Retail Hype vs. Reality: Fixing Discovery and the One Idea Worth Stealing | Reimagining Retail

Summary

Podcast Summary: Behind the Numbers: Retail Hype vs. Reality — Fixing Discovery and the One Idea Worth Stealing

Podcast: Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast
Episode Title: Retail Hype vs. Reality: Fixing Discovery and the One Idea Worth Stealing | Reimagining Retail
Host: Susie Deva Kenyon
Guests: Arielle Fager (Senior Analyst at EMARKETER), Sonal Gandhi (Chief Content Officer, The Lead)
Date: May 6, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives into the prevailing themes shaping the retail sector, exploring what's truly driving growth amidst the market noise. The panel critically discusses the reality behind hyped trends like loyalty programs, DTC channels, TikTok Shop, and agentic commerce, and offers actionable insights for brands trying to break through the clutter. A lively "overhyped or underrated" game initiates deep debate on the actual impact of these trends, leading into conversations about fixing discovery and the one retail idea worth "stealing" right now.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Overhyped or Underrated? Hot Topics in Retail (03:27–13:18)

Loyalty Programs

• Arielle Fager: Calls them “underrated” for their potential to benefit both brands and consumers, but emphasizes the importance of doing them right and fostering a mutually valuable relationship.

  “When it's done right, it's incredibly useful for both the brand side and the consumer side. And I think that is the best case scenario where you've got a win-win.” — Arielle (04:01)

• Sonal Gandhi: Disagrees, deems them "overrated" in their current experiential format, arguing consumers just want clear, simple rewards:

  “Offer customers a discount and keep it simple. Especially in this age where everything is about value, everything's expensive and people are trying to cut corners.” — Sonal (05:03)

Direct-to-Consumer (DTC) as Primary Channel

• Sonal: Strongly “overrated.” Consumers just want convenience; brands must be wherever the consumer is, not just on their own website.
• Arielle: Counters that DTC is “underrated” due to its value for first-party data, but agrees it can’t be the sole sales channel.

TikTok Shop

• Arielle: “Underrated,” as it rapidly builds momentum, attracting established brands and customers through entertaining, narrative-driven short videos.

  “We're seeing sales rise, momentum is really building. … I think it's just really important to be in right now.” — Arielle (08:16)

• Sonal: Fully agrees, credits the power of short-form storytelling for sales.

Agentic Commerce (AI-Driven Shopping Agents)

• Sonal: “Underrated” for product discovery, empowering new ways of searching, but “overhyped” when it comes to actual end-to-end transactions.

  “It is severely underrated because it's changing discovery everywhere you shop...But … I'm not really sure I want someone to buy stuff for me without me intervening.” — Sonal (09:16)

• Arielle: “Overhyped” in the context of true, autonomous purchase agents—no significant near-term adoption expected.

Celebrity Partnerships

• Arielle: “Overhyped”; monoculture is gone and celebrity tie-ins often spark as much controversy as enthusiasm. Instead, smaller influencers and creators are more impactful:

  “I think you're almost inviting just as much controversy sometimes as adoring fans...I'm much more into the kind of niche creators, smaller creators, influencers. I think those can really move the needle.” — Arielle (11:46)

• Sonal: Generally agrees, but sees high potential for authentic, niche celebrity partnerships, especially with less mainstream sports figures.

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2. Fixing Discovery: What's Broken and How to Improve (13:44–16:20)

Site Search is Broken

• Sonal: Brands consistently fail at site search, especially as consumers increasingly use natural language and complex queries.

  “Please don't make me go through your different, you know, ways of navigating your website and filter this and filter that. Come on now. Just make the site search work.” — Sonal (13:55)

• Recommends focusing on metadata and partnering with vendors who understand modern consumer search behavior.

Contextual, Personalized Experiences

• Arielle: Emphasizes the need for a seamless contextual experience from discovery to purchase.

