Podcast Summary: Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast

Episode: Delta Plans AI-Driven Personalized Pricing—Is This Retail's Future? | Reimagining Retail

Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Rachel Wolff
Guests: Suzy David Kanyon (VP of Content), Zach Stambor (Senior Analyst)

Overview

This episode explores Delta’s controversial move to expand AI-driven, personalized flight pricing. The discussion extends to the broader questions of dynamic pricing versus surveillance pricing, implications for consumer trust, regulatory responses, and the potential future of AI-powered pricing in retail.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Delta’s Announcement & Public Backlash

• Delta’s AI Pricing Expansion: Delta intends to use generative AI to personalize flight prices, moving from 3% to 20% of flights by year’s end (00:56).
• Consumer & Lawmaker Anxiety: The personalization aspect spurred backlash and a letter of concern from Senators over data privacy and cost implications (00:56).
• Mixed Messaging from Delta: Delta described their plan as “personalized pricing to the individual” to investors, but downplayed individual targeting in response to lawmakers, causing confusion and distrust (01:44–02:53).
  • Zach: “It felt like Big Brother...they delivered mixed messages. When talking to investors, it was about [targeting] individuals. Later, it was a broader pool of data.” (01:44)
  • Suzy: “There seems to be a trust gap. [Delta is] telling different stakeholder groups different things...it’s the way you do it and the way you frame it.” (02:53)

2. Defining Dynamic vs. Surveillance Pricing

• Dynamic Pricing: Adjusts based on market factors like supply, demand, or time (E.g., happy hour, matinee pricing, Uber/Lyft surge) (04:06–07:12).
  • Zach: “Happy hour is the prime example of dynamic pricing: lower the price, demand goes up.” (04:06)
  • “Dynamic pricing is pricing that adjusts based on market conditions...Surveillance pricing is when prices adjust based on the individual's data.” (07:12)
• Surveillance Pricing: Adjusts prices using personal data (e.g., location, membership, demographics, browsing). Feels intrusive, discriminatory, and less transparent (07:12–07:58).
  • “Lina Khan...even suggested it might be based on your mouse movements...all sorts of very personal information.” (07:12)
  • Suzy: “Much more discriminatory...that’s very different from coupons and promotions.” (07:58)
• Transparency Matters: Dynamic pricing is accepted when predictable and visible; surveillance pricing is disturbing due to its opacity and individual focus (03:53–04:36, 07:58–08:32).

3. Consumer Psychology & Trust

• Perceptions of Fairness: consumers accept dynamic pricing in some markets (airlines, rideshare, movie times) but bristle at unpredictability and individual targeting (05:16–06:50).
  • Suzy: “It seems much more palatable than a constant black box that could be surveillance, in addition to all the privacy concerns.” (04:36)
  • Zach: “Once trust is gone, it's really hard to win that back.” (08:32)
• Gamification & Deal-Seeking: Promo codes and sales reward savvy consumers; surveillance pricing erases this agency (10:11).
  • Suzy: “It’s not only are they being squeezed, but also...‘Are you kidding me? You don’t think I understand the system well enough to get it at the best price for me?’” (10:11)
• Stat: 68% of consumers believe dynamic pricing is price gouging (Civic Science survey, March) (09:08).

4. High-Profile Case Studies

• Wendy’s Dynamic Pricing Backfire: Digital menu dynamic pricing at Wendy’s led to a public uproar, stemming from a perception of always-higher prices (09:27).
  • Zach: “Shoppers are going to assume, rightly or wrongly, that they're going to end up paying more...they don’t like that.” (09:27)

5. Regulatory Environment

• State-Led Efforts: Federal action is unlikely; individual states (CA, IL, GA) are beginning to legislate, but patchwork laws are stalling or narrowing (12:26–13:23).
  • Zach: “I do not think the FTC is going to act. I think it will be up to the states...But we haven’t even gotten there. Some [bills] are narrowing, stalling, or falling flat.” (12:26)
  • Rachel: “Do you think that will change if inflation or tariffs drive pricing attention?” (13:13)
  • Zach: “There could be some push...but California’s bill just stalled out.” (13:23)

6. Potential Consumer & Retailer Benefits

• Transparency as Key: Dynamic pricing can help move inventory and reduce waste when applied transparently (e.g., Dutch grocer discounting near-expiry products) (13:52–14:45).
  • Zach: “There’s a Dutch grocer...dynamic pricing to move products that are going to expire. Consumers can get a pretty steep discount.” (13:52)

Memorable Quotes

• Zach: “It felt icky. It felt like Big Brother.” (01:44)
• Suzy: “There seems to be a trust gap, and the company isn’t authentic and transparent.” (02:53)
• Zach: “Surveillance pricing is different and it feels very different to the consumer because it’s about you...your personal data and how your personal data is being used.” (04:06)
• Suzy: “Dynamic pricing is so different from surveillance pricing.” (06:50)
• Rachel: “68% of consumers agree that dynamic pricing is price gouging.” (09:08)
• Zach: “Once trust is gone, it’s really hard to win that back.” (08:32)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:56 — Delta’s AI pricing plans and lawmaker response
• 01:44 — Mixed messaging and consumer perception
• 04:06 — Examples/definitions: dynamic vs. surveillance pricing
• 07:12 — In-depth breakdown of surveillance pricing
• 09:08 — Consumer attitudes & trust statistics
• 09:27 — Wendy’s dynamic pricing backlash
• 10:11 — Gamification and the consumer experience
• 12:26 — Regulatory state of play
• 13:52 — Dynamic pricing transparency case (Dutch grocer)

Conclusion

The episode delves deeply into the implications of AI-powered personalized pricing. While dynamic pricing is not new, its shift toward personal surveillance and lack of transparency poses risks to consumer trust and brand equity. Retailers and regulators alike face tough questions about fairness, disclosure, and how to balance efficiency with consumer protection.

If you’re a retailer, understanding where dynamic ends and surveillance begins—and communicating that distinction transparently—is critical for adopting AI-driven pricing without alienating customers.