Part Two: The Phil Spector Episodes

Summary

Behind the Bastards – "The Phil Spector Episodes, Part Two" (April 2, 2026)

Episode Overview

This episode continues Behind the Bastards’ deep dive into the turbulent life and career of Phil Spector—legendary producer, pioneering architect of pop’s “Wall of Sound,” and notorious abuser. Hosts Robert Evans and Greasy Will (with contributions from the “Behind the Bastards” team) illuminate Spector’s rise to musical dominance in the 1960s, his early relationships (including Ronnie Spector), and his increasing paranoia, narcissism, and abusive behaviors. The episode blends history, music industry lore, dark humor, and personal anecdotes, culminating in a detailed exploration of Spector’s fractured psyche and control over the women around him.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Phil Spector’s Meteoric Rise and Studio Influence

• Era Context: Spector, in his early twenties, dominates the pop charts as a “tycoon of teen.” Unlike his older white male peers writing songs for girl groups, Spector stands out as a young, boundary-breaking maverick.
  [06:24–07:34]

• Studio as Instrument: “The studio becomes everything to him. He’s bringing in randos from the parking lot to sing backgrounds… The musicians were interchangeable. The studio was important to him.”
  – Greasy Will (07:34)

• Gold Star Studios: Spector’s base in Hollywood played a pivotal role in shaping the “Wall of Sound” aesthetic and served as the creative crucible for his greatest hits.

• Early Influence on Others: Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys was, at first, a mere “hanger-on,” observing Spector’s genius, ultimately channeling that energy into the Beach Boys’ iconic sound.
  [09:09]

2. Spector’s Escalating Insecurities and Paranoia

• Physical Insecurities: Spector’s short stature and early hair loss triggered deep insecurity:

  • “He starts wearing heels all the time because he doesn’t want people to know how short he is. He starts losing his hair… starts wearing wigs.” – Greasy Will (11:08)
  • Spector never acknowledges the wigs; the delusion becomes part of his power dynamics.

• Control and Isolation: Spector’s emotional instability grows with his professional clout. He manipulates, intimidates, and isolates those around him, especially women.

  • “His paranoia is escalating. His reliance on intimidation is becoming really normalized.” – Greasy Will (13:29)

3. Ronnie Spector: The Voice Behind the Wall of Sound

• Background: Ronnie Bennett (later Spector) grows up in Spanish Harlem, hustling with her group, the Ronettes.

  • “She worked, she put in the work from the time she was like 14 years old, just grinding all the time.” – Greasy Will (24:12)

• Ronettes’ Style: Their glamour, beehive hairdos, and “slightly rebellious” energy become an iconic part of 1960s culture.

• Relentless Hustle: The struggle for radio attention and record contracts was real for young groups, especially women of color.
  “Just to get a record made… cost a lot of money… you have to get it to a DJ… sometimes this is a years-long process.” – Greasy Will (23:30)

4. The Spector/Bennett Relationship: Love, Control, and Abuse

• From Love-Bombing to Neglect: Spector initially showers his first wife, Annette Morar, and later Ronnie, with love and gifts, only to ignore or control them soon after.

  • “He love bombs her… but then once they get married, he’s, like, not interested anymore.” – Greasy Will (12:22)

• Gradual Isolation: Spector obsesses over Ronnie, pushing rehearsals and mentorship—a grooming of sorts.

  • “Isolation is disguised as mentorship.” – Host 1 (27:14)

• Gaslighting and Intimidation: Spector’s defensive outbursts and lies become regular.

  • “She accept[s] that as the truth. Curiosity would be met with intimidation, and reality would be replaced with Phil’s version of truth.” – Greasy Will (33:23)

• Notable Quote:
  “All my problems are either me or the government, which is why I really focus on hating the government.” – Host 2 (13:21)

5. Power Dynamics: Spector’s Jealousy and Need for Control

• Controlling Ronnie’s Career: He stifles Ronnie’s independence, forbidding her from touring with the Beatles, and micro-managing her professional life.

  • “Phil never came out and said it, but I could tell he didn’t like the idea of us spending too much time with the Beatles. I don’t think his ego could stand the competition.” – Quoting Ronnie Spector (52:55)

• Weaponizing Loyalty: Spector deploys bodyguards and martial arts experts to project physical power, hires professionals for status (e.g., pool champions), and orchestrates social dominance (43:10–45:53).

• Bizarre Personal Behavior: Spector’s eccentricity is legendary—walking around in karate gear with a wig, hiring bodyguards, and hustling at pool halls, only to have the bodyguards beat up opponents (40:43–45:13).

6. Spector’s Collapse: The “River Deep, Mountain High” Debacle

• The Magnum Opus and Its Failure: Spector’s masterpiece with Tina Turner, “River Deep, Mountain High,” flopped in the U.S., devastating him.

  • “He takes out a full-page ad in a newspaper in America saying Benedict Arnold was right… That’s nuts. That’s a crazy place for your head to go.” – Host 2 (65:48)

• Industry Commentary: The song “was too white for black audiences and too black for white audiences… DJs didn’t know where to put it.” – Greasy Will (64:32)

• Aftermath – Withdrawal and Depression: Spector quits music, isolates himself, and spirals into despair—exemplified by stories like funding Lenny Bruce’s funeral and keeping a blown-up photo of Bruce above his bed (67:55–70:19).

7. Intertwined Misery: Spector, Lenny Bruce, and Bonds of Outsiderhood

• Shared Outsider Status: Spector idolizes controversial comedian Lenny Bruce, bonding over a mutual sense of alienation from the industry despite outward “success” (69:08–70:19).

• Death and Obsession: Spector buys out crime scene photos to protect Bruce’s legacy, pays for his funeral, and mourns him in isolation (71:17–72:38).

8. Ronnie’s Entrapment and the Cycle of Abuse

• Marriage Under Duress: Pressured by Ronnie’s mother and circumstances, Spector and Ronnie wed at a justice of the peace. Spector spends the wedding night in a drunken, abusive tirade:

  • “When he walked into our room… I could tell the last thing he was interested in was my body. Remember, she’s wearing lingerie and everything. He was a completely different person … ‘You bitch!’ he shouted… I was so scared.” – Quoting Ronnie’s memoir (76:22–78:09)

• Themes of Control: Spector’s abuse escalates from psychological manipulation to outright threats and isolation, foreshadowing the horrors to come.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Spector’s Delusion/Pose:
  “He never acknowledges that he wears wigs… everybody just lets him go on with his little delusion about not being bald.” – Greasy Will (34:38)

• On Industry Eras:
  “Phil Spector represented the most important version… the Beatles are about to cross over in America, and Phil Spector is incredibly threatened by them.” – Greasy Will (50:53)

• Petty Shows of Power:
  “You can’t ride with the hottest band… but I can. And you have to take a step.” – Greasy Will (53:43)

• On Abuse Patterns:
  “Isolation is disguised as mentorship.” – Host 1 (27:14)

• On the “River Deep” Failure:
  “For a man who equated control with emotional safety, the failure felt deeply personal. If he could not guarantee success through perfection, then his entire identity as a producer was suddenly unstable.” – Greasy Will (64:24)

• Darkly Comic Moments:

  • Phil Spector walking around in a karate gi and a wig: “Wearing a wig and a karate outfit walking around town… but you can’t make fun of him because you know he’s also going to pull that .38 on you.” – Host 2 (40:43)
  • On hustling people at pool with his bodyguards: “Then when people got mad, he’d have his bodyguards beat the shit out of them.” – Greasy Will (45:13)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 06:24–07:34: Spector’s “tycoon of teen” era; young vs. old songwriters.
• 11:08: Spector’s insecurities—hair loss, heels, wigs.
• 13:29: Spector’s increasing paranoia, intimidation, and control.
• 24:12–24:41: Ronnie’s musical hustle and formative years.
• 27:14: Spector’s grooming and isolation disguised as mentorship.
• 33:23–34:34: Spector’s gaslighting patterns.
• 40:43–45:13: Spector’s martial arts/bodyguard obsessions and pool hustling.
• 52:55: Spector undermining Ronnie’s opportunities with the Beatles.
• 64:24–65:48: The “River Deep, Mountain High” disaster and Spector’s collapse.
• 67:55–72:38: Spector’s relationship with Lenny Bruce; grief after Bruce’s death.
• 76:22–78:09: Ronnie and Phil’s wedding night; first full, terrifying episode of Spector’s marital abuse.

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Final Thoughts

Part Two paints a chilling but nuanced portrait: Spector is both groundbreaking genius and deeply broken man. The episode exposes the bleak reality behind his public image—driven by insecurity, consumed by the need for control, and ultimately, a perpetrator of cycles of abuse. Through all the humor and music trivia, the story foreshadows the darkness in the chapters still to come, both for Phil Spector and those drawn into his orbit.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Call Zone Media.

[Host 2]

Welcome back to behind the Bastards, a podcast that this week is about Filliam Spector. I'm fairly certain that's not what his first name is. Here to correct me, Greasy Will?

[Greasy Will]

That's actually. I think his name was Philliam. I have no reason to dispute that.

