Behind the Numbers: How Much Traditional Media Still Matters — Last Stand or a New Beginning?

Date: October 13, 2025
Host: Marcus Johnson
Guests: Ross Benish (Senior Digital Media Analyst), Zach Goldner (Senior Forecasting Analyst)

Episode Overview

This episode digs deep into the enduring relevance—but uncertain future—of traditional media (TV, radio, print, out of home) in an advertising landscape increasingly dominated by digital. Marcus, Ross, and Zach analyze why traditional media still commands $100 billion in annual U.S. ad spend, the nuanced shifts in consumer behavior, and whether we’re watching a last stand or witnessing unexpected renewal.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Television: The Giant Goes Digital, but Traditional Roots Hold

• TV's Shifting Roles

  • Despite alarming headlines, traditional TV ad spend remains significant: ~$50 billion, or 12% of total U.S. media.
  • Streaming vs. Linear: Time spent watching streaming TV (46%) surpassed linear (42%), but ad dollars lag behind.
  • CTV (Connected TV) Ad Spend:
    • Expected to reach 50% of all TV ad spending by 2027.
    • “CTV...will soon command just 1/3 of total TV ad spend," but, Ross notes, even with viewing shifts, ad loads and measurement worries slow monetization.

• What Holds CTV Back? The “Blame Pie”

  • Ross’s breakdown (05:01):
    • 40%: Lower ad loads on CTV vs. linear. “Linear TV is 15 minutes of ads per hour. Everyone gets ads. CTV...a few minutes to maybe 10.”
    • 40%: Ad-free viewing—many use ad-free tiers.
    • 20%: Advertiser concerns—brand suitability, measurement, and unpredictable placement, especially via programmatic and on platforms like YouTube.
  • Zach disagrees slightly (06:42):
    • 50%: Ad load gap.
    • 40%: Sports—a major “sticky” factor for linear TV; key content only slowly migrating to streaming.
    • 10%: Political ad spend—remains largely on local, linear TV, especially in election years.

• Quote:

  "Linear TV is still the vast majority [of ad load]...if it's 15 minutes of ads per hour on every service you use, people would probably abandon it for other stuff." — Ross (05:01)

2. Radio: Unexpectedly Robust in a Digital Era

• The Numbers:

  • $10 billion remains for U.S. radio ads.
  • Radio remains the largest ad-supported audio format: 64% of time spent, ahead of podcasts (19%) and streaming audio.
  • Advertisers value reach: 66% of drivers listen to AM/FM radio, compared to just 20% for music streaming in cars.

• Podcast Takeover?

  • Podcasts are gaining ground; high engagement but not yet displacing radio’s reach.
  • Notable stat: “Nearly 9 in 10 Americans taking some action after hearing a podcast ad and 4 in 10 having made a purchase from a brand advertised on a podcast.” (10:38)

3. Out of Home (OOH): Old-School Resilience Meets Digital Innovation

• Market Size:

  • ~$9 billion in ad spend, nearly washing with radio.

• Digital OOH Fuels Growth

  • Digital out of home (DOOH) now ~36% of total OOH, up from 26% in 2020 (15:52-16:29).
  • Programmatic and digital placement (on gas pumps, kiosks, etc.) offer new measurement, ROI, and efficiency—spurring 3% growth even in a non-election year.

• Brand Tactics:

  • Brands like Apple, Amazon, HBO, Netflix drive digital OOH, using it for big awareness campaigns.
  • Creative activations—like scratch-and-sniff billboards for beauty brands—help OOH break through digital clutter.

• Quote:

  “Most out of home is still traditional...the meat and potatoes of this industry is still old school billboards... it's held up much better than print or television." — Ross (14:14)

4. Print: Nostalgic Resurgence or Fading Slowdown?

• Small Uptick in Niche Print

  • Some media (Onion, Complex, Playboy, etc.) relaunch print editions to stand out amid digital overload.
  • Case study: The Onion growing revenue from $2M to $6M (Barnes & Noble deal), aiming for profitability.

• Big Picture: Print’s Bleak Forecast

  • Still a $5.5B ad segment today, but expected to shrink by 40% by 2029.
  • Even new “buzz” around print initiatives is, the hosts agree, not enough to reverse long-term decline.

• Quote:

  “They’re nice niche operations…but I don’t think it’s going to be a direct money maker...the industry trend is still going to be what it is and that's downward.” — Ross (18:01)
  "You’re seeing the entire distribution infrastructure that made print viable...collapsed." — Zach (18:43)

5. Memorable & Notable Exchanges

• Sports as a Last Stand for Linear TV: Streaming rights for sports are split, but tens of millions still watch on linear—keeping ad dollars there, especially for political campaigns. (07:43-08:52)
• Print’s Unique Refuge:
  • Zach ponders if adult magazines like Playboy might see a niche renaissance as state regulations tighten digital access, but neither expects major ad growth. (19:00)
• Reality Check on Innovation: Even with digital innovation, traditional formats remain resilient largely due to infrastructure and behavioral inertia rather than transformative new business models. (15:29-15:52)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• On TV/CTV Ad Loads:

  "Linear TV is 15 minutes of ads per hour. Everyone gets ads. [...] That’s probably a good thing for user experience." — Ross (05:10)

• On OOH's Staying Power:

  “The meat and potatoes of this industry is still old school billboards... it's held up much better than print... which have seen pretty steep free falls.” — Ross (14:14)

• On Print’s Niche Resurgence:

  “They’re nice niche operations that are good for getting brands noticed… I don’t think it’s going to be a direct money maker.” — Ross (18:01)

• On Podcast Effectiveness:

  “Nearly 9 in 10 Americans taking some action after hearing a podcast ad and 4 in 10 having made a purchase from a brand advertised on a podcast.” — Marcus (10:38)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• CTV/TV Ad Spend Debate: 03:37–10:00 (“Blame Pie”; Sports, Ad Load, Political spending)
• Radio’s Resilience, Podcasts: 10:00–11:45
• Out of Home, Digital OOH Growth: 11:45–16:30
• Print, Niche Resurgence & Bleak Reality: 16:30–20:12

Tone & Takeaways

Tone: Informal, conversational, and peppered with media-insider humor and skepticism.

Takeaways:

• Traditional media is battered, not broken—still offering massive reach, moments of innovation, and stubbornly slow declines.
• Digital is ascendant, especially in out-of-home and TV, but ad dollars lag behind actual consumer behavior shifts.
• Niche wins (revived print editions, creative OOH activations) make noise but aren't reversing the long-term trend lines.
• Expect more hybrid approaches, especially as campaigns and categories (sports, politics) slowly migrate to CTV and digital.

Final Thought:
Traditional media still commands attention—and dollars—but new beginnings look less like a renaissance and more like a slow, strategic adaptation.