Standing Out in the Men's Grooming Market with Every Man Jack | Reimagining Retail

Summary

Podcast Summary: Behind the Numbers: Standing Out in the Men's Grooming Market with Every Man Jack | Reimagining Retail

Date Released: July 9, 2025

Introduction and Guests

In the July 9th episode of EMARKETER’s "Behind the Numbers" podcast, hosted by Sara Lebo, the focus shifts to the dynamic men's grooming market. Sara welcomes regular analysts Sky Canavez and Zach Stambor, along with special guest Nick Hasselberg, Vice President of Performance Marketing and E-commerce at Every Man Jack. This episode delves into how Every Man Jack navigates the competitive landscape of men's personal care, balancing brand and performance marketing, and leveraging e-commerce strategies to drive growth.

Overview of Every Man Jack

Nick Hasselberg provides an insightful introduction to Every Man Jack, highlighting its 17-year history as one of the original clean men's personal care brands. The brand offers a wide range of products, including hair care, body wash, and bar soap, with a particular emphasis on beard care—the largest in the country. Every Man Jack prides itself on using naturally derived ingredients and outdoor-inspired scents like sandalwood, cedarwood, and sea salt, all while maintaining an affordable price point. The brand’s extensive distribution network spans mass retailers such as Walmart and Target, grocery stores, clubs, drugstores, and a robust digital presence through direct-to-consumer (DTC) channels and Amazon.

Balancing Performance and Brand Marketing

A central discussion revolves around the strategic balance between brand marketing and performance marketing. Nick explains, “It really depends on the time of the year that you're asking me. If you're asking me at the beginning of the year, it's probably what we refer to as brand marketing. If you're asking me in the back half of the year, it's probably a little bit more performance marketing” (02:45). This seasonal approach aligns with Every Man Jack’s objectives, ramping up brand awareness early in the year to prepare for the high-demand holiday season. Nick emphasizes the importance of adapting strategies based on market conditions and consumer behavior, ensuring that brand investments translate into performance outcomes when it matters most.

Trends in Men's Personal Care

The conversation highlights several key trends propelling the men's personal care market forward. Nick notes that men are increasingly viewing grooming as essential, influenced by broader trends like the rise of clean products, the impact of COVID-19 on personal health awareness, and the proliferation of e-commerce. He states, “Men are increasingly interested in better for you offerings… each of one of them sort of interacts with a broader trend you have” (07:36). These factors contribute to the category outpacing general personal care, as men take more control over their grooming routines, bolstered by accessible information and purchasing options online.

Comparing Men's and Women's Personal Care Marketing

Zach Stambor elaborates on the similarities and differences between men's and women's personal care marketing. He points out that while both focus on wellness, ingredient transparency, and cleanliness, men's personal care is still emerging with significant white space for education and simplicity. “Men are just like very different than women both in terms of the category is newer and so there's a lot of education that needs to happen… in the message that the brand is trying to get across” (10:07). Nick adds that men's personal care shoppers are less tribal and less influenced by viral trends compared to their female counterparts, necessitating different marketing approaches.

Crossover in Product Usage Between Genders

Addressing the crossover between male and female consumers, Nick acknowledges that while Every Man Jack primarily targets men, women also purchase their products. “We know from multiple sources that women buy our products and they become the end user just because they like the scent, they like the application” (14:02). However, the brand focuses on men’s specific needs, particularly in categories like deodorant and body wash, where men prefer products designed for them. This nuanced understanding allows Every Man Jack to cater effectively to both male and female consumers without diluting their brand identity.

Standout Marketing Tactics and Brand Differentiation

Nick discusses how Every Man Jack differentiates itself in a crowded market by emphasizing emotional levers over mere functionality. He explains, “We've identified that we have an opportunity to drive greater distinction within our category by focusing on some more of those emotional levers as opposed to purely functionality” (16:07). The brand is shifting its image from outdoorsy to more active, leveraging insights from brand trackers that highlight their adventurous consumer base. This strategy includes launching new products that resonate with an active lifestyle and enhancing brand narratives to connect emotionally with consumers.

