Behind the Numbers: Reimagining Retail Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Reimagining Retail: Malls — Why People Visit (or Skip), IKEA & Walmart's Big Moves, and What the Modern Mall Will Look Like
Release Date: March 12, 2025
Host: Sara Lebo
Guests: Rachel Wolf, Emmy Lederman
Podcast: Behind the Numbers by EMARKETER

Introduction

In the March 12, 2025 episode of Reimagining Retail, host Sara Lebo delves into the evolving landscape of modern malls. Joining her are seasoned EMARKETER analysts Rachel Wolf and Emmy Lederman, who explore the shifting dynamics of retail spaces, the struggles and successes of mall-based stores, and the innovative strategies companies like IKEA and Walmart are employing to reinvent the shopping experience.

The State of Mall Retail

Sara Lebo opens the discussion by highlighting the recent closure of Forever 21 stores, a development that underscores the broader challenges faced by mall retailers. However, not all mall-based brands are faltering. Rachel Wolf attributes the resilience of stores like Abercrombie & Fitch and Gap to their strategic shifts away from traditional mall dependencies.

Rachel Wolf [01:22]: "The ones that are doing better, not relying on malls like Abercrombie you mentioned... have leaned off mall and also opened smaller stores, getting closer to where their customers are."

Emmy Lederman adds that Forever 21's lack of a viral product and its identity crisis have hindered its growth, especially compared to more adaptive brands.

Emmy Lederman [02:05]: "Forever 21 is just one of those stores that's always been, like, tacked on to a visit to the mall... but don't really have much besides just being like a placeholder in the mall."

Mall Foot Traffic and Consumer Behavior

The conversation shifts to the current performance of malls. Rachel Wolf notes a positive trend with indoor mall visits increasing by 5.5% in January, signaling a potential resurgence.

Rachel Wolf [03:38]: "Maybe that's a sign that shoppers are choosing to go to malls more often."

However, Emmy Lederman points out that the decline of anchor stores and the rise of online socializing have transformed malls from shopping destinations to social hubs.

Emmy Lederman [04:15]: "Just going to the mall as a social activity simply to shop... is redundant now with so much social shopping."

Rachel Wolf highlights that modern mall visits are less about shopping and more about socializing and experiences, with 60% of Gen Zers visiting malls primarily to socialize.

Rachel Wolf [05:11]: "A lot of people are going to malls, but they're not necessarily going there to shop... Those are becoming the hot new thing in malls these days."

The Shift to Experiential Retail

Sara Lebo and her guests discuss the rise of experiential elements in malls, such as VR experiences and unique dining options, which contribute to longer dwell times. Sara mentions that indoor malls saw an average visit duration of 78 minutes during the holiday season.

Sara Lebo [05:40]: "Higher dwell times to me, I think means that people might be spending more time not just in those anchor stores, but also in other places in the mall."

Restaurants have become significant attractions, with 17 of the most popular mall brands being eateries. Rachel Wolf observes a shift towards trendy and healthy dining options like Starbucks and bubble tea cafes.

Rachel Wolf [06:14]: "People are more interested to go to Starbucks or even like a bubble tea cafe. Like that's the hot new thing in malls these days."

Major Retailers Buying Malls

A pivotal part of the discussion centers on major retailers like Walmart and IKEA purchasing malls to transform them into mixed-use spaces. Rachel Wolf explains Walmart's strategy of integrating retail, entertainment, dining, residences, and office spaces to create a self-sustaining community hub.

Rachel Wolf [08:14]: "They're redeveloping it essentially into a mixed-use site... combining retail, entertainment, dining, but also having residences in there and hospitality concepts and office space."

IKEA, on the other hand, is using mall acquisitions to become anchor tenants while incorporating experiential elements like food halls and children's play areas.

Rachel Wolf [09:23]: "For Ikea, their strategy is they buy a mall and then they become the anchor tenant and then on top of that they layer in other experiential things like food hall or children's play area."

Emmy Lederman suggests that while this trend might not be widespread due to the capital required, it represents a creative way for brands to engage consumers in a post-COVID world where suburban living demands integrated lifestyle experiences.

The Future of Malls

As the episode wraps up, Sara solicits predictions for the future of malls. Both analysts foresee malls evolving into multifunctional spaces that prioritize health, wellness, and personalized experiences.

Rachel Wolf [14:12]: "The way that they've been able to really mash those experiences with retail to get people through the doors has been really effective."

Emmy Lederman emphasizes the importance of integrating healthier food options and leveraging direct-to-consumer brands to fulfill practical needs while enhancing the overall mall experience.

Emmy Lederman [14:44]: "Figuring out, like, what does consumer need in person look like now versus when malls were at their heyday and how can you create that experience?"

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Sara acknowledging the innovative approaches being taken to revitalize malls, from experiential activations to strategic real estate acquisitions by retail giants. The insights provided by Rachel Wolf and Emmy Lederman offer a comprehensive look into how malls are transforming to remain relevant in an increasingly digital and experience-driven marketplace.

Sara Lebo hints at future discussions and encourages listeners to stay tuned for upcoming episodes that continue to explore the intersection of retail and modern consumer behavior.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Wolf [01:22]: "The ones that are doing better... have leaned off mall and also opened smaller stores, getting closer to where their customers are."
• Emmy Lederman [02:05]: "Forever 21 is just one of those stores that's always been... a placeholder in the mall."
• Rachel Wolf [05:11]: "A lot of people are going to malls... [to] go to a restaurant or maybe a VR experience."
• Sara Lebo [05:40]: "Higher dwell times... people might be spending more time not just in those anchor stores, but also in other places in the mall."
• Rachel Wolf [08:14]: "They're redeveloping it essentially into a mixed-use site... combining retail, entertainment, dining, but also having residences in there and hospitality concepts and office space."
• Emmy Lederman [14:44]: "Figuring out... what does consumer need in person look like now versus when malls were at their heyday and how can you create that experience?"

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