[Host 2]

That's legally the truth, then.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, absolutely, 100%. I do want to lead off with saying that I forgot last episode, but I did want to mention I. I have made a playlist of all of Phil Spector's music. I thought that it would be very. Even though it's technically, whenever you're doing this is educational. So you can use music for anything that you want when it's educational. But I thought it would be, especially with the new, prestigious Netflix deal that you guys got. I didn't want you to have any copyright complications.

[Host 2]

What are you building to?

[Greasy Will]

No, I'm just saying I just didn't want you guys to have any complications. So instead of what I think is Phil's most seminal song, instead of playing that, I. I'll play you my interpretation of it. Thank you all for listening. I will be here all week.

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[Host 1]

That was beautiful.

[Host 2]

Well, that was genuinely one of the sweetest things.

[Greasy Will]

I loved every single. I just want everybody to know, like, this was not an AI song. I legitimately made that song.

[Host 2]

I would never have accused you of that.

[Greasy Will]

I. I know, but it's like right now there's so much like. Like, you know, like 50 Cent does 50s song, you know, like do up, you know, and you're like, ah, no, I legit. I. I brought in a girl. Her name is Clancy. I shout her out. Shout out Clancy. She was amazing.

[Host 2]

She.

[Greasy Will]

She crushed that Ronnie Spector vibe. She absolutely killed it. It was amazing and I very much appreciate it. Yeah. But, yes, you didn't really show that

[Host 2]

Wallace sound thing too, that you were talking about.

[Greasy Will]

Literally what I was going for was trying to sound exactly like Phil Spector's Be My Baby, which is where we will pick up today.

[Host 2]

Beautiful.

[Greasy Will]

Beautiful.

[Host 2]

What an introduction.

[Greasy Will]

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[Greasy Will]

So back to our story. Back to our pal, Philip Spector. His career is exploding, right? This is where we're at right now. His career is exploding. He is the hottest. He is Max Martin in the 90s, right? He just wrote Britney Spears and now he's working for Christina Aguilera. And then he's working for. You know, it's just like hit after hit after hit after hit. And like I said before, in the last episode we talked about, he was the tycoon of teen

[Host 1]

hate that.

[Greasy Will]

So, yeah, so he's. Yes, it's very. It's a very upsetting name as an. You know, this. But to be fair, he is probably only like 20 years old. Like, he is barely not a teen himself at this point. And this is a very, very peculiar time in history, right, because most of his competition is like 50, 40, right? They're like old dudes, right?

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Greasy Will]

It's like in the early days. Like, it's very funny, but they talk about this all the time. And like, basically, if you heard a song by a young black girl group, it was written by an old white Jewish man.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Greasy Will]

Without fail. That's what I mean, you know, not quite yet, but very soon, the Chess brothers are gonna have Chess Records in Chicago. And it's gonna be everything, you know, everything that exists, you know, in music is going to come out of there for a little while. It's like there is absolutely. There is just a. A, A world of old white dudes writing, writing pop music for teenage girls. And Phil Spector is the maverick. He's the young guy. He's. And he's doing it different. He's very different. Right. All right. So the studio becomes his creative space. The studio becomes everything to him. He's using it as part. It's like the. It's really in these moments, too, when he's making these wall of sound productions. It is basically Phil Spector and the studio is the musician. He's bringing in randos from the parking lot to sing backgrounds. Like, there's layers of percussion and shit. It was like, if you could keep a beat at all, it was like, cool. Go in there and play a. This thing. He would have multiple drums, like, all sorts of stuff going on in these productions. The musicians were interchangeable. The studio was important to him. Gold Star Studios in Hollywood on vine, which is no longer there by the record. It was A shitty studio in the 1960s.

[Host 2]

I gotta break it here to say, one of my favorite early in our friendship memories was coming to visit you at the studio you were working at in LA for the first time with Lenny and, like, cracking a six pack. When you're, like, putting the finishing touches on something and you're like, you know, this is where they made pet sounds. And I was like, oh, this building. You're like, no, like, this room is the room.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, Here. Yeah, right here. Yeah. Which, again, I mentioned this the first episode, but, you know, part of my love for this whole story is that this is all combined. This story is all one story, which also includes Charles Manson. I don't know if you know that. Charles Manson. Charles Manson's in this whole thing too. And I actually have a little bit, like, dang, I should pivot from this one. The next one, I come over here, I should. Charles Manson, Beach Boys.

[Host 2]

We talked a little bit about the Beach Boys and Charlie Manson, but not as much as the subject deserves. Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

Oh, my God, it is. I mean, we'll get there. We'll get there. That's a later. That's a little special thing for you guys in the future. You'll love it. So, yeah. So, you know, Phil is working at Gold Star. The. The Beach Boys are. Are. Brian Wilson actually is part of these early, like, background people, not singers. He's like a hanger on. He's like, showing up places and being like, oh, Phil's working like. And he's a kid and he just like, oh, I just want to see what Phil is doing. Because Phil is the guiding force of what would become the Beach Boys, which would then become the Beatles. Is like, whole vibe on how they. They just were not doing the. Phil is the architect of this original sound, and you cannot be stressed enough how big of a deal this is. Like, he is, like, as big as. As Dr. Dre is. Right? Like, when you think of, like, oh, like, everybody knows Dr. Dre. Everybody knows Phil Spector.

[Host 2]

Right?

[Greasy Will]

Across continents, they know Phil Spector. Everybody knows Phil Spector. Right? He is after. After the hits that he's crafted already. Just. He's. He's world. He's Worldwide. Mr. Worldwide. He's Pitbull himself.

[Host 2]

Right, right. Yes. He's the first Mr. Worldwide.

[Greasy Will]

He is also, as I said, only about, like, five foot three or whatever.

[Host 2]

And.

[Greasy Will]

And he wears heels. He starts wearing heels all the time because he doesn't want people to know how short he is. He starts losing his hair, which we'll talk about. A little bit. And so he starts wearing wigs and starts, like, on. This is the beginning of all this. At this exact. He's like, 21, and he's, like, losing his hair at a. At a crazy rate. He's like, all right. Real insecure about it. Really has a lot of self worth, image issues, you know, he really just does not. Like he's doing all this because of that. He's trying to go bigger and bigger and bigger because he looks at himself as being just like, the worst because, you know, mom issues and all that.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

By the mid-1960s, Phil Spector had achieved something few producers had ever managed. He had transformed himself from science songwriter into brand, from collaborator into architect. The wall of sound was no longer experimental. It was defining popular music. But as his professional authority grew, so did his emotional instability. He got married to a woman named Annette Morar. Right. And it is such a small blip. Like, this is. I should have started with that. But it's such a small blip. He marries her and immediately just starts ignoring her. Has no interest in her. He. He love bombs her. He does what we now call love bomb.

[Host 2]

Yeah, right.

[Greasy Will]

He love bombs the shit out of her. But then once they get married, because this is like a very short courtship. Once they get married, he's, like, not interested anymore. So that gives me major ick. Sorry, go ahead.

[Host 1]

That gives me major ick is all I'm saying.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, well, calm down on hating on people for bad relationship situations as we have Will.

[Host 2]

I'm hardly one to talk.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, I'm doing the best I can. Look, I figured out. I figured out the problem. It's me.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I'm in the same place. I've locked.

[Greasy Will]

I figured out the problem.

[Host 2]

Nicole was coming inside the house the whole time.

[Greasy Will]

100. We figured out the problem, but the real, you know, we gotta saying you

[Host 1]

got 99 problems, but you're the. And it's you.

[Host 2]

Yes, yes, I've got 99 problems, and I am all of them.

[Greasy Will]

Yep. And I have been nefariously behind every single one of them. Just. This will never come back to me.

[Host 2]

Yeah. All my problems are either me or the government, which is why I really focus on hating the government.

[Host 1]

It's true.

[Greasy Will]

All right, so his paranoia is escalating. His reliance on intimidation is becoming really normalized. Right.

[Host 1]

Wait, that's actually kind of interesting. So he love bombs this person. He's obsessed with her, and then they get married, but then he no longer wants to, like, control or stalk her.

[Greasy Will]

No, he literally, he. So that's a new behavior. He. He basically. It's that classic. Like, as soon as he gets it, he's not interested. Yeah, he gets it. It pivots. Like, the whole thing changes. Right.

[Host 1]

But he doesn't want to control her anymore.

[Greasy Will]

Not. Not really. It's more of like. It's more of like he. I mean, he is still controlling, right?

[Host 1]

Sure.

[Greasy Will]

But he just doesn't care at all, you know? Like, most of the time, he's more interested in his career, in his work, in what's going on in the studio. He builds a studio underneath his house so that he can just like, be down there whenever he's, like, anytime he's annoyed or, like, whatever, he just goes downstairs. So he has the ultimate, like, escape plan.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I'm sure if he were to catcher cheating on him, he'd be pissed. But he's hardly paying enough attention to know.

[Host 1]

Got it.

