Behind the Numbers: How Players Are Trying to Stand Out in the Commerce Media Universe

Summary

Episode Summary: Behind the Numbers: How Players Are Trying to Stand Out in the Commerce Media Universe

Release Date: April 11, 2025

In this insightful episode of EMARKETER's "Behind the Numbers" podcast, host Marcus engages in a comprehensive discussion with principal analyst Sarah Marzano and senior analyst Ariel Faga. The conversation centers on the dynamic landscape of commerce media, exploring how various players are innovating to differentiate themselves in a rapidly expanding and competitive market.

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1. Overview of Commerce Media Ad Spending

Key Insight: Retail media ad spending in the U.S. is projected to reach $60 billion in 2025, with Amazon leading the charge.

• Amazon's Dominance: Commanding a staggering 76% share of retail media ad spending, Amazon remains the unparalleled leader in the space.

  Sarah Marzano (05:55): "There are like 80 some odd retail media networks operating in the United States, and that's all sharing about 16% of retail media ad spending."

• Walmart and the Competitive Landscape: Walmart secures a significant 8% share, leaving the remaining 16% for a myriad of other players. Despite the fragmentation, the overall pie is growing, allowing for increased ad spend (06:23).

  Marcus (06:23): "And the dollars are still going up because the pie is getting bigger overall."

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2. Innovations Addressing Measurement Challenges

Key Insight: Measurement and standardization remain major pain points for advertisers in retail media.

• Albertsons' API Launch: Albertsons introduced an API enabling advertising partners to integrate campaign results directly into their measurement models, addressing the lack of standardized metrics (06:25).

  Sarah Marzano (06:25): "This move from Albertsons is specifically geared at a real concern that advertisers have and addressing that in a way that meets them where they are."

• Partnerships for Enhanced Measurement: Albertsons partnered with TransUnion to make media mix modeling more accessible, facilitating better measurement across campaigns and networks (08:32).

  Ariel Faga (08:32): "Albertsons is really looking at what can we do on a smaller scale to help make measurement easier."

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3. Expanding Beyond On-Site Advertising

Key Insight: Retailers are exploring off-site advertising to scale beyond their digital footprints.

• DoorDash's Double Dash: DoorDash launched new post-purchase ad inventory called Double Dash, allowing customers to add items to their orders during the high-engagement post-purchase phase (12:48).

  Sarah Marzano (12:48): "They're able to keep customers in their own ecosystem during moments of high engagement."

• Best Buy Ads' Social Plus: Best Buy introduced Social Plus, which leverages its first-party data for social media campaigns on platforms like Facebook and Instagram, with plans for expansion (15:53).

  Ariel Faga (15:53): "Being able to connect the data to the inventory is going to be really seamless."

• Dollar General's Community Sampling: Partnering with Recess, Dollar General is distributing samples at local community events, enhancing in-person engagement and complementing online campaigns (15:53).

  Ariel Faga (15:53): "It's just such a wonderful opportunity to encourage trial outside of the store."

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4. The Competitive Edge of Smaller Retail Media Networks

Key Insight: Smaller retail media networks are innovating to offer unique solutions that address advertisers' specific challenges, differentiating themselves from industry giants like Amazon and Walmart.

• Fragmentation as Opportunity: With over 80 retail media networks sharing a modest 16% of ad spend, smaller players have the flexibility to experiment and cater to niche advertiser needs (05:55).

  Sarah Marzano (09:55): "That's going to be much more beneficial for the fragmented long tail of retail media networks."

• Advertiser Investment Trends: A recent survey indicates that while advertisers currently invest in three to five retail media networks, 65% plan to expand their investments to six to nine networks by the end of 2025, signaling increased fragmentation but also growth opportunities (20:12).

  Sarah Marzano (20:12): "Advertisers are planning to spend across significantly more networks, which gives hope to that fragmented segment of the industry."

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5. Overcoming Challenges: Measurement and Standardization

Key Insight: As retail media matures, the need for standardized measurement and transparency becomes paramount to meet advertisers' sophisticated expectations.

