Behind the Numbers: Digital Health Trends for 2025—DTC Drugs and How Rising Health Costs Are Changing Consumer Behavior | Jan 27, 2025

Summary

Behind the Numbers: Digital Health Trends for 2025—DTC Drugs and Rising Health Costs

Podcast: Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast
Host: Marcus
Guests: Rajiv Leventhal (Senior Digital Health Analyst, New Jersey) and Dane Finley (Senior Digital Health Analyst, Virginia)
Release Date: January 27, 2025

In the January 27, 2025 episode of Behind the Numbers, host Marcus engages in a compelling discussion with senior digital health analysts Rajiv Leventhal and Dane Finley. The episode delves into two significant trends shaping the digital health landscape for 2025: the rise of Direct-to-Consumer (DTC) healthcare and pharmaceutical services, and the impact of escalating health costs on consumer behavior.

1. The Rise of Direct-to-Consumer Healthcare and Pharmaceuticals

Rajiv Leventhal kicks off the conversation by highlighting a pivotal shift in the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries. Traditionally, these sectors have relied heavily on intermediaries such as health insurers and pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) to reach consumers. However, Rajiv notes a transformative movement towards DTC models, allowing companies to establish direct relationships with patients.

Rajiv Leventhal [03:57]: “More companies in healthcare and pharma will move into the direct-to-consumer market, cutting out middlemen to reach patients directly and generate revenue through alternative sales channels.”

**Examples of this trend are evident with giants like Eli Lilly and Pfizer, who have launched DTC websites enabling consumers to consult with affiliated telehealth providers and access prescription medications directly. Rajiv explains how this streamlined process allows patients to receive medications without the traditional friction points associated with insurance and PBM involvement.

Rajiv Leventhal [05:10]: “You can go on these pharmaceutical company websites, talk to a telehealth provider affiliated with them, and receive your medication shipped to your home within a day or two.”

Dane Finley adds to the discussion by addressing the ethical and regulatory challenges accompanying this shift. He points out that the direct connection between pharmaceutical companies and consumers raises potential conflicts of interest, especially when telehealth providers may be incentivized to prescribe specific drugs.

Dane Finley [17:17]: “There are legitimate concerns around the agreements between drug makers and doctors, questioning whether prescriptions are always in the best interest of the patient.”

The analysts also discuss the impact of legislative changes, such as the Inflation Reduction Act, which imposes price controls on drugs for Medicare patients, prompting pharmaceutical companies to explore DTC channels as a means to maintain profitability amidst tighter regulations.

2. Rising Healthcare Costs and Increasing Consumer Price Consciousness

Shifting focus, Dane Finley introduces the second major trend: rising healthcare costs are driving consumers to become more price-conscious. This behavior is particularly pronounced among younger generations, including Gen Z and millennials, who are more inclined to shop around for the best deals on medications, insurance plans, and medical services.

Dane Finley [10:02]: “With healthcare costs expected to rise by another 8% in 2025, consumers are increasingly compelled to compare prices for medications and services to manage their out-of-pocket expenses.”

Rajiv Leventhal elaborates on this trend by explaining that unlike purchasing consumer electronics or groceries, healthcare decisions have historically been controlled by insurance companies and healthcare providers. However, as patients bear more of the cost burden, they are gaining greater autonomy and are now more engaged in making informed healthcare choices.

Rajiv Leventhal [11:10]: “For the first time, patients are more likely to compare prices and quality for medications and treatments because they’re directly responsible for a larger share of the costs.”

The conversation also touches on the proliferation of subscription-based models and DIY health solutions. Companies like Hers and Ro are highlighted as examples of businesses offering prescription medications through subscription services, bypassing traditional insurance constraints and providing more affordable options to consumers.

Dane Finley [22:01]: “We’re seeing more subscription models where consumers can bypass insurance and access medications at lower costs, which is a direct response to the rising expenses and the need for more control over their healthcare spending.”

Furthermore, the analysts discuss the anticipated growth in over-the-counter supplements, wearable health devices, and at-home medical testing kits as consumers seek more convenient and cost-effective ways to monitor and manage their health.