[Greasy Will]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's very much. At this point, he's very much interested in Phil. Phil is what's driving him. Right?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

So what he's looking for, this whole time he keeps talking about this is a constant reference. He's looking for the voice. He's looking for the voice that perfectly complements his wall of sound. His musical compositions, like, being all these, like, big Wagnerian, like, opuses and everything. He wants a person to be that thing, to be that front and center for all of this, to make it worth what he's doing. He doesn't feel like he's found that with any of his previous stuff. So in walks Ronnie Bennett. Ronnie Bennett. Let's talk about Ronnie Bennett will eventually become his wife. Spoiler alert. I don't know how much I wrote. So now I just gotta. I wrote a lot. I wrote a lot. There's a lot of words in here. I.

[Host 1]

41 pages. You wrote, my friend.

[Greasy Will]

Brief.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Welcome to my.

[Greasy Will]

Yes. No, no, no. That's exactly what I was gonna say. You know, I'm on the subreddits. I'm on the YouTubes. I read the comments. I read the comments. Cause they keep me humble because, like, I'll be like, posting something on the Internet, and someone would be like, this guy's a fucking loser. And I'm like, all right, cool. You know, I'm exactly a loser. No, I just, you know, I gotta. I gotta keep it real out there. But sometimes I see comments on there where people will be like, I can't believe Robert. Fuck you. Fuck every one of you who has ever made a comment like that. Fuck any of you who have ever said anything bad about Sophie, too, I slapped the shit out of you. This is for the subreddit, right Now, I'm one of you and I see the things you say and I'm disgusted by them sometimes because I'm like, God, do you know this took me a year. This took me a whole year to do this. I'm busy. I'm a busy person. But even whenever I was like, I told you last week, oh, I'm done with this. And I was mostly done, but I wrote another, like, 3,000 words because I was like, well, there's some parts I'm missing.

[Host 2]

And all this because everyone will call you out if you miss shit.

[Greasy Will]

And you're going to miss shit. This is hard. And I hear all your little Internet comments like, oh, you said some weird shit, or what? Yeah, I'm doing my best, dude. It's like I'm improvising at the same time while I'm obviously drinking a little bit. And like, you know, you guys gotta cut me a break. Well, that's loaded.

[Host 2]

You gotta do that.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah. I don't know how anybody else operates, but this is how I do things. Speaking of which, purchase greasy does it recording course taught by me, a very responsible human being. Great plug marketing. Great plug.

[Host 2]

Incredible work.

[Greasy Will]

Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So Ronnie is born into a family shape. She's born in Spanish Harlem, New York City, August 10, 1943. Four years after Phil was born. Just down the street, basically. They probably lived almost in the same area at this time, essentially. All right, so her father, Lewis Bennett, was an Irish American, and her mother was African American Cherokee. Her father was also a drummer and a drunk. Something that can still be found together in massive quantities around the world. You can have a drummer and drinking anywhere you go. It's true. You can find it. It's as prevalent as Coca Cola, man. It's there. So he's also a failure, right? He can't keep a job. He can't do anything. He's just a mess most of the time. So she grows up not really down with alcohol. Right. This is important for later.

[Host 2]

But she starts her life understandable, being

[Greasy Will]

traumatized by a little bit by alcohol. She always loves her dad, but she definitely feels like this is an alcohol thing. Yeah, she loves singing. She's really big on Frankie Lymon. She loves Frankie Lymon. She thinks he's the best ever Dinah Washington. Just voices that were raw and like real, real authentic feeling. Right. And she also gravitated towards performance she was always like, you know, the classic front woman thing. You know, it's like when she was a little kid, she was always singing into microphones. You know, it's like that story, right? Her father being a drummer and a failed drummer did not discourage her mother because her father left pretty early. But it didn't discourage her mother from encouraging Ronnie's musical talent. She didn't just like, all of a sudden, I mean, if it was me, like, dude, I had ex girlfriends that were like, my ex boyfriend was a drummer, and he failed at music, so you can't possibly make money off of music. And I'm like, you know, maybe you're wrong. I don't know. To be fair, I didn't make a lot of money off of it, so whatever. So, yeah, so her mom. Her mom supports her. Her dad's always waxing poetic about his days as a musician. So she grows up as that being, like, a really important thing, right? She was always singing at school events, neighborhood functions. She. She got a style, right? That's something that happens when you do a lot of music is eventually. At first, you're just learning. You're just trying to replicate other people's things, but eventually, once you do it enough, you develop style, right? And for her, she developed a very unique style. It was very raw. It wasn't musically perfect, but it had just a tone that was just beautiful. Everybody recognized. Recognized it, right? So her older sister Estelle and her cousin Nedra formed a vocal group called the Darling Sisters. The trio practice constantly singing in school hallways, street corners, in their apartments. That's like a thing that still happens in this time period. People like, outdoor and everything. Yeah, just singing in public, bro. If you saw that now, you'd be like, oh, my God, Fucking influencers are the shittiest.

[Host 2]

I was about to say, unfortunately, I would assume it's some, like, incredibly irritating, like, TikTok thing or whatever. Some fucking viral or something. Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

Dumb. Some. I don't want to be a part of your videos, weirdo. You know, that's.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I'd be a huge asshole about it.

[Greasy Will]

I would. Absolutely. I be like, you guys suck anyways. I don't even want to listen for

[Host 2]

making music in public.

[Greasy Will]

I'll kill you. So the group was eventually renamed the Ronettes, a name that captured their identity and Ronnie's emerging role as a front woman. You know, Ronnie and the Ronettes, it's very normal name.

[Host 2]

Absolutely.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know,

[Greasy Will]

but, you know, Ronnie's lead vocals really do become the defining characteristic of this whole thing. Their early performances were energetic, glamorous, and slightly rebellious. Rani developed distinctive stage presence that blended confidence with vulnerability. She wore dramatic eye makeup, teased her hair into towering beehives, and moved with a swagger that contrasted with her petite frame. She was creating an image that felt simultaneously innocent and dangerous, an aesthetic that would later become iconic in 1960s pop culture. Sophie, if you would please show Phil and the lovely ladies of the Ronettes.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Beautiful woman.

[Greasy Will]

They didn't invent that beehive hairdo.

[Host 1]

Yeah. But iconic.

[Greasy Will]

They're the reason it became popular. Right. It was like their. Their adoption of. It was the thing that made that you. I mean, that was iconic. My grandmother had one of those when I was a kid still. And it was like the 80s. Like, it stayed on for 20 some years how popular that was. So it's like their cultural relevance just cannot be understated in any way. They were incredibly important to the look of the early 60s, so breaking into the professional music industry proved difficult for them. The Ronin's performed at clubs and talent contests, dance venues all throughout New York City, struggling to secure recording contracts or industry attention. Their persistence reflected both ambition and necessary necessity because music was important to Ronnie. Like, she. It was get rich or die trying on this. You know, she was 50 centing hard right now. Eventually, the group secured opportunities to perform at venues that exposed them to evolving pop and rhythm and blues scene of the 1960s New York. They performed at the Peppermint Lounge and other popular clubs. And again, Ronnie driving the way. Yeah, they were starting to get. Sorry, go ahead.

[Host 2]

Just because this is. And Spectre and I know what's coming is like, based on just how he treats artists, like, the replaceability of them, treating them just like another tool. And hearing a story like this that really drives home just like. No, to get anywhere close to people hearing you on the radio, you have to have been relentless about making this your life. Like, absolutely unhinged in your dedication to

[Greasy Will]

this career, especially at this time. Right. And it's a really good point. Like, I cannot. The dedication cannot be understated. It's like at this point, in order to get a record made, right, that cost a lot of money, you know, like, for the time, you know, it'd be like 100 or $200 or something like that to record a song at the studio, like $200 is like a whole month's paycheck for people in the 60s.

[Host 2]

It's a crazy amount of money.

[Greasy Will]

Yes, it's a lot of money for a lot of people, so. And it's still kind of that way today. In fact, if you're interested in working with Greasy Will, you can find him at the grease [e-mail] sor Anyway, so, you know, it's very expensive. So even to just get something recorded is expensive. Then you have to get it to a dj, you have to get it on the radio, because the only way you ever sell anything is if it's on the radio. So you got to get it on the radio and then it has to build local support and then it has to build regional support and then it has to build. You know, it's like sometimes this is like a years long process to get music to be heard. So.

[Host 1]

Right, she's hustling. She's like relentless and trying to get her stuff out there.

[Greasy Will]

Absolutely, absolutely. She strongly believed that the right producer would eventually understand how to capture her voice authentically. And she continued performing relentlessly, touring, rehearsing and refining her stage presence. She saw her career not as a sudden break waiting to happen, but something that she would build through persistence and emotional honesty. So, yes, that's exactly it. She worked, she put in the work from the time she was like 14 years old. Just grind it all the time.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I'd say it's the only way to do it, but it's the only. It's not. But it's the only way to do it if like, you're not somebody who's coming from somewhere, you know?

[Greasy Will]

Sure, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's a lot of Nepo babies in the music industry right now. Sure. So we don't have to pretend. So they're rising through New York. It's 1963 and she's looking for this producer. And coincidentally, a producer is looking for his voice, his muse, his wall of sound, his girl who will be that for him. And they meet. They literally. It's very funny. They literally just. They just call, you know, it's like 1963. You just look up in the telephone

[Host 1]

book, hey, you wanna produce my album?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

It's like when I think about the old days of how things were done, it's like, what, you just called somebody? I won't even answer a phone call from a number. I don't know. I know, yeah.

