← Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast
Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast
Caitlin Clark and the Women’s Sports Gold Rush | In the Game
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Foreign.
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Welcome everyone to in the Game, an E Marketer sports marketing podcast. This is a conversation about Caitlin Clarkonomics, where it goes now and who the next breakout star might be in women's sports. Hello, folks, I'm Marcus and today I'm alongside two folks both calling New York City home. We have our demographics analyst, Paola Flores Marquez. Welcome to the show.
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C
Hi, Marques, nice to see you.
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B
Hello there. Hello, you too. And principal forecasting writer Ethan Kramer Flood joins us.
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A
Marcus, it's raining in New York, but it is warm and toasty and comfortable in our lovely new E Marketer studio. So we're.
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B
Hello.
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C
Shiny and new.
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B
Very nice, very nice. Thank you to the production team for putting that together. Okay, so former player and Indiana Fever play by play voice Debbie Antonelli coined the phrase Clarkonomics, a term used to outline the massive economic impact and revenue surge generated by basketball superstar in the making. You could argue she is already but whole career ahead of her. Caitlin Clark. So the first question, Ethan, I'll start with you. Caitlin Clark had a huge contribution to the WNBA her rookie year 2024, but remained sidelined with injury much of 2025. How much did that affect the league and what kind of a surge do you think we can expect this year?
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A
I think it affected the league not at all, which is good news in the short term. And the answer to your second part of your question is also positive. In as much as because she's back now, there will be even more of a surge. However, I will say that she cannot remain indefinitely injury prone. Right. This can't continue to happen again and again and again because eventually those fans that turn out in droves and watch TV on droves will start to notice that all those Indiana Fever games that are constantly on national TV don't feature the person that they're there to watch. So let's all keep our fingers crossed that she's able to stay healthy and continue on. Because when she's in the court, she has a spectacular watch. I mean, it was up in her rookie was up and down, but she made the all star team. She'll be on the national team. She's a great, great player. She's going to get better. The league itself is beyond any one person. The trajectory is just up, up, up. Attendance is great. Ratings are great. The new media deal is great. The new collective bargaining agreement is great. Thank God they got that done so that the season actually happen. Everything is trending in the right direction, you know, over time. If she, if she continues to not be available, that will probably have a constraining effect, a detrimental effect as compared to where it could have gone. But so far, I mean, I don't think it mattered all that much at all that she wasn't on the court last year. I think things are still looking really, really good.
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B
Yeah. Injuries matter more in the WNBA because the season's shorter. And so if you do get an injury that you're out for a month in the NBA or two, it's not that big of a deal. You can come back in the wnba, you might miss half the season. Yeah, I was looking in what into what happens when Caitlin Clark is no longer in versus when she isn't. And it seems like when she got injured, there was a drop, but actually the league did okay at the end. So WNBA viewership on ESPN platforms skyrocketed. Skyrocketed 170% the year Caitlin joined the WNBA in 2024. The following year, she played just a handful of games before she got injured. The two weeks following her injury, viewership of nationally televised games fell 55%, according to USA Today. She remained out much of the rest, pretty much the rest of the season, but the viewership at the end of the year was on par with what it was previous year. So it did recover.
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C
Right. It's still higher than the pre2024 levels. Right. Is my understanding.
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B
So it's still a win right around there.
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C
Yeah. It's pretty clear that. I mean, the league did not collapse without her. So, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't say, yeah, she's more of an accelerant than she is like a necessity. And I think she's unlocked a lot of viewership for people who otherwise would not have been interested.
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B
Yeah. Kind of surprising the league didn't collapse, though, especially based on this stat I have here. I mean, there's a lot of players if you contributed to getting the league to where it is. But this stat here, I think, indicates why, you know, it potentially could have kind of caved in on itself. Clark's economic impact on the wnba so, Ryan Brewer, he's an associate professor of finance at Indiana University, Columbus, an expert on valuations. He calculated that her economic impact on The WNBA was 26.5% of all WNBA economic activity in her 2024 rookie season, including revenue from merchandise, ticket sales and TV, et cetera.
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A
You certainly couldn't get into the games when Indiana came to New York, I mean.
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B
Or went anywhere.
