, Confederate propaganda warned civilians about widespread atrocities, particularly those that would surely be committed by black soldiers. Rebecca wrote, the conduct of the enemy has been destitute of that forbearance and magnanimity which civilization and Christianity have introduced. Clothing of women and infants is stripped from their persons. Helpless women have been exposed to the most cruel outrages and to that dishonor which is infinitely worse than death. That's how she's referring to rape is. It's worse than death. It's like worse than murder because that's your only valuable asset as a woman.

[Troy Mealings]

Right.

[Samantha McVey]

Obviously, it's okay when it happens to the enslaved, but. Oh, my God, it's not okay. But it's still white women.

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Samantha McVey]

Yeah, it's definitely.

[Brett]

Yeah. So this is before she'd even had a lot of real contact with enemy soldiers, certainly before her farm was plundered. So we can see this is her mostly repeating things other people had told her. And again, when she's actually captured and actually exposed to the Union army, she's never harmed herself, but she is forced to stand by while Union troops rape some of the women that she had previously owned. They do that right. Now, here's a reality we don't talk about at the end of the Civil War often enough, which is that there were a ton of rapes by Union soldiers. The reality is that the vast majority of the women in the Confederacy who were raped after the war are, were black. Rich white women still enjoyed higher status than formerly enslaved black women. And even General Sherman made occasional efforts to protect specific southern ladies he knew and admired. Meanwhile, newly freed black women rarely enjoyed powerful patrons. However, they did take advantage of one benefit that was new to them, the right to press charges against their assailants. Now, that doesn't sound like much to modern ears when we're talking about a bunch of women who have been raped by soldiers in a fucking war zone. Necessarily right, that maybe not sound like much consolation. And we all know how flawed the legal system is and how particularly bad it is at gaining justice today for rape victims. But you have to remember something, which is that prior to emancipation, there was no law at all that said these women had a right to say no. So there is something important in the horror of all of these post war rapes, because this cannot have been the first time many of those women were raped. Rebecca herself writes about how common it was for white masters to do that, but it was the first time any of these women had the ability to report their rape to someone and actually see the rapist punished. And as is always the case, we must assume that the majority, almost surely the vast majority, of such rapes went unreported and thus unpunished. But by this end of the civil war, more than 400 Union soldiers had been court martialed after committing sexual crimes. Their victims included both white and black women and both women and girls. And the youngest was five. I want to quote now. Yeah, I want to quote now from an article in the European Journal of American Studies by Susan Barber and Charles Ritter. Procedurally, union judge advocates, the men who prosecuted cases before the courts martial were instructed to follow the law in the state where the crime took place. Since most of the crimes occurred in southern territory, this meant that black women could be prohibited from bringing sexual assault charges against a white assailant and barred from testifying against him in court. Since this was the law in all southern states, however, US Court martial panels never prevented blacks from testifying against whites or blacks on the basis of race, thus giving black women for the first time a legal voice with which to accuse white women of sexual violation. This was an extremely progressive policy to establish, and it was sanctioned at the highest levels of the United States government. And this is another really interesting story that we don't tell enough. In her book Southern Horror, Crystal Feimster relates the story of Lieutenant Andrew Smith of the 11th Pennsylvania Cavalry, who raped a young black girl. General Benjamin Butler, who read the verdict when he went to court, summarized the case with an admirable degree of rage. A female Negro child quits slavery and comes into the protection of the federal government, and upon first reaching the limits of the federal lines, receives the brutal treatment from an officer himself, a husband and a father, a violation of her person. He sentenced Smith to 10 years hard labor and said the man was lucky not to be executed. After Macon was captured, the war was over for the Feltons. Rebecca declared, I can run no further. I have nowhere to go. The people she and her husband owned counted for most of her property, and without them, she was nearly broke. With just enough props left in the field to survive the winter. Southern defeat had been so total, so humbling, that Rebecca reacted to it in an undeniably appropriate way by blaming all of the men in her society. And it was totally her fault. Southern women didn't vote. Like, say what you will about how morally complicit they are, they didn't have a choice in the secession, really.

[Samantha McVey]

Right, right. She knew all along. She said she.

[Brett]

Yeah. And the way Rebecca saw it, they'd broken the social contract. I want to quote from a piece in the Smithsonian magazine by Lauren Maloney. According to historian Leanne Whites, Felton believed upper class women had kept their end of the antebellum gender bargain by mining their place in society, while their husbands had broken theirs. By refusing to compromise on slavery and engineering secession, these men had triggered a series of events that would forever undermine their ability to offer protection to their dependents. Rights, whites and matters. Civil War, Reconstruction, and the making of the new South. As a result, elite women were exposed to forces that had long molded the lives of most Southern women. A change in fortune Felton was eager to reverse. And yeah, I think that's a really fascinating way to look at it for her. Like, kind of running into some of the right ideas for the completely wrong reason. Right, yeah. In her own book, Feimster points out something I think is worth adding. Southern men, especially the planter elite, Felton argued, had put the profit of slavery before the protection of Southern womanhood. Whereas elite white women had held up their end to the bargain to the point of unsexing themselves, Southern manhood had failed miserably. White women all over the south had been left unprotected, and some had even suffered rape. And when she talks about unsexing themselves, once the men go away, the women running these plantations start carrying guns and weapons they're not supposed to. They think it's gross, it's uncomfortable to them. They're unsexing themselves. And we did it to help the war effort, and you still couldn't beat the fucking North.

