Podcast Summary: Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast
Episode: How (Not) to Rebrand | Reimagining Retail
Release Date: October 1, 2025
Host: Suzy Deva Kenyon
Guests: Rachel Wolf (Analyst), Zach Stamborg (Senior Analyst)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the critical differences between brand refreshes and full-blown rebrands, using recent and historic case studies to examine what makes—or breaks—a brand’s evolution. The conversation spotlights the pitfalls of poorly executed rebrands (with Cracker Barrel as a cautionary tale) and contrasts them to successful overhauls (Uber, Kia), all with a focus on practical lessons for retailers and marketers. Key questions addressed include: When should a brand refresh versus rebrand? How important is nostalgia? Do consumers notice subtle changes? And what steps can brands take to avoid alienating loyal customers?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Brand Refresh vs. Rebrand

[03:01]

• Rachel Wolf:
  • Brand refresh: Primarily cosmetic—logo, font, colors, slogan updates to keep up with trends.
  • Full rebrand: Overhauls not just visuals, but core brand strategy and identity.
• Zach Stamborg:
  • Agrees with Rachel; sees rebrands as “a fundamental rethinking or repositioning of what the brand is, who its target audience is, what its mission is, and what is it seeking to achieve.”

2. What Triggers a Rebrand?

[03:58]

• Rachel Wolf: Trend-following/FOMO can spark logo updates (luxury brands in mid-2010s); companies may feel pressure when competitors evolve.
• Zach Stamborg: “A rebrand... often stems from the company or the brand’s recognition that what they're doing isn't working anymore. They need to get people’s attention in a new way…” [04:23]
• Packaging changes can also prompt confusion or backlash if familiarity is lost (e.g., Tropicana).

3. Successful Rebrand Case Studies

Kia (2021) [05:50]

• Zach Stamborg:
  • Kia’s dramatic visual overhaul (new geometric silver logo) initially confused people but generated curiosity (“what is KN?”), resulting in social buzz.
  • Crucially tied to a real business shift: repositioned as a forward-looking automaker, launched EVs, and changed product strategy.
  • “The rethink of the logo matched the identity that they were seeking to grab... their sales have gone up and to the right since they did the rebrand.” [07:32]

Uber (2018) [08:06]

• Rachel Wolf:
  • Uber’s rebrand was not just aesthetic; it followed a culture crisis, CEO shakeup, and a “cultural reset.”
  • Reformulated company values, mission, and public trust.
  • “It wasn't just an aesthetic rebrand… it was also a cultural reset that was about rebuilding trust among drivers, employees, riders… And it has been really successful.” [08:51]

4. Rebrand Failures: What Went Wrong?

Cracker Barrel (2025) [09:26]

• Changed its long-recognized, nostalgic logo for a modern, simplified design—resulted in immediate backlash and drop in sales.
• Zach Stamborg:
  • “They forgot about who their core customer was… they wanted to attract new customers, but you also have to retain your current customer base.” [09:42]
  • Changes were too rapid and wide-ranging (logo, restaurant redesign).
• Rachel Wolf:
  • “You’re both alienating your existing customer base and not doing enough to attract the customer that you want.” [10:29]
  • Example compared to JCPenney’s failed overhaul by Ron Johnson.

5. Brands That Stuck to Their Rebrand

Jaguar [12:32]

• Zach Stamborg:
  • Rebranding with intention: Going all-electric, targeting new, younger, affluent customers, fully comfortable losing much of its traditional base.
  • “A fundamental rethinking of what Jaguar is, who it’s seeking to attract, makes sense for it.”

6. Nostalgia’s Role

[13:19]

• Zach Stamborg:
  • Depends on the brand—Cracker Barrel is built on nostalgia, but that can create limitations.
• Rachel Wolf:
  • “Nostalgia is a tricky emotion to build a brand around, because it is limiting... it might work better as a marketing tool rather than a branding tool.” [13:49]
• Burger King succeeded by “taking a page from its past but also seeking to spin it forward.” [14:08]

7. Do Consumers Really Notice Small Changes?

[15:11]

• Zach Stamborg:
  • Subtle adjustments often go unnoticed, which can be an asset.
  • “Small iterative steps are important for keeping the brand feeling fresh even when somebody doesn’t notice it.”
• Rachel Wolf:
  • Cites Adobe Express survey: Only 34% of consumers first notice a logo when assessing a brand.

8. How to Rebrand Successfully (Mitigating Risks)

[16:18]

• Rachel Wolf:
  • Must have a clear, compelling narrative: “The reason that you're updating your brand shouldn't just be, we needed a new logo. There has to be some sort of narrative behind it…”
• Zach Stamborg:
  • “Ensuring that the inside matches the outside, so to speak. It's not just cosmetic changes… fully reflecting the fundamental shift.”
• Suzy Deva Kenyon:
  • Importance of research and testing, “do some research… talk to your customers,” to avoid touching "sacred" elements carelessly.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A brand refresh is like a visual update… whereas a full on rebrand… is overhauling your brand strategy and your identity as a company.”
  — Rachel Wolf [03:01]

• “A rebrand… often stems from the company’s recognition that what they’re doing isn’t working anymore.”
  — Zach Stamborg [04:23]

• “You’re both alienating your existing customer base and not doing enough to attract the customer that you want.”
  — Rachel Wolf [10:29]

• “Nostalgia is a tricky emotion to build a brand around because it is limiting.”
  — Rachel Wolf [13:49]

• “Small iterative steps are important for keeping the brand feeling fresh even when somebody doesn’t notice it.”
  — Zach Stamborg [15:11]

• “The reason that you're updating your brand shouldn't just be, we needed a new logo. There has to be some sort of narrative behind it that consumers and people within the company can get behind...”
  — Rachel Wolf [16:18]

Important Timestamps

• 03:01 — Defining brand refresh vs. full rebrand
• 05:50 — Kia rebrand case study
• 08:06 — Uber rebrand case study
• 09:26 — Breakdown of Cracker Barrel’s failed rebrand
• 12:32 — Jaguar: sticking to a dramatic new direction
• 13:19 — Role of nostalgia in branding
• 15:11 — Do consumers notice changes?
• 16:18 — Mitigating risks in a rebrand; importance of narrative
• 17:49 — The logo as merely one part of the greater brand puzzle

Tone & Atmosphere

The discussion is direct, insightful, and conversational, with an analytical bent that’s punctuated by occasional humor and personal takes. The panel consistently balances practical advice with broader marketing theory, maintaining a warm and candid approach as they dissect both the triumphs and disasters of retail branding.

This episode is indispensable for retail marketers and brand strategists aiming to understand the nuances of rebranding—what works, what backfires, and why narrative, audience research, and authenticity matter more than ever.