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A
Yeah. Or went anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's undeniable. She was a singular character. She's a phenomenon the likes of which the WNBA needed, the likes of which other sports have seen and have led to that accelerant, as Powell said. But as with all other sports, I think, and other leagues that have these incredible superstars, you reach a level of maturation where you're gonna be fine without them. And so, I mean, I think the WNBA is getting to or has already gotten to or will get to the point where, you know, no one is absolutely vital. She's super fun to watch, you know, and so like when she's not on the court, it's not as fun because she has a game, a Steph Curry esque game that is incredibly exciting and she's more famous than everybody else. But I mean, you know, we did, you know, the real problem last year is that the New York Liberty did not defend their championship. I mean, that's, you know, that's probably why people weren't watching. New York wasn't this good. Right?
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C
I mean, clearly if New York's not doing it, then no one else is doing it.
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A
Who wants to watch Las Vegas?
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B
All the.
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We want to watch the Liberty and they're stacked and this year they're going to be back at the top and, and then I think everything will be fine and we'll forget about that team in the Midwest.
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C
I mean, I think it's also delving into like this sudden desire amongst Gen Z. Not sudden, but like growing desire amongst Gen Z to like for third spaces. Right. To do things in person. And I think that all this tension, not just from men, but from women too, who are just kind of like, well, what are we doing? Well, we should go to a game and let's just go hang out and support the girls. And like, I think that it's a combination of the Caitlin Clark effect and this desire for what was once affordable. And it's increasingly less affordable as an activity. But adoption is there, it is part of it.
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A
And we'll talk a little later about. It's not just basketball. So like the women's hockey league, the women's soccer league, they have not yet achieved the media success in terms of the TV deals that the WNBA has. But man, are they getting crowds. You know, people are packed, tens of thousands, millions, ultimately over the course of the season, are going to those games as well. We'll get into other sports a little bit later, but I think that's actually your point. And actually you don't have to go either. I mean, this is also a sit around the couch or at a Bar type of event, which becomes possible because the games are on. At least the basketball games are on everywhere all the time now, if you can find them, they are on, I think.
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C
Yeah. Barriers to viewing have been a major detractor for a while.
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Yeah.
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And we're seeing those numbers go up your team, Ethan, forecasting women's live sports viewers. I mean, this speaks to the impact that she. She had. It grew 64, 65 the year that she entered the league. So went from 2.7 million women's live sports viewers 2.7 to 4.5. We think it's going to slow down, but it is still ticking up. And with some of the others, other leagues coming on, you could easily see another surge in that number. Last thing I want to say quickly about her impact is astonishing as well. She increased the value of the Fever that her team she plays for, but nearly 300%. So digital content and media platform Sportico pegged the value of the Fever, the franchise, at 90 million 9 0, slightly below the estimated league average before. But when she joined the team is closer to 340 million. Basically overnight, so much pressure.
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A
So the other day I saw an ad with Sophie Cunningham in the ad, and I was like, sophie Cunningham has an ad? Like what? Like she basically gets a national TV ad because she's on the same team as Caitlin Clark.
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B
Yeah. So she plays for the. She plays for the Fever. She's. I guess she's the star. She's okay forward, but.
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A
Yeah, but she's been in the league 10 years. You know, I've never seen her in that before. No, she wasn't next to like. That's a superstar. The people who stand next to the superstar get to have national TV ads.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Also because it's not just that because they stand next to her, but I think because it's her. The other people are able to be savvier about who's working for them. Right. They're able to hire better agents and then it builds more momentum because they get those spots. Right. And it just creates more hype and it just becomes this massive machine for sure, which would not have fixed it without her.
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A
Yeah, yeah. But you ride those. You ride those coattails if you can.
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B
Yeah. Rising Tide. So I want to talk a bit more about the Caitlin Clark effect, the concept, what went into that. But I really want to quickly dive into something Ethan, you mentioned, which is the new. The new rights deal that they have. So on March, ESPN article noting that 17 months after the WNBA players opted out of their collective bargaining agreement CBA with the league. And after months of intense negotiations, including a marathon 100 hours of in person sessions in the final week, the WNBA Players association signed a new landmark deal that kicked in before the start of the 2026 season. It's the league's 30th year. Yeah. Ethan, what stands out to you the most about the new WNBA media deal?