[Host 2]

You just pick up the phone and yeah, get a fucking music deal based on that.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know, so assuming your call timed in well with when he just done a line. Yeah. You might be able to fucking make some shit happen.

[Greasy Will]

Absolutely. So, yeah, so I was like, all right, so they, they just call him. They just call him, they call him and he's like, oh yeah, I've heard of you guys. Because they're making a noise in New York, right? And Phil at this time too, there's a lot of geographical confusion with a lot of the stuff that he is bouncing back and forth between California and New York all the time. Like, it's like he loves working in Gold Star, so he goes out to California to work at Gold Star, the studio. But he, he doesn't like, the New York scene is still the scene, right? So he's got to like go to New York and then he flies back and then he'll work there for a while. So a lot of times it'll. It might seem like he is just like transporting across the country in the story, but he really is. So he heard Phil in Ronnie. He heard the voice that he had. He'd been waiting for the emotional landscape that he had spent years construction.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

Would fit perfectly with her, right? The professional relationship though, immediately blurs into personal fixation. He starts spending extraordinary amounts of time rehearsing Ronnie. Rehearsing Ronnie. He's always rehearsing Ronnie. Like, it's like, Ronnie, stay after we got to do this. You know, Ronnie, Ronnie. It's like always Ronnie. And of course, she is the front woman. I'm not saying, you know, that's not important or whatever, but it's like it very obvious, right, that he is, that he is.

[Host 1]

He's trying to isolate her.

[Greasy Will]

Isolate her as a great isolation is began disguised as mentorship. Exactly. Right.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Ah, that's never happened before.

[Greasy Will]

Yes.

[Host 2]

You know what else hasn't happened before? Advertisements. We're the first podcast to do that. So yeah, you're welcome.

[Greasy Will]

Yes, let's do it.

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[Greasy Will]

And we're back. We're back into Phil Spector, actually. I don't know if I like that.

[Host 2]

Hated it.

[Greasy Will]

Sophie's face.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

All right. So yeah, it's easy to portray Ronnie as. As a victim and only as a victim. Right. But it kind of. It denies the fact that Phil Spector is Phil Spector at this time. He is a legendary person in the music industry. And she fell into love with him as well. It was not one sided. It was not just Phil love bombing her, but it was in fact, quote, I already knew I liked him that first day, and I knew he liked me too. It really was love at first sight on both our parts. Even though I hardly said three words the whole night, I didn't have to say anything else. We communicated in other ways. Every time Phil put that song back on, I was wondering. I wondered if he wasn't trying to tell me something because it sure did speak to me. I couldn't stop thinking that today I really met the boy I was going to marry.

[Host 1]

And that's from Ronnie's book, Be My baby.

[Host 2]

Aww.

[Greasy Will]

Yes, From Ronnie's book, Be My Baby.

[Host 2]

I know where this goes, so I'm so bummed about this.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

He showers her with gifts, attention, grand declarations of devotion. Like he is just. He's on it, Right?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

However, remember I said that Phil has his studio in his house, Right?

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Greasy Will]

And he is still married and his wife lives upstairs. Cool. Again, this is also from Ronnie's book. She goes to visit him and she says, quote, I'd never been in a penthouse before Phil or anyone else. So naturally when I walked in, I couldn't resist peeking into all the closets and poking around behind all the closed doors. I opened one door and was surprised to find a bedroom where six or seven pairs of women's shoes were scattered all over the floor. I asked Phil who they belonged to, and he nearly turned pink. Will you stop snooping around where you don't belong? He snapp. I think it was the first time I ever saw Phil lose his temper. Okay, honey, I said. I'm sorry. He must have noticed the hurt look in my eyes because he softened his tone immediately. Those are my sister Shirley's shoes, he explained. She stays here sometimes when she's in New York.

[Host 1]

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

[Host 2]

Your sister Shirley? Yeah, bro.

[Greasy Will]

Getting mad was the distraction to come up with the excuse. Right? He was like, what are you looking around for? Oh, yeah, sister shoes. But those are my sister shoes. If I thought of that before, I wouldn't have gotten mad first. If I'd have thought of sister shoes immediately, I wouldn't have gotten mad. Come on. So, you know, he. Abrupt, defensive, you know, aggressive. This is. This is a pattern that would kind of define the relationship. You know, curiosity would be met with intimidation, and reality would be replaced with Phil's version of truth.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

He's gaslighting.

[Greasy Will]

She accepts that. Gaslighting.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Greasy Will]

She accepts that as the truth. Right. And just doesn't even question it. She does say that she recognized that Phil had some issues, right? She was like, he's got some, like, confidence issues. And this is another quote that I think.

[Host 2]

Confidence issues. Okay?

[Greasy Will]

So important. So, so important. Listen to this. All right, so this is from her book, be My baby quote. Phil first started losing his hair around the time we met. In fact, there's a picture that was taken when he signed us in March 1963, which also was the first day I ever saw him wearing a toupee. It was so obvious if you knew him. But he still went to great lengths to hide the fact that he wore wigs. Even when we slept together. After we'd do our foreplay, he'd get up from bed and make sure the lights were all out. That way, I couldn't watch him when he took his hair off. Then he'd stumble into the bathroom in the dark so he could rub this acetone solvent all over his head. It was the smelliest stuff in the world. But I guess it was the only thing he could get the tongue, the toupee, glue off his scalp. Oh, man. So He's. He's, like, 21, and he's, like, lost all his hair already. And he is incredibly insecure.

[Host 2]

He's the worst way possible.

[Greasy Will]

The worst way.

[Host 2]

Gluing it to a. Ooh, sorry.

[Greasy Will]

Yes. And everybody knows. Everybody around him knows. But, like, he's so powerful, you don't say anything.

[Host 2]

Sure, sure.

[Greasy Will]

And so it's just like, everybody's just. Just kind of accepting that this is a thing that has happened and nobody says anything, and they just let him go on with his little delusion about not being bald. You know, I'm not really bald.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, of course, Phil. Absolutely. I always wonder with guys like that. Do you know that everyone knows. Is this, like, a power thing? Are you truly deluded?

[Greasy Will]

I'm so excited that you brought this Up. And I can't wait for down the road when we discuss Phil and his hair, because we have to, at some point in time, really get into Phil's psyche about his hair. And spoiler alert, it's a big deal for him. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. He just flat out does. Never acknowledges that he wears wigs. It's amazing. All right, so. And that's gonna get even funnier in a couple paragraphs here. All right, so Phil brings Ronnie to California under the promise of expanding her career opportunities away from her family. She's now cross the country, New York to California, away. You know, during this whole time, Ronnie claims to have not known that Phil was married. She didn't find out until they had been sleeping together for several months. When a fellow musician finally broke the news to her, she had been in love with Phil and ignored all the warnings. But now it was clear it didn't change her love. She still loved him, and he still loved her. And he love bombs her with the house, and they move in together.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah. So she's literally just in, like, the bathroom one day, and somebody's like, oh, yeah, because, you know, because his wife. And she's like, wait, what? She's like, yeah, he's married. You didn't know? He's married? He's married. What are you talking about? So she's just like. She's hurt, but she's like, you know, I mean, he comes and tells her, of course, you know, naturally. Oh, it's not. We're done. We're getting divorced. We don't love each other. It's a whole thing. Right. So Phil lied to Ronnie's mother about the nature of their relationship, too, and tells her that they're married already. Because she's like, you guys can't be living together. And. And he's like, no, we're already married. It's fine. And she's like, I don't believe you.

[Host 2]

Sucks so bad, it seems like an obvious lie.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, Yeah, I don't believe you. But I do need to, like, you know, figure this all out. Right.

[Host 1]

How old is Ronnie at this time?

[Greasy Will]

Ronnie is, like, 19 years old. Like, 20. 19. 20. And Phil is. Phil is, like, 22, 23 years old. Like, he was born in 39, so 24. He's 24.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Greasy Will]

He would have these wild swings between, like, heavy love and then targeted insults. One night after a show, he flew into a rage after a cameraman compliments her, and he loses his mind. Quote from Ronnie's book quote, this was a big thing with Phil. If I lost control in front of a crowd, he hated it because that meant I was out of his control. And on top of everything else, you came in off key. He could only ever criticize my singing for technical reasons because he knew I didn't read music, so I couldn't argue. Don't bother coming to the party after the show he ordered, I don't want to see you there. I went straight back to my hotel room and cried. I suppose I could have gone to the party anyways, but I never considered it. I just couldn't go against Phil's wishes in those days. Phil couldn't control what I did once I got out on stage. But that wasn't a problem he had in our personal life. So he is. It's pretty early, they're not married. This is very early and he's already taking control. The Beatles ask them to go on tour with the Ronettes and Phil told Ronnie not to do it, you know, and.

[Host 2]

Yeah, why would you want to go on tour with the Beatles?

[Greasy Will]

That's not with those guys. He's very.

[Host 2]

That band's not going anywhere.