3. Ethical Considerations and Regulatory Scrutiny

The episode doesn't shy away from the ethical dilemmas posed by these trends. Rajiv Leventhal raises concerns about the potential for conflicts of interest when pharmaceutical companies directly influence patient prescriptions through affiliated telehealth providers.

Rajiv Leventhal [18:27]: “It seems crazy that a consumer can request a specific medication they saw advertised and have it prescribed through a company-affiliated doctor, which blurs the line between patient care and corporate interests.”

Dane Finley concurs, emphasizing the need for stringent regulatory oversight to ensure that patient welfare remains the priority over corporate profits.

Dane Finley [25:03]: “There’s a critical question of whether every patient receiving a drug through these DTC channels truly needs it, highlighting the importance of ethical practices in this evolving landscape.”

Conclusion: Navigating the Future of Digital Health

As the discussion wraps up, Marcus commends both analysts for their insightful contributions, awarding them as "Star Bakers" for their exceptional analysis of overlapping trends. He encourages listeners to explore further details in eMarketer’s comprehensive reports available to Pro subscribers.

Marcus [26:49]: “Thank you, Rajiv and Dane, for shedding light on these transformative trends. Your insights are invaluable as we navigate the future of digital health.”

The episode closes with a brief mention of upcoming content, including a new series on Retailer Rankings, ensuring listeners are kept engaged and informed on the latest developments in digital media and marketing.

Key Takeaways:

• DTC Healthcare Growth: Pharmaceutical and healthcare companies are increasingly adopting DTC models to reach consumers directly, bypassing traditional intermediaries and providing more streamlined access to medications and services.

• Consumer Price Sensitivity: Rising healthcare costs are driving a significant portion of the population, especially younger generations, to become more price-conscious, leading to increased price comparison and the adoption of alternative purchasing models.

• Ethical and Regulatory Challenges: The convergence of corporate interests and patient care in DTC channels raises important ethical questions and necessitates robust regulatory frameworks to protect consumer interests.

By exploring these trends, the episode provides a comprehensive overview of the dynamic shifts in the digital health sector, offering valuable insights for marketers, retailers, and healthcare professionals aiming to stay ahead in an ever-evolving landscape.

Transcript

[Marcus]

Hey, gang. It's Monday, January 27th. Rajeev, Dane, and listeners, welcome to behind the Numbers, an E Marketer video podcast. I'm Marcus, and today we'll be discussing why DTC healthcare is becoming more popular and what folks are doing about the continuing rising costs of healthcare. Today I'm joined by two senior digital health analysts. One of them is based in New Jersey. It's of course, Rajiv Leventhal.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Hey, Marcus, thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

[Marcus]

And the other senior analyst is based down in va. It's Dane Finley.

[Dane Finley]

Hey, Marcus, great to see you. Excited to be here today and looking forward to jumping right in.

[Marcus]

Why does everyone look so good today? I went black. T shirt. Yikes. This was a bad choice. Leveled up. But this is where we are. Today's fact, people are increasingly more likely to listen to old songs. So something that conventional wisdom might have already told you. But old songs, defined here as released over a year and a half ago and now represent 70% of the US music market, according to music analytics firm MRC Data. So 70% of the music we listen to is old music. That's up from 65% in 2020, which is a pretty sizable jump. There was a new essay by jazz critic and music historian Ted Goya, who was noting that the 200 most popular tracks now account for less than 5% of total streams. It was twice that rate just three years ago.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

A message to the music industry, I think step your gain up. Game up for the. For new songs.

[Marcus]

Yeah, I know, you guys. It's just too easy to. To listen to the classics, isn't it?

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

Also an old person. So I don't. I don't know.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Yeah. I wonder, like, if that study looked at. How about songs 10 years and older, 20 years and older?

[Marcus]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

I love 90s rock. So they are.