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Yeah, the number 216 is what stands out the most. According to the athletic article in front of me here quoting from them, the 216 games will be on the equivalent of national TV this year. That's a really big number. So there's 15 teams in the league. They play 44 games a year. Quick math suggests that that means, well, more than half of every WNBA game is going to be on something. I don't know if we use the term national TV anymore because I don't know what TV is anymore. But between all of their eight different media partners, and that's not mocking them that every sports league is doing this now. But whether it's NBC or Amazon or Peacock or regular TV or various networks, they're on ABC and espn, they're on USA I think now, and they're on ion. Just an absolutely stunningly enormous percentage of the total amount of games will theoretically be findable. If you're up for doing that effort. You can find tons and tons of games. And by contrast, that is a far larger percentage of games than the NBA would have on national tv. The NBA teams are more likely to have regional sports networks. So like NBA games are on in your town if you want to see your team. But on a national level, the WNBA has a higher share now of their games that are going to be available again if you can find them. And this is the, this is actually Powell and I were chatting about this before the podcast started. It's like good luck figuring out where,
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C
where and when in any given night.
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You know, if you actually want to do this, it's the same challenge. Baseball, NBA, they're all like this. But anyway, that's just the availability is unquestionable now. Right? The access is there and that's, I
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B
mean, that's right now. The WNBA will add more games, additional ad opportunities next year. 2026 season stays at 44, but they're expanding to 50 by 2027. 52 from 2029 onwards.
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A
She also mentioned that all 44 Indiana games are on national TV this year, every single game. So I hope she shows up. I hope she's playing most of the, most of the Liberty game. Are too, by the way.
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C
Nice.
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B
That's true. Paolo, how about for you?
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C
I think this is a pretty strong stance in declaring it as like a must have content. Right. Or as opposed to would have been like just nice to have. And so it show. And it shows the major level of belief that this is like the next generation of sports viewing. Which makes sense because there's so much room for growth compared to others. But yeah, I think that, I think a key thing to keep in mind here is that they're not paying for what the WNBA is, but they're paying for what it is becoming. And so it's not guaranteed.
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B
Yes. Yeah, it's nice. They've worked out into contract. It's not like it's set for 10 years and doesn't matter about the viewership. They are reviewing it. Every couple of years the viewership goes up. There are escalators in there which, which kick things up. Two of the things that jumps out to me as well, other things were the players obviously getting paid more. So the average salary will be around 600 grand. That's still low, but it's a. It's up from 120 last year. So staggering growth there. Minimum salary will cross the 300k mark. That's up from 66,000 last year. The supermax will start at 1.4 million, was 250,000 last year. And the revenue sharing in the NBA, it's basically 50, 50. It was 91 to the owners, 9 to the players. It's now 80, 20.
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C
We were doing improvements across the game,
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across the board, but still a long way to go. The other thing as well I thought was interesting is that they're adding new teams. It's not just more games every year, but adding new teams. Toronto Tempo and Portland Fire have joined the league for this 2026 season. Followed by franchises to come in. Cleveland, 2028, Detroit 2029, Philadelphia, 2030, bringing the league to a record 18 teams. And you can see them adding new teams quite quickly after that because there are a lot of major cities. Went and looked at the major cities that don't have one. Houston, Boston, Miami, Denver, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Casey, etc.
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A
And the expansion teams also just get absolutely banger attendance. The energy is real. And then you see that in the valuations as well. Right. I don't have those numbers in front of me, but it was only maybe five years ago that a WNBA expansion team required a $5 million investment. Then all of a sudden it was $50 million and now it's like $250 million. And this is all happening over the course of just a few years. So get in while the getting's good. If you're a rich guy right now, now's your chance because pretty soon you're not going to be able to get on this train.
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B
Yeah, the Caitlin Clark effect. So there's this phenomenon around just the popularity from this one individual and the effect that they've had on. On various element, different elements of life it seems. So I wanted to talk a bit about, about that. It's. Yeah, it's driven the surge in popularity in women's basketball because of Caitlin. Pal, what do you make of this concept? What conditions do you think? What do you think goes into creating this Caitlin Clark effect?
