Behind the Numbers Special Edition: Creator Content: What’s New and What’s Next

Summary

Behind the Numbers Special Edition: Creator Content – What’s New and What’s Next

Release Date: February 15, 2025

In this special edition of Behind the Numbers, eMarketer delves into the evolving landscape of creator content with industry experts from prominent brands. Hosted by Jasmine Emberg, Vice President and Principal Analyst at eMarketer, the panel features Nicole Weltman, Head of Social at Taco Bell; Brian Reesberg, CEO and Co-Founder of Little Chonk; and Sarah Crockett, Senior Vice President and CMO of DSW. Recorded during the eMarketer Summit Creator Economy Trends 2025 on February 7th, this episode explores the latest trends, challenges, and strategies in the creator economy.

1. The Migration of Creators to Omnichannel Campaigns

Brian Reesberg opens the discussion by highlighting a significant trend: creators are increasingly stepping beyond social media platforms into traditional media avenues. He shares insights from Little Chonk's out-of-home campaign with Google Wallet, where their presence extended to billboards and subway stations in New York City.

"Creators are stepping off of TikTok. Like, you know, there's a lot of Super Bowl commercials this year with creators like Alex Earl and Jake Shane."
— Brian Reesberg [04:36]

This shift not only broadens the creators' reach but also adds authenticity and organic engagement to traditional advertising channels.

Nicole Weltman echoes this sentiment, discussing Taco Bell's foray into TV ads with creators like Ash Shu. She emphasizes the importance of integrating creator content seamlessly across various media platforms to maximize impact.

"We got to kind of mobilize her community. Her channels have a really beautiful, craveable spot that can live on connected TV, social, and TV."
— Nicole Weltman [06:24]

2. Embracing Long-Term Partnerships

The panelists agree that long-term collaborations between brands and creators foster deeper trust and more authentic content. Brian Reesberg discusses his extended partnership with Dell, which allowed Little Chonk to integrate Dell's products naturally into their content narrative.

"When you have this intimate relationship with your audience, you're selling a lifestyle, and if that product can fit into your lifestyle, then I want people to know about it."
— Brian Reesberg [21:38]

Similarly, Sarah Crockett outlines DSW's approach to creator partnerships, emphasizing authenticity and alignment with brand values over transactional relationships.

"We're looking for people who truly have a connection to our brand, are interested in what we have to say and what we have to offer."
— Sarah Crockett [27:19]

3. Navigating Content Trends: Trending vs. Evergreen

The discussion shifts to content strategies, particularly the balance between leveraging trending topics and maintaining evergreen content. Nicole Weltman asserts that while trending content accelerates engagement, brands must infuse their unique personality to avoid appearing inauthentic.

"You don't want to embrace a trend just for the sake of it without infusing your own human truth, your personality in it."
— Nicole Weltman [16:31]

Sarah Crockett adds that brands should prioritize authenticity over chasing every trend, ensuring that their content resonates genuinely with their audience.

"If a trend doesn't feel naturally right or important or relevant to your audience, don't follow it just because it's a trend."
— Sarah Crockett [20:04]

4. Diversifying Platforms and Content Types

Brian Reesberg emphasizes the importance of diversifying across multiple platforms to mitigate risks associated with platform volatility. Little Chonk's strategy includes expanding into newsletters and hosting events like Chonk Fest to engage audiences beyond TikTok.

"You can't rely on any platform. So it behooves you to get off of TikTok and start moving on to different platforms."
— Brian Reesberg [11:10]

Sarah Crockett notes that while DSW has paused exploring TikTok Shop due to platform uncertainties, they continue to invest in creator content across other channels to derive valuable insights applicable to platforms like Instagram and YouTube.

"The learnings that we're experiencing with this push into TikTok specifically can translate to learnings on other platforms."
— Sarah Crockett [15:20]

5. Balancing Own Brand with Third-Party Partnerships

Balancing personal brand initiatives with third-party brand partnerships is crucial for creators. Brian Reesberg discusses how Little Chonk integrates brand collaborations without overwhelming their audience, maintaining authenticity and trust.

"We try to be very smart and respectful of our audience because... I want to see your adventures. That's why I follow you."
— Brian Reesberg [24:07]

Nicole Weltman highlights Taco Bell's approach to managing multiple creator partnerships at varying levels of engagement, ensuring that each collaboration aligns with the brand's broader marketing strategy.