[Samantha McVey]

We did our part and you failed. How dare you?

[Brett]

And a bunch of us got raped. Right? That's. That is this. This rage is going to. Is going to, like, directly fuel a big chunk of the post Reconstruction lynching epidemic. This is where a lot of it starts. And a lot of these, like, rich white women and these men who feel also really angry and furious at themselves for not having been able to stop Eddie. I mean, not at themselves. They. They blame a specific group of people. A lot of anger is building here, and that's going to get let out very soon. Immediately after the south lost and the Civil War ended, a wave of malaria hit Georgia. And it touched the Felton family particularly hard. It killed the last of her five born children, leaving her with only a stepdaughter and her husband. She was 30 years old. So at age 30, she has had five children and they have all died. She has lost her houses, calling for money. Things are not well. She is.

[Dennis]

Peoples.

[Samantha McVey]

Oliver Peoples. Okay, Oliver. All right.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah. And her husband, you know, goes back to work after the war. She has to get a job after the war, and they slowly struggle to rebuild their lives. And as she is like, working and finding ways to make money for the first time and try helping to support her family, she gets angrier and angrier at these planters who had thrown not just their wealth, but their children, her children, away for nothing. Right? They didn't just throw away the slaves and the money in the houses. They threw away her kids, as she sees it, right, and she's not wrong to see it that way. Despite the dire circumstances after the war, the Feltons slowly but surely began to thrive in the newly Reunited States. In 1784, William Felton ran for Congress and was elected as a Democrat. He would be reelected twice. His constituents were the small farmers he called neighbor, and his campaign manager was Rebecca Felton. Her hatred of Southern elite men did not extend to her husband, who had, like, her thought the war a terrible idea and who generally genuinely respected her ideas. Right.

[Dennis]

That's amazing. She's like, hey, fuck white men. But not my husband.

[Samantha McVey]

Not all men.

[Brett]

Not my husband.

[Samantha McVey]

Not all men. It's not all men, Sophie.

[Brett]

No, not all men. It's not all men. No, because she has a good relationship with her husband, and I think he respects her mind. He lets her do stuff.

[Samantha McVey]

She lets her keep her opinions.

[Brett]

Yeah, he lets her. They become kind of a power couple after this, right? Rebecca and William kind of defy the odds and seem to have been a perfect. This might be the most functional relationship we've ever covered on behind the Basterds.

[Samantha McVey]

They support each other. We love a good, supportive couple.

[Brett]

They really do. Rebecca travels with her husband to D.C. and access his secretary. She also writes his speeches for him. And over time, she gets to consult and help draft actual legislation. So she's actually helping to write laws because her husband's in Congress. She grows more and more confident over these years in the idea that women ought to be able to have a say in the affairs of the nation. And her involvement did not go unnoticed. Per the Smithsonian magazine, after William won his third campaign, one newspaper announced Mrs. Felton and Dr. Reappointed. They're doing that founder of Reddit and Serena Williams thing or whatever. Oh, yeah, yeah. Mr. Felton. Mrs. Felton and Dr. Reelected.

[Samantha McVey]

Yeah, I like it.

[Brett]

William's opponents attacked his wife's involvement after she appeared in an 1876 rally. An editor dubbed her attendance a disgusting spectacle. Her promotion of a prison reform bill in 1887 caused one legislator to christen her the political she of Georgia, a reference to the sorceress queen who dominates men. In h. Ryder Haggard's 1886 novel, she, Misogyny haunted her even in death. In his 1960 biography of Felton, historian John Talmage described her as a belligerent feminist, though he admitted he wouldn't dare to write a word about her if she were still living.

[Samantha McVey]

You gotta respect that.

[Brett]

You gotta respect that look.

[Samantha McVey]

That's iconic.

[Brett]

I wouldn't talk shit if she was still alive, though.

[Dennis]

She scares me, Dennis.

[Samantha McVey]

Hot.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Brett]

Belligerent feminist hot, right?

[Samantha McVey]

You know what?

[Brett]

It's not going to be quite as hot as you're thinking.

[Dennis]

Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no. She sucks. She sucks.

[Brett]

Parts of it are going to be good, parts of it are but being scary.

[Dennis]

But women be scary. Yes.