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C
I think we're seeing the level of investment that it requires to like help more stars. Flour like I could think about the NBA and I think of all the generational stars that I've seen in my lifetime and like I absolutely think it's replicable. I just think they haven't had the resources to do so. And I'm really excited to see who else pops up but I can't name names. I'm not good at that. So I'll let Ethan name names as to who he thinks is next.
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Well, I mean it's her. What goes into it's her own existence is vital to the continuation of this storyline because now she's the role model and she's a role model to a much wider scale of the population. She had her own role models in women's college basketball and then in the WNBA. Lots of trailblazers over the past 30 years who have come before her that she knew about but maybe not as many other people knew about. So now you've got this wide angle role model in her. So the next kid who we don't know, of course we don't know who this 12 year old is anywhere.
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C
But now you have people scouting for them, right. You have more greater investment in women who, I mean they are doing it for the love of the game as we said earlier. But like there's also that potential that this could be like a very viable career for me if I invest well enough. And yeah, I think yeah, it's the training, it's the scouting, it's the individual commitment and yeah, it's the.
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A
Well and then other people will invest in you I think. Which is your point or whoever this 12 year old is or 17 year
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C
old as cousins who have tried to be professional football players or I'm sorry professional soccer Players. Yes.
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A
Yeah, exactly. You need that support around you. And then I mean this is already happening at the NCAA level, right, where women's basketball is tremendously successful and there are plenty of schools out there throwing millions and millions of dollars at their women's program, which is great, but there's also plenty that aren't. And so there's room for improvement and expansion there. And unfortunately, for better or for worse, if you see dollar signs in people's eyes that can help move this along and then all of a sudden these people, the next Caitlin Clark or the next 10 Caitlin Clarks suddenly have a chance to appear.
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B
I, I'm not sure that we'll see another Caitlyn. And so there's. Yeah, so here's my. We might have. I mean we've got a lot of like Juju Watkins. Like there are a lot of other stars, people who just came into the league like Paige Beckers, Angel Reese obviously. But I don't know if we're going to see another one. Here's, here's why I think that also set the table by saying she's not incredibly like, she's not overly charismatic. You know, she's not like a Magic Johnson smiling all the time. You know, she's not like a big personality, she's quite reserved, she's quite quiet, she's not terribly flashy or so it's quite interesting that all of this stuff has kind of happened from quite a normal person.
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A
I disagree about the flashy stuff on the court. Or maybe you mean her personal life
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B
on the court, but personal.
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A
Personal life perfectly.
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B
Yeah. On the court she might be the most. Yeah. But I think there's a few things that have kind of gone into creating this Caitlin Clark effect. One of them is the logo threes. We saw them from Steph Curry and she's done that. So you know, we're not going to see someone else do that because we've already seen it. The other thing is the high. She got the highlight passing over like a LeBron James. She got the fast paced play of like a Showtime Lakers. She, she came into the league with Angel Reese and there was this rivalry that happened in college and it's similar to the Magic Bird rivalry that made, you know, Lakers and Celtics franchises even more popular than they were and they would, I mean Kane Clark in college was chasing records so she was a huge star. She, you know career points from a w. NCAA women's basketball player Angel Reese left winning first title for lsu. So huge rivalry there. She's kind of talks Trash like a Luka. Like, she's so many things. Players and like, storylines wrapped up into one person. I don't know if we're going to see that again. And on top of that, the NBA was primed. The WNBA was primed for this to happen. Like, the stage was perfectly set, and there's all these different.
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A
You know, I said it was raining here, and now apparently it's raining where you are also. I mean, come on. Come on.
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B
Yeah.
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C
You're so pessimistic about this. I think.
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A
I think this is not how sports work.
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C
No. I think people have way more eyes on it now, which means that they're paying more attention to these players, which means more opportunities for these things to stand out. And, like, this confluence of, I don't know, environmental factors. I don't know.
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A
It's like if someone had. You sound like someone in 1986 who's like, we're never gonna get another Magic and Bird, you know, this is the peak of the NBA, you know, meanwhile, Michael Jordan's right there. But we don't know, you know, like, it's. And LeBron.
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B
I think these players come. They come. Well, they come along once in a. In a blue. I mean, Jordan was the face of the league the whole time. Then you had. I mean, you had a bit of Kobe, but then you had LeBron. These people, the generational talents, they only come in once in a while, I think. Victor Wembanyama.