• Balancing Standardization and Customization: Retailers strive to adhere to industry guidelines while maintaining measurement practices tailored to their unique business models (07:16).

  Sarah Marzano (07:16): "There's a push-pull between standardization and transparency to help enable advertisers to make really informed decisions."

• Advertiser Expectations: With retail media being judged against established media giants like Google and Meta, advertisers demand higher standards in measurement accuracy and campaign transparency (22:33).

  Sarah Marzano (23:13): "Advertisers expectations are set by really sophisticated companies, and that's going to come for retail media."

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6. Conclusion: The Future of Retail Media

The episode wraps up with a forward-looking perspective on the retail media landscape. Both Sarah and Ariel express optimism about the industry's ability to address existing challenges through innovation and strategic partnerships. The move towards off-site advertising, enhanced measurement tools, and increased advertiser investment in multiple networks are poised to drive the next phase of growth in commerce media.

Ariel Faga (24:33): "There’s definitely opportunity there."

Sarah Marzano (26:01): "Ad buyers are actually sort of all in on retail media but are just begging us to make it easier for them to buy it and scale those buys across more networks."

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Notable Quotes:

• Sarah Marzano (05:55): "There are like 80 some odd retail media networks operating in the United States, and that's all sharing about 16% of retail media ad spending."

• Sarah Marzano (06:25): "This move from Albertsons is specifically geared at a real concern that advertisers have and addressing that in a way that meets them where they are."

• Sarah Marzano (23:13): "Advertisers expectations are set by really sophisticated companies, and that's going to come for retail media."

• Ariel Faga (24:33): "There’s definitely opportunity there."

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This episode of "Behind the Numbers" provides a thorough analysis of the current state and future directions of commerce media. By highlighting the strategies of both industry leaders and emerging players, Sarah Marzano and Ariel Faga offer valuable insights into how the retail media landscape is evolving to meet the demands of advertisers and stay competitive in an ever-changing digital ecosystem.

Transcript

[Marcus]

Foreign. Hey, gang. It's Friday, April 11th. Sarah, Arielle and listeners, welcome to behind the Numbers Eddie marketer video podcast. I'm Marcus. Today we'll be discussing the latest moves in commerce media. Join me for that conversation we have with us two people. Let's meet. And we start with our principal analyst who covers commerce media for us, based in New York, it's Sarah Marzano.

[Sarah Marzano]

Hi, Marcus, thanks for having me.

[Marcus]

Who hasn't been on the show in years, apparently.

[Sarah Marzano]

Thank you for this call.

[Marcus]

The drama. Welcome back, Sarah. It's good to see you again after it's been like a week. Also joining us, one of our senior analysts who hasn't been on this show before but is a staple on the reimagining retail show. She's also in the same city, same studio currently as Ariel Faga.

[Ariel Faga]

Yeah, it's me. I'm here. Happy to be here.

[Sarah Marzano]

Hello.

[Marcus]

Hello. Today's fact, Cleopatra lived closer in time to the first moon landing than to the construction of the great pyramid of Giza.

[Ariel Faga]

I hate these types of facts, Marcus, because they mess with my head. I'm like, what? How am I gonna position that in my head?

[Marcus]

In my timeline, it was either this or it takes 12 honeybees a lifetime's worth of work to make one tablespoon of honey.

[Ariel Faga]

Wow.

[Marcus]

And that felt sad. But now you've made me say it.

[Ariel Faga]

Sorry, Ariel, can I share my own fun fact?

[Marcus]

Oh, yeah. I was going to tell you more about clear patches.

[Ariel Faga]

No, go, you go ahead.

[Marcus]

I said weigh in in this section, not hijack the section. Go on.

[Sarah Marzano]

I have nothing.

[Marcus]

No, go on.

[Sarah Marzano]

What you got for us?

[Ariel Faga]

My fun fact is today is my mother's birthday and I wanted to say happy birthday. Happy birthday to my mother. And. Yeah, thanks. Happy birthday, Mom.

[Marcus]

That's so good. So much better. But I've already did the research. I'm sorry to now tell you more about Cleopatra. Cleopatra, but Happy birthday to Mrs. Ariel Senior. I don't know if that's her name.