Measuring Marketing ROI Beyond Immediate Purchases

When addressing how to demonstrate ROI for brand marketing, Nick highlights the importance of engagement metrics such as share of voice and earned media value. For instance, collaborating with Barstool Sports during a March Madness campaign significantly boosted their share of voice within the competitive set. “Engagement type metrics are really important for providing the confidence that there are positive signs that are leading indicators that will ultimately convert into purchase” (18:34). This approach underscores the value of brand marketing initiatives that may not have immediate transactional outcomes but build long-term brand equity and consumer loyalty.

E-commerce Strategy: Marketplaces and Retail Media

E-commerce plays a pivotal role in Every Man Jack’s growth strategy. Nick emphasizes the vital contribution of marketplaces like Amazon and Walmart, which offer consistent returns and valuable consumer insights. He notes, “Marketplaces are vital to this brand's growth. They provide the most consistency in terms of return within marketing, which is essential to planning” (23:13). Additionally, leveraging retail media networks allows the brand to connect with first-party data, enhancing their ability to target and convert consumers effectively. Sky Canavez adds that using marketplaces as testing grounds provides deeper insights into consumer behavior, enabling more informed decisions across channels.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on the intertwined nature of brand and performance marketing, and the strategic utilization of e-commerce platforms to drive brand awareness and sales. Nick expresses excitement about future marketing initiatives, particularly in sports marketing and exploring new talent to tell compelling brand stories. The discussion underscores the importance of adaptability, consumer insights, and strategic investments in both brand and performance marketing to thrive in the evolving men's grooming market.

Notable Quotes

• Nick Hasselberg (02:45): “It really depends on the time of the year that you're asking me. If you're asking me at the beginning of the year, it's probably what we refer to as brand marketing. If you're asking me in the back half of the year, it's probably a little bit more performance marketing.”

• Nick Hasselberg (07:36): “Men are increasingly interested in better for you offerings… each of one of them sort of interacts with a broader trend you have.”

• Zach Stambor (10:07): “Men are just like very different than women both in terms of the category is newer and so there's a lot of education that needs to happen… in the message that the brand is trying to get across.”

• Nick Hasselberg (14:02): “We know from multiple sources that women buy our products and they become the end user just because they like the scent, they like the application.”

• Nick Hasselberg (16:07): “We've identified that we have an opportunity to drive greater distinction within our category by focusing on some more of those emotional levers as opposed to purely functionality.”

• Nick Hasselberg (18:34): “Engagement type metrics are really important for providing the confidence that there are positive signs that are leading indicators that will ultimately convert into purchase.”

• Nick Hasselberg (23:13): “Marketplaces are vital to this brand's growth. They provide the most consistency in terms of return within marketing, which is essential to planning.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of "Behind the Numbers" offers a comprehensive look into the strategic approaches Every Man Jack employs to stay ahead in the competitive men's grooming market. From balancing brand and performance marketing to leveraging e-commerce and retail media, Every Man Jack exemplifies a data-driven and adaptable brand strategy. Listeners gain valuable insights into the evolving landscape of men's personal care and the innovative tactics required to foster growth and brand loyalty.

Transcript

[Sara Lebo]

This episode is made possible by Quad. In marketing, everything must work seamlessly or efficiency, speed, and ROI all suffer. That's why Quad is obsessed with making sure your marketing machine runs smoothly with less friction and smarter integration. Better marketing is built on Quad. See how better gets done at www.quad.com buildbetter. Hello, listeners. Today is Wednesday, July 9th. Welcome to Reimagining Retail, an E marketer podcast made by Quad. This is the show where we talk about how retail collides with every part of our lives. I'm your host, Sara Lebo. Today's episode topic is balancing performance and brand marketing at a CPG company. Before we get into that, let's meet today's guests. Joining me for today's episode, we have two podcast regulars and a special guest. First up, it's one of our analysts, Sky Canavez. Hey, Sky.