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C
So you're saying we won't have another Caitlin Clark in the immediate future? Okay, yes, I think.
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B
I agree.
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C
Yeah.
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B
I think in the next. Well, not even immediate future. I think in the next 10:15, it's still her job.
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A
She's the next. She's got to be Clayton Clark for a while. Like, first of all, she needs to win some more games.
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C
She needs to establish her legacy, like, firmly. But then also, that gives her the opportunity to pass it on, should she choose. Right. Just her successor eventually. And I think that continues that.
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A
I take your point, Marcus. That, like. Right. For the next five years. I mean, she has to do it. It has to be her. They haven't even. Indiana hasn't been very good. Angel Reese has been. She hasn't lost anything.
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B
Last year, they were the last four. Well, last year they got to the semis.
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A
They got to the semis without her. But the year before that, they were basically 500. But she needs to start playing for championships, and her rivals do, too. Right. There's not going to be a legendary rivalry with Angel Reese for much Longer if she never wins any games either. So like they're totally being outshone by the existing veterans, Liberty as well as that other team in Las Vegas. And you know, Asia Wilson, we haven't even mentioned the actual best player. Right. So. So all of this will come to fruition much, much better if she actually starts winning championships and then we can start to talk about who the next person is going to be. I mean you're jumping the gun here. Come on.
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B
I think there will be a next person. I just don't think we're going to see this type of like we had 4, 4x the number of people who watched the draft that she was in than the year before. The valuation of the team that you know has gone up 300%. We, we expect growth in women's live viewerships, live sports to go up 65% the year she came in and then kind of almost drop off a cliff the year after. So I think there might be people. But to have this person and then also to give credit where credit's due for the, the league was primed for this. You had a three time MVP Asia Wilson who had led the Las Vegas Aces to back to back championships. You had Brittney Griner who returned back in 2023 from being detained in Russia. So a lot of eyes were on that story. You had rising star Aaliyah Boston coming into the league. You had Sabrina Inescu competing against Steph Curry in the first NBA versus WNBA three point competition. So I just think there are a lot a confluence of factors which it was going to be hard to replicate to see that level of ascendance for one person, but maybe it will be replicable and maybe it will be in other sports. I want to talk about that for a second. Even what's next? You know, is this replicable? What will be the. In a different sport, what will be the next breakout women's sport or star?
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A
Yeah, that was a challenge. You fed us that question before we started and that was a challenging one because of. So I mean the answer I should give is someone like Trinity Rodman playing women's soccer. That would be the sort of conventional wisdom, right? She's such a generational talent that they literally changed the rules of the pay structure to prevent her from going over to Europe. So you can't get any more evidence than that. The entire league shifts around you because you are so unique. So she would be the answer. But of course the challenge is that in this country soccer has a harder time. The WNBA is in the best possible position for this kind of thing to happen, because we love our basketball here and we love our men's football, NFL football, even more. That's not a sport where there's a competitive league with women yet. But basketball is going to have an advantage. So you've got this tremendous success is already happening with the women's hockey league. Women's soccer league already has succeeded. Right. They've already proved to be sustainable. They're on that same expansion level that basketball is. They're signing new media deals, they're getting expansion teams, the crowds are overflowing everywhere. But those sports just aren't as popular as basketball. So, you know, I don't know that there's going to be something else quite like this at all. So it's more about the aggregate story, the general storyline of women's sports. They're all coming up. The boat is rising all across the board. It's gonna be at different levels because people have different degrees of passion for different sports in this country. And the women's soccer league had problems because it was doing so well and there's all this talent and the players are leaving for Europe. It's the reverse of what happens in basketball, where the best basketball players in Europe leave and come here. Our best soccer players just leave. So that's going to be. That makes it hard for the local league to ever sort of really make that leap. But they're doing it. I mean, the money's there, the media deals are there, it's on tv. It's just a slightly lower level than what the WNBA is at, but the growth is monumental.