[Greasy Will]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, fuck those guys. Those. Those random blokes from Liverpool or whatever. Yeah, no future. So. All right, so following the incident where he was urinated on, Spector developed an intense obsession with personal protection. This is. This is classic Phil, right? He began collecting firearms, frequently carrying them during studio sessions and public appearances. Over time, his guns become more than defensive tools. They become theatrical symbols of authority and intimidation. Naturally. Right, like this guy doesn't just. He loves guns, right?

[Host 2]

He likes to scare people with guns a lot.

[Greasy Will]

Yes. And, yeah, he loves a snub nose, he loves a.38, dude, he just like. That's a pocket gun, like crazy.

[Host 2]

It's really just whip it out and wave it in people's faces, you know. That's the perfect.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, it's the perfect. And also you can hit him with it. It's very heavy. It's got to. Yeah, I mean, that's a.

[Host 2]

Hit him with it.

[Greasy Will]

That's a good pistol whipping gun for sure, right?

[Host 2]

Yeah. When you jam it into someone's body, the slide doesn't, you know, get out of battery or whatever. Like you can. You can really just poke people with a.38 very easily.

[Greasy Will]

And. Yes, and let's be real honest too, when it comes to a.38, like, it's not like a long distance weapon.

[Host 2]

It's not an aiming gun, it's not

[Greasy Will]

an aiming not an aiming gun. Not at all. All right. He also developed a fascination with martial arts, particularly karate. All right, now, Again, this is 1960s America. We're about to see Elvis get into the same thing.

[Host 2]

Yeah, he sure was.

[Ad Voice 1]

I forgot.

[Greasy Will]

This isn't, like, out of control. Lots of actors are like, okay, but. All right. But Phil's particularly funny. So he's watching television right now, and he sees a guy named Santi Yosol break a brick with his hand. And he's it. That's it. He's sold, bro. That's all he needed to see.

[Host 2]

Share.

[Greasy Will]

Yes. So he starts taking lessons from this guy. He finds this guy and starts taking lessons from him, right? And he just, like, goes crazy. It's like every day. And he starts. He starts walking around town just like in a karate gi. Just like that. You know this.

[Host 2]

Like, he's inventing, being a Weeb. That's amazing. Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

Yes. And all right. And again and again, he doesn't have real hair. So he's. He's wearing a wig. Right? He's wearing an obvious wig and a karate outfit walking around town.

[Host 1]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

But you can't make fun of him because, you know he's also going to pull that.38 on you if you do.

[Greasy Will]

Yes. And probably armed with a gun. So, like, all of the things. Right. All right, this is. So he. This also gives him access to actual karate practitioners because he's taken lessons from these guys.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Greasy Will]

So then he hires them. He hires Santi to. To be his bodyguard. Cause he's like, well, now I got this tough guy, right? You're. This karate good enough for me. And so these guys also, I just wanna point out, like, I don't know this to be fact, but I just can't stop thinking about this. Cause another bodyguard who's a karate guy, he talks about this a little bit, but, you know. You know that they're getting paid a lot of money to be around this guy. They're making a lot of money off of this guy. Right? So, you know, they're like, yeah, bro, you killed it with karate chest, man.

[Host 2]

Oh, Phil, you've got the most powerful.

[Greasy Will]

You're so dangerous.

[Host 2]

Yeah, just a little push knocked me right over, Phil. Wow.

[Greasy Will]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

Well, it's also. Especially in this period of time, just lying about your martial arts qualifications. Oh, yes. Spent 10 years in China learning kung fu from monks. Who's gonna check up on that shit? You learn, like, Google, and you're good, you know? Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

You could lie about anything back in the Day.

[Host 2]

It was so easy.

[Greasy Will]

Even when I was, like, in high school, you could still lie about things. Like, what am I going to do? Go to the library and prove you wrong?

[Host 2]

All of the top billed Native American actors in Hollywood were Italian men.

[Greasy Will]

Italian guys.

[Host 2]

Very easy to lie.

[Greasy Will]

It was so easy. All right, so, so Santi, bodyguards for him, and then he's like, bro, I got time for this anymore. I'm actually getting a legitimate business. Like, so he passes it off to this other guy, Emil Farkin. And Emil felt that Spectre was using his bodyguards as status symbol, but also as a threat to anyone who might get froggy. So he's like, you know, walking around, got these guys, you know, like, what are you gonna do? Kind of shit. Very Jack Doherty coded. Do you know Jack Doherty? Yeah. Millennial. The young kids, the xennials or whatever will know who the fuck that is. Anyway, he's, you know, he's doing that. He's going up to clubs on Sunset Strip, getting in front of everybody, and then when somebody dares to question him, he says, fuck you. And they're like, okay, well, let's fight. And then from out of behind him comes some actual karate guys, you know, plus also too, actual karate guys in the 60s must have beat the shit out of everybody, dude. Like, they're still in, like, the world of, like, wild haymakers and stuff.

[Host 2]

Everyone else is doing, like, the Captain Kirk 200 punch. And you actually know how to hit somebody.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, you're fucking doing this thing, you know, and you're like, come on now. Jack Johnson.

[Host 2]

The Tam o', Leary, right?

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's like, like actual karate guys. I think about this all the time. Like, Dave must have just mopped the floor. It's not like now you might actually run into, like, a UFC guy, like, or like an MMA guy, right?

[Host 2]

There's guys who actually do that now, just walking around.

[Greasy Will]

But these are just karate guys walking around, you know? Anyway, so. So, yeah, so he. He basically is just antagonizing people in purposefully to cause problems, and then has his bodyguards beat the shit out of him, which is beautiful. Super fucked up. So Emil, though, he says this is from breaking the Wallace sound quote. Spector had never quite got the hang of karate. He might have worn a black belt tied around his gi, and he might have boasted to journalists that in case of real trouble, I could totally kill a guy. But according to Emil Farkas, he just play acted. He'd do a lot of chopping his hands in the air, but he was nowhere Near a black belt.

[Host 2]

He's like, chopping his hands in the air. If the thing someone's going for is a chop, you can kind of guess the rest.

[Greasy Will]

He's like, I know you could really

[Host 2]

hurt people that way.

[Greasy Will]

But generally, he's hitting him with the hi ya. You know? I mean, it's hilarious to picture, like in your brain. Right? I just always have to remind myself, because he's a giant in the world, but he is a five foot three man. He's a tiny little dude out here karate chopping.

[Host 1]

Incredible.

[Greasy Will]

Wearing a karate gear.

[Host 2]

He is a 5 foot 3 man who believes he's a martial artist.

[Greasy Will]

My God. But. All right. But what he was good at was playing pool. Apparently, he was pretty good at playing pool. And so he hired this pro player, Willie Moscone, and paid him $175,000 a year to hang out at his house and teach him how to play pool. Okay, that's cool.

[Host 2]

That's kind of cool.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

And then. Hold on, hold on. Then he would go to pool halls and hustle people with him. And then when people got mad, he'd have his bodyguards beat the shit out of him.

[Host 2]

He's really. He was really scraping. All of the fun you can have when you're rich enough for bodyguards.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, like, I just have a posse

[Host 2]

of dangerous men that have to beat people up. If I'm. If I'm a dick, I am surprised more rich guys don't do this, to be honest.

[Greasy Will]

Honestly, I. I'm gonna be honest, man. If I ever get that kind of money. Like walking around with bodyguards money.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

Oh, that's all I'm gonna do?

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Greasy Will]

All I'm gonna do. So he would throw crazy parties and then disappear. He's a weird dude right now. He's. He's like. He. He'd throw these crazy parties and then disappear the whole night and then reappear right as people are about to leave. And he would get super mad if the girls wanted to go home. Super mad. Massive.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I'm not surprised.

[Greasy Will]

He has got real. He hates to be alone, first of all. And he establishes this. But he also just has, like. Specifically when women want to leave, he is. He gets upset every single time.

[Host 2]

Not cool with him. Yeah, Phil would.

[Greasy Will]

This is from Emil Farkas again from Breaking down the Wall of Sound. Phil would get very upset if women walked out on him. Farkas says he would rant and rave. You'll never work again. I'll get you fired, Whatever. But then again, you'd have this thing at parties where you might have 20 girls each, and each one would try to last out the other to see who was going to stay the night with him. But the feeling I got was that Phil sort of realized that most of these people were around for the external, rather the internal. And he would have preferred that he wasn't liked for the limousines and the money and all that. He would have really liked to be loved for himself. And there were girls who liked him for that. I think the problem was that Phil could never believe that these people could love him for who he was.

[Host 2]

I'm not surprised he had trouble believing people could love him for who he was because he's a dick.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I mean, it's sad, but I'm also.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, yeah, it is very strong. Like, yeah, dude, of course nobody like Stifler, right? It's like Stifler, like, yeah, of course no one likes you, bro.

[Host 2]

You're a giant prick to everyone, man. Like, yeah, you're not liked, right?

[Greasy Will]

You know who won't get mad when you try and leave their parties in the middle of the night? These. These sponsors who pay money.

[Host 1]

I'm going to say me, because if my parties don't go that late, so.