[Ariel Faga]

Mrs. Ariel Senior. Yeah, Correct.

[Marcus]

So, yeah, the pyramid was completed. 2000-2500, 2500. I don't know how you say it. BCE while Cleopatra ruled from 51 to 30 BCE. And she also wasn't Egyptian.

[Sarah Marzano]

Shut up.

[Marcus]

Yeah. Famously associated with Ancient Egypt, Cleopatra was of Macedonian Greek descent. She was actually the last ruler of the Macedonian Ptolemaic dynasty, the line of rule established in 323 BC following the death of Alexander the Great.

[Ariel Faga]

Wow. Feels like a Mandela effect, you know? Cleopatra.

[Marcus]

Huh?

[Ariel Faga]

Mandela effect. Do you know the Mandela effect.

[Marcus]

Nope.

[Ariel Faga]

Okay, well, it's this thing. So a lot of people like believe that Nelson Mandela died when he was in jail, but that is not correct. He left, lived after that. And so it's called the Mandela effect when people misremember a part of history or just anything like that. I think a good example is Berenstein Bears. It's spelled with an A I N instead of an E. I N. Berenstain Bears. I think it's still pronounced the same. But anyway, Mandela effect isn't that cannot.

[Marcus]

Be applied to everything. Yes. Okay. I feel like that's most people's lives.

[Ariel Faga]

It's just misremembering. Yeah, but. But it is a fun, you know, I mean, me coin term. I mean, we're all marketers here. We love to coin a term.

[Marcus]

We do. It's too much. Marketers, calm down. Last thing I'll say. We've been going real long.

[Ariel Faga]

I am so sorry.

[Marcus]

That's okay. It's half you. Mainly Sarah. No, it's mainly me. I'd spent a lot of time on this, which I shouldn't, if it's not my real job. She was 18, became the Queen and ruler of Egypt. Most folks at that age are like, I'm off to college to learn how to do laundry. Pray for me.

[Ariel Faga]

A lot of pressure.

[Marcus]

Cleopatra. It was more like, you're now in charge of Egypt. Good luck with that.

[Ariel Faga]

Wow. Anyway, perspective.

[Marcus]

Today's real topic an hour later, commerce media. All right, we're talking retail media. Retail media ad spending will reach $60 billion this year in the U.S. according to our estimates, Amazon's most of that might shock nobody, 76% to be specific. Of that money is Amazon. So they're kind of in charge of steering the ship, so to speak, on retail media. But Walmart has a significant slice, 8% all by himself, which leaves 16% for all other players, of which there are a lot. And we thought we'd start today's episode by talking about a few of the most interesting ones. Sarah, we'll start with you, which you're gonna give us a couple, but let's start with one. Which of these other guys, so to speak, are making some of the most interesting moves so far this year?

[Sarah Marzano]

Yeah, first of all, I love this topic. There are like 80 some odd retail media networks operating in the United States and that's according to research firm Mimby. And they're all sharing about 16% share of retail media ad spending. So it's fascinating to watch how these players are looking to diversify their offerings in order to scale and succeed in a really competitive landscape.

[Marcus]

And it is that share that's growing.

[Sarah Marzano]

That even slightly high is growing. Right. And the share is growing just ever so slightly as well. So they're sort of chipping away. So even though throughout the time frame that we forecast out the individual retailers, even though we have Amazon set to continue commanding more than three quarters of the share, there are like, you know, tenths of percentage points shifting there, which is a lot when you think about, you know, we're dealing with like, north of $60 billion. Yes, right.

[Marcus]

And the dollars are still going up because the pie is getting bigger overall.

[Sarah Marzano]

Got it. So, and I think this year has been really exciting. We had a flurry of retail media announcements, starting with the CES conference this year, and one that caught my eye was Albertsons launching an API that enables their advertising partners to incorporate campaign results directly into their own measurement models. So measurement is this really big pain point among advertisers when it comes to scaling their retail media spend, because right now, there are not widely adopted standards for measurement metrics. And advertisers find it quite hard to compare the efficacy of their spend across multiple retail media networks, which is one of the things that slows down advertiser adoption. So I loved this move from Albertsons because it's sort of specifically geared at a real concern that advertisers have and sort of addressing that in a way that sort of meets them where they.