"We might enlist them for one product in a short flight, but they know that they'll be hearing from Taco Bell again."
— Nicole Weltman [26:39]

6. The Future of Creator Content

Looking ahead, the panelists anticipate continued growth and evolution in the creator economy. They emphasize the need for brands to cultivate genuine relationships with creators, invest in diverse content strategies, and remain adaptable to changing media landscapes.

"Trending content was bubbling, and TikTok just put it on an accelerator. But it won't revert back to this more stale evergreen. It will revert back somewhere in between."
— Nicole Weltman [18:29]

Conclusion

This episode of Behind the Numbers offers valuable insights into the dynamic world of creator content. From the migration to omnichannel campaigns and the significance of long-term partnerships to balancing trending and evergreen content strategies, the panelists provide a comprehensive overview of the current and future trends shaping the creator economy. Brands and creators alike can leverage these discussions to navigate the complexities of digital media, ensuring authentic engagement and sustained growth in an ever-evolving landscape.

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For more insights and detailed analysis, tune in to Behind the Numbers, published Monday through Friday wherever you find podcasts.

Transcript

[Marcus Johnson]

Did you know 70% of CMOs are now responsible for steering their company's AI initiatives? That's a lot of them. Find out what it takes to be a successful CMO in this new AI powered era of marketing. Download their playbook driving growth in the AI era, exclusively from Zeta Global. Link is in the show.

[Sarah Crockett]

Notes.

[Marcus Johnson]

Welcome to a special edition of the E Marketer podcast behind the Numbers made possible by Zeta Global Global. I'm Marcus Johnson and today we have a special episode from the eMarketer Summit Creator Economy Trends 2025 held on February 7th. This episode is a panel discussion about what's new and what's next for creator content. EMarketer Vice President and Principal Analyst Jasmine Emberg hosts Nicole Weltman, Head of Social from Taco Bell. Brian Reesberg, creator, CEO and co Founder of Little Chonk, and Sarah Crockett, Senior Vice President and CMO of dsw. Enjoy.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Hi everyone. For those of you who are just joining us now, welcome. I'm Jasmine Emberg, Vice President and Principal analyst here at eMarketer. And those of you who are coming from the keynote, thank you for sticking around. I am so excited to continue with our programming with our first panel of the day which is focused on the evolution of creator content. Before we begin, I'd love to do a round of introductions of our great panelists. Can each of you tell us who you are, what you do, and a creator whose content you are loving right now? Brian, let's start with you. Since your first step on my screen.

[Brian Reesberg]

Sure. My name is Brian Reesberg. I am the dog dad to Maxine. Who's that right there? I'm also the CEO of Little Chonk, which is a creator led pet brand that we started back in 2021 and a creator that I'm really loving right now. It's this guy in Japan. His name is Kentaro Underscore Japan Walker. And every day he. He's documenting his journey, walking across Japan with his dog. And I mean, the engagement is through the roof because he's doing this thing that every day is just galvanizing an audience. He's such a sweet guy. I don't know, it just kind of came out of left field and I'm just like tuning in every day to see this guy's adventures.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Does Maxine watch it with you?

[Brian Reesberg]

Yeah, she does.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Sarah, how about you?

[Sarah Crockett]

Hi. Sarah Crockett. I'm the Chief Marketing Officer at dsw. Thank you so much for having me here. I'm going to plug Paige desorbo, maybe more of a Celebrity influencer of sorts, but also very much a creator in the podcast land and the social land. And just love the message, love the fun. We all need a little bit more of a spark of joy and she kind of owns it and brings everything to the forefront with her audience.

[Brian Reesberg]

I love that Maxine's a giggler.

[Sarah Crockett]

So there you go.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Nicole.

[Nicole Weltman]

Yeah, I'm a giggler too. And your campaign that you guys just dropped with Paige looks fabulous. I saw it on, on her feed this week, so congrats to that very time working with Paige. The content is beautiful, but I'm Nicole Weltman. Hi. Great to be here. I'm the head of social for Taco Bell across Paid, owned and earned. And a few of my colleagues and I have been sending around content from it's called MD Foodie Boys and they are, they're young and they have a podcast and they're on IG, TikTok and YouTube. They're doing like, it's so professional. They're doing like their clipping strategy. So last night I saw a clip of them talking about what they think the difference is between Belgian waffles and regular waffles. And I think I'm still stumped. It's really endearing food content, I love that.