  “It's not just about showing up. It's kind of about following through with context...match the contextual path to purchase of what's happening.” — Arielle (15:14)

• Calls out the disconnect when users land on irrelevant pages after clicking influencer content, and the need for greater personalization at every touchpoint—even though brands struggle with data and legacy systems.

  “Give me more than curation and personalization. Make it relevant to me in the context that you've already brought me into your fold.” — Susie (16:46)

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3. The One Idea Worth Stealing—and One to Skip (18:08–22:22)

Invest in the In-Store Experience

• Arielle: Urges brands to “copy” brands like Target and Lululemon that prioritize pleasant, helpful, and special in-store experiences through well-trained associates.

  “Just having people available to help you, having enough people in the store and really just making that shopping experience feel more special. I think that really goes a long way.” — Arielle (18:20)

• Advises skipping “ultra-fast delivery” (except for certain urgent categories), since most consumers do not value one-hour delivery for all products.

Avoid Over-Designing Stores

• Sonal: Warns against store “overdesign” that focuses on Instagrammable moments rather than real customer service—“invest in the people and not the overtly designed stuff.”
• The approach to “keep” is targeting niche audiences with authentic, data-driven personalization:

  “Don't try to be everything to everybody...Go and find those niche consumers that have this affinity for your brand for a reason...You have to find those niche communities within your consumer base.” — Sonal (21:02)

• Gives a powerful example of personalized beauty content that speaks directly to Indian skin tones, highlighting the emotional resonance and untapped scale of targeted messaging.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Loyalty Programs:
  “If done right, it doesn't provide value to both parties, but I think that there's a lot of room to improve and really hone in on that equal relationship between brand and consumer.” — Arielle (04:01)
• On DTC:
  “You gotta be everywhere the consumer is. The consumer doesn't care.” — Sonal (06:14)
• On Celebrity Partnerships:
  “There is no more monoculture. I think it's hard to find a celebrity that is so beloved to everyone.” — Arielle (11:40)
• On Broken Discovery:
  “You have the product and the customer and they can't meet each other.” — Sonal (14:11)
• On Personalization and Data:
  “Give me more than curation and personalization. Make it relevant to me in the context that you've already brought me into your fold.” — Susie (16:46)
• On In-Store Experience:
  “Basics. It's, yeah.” — Arielle (19:45)
• On Finding Your Tribe:
  “Find why, what divide they like your brand. ... Find those tribes and their affinities to your brand and really go deep in that, because ... you have to find those niche, you know, communities within your consumer base.” — Sonal (21:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Guest Intros: 00:00–01:19
• “Overhyped or Underrated” Game: 03:27–13:18
  • Loyalty Programs: 03:28–05:32
  • DTC Channels: 06:13–07:37
  • TikTok Shop: 07:51–09:05
  • Agentic Commerce: 09:05–11:14
  • Celebrity Partnerships: 11:19–13:18
• Fixing Discovery: 13:44–16:50
• Ideas to Copy/Skip: 18:08–22:22
• Closing Thoughts: 22:22–22:46

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Conclusion

This episode offers strong, practical advice:

• Rethink your loyalty and DTC strategies with realism.
• Fix on-site discovery, starting with search and context, not just curation.
• Double down on in-store basics and authentic, niche audience targeting—with help from better data and personalization.
• Skip the unnecessary hype: delivery speeds and glossy store design can be less valuable than true customer service and targeting.

Takeaway:
“In the end, find your niche tribes and be authentic; invest where it creates real value for the customer.”

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hi, everyone. Today is Wednesday, May 6th. Welcome to eMarketer's weekly retail show, Reimagining Retail. This is the show where we talk about how retail collides with every part of our lives. I'm your host, Susie Deva Kenyon. And on today's episode, we're breaking down some of the biggest themes shaping retail right now, from how people discover products to what actually is driving growth in an increasingly noisy market. Joining me today we have podcast regular senior analyst Arielle Fager.

[B]

Hey, happy to be here.