[Sky Canavez]

Hey, Sarah. So glad to be joining you today.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah, great to have you in person. Also with us, one of our analysts, Zach Stambor. Hi, Zach.

[Zach Stambor]

Hey, Sarah. Happy to be here.

[Sara Lebo]

Happy to have you. And also with us, special guest, it's vice president of performance marketing and E commerce at men's care brand, Everyman Jack, Nick Hasselberg. Hey, Nick.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Hey, Sarah. Thanks for having me.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah. Welcome to the podcast. Okay, we already know beauty and personal care is an industry full of promise right now. And health and personal care will be one of Amazon's fastest growing categories between 2025 and 2027, according to our own eMarketer data. And men's care is one of the things propelling the industry forward. So, Nick, can you start us off by just giving us a rundown of what Everyman Jack is as a brand?

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, absolutely. Everyman Jack was started 17 years ago. We're one of the original clean men's personal care brands. We created a bunch of different products. Hair care, body wash, bar soap. We're actually the country's largest beard care brand. All of our products have naturally derived ingredients. They're outdoor inspired scents like sandalwood and cedarwood and sea salt. And we really try and offer these products at an affordable price point. So, yeah, we're distributed widely. We're within mass, Walmart and Target. We're in grocery, we're in club and drug. And we also have a digital presence through DTC and Amazon.

[Sara Lebo]

Gotcha. So I have a question about marketing specifically, since that's your role. I'm sure you've been asked this at dozens of conferences. I think I've seen you ask this at a conference before, but between performance and brand marketing, what is your priority?

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, great question. It really depends on the time of the year that you're asking me. If you're asking me at the beginning of the year, it's probably what we refer to as brand marketing. If you're asking me in the back half of the year, it's probably a little bit more performance marketing. And the reason for that we, we have a more relatively more seasonal business but really has to do with our objectives. And I'll take this year as an example. We had a very hard charge this year to drive retail velocities with, you know, much, much larger reach based marketing budget than we've had before. And I think we did a great job just looking at all the different analytics that we have access to in terms of driving quality awareness. It was the single largest jump we've had in awareness as evidenced through our brand trackers. So you would refer to that probably as more of a brand marketing outcome. And you know, we're looking at this information at this point in the year and realizing we've got an influx of new, new prospects that we need to now sort of mine and con into higher quality consumers that are more deeply considering the brand and that obviously are purchasing. So you know, the tactics then shift to wanting to be able to influence those aware consumers into actual customers of the brand and doing that through lower funnel techniques that might be, it might be rewards through, you know, through partners like ibotta or Neptune or it could just be focusing more on search. So that's really how I'm looking at it is it just depends on the time of the year.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah, I've actually never heard anyone lay it out for me exactly like that, that it's brand marketing at the front of the year. Performance at the back of the year is the idea that you familiarize people with the brand at the start of the year so that when holiday season comes around, they're ready to buy.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, it's a great question. Holiday is an important period for this brand. And what we've noticed in the past, we used to have reach reach marketing investments sort of kickstart around March, which is where we felt consumers have that holiday slump and you know, they need a few more months or weeks in order to pick up traction and regain normal shopping patterns. And we realized last year that our competitors were, were not standing pat. And really after holiday focusing intensely on generating awareness and it just became a reality of the category that we didn't have the luxury of waiting a couple of months. We really needed to make sure that all guns were blazing at the beginning of the year. So it does fit nicely into the sort of like calendar view of first half is reach and second half is performance. That's not really how we tend to draw it up. It's just a reality that the category is not waiting for us, so we need to take part in that as well. And then with all of that new awareness, it just becomes a great opportunity for us to focus our investments a little bit more on extracting value from aware consumers.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah. Sky and Zach, is this consistent with behavior you've seen from other like CPG or personal care brands?