[Brett]

She's undeniably got some mojo. So the whole time her husband's in Congress. William was engaging with American politics and culture pretty much the only way a woman could while still maintaining any degree of agency. She wrote, if you wanted to influence the culture, that was your way as a woman in this period of time. You know, get you a pamphlet, fiction letters in magazine articles, whatnot. She puts out hundreds and hundreds of letters to the editor and articles and magazines. She's. She's writing every day columns on the issues of the day and just sending them off. And she attracts a fan base and launches a newspaper with her husband. After William loses his fourth reelection campaign, Rebecca joins the Women's Christian Temperance Union and starts campaigning on her own for Prohibition. She'd made the choice not to become a drinker as a girl, perhaps spurred on by scary memories of drunken Southern men. She saw prohibition, like many did, as a way to protect women and women of all races. Right. Drunkenness is the enemy of women because all these men are getting hammered at bars and they're coming back and they're beating the shit out of us and doing other terrible things. They're not able to work, they're not able to take care of their families. That's the attitude of a lot of these prohibitionists. And Felton is a prohibitionist because she sees alcohol as harming women. Right.

[Dennis]

I'm seeing a lot of parallels between this power couple and, like, meatball Ron, Ron DeSantis and his wife Casey, because. Yeah, because, like, you know, Casey was such a big part of his campaign and part of his career, and she was like an ex journalist. It's really interesting.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah, you get. You get these power. And she. This is kind of going in the reverse direction where once his political career fades out, Rebecca gets more famous, actually. Right. So she's, you know, getting to be an activist. She likes her early activism in favor of prohibition. She enjoys organizing people. She's good at it. So she finds another issue to fight for and decides she's going to become an activist, pushing for reform of Georgia's convict leasing system. Now, thankfully, this is not around still, but it existed much longer than it should have. George's convict leasing system was a particularly hideous bit of post war fuckery by rich white. In order to replace lost slave labor without paying, Georgians pioneered using prison labor to recreate the good old days from the New Georgia Encyclopedia. Some Georgians saw the prisoners at the state's penitentiary in Milledgeville as the solution to their problems, a workforce that could be formally controlled. Georgia leaders were also concerned about costs associated with operating A penitentiary. As the prison population increased and included many more African Americans. In an effort to resolve these issues, officials during reconstruction 1867-76, approved the leasing of prisoners to private citizens. Of course. And so, like, this is just slavery with extra steps. Right, Right. The old prison, I mean, it's kind

[Samantha McVey]

of still happening today.

[Brett]

We do have a version of labor

[Samantha McVey]

that comes from prison. Yeah, yeah.

[Brett]

This was just even more direct where you're just. You're just renting them, like, renting out. You're just getting handed these people who have to work for you. And the old evils reasserted themselves at once. Although it was agreed that the convicts would be treated humanely, reports to then governor Rufus Bullock indicated that least convicts were being overworked, brutally whipped, and kill. So that's great.

[Samantha McVey]

So I'm assuming this leads to the chain gang type of narrative.

[Brett]

Yes. Chain gangs are a descendant from this. And the reason why the convict leasing system comes to an end and it gets replaced by the chain gang system has a lot to do with Rebecca Felton. Because this system is such an abomination. Rebecca was correct to battle against it. Felton had once considered slavery justified by God, and she was still a huge racist. So perhaps she fought so hard against this system, not because it was right to do so, but because she hated the rich white planters that benefited from it more than anything, even more than she was racist. I kind of wonder that, like, was it all that this is unjust, or was it just that, like, no, fuck you guys. I lost everything. You don't get to sneak your way into having it back.

[Samantha McVey]

How dare you start over and do that again.

[Brett]

Yeah, how dare you fucking try again. After all you put my family and I through. Absolutely not. Yeah, maybe I'm not giving Rebecca enough credit here, but I have to kind of wonder how much of the case that was. And you know what else I have to wonder, Samantha?

[Samantha McVey]

What?

[Brett]

Whether or not the products and services that support this podcast are involved in human trafficking.

[Dennis]

How collaborative.

[Brett]

No way to know. This ad is brought to you by VEIV Healthcare, the makers of Dovato Dolutegravir lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Dovato. Dovato is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Devato is right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Dovato is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Dovato.

[Ad Voice]

It is unknown if Dovato is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B. If you have Hep B. Don't stop Dovato without talking to your doctor as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide due to serious or life threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop Dovato and get medical help right away. Other serious or life threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding or planned pregnancy.

[Brett]

Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devato.com or call 1-877-844-8872. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now. I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment

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[Brett]

network is busy see Terms hey, it's Rach.