[A]

I'm so happy to have you. And we're in our new studio that's coming along quite nicely. And joining us virtually, we have Sonal Gandhi, chief content officer at the lead.

[C]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[A]

We're so excited to have you. And before we get into the episode, I thought maybe we could do a very quick, literally 30 seconds or less than speed intro. Tell us in a sentence. What do you do?

[C]

I program the Lead Summit, which is a 3,000 person conference for brands in New York City in May.

[A]

That's so cool. So one more quick question. What's your favorite book? Podcast TV show right now? Movie. Your pick one.

[C]

So I'm in the middle of programming the summit. I don't have a lot of time, but I did see this movie recently that's been like my movie of the year. I was a little late to it, but the Secret Agent, which was nominated heavily, didn't get the ultimate Oscar, but I would have liked it too. But that was a phenomenal movie.

[B]

I gotta check that out. I haven't. I haven't seen it.

[A]

But wait, who's in it? Because I'm so bad at movies.

[C]

It's a Brazilian movie based in the 70s. It's the story about this one person. I think I know it. Life is, you know, upside down because of the.

[A]

And do they have a child in the movie?

[C]

There is a child in the movie, but not a very big role for the child. No.

[A]

Gonna have to look.

[B]

Are you thinking about the one about the mom?

[A]

So is it. I mean, I'm thinking about the one where it's on Amazon Prime.

[C]

I don't know about that.

[A]

Oh, then I don't know what I'm thinking.

[C]

I saw it on the theater, but.

[A]

Oh, you saw it in theaters?

[C]

Yeah, it was excellent. Excellent movie.

[B]

That's good to know. I definitely have to check it out. I've heard. I've heard very good things about it.

[A]

Same. Not about the good things. I've never heard of it, but I will have to check it out myself. Okay, you guys, so I'm going to bring us back to this week. We're going to step away from the headlines to look at the themes that are shaping retail right now. Again, from how people are discovering things to understanding where brands should actually be investing their money. There is no shortage of big ideas between AI creators, community. But not all of them are having the same impact for retailers. So today, let's dig into what that really means, what's real, what's noise, and what actually matters for brands. So to kick us off, I thought we would do a different take on this idea of keep or cut. So is this theme overhyped or underrated? I'm going to throw out some themes and then we're going to do it in sequence. You're going to tell me if this is over or underrated, and then you're going to give me a quick why, and then we'll move on to the next theme.

[B]

Theme.

[A]

First one, one of my favorites. I hope that we're all aligned loyalty programs. Arielle, let's start with you.

[B]

So I'm cheating, as I always do on this podcast, and I'm gonna say it's appropriately rated, I think. No, I mean, I wanted you guys

[A]

to pick a side.

[B]

I. If I have to pick a side, I will say underrated. I think. I think that loyalty programs as a tool, and I'm kind of thinking a little more kind of in the weeds here, not just as a theme, but things we can learn from. I think that there's a lot to be learned from in terms of loyalty programs. When it's done right, it's incredibly useful for both the brand side and the consumer side. And I think that is the best case scenario where you've got a win, win. Obviously, if done, you know, not as well, it doesn't provide value to both parties, but I think that there's a lot of room to improve and really hone in on that equal relationship between brand and consumer. So I think that there's. There's more there.

[C]

I'm going to start with disagreeing with Ariel.

[B]

Oh, no, no, please.

[C]

I think they're overrated, especially in this new avatar of loyalty programs where it's all about experiences. You know, special tickets to our openings. And I think most people like to get something free for showing their loyalty. And when you get your 10 manicures and you get your 11th one free, that is why you keep going back. And it's true for the airlines, and it's always been true. I think offer customers a discount and keep it simple. Especially in this like, age where like everything is about value, everything's expensive and people are trying to like cut corners. I think keep it simple, don't overthink it and communicate like what the value proposition is. And that's it.