[Marcus]

Already are on the measurement side of things. I was going through your. So you've got your Commerce media Trends Report, 2025. Anything. What are we expecting to happen in the world of measurement this year? Because I didn't see anything. I think you broke out measurement as one of the big milestones for this year. Correct?

[Ariel Faga]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marzano]

I mean, because measurement is something that we've been talking about for sort of quite some time within retail, and there's been some important moves from sort of industry organizations towards setting the guidelines for what would make up industry retail media measurement standards. So the IAB finalized their guidelines, I believe it was last year. But it takes time for retailers to sort of digest those guidelines and sort of think through how they're going to adhere to them. I actually wrote an entire report on the state of measurement in retail media that published, I think, in January. And there's a lot of nuances. Right. There are some defendable reasons why retailers might measure certain metrics in a specific or customized way that reflects their own business model. And I think for Retailers, they rightly don't want that to get lost in the shuffle if they are to adhere just really rigidly to standards. So there's this sort of push pull between standardization and transparency in order to help enable advertisers to make really informed decisions.

[Ariel Faga]

I think we're seeing retail media networks like, take some different steps into their own hands, like with this API. I think Albertsons is really not only looking at kind of the bigger trade industries like the iab, but also what can we do on a smaller scale to help make measurement easier. They also, I believe, partnered with TransUnion to make media mix modeling a little bit more accessible, which I think is another thing. So we're seeing kind of these partnerships start to appear with ad tech companies to help kind of maybe not necessarily make it more standardized across network to network, but help at least translate, you know, results from one campaign into kind of a brand's own models.

[Marcus]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Marzano]

And I think it's really important to mention that like, the thought of addressing these measurement challenges that advertisers are having is something that is going to be much more beneficial for that fragmented long tail of retail media networks than it is for the big guys who command so much share of ad spending already and maybe feel a little bit less pressure to adhere because the advertisers they work with are already so dependent on the results of those, those ad spending pieces. So I love all the work that Albertsons and some other companies are doing to really push this conversation forward because that's really what's going to solve for a lot of this fragmentation.

[Ariel Faga]

Totally agree.

[Marcus]

Well, we'll throw a link in the show notes to your measurement, your retail media measurement report, and also the trends one as well. So eMarketer Pro plus folks can click those links and go straight to the reports for more detail on those. They're brilliant. Ariel, wait.

[Sarah Marzano]

I have some more than the same at Albertsons. I wasn't done.

[Marcus]

Oh, you did? I thought you were going straight on to your next one.

[Sarah Marzano]

No, I like, I'm going to talk about measurements. I'm not done.

[Marcus]

Please.

[Sarah Marzano]

So the one other thing I was going to mention is that Albertsons has a new VP of Media and measurement, Liz Roche. And I read a fascinating interview with her that the Drum published in which she was talking about the possibility of Albertsons actually acquiring media and publisher properties and sort of incorporating some of those spaces that right now exist on the open web in the form of off site advertising into their owned and operated properties, which is, I think, such a smart Sort of thing to be thinking about because a company like Albertsons is only going to get so far by monetizing their owned and operated channels. Grocery is still penetrated way deeper in terms of physical brick and mortar buying. And by moving off site in this way, Albertsons is able to better scale the value of their first party data. If they're actually acquiring these properties and incorporating them into their owned and operated portfolio, they're also able to avoid a lot of the challenges that come with moving off site. Right. Things like brand safety and measurement and attribution getting harder are now sort of solved for as well as the margins they're able to earn. So it's not something they've done yet, but I love the fact that they're, they're sort of eyeing that as a next move.

[Ariel Faga]

Yeah, that's really exciting.

[Marcus]

Did they mention who they did not like? Who they think? Okay, interesting though. Ariel, who do you have for us?