[Jasmine Emberg]

And if any of you in the audience have any favorite creators you want to share, please feel free to drop them in the chat as we're talking. We all need a little bit of inspiration, but let's dive into the content because one of the trends that we have been tracking at eMarketer for some time now is the migration of creators and their content off of social media. And Brian, I know when we were talking earlier you were telling me about an out of home campaign that you did with Google Wallet. So could you kind of elaborate a little bit more on that and whether or not you've been getting more of these kinds of requests or inbound for non social or omnichannel campaigns from brands.

[Brian Reesberg]

Yeah, so we had a, we did an out of home campaign for Google Wallet for Tap to Pay. So they did billboards around all the major subway stations in New York City. And because our journey is so integral to the subway, that's why I carry Maxine. That's why we invented this dog backpack. That's why most people know her. So we were featured in a lot of photography throughout the subway and then there was a media component and so we made social content for it. But the social content was just about how cool it is to be an online creator and to be a part of an out of home campaign. And I think, you know, that was, I think it was about a year and a half ago, but now we're seeing it more and more where creators are stepping off of TikTok. Like, you know, there's a lot of super bowl commercials this year with Alex Earl and Jake Shane and. And that's part of the fun of seeing like our favorite creators become a part of more traditional media outlets. And then that in and of itself can turn into like great organic media to put on social. Because when you have these audiences that are following these people who come from wherever, I mean, you're not coming from, you're not. We're not celebrities. We're just normal people who kind of grow these audiences and these followings. It becomes really fun for them to be a part of that journey and to kind of see the rise of a lot of these creators stepping into new arenas. So we're seeing it a lot this year. We saw it a lot a few years ago and really keeps you more of it. Kind of the evolution of the online.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Yeah. And I love that you brought up the Super Bowl TV campaigns because I know, Nicole, you recently worked with a creator at Taco Bell to launch a TV ad. Can you tell us what prompted that? And if this is something that you, you think you might be replicating.

[Nicole Weltman]

We are replicating it.

[Brian Reesberg]

Actually.

[Nicole Weltman]

We just had another shoot this week with a different creator, or it might have been last week, but we, we launched this with a creator named Ash Shu, spelled Xu, and she's on TikTok and just a really amazing food stylist creator. And we figured this is a place that's just ripe for disruption and speed to creation. And creating things that look and feel like they belong on the Internet is more and more important, especially when you look at where our media is placed. But it's a tried and true tactic. Right? Like, even when you think back to the traditional spokesperson, you put a celebrity in your spot because then it also helps you get pressed. They can go out and do interviews. This is like flipping the model on its head. But whenever you're making an investment as a brand, the more that you can get out of it, and it's not just living in one place, the better. And so for us, we got to kind of mobilize her community. Her channels have a really beautiful, craveable spot that can live on connected tv, social and tv. And because it's still, you know, a newer way of working, we got some press hits out of it as well, so really, really proud of it. And it's just something that we're going to continue to leverage to diversify our content mix.

[Jasmine Emberg]

How was that a difficult sell internally? Like, how did this come about?

[Nicole Weltman]

I think what makes it difficult is that people, many marketers are just kind of used to doing things a certain way. Like even like the safety blanket that could be video Village or a certain way that you feel like a pre pro or seeing storyboards just makes you feel really confident. But if you grew up in social like I have, I've been working in social for over a dec. I was like a video village.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Don't, don't know her.

[Nicole Weltman]

Never got it right. Like you're just standing over someone's iPhone. You can kind of leverage the confidence in the way you're used to doing something and bring people along. So it made some people uncomfortable, but we knew that we had enough assets for this particular product to use it as a test and the results blew everyone away. So now that's a really important component of this is merchandising the success internally and really bringing people along. And now there's so much excitement around it.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Absolutely. And I know Sarah, DSW uses a ton of creator content in stores. You also recently featured creators in your back to school campaign. So how has that been resonating with in store shoppers particularly?