[Marcus]

That's a great. Yeah, that's a great question. What. What that would have looked like if you split it out. He was arguing in the piece that the steady decline in viewership of the Grammy Awards has been an arbiter of new music's impending doom, saying that in the last 12 years, the Grammy Awards viewership has fallen from the high of 39 million to 17 last year. So they think got something to do with it. However, it's not just old songs in the article. People prefer reruns of old songs, but also old movies, it seems. He was saying that in 2024 that last year, nine of the top 10 highest grossing movies were sequels. One exception, which was wicked, but that is an adaptation of a 21 year old Broadway musical which was an adaptation of a 29 year old novel. There was a prequel of an 85 year old movie that was itself an adaptation of a 124-year-old novel. We like old things, it seems. Anyway, today's real topic, Digital health trends for 2025. This is the great behind the numbers takeoff. Digital health trends and predictions for 2025 is great British Bake off style for today's episode in which our takers or bakers will be cooking up one trend each for you. Three rounds, Signature take round one, the how it will technically play out challenge, round two and for round three, the show stopping argument. Let's meet the contestants predictions in round one which is signature take. We're going to start with Rajiv. In this round, our chefs will have one minute to explain the premise of their trend. Rajeev, what will you be cooking up for us today?

[Rajiv Leventhal]

All right, so the trend I'm baking is that more companies in health care and pharma will move into direct to consumer market so quickly. For some context, health care and pharma companies traditionally haven't had direct relationships with consumers where they sell a medical product or a health care service to them without sort of some middleman involvement, whether that's a health insurer or pharmacy benefit manager. These middlemen have a lot of control over the cost of medications and treatments and services and how easy they are to access. So that's starting to change because from you have drug makers and medical device companies and healthcare providers, telehealth players and more and more are looking to reach consumers with their products and services while cutting out some of these middlemen that in the report I said they bottleneck access to products and services. So it's just a way to more directly reach patients while potentially generating revenue through an alternative sales channel.

[Marcus]

Could you give us an example of one of these healthcare pharma brands selling prescription drugs, treatments, medical services directly to folks?

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Sure. I think the trend really took off last year when two of the world's biggest drug manufacturers, Eli Lilly and Pfize, rolled out direct to consumer websites. And essentially on these websites you can go on and this doesn't apply to all of the company medication, but some of them. So you can go on and click a button that says I want to talk to a telehealth provider that's affiliated with the pharmaceutical company. You get an appointment with the telehealth provider within minutes or hours. And you know, let's just say you're you're interested, you have a migraine, you're interested in a specific prescription drug by one of these companies. The telehealth provider, assuming they deem you eligible, can prescribe this to you, they can ship it and then the company, the pharmaceutical company will ship it to your home within a day or two. And you don't have to leave your house to do anything. You can kind of do all of this just straight through the pharmaceutical company service. And it doesn't just apply to prescription medications. You can buy over the counter products, you can order lab tests, things like that you can schedule an appointment with for a vaccine, which of course are developed by pharmaceutical companies. So again, it's just an easier way to get your products, your services, your offerings in front of more people without some of the friction points that traditionally exist in health care.

[Marcus]

Okay, so it's still, you still need a prescription and you're still in a lot of instances using insurance in some cases.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

We can get into more examples, but there are certain companies that used to roll out products and, or treatments that were prescription only, but now they're moving to the over the counter market which is direct to consumers. So one quick example before we can move on. Dexcom, they're, they're a medical device company, right. They sell continuous glucose monitors which track the blood sugar of diabetic patients in real time. Really effective, making sure you're able to like track your, your blood sugar levels without needing to constantly go to the doctor. That's what this technology enables. And while that still exists, Dexcom recently rolled out an over the counter product and it says, and you know, part of that is you don't need a prescription for this and it doesn't apply to just diabetics. You can be just a regular consumer who's interested in tracking their blood sugar. You know, we see lots of data that more people are, you know, interested in health and wellness and using technology to monitor their health in real time. So again it's, it's another way to, to reach more consumers, not just the diabetic patient population, but more consumers who are interested in tracking their health and wellness and making it easier for them to get it right. You don't now need a prescription for continuous glucose monitor when historically you have.