[Host 2]

But the party of capitalism, that one keeps on going forever.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ad Voice 2]

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[Greasy Will]

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[Greasy Will]

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[Greasy Will]

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[Host 2]

And we're back. Okay, Will take it away.

[Greasy Will]

Yes. So it's 1964. The Ronettes toured England with the Beatles. They go, they do actually go to the Beatles to tour with the Beatles. And Phil insists on being there. He is super jealous of it. He does not like it. You gotta keep in mind too, the Beatles are the next evolutionary step in this chain we went to. Now producers and bands are gone. And Phil Spector represented the most important version of that. But it's 1964 and the Beatles are about to cross over in America. And Phil Spector is incredibly threatened by them. They have been tearing up the charts and kind of pushing him out very much so. So when the Ronnets are asked to go on tour with the Beatles, he's like. And so he goes to England to supervise, you know, he has to go over and watch and make sure no one's putting the moves on the old girl, you know. He said, from Ronnie, this is from Be My Baby Ronnie's book. Phil never came out and said it, but I could tell he didn't like the idea of us spending too much time with the Beatles. I don't think his ego could stand the competition. Yeah, The Beatles were leaving to start their first U.S. tour in a few days, and when John asked me if we wanted to fly back with them on their charter jet, I didn't have the nerve to ask Phil if it was okay. So I made my mom make the suggestion, you know Phil. She told him it might be good publicity if the girls went back on. On the jet with the Beatles. No, he told her, I've already bought their tickets and that was all that said. So he tells him, nah, man, I got tickets for you already. You can't fly back on the plane with the Beatles. Are you crazy? I'm just gonna let my girlfriend get on a fucking plane? A private plane with a bunch of rockets? Hell, no. That's a horrible idea. Yeah. Hell no. So he buys them private or commercial flights back, right? She says, she continues, my mother. And they landed the next day at jfk. And she says, my mother and I watched the whole thing on tv. We were amazed at how many kids showed up at the airport screaming and carrying banners. But what surprised me even more was something that happened after the plane landed. The jet was on the ground and the camera zoomed in on the door that was about to open up to give America its first glimpse of the Fab Four. But when that hatch finally did swing open, who do you think was with them? I almost fainted when I looked at the TV and saw Phil Spector following the Beatles out of their place. So. So he's like, you can't fly back with the Beatles. And then he flies back with the Beatles.

[Host 2]

I want to be. I want to fly back with the Beatles. Absolutely.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah. Yeah. So, like, there's like thousands of people greeting him at the airport, and they're like. And there's Phil Spector, and they're like that sick fuck. Amazing. Amazing pettiness.

[Host 2]

Amazing.

[Greasy Will]

That is Tom Petty right there, dude. That's amazing.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's like a grand level of dickory. Like, it's spectacular.

[Greasy Will]

You can't ride with the hottest band that's going on in the world right now, but I can. And you have to take a step.

[Host 2]

I'm definitely going to be There.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah. So funny. So Ronnie's life keeps, like, it's more and more confined. She's starting to get kind of more trapped by Phil, and. And Phil starts working repeatedly at this studio, Goldstar. I mentioned it before. It was like the scene of his wall of sound. And it's really important. Like, it is kind of like a big deal. It's Haight Ashbury for the hippie movement or, you know, or Woodstock or whatever. It's an important moment in time where a bunch of people come together for a thing that is, like, significant. And Goldstar is there. Goldstar is where the Wrecking Crew kind of was born. It's where Phil was doing all these hits. And it's a shithole, for the record. But Phil loves it. He turns it into his fortress, right? He just like. Like, he. No one's allowed to come in unless he says so. He's booking so much time there. Like, he lives in this studio, and at this studio, he. He is working with Sonny Bono and Cher. Sonny Bono.

[Host 2]

Side bastard.

[Greasy Will]

Side bastard. Sonny Bono. Sonny Bono. We're gonna side bastard Sonny Bono. Sonny Bono is a. Is a big, giant dick. And we. First of all, bro, he's like the most. First of all. First of all. I mean, the Copyright Protections act that he did just so Disney could keep Mickey Mouse in fucking. In their. In their. That. That sucks. Right? But also, how do you go from being Sonny and Cher, like, this whole. Like, they. They sang on Mamas and Papa songs and stuff. Yeah, yeah, they were. How do you do that and then become a Republican senator? You know? Like, that's like the ultimate betrayal of a human being.

[Host 2]

Sony, Bono ended as a. Yeah. Republican senator.

[Host 1]

He wasn't.

[Greasy Will]

Nice to be a Republican sellout. Senator fucker.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Amazing.

[Greasy Will]

He was the one. And also the subject of one of my favorite Eminem lines. Sonny Bono skis horses and hitting some trees. Oh, I love that. Great. So Ronnie develops a close relationship with Cher, who became one of the few people that Ronnie could confide in because she is also living. Very similar situation at this time. Sonny and Cher is about as famous as Ike and Tina, about as famous as Ronnie and Phil. Ironic that they would all work together with Phil, right? Very strange. And it's really interesting, too, because in all of these situations, it shows that the men in these situations who are very dominant to their women also are all subservient to Phil. Sonny Bono bends over for Phil, like, completely. Like, he is. He.

[Host 2]

Absolutely interesting.

[Greasy Will]

He is. He is. He lets. I mean, he. I mean, Phil is the The God at the time. Sonny Bono is nobody. He's a gopher. He's a runner at a studio. And Phil treats him like a runner at the studio. He is horrible to him. He treats him awfully. Side note, this is a really funny story. When Ronnie first met Cher, she thought she was a hooker. She, like. She, like, met this.

[Host 1]

Cher was a hooker?

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, she thought Cher was a hooker. She was like, oh, this must be Sonny Bono's hooker. Oh, my God. And she just. She just says that, which is really funny. There's a lot of things in these, like, interviews and books and stuff that I've read. Like, I love Phil Spector, so I've read many books on him. I watch every documentary. I love Phil Spector, and I'm so interested by him. So when I watch and read all these things, it's insane to see, like, how open and honest people are about the horrible things that they think and say out loud. It's so crazy. Why did you write this in a book? You wrote that you thought Cher was a hooker?

[Host 2]

I didn't tell anyone that. You didn't need to say that.

[Greasy Will]

That was. It was totally free to shut the fuck up. It cost no money.

[Host 2]

You want it?

[Greasy Will]

No one's gonna be like, hey, man, do you ever think Cher was a hooker?

[Host 2]

Right? Like, you just. Yeah, okay.

[Host 1]

Incredible.

[Greasy Will]

So funny. So anyway, so they got a complicated relationship, Sonny and. And Phil. And it blossoms into this very, like, subservient relationship where Sonny just does everything that Phil asks. He.

[Host 2]

He.

[Greasy Will]

He, like, whatever Phil tells him. Like, hey, don't let the girls do this. He's like, okay. And he becomes, like, an enforcer for Cher and Ronnie Bennett's relationship in a lot of ways. And it's very. Again, he's, like, getting other people to carry out his, like, possessive, weird details of his life and stuff. It's very strange.

[Host 1]

Gives me the ick.

[Greasy Will]

All right, so Phil has had a killer career, right? He's had a killer career. Things have been going good for him. The Beatles come to America. Things start to change. He does. He still has some hits. Things are going good or whatever, but. But we're about to hit 1966. And in 1966, he produced River Deep, Mountain High for Tina Turner.

[Host 1]

Tina Turner, Yes.

[Greasy Will]

And he. To him, he says, this was the greatest thing he ever did. It was the ultimate realization of the wall of sound. It was. If you listen to this song, it

[Host 1]

is such a phenomenal song.

[Greasy Will]

It's phenomenal. It's a cacophony of sound. It is.

[Host 2]

Absolutely.

[Greasy Will]

It is. I mean, it's like you cannot tell, other than Tina's voice. You cannot tell a single thing that is happening in the background. You can kind of hear, like, a guitar riff in the beginning, but that could be anything, right? It's like the whole sound is so amorphous. It has no shape, it has no body. It's so drenched in reverb. And it's just noise behind what's going on. It's so brilliant and so beautiful and it's. Yeah, it does rip. And it's very reminiscent of, like, modern day, like, shoegaze type stuff is like this, you know, it's got a really cool atmosphere. It's all atmosphere and emotion.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

Even notoriously shitty side bastards. Notoriously shitty side bastard. Ike Turner Bound. It is.

[Host 2]

It is a music industry episode. We're gonna have a lot of side bastards.

[Host 1]

I just really like the sidebar sound effect.

[Host 2]

Yeah, we may have.

[Greasy Will]

I recorded that myself as well, by the way. Yeah, I definitely. I think it should make it into the regular rotation.

[Host 2]

It's so nice.

[Host 1]

I have a soundboard. I need it.

[Host 2]

There we go.

[Greasy Will]

It's so good. It's so good. Yeah. So notoriously shitty side bastard. Ike Turner revered Phil. Let him be in control. You're talking about a band. Ike and the Ike Ettes. Right? Featuring Tina Turner. Like, we're talking. Ike is the control freak of control freaks.

[Host 1]

And even he's submissive to this weird little guy.

