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Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast
“Everyone Watches The WNBA” — How Women’s Sports Are Changing Audiences and Advertising | Behind the Numbers
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A
Consumers skip ads, but they don't skip rewards. They have no reason to. Fetch drives performance with over 12 and a half million monthly active users. And that's not enough. Over 11 and a half million receipts scanned every single day. That captures 88% of household spend. That's basically all of it. Your brand becomes the reward, earning real engagement, verified purchases and loyalty. What more do you want? Fetch, it's America's rewards app where brands are the centerpiece of joy. Hey gang. It's Monday, October 27th.
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B
Power.
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A
Marissa and listeners, welcome to behind the Numbers Lee marketer video podcast made possible by Fetch. I'm Marcus and joining me for today's conversation, we have two New York based folks. We have demographics analyst, it's Paola Flores Marquez.
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C
Hello.
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A
Hello there. And we also have one of our analysts, Marisa Jones.
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C
Hi, Marcus.
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B
Thank you for having me.
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A
Absolutely. Today's fact. What is the Pulitzer Prize and where did it come from? So I just read To Kill a Mockingbird the first time by Harper Lee. And then I read all the Light We Cannot See by Anthony Doa, I think is how you pronounce his name. Which I didn't realize until after finishing them that they both won the Pulitzer Prize for fiction, 1961 and 2015 respectively. So I was wondering about the origins of this prize. And so the Pulitzer Prize, most prestigious award in America for excellence in journalism, literature and music. It originated from the 1904 War Will of Joseph Pulitzer, Hungarian American politician and a newspaper publisher of the St. Louis Post Dispatch and the New York World. He left funds to Columbia University to establish the prizes and the first school of journalism. The prizes were awarded starting in 1917.
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C
You have such good taste in books. Mine are just like fantasy novels. Mine are just like normally.
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A
Yeah, normally mine are that or historical fiction, I guess. But my mum recommended all the Light We Cannot See, so I won't take credit for that. And somebody else, another friend of mine suggested I read To Kill a Mockingbird. So I can't take credit, but they were brilliant. Have you guys read all the Light?
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C
I haven't read that. I read To Kill a Mockingbird and then I think, I think I read of my favorite Pulitzer books, the Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wilde. I think that also won the Pulitzer. And I love that book.
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A
Yes, that one did actually. Yes. I was looking at this. Yeah, I've never been stopped more and asked about a book than when I was reading all the Light We Cannot See, like twice, two or three times every single day. Someone either wanted to Read or had read it. Yeah.
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C
All right. Now I just want to meet people just for that.
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A
It's. Yeah, it's absolutely a conversation piece. Anyway, today's real topic, how the WNBA is changing sports audiences. So a record breaking 2025 WNBA season just wrapped up with the Las Vegas Aces sweeping Get your brooms out. The Phoenix Mercury as Asia Wilson secured her third title and fourth MVP award, furthering her case as the Goat. The league had a lot to be happy about. Andrew McCarthy of Athlon Sports notes the WN averaged 1.3 million viewers, which is up 6% year over year, marking the most watched WNBA regular season on ESPN Networks. It was also the most watched WNBA Post season on ESPN, averaging 1.2 million viewers, up 5% year over year. And the Finals averaged 1.5 million viewers across the four games, making it the second most watched WNBA Finals ever on ESPN behind only 2024 last year when the Liberty, New York Liberty won. Marissa, I'll start with you. What's your take on this year's WNBA viewership numbers?
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B
I think viewership is showing just that there is such an increased interest in this league and that it's a trend that we really aren't expecting to go anywhere soon. We see last year the Caitlin Clark effect, which a lot of people assuming that Caitlin Clark's popularity is kind of the reason for these strong viewership numbers. But we're seeing that she was notably absent due to injuries this season. So this is kind of reflecting, in my opinion, a broader truth that women's sports isn't just a temporary trend that's going to fade in relevance for viewers and advertisers. It's something that is increasingly of interest to audiences. And I think as we're seeing the WNBA strike deals with platforms like Prime Video and other streamers, the that's really only going to allow this growth to continue trending upward.