[Rachel]

And if you're like me, you want treats that are simple and taste amazing. And that's why I love Johnny Pops. They're deliciously made with simple ingredients and no artificial dyes. Whether it's a quick snack for the kids or a sweet moment for yourself, Johnny Pops are the perfect treat. And there's a kind deed on every stick to encourage everyone to share a little kindness. So next time you're in the freezer aisle, grab a box of Johnny Pops and feel great about what you're sharing. Johnny Pops A Better Pop for a

[Brett]

Better World this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma Report surveyed 2,000Americans and revealed that 85 of Americans believe getting support is wise, yet 74% say society discourages people from doing so. There's a gap between believing in mental health and actually seeking it. And if you personally are looking at closing that gap, BetterHelp is an option you might want to consider. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform having served over 6 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recs. So don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with BetterHelp. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] behind. That's betterhelp.com behind. And we're back. So Rebecca's becoming a big activist now. She's trying to get rid of this convict leasing system. She galvanizes the Women's Christian Temperance Union against this horror and she whips up support via petitions and articles. She gets thousands of women engaged involved in protesting this. And she plies all of her political connection and plays a central role in launching a crusade to abolish convict leasing. Now, the end doesn't come rapidly, but as time goes on, a mix of changing economic conditions and relentless media attention by Rebecca and other activists builds support for legislation that abolishes convict leasing in 1908.

[Dennis]

Right.

[Brett]

And obviously again, the chain gang system kind of proceeds from this, you know, and there's an argument that they really mostly stopped because it wasn't economically viable anymore. But we'll give, we'll give Felton like a qualified thumbs up for that piece of activism, right? It's still the right fight.

[Samantha McVey]

Yeah, sure, I mean, it was helpful, but for why? Why?

[Brett]

And it would also prove to be her last entirely good turn. On August 11, 1897, Rebecca gave a speech in Savannah on the struggles poor white women faced on farms. These included rape, she insisted, and pointed out that just last week, three black men had been lynched after being accused of rape. This had become increasingly common after the war as a reaction to the freedom of black men and fears of violation that had rooted in the south since the war's end. Rebecca traced lynching back to slavery, and she was right on that. But she also saw lynching as justified because she viewed black male rapists as a plague. Now, in 1892, journalist Ida B. Wells Barnett had published an investigation into lynching called Southern lynch law in all its phases. Wells points out that less than a third of lynching victims were ever actually accused of rape. Regardless of what the mob said, most lynchings were complete farces of justice often carried on with economic motivations. And this is a long quote from Ida B. Wells, but I think it's really worth reading. And this is her kind of making the case against lynching, making any sort of sense. On March 9, 1892 there were lynched in this same city. And she's talking about Memphis. Three of the best specimens of young since the war. Afro American manhood. They were peaceful law abiding citizens and energetic businessmen. They believed the problem was to be solved by eschewing politics and putting money in the purse. They owned a flourishing grocery business in a thickly populated suburb of Memphis and a white man named Barrett had one on the opposite corner. After a personal difficulty which Barrett sought by going to into the people's Grocery, drawing out a pistol and was thrashed by Calvin McDowell. He Barrett threatened to clean them out. These men were a mile beyond the city limits and police protection. Hearing that Barrett's crowd was coming back to attack them Saturday night, they mustered forces and prepared to defend themselves against the attack. When Barrett came came, he led a posse of officers, 12 in number, who afterwards claimed to be hunting a man for whom they had a warrant. That 12 in citizens clothes should should think it was necessary to go into the night to hunt. One man who had never before been arrested or made any record as a criminal has never been explained. When they entered the back door the young men thought the threatened attack was on and fired into them. Three of the officers were wounded and when the defending party found it was officers of the law upon which they had fired, they ceased and got away. 31 men were jailed and thrown in jail as conspirators. Although they were all declared more than once that they did not know in they were firing on officer. Excitement was at a fever beat until the morning papers two days later announced that the wounded deputy sheriffs were out of danger. This hindered rather than help the plans of the whites. There was no law on the statute books which would execute an Afro American for wounding a white man. But the unwritten law did. Three of these men, the president, the manager and clerk of the grocery, the leaders of the conspiracy, were secretly taken from jail and lynched in a shockingly brutal manner. The negroes are getting too independent. They say we must teach them a lesson. Right. And that Ida B. Wells is pointing out the real motivation for lynching. Isn't there's all these crimes that have to be stopped. White women are in danger. No, it's some guy wants something a black man has or a black family has and just screaming rape and then murdering them or dragging them out of a jail and murdering them. Way easier than anything else. Right. By far the best move to go to. You know, that's what this is all about. Rebecca Felton doesn't agree with that, though. She thinks she knows what better than Ida B. Wells. Because Rebecca is terrified constantly of being assaulted like many women of her station, because they've got fucking ptsd, both from being assaulted and from having to have armed themselves during the war and constantly live in fear of being raped or violated. Right. This is part of why rape worked so well as an excuse for lynch mobs. Confederate propaganda had drilled people's heads full of stories of free black Union soldiers committing wanton rape in places like Memphis and Macon. No woman like Rebecca would doubt a cry of rape aimed at a free black man. As that piece in the Smithsonian explains it, Felton blamed the lynchings on Democratic politicians who plied black men with liquor at the polls, as well as on the failure of religion and the courts to prevent crime and deliver justice. If white men couldn't protect women's dearest possession from the ravening human beasts, Felton said, then I say lynch a thousand times a week if necessary. That is the key. Rebecca, quote. Yep, because white men are not protecting us from being raped, and we're mostly being raped by white men. We need to have lynch mobs go out and kill these people. That's where she lines on. And you can see how her previous life led her here. Right.