[Sky Canavez]

I think nowadays with the holiday calendars especially being pulled forward more, it becomes more important to get brand awareness earlier into the year. We're seeing now with Prime Day and other July sales from major retailers coming up, that for some consumers it is a time to start thinking about holiday shopping, especially this year with concern over the impacts of tariffs and whether things are going to become more expensive later in the year. A significant share of consumers do start their shopping earlier in the year. And these sales events also create opportunities to make consumers aware of brands and start to target them or reach them in ways that can then pay off later in the year with the later sales events.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like soap personal care is interesting because you need it year round, but you are likely to discover it or maybe be more willing to add a little bit more to your cart around the holiday or around a sales event.

[Sky Canavez]

And if it's a special product, you might be looking at it as an item for gift giving or an affordable splurge. Especially now we're seeing consumers will be pulling back more on bigger ticket and discretionary purchases, but they're still going to look for ways to splurge when they can and to give, you know, the right gifts when the season comes.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah, I mean, we know that consumers are spending more on essentials. So that. That's a good question. It's like if, if we see this product like men's personal care as an essential or not, where, where does that kind of land for you, Nick?

[Nick Hasselberg]

Oh, it's absolutely essential.

[Sara Lebo]

And do consumers see it that way?

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, they see it as essential. And you're, you're, you're seeing what's happening in men's personal care is the same thing that's happened within FMCG in terms, in terms of this emergence of clean, whether it is medicine or food or some other application within consumables. But this is where the puck is going men are increasingly interested in better for you offerings. And there's, there's just a bunch of interesting dynamics that are propelling the men's category forward. And it all, you know, each of one of them sort of interacts with a broader trend you have. Covid and probably social media are two huge trends that influence sort of men becoming more involved within their own grooming routine. Social media sort of providing that mirror back to consumers. You want to care a little bit more about how you look. Covid forcing us to think more about our own health and the decisions that we make every day. And probably another trend that's influenced that is just the rise of e commerce and digital and the ability to make decisions for myself, a disruption of the normal shopping pattern that probably our parents had where, you know, one person, likely, likely a mom is going to go to Target at Walmart and pick out something for a men. There's not a lot of male consumer choice within that decision making. And now male consumers, increasingly younger but also old as well, can go onto Amazon, go on a D2C sites and really gain that education for themselves. So all of these trends sort of are dovetailing and propelling the men's category and it's the reason why it's outpacing personal care at large.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah, we, we know for something that Zach's team wrote recently that nearly 7 in 10 Gen Z men ages 18 to 27 use facial skin care. That's according to a Mintel survey from last year. And not just drugstore products, 42% buy premium moisturizers over mass market brands. So Zach, I'll go to you first with this one. How is the men's care and beauty playbook the same or different from the women's personal care one?

[Zach Stambor]

That's a good question. So I think on the one hand it's the same because it's all about wellness. It's all about ingredient transparency and cleanliness. But then on the other hand, men are just like very different than women both in terms of.

[Sara Lebo]

I like your 90s standup routine here.

[Zach Stambor]

Well, to start, like there's the category is newer and so there's, there's ample white space. There's a lot of education that needs to happen. There's the men's desire for just like simplicity, both like in the routine of what it is that the product offers or does, but also just in the message that the brand is trying to get across. So I think it's like it's, it's both same and different to state the obvious.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a real opportunity, especially right now. According to the Harris poll in the Guardian, women are more likely to believe the economy and inflation are worsening compared to men. That means that men may be more willing to buy more premium products than women, whether or not that reflects the reality of the economy, which is an opportunity in that category.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, I, I think about this a lot and I think if you think about the beauty category versus men's personal care, what Zach is saying is, is true. Men's personal care as we know it today is a bit newer, but these shoppers are very different. Beauty shoppers are so much further along the adoption curve.