[Marcus]

Yeah, um, Dane, let's move to, to your trend for in round one. Which prediction are you cooking up for us today?

[Dane Finley]

Yeah, absolutely. Today I'll be cooking or baking up the following trend. And I've got some predictions to unpack there. But really this notion that the Cost of healthcare, which we know is already high in the US and unfortunately is becoming ever higher, is going to drive more consumers to really become price conscious. And we define price consciousness or being price conscious as really shopping around more. So Rajeev kind of alluded to a few of these notions, things like convenience cost. But we already know current, certainly in the present day from some of our E Marketer survey data that consumers do shop around for the best deal that can be anything from medication prices, insurance plan prices, prices for medical services. And really seeing quite a bit of that amongst younger generations, younger cohorts, folks who are gen zers or millennials being far more likely to compare some of those prices for medications, medical services. And a big part of this is cost shifting is really going to consum to patients. We have some data for this year that in 2025 the healthcare costs are supposed to rise by another 8% which you know, for the average consumer already kind of getting battered. Yeah. With, with health care costs and then some of the other costs, whether there's inflationary pressures, we know a lot of folks have, have had to deal with that. So unfortunately doesn't look like, you know, this cost shifting is going anywhere anytime soon. And because of that, you know, we also have some, some data consumers and Rajeev alluded to this are they're interested in their health, they're interested in improving their wellness and they're committed to doing that. But really we're getting to a point where I think something's got to give. People are cash strapped, prices are going up, they they still prioritize their health and wellness. So that's really kind of the crux of that trend or prediction there.

[Marcus]

This data that you're citing is really interesting. So it's from our U.S. digital health survey and it basically showing as Dane was mentioning, that comparing medication and medical service prices is a common practice with close to half of folks doing it. And by generation you've got, you know, millennials and Gen Z folks doing it, doing it more so. However, Rajiv, want to come to you for this for a second because I, I also read this as over, I mean half do. I also read this as half don't. So, you know, half of Americans don't compare prices for medication and insurance plans. And in American, in America, healthcare for most people is a thing that you buy whether you get it through your insurer, through your employer, which over half of people do or get from somewhere else and buy it on an exchange or something. For a lot of people, it's something you buy. It would be crazy if they, if, if there was a stat saying that over half of Americans don't compare food prices. So are you not surprised this isn't higher?

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Yeah. And you hit on a key point like you if we buy, we're in the market for a new tv, we're comparing the price and we're making our decision probably based on price in addition to other quality factors like quality customer reviews, et cetera. In health care, it's never really been like that. Our decisions as you touched on are largely influenced by what our insurance covers, what our doctor tells us. What are, you know, the pharmacy benefit manager which works behind the scenes.

[Dane Finley]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

What a company offers.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Yeah. What's. Yeah, exactly. And if you, you know, get your insurance to your employer, which you know, almost 2/3 of Americans do. You know, Dane touched on this in his opening segment. But insurers are cover and self insured employers are covering less medical services and products than they used to. So what that means is that patients are on the hook for it and if patients are on the hook for a little bit more of their cost. So let's just say, you know, instead of a really cheap copay for like a prescription drug, I have now have a less generous health plan and I have to now either pay more out of pocket for this prescription drug or look for another prescription drug that's like similar for the condition that I have. I'm going to be more likely to kind of look online and compare prices, compare the quality or the effectiveness of certain drugs or treatments or services. So yeah, you know, going back to your question, 50% do. 50% don't. I think it's interesting even that 50% do because most people for, for the history of time in the US have not really had much control over their healthcare costs and healthcare decision which is crazy. Like how are you not in troll control of your healthcare decision? Well, you really haven't been. It's usually the insurance company, the doctor, you know, other kind of authorities that are more in control than you, the patient. But as patients are now on the hook for more of the costs. Yeah. They're more likely to, you know, kind of do these comparison shopping things like that.

