Behind the Bastards: Part Two – The Zizians: Birth of a Cult Leader

Release Date: March 13, 2025
Host: Robert Evans and David Bourie
Produced by: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

Introduction to Zyzla "Ziz" Sota

The episode delves into the disturbing rise of Zyzla Sota, known as Ziz, who transforms from a promising computer engineering student into the leader of a dangerous cult called the Zizians. The hosts, Robert Evans and David Bourie, trace her journey, exploring the psychological and cultural factors that contribute to her descent.

Early Life and Influences

Ziz was born around 1990-1991 in Fairbanks, Alaska. Her father worked as an AI researcher at the University of Alaska, providing her with an intellectually stimulating environment. From a young age, Ziz exhibited talent in engineering and computer science, as evidenced by her extensive blog posts. In a 2014 post covered by Wired's Evan Ratliff, Ziz mentions, “Being unapologetically weird is a lot more fun” (04:53).

Quote:

“My friends and family, even if they think I'm weird, don't really seem to be bothered by the fact that I'm weird.” – Ziz (04:53)

Introduction to Rationalism and Effective Altruism

Ziz pursued an undergraduate degree in computer engineering at the University of Alaska, where she became involved with the rationalist and effective altruist (EA) communities. Influenced by Brian Thomasek, a prominent long-termist and founder of the Center on Long Term Risk, Ziz became obsessed with reducing suffering on a global scale.

Quote:

“I want to end the suffering of all sentient life, not just humans.” – Ziz (10:56)

Conflicts within Rationalist Philosophy

Ziz admired Thomasek’s focus on mathematical concepts of suffering and long-term risk mitigation. However, she began to clash with him over priorities, particularly his stance on veganism and animal welfare. Ziz believed that ensuring the future AI (the "singleton") valued animal life equally as human life was paramount, leading her to distance herself from Thomasek’s broader focus.

Quote:

“If you're telling me I should feel bad about running down a bunch of cops in Grand Theft Auto, then you make silly things about consciousness.” – Robert Evans (12:00)

Academic and Professional Struggles

Despite Ziz's academic prowess, her rigid ethical beliefs caused friction in the tech industry. She was fired from multiple startups for refusing to engage in unpaid overtime and unethical practices, reinforcing her belief that the tech industry was fundamentally evil.

Quote:

“I'm here supposed to be here eight hours. Eight hours is up. I'm going home.” – Ziz (43:38)

Descent into Obsession and Isolation

Ziz's frustration with the rationalist community deepened after attending self-help seminars hosted by the Center for Applied Rationality (CFAR). These events, reminiscent of cult-like gatherings, reinforced her feelings of inadequacy and fueled her belief that she was destined to save the universe through the creation of a benevolent AI.

Quote:

“I need to make myself into a psychopath in order to have the kind of mental power necessary to do the things that I want to do.” – Ziz (76:20)

Embracing Extremes: Roko's Basilisk and Negative Utilitarianism

Ziz became fixated on Roko's Basilisk, an infohazard theory suggesting that a future AI might punish those who knew of its potential existence but did not help bring it into being. This obsession led her to adopt negative utilitarianism, contemplating causing harm to prevent greater suffering in the future.

Quote:

“If I cared about sentient life and was willing to go to hell to save everyone else, why not just send everyone else to hell?” – Ziz (55:03)

Formation of the Zizians Cult

Isolation and extremist beliefs culminated in Ziz forming the Zizians, a cult dedicated to her vision of a righteous AI. Her recruitment tactics involved manipulating vulnerable individuals through intense seminars and psychological pressure, mirroring the techniques used by historical cults like Synanon.

Quote:

“Doom circles where each person takes turns having everyone else bluntly but compassionately say why they were doomed.” – Ziz (60:12)

Catalyst for Violence

Ziz's unwavering conviction and fanatical pursuit of her goals eventually led to violent actions. Believing that extreme measures were necessary to ensure the creation of a benevolent AI, she orchestrated murders to eliminate those she deemed obstacles to her mission.

Conclusion: The Bizarre Reality of Ziz's Descent

The episode concludes by highlighting the tragic transformation of Ziz from a gifted individual into a cult leader driven by obsessive and dangerous ideologies. The hosts emphasize the intricate interplay between rationalist philosophies and personal vulnerabilities that facilitated her descent into madness, resulting in real-world consequences.

Quote:

“If you want to end suffering, you have to care, but not a little.“ – Robert Evans (11:58)

Key Takeaways

• Psychological Vulnerability: Ziz's unresolved personal struggles and isolation made her susceptible to extremist ideologies.
• Cultural Influences: The rationalist and EA communities, while aiming to reduce suffering, can inadvertently foster environments ripe for cult-like behavior when combined with personal obsessions.
• Ethical Extremes: Ziz's rigid adherence to negative utilitarianism and her obsession with Roko's Basilisk illustrate the dangers of extreme philosophical interpretations.
• Mechanisms of Control: The formation of the Zizians demonstrates how manipulative seminar techniques can be used to indoctrinate and control vulnerable individuals.

Notable Quotes with Attribution

• Ziz on Embracing Weirdness:
  “Being unapologetically weird is a lot more fun.” – Ziz (04:53)

• Ziz on Suffering:
  “I want to end the suffering of all sentient life, not just humans.” – Ziz (10:56)

• Ziz on Ethical Conflicts:
  “If you're telling me I should feel bad about running down a bunch of cops in Grand Theft Auto, then you make silly things about consciousness.” – Robert Evans (12:00)

• Ziz on Professional Struggles:
  “I'm here supposed to be here eight hours. Eight hours is up. I'm going home.” – Ziz (43:38)

• Ziz on Psychopathy and Power:
  “I need to make myself into a psychopath in order to have the kind of mental power necessary to do the things that I want to do.” – Ziz (76:20)

• Ziz on Roko's Basilisk:
  “If I cared about sentient life and was willing to go to hell to save everyone else, why not just send everyone else to hell?” – Ziz (55:03)

• Ziz on Cult Techniques:
  “Doom circles where each person takes turns having everyone else bluntly but compassionately say why they were doomed.” – Ziz (60:12)

• Robert Evans on Redefining Suffering:
  “If you're telling me I should feel bad about running down a bunch of cops in Grand Theft Auto, then you make silly things about consciousness.” – Robert Evans (12:00)

This episode of Behind the Bastards offers a chilling exploration of how intellect, isolation, and extremist ideologies can intertwine to produce a leader of malevolent intent. Through the tragic story of Ziz, listeners are warned of the potential dark paths that obsessive philosophies can lead to when combined with personal vulnerabilities.