[Sara Lebo]

They know what they're looking for, they're.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Familiar with the names and products, they know what those ingredients are on the back of the bottle. They've got experience, they've got intelligence around that. Men still need to be educated. And really, for men, it tends to be a bit more outcome focused. I can tell you that it has aloe vera, I can tell you that it's got jojoba beads. But because there's a lack of education, that can tend to fall very flat. So our job in marketing for Everyman Jack is to make sure we're connecting to the outcome always and striving for more simplicity. I think the other, the other big difference I see is that beauty shoppers tend to be more tribal, more tribal and more viral reaction to things that are happening in the influencer space than I've seen exhibited by men in this space. And it's just a, it's a, it doesn't mean that influencers are not a marketing vehicle for men, they are. It just means that maybe looking at it from like an attribution perspective, we tend to see first click attribution on influencer type media. It is not as high performing as what you would see in the beauty space.

[Sky Canavez]

And I think that's because there are a lot of differences in the social and cultural conversation around beauty and men's personal care, where there's so much content on women's beauty. Like, we have a lot going back from magazines and all of the education that I learned about beauty from magazines, print magazines back in those days. Nowadays women learn from TikTok and YouTube and Instagram and there's so much content where beauty is really talked about for its own sake. It's a rich trove of content for itself. And I think for men's personal care and grooming, there's more need for education. But in the functional Sense in the outcome based sense, as you mentioned, where maybe it's tied to specific needs. Needs as opposed to just for fun and entertainment.

[Sara Lebo]

I'm actually curious about the crossover here. Obviously, we're talking about a pretty heteronormative divide of men's and women's products here. We know that a lot of men, especially men, who are interested in skincare, buy women's products. We know that a lot of women have historically bought men's products like Axe and Old Spice. We've seen women buy these products as far back as when I started using beauty products and personal care products. Do you see that crossover, Nick? Do you see that have women consumers?

[Nick Hasselberg]

We do. It's not, it's not a strategic focus, but we know from multiple sources that women buy our products. We. And they become the end user just because they like the scent, they like the application. And yeah, you do see a lot of crossover. Like for instance, men's focused skin care is a very small category.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah.

[Nick Hasselberg]

You know, no one, no one has really cracked it when men are. And skincare is huge for men. But it's more unisex offerings or genderless offerings like Cerave and Cetaphil. And I think it's because lifestyle type brands such as ours, it's a big challenge sometimes to cross into different categories. You know, one of our biggest equities is scent. Scent does not matter within the realm of skincare. So, yeah, you definitely see consumers sort of, you know, not really stay within these heteronormative lanes and experimenting with different products.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah, that has to be so complicated for men's care too. Because I think that if you are a brand focused on women and men are using it, then that's just an expansion. But I think that a lot of men may already be hesitant to embrace personal care. And if they see that brand as like, important, overly feminine, then it may also be difficult. So definitely a line to walk.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yes. And we know that men are. From survey data, we know that men are interested in products specifically designed for men. However, that has an asterisk. When it comes to things like body wash and deodorant, men are searching for products designed for men. When it comes to things like skin care, probably not as much.

[Sara Lebo]

That's interesting. You talked about scent being an equity for you. I want to talk about what tactics Everyman Jack uses to stand out in what is becoming a crowded industry. What beyond scent are your sort of standout marketing tactics or brand features?

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, it's a great question. When we started this brand 17 years ago, we were sort of the first cleans men's personal care brand. There wasn't a legacy player that was focused on naturally garage ingredients and the scents tended to be things that were a bit more, a bit more obvious and really not focused on, you know, where things are today. There's been massive scent proliferation within the category. Some that seem a bit more functional, some that are just pure fantasy, you.

[Sara Lebo]

Know, fantasy meaning like it's like not like sandalwood, it's like beach dreams, it's.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Like swagger, it's like, does anyone really know what that smells like? You know, it's pure fantasy. But it's kind of like what Yankee Candle has been doing for a long time. Right. There's just like a lot of different types of scents that are available. So I think the focus for us is, is really we've identified that we have an opportunity to drive greater distinction within our category by focusing on some more of those emotional levers as opposed to purely functionality. And we've got a great innovation pipeline with new products. But what we're really excited about is brand differentiation and really grabbing hold of this concept of adventure. And it was a nugget that came to us from our brand tracker and other sort of insights work that we are seen by consumers as relatively more adventurous and that our consumers see themselves as more adventurous. So we wanted to be able to shift this brand from a one that was more outdoorsy or outdoor inspired to one that was a bit more active. And this is, this is something that we're, we're drawing up the plans for, for next year. So that's, that's one of the ways in which we're thinking about setting ourselves apart.