[Sarah Crockett]

Yeah, it's definitely a space that DSW has been leaning into and similar conversations to what Nicole and Brian represented. The beautiful thing about working with creator content and placing it in our marketing channels and then representing it in our stores as well is that not only does it resonate better with the consumer, but it's also something we can see as a multiplier for our own built content strategies. So featuring people that represent and look like and feel like and can be relatable to our customer base, which is a very large, diverse customer base, is a great benefit. So what's the perspective of a creator when it comes to getting their kids and themselves ready for back to school season? Creators can often tell a story about their wedding planning better than we can on our own. So we tend to like to the model of, of Creator plus DSW built content as a way to represent our point of view. And we've seen a lot of success in that. When it comes to weddings, whether it's back, you know, best friends and celebrating Galentine's and things of that nature, we're certainly leaning into the creator space and we see our customer responding really nicely to that.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think One of the things that has drawn so many marketers to the creator economy is the diversity of creators. Right. I think, you know, you get so many different types of people who are creating content and really speaking to different communities and different audiences. And I think that, that, you know, is going to continue to be a driver of seeing more creator content, really across channels. But even as, you know, we're seeing creator content move into, you know, out of home campaigns, TV or in stores, social media is still the main hub. And we really are in this era now where basically every social platform is a video platform. I just talked about this during the keynote. And TikTok, of course, has been a major catalyst in the boom in video content and short video content particularly. So, Brian. Oh, my gosh, is Maxine awake? Well, you and Maxine have over 4 million followers on TikTok talk. How are you navigating this period of volatility and uncertainty around the platform?

[Brian Reesberg]

I don't know. We. It's kind of. We do pretty well in, like, volatile climates. Because I've been. I've been doing this since 2015 and have been pretty. And I come from an advertising background and, you know, everything about being a creator, there is no stability to it. Right. If so, from the jump, we were all about diversifying, like, what platforms we were on, who we were talking to, making sure we're getting in front of different audiences. You know, like a big thing for us is. Is not just reaching people who are pet evangelists, but also, you know, being a part of cultural moments. Like Maxine was on Sesame street, she got on Ed Sheeran's back. You know, we did, like, stuff with Bert Kreischer. So diversification is the name of the game. And you really can't rely on any platform. Like your. Your business is literally in the hands of another company. So it behooves you to get off of platform. That's why we have a newsletter right now that we launched with another creator that has about 80,000 followers. We launched an events program called Chonk Fest where we bring people off the Internet. And, you know, we did two events, and each one sold out 1500 tickets. So I think in this climate, especially with TikTok, it's like, I hope creators that are more novice to this work kind of get the hint of, like, you can't rely on anybody but yourself. That's just the fact of it. And if you're putting all your eggs in one basket, TikTok can go away. People think it still will go away. And you just have to kind of get your audience ready and start moving on to different platforms. We're, you know, we've got our newsletter on Beehive. They've been great. So that's what I've been recommending to people is just prepare, you know, expect the best, prepare for the worst.

[Jasmine Emberg]

So one of the other things that I love about how you've built your business is that you haven't just diversified platforms, but you've also diversified the types of brands that you work with. Moving out of pet endemic brands. Right. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? I mean, you mentioned, we talked about Google Wallet already, but how do you incorporate sort of brands that are outside of the pet industry into your content?

[Brian Reesberg]

That's kind of like what we focus on most now is working with non pet endemic brands. We had a really long relationship with Dell. It was about an 18 month long relationship, which I know seems very non traditional. It was a leap for them. So good on them. And the thing with pets these days, you put a pet with anything and it's a cheat code. If you know how to market, then you can kind of make it really work. Like, you know, we're content creators, we have a business. You know, I'm traveling all over the world to do these events. And the suite of products that Dell had fit really well into telling that story, into how you can navigate that part of your life. You know, we talk to car brands all the time because we've got a kid, we need to travel. It's like people have, there are more pets than children in this country. So I think it's not, it's not a niche thing like bringing your dog with you. It's not niche. So. And it's also like a fun creative challenge. You know, when you get a brand that's like, like, you know, Taco Bell, what would you do with a dog? And Taco Bell, we know what they did with a Chihuahua. What would you do with a pet crater in Taco Bell? Like, that's fun. It's fun to surprise people. Like, we just put Maxine on the back of. Our friend has an account called Old Jewish Men. And we just put Maxine on this old Jewish man's back and he sat in a Costco eating a hot dog. And you know, people don't know that there's a part of that that's like, it's Spawn Con. You know, it's all meant to be that way. It's like, can you surprise and delight people and kind of, you know, meet them at a different place other than just watching QTPET content.