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C
Yeah, I completely agree, especially with the last piece. I think access plays such a huge role in people's ability to dive into this interest in hobby and trend. I think we've talked about before about how fragmented watching sports can be and how difficult it can be to access them. So the more that people are able to sort of engage with it not just on through television but in social media and then like in their local spaces, like the more that that sort of combines to be like a greater cultural touch point. Yeah, it's really exciting to see now.
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A
Yeah, just circling back to your point about the Caitlin Clark effect. I think next year we'll get another Huge boost because as you mentioned, she won't miss almost the entire season as she did this year. She played only 13 of the 44 games, regular season games after suffering the groin injury. There was an article by Javier Ruiz of MARCA was titled the WNBA no longer needs Caitlin Clark. But I don't agree. I think that it was able to grow incrementally as you saw from those numbers, 5%, 6% growth of the regular season playoffs. But I think you're going to need her to register another windfall. And there's two pieces of evidence here, I think. One, exhibit A. Caitlin Clark's impact hasn't been limited to the screens. According to Sports Illustrated, she drove to 27% of the league's economic activity in 2024 through merch sales, tickets and sponsorships. And that is what former player and now TV broadcaster Debbie Antonelli calls Clarkonomics. The economic impact that Caitlin has had on basketball. And she created that momentum obviously the year before with a WNBA debut game in 2024 drawing 2.1 million viewers. That's the most watched WNBA broadcast in 23 years. And the draft she was in that year had four times the number of viewers than the previous year. So I think that's a huge part. And then it's fascinating to see exhibit B, what happens when Caitlin stops playing. And we got a flavor of that this year after the 13th game when she went down after her season ending injury in July, viewership for nationally televised games was cut in half. I know I stopped watching not all of the games, but more. So I'm an Indiana Fever fan as of when she joined the league. And so her not being in the league definitely led myself and others to kind of step back a bit. So I think you're going to get another significant bump next year when she's there for the full season.
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C
Where is your solidarity with your team, Marcus? Like, what is this?
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A
I did continue watching, but it's not as much. I wasn't as invested because she got me invested in the game. But there were, yeah, there were a lot of other, a lot of other, like, exciting moments to watch and players to follow with Kelsey Mitchell and Aaliyah Boston and so. But I think a lot of people joined the league. Sorry. Started watching the W for Caitlin.
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C
I mean, for better or worse, star power is always going to be a draw. Right? Like, you want a recognizable face and a recognizable brand. So. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense.
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A
Yeah. And those, those faces showing up more and more, not just on the screen during live games, but on Social media and folks engaging that way. Looking at the men's game for a second, Senior Director of briefings Jeremy Goldman noting that the 2025 NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana pacers averaged just 10.2 million viewers according to Nielsen, which is amongst the lowest in recent history. But he says it wasn't a lack of interest in basketball that caused the decline. Rather it represents systematic changes in the way and places that viewers, particularly younger ones, decide to watch live sports. Pal, will social media derail full game viewership growth of the men's game or the women's one?
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C
I don't think so. Not at all. I mean you see it somewhat with television, but one thing that I think a lot of major networks had to learn the hard way is that they kept thinking that they were competing with YouTube or they were competing with social media. But it's not that. It's that those become parts of your arsenal. Right. Like you have to be promoting cross channel and it doesn't take away from people's interest in consuming the entire piece, especially if they are die hard fans. It kind of comes down to is it something worth watching and that's more on the game itself than it is on the channels?
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A
Yeah, I thought that younger people would have watched more highlights than live games, but they don't. There's some research here. You can see from this chart from Altman Soln looking at the average time spent per week watching live sports versus high highlights worldwide by age. And it's a lot closer. It's a lot closer contest between those two formats for younger folks with young people 18 to 24. Well actually you could say 34 as well. Basically young people watching about 4ish 3 to 4ish hours of live games versus closer to. So about 4 hours for live games, about 3 hours for highlights. So less. But for the older folks, they watch significantly more live sports content. So I was interested. Yeah. Fascinating to kind of learn that.