[Sara Lebo]

And as you're looking at like marketing in general, I want to jump back to this like brand versus performance focus to something that we didn't talk about there, which is that I know as you're focusing on brand marketing you need to demonstra return on investment to your finance teams. We all do. What key performance indicators are you looking at to prove value of marketing that isn't immediately tied to a purchase that doesn't have that last click data attached to it?

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, I mean there's, there's different types of buckets, like engagement type metrics are really important for providing the confidence that, you know, there are positive signs that are leading indicators that will ultimately convert into purchase. And one of those is, you know, of voice and earn media value. Those are two metrics that we track. We worked with Barstool Sports for A March Madness takeover earlier this year, and it just, it drove crazy gains in share of voice amongst the competitive set. And, and that was something that we really celebrated internally because we were dominating a narrative within our space.

[Sara Lebo]

Is that considered creator or influencer marketing? Or is it something different since it's like a full business?

[Nick Hasselberg]

Is. Is barstool considered influencers?

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah. Do you guys consider that like creator marketing? Essentially?

[Nick Hasselberg]

I think it is. Like, functionally, you're. You're dealing with a bunch of individuals that produce content. So we really look at it as, as, as an influencer type relationship, but they have, they have other capabilities that kind of is like more of an. And it's like a hybrid type media channel in that, you know, I can run display banners throughout barstool's ecosystem. I can't really do that with an influencer, so. But yeah, we do tend to. Tend to view it as an influencer, though.

[Sara Lebo]

Zach, you're a big March Madness guy. Are these crossing your ecosystem? You may be less of a big barstool guy.

[Zach Stambor]

I am not a barstool guy. But yeah, I think it's a great space to play in because that's the audience. It's younger consumers who are hyper attuned to these sorts of moments. And so it just makes perfect sense. And I imagine there's a lot of other opportunities similar to that that you can play in.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, we've really gravitated towards this idea of leveraging creators for next year, and particularly within sports. It's something we know from Numerator, that our consumer, who is very much a millennial man, hugely into sports. So how can we take advantage of that inside and make sure we show up at the right time. The other thing about sports is it's very expensive. So it's needing to balance being where that consumer is and what they're interested in and not paying incredible premiums, you know, and trying to duke it out with Geico and Allstate all the time.

[Sara Lebo]

Okay, maybe a weird question here, but when I hear people say sports are expensive, often I say, well, the up and coming area there is women's sports. Is that an area that you're exploring because it has a lot of male viewers, or is it not an area that you're tapping into just yet?

[Nick Hasselberg]

We've definitely taken notice of it, and I think there are opportunities for us to test into it with our media plans, but it's not, let's say, a strategic pillar of the media plan. But it's really awesome to see. And definitely male consumers are interested of a growing interest within women's sports as well. So I think, you know, I think you just gave me an idea for where to double down next week.

[Sara Lebo]

Well, yeah, I think that while it is maybe a little bit odd to market a men's care product in women's sports, obviously we see women's products marketed in men's sports all the time and I think that a lot of brands overlook just how many men watch women's sports. I mean, men tend to watch sports and women's sports are becoming more and more accessible. So men are watching women's sports.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah, we're really excited about we're going to be investing in some very recognizable talent next year.

[Sara Lebo]

I'm excited to learn those names.

[Nick Hasselberg]

So yeah, we're just really excited to tell some different types of stories and that's what we're really trying to execute. Well, next year is you think about sports marketing and you know, your classic endorsement. It doesn't seem very special. So how can you become part of the conversation and work with that talent and tell stories that are disruptive and make a consumer think differently about you?