[A]

It's interesting because now that I think about the instructions, overhyped or underrated, it's kind of confusing, right? Because I think personally loyalty programs are critical and so you have to spend time on it. But to your point, Sonal, I do think that there is and I just hosted a table where there was this whole discussion around there are rewards programs and then there are loyalty programs and those are not quite the same. At the end of the day, they're definitely a data infrastructure. So you've got to make sure you have something in that scheme. Next up, guys. I obviously picked all my favorite topics, direct to consumer as a primary channel. Sonal.

[C]

Overrated. I think you got to be everywhere the consumer is. I know it's the most cliched thing in retail for the last 15 years, but the consumer doesn't care. Want your brand and they go to your website and it says five to seven days to ship and they can find it on Amazon, get it right now you've made that consumer happy and that's all really matters. So I think this whole idea of we're only on our side is just old.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

And once again, I'm gonna disagree. We've got some good, good stuff going here. Well, I was thinking about it a little bit differently. While I do agree with Sonal about, you know, you need to be everywhere, you really got to be where the customer is. I think DTC kind of in terms of like its value as like a first party data vehicle is really not to be understated. I think it's incredibly important for brands to have that data on their customers to be able to know them, know what they want, know what they're looking for. And I think, you know, having a strong DTC channel is a really, really good way to build up data. So that's why I think it's, it's underrated. But I, you know, agree that it can't be the only channel.

[A]

Interesting. I think everybody knows what I think about this, which is it cannot be the only channel and the wholesale is back and there's a reason why there are marketplaces. Next TikTok shop. Arielle.

[B]

I'm going underrated. Susie's giving me eye looks.

[A]

I'm sorry, I'm Just like so shocked by the answers.

[B]

This is great. I think that it's definitely gaining recognition. It's certainly not where it was maybe a year ago, but I think a lot of the beginning was brands were feeling, it was a little bit like, sorry, Temu, a little bit just overwhelmed with cheap goods or whatever. But we've seen some really established brands hopping onto TikTok shop. We're seeing sales rise, momentum is really building. So I think that like we said, you know, this is another channel. I think it's just really important to be in right now.

[C]

Yeah, I agree with that one. I'm not going to disagree. I think that people like to buy products that they see being romanced. You know, like you want someone to tell you that story. And those short form videos have just all taken over our minds right now. So if you're not, if you're not when people are scrolling and going through these videos, you're losing out on a huge opportunity.

[A]

Speaking of huge opportunity. Next up, agentic commerce. Sonal me.

[C]

All right. I think underrated. I know there's a lot of hype about it, but I think that if you think about product discovery, it is severely underrated because it's changing discovery everywhere you shop on Amazon, it's how you search on Google. Even if you never use agentic engine, you, you are, your, the way you talk to the computer has changed. So I think all of that is for product discovery. It's underrated for transactions. I am not really sure. I don't know if I want someone to buy, you know, stuff for me without me intervening. You remember the days when Amazon with this button together where if you run out of toilet paper and you press the button, the easy button. The easy button. I, I'd say this is probably, we're in the easy button era right now for you. Yeah. Maybe someday you will have, you know, Alexa buy stuff for you automatically or whatever, whoever, you know. But I, I'm not, I think that's overhyped.

[B]

Yeah. When I talk about agentic commerce, I'm going into it with the specific definition of true end to end. You know, an agent, you give an agent a prompt, it finds it, it buys it and that's it. It has your payment information. And in that definition I think it's overhyped. I don't think that at least for the next foreseeable future, we're going to see a meaningful adoption of true agentic commerce where agents are buying on behalf of consumers now. AI chatbots. Yeah, that's, that's Definitely, you know, as Sanaa said, it's. It's really changing how people search. But I think if we're talking true, you know, agent to agent commerce, then I think it's overhyped.

[A]

And the last one in this series, celebrity partnerships. Arielle.

[B]

I'm going over hyped, you know, and maybe I'm just still burnt from the Sydney Sweeney thing.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

You're just bringing back a flashback of our retail awards.