[Greasy Will]

Sophie, in the beginning, we asked this question. Why do we allow people to be horrible and shitty and just because they can make a really cool. It's the same. It's the same world. Why do those people allow this other person who's also shitty to get away with being in control of them? Because the music industry, because you can write a good song, you can get away with murder. Sort of. Not. Not completely. Spoiler alert.

[Host 1]

I mean, like, do people like.

[Greasy Will]

He is visibly wearing bags.

[Host 1]

Yeah, that's my point.

[Greasy Will]

He's visibly wearing wigs. Nobody is confused about this. And he is wearing platform shoes. He is 5 foot 3. He's wearing platform shoes that barely make him 5 5, which is still really, really short.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

You know, no offense.

[Ad Voice 1]

Short kicks.

[Greasy Will]

No, no.

[Host 2]

There's nothing wrong with it, but it clearly is fucking with him.

[Host 1]

I mean, this is what. This is what pops up when I searched Phil Spector in 1966.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Greasy Will]

Look at the hair.

[Host 2]

Oh, no, the glasses, the sideways diamond glasses. Those are amazing.

[Greasy Will]

This is a little early for this.

[Host 2]

Those glasses are nicely whip, but But

[Greasy Will]

I want to share this picture real quick because this is also very important. Robert. God, I have been waiting to show you this picture. I can't wait. This is so good. All right, so this is Phil Spector in 1966. Around this same time. Around the same time, yeah. This is him with his security guard, George Brandt. Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

So they're sitting in some sort of old timey van and George Brandt, like, Phil is in George Brandt's lap. He looks like a child. George even has cause Phil's holding a gun and pointing it out the window. And he's got like a fucking. Like, what's that kind of thing?

[Greasy Will]

It looks like a Labrador or like a dog. Like a poodle. Like a poodle hair situation going on in his head.

[Host 1]

No, it's a blue clay hat.

[Host 2]

He's pointing a gun. And his bodyguard has his arm around Phil and is like holding him in place. And his hand is like, as big as both of Phil's hands put together. Like one hand. Like, the contrast between the two men is jarring.

[Host 1]

It's the, like the flappier hats. It's incredible.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

As a.

[Host 2]

In short, it is very fun.

[Host 1]

Myself.

[Greasy Will]

It is very fun. So incredible. I cannot believe that he took that picture and was like, yeah, print that shit.

[Host 1]

Crazy.

[Greasy Will]

It's so funny. He's. He's a tiny person. That really gives you, like a perspective. He's a tiny person and he looks

[Host 2]

very silly posing with a gun.

[Greasy Will]

George Brand, this is George Brandon. George Brand is a kind of big. He's like 6:1 or something like that, but he's not. That's not huge. That's me. I'm six foot. You know, he's like my size, but

[Host 2]

he looks like a giant compared to him.

[Greasy Will]

He looks like he's holding his child,

[Host 1]

Ike Turner and Sonny bowing to him in submission.

[Greasy Will]

That's crazy. Yes. Yeah, that's crazy. But that's the power of a hit maker. That's the power of a hit maker. That's pretty cool.

[Host 1]

It's like kind of cold being somebody

[Greasy Will]

who's controlling the industry. And that kind of power is. But, but as I said. Well, I didn't say it, but spoiler alert, it doesn't last long. He produced this River Deep Mountain High for Tina Turner. And he spends enormous amount of money. This is signed to his label, to the Phyllis Records, and he spends a ton of money. Right? Emotional energy, just everything. Time. He puts everything. This is his magna opus. This is his thing, right? He thinks it's the best thing he's ever done. Massive orchestration, intricate layering. One of the most powerful vocal performances ever recorded. Spector later described it as the greatest work of his career.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

In the United States, it failed miserably.

[Host 2]

That's so wild.

[Greasy Will]

It fails horribly now.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

Spector says Spector's belief and a lot of people's belief. I've heard a lot of opinions on this, but the belief is generally it was too white for black audiences and too black for white audience audiences. It was that rare moment of in between. It had orchestration and. But it had Tina, but it had Wall of Sound Mud, but it had Tina. But, you know, it's like, it's like it was so confusing for DJs at the time because you either played race records or you played white records. And that was it. Like, it was like, where does this fall? We don't know. Phil Spector is taking this to a logical, like, conclusion, but it, it just doesn't hit.

[Host 2]

Yeah,

[Greasy Will]

this it did. It did have success in the United Kingdom. In the uk, it did chart. But the domestic rejection just devastated him. For a man who equated control with emotional safety, the failure felt deeply personal. If he could not guarantee success through perfection, then his entire identity as a producer was suddenly unstable. Right. So this, this breaks him. Like, this is the breaking point. It. He. He takes out a full page ad in a newspaper in America saying Benedict Arnold was right. Whoa. Yeah, Because England liked it and America didn't. Whoa.

[Host 2]

That's nuts. That's a crazy place for your head to go.

[Host 1]

Get in the fuck.

[Host 2]

Benedict Arnold was right. Yeah, okay, bro.

[Greasy Will]

So after that, everybody's like, okay, well, we're not spinning this record anymore. This dude just called us all traitors. Like, he said. He said, England should have won the war.

[Host 2]

Yeah, fuck that guy. That's a little much crazy.

[Greasy Will]

So Phil's farrier with Riverdeep Mountain High caused him to pull out of music completely. He announced his retirement from music and spent the days wandering around his mansion, despondent and depressed. This is a common theme with Phil as well. He spends a lot of time wandering around his mansion. Depression. Dennis Hopper was actually chronicling the process of making River Deep Mountain High. He was doing like a documentary film on the process. And because he'd been around, he saw this and how it reacted. Phil, he offers Phil a job playing a drug dealer. An Easy Rider, which is an amazing, amazing film, amazing role. They said literally, they're like, yeah, we gave him a. We let him be an easy rider. The story I read framed it as like, oh, yeah, you know, like it'll pick him up, it'll make him feel better. But then when you actually hear like the Dennis Hopper interview, he's like, yeah, he had a Rolls Royce and he would let us use it if we put him in the movie.

[Host 2]

We couldn't afford it otherwise. It was Easy Rider, you know.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, we're making money, $5,000. So other than that, other than his time on Easy Rider, he spent most of his time playing pool and often hanging with his friend, Lenny Bruce. Are you familiar with Lenny Bruce?

[Host 2]

Oh my God, of course Lenny Bruce. I mean, Lenny Bruce was the inspired George Carlin. He's kind of the er. He's not.

[Greasy Will]

He's like the first stand up guy comic. Yeah, but he's like the first comic,

[Host 2]

some people would say the first really good stand up comedian. But yeah, yeah, he's a big dude.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, Phil loves him, right? Phil just idolizes him. He thinks he's amazing. He's Phil Spector. So he's big enough to just be like, yeah, I'll just hang. Lenny Bruce is, by the way, in his personal life a massive. A piece of shit.

[Host 2]

Basically not a nice and horrible at drug problems.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, he has horrible drug problems, Horrible everything problems. Lenny Bruce is a mess. And for, for those of you who are not familiar with Lenny Bruce, I. If you look it up, you're going to be a lot. There's a lot of N word Lenny Bruce rants is what I'm saying. Oh yeah, yeah, a lot, a lot.

[Host 1]

They also try to like fictionalize, romanticize them in that Marvelous Mrs. Maisel show that was on Amazon. They make him a, a character in that and they make him like this, like. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Because a lot of ways, rightly beloved because of his influence on like comedy from a freedom of speech standpoint, which he really did take a stand and pay for.

[Greasy Will]

Yes.

[Host 2]

But that they also whitewash a lot of like, he was, he was a messy motherfucker among comedians and stand up comedians are almost all messy bitches.

[Greasy Will]

There's a lot of stories about him showing up at Phil's house and like. And like, you know, Phil having to like basically kick him out and be like. And apologize to his guests. Phil, Phil, the guy who held people at gunpoint, waved guns around, had to be like, yeah, guys, sorry, Lenny's messy. Yeah, yeah, hey listen, Lenny's messy guys.

[Host 2]

You know, my friend doesn't always use the right terms. He can be kind of inappropriate.

[Greasy Will]

All right, so the two men bonded over a shared sense of being misunderstood outsiders navigating industries that simultaneously rewarded and rejected them, which is extremely valid. They're both kind of outsiders while also being like, praised and glorified and also

[Host 2]

kind of at the top of their. Their careers or kind of at the

[Greasy Will]

top of their feet. Very strange. Bruce admired Spectre's musical intensity, and Spectre appeared to be drawn to Bruce's defiant rejection of authority and social norms. He quotes Lenny Bruce all the time. He'll be Lenny Bruce says, you know, it's like always how he goes. He loves Lenny Bruce. He loves Lenny Bruce so much that Phil keeps a blown up image of Lenny Bruce above his bed.

[Host 2]

What? Oh, What? Oh, what?

[Greasy Will]

Ronnie Ron.

[Host 2]

Okay, so we're assuming famous guys who like being wasted together. Okay.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, it's weird.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Greasy Will]

What? When I wrote this, I literally had this like, funny mental image of me having a Robert Evans above my bed. And like, you're shirtless, you know, like just like Jesus Christ, you know, over the shoulder kind of look, you know, just like I was like, yes, dude. That's how I want my relationship with Robert to be is like quasi sexual in nature.