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah. The last thing I want to touch on in this conversation is just our bread and butter. Retail at large. What is the role of like marketplaces in Everyman Jack's e commerce strategy? How do you look at your retail.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Actual selling M yeah, marketplaces are vital to this brand's growth. First and foremost. They provide the most consistency in terms of return within marketing, which is essential to planning. And when different things happen throughout the year, when your plans go awry, it's nice to have that consistency offered by the marketplaces. The second thing is just giving us an ability to test and learn. Certainly with Amazon and we're doing that now, we've got a new deodorant that we've launched and we put it within Amazon and it's gaining incredible traction. And we're able to figure out how are consumers responding to the creative, how are they responding to these reviews, what types of consumers are transacting and how are those consumers different from someone who might purchase my. My base deodorant and then we can take all these insights and package them and provide proof of concept to other customers in wholesale that would be interested in the offering. The other thing I would say is just retail media networks as well have become obviously very important to the marketing mix. And having access to that 1p data and being able to connect the dots. It's a relatively newer technology is. It's definitely been something that we've been investing in.

[Sky Canavez]

That's really interesting to hear because we know that marketplaces are taking a greater share of E commerce in the US they keep growing. But typically a lot of brands, especially ones with a more direct to consumer angle, the CPG brands, they tend to focus on presenting just their hero products or their top products on a marketplace, their tried and tested products, the ones that consumers are most likely to be looking for and saving their broader assortment for their own channels or for other channels. So to take the marketplace and use it as a, as a testing ground and be able to glean more data from that and insights into the consumer behavior around it is a really interesting strategy.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah, it's always noteworthy to me to hear about retail media as an audience expansion strategy. I was looking at some Deloitte data earlier today that was talking about the importance of expanding your audience because right now brands can't necessarily rate their prices. And I would imagine that's particularly true for a CPG or D2C brand. So you need to grab that greater share of market with more consumers. And I think that's a place where retail media can help you expand. And I also think that like personal care, a lot of times is seen as a largely in store purchase. That's true. 47% of people buy only in store. But 37% of people buy personal care and beauty products both in store and online according to Think now research. So it's definitely a place where you can reach those consumers.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Yeah. And there's also a very high level of interaction between marketing tactics that are meant to affect a marketplace, an online marketplace versus in store behavior. So it's just. I'll give you an example. One of our greatest sources of awareness amongst all consumers is seeing us on Amazon or seeing [e-mail] and people don't tend to think about that. It's like, no, no, no. You must create awareness through a top of funnel ad campaign. It's not always true.

[Sara Lebo]

I think that brings us full circle to our performance marketing brand marketing question. Because even when you're investing in performance marketing in the form of search ads on retail media networks, you're still getting that brand marketing out of it by creating that awareness on Amazon and on Walmart.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Exactly. It was several years back just noticing the difference. I wanted to take a look at customers that we had acquired by channel and understanding where they migrated. And it was fascinating because you saw that a customer who first discovered us and purchased us within mass stays in mass and they don't migrate out of it. But consumers that we first acquired through DTC or through Amazon, many will eventually migrate to mass. So it just really opened my eyes to, you know, Amazon is not something that this self contained platform in which consumers will always be there. It's actually an awareness vehicle and increasingly so with all the top of funnel capabilities that that it now offers marketers like us.

[Sara Lebo]

Okay, well that is all we have time for today. Nick, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode today.

[Nick Hasselberg]

Thank you for having me. It was great conversation.

[Sara Lebo]

Yeah, thank you for being here, Zach.

[Zach Stambor]

Yeah, it was great.

[Sara Lebo]

And thank you as always. Sky.

[Sky Canavez]

Thanks again, Sarah.

[Sara Lebo]

Thank you to our listeners and to our team that edits the podcast, delivering episodes with great personal care. Please leave a comment or review and remember to subscribe to the behind the Numbers podcast. We'll be back Wednesday with another episode of Revolution Reimagining Retail. And on Friday, join Marcus for another episode of behind the Numbers, an emarketer podcast made possible by Quad.