[B]

Well, it's on the top of my mind because I was listening to it this morning.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[B]

I think there is no more monoculture. I think it's hard to find a celebrity that is so beloved to everyone that it's just gonna make everything. You know, everyone's gonna want to buy your product. I think you are almost inviting just as much controversy sometimes as with, you know, you know, adoring fans with certain celebrities like Sydney Sweeney. So I think it's overhyped. I'm much more into the kind of niche creators, smaller creators, influencers. I think that's. Those can really move the needle in more meaningful ways.

[C]

Yeah, I agree with Ariel, but I think there are instances where it works, right? Like, where you're a relatively unknown brand that suddenly finds a big celebrity to, like, vouch for. That works. And especially in the case of, like, sports celebrities that are getting into, like, endorsement, like, niche sports, I'm not talking your typical MLB player, but, like, you know, the. You know, the sports that are suddenly taking off and they're celebrities, I think those are, like, women basketball, you know, players and things like that, I think that has some potential for some brands. But overall, it's. It's, I think, overhyped.

[A]

It's about authenticity at the end, right. If you can make sure that the tie in feels good and right then it works. But if there's, you know, that weird undertone or like, the Sweeney one I was thinking about, but for many reasons. Right. It could feel like there's fatigue from a consumer lens.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Agree.

[C]

Agree.

[A]

Interesting. Okay, so I'm switching gears to my next question, which is if you had to call it what's the one thing, just one, that most brands are getting wrong right now when it comes to discovery? And what is the first thing or one of the first things that's a little bit harder to have an absolute, but what's one of the first things that they can do to fix that wrong? Sonal.

[C]

All right. I think site search, it continues to be just not. Not working, especially now that people are using phrases and you know, everything you start is find me, tell me what is. You know, I don't, I don't see those working. Please don't make me go through your different, you know, ways of navigating your website and filter this and filter that. Come on now. Like just make the site search work. And it is such a lost opportunity if you have the product in the customer and they can't meet each other. So for me, that's what it needs to improve. And I think that's starting with the metadata and how you are surfacing those products and working with a good vendor to making sure that your products are coming up in the way consumers search.

[A]

I had not thought about that, but I always think about the filters and the search just in general. Even before AI and conversational, this was already marginally broken with the drop down. That doesn't always fit. Even if you think about our Macy's days where people don't search for denim, they search for jeans. Right? And so like you have to have the right words and the right things that are tagged. Now there's this complexity where your product page is both a merchandising sort of exercise plus a search exercise. It is fascinating. Arielle.

[B]

So I'm kind of going with like a little philosophy vibe. I don't know, love it. Bring it on, I think. And this is the, this is an emerging conversation as we've, you know, and I'll give a little preview of something I might be talking about with at my lead session. But, you know, it's not just about showing up. It's kind of about like following through with context. And I'm kind of still trying to figure out how I'm talking about this. I saw someone recently at an event who talked about, well, if you are sending a consumer from an influencer video, the product page that you're sending them to should really match with the attributes of that video. What were they talking about? What were the product attributes? And I thought that was such a really good insight to match the, the contextual path to purchase of what's happening. Where did this customer start and how are you following through with that to get them to purchase? I don't know how to fix it. And I'm sorry to say that.

[C]

Ariel, are you asking for too much? I think most of the time you, you click on an ad for a product and they land you somewhere that is not even the product. You know, that's like, we're like, I'm so behind.

[B]

I'm pie in the skying. I'm definitely idealizing a bit, but I like to think big. So it would be really cool if we could figure out how are we being more tailored and personalized across the

[A]

journey and for whoever's listening to fix this problem. I also don't understand why I still get ads on. Yes, I play video games on my phone. Like those casual ones. Right. I get ads for things I've already bought. Bought, which I understand that the ad placer doesn't always the like third party placer doesn't always get my data of what I've purchased. There's gotta be an easy fix to understand where I've converted already versus not. Which at the end of the day is similar to what you're saying. You're saying, Arielle, give me more than curation and personalization. Make it relevant to me in the context that you've already brought me into your fold. I think it's a data plan. I guess it's literally legacy systems and new systems not talking to each other. And then also I was at a event where I was talking about returns and the person was telling me that they are trying to figure that out as well because it's two different teams that are taking care of it. So again, if something keeps getting returned, there's a chance something's wrong with the product and the product people don't know about it. And like how do you get people talking to each other? Yeah, it's a tough one. I have another tough one. Based on what you guys are seeing today and all the things that you're doing, what's happening, what's one idea retailers should be copying right now and what's one thing that they should be skipping, Arielle?