[Samantha McVey]

So is she assuming, like, she's just ignoring the fact that a chunk of the PTSD came from white men? Like, I know she's mad at them. So she's black. She can go. Yeah. So she just has to lash out to men.

[Brett]

Right.

[Samantha McVey]

And she knows she's fighting against white men, so might as well do this.

[Brett]

And she's angry at all of them. But only one type of man is going to face lethal consequences for her anger. When Rebecca. She's cool. Oh, she's so cool with it now. When Rebecca had railed against drunkenness and spousal violence and convict leasing and argued in favor of the vote for women, she had attracted a following. As a pro lynching advocate, she drew an even more dedicated following because feeding fear and anger is one of the fastest ways to get famous, especially if the fear you stir is against A subject your society already despises.

[Dennis]

It's just like a pro lynching advocate is such an insane thing to be. That is. Yeah, what?

[Brett]

Lynch forever. That's the Rebecca Felton attitude.

[Samantha McVey]

Thousand a week.

[Brett]

So this all comes to a terrible Head in 1898 in the port of Wilmington, North Carolina. Wilmington was one of those communities where after the war, black people had been enormously successful in creating businesses and jobs for themselves. Right. Think about black Wall street in. I think it was somewhere in Oklahoma. Since Wilmington was mostly black and they could vote now, they also started getting elected to local government and came to dominate it, in fact, which enraged some of the white citizens. So most people in this town are. They're starting to organize and they're starting to win election and take over local government because they make up the majority of people now. They are not hostile to the white community and not all of the white community is hostile to them. In fact, there's a chunk that they're organizing with because the black community in Wilmington has no beef with their neighbors. In fact, white and black working class populists in Wilmington had created a new political movement that they called fusion. Right. It's one of those fascinating, really hopeful stories in the post war period that has a tragic end. But the fusion movement in Willington is a really interesting case. And I want to quote from an article in Humanities, the magazine for the National Endowment for the Humanities, by janine lattice in 2025. Here's how she explains the fusion movement. White populists and black and white Republicans formed joint electoral tickets on shared priorities. Black men served on the board of aldermen as city treasurer, city jailer and city coroner. 10 of Wilmington's 26 police were black. So they're not. Just because most people in town are black taking up all of the, winning most of the elections. They built an electoral compromise with poor whites and they are getting elected based on shared priorities. Right. It's exactly what politics ought to be, you know.

[Samantha McVey]

So did they call it fusion? Cause that's like such a contemporary word to me. That's interesting. Yeah.

[Brett]

That's the term that Lattice uses for it. And that's the only term I've heard used for it. So I have to assume you can hear some writing about it. I think that's, that's just like. Yeah, I love that they wouldn't have meant it in the nuclear sense, obviously.

[Samantha McVey]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[Brett]

And it's a fucking amazing story. Right. But obviously, because this is a Reconstruction era story, we also know it's going to end badly. And Rebecca's a big part of why. But the short story is that while things are going pretty well for most people there, there's a bunch of rich and formerly rich white men who were like, wait a second. I have to listen to a black man. Now we don't have all the power. Let's do a coup d', etat, right? Let's coup this out. So they start practicing to form mobs with the goal of forcing black officials out of office and making anyone with any wealth and power leave in order to break the black community's back so that they can rule the ashes. They start doing this in the summer of 1898. The inciting incident is a speech that Rebecca Felton gives earlier that year in which she attacks white men for failing to stop, quote, the black beast rapist. She expressly argues that lynching is necessary to protect white women, and it was up to those failed white men to found their courage and do it. If it needs lynching to protect women's dear possession from the ravening human beasts, then I say lynch. Right? This is. This is where that comes from. Now her words are reprinted, as they often were, all over white supremacist newspapers that had started popping up in Wilmington to fight back. Alex Manley, the editor of the city's most influential black paper, the Daily Record, published an article and wrote the Black Beast rapist. You mean all the white people raping black women? Basically, like, that's a big part of his article is that, like, you're talking about, like, rapists, Like, y'. All, like, the rape is coming from one direction here, right? You're the real rapist, right? Like, that's kind of manly starting point. But he also addresses Felton directly. Quote, a Felton from Georgia makes a speech before the agricultural Society at Tybee, Georgia, in which she advocates lynching as an extreme measure. This woman makes a strong plea for womanhood. And if the alleged crimes of rape were half so frequent as is ofttimes reported, her plea would be worthy of consideration. Mrs. Felton begins well, for she admits that education will better protect the girls on the farm from the assaulter. This we admit, and it should not be confined to the white any more than to the colored girls. The papers are also filled, often with reports of rapes of white women and subsequent lynchings of the alleged rapists. The editors pour volumes of aspersions against all negroes because of the few who may be guilty. If the papers and speakers of the other race would condemn the condition of crime because it is crime and not try to make it appear that the Negroes were the only criminals. They would find their strongest allies in the intelligent Negroes themselves. And together, the whites and blacks would root out the evil of both races. So Manly is saying, hey, instead of just, like, blaming us for all of this, when we know you're doing the most of the rape of, like, your men, what if we all get together as a community to stop all of the rapists in our mix, you know, white and black. Cause rape's just like a problem that we have as a society and we should deal with it together.