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C
Yeah, I think we touched on this a couple weeks ago too on the Gen Z podcast where it's like there is still a craving for like live experiences. I mean these are obviously not all, are not all in person, but it still offers a communal opportunity to like be amongst people and like be together and watch them together. Right. Like there's the, there's a basic interest in the sport and wanting to consume it and then there's also like the feeling of community that it brings. And Gen Z, I think craves that a little bit more intensely than us right now because they're in that stage where they're very nostalgic for, like, free phones and pre social media. So, like, I think that's a little bit of it as well.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Marissa, do you think that the growth of social media and the changing viewership behaviors in terms of where they're consuming sports could potentially hinder this. This surge of WNBA viewership?
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B
I would agree that it not is necessarily going to be a detriment to it. I think it really just matters how women's sports adapts to the shift to digital, especially in reaching younger audiences. Using social content and diversifying distribution is really going to be key at expanding presence to social platforms and, of course, streaming services. As people shift to streaming platforms through things like making live games and highlights available on these platforms will reach younger consumers and really help drive growth as people prefer digital consumption. Kind of embracing social media engagement. Actively sharing this content on social media and behind the scenes will not only drive viewers to engage more with the sport, but it could in turn drive viewers to watching live broadcasts, whether that's on cable or on streaming platforms. And I think that will, in embracing that shift, will help women's sports and all sports really grow.
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C
Yeah. And it reaches a wider audience, too. When you tap into those channels, like you're reaching an audience, like, the algorithm will suggest things to you that are tangentially related, and suddenly you're like, actually, yeah, I really love this. I want to go see a Liberty game, which I did. I did do that. So.
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A
You did? Yeah, yeah.
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C
Sample size of 1.
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A
Nice. Was that this year or last year when they won the title?
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C
I went earlier this year.
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A
Earlier this year. Nice. Okay. We're speaking about those kind of expanding audiences. The WNBA is also going. Not just the boost from Caitlin, but they're also adding expansion teams. So the league is growing as well. There are more teams. They're pulling in more fans, and there will be more games to tune into. As a result of that, they have expansion teams in Portland and Toronto that will be joining the league next year. And then they've got Cleveland, Detroit, and Philly teams joining 2028, 2029, and 2030. And by just 2027, there's the collective, which is one source estimating that the WNBA viewership will jump over 30% from 2024 to 2027. That's before those other extra teams join the fray. Also, really quickly, Jeremy's point about low, low NBA viewership numbers. Part of that, as he points out in the piece, could be down to the fact that there were smaller markets. In the Finals, it was Oklahoma City and it was Indiana. He said Oklahoma city is the 47th largest TV market in the country and Indiana is the 25th. So that could have also contributed to it. It wasn't like New York or LA or whoever were Chicago were in the Finals. Marissa, you recently wrote that women's sports are surging, presenting an opportunity for advertisers, highlighted by a lot of the numbers that we've mentioned. What should advertisers be paying attention to the most amidst this surge?
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B
There's a lot to look at, but I think the one I'll focus on is just how effective advertising during women's sports is. We're seeing these ads showing a 40% greater impact on consumer engagement compared with the average primetime TV ad, which is a 56% year over year jump. That's according to Edo. So I really think advertisers need to be paying attention to sponsorships in women's sports, capitalizing on this heightened engagement and seeing women's sports as a long term investment, early adopters, especially for advertisers, as women's sports is still gaining popularity, are going to see a lot of benefits before this becomes a more saturated market and mainstream.