[Ariel Faga]

Yeah, so kind of in the same, very similar vein in terms of what we were just talking about, the move on to off site. Best Buy Ads has launched something called Social plus, which is basically helping brands to leverage Best Buy's first party data for social media campaigns. Right now the tool is only available for meta on Facebook and Instagram, but the plan is to expand to other platform or other social media networks in the future. And I think that this is just a really smart move because, you know, as we say, there is more movement into off site and I think being able to connect the data to the inventory is going to be. It just really helps keep things a lot more seamless. And you know, being able to kind of keep everything in one place helps with measurement and I just think it's a, it's a really smart move and I'm curious to see kind of what other platforms it expands to in the future.

[Marcus]

Yeah, that's a good one. So we've got Albertsons, Best Buy. Sarah, what else do you have?

[Sarah Marzano]

Yeah, so I had Doordash on my list as well. I feel like I'd talk maybe ad nauseam about the unique position that commerce marketplace intermediaries like sort of hold within the commerce media landscape. They are typically sort of cross industry, so they have visibility into multiple verticals. They have cross merchant purchase data, but they also have really granular data sort of down to a super SKU level, which helps them bring value to their advertisers and really understand customer behavior. So I'm always keeping a close eye on them and they had some announcements recently that caught my eye. The first is a rollout of a new. A few new types of post purchase ad inventory that are geared at the types of purchases they know customers make even after they complete a purchase on DoorDash. And what I like about it is that they're sort of integrating it into their service model. So it's something called Double Dash. And if you buy something off of one of these promoted slots, you're able, like within a certain amount of time, I presume you're able to add them to your existing order for free. And I think this is such a. I've been fascinated by sort of the post purchase part of the purchase funnel for a long time and I think it's a great opportunity for retailers of all types to get more utility out of their customer engagement. One of the things that we've seen a lot of retail media networks activate on in this space is by enabling non endemic advertisers to buy ads in these slots. But I love that DoorDash is thinking through ways to keep customers in their own ecosystem during those moments where they know they have high engagement. Because presumably if you place an order on DoorDash, you're going to linger a little bit on that post purchase confirmation page to see when your order is going to be delivered and sort of how that's going. So I loved that. And then the other piece that they announced, sort of within this flurry of announcements is a partnership with a company called Topsort that is going to open up the ability for Doordash's advertisers to buy inventory on DoorDash as well as other retailers all within the same media buy. There weren't announcements about specifically which retailers were going to be incorporated, but I think it's safe to assume that these are retailers maybe with smaller presences or don't have existing media networks of their own. The advantage to advertisers, of course, is being able to scale their ad buys in a really simple way. And then the advantage to those retailers. Right. Is that they have access to that infrastructure and scale of demand in terms of advertisers that DoorDash is able to connect them to.

[Ariel Faga]

It's like a little bundle.

[Sarah Marzano]

Yes.

[Ariel Faga]

So nice.

[Sarah Marzano]

Yes. And I think that's, that's an exciting way to sort of again, address some of this fragmentation. Right. And give everyone more options without making it a ton harder.

[Ariel Faga]

Yeah, yeah. I'm also really interested in the post purchase process because I think it's something a lot of retailers forget. Not forget about, but it's neglecting something. Yeah. It's a neglect space and I think, you know, being able to like immediately retarget customers with really relevant offers or data or, or ads, it's just such a win. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus]

Very nice. Ariel, one more from you.

[Ariel Faga]

So I am really, really interested in what Dollar General Media Network is doing. So they have partnered with an experiment, experiential retail media platform, Recess. And so what they're doing is sampling outside the store within local communities. So Recess works with local community members and they also work with retail media networks like Dollar General and they are distributing samples at schools, at community events, anything that's kind of happening at that local level. And I think it's just such a wonderful opportunity to encour trial outside of the store. When, you know, sampling in the store is great, it's, you're right there at the point of purchase. But I think sometimes when you are in a different place, you, you might want to try something new. You might be, oh, your friend's trying it, I want to try it. So I just think that there's an element of in person community that's really exciting and then, you know, being able to also kind of use that to complement other, you know, retail, like online in store campaigns, it's just like a really beautiful compliment.

[Sarah Marzano]

That's a website version of in store retail media. I love it.

[Ariel Faga]

Exactly it. So I'm just, I'm super excited to see where this goes.