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B
Yeah. Paola, before I jump in, did you want to pass? So I've got one as well, So I think that's a great one. Trinity Rodman is a fantastic one. I don't know a lot about her, but doing some research, learned a bit more recently. The other one I had was the new women's ice hockey league. So the PWHL Professional Women's Hockey League launched in 2024, started as six teams, it's already expanded to eight. And a few reasons I think this could be one to watch. One, it's backed by Mark Walter. So he's the billionaire who owns the LA Dodgers team. Majority owner in the Lakers NBA team. He's an investor in Chelsea Soccer Club, WNBA team, L.A. sparks. So $7 billion, lots of money. I think that's one driving factor. Number two, the kind of riding the recent wave of interest in women's ice hockey from the 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan where the US defeated Canada 2 to 1 in overtime to win the gold medal. Number three please.
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C
I'm sorry, tell me. Heated rivalry.
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B
Heated rivalry. But you can't tell me there isn't
- [25:21]
C
something in there that boosted interest in hockey. Okay.
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A
Not actually featuring women's hockey players perhaps.
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C
Quite a few viewers said a rising time.
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B
Yeah, yeah, no it's, that's a really good point. Yeah. Drive to survive. Shows that are on about a sport can at the time, if, if you're sport surging it can, it can really help. So I think that's a great, that's a great point. It just surpassed. So Ethan kind of referenced this earlier in terms of people like attendance. It really. They just surpassed the, the hockey, women's hockey. 1 million single season attendees for the first time. And like I said this, this started a couple of years ago. So Pat La Prada of the Hockey News noting that the average attendance in the three years the league has existed has grown from five and a half thousand to seven and a half thousand to over 9,000 people per game in a couple of years. And then lastly the, the past season the pwhl set a U.S. attendance record for women's ice hockey when a sold out crowd of 18,000 fans watch the New York Sirens host the Seattle Torrent at Madison Square Garden.
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C
Hockey's just fun. Like you don't really have to understand it. You just like watch a bunch of people like get rough with each other on the ice and do things you could never do. And yeah, it's one. It's a great sport regardless of who's playing. I can't believe it's taken this long.
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B
I know, I know. And I think Abby Murphy. So I was doing a bit of digging in terms who might be the breakout stuff. 20 A lot of quite a few people to choose from but Abby Murphy was the one for me. 24 year old American ice hockey forward. She's known for an aggressive style and also some electric skills. If you google Abby Murphy assist, she. It. It's insane. Just go, just go.
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C
Can we put that in the podcast? Can the team come up with like a recreation of it in diagrams so that we can play that?
- [27:18]
B
Lance John, if you could get on that. So she's been a star forward for the University of Minnesota. She's already a 2026 Olympic gold medalist, 2022 Olympic silver medalist, two time IIHF World Championship gold medalist with Team USA and she's gonna I think enter the draft for the Women's Hockey League this year. So I think Abby Murphy could be one to watch.
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A
I mean, they, they haven't figured out the magic that every league needs be to. To figure out, which is that the New York Sirens need to be better. They're like at the bottom of the league every time I check. So until they get good, I don't, I don't see why anyone would pay attention. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. I want to go to a Sirens game.
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B
But are they.
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C
Are the tickets still cheap?
- [27:55]
A
They probably are.
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C
All right, well,
- [27:59]
B
let's end with this, gang. So talks a lot about the growth of just women's sports in general. So, Paolo, I'll start with you. How are marketers capitalizing, or should they be capitalizing on a surge in popular in women's sports? And how do they make sure they don't get left behind?
- [28:16]
C
I think part of it is you have to understand that the way in which younger generations consume media has changed so drastically. I think that it's not. People keep repeating and saying that younger generations don't want to watch sports, there's less interest, blah, blah, blah. That's not true. People have the same amount of interest in sports, but they're not consuming it in the same way that previous generations did, which means that they're probably not sitting down and watching the entire game. They're consuming it in bite sized pieces. And so you kind of have to understand that the packaging comes that way and that the game is going to be interpreted that way and you have to lean into that.
- [28:51]
B
Yeah, that's a great point. The highlights part, that's another reason I thought the Caitlin. Caitlin had kind of taken off is a lot of her play, her style of play lends itself very well to highlights, which is shown on social media, on SportsCenter, things like that. And people are just watching the games differently.
- [29:05]
C
Yeah. And I think that you can't underplay the value of the social aspect of it as well. Right. Like, people want to be in the know when something exciting is happening. And I mean, we joked about heated rivalry, but like, I definitely, I got more content on women's hockey because I was getting hockey stuff in general, because I was looking at clips of the show. So, like, nice. You can use the algorithm to your advantage when it comes to things that lean into it. Right. So I think, yeah, that balance between, like, pop culture and socialization and wanting to be in the know and then just people's attention spans are just so, so much smaller. So just be aware of that.
- [29:40]
B
Yeah, great points. Ethan, how about for you?
- [29:43]
A
I mean, to Me, it's like this is new content. It's either new content or newly popular content where there's an opportunity to get in either at the ground floor or relatively close to the ground floor on a ship that is rising incredibly quickly. So I mean, it's almost too late with Caitlin Clark, right? You can't afford her in your ad. But there are plenty of other up and coming rising stars or existing stars in the WNBA that you can afford. But there's also these entire other leagues, right? I mean, the soccer league has new and creative media deals. There are entirely new streaming. The hockey league streams its games on YouTube and the soccer league has its own streaming app. I saw an article that you mentioned. Portland was one of the expansion teams for the wnba. There's an entirely new TV network, women's sports centric traditional TV over the air broadcast network in Portland, combining the soccer teams games and the WNBA teams games. This is all this creative new space, right. There's an opportunity here to get in with this that would be very challenging otherwise. And you can take a look at the growth, you can take a look at our forecast for women's sports viewership, but you can take a look at basically any other forecast in the world and you're just going to see these lines going straight up. So it seems to me that now is the time to form those relationships while you can, before you can't afford it anymore.
- [31:11]
C
What I'm also hearing is that so much of it is so fragmented and we were talking about this earlier about how people don't get their news in the same way, they don't get their information in the same way anymore. And so whoever can fill that gap where they can sort of create whatever the new version of a TV guide is for sports and where to find it and when to find it is going to benefit incredibly from that.
- [31:31]
A
So yeah, we all need that.
- [31:32]
C
There's a free idea for you. This is why you should tune in.
- [31:36]
A
I'm trying to be. I'm like, I try. I want to be a good Liberty fan, but. And I know their games are on somewhere, but I miss them a lot because I don't know where the games are. Yeah, I mean, we're all in the same position.
- [31:47]
B
That's a great point. Those are all great points. The two that I had, basically the ones that you had, one, get involved now because it's going to get more expensive, a sponsorship that is very quickly. And then the second one was touching on what, what PAL was saying about the social media part of it building campaigns around athletes, not just the teams. And I want to looks. Caitlin Clark has four times as many Instagram followers as her own team's account. Yeah, the Indiana Fever. If she. If Caitlin Clark went to the NBA this season, she'd almost crack the top 25 in terms of players with the most Instagram followers.
- [32:22]
A
Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, that almost. That almost crosses all sports, right? It's about players now first and then teams. You know, unless you're in New York, of course, which case, by the way, shout out.
- [32:33]
C
In which case, Ellie the elephant is the true star of the show.
- [32:37]
A
It's entirely about your jersey, not about your name. I haven't shouted out FC Gotham, by the way, even though they play in New Jersey. But they won two championships.
- [32:44]
C
We claim them. Yeah, they're New Yorkers.
- [32:46]
B
Turn this into the New York sports team.
- [32:48]
C
This is what you get for not being here with us. Okay? You need to come visit.
- [32:52]
B
Yeah, I know, I know. Stuart's got no problems with it whatsoever as a New York fan himself, so probably keep it in. Even though I would. Cut it out. That's all we've got time for for today's episode next. Yeah, hopefully see you in the game next month. Thank you so much to Lance Michael. I know Luigi Michael wasn't there. John Stuart, who runs the team, the whole production crew helping us out with this one. Thanks, of course, to my guests. Thank you to Paola.
- [33:18]
C
Thank you so much. This was so much more fun than I thought it would be. Listen, okay. I proud a lot. I was very nervous. I don't know, I don't know extensively about sports. More than like to do my job. So this was actually really, really enjoyable and I think I might watch more now.
- [33:35]
B
Thank you to Ethan.
- [33:36]
A
Yeah, man, I gotta go watch this game. I'll see you later, Marcus.
- [33:38]
B
And of course, thank you to everyone for listening to in the Game, the Marketer sports marketing podcast. It.