[Samantha McVey]

Right?

[Brett]

He's a very reasonable guy, this Manly. This drives people insane. Among other things. He's just said that, like, hey, it's fine if white and black people have sex and it's not rape. And he's also saying that, like, what if we work together to fix this problem? That is clearly something we both have, that is all so offensive to these white supremacists. Yeah, yeah.

[Samantha McVey]

He already said all the things to work with. How dare you?

[Brett]

Yeah, how fucking dare you? Yeah. So this drives people crazy, as Janine Lattice writes. His editorial was reprinted throughout the south, further enraging the white elite with threats against. And threats against Manly's life poured in. All that summer, Rebecca Felton continued to beat the drum about the necessity of lynching to protect white women from black rapists. She gave speech after speech and wrote her customary blizzard of articles, contributed to an already feverish pace of white supremacist press on the same subject. So the business leaders, the white leaders of Wilmington, had their own paper, News and Observer, which they used to print a bunch of white supremacist propaganda. They also started buying up and hoarding a shitload of guns. They started making calls to burn barns. They started bringing in racists from surrounding states, particularly a bunch of racists from South Carolina who called themselves red shirts. These guys would pull black men out of their homes, torture them, threaten to kill them, do anything they could to stop them from voting, and basically say, hey, you need to get the fuck out of town if you want to be safe. On November 7th, at the county courthouse, Confederate Civil War veteran Alfred Moore Waddell gave an incendiary speech. Men, the crisis is upon us. You must do your duty. The city, country, and state shall be rid of Negro domination once and forever. You are the sons of noble ancestry. You are Anglo Saxons. Go to the polls tomorrow, and if you find a Negro out voting, tell him to leave the polls. And if he refuses, kill him, shoot him. Down in his tracks. So cool.

[Dennis]

Horrible.

[Brett]

Yeah, this is a bad place for an ad, but here it is.

[Dennis]

Wee.

[Brett]

This ad is brought to you by Veiv Healthcare, the makers of Dovato Dolutegravir lamivudine. If you're living with hiv, do learn about Dovato. Dovato is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Devato is right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Dovato is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Dovato.

[Ad Voice]

It is unknown if Dovato is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B if you have Hep B. Don't stop Dovato without talking to your doctor as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking Dofetilide due to serious or life threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop Dovato and get medical help right away. Other serious or life threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding or planned pregnancy.

[Brett]

Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devato.com or call 1-877-844-8872.

[Rachel]

Hey, it's Rach. And if you're like me, you want treats that are simple and taste amazing. And that's why I love Johnny Pops. They're deliciously made with simple ingredients and no artificial dyes. Whether it's a quick snack for the kids or a sweet moment for yourself, Johnny Pops are the perfect treat. And there's a kind deed on every stick to encourage everyone to share a little kindness. So next time you're in the freezer aisle, grab a box of Johnny Pops and feel great about what you're sharing. Johnny Pops A better Pop for a better world.

[Brett]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea, Traveling with Doug is one of my favorite things. But when you're on tour like I

[Dennis]

am, bouncing between 35 cities, feeding your

[Brett]

dog can get complicated. And that's why I started bringing Just Fresh from Just Food for Dogs. It's real fresh dog food made with human grade ingredients that he's been obsessed with. But it's shelf stable, so I don't need a freezer or a cooler or a whole travel operation just to feed my dog.

[Dennis]

Doug loves it and I Feel good

[Brett]

giving it to him. So go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Ad Voice]

of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent to taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is.

[Brett]

And we're back. So on election day, red shirted mobs roared through the town of Wilmington, threatening black men and tossing out ballots, destroying ballot drops. They also burnt down businesses, including Manley's newspaper. They like burnt that whole newspaper office down. And they beat and shot and murdered dozens. After the election went their way because no other votes were counted, they issued a white declaration of independence and announced that they would never be ruled by black men again. And unfortunately the Wilmington coup has a long standing effect. Before the Coup, Wilmington was 56% black. Today it's something like 15% black.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Brett]

Newspapers referred to it as a black uprising or riot until the 1950s. And the death toll is generally cited between 60 and 300. We will never know for sure. Right. This is a nightmare. The loss of so much wealth and community. It's one of the things that's still affecting people to this day is the destruction. And this isn't the only town that gets destroyed like this by racists.

[Dennis]

60 and 300 is such a wide range, right?