[Marcus]

Nice. Aria wins that round. Congratulations to Ariel.

[Sarah Marzano]

Just to summarize.

[Ariel Faga]

That's not fair.

[Marcus]

Was it not a conquered?

[Ariel Faga]

No.

[Marcus]

Did you not get the email?

[Ariel Faga]

We both win.

[Marcus]

Sure. Marcus loses.

[Ariel Faga]

We win.

[Marcus]

The audience knows. Whoa, that's probably true. What do these moves and kind of retail initiatives, what are they telling us about the state of retail media? Is there kind of a common thread? Is there something that, I mean, we mentioned four, there are a lot of others happening. What does this all mean?

[Sarah Marzano]

I think there's a common thread that sort of knits all four retail media networks that we just talked about together, which is this recognition that on site advertising and on site inventory, which are really have been the backbone of retail media ad spending, are inherently finite. Right. You're sort of limited to the scale of your digital footprint as a, as a retailer. And so I think more and more retail and commerce media networks are sort of recognizing we need to sort of think outside of the box of our on site, digitally owned and operated inventory for how we're going to further scale our programs. And I think there's so much opportunity because the reason Amazon has been so dominant in the space is because retail media, again, has really revolved around those on site ads and Amazon has an E commerce dominance that no retailers can even come close to matching. But when we think about retailers taking their really valuable data and activating that away from their websites in a way that still allows customers or sorry, advertisers to reach that retailer's customers and then understand the outcome, that's a really exciting proposition. And it's very cool to see all different types of commerce media networks and retailers sort of realizing this and sort of feeling out like, what's the unique way I can sort of pursue this.

[Ariel Faga]

Yeah, I think it also shows, you know, to put it in kind of dramatic terms, these smaller, you know, you know, players are not going down with a fight. You know, they're willing to kind of try new things, try different ways to kind of make their offerings unique or more curated. So I think, you know, when we obviously talk about retail media, Amazon and Walmart, they're, they're going to dominate because of a lot of the reasons we've already said. But I think that, you know, what these smaller networks can bring to the table, Are these like kind of unique, more experimental or, you know, kind of different ways to help solve pain points?

[Marcus]

Yeah, yeah. There was a quote, Sarah, in your research you said the Amazon retail media playbook is only repeatable to a point retailers have modeled on Amazon, but few can hope to achieve a similar scale by following the same steps. Which is, I think, sums up really nicely. There was a recent presentation that you had put together and in it you wrote, advertisers invest in three to five media networks on average. Is this number going up or down or staying the same and why?

[Sarah Marzano]

Yeah, so this was a fascinating new survey that Digiday conducted in partnership with Vantage of retail media ad buyers across agencies as well as brands. And when they asked those survey takers about how many retail media networks they invested in in 2024, they found that the sort of overwhelming answer was between three and five networks. But when they asked the same group sort of what their future plans were, they uncovered a couple of things that gave me a lot of reason to feel very optimistic, which is that not only were advertisers saying they were planning to spend more overall, but they were saying they were planning to spend across significantly more Networks. So 65% of the survey respondents said that by the end of 2025 they were planning to spend between six to nine networks, which is significant. Jump over the three to five and I think gives a lot of hope to that fragmented segment of the industry that we've sort of been talking about and alluding to. But I don't think that's going to come easily. Right. I think that retailers are going to have to continue innovating and addressing Advertisers challenges because 6 to 9, let's face it, is still a quite small chunk of that 80 plus number that we quoted at the beginning.

[Ariel Faga]

Yeah. And the other thing, which I don't mean to be the rain in the parade, but the other thing that I think is important to think about is they're not just competing. Retail media networks aren't just competing with retail media networks anymore. They're competing with commerce media. Right. They're competing. I mean everyone has, you know, launched something. You know, we've got everyone from ReMax to Expedia to Chase launching media networks and of course they all do very different things. You know, we've, we've all, you know, discussed kind of the strengths and weaknesses of each. But I think as advertisers think about, you know, exploring kind of a more holistic media portfolio, we might see the kind of share of retail media networks maybe lessen possibly and we might see a little more experimentation with, you know, financial media, travel media. But to, to Sarah's point, I mean, I think that, you know, it's a really good sign that, you know, the advertisers really want to keep experimenting to keep seeing what networks can offer them. So I think all in all we're going to see an increase. But I do wonder about kind of the mix.