[Host 2]

Lenny Bruce relationship. Sure, absolutely.

[Host 1]

My goodness.

[Host 2]

So.

[Greasy Will]

So Spector's get. He gets his belief that he's existing outside of conventional society by hanging out with Lenny Bruce. It validates that for him, you know, and that society just didn't understand him. This is why River Deep, Mountain High failed. It's just like Lenny Bruce, right? It's like society just doesn't get how important this, this is.

[Host 1]

But then, but then Lenny, Lenny dies.

[Greasy Will]

But then Lenny Bruce does die, doesn't he?

[Host 2]

He has a long life expectancy as a Lenny Bruce type.

[Greasy Will]

On August 3, 1966, Lenny was found on the floor of his bathroom with his pants around his ankles and a needle stuck in his arm. Yeah, yeah, that's how that, that goes, right? He died of an overdose. He died of an overdose on the toilet. Which is very Elvis and sad. I mean, very Lenny Bruce. Yeah, very Lenny Bruce. Yeah, Lenny Bruce was the original Lenny Bruce. The OG Dino in the toilet.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

So Phil was devastated to lose his friend. He's so sad about this. And again mopes around the house for days, you know, But a few days later, a cop shows up at his. I think it was his lawyer's house. It was. Might have. It was either his friend or a lawyer. But cop shows up and says, hey, I got these pictures of Lenny Bruce from the crime scene. Either you buy them or I'm selling them to the tabloids. Right? And so Phil spent 5k of his own money, just. He purchased them, spent $5,000 of his own money, which at that time is like a house.

[Host 2]

Yeah. That's a lot of money. Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

You know, spends $5,000 of his own money to purchase those photos, to keep them out of the press. He also paid for Lenny's funeral. And then after Lenny's funeral, he locked himself in his house for weeks on end and didn't talk to anybody because he was so depressed at the loss of his friend.

[Host 2]

Fuck me.

[Greasy Will]

It's one of those real.

[Host 2]

It's weird that he is capable of deeply caring for someone. And it's Lenny Bruce.

[Greasy Will]

Yeah, okay. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. It's a really weird moment. Cause you're like, oh, that's sad. But also, this is the first really

[Host 2]

human emotion we've gotten. Like, yeah, okay, interesting.

[Greasy Will]

But also.

[Host 2]

Huh.

[Greasy Will]

You know, back to Ronnie, right. Ronnie's mom finally is like, you guys aren't really married, right? So. So she's like, you're not living with somebody if you're not married to them. She, like, loses her mind over the whole thing.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

She's like, you guys need to get married. Right? So Phil, you know, he still lies to her. He tries, like, lying, but she comes out to California and she's like, nope, don't believe you. And so she takes Ronnie and makes her move back to New York, which is, again, very crazy. This is like an era where being 21 is actually what's considered an adult at this time. I mean, it kind of still is a little bit, but in the manner of, like, if you were under 21, you could actually be told what to do by your parents still, you know. Yeah.

[Host 2]

You're not really an independent parent.

[Greasy Will]

No money and also of shit. Anyway, so she forces her to move back to New York. Ronnie hates being in New York. She hates being around her relatives. She feels like they're all, like, gold diggers kind of, and she wants to get back to California. So Phil comes and rescues her and takes her back to California. But as soon as they get back, he gets right back into being jealous, you know? And it wasn't until she threatens to leave him that he finally does commit to marrying her here.

[Host 2]

A.

[Greasy Will]

Well, they're planning to be married on April 14, but MLK was shot and killed on April 4. And Phil goes into a despair. It's super common. Phil, anytime somebody famous dies that he has had any association with at all, which does happen a lot, you know, 60s and all, he Falls into, like, these horrible depressive states where he just, like, mopes around. He was just playing MLK speeches on repeat in his house at, like, top volume, which I'm sure he had a killer stereo, right? He's still spent. So, yeah, he's just blasting MLK speeches at, like, top volume in his house and, like, crying in the living room. It's, like, super crazy. Which brings me to a point about Phil that I think is super interesting. For all of Phil's flaws, racism is never one of them. Not once, not ever. He is always. When we look at these relationships, it's like, it is always black girl groups that he's, like, you know, doing this abuse to. But black is never really, like, a consideration. It is women that is the consideration

[Host 2]

that, like, he has an issue with women, Right?

[Greasy Will]

For as awful as he is, he's never awful about black people. He loves black people. In fact, Ronnie thinks that he wished he was black. And he cried. Cried tears when MLK died.

[Host 2]

Given, like, the industry he's in at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense, actually. Yeah.

[Greasy Will]

So he eventually snaps out of his depression, and they return to their wedding plans. They get married on the 14th. The marriage itself was performed at a justice of the peace ceremony. They know, for a millionaire record producer, he doesn't. He half asses the hell out of it. He does justice of the peace. And as someone who's done a couple justice of the peace marriages, you know, I get it, right? Sometimes you just want to get it over with, you know, I got stuff to do today.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I've done one.

[Greasy Will]

His chauffeur's brother was his best man. After the wedding, they celebrated by going to a concert. And then Phil sent Ronnie and her mother home with his driver and went to visit his mother out of guilt of not having told her about the wedding. So he feels bad. He's like, oh, actually, I can't believe I didn't tell my mom about the wedding. I should have told her about this.

[Host 2]

I got in trouble for that, right?

[Greasy Will]

So I probably should have done that. So he goes, right? And Ronnie and her mom go back to the house, right? Ronnie goes home. She puts on some lingerie. She gets wedding night, bro. We. Wedding night. You know, she gets all up, and she waits and waits and waits and waits. Hours go by. Phil does not come back. And she's like, okay, well, what the hell? Finally, he returns home, late as hell, drunk as hell, and he's mad. He walked into our room. She says, this is from her book. Be my baby. Quote when he walked into our room, I could tell the last thing he was interested in was my body. Remember, she's wearing lingerie and everything. He was a completely different person than the man I had sat with at the concert three hours earlier. You bitch. He shouted. I couldn't believe how mad he looked and worse than I'd ever seen him. He was raving so loud that the veins in his neck were bulging blue. I know your game, Veronica. He shouted. You just want my money. That is it, isn't it? I was so scared that I got up and ran out of the bedroom and into the hallway. If Phil was going to kill me, I wanted him to do it where he there might be witnesses. What's wrong, Phil? What did your mother tell you? The truth. He panted. That this whole marriage is about one thing. My money. He was so mad he could barely catch his breath. Now Ronnie and her mother locked themselves inside a bathroom for hours, hiding from Phil's rage and unpredictable behavior. Quote. My mother and I had been living on that pale blue carpet for over an hour when Phil finally wore himself out and went to bed. After that, we got kind of drowsy ourselves. I was just drifting off to sleep when I heard my mother sigh. Ronnie, Ronnie, Rani, what did you marry? I moved in close to her and I started to cry. Isn't this something? I sniffed. Here it is, my wedding night, and I'm spending it curled up on the bathroom floor with my mother.

[Host 2]

Geez.

[Greasy Will]

Wow. So it is her wedding day. Her wedding day, her wedding day. He goes to a show and then he comes home drunk, drops her off, comes home drunk, screaming and threatening her. An hour. He spent an hour banging on the bathroom door, threatening her, screaming at her, with her and her mom just in the bathroom, cuddled up on the floor, crying.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Greasy Will]

And that extremely happy moment. Cool. Is where we will leave this episode. Great.

[Host 2]

That's part two, baby.

[Greasy Will]

Part two, done. I am greasy, Will. You can find me all over the Internet. I have lots of things for sale if you ever wanna buy them. And it is the same thing. You're supporting people's. You're supporting people's livelihoods.

[Host 2]

That's right. Their dreams.

[Greasy Will]

Yes. My assistants, they're drug free. So you know when I pay them money, it's not going to drugs.

[Host 2]

That's right.

[Greasy Will]

That is super courteous. That's the best you can say about anybody.

[Host 2]

That's right. That's right. Whereas I take all of my profits and hand them out underneath a bridge so that people can buy drugs. Not me.

[Greasy Will]

You might as well pay me in heroin. You know, like just pay me in heroin.

[Host 2]

Just pay the strangers I give money to in heroin.

[Greasy Will]

You are Robert Evans, my good friend and found it. I writeokay on the Internet and also here and on Netflix. On Netflix. You might be watching this on the Netflix bro. This is the closest I will ever come to success. You could watch this and then watch

[Host 2]

another one of Netflix's classic hit shows like whatever movie is out now.

[Greasy Will]

That one about that pervert guy that kidnaps people and keeps them in their basement.

[Host 2]

Sure, you could be watching the pervert next.

[Host 1]

Wow. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia. Com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of behind the Basterds are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday hit Remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com BehindTheBastards we love about 40% of you, statistically speaking.

[Greasy Will]

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[Greasy Will]

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[Greasy Will]

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[Greasy Will]

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[Greasy Will]

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[Greasy Will]

Xumo is easy.

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[Host 2]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Greasy Will]

Guaranteed Human.