[Brett]

Yeah. Well, they're not keeping note of how many they're killing, right? That's not their business. Yeah. So Felton herself celebrated the massacre afterwards telling a journalist the slanderer Manly should be made to fear a reaper's rope rather than occupy a place in New York skyscrapers basically. That guy shouldn't have gotten away. We should have hung him. You know, if he ever comes down here again, make sure you do that. She kept on advocating for lynching for years. Although in time it became grew obvious that even her lynching didn't do anything to stop white women from being raped. She never apologized, she just kept advocating for the vote for white women. In fact, as the cause of suffrage grew more popular in the early 1900s, she argued that white men should support suffrage so that white women could use their vote to maintain white power and supremacy. William died her husband in 1909, but Rebecca kept going. By 1922, she was a very old woman and very widely respected in Georgia politics. Women had the vote now, and Rebecca started insisting that the first female elected leaders were inevitable, if not something she expected to see. Then 1922 comes along, right? And this is going to be like this moment of kismet for Rebecca. The junior senator from Georgia who's going to be running in that election gets sick and dies very suddenly. And the governor, Thomas Hardwick, has to appoint a replacement until there can be an election. And since Hardwick is going to run in that election, he knows he needs a political advantage, right? He wants, number one, he wants to appoint someone to that job who won't run for governor against him. And he also wants to get votes from women who can just now vot. Right. So he's trying to get the female vote, and he figures that, like, even if I oppose the 19th Amendment, if I appoint this lady Felton to, like, a kind of symbolic position, then, you know, that'll. That'll burnish my reputation with the lady voters. If I make her technically a congresswoman for, like, a day, then maybe I'll get the ladies vote. Unfortunately, the Senate wasn't expected to be in session before the election that would replace Felton, and she didn't bother traveling to Washington to take the oath of office. But then she's not really planning to do anything about this. It doesn't sound very interesting. But then the president calls for a special session of Congress to work on a ship subsidy bill, and Hardwick loses his election. So, first off, he's not really worried about competing against anyone anymore. And second, there's going to be a session through which Rebecca might actually get a chance to speak. So she starts lobbying to everyone who listened to her of like, hey, if you really want to get the ladies vote, if you really want to show that you're serious about this, make me a senator for a day. It'll mean something to all the women out there who know it's going to happen eventually, right? And she's very good at this. She's very good at campaigning. She's very good at, like, getting people, you know, to come around to her point of view on things. There were a lot of objections at the time. And according to newspaper coverage at the moment, like, when this is all happening, if a single senator had objected to her being given that job for A day it would have all failed. And a bunch of people had said, like, yeah, I'll vote against letting a woman be on the Senate floor. But when it actually happens, none of them do fuck all to stop anything. Like they're not actually willing. Says something there, too. And she gets inaugurated as a Senate gallery, and there's just tons of women watching. There's thunderous applause. I'm going to quote from Smithsonian magazine discussing this moment. The next morning, moments before she stepped down, she addressed her Senate colleagues, thanking them for their chivalric welcome and telling them that though she was just now a remnant of the old south, she was the happiest woman in the United States. As Gidlow explains, After the 19th Amendment became law, black women were subjected to humiliating literacy tests, made to stand in line until polls closed, and even told that election officials wouldn't register them. The historian's attempt has identified at least one woman in Alabama who was sexually assaulted for attempting to vote. Black activists like Mary Church Terrell and Fannie Lou Hamer organized to fight voter suppression, but laws prohibiting voter discrimination on the basis of race weren't passed until 1965. The first black woman Senator, Carol Mosley Braun of Illinois, was elected only in 1992. So Felton gets to have her great moment and be the first female senator and go down in the history books. But it is a long time before that kind of even that possibility exists for a black woman. Right? But it does come finally in 92, Felton, after her brief period of time in Congress, goes back to Georgia and dies of pneumonia, 94 years old, January 24, 1930. Yes, 94. This lady never died.

[Dennis]

What the fuck?

[Brett]

Long, long life.

[Dennis]

94.

[Samantha McVey]

Her evil fed into her body. She ate the souls of others, obviously.

[Brett]

Yeah, yeah, kind of did. Kind of did.

[Samantha McVey]

Maybe that's why she liked the lynching. She needed those souls to live.

[Dennis]

Oh, my God.

[Brett]

That's the first female senator Rebecca Felt. How are we feeling?

[Samantha McVey]

So a wonderful. Like she massacre.

[Rachel]

She.

[Samantha McVey]

She loved a good massacre. Who does.

[Brett]

She did love a good massacre. Come on, who doesn't like a good ma. I like a good massacre. She liked a bad massacre. I'll say that.

[Dennis]

I'm just saying I feel like it was a bad day for me to wear my root for women shirt because I'm not.

[Brett]

Not all women.

[Samantha McVey]

Not always.

[Brett]

Nor should you 100% of the time. Trust them in politics, sometimes they're Rebecca Felton.

[Samantha McVey]

I mean, we have many, many a women that were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Dennis]

Sheesh how does some. It's just baffling that she ate the

[Samantha McVey]

souls of the dead.

[Dennis]

Why did she get so many things wrong when foundationally she had so many things right? Because she's a very complex character.