[Marcus]

You the patient and you the customer too because you are, you are both in a for profit healthcare system. Let's move to round two, gents. The how it would technically play out challenge. Our chefs will explain in more detail how they expect the trend to manifest. We'll go back to Rajiv for for to start this one DTC becoming more viable distribution channel. What does this look like throughout the year?

[Rajiv Leventhal]

So I think it will be ripe with challenges, but I don't think that the push will slow down. And, and, and let me explain why there is for, for some of these companies that are moving into direct to consumer, that the process by which you're doing so is being scrutinized by not just only you know, you know, industry companies or regulators, but the congressional members. There was a big development last year where some members of Congress were looking at pharmaceutical companies, I mentioned Eli alone, Pfizer, that have these direct to consumer offerings. And it's essentially like an extension of direct to consumer drug advertising, which is only allowed in the US and New Zealand. You know, complete, you know, TV drug ads and drug ads through other media channels. So imagine like you're, you know, on Eli Willey's website or Pfizer's website and you click a button that says talk to a doctor who can prescribe one of the company's medications. Well, I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that's a little bit of a conflict of interest, right? Like isn't the doctor supposed to do what's best for the patient? But if they're affiliated with the pharmaceutical company, are they just going to prescribe the pharmaceutical companies drugs? Whether, like determining if the patient is truly eligible and truly needs this medication. Like you can imagine some kind of dangerous consequences from this, right? Like you're kind of connecting the prescriber of the, of the drug who's you know, obviously morally and ethically obliged to do what's best for the patient, but also the company that's you know, trying to make more money when more of their drugs are in, in patients hands. So it's these, these members of Congress kind of release this entire, Basically they sent the pharmaceutical companies like a bunch of questions. They're saying we're really concerned about the conflict of interest here. Yeah, you're advertising these drugs directly to consumers. You're affiliated with providers who you want them, you know, to prescribe your products to consumers. What's going on here? Can you tell us about like the behind the scenes incentives and contractual agreements you have with doctors? And of course the pharmaceutical companies are like, no, the providers, you know, we don't pay them on like a per prescription basis. They're only able to do or they are not like affiliated with us in sort of like this close way, but they're actually instructed to do only what's best for the patient. They will only prescribe my drugs if they deem that that's what's best for the patient. But you still understand that like there are, you know, legitimate concerns around some of those agreements between drug makers and doctors. So that's a big thing to watch I think for the year ahead. However, I don't think there's enough evidence, I would say, I guess for you know, this movement to slow down. Big Pharma is dealing with some, you know, pretty significant headwinds. The inflation reduction act, if it, you know, continues under the Trump administration is going to basically in simple terms lower profits for pharma, some pharmaceutical companies, drugs because instead of just charging whatever they want now for the first time for Medicare patients, the government will actually have a say in, you know, how much these drugs cost, which is I think a big positive. But pharmaceutical companies, as you can imagine, are not in love with this, this new law. So I think that despite the scrutiny, there's enough motivation on the part of health care and pharmaceutical companies. I know we're focusing a lot of drug makers, but there's a lot of motivation to get their products and services into more patients hands. And a key way of doing that is using this direct to consumer channel.

[Dane Finley]

Yeah, and Rajiv, I think you made a great point. It kind of raises that like professionally or ethics kind of gray area with. It kind of feels like maybe with some of the platforms or things out there, is it that the, the to me as a consumer and kind of seeing it taking a step back, it feels like maybe patients or consumers have or have this illusion of, of kind of more power now where you know, I was on the subway when I was up in New York visiting not long ago and I feel like some of the marketing or advertising materials make it like oh, you want a GLP one you can kind of call us today. And it almost kind of comes off as that's something we can make happen. So it does kind of, I feel like presents some kind of a professional, almost ethical gray area a little bit where obviously there's some regulator and public scrutiny on it. But just thinking of where we kind of go with more of a direct to consumer, maybe health care, not model as a health care system but for some of these companies. And is that something we kind of foresee happening more and more where the consumer does have more say or even more power in some of these decisions?