[Jasmine Emberg]

And you know, I mean, social media is about surprising and delighting people with your content, but it's also become a sales channel. And Sarah, when we were talking earlier, you said that you were pressing pause on exploring TikTok shop but still continuing to lean into the platform in other ways. So could you just elaborate a little bit on how you're doing that and why you are continuing to invest despite the turmoil?

[Sarah Crockett]

Yeah, I think it's a by factor of time really. We were in the process of exploring TikTok shop and would continue if there's some stability on the platform. But that said, we are still very much invested in reaching and connecting with communities on the platform, working with creators on the platform. We just, you can flip a coin. Who knows what direction this is going to go. And we believe the learnings that we're experiencing with this kind of push into TikTok specifically can translate to learnings on other platforms. Just great best practices for what content is resonating with the consumer landscape today and how that can translate to potentially, potentially enhance strategies for the Instagram platform or YouTube or other. So there's certainly a good benefit to continue to get smarter on content and creator strategies.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Nicole, would you agree with that? Because Taco Bell is really, really good at harnessing TikTok trends and working with a lot of creators to do so. So how do you see the future of TikTok content specifically when it comes to trending content versus longer form or more evergreen storytelling, with or without TikTok?

[Nicole Weltman]

I think with or without TikTok, the need for brands to embrace trending content was bubbling and TikTok just put it on an accelerator. The reason why brands need to embrace trending content is because an evergreen strategy can very quickly become like a place for complacency or set it and forget it. Where you just may have created something a month ago and posted and it may not land the same. And so people really are more savvy than ever before and they know that they are human beings running these channels, right? Like you see people be like, oh, the intern posted this or whoever posted that, give them a raise, right? Like people are aware that there are people behind these brands. And so because of just that savviness, the people are embracing brands that are as more real time because that means that, you know, that they're paying of Internet culture and really leaning in and embracing those trends. Whether or not TikTok stays trending content will always be a Part of the mix. I think the pendulum possibly has swung too far to one side, and it will revert back, but it won't revert back to this more stale evergreen. It will revert back somewhere in between where a personality will still shine through. It's kind of table stakes these days to be unhinged. It feels like everyone's like, yeah, we love to see these unhinged brands, right? But it can't just be unhinged for the sake of it. It has to be TR to you. But you can start to see, like, when every brand is just throwing demure or brat around this past summer, the people are like, we get it. And you'll even see these compilations of, like, all the same copy from all these different brand accounts. So you don't want to embrace a trend just for the sake of it without infusing your own human truth, your personality in it. So I think we're going to end up some somewhere in between hypertrending, but not go back to static. Evergreen.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Yeah. I mean, on a personal level, I mean, I feel like, very demure, very mindful was at least a tipping point for me when I opened my email, and every single email that I had from a brand started with very demure, very mindful. And I was just like, enough, like, just way too much of it out there. And I think, you know, to your point about the pendulum kind of starting to swing back, even though it won't go entirely back, that's probably a relief to some brands. No, because jumping on trends brings with it a lot of challenges. And, you know, what are some of the ways that you can sort of mitigate the risks of maybe missing the mark or, you know, jumping on a trend too fast and maybe not having it be exactly right for your brand?

[Nicole Weltman]

I actually think the center, like, kind of reverting back to this middle space is the hardest for brands because it is. You can almost bandwagon a trend like you were just talking about with your emails by just using the copy, getting it out fast. The risk with trending is being too, too late, I think, more than anything, or just kind of falling flat and seeing like a bandwagon. And the risk with evergreen content is not feeling like a member of the Internet, not feeling like you're fluent in Internet culture. The middle ground where you have to understand what your audience cares about, what your brand cares about, and what the Internet cares about, and find the bullseye center of those three things, which is literally like a strategic imperative that we have at Taco Bell that is the hardest part. And it takes a lot of science, a lot of trust, and a lot of fluency in all three of those.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Sarah, I see you nodding. Is this something that you're also thinking about and struggling with?

[Sarah Crockett]

Yeah, I just think Nicole said it so well. And I'll just build on that and say, in my opinion, it comes down to who you are as a brand first and foremost. If, if a trend doesn't feel naturally right or important or relevant to your audience, don't follow it just because it's a trend. I think that's when inauthenticity comes forward and you get called out on that. And consumers are super savvy and smart, they understand that. So I think it's a filter. Using your brand and your positioning and your unique points of differentiation and understanding why customers care about you is the first thing that you need to apply to any decision that you make. What creators you work with, when do you produce content, what are your partnerships? That's all decided by your brand positioning.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Absolutely. And you brought up partnerships, which is a perfect segue into the next topic that I want to talk about. Because as we've seen creator content evolve, the way that brands and creators work together inevitably needs to evolve as well. And so we're seeing more longer term partnerships. I know, Brian, you already brought this up with your partnership with Dell. We're seeing more product collaborations and even some brands and agencies putting creators onto their payroll. So, Brian, I wanted to throw it back to you so you can elaborate a little bit more about or on your partnership with Dell and any other longer term partnerships that you've had. And I'm really curious for the creator point of view on both the benefits and the challenges of really being a spokesperson or having a longer term relationship with a specific company.

[Brian Reesberg]

Sure. As somebody, we've built up a lot of trust in our community. So we take our partnerships very seriously and we try to be like an evangelist for that brand. I want to live, I want to breathe it, I want to tell people. Why we use becomes like a really fun little puzzle, like can we get across? You know, because I think audiences these days, they know creators do brand partnerships, they know things are ads. Like most of the comments on our ads are like, wow, this is like a pretty good ad. I watched the whole thing because I think when you get into this, into the space where you have this intimate relationship with your audience, you're selling a lifestyle and if that product can fit into your lifestyle, then I want people to know about it. So when we were working with Dell and I knew kind of what their mandates were for like 2/4 away, I could work on integrating that product into my life. And it just became kind of really seamless. So we went traveling, I got content on the plane. I actually used products, you know, when we went to SoCal, Corgi Beach Day or did Chogfest. And then when we made the content, it wasn't just like I spent the weekend making it because it becomes again, very transparent when you're just doing sponsored content. So I really try and live and breathe the brand with the partnerships that we do. And I think it just instills so much trust when you're working long term with a brand and they're willing to make that commitment. And the communications from the brand side, that's also really important. Do they get what's important to me as a creator? And if that extends to me, I mean, I've done deals with long term brands where I think we've delivered 4 or 5x the number of deliverables just because we want to hit their KPIs, we want to do good work for them. It's not about a paycheck. When you have this really integrated relationship and a partnership, it just becomes more meaningful. So it's usually what we look for. We don't try and do one off deals and if we do, it just doesn't instill a lot of trust. And there's just, you know, it's kind of rare that you come back and it facilitates something more meaningful. So.

[Jasmine Emberg]

Right. You're more invested in the brand, you're more invested in the product. It makes sense. The other question I have for you is because now with Little Chonk, you obviously have your own product line. How do you balance your own business and brand with brand partnerships from third party brands?

[Brian Reesberg]

Oh boy. That's a question, huh? You know, it's the, the backpack. I say the backpack. The backpack is, it's like really integral to everything we do. It's why, you know, she loves being in it, we love traveling. So it's, we, I think we got really lucky with it because it's so. It's just a part of what we do. So everything, everything that I bring her to do, like she's in the backpack. So when Sesame street called, it's like, oh yeah, people know us for the backpack. I'll wear the backpack. And they're like, fine. We did a commercial with petsmart. Oh, the backpack's the thing. That's why we do it. And you know A lot of brands that we work with, they know they get it. So it's great to be able to include it as a part of our story. And the halo effect of that is fantastic. But, you know, we try and be very careful about, like, not hitting people over the head with it. And again, that comes with a diversity with other influencers that we work with, with kind of email campaigns, smx, you know, we hit, we sell the backpack. Well, now she wants out of the backpack. We sell the backpack. But, like, I'm not making constant content about, like, here's the product, here are the benefits, because it's just something people know us for. So we try and be really smart and respectful of our audience because, you know, if I'm on the other side of, of this relationship, like, I get it, you had a company. I don't want to hear about it all the time. I want to see your adventures. That's why I follow you. So, I don't know, we test and we learn every day and we're in the DMs talking to people and, you know, we usually get a feel. If anybody's getting sick of doing too many ads, doing too much of this, doing too much of that, we kind of.

[Jasmine Emberg]

I think it helps because it's just so authentic and integral to the content that you're making. Right. I. So, you know, I, I totally understand where, where you're coming from with that, but I would love to get Nicole and Sarah your perspectives on this as well, because, Sarah, I know you just announced a partnership with Paige desorbo, but I imagine that you aren't developing a footwear line with every influencer and creator who you work with. So could you talk to me a little bit more about the ways that you incorporate or integrate creators into your campaigns?

[Sarah Crockett]

Yeah, it really varies and honestly, it's. It's very similar to what Brian was saying as far as we pursue genuine, authentic partnerships with each and every person that we enlist as a creator, whether it's a celebrity level partner or somebody who has, you know, 5,000 followers. It's. It's something that we operate internally and our teams inside of DSW are working hand to hand, which each, with each and every partner that we do enlist, we'll have partners who, to your point, maybe we're not curating a line for each and every one, but we have a celebrity stylist partner and Mimi Kurtel, who last fall helped guide our consumers around what the best fall trends were, and she was completely on point and what styles could fulfill that trend within a DSW assortment. We have partners that we're simply working with on content creation and how are they wearing these products, what are their kids selecting for back to school? What are they looking for for their holiday gift and wish list? And those perspectives shared within their communities and then shared within the DSW communities are just as valuable as a celebrity partnership where we curating a line of Paige's selection of her favorite shoes for the season and bringing that to life in store. As I mentioned at the top, this is content that manifests in our stores, in all of our marketing channels and importantly on the creators channels. So that's that is truly just as important as the work that we put into our channels as well because we want to make sure that we're engaging their audience with the DSW brand. But we do look for longer term partnerships. I totally believe in what Brian said and we share that same sentiment. We're not necessarily looking for transactional relationships. We're looking for people who truly have a connection to our brand, are interested in what we have to say and what we have to offer which is accessible value without compromising your style or personal self expression. You can be whoever you want. And shoes do a lot of that lifting and expressing yourself. And so hearing different people's personal interests and expression just adds a nice spark to listen and learn about those unique perspectives.

[Jasmine Emberg]

How about you Nicole? Because when we spoke earlier you said that you had three different speeds with which you worked with creators. What do you mean by that and how do you balance those three?

[Nicole Weltman]

Exactly what Brian and Sarah have been talking about for us. We have a lot of new news. Our food calendar and certain menu items are turning over nearly monthly on a four week basis. But there's long tail narratives that also we want to make sure we're delivering to consumers. So the three different speeds are long term, very long term, annual, something in between where it might be a few pulses throughout the year, but still really developing that relationship, learning about each other. And then especially in the food business, there are some people that are talking a little bit more news. It might feel a little bit more like they just want to cover what's hot and the latest buzz. And so while we'll still develop a long term relationship with every creator that we work with, we might enlist them for one product in a short flight but they know that they'll be hearing from Taco Bell again. So those are the three speeds of very campaign kind of touch points and pulses throughout the year or this always on type of relationship And I'll just say, you know, it's so tempting when you read the trades and you hear everything about AI and be able to activate at scale and move quickly and provide cost efficiencies like that comes at a price. And I think the biggest takeaway we're all seeing the three of us is that the personal relationships really do. They take the time to carry, but they pay you back either as a creator or a brand in space.

[Jasmine Emberg]

And I think that is a perfect note to end on. I have so many more questions for the three of you and I wish I could talk to you for longer, but we do have to cut it here. Sarah, Brian and Nicole, thank you again so much for this great conversation. We really appreciate it.

[Marcus Johnson]

That's all we have time for for this episode. Thank you so much to Jasmine, Nicole, Brian and Sarah for the conversation. Thank you of course, to the whole editing crew. Victoria, John, Lance and Danny Stewart runs the team of Sophie goes Outside Social media. Thanks to everyone for listening in to behind the Numbers, an emarketer video podcast made possible by Zeta Global. Tune in Tuesday. We're off Monday. Happy President's Day February 18th for the next episode of behind the Numbers, where we discuss Google versus the rest of the Gen AI world.