[B]

So one thing I think they should be copying is investing in the in store experience we've seen. I know Target is kind of one of the bigger retailers out there that is like very publicly making a reinvestment in their stores and their store associates. And one of my colleagues actually just, just anecdotally said she went to Lululemon, she was in the, in the, the fitting room and she needed a different size and they were right there to go and help her and bring her another size. And it's just that simple, you know, just having people available to help you, having enough people in the store and really just like making that shopping experience feel more special. I think that really goes a long way in terms of skipping, I think ultra fast delivery. I don't think that the majority of people, I mean, yes, there's, there's Certainly some occasions in some categories that will benefit from, you know, ultra fast, you know, delivery. But for the most part, you know, do I need that shirt in an hour? No, you know, like, I just think it's, it's not necessarily something that's needed or wanted. And so I think that that investment could be used elsewhere, like for the store.

[A]

I love that because you're not even talking about extra activations. You're just saying make the store look clean. Make sure that there are enough people that help me. I happen to know Lululemon well. They put your name on a little chalkboard. It's like a whole make me feel special vibe that you're saying we should go back to basics.

[B]

Basics. It's. Yeah.

[A]

Sonal, what about you?

[C]

Yeah, so I'm gonna reverse it because I have a store comment about Skipp. So I like the idea of going back to basics. Have the products, have the people treat you nicely when you go in as a customer. Keep it clean and simple. I think there are some brands, they're just over and over design it. I think that just spend too much. Like, you know, this reminds you of the subways of New York City or the team stores. You know, I think that's, that's just an Instagram moment that you can skip. I think it's good to get the hype going that you have a new store out. But I think that just, I mean, there are so many things written about these nicely designed store, but sometimes you go in there and there's no one to help you. And they're really just stressed because all these customers are coming in, they can't deal. I think that's a negative experience. And so people invest in the people and not the overtly designed stuff. And I think the one that I would like to, to keep is what I hear a lot in our conversations with a lot of the executives that, that I talked to when I program the summit. It's, it's like, don't try to be everything to everybody. Really try to. Now go and find those niche consumers that have this affinity for your brand for a reason. Find why, what divide they like your brand. And then really try to, to try to find those tribes and find and then message to them. Example, like I'm scrolling at night and you know, you watch these videos and they're always like five things you need to have in your makeup drawer to look like a no makeup look, whatever. But then this video comes up and says 5 Charlotte Tilbury lipstick colors that are great for Indian skin. I was like, oh, this speaks to me. I love this brand. And they're talking to my skin color now. That's not niche, because as a half a billion Indian women in the world, but there's only so many in the US So I felt like they were talking to me. And so I think that, like, they find those tribes and their affinities to your brand and really go deep in that, because you can. Technology data allows you to understand the customer much better than you did. And you have to personalize, but you have to find those niche, you know, communities within your consumer base. That's, I think, is something to copy.

[A]

I think that's a great place to leave it. Find your niche tribes. Whether they're niche or not, it doesn't matter. Just find your people and be authentic and find the right partners so that you can showcase your product. Some of the most basic retail principles.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Critical. Yes. Thank you so much for joining us and all.

[C]

Yeah, thank you. This was so much fun.

[A]

Thanks, Ariel.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And thank you to our listeners and to our team that edits the podcast. Please leave a rating or review and remember to subscribe. I'll see you for more reimagining retail next Wednesday. And on Friday, join Marcus for another episode of behind the Numbers.