[Brett]

She's smart and observant enough that she can't not see who the real fault lies with.

[Samantha McVey]

Right.

[Brett]

She knows it's the white men, and she never disagrees with that. But once the white men are gone, she also is going to look and blame at this group of people, particularly black men, who are really upsetting the status quo around her that she values and her own position in it, you know, And I think kind of that's what's going on here. And I think also there's just that this sense of the reason why she's so violently in support of lynching is she believes someone has to do something because of how badly the white men fail in protecting these women. Right now, it's my job, I think is kind of her attitude in general.

[Samantha McVey]

I feel like she's like, I have to punish someone. Men. It's definitely men. I know that I can't do white men because they're too powerful for me. So as a person who's observant and knows how to gain power, which we see in every type of, like, superhero movie, like, the evil person has someone underling who kind of understands this is wrong, but I'd rather be with you and get some rewards from you than punished with them.

[Brett]

Yep. Yeah, I think you really pretty much perfectly nailed it there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just. It's so interesting, too, because obviously the. The suffragette movement does break down. There is a big chunk of it that's like, I think white women should be able to vote. And there's a chunk of it that are like, no, we should all be voting. And it's interesting that how Felton arrives at supporting the vote in the first place is just because, like, well, we can't trust these white men anymore.

[Samantha McVey]

Right.

[Brett]

We gotta take this into our own hands to defend ourselves and our whiteness.

[Samantha McVey]

A big chunk of the suffragettes, the leaders were cool with the black men, even some of the black men. She's like, you know what? You can be a token. Definitely no black women, though. Definitely no black women.

[Brett]

Well, anyway, plugables to plug.

[Samantha McVey]

Okay. Well, I love. Yay. Yes, I am on stuff mom never told you. We also talk about some dark things in history. To be fair, we've had a whole episode about ice and how awful that is. And it's ongoing because, you know, it's awful. So if you want to listen to stuff like that, we also talk about historical things that could be a little more fun or at least uplifting because we know it's dark and dim and oh, my God, why? We also have a book where we talk about a lot of things about feminism and intersexual feminisms over the feminisms over, like all of history. So, yeah, you can check that out wherever you find books, all the books. Independent bookstores are best, though.

[Brett]

Check that out. And yeah, check out us next week when we'll be back with someone else

[Dennis]

bad and a friend of both our pods. Bridget Todd has a new audiobook coming out. Love it. First prompt AI in the Future of Intimacy. It explores AI relationships from sex and romance to friendship, grief, emotional support, and what happens when big tech begins to commodify our most intimate relationships. So check it out on our show

[Samantha McVey]

once a month talking about this stuff.

[Brett]

We love her.

[Dennis]

We love Bridget.

[Brett]

Excellent.

[Samantha McVey]

We do.

[Brett]

Excellent. All right, everybody. Bye, bye.

[Dennis]

Bye. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of behind the Basterds are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com BehindTheBastards we love about 40% of you, statistically speaking.

[Rachel]

Hey, it's Rach. And if you're like me, you want treats that are simple and taste amazing. And that's why I love Johnny Pops. They're deliciously made with simple ingredients and no artificial dyes. Whether it's a quick snack for the kids or a sweet moment for yourself, Johnny Pops are the perfect treat. And there's a kind deed on every stick to encourage everyone to share a little kindness. So next time you're in the freezer aisle, grab a box of Johnny Pop Pops and feel great about what you're sharing. Johnny Pops. A better pop for a better world.

[BetterHelp Narrator]

A better help ad. Have you ever had so many tabs open that your computer starts slowing down? 10 for work, five for family, one for that thing you've been meaning to figure out. 20 more are running quietly in the background. Life can feel like that, too. According to BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma report, 85% of Americans say getting support is a smart thing to do. Yet 74% say society still discourages people from asking for help. And more than three in four Americans reported symptoms of anxiety or depression in the past two weeks. Therapy can help you sort through what's taking up space and attention. With BetterHelp, you can connect with a licensed therapist online. On your schedule, you'll be matched based on your needs, and you can switch therapists anytime. In fact, 69% of BetterHelp users showed meaningful improvement in anxiety and depression. Maybe it's time to close a few tabs. Visit betterhelp.com that's betterhelp.com Most dog food

[Brett]

brands don't really want you seeing how

[Ad Voice]

their food is made.

[Brett]

Just food for dogs is the opposite. They actually invite you in. You can walk into any of their kitchens and see real human grade ingredients like chicken, beef, carrots and peas being prepared right in front of you. It's real food made in real kitchens.

[Ad Voice]

Nothing is hidden behind labels, and that kind of transparency says a lot.

[Brett]

Nothing to hide, everything to love.

[Ad Voice]

Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order.

[Troy Mealings]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent, streaming, even extra Sosa at your favorite burrito spot. But with Boost Mobile, you don't have to play the Willis Go up soon game. Boost Mobile offers an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for Life. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Up only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Ad Voice]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Brett]

Guaranteed Human.