[Sarah Marzano]

No, I think you're absolutely right. And I would take it one step further because we've talked a few times in this episode about the growth of off site. And I think as retail medium networks move off site, they're going to find their competitive set is now not just their retail peers, but it's going to be the likes of media giants. Right. You know, entities like Google, entities like Meta and retail media is really growing up as a format and the consequence of that is that advertisers are going to start judging it as a more mature marketing activation. Right. Advertisers expectations are set by really sophisticated companies and that's going to come for retail media. Right. Where there's not the excuse anymore that this is an emerging channel. We're figuring things out. So I think that's going to be fascinating to watch as well.

[Ariel Faga]

Absolutely.

[Marcus]

Yeah. Just because you move from 3 to 5, from 3 to 5 networks to 6 to 9 doesn't mean that they're just going to fall into a lap. You're still going to have to compete for those. And our Karen Jacobs had a really good quote. I thought it sums us up nicely saying quote, brands are becoming more selective about where they invest as the demands for better measurement, improved audience segmentation and clearer visibility on ad performance rise Attendees at this week's inaugural Commerce Media Brand Summit in Atlanta noted close quote. Let's end with this folks. Ari, I'll start with you. Some of the main challenges, top concerns for advertisers when it comes to retail media at the moment are what I.

[Ariel Faga]

Mean, we've mentioned it. It's no surprise. I would say measurement and standardization is pretty much one of the issues. I think, you know, advertisers are squeezed and they really just need to prove that the dollars they're putting in are worth the dollars they're getting out. So I think, you know, that's really going to impact how retail media networks kind of build out their offerings. Like I said, we're seeing kind of partnerships emerge for better measurement solutions. So I do think that that's a big challenge, but also a big opportunity. I like to kind of be, you know, glass half full in that way. There's, there's definitely opportunity there.

[Marcus]

Sarah.

[Sarah Marzano]

Yeah, So I think, like, to Ariel's point, we've talked a lot about the top challenges and a lot of them have to do with just how difficult it is to scale retail media buys across more networks. In that same Digiday and Vantage survey, they asked the, the ad buyers who were taking the survey about their biggest challenges when it came to buying and scaling their retail media strategy. And I think what was fascinating as I reviewed those survey results is that I wasn't remotely surprised by the top challenges. Right. They're things that I think as an industry we're recognizing and maybe finally coming around to addressing in a really meaningful way. But I think what really stood out to me was where ad buyers were saying they weren't struggling really clearly. So I have a few of those sort of written down to review because I thought they were fascinating. Fewer than two in 10 brand marketers said that they struggled with a lack of leadership or internal buy in behind retail media efforts. And fewer than one in 10 said that retail media had an unclear value proposition. And when advertisers were asked about whether they felt overwhelmed by the abundance of choice in the market, just 3% of them said that that was like a really meaningful challenge to their strategy. Right. And so I think for me, it paints this really clear picture of ad buyers that feel actually sort of all in on retail media but are just begging us to make it easier for them to buy it and scale those buys across more networks and report on it and understand it. So there's this sort of really clear call to action that only the retail and commerce media networks can answer.

[Marcus]

Yeah, yeah, very nice. But that is all we have time for for today's episode. Unfortunately. That's where we'll leave it. Thank you so much to my guests. Thank you. First to Aria.

[Ariel Faga]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Marcus]

Yes, indeed. Thank you, Sarah.

[Sarah Marzano]

Thanks for having me. I missed you guys.

[Marcus]

We'll give it a while. We'll see Sarah in 2026. Thanks to the whole editing crew, Victoria, John, Lance and Danny. Stuart runs the team and Sophie who does our what she do. Social media is what she does. Thanks to everyone for listening in to behind the Numbers show and Email podcast. We'll be back on Monday discussing the explosion of sports for brand engagement. Happiest over weekend.