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Yeah, it seems crazy that like a consumer is going to tell the doctor, hey, I saw this advertisement for a medication, can you prescribe it for me? And look to be fair, the doctor still is the one making a diagnosis, but it's starting to shift a little bit from like this patriarch relationship where the doctor has 100% of the control to a little bit more of like a mix where there is some, you know, sort of decision making happening on both sides. And the weight loss drugs are a great example. I probably should have brought it up earlier because look, this is the biggest, you know, trend, whether in terms of like drug, prescription drug trend we've seen in a generation. Right. So 40 to 50%, whatever number you want to use of the US is considered obese. Right. But despite the, despite the prescribing of these drugs becoming so much more rampant and frequent, really like by the week, by the month, a lot of insurers are stepping in and like we actually don't see this as medically necessary and we're not going to pay for it. So what that does is it's created this sort of cottage industry separate market of direct to consumer telehealth companies that are selling the weight loss drugs directly to patients with, while bypassing insurance. So so many people are struggling to get their hands on the drugs because they're so expensive about insurance. And then some of these other companies are like, oh, actually forget about insurance, sign up for a membership with our company and we'll prescribe these drugs to you at a lower cost. And look, it's, again, you can kind of go back to the ethics of this. Do it. Does every patient who receives a drug from one of these direct to consumer companies need it? That's a, that's a very important and critical question going forward.

[Marcus]

Yeah, just really quickly, you mentioned the share of Americans who are obese. 42%, you said. 40 to 50. I guess depends on who you're looking at. National Institute of Health, 42% of people in America are obese.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

But Even amongst that 42%, some health plans, lots of health plans we're seeing are like, well, before we prescribe you this drug where we're paying a thousand dollars a month for it. Right. For certain, like certain drugs like Ozempic, Wegovy, what have you, we want you to try, you know what they call it, step therapy. We want you to try making lifestyle modifications. We want you to try a lower cost medication first. We want you to show us that you put an effort into, you know, diets and exercise before we put you on this medication. And I think they, they make, you know, they have good, all the health insurance companies for good reason get a lot of Criticism but in this case, like I understand what they're thinking, like the default shouldn't be prescribing you this thousand dollar a month medication until you, we try to see some other actions taken first. But you know, then you, like I said, you have this cottage industry where companies are like screw the insurance who denies you, we'll just sell it directly to you at a lower cost.

[Marcus]

And you know, it's a lot of folks as well who have subscribed to a company offering prescription medication.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Hers and Ro. Yeah, yeah.

[Marcus]

You had research in your report from again from a US digital health survey, 42% of millennials, 35% of Gen Z people, almost all who could still be on the parents health insurance if they, if their parents have some. So it's a lot of folks. Dan, let's turn to your trend for round two. So cost is going up a lot. What are you looking at in 2025 as milestones, things to watch for with regards to this prediction?

[Dane Finley]

Absolutely. I think certainly I'll start with some, some of the stats, some of the things we've, we've seen, you know there's, there's been more of a, and I know a lot of employers offer the high deductible health plans where that was really meant as a way to, you know, introducing those to reduce spending. But they do require upfront spending on medical care before planned payments will kick in. Unfortunately, what we're seeing is those average deductibles for employees that have those types of plans. This is from Trillium Health. Their, their deductibles have increased by over 50% since 2007. So even though this was something that was really introduced as a means to try to bring things down again, seeing more of those deductibles go up, more of that cost shifting to employees or consumers. And then we had some, some data, we saw external data this year. 85% of employers really believe health care costs are rising. Health care costs will result in further cost shifting to employees. So what I expect to see is really more of that and kind of what I think the report works well, kind of hand in hand together really. More consumers shopping around. If it's going through more of those traditional avenues for a brand name GLP1 might be more expensive. I really like to keep my eyes on some of these subscription figures. Are consumers going to say hey, I can bypass the doctor? And this is another thought I had. Rajiv, we know trust in doctors is starting to decline. It has or not starting to decline has been Declining and is more so doing that. If we see some of that maybe misinformation, distrust, kind of push them more to those avenues. I expect to see more as well. I think some behaviors maybe people can take if it's more expensive, say to purchase the prescription. Are we going to see more folks saying hey, I want to switch over to some of these maybe behaviors Rajeev alluded to maybe dieting more, maybe smoking cessation. Maybe it's something where I'm really going to try to make an investment in healthier foods or cutting out sugary products. We know if he's confirmed RFK Jr. That's a big part of the MAHA movement is trying to remove some of those things and introduce healthier living. And I expect to see would want to look at those sales figures too. Over the counter supplements, wearable devices, whether it's things like Apple watches, woof, really trying to take more of control of their health. Get some more of that information from these wearables, that technology we do have on hand. And I expect to see too kind of a push where more folks are. I think kind of the classic example is, was during the pandemic, the at home Abbott test. Expect to see more folks. You have the ability to do blood tests at home now some of those different things expecting to see folks say hey, I want to take more of my ownership over my health in a do it yourself way, in a more convenient and less expensive way. And those are a lot of the behaviors I see that I expect to see shift throughout this year.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