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A
I liked the, I mean for me, I think it's a great one. For me it was, we kind of touched this, touched on this already. But I think it's worth reiterating as a point for advertisers to pay particular attention to. Sports happens beyond the game itself. And you know, Jeremy was saying, you know, in a media world shaped by digital habits and shifting generational preferences, TV ratings alone no longer capture the full picture of sports reach or relevance. And two folks here cited, Tam and George. Both of these cited an Ad Week piece. Tam and George, co founder and CEO of Creative Theory Agency, thinks that in the digital age, what happens outside the game can be just as compelling to audiences. And Doug Rosen, president of Cadent, saying whether it's the super bowl or the Olympics, few advertisers can afford those marquee moments. But that's okay because sports isn't a game, just consumed on the field. Lots of avenues to get your content out there, from fantasy teams to sports betting to viral clips on social media. Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift. Sports moments are embedded in our culture.
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C
May I share my favorite stat from Marissa's article? The point about how women lead in content volume across platforms, but engagement is mostly led by men. I thought that was really fascinating.
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A
Yes, and even more fascinating for the platforms as well. Right?
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C
That Was my next point. Yes, I think it's very, very indicative of what when you're investing in these platforms to like perform, you need to know who your audience is. Right. And so TikTok is very, very female dominated in general too. Like it's very Gen Z heavy and it's very female heavy. So like if that's like sort of the audience you're targeting, like that's where you're going to find it. And so yeah, you just got to make sure that the tailor content to that and our forecasts help with that if anybody needs help.
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A
Yeah, yeah, they do. Yeah. I mean, looking at women's live sports viewership in the U.S. we have those numbers and. And they have. It's doubled. Women's live sports viewership in the US has more than doubled, I shouldn't say doubled in the past three years. So it's gone from 2 million folks watching to 5 million folks from 2022 to 2025, according to that forecasting team that Paola was just referencing. And the dollars following too. By the summer, this past summer, Disney ad revenue from the WNBA had grown 77.0percent compared to last season. So the dollars showing up. Yeah, in that piece. Marissa, you had a bunch of stats about, you know, WNBA social media engagement skyrocketing in 2024. You mentioned the 2 billion video views across social the four times previous year. WNBA app monthly active users, TikTok viewers views. Sorry. Both up over 250% year over year. So the stat, I mean you can't move for stats on how explosive the growth is in this space. Any other thoughts in terms of advertisers and what things they should be keying into?
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B
I would say beyond Caitlin Clark, look at popular athletes. Consumers connect with these athletes and are likely to purchase products or look into brands that sponsor are sponsored by these athletes. So look at the full slate, see who consumers are really connecting with and go from there. Yeah.
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C
I would also try to make sure that like when it comes to a lot of this like interactive content or merchandise to keep it at a price point that's affordable for younger generations because you're trying to invest in them to be long term fans and not everyone can afford like, you know, extensive or like really expensive merchandise. But they want to participate. That's part of the fandom. So you want to make sure that there's accessible entry points for those younger fans.
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A
Yeah, yeah, both great points. We'll be talking a lot about the WNBA for this episode, but a lot of other women's sports with some incredibly prolific athletes to pay attention to and work with potentially. I'll end, Marissa by quoting you in one of your pieces. I thought it's a great, a great point. Basically, don't miss the boat on this, I think, is what you're saying here. And you say, quote, advertisers looking to reach tuned in audiences at a lower cost of entry should view sports advertising opportunities like soccer and women's sports as critical investments. Not a last resort. You say as engagement with smaller name sports climbs. Thanks to growing media coverage and strong community fandoms, early movers can secure premium ad placements before costs surge. Brands that align with Sports now benefit and I really love this piece. Brands that align with Sports now benefit from a passionate, loyal fan base whilst positioning themselves to ride momentum in the years coming ahead. This is only going up, so get in now whilst you can. That's all we've got time for for this episode, but thank you so much to my guests. Thank you to Paola.
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C
Thank you so much, Marcus. This was fun.
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A
Yes, indeed. And to Marissa.
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B
Yeah, thank you for having me.
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A
Absolutely. And thanks to the whole editing crew and to everyone for listening to behind the Numbers new market video podcast made possible by Fetch. Like Subscribe, Share, review rate, all those things, please. If you have a moment tomorrow you can spend a little time with Susie David Canyon as she talks on the Reimagining retail show about our top eight most interesting retailers of the month list for October.