I think what's really interesting is that pretty much everything Dane touched on was like, okay, what's driving this? And it's just this, this world of online health care and a greater demand for convenience just like you see in other aspects of life. Like, why should healthcare be so frustrating in terms of being able to like access certain products or services? It shouldn't have to be that way. And I think people are kind of have been getting fed up with the status quo. Like I've got to wait a couple of weeks to see a doctor and then they may or may not prescribe this medication and then maybe I can afford it, but maybe I can't. Depends what the health insurer gets. Until depends on the health insurer decides maybe the pharmacy has it in stock. But increasingly receiving medications are not in stock stock. So it's like, you know, you could see why people are attracted and intrigued by the possibility of, you know, conducting more of this healthcare activity online and companies are meeting them there and being able to give them really what they want with without these friction points that have traditionally existed. And in a very quick amount of time, like, you know, Amazon Pharmacy promises to get the medications that they have to your house in a day, sometimes in hours. Walmart Pharmacy recently rolled out like a similar type of a service. And it's like, you know, I mean, I just dealt with a situation where cvs, like, couldn't have a medication that the doctor prescribed for me. They said maybe a week, maybe two weeks, check back, you call them and no one picks up. And it's just like, you know, people are not happy with this experience. And if you can, you know, use online channels to improve that experience, why the heck not?

[Marcus]

Yeah, Yeah. A lot of times behavior is influenced by innovations. A new platform comes along, there's a new way of doing things. There's been some kind of development here. It seems a lot of this is born out of frustration and people are kind of turning their back on the medical industry because they're kind of annoyed with it and they don't want to have to deal with it aside from when they absolutely have to. So it's an interesting driver of trends here. I don't think we need round three, gents, to be honest, because I'm going to crown both of you star Bakers for today. You started off making your own dishes and ended up baking the same little treat, which I think makes a lot of sense because there's a ton of overlap here. And you'll see. Yeah. Even in more detail. If you want to go and check out the other these two and other digital health predictions, Pro subscribers can head to eMarketer.com and search for health trends to watch in 2025. Link is in the show notes. But thank you, gents, so much for being here and talking me through the DC movement and costs of rising even higher than they already are. It's fascinating. Stu, you first. To Rajiv.

[Rajiv Leventhal]

Yeah, thanks, Marcus. I'm happy to come on some point later this year and see, you know, what these latest developments in this, in this area is. It's, it's, it's pretty exciting.

[Marcus]

Yes, please. Looking forward to it. Thank you. Of course, to Dane as well.

[Dane Finley]

Yeah, thank you so much, Marcus. Thank you. Rajeev, thank you for having us today. This was a blast and would love the opportunity to join again sometime soon.

[Marcus]

Yeah, looking forward to having you both back on to monitor these trends and others in digital health. Thank you. Of course, to the whole editing crew, Victoria, John Lance and Danny Stewart, who runs the team and Sophie, who does our social media. Thanks to everyone for listening in. Tune in Wednesday to hear our first Retailer Rankings episode of the Year with Sara Lebo and company on our Reimagining retail